Kootenay Elk Hunt - "Fair Chase" ??

[Iron Glove]

With all the discussions of ethics re guides, lion hunters and such, want to know what people think of this. I am a pretty "ethical" guy, some of my hunter pals might say "anal" and I try to be not only legal but ethical. Often those two words are not interchangeable.
So, Wife's cousin has lived in the Kootenays all his life, years ago bought a small "farm" on large acreage and has lived there since. He's now retired there and we visited him a few years back. While sitting on his deck he pointed 2-300 metres away and said that every year a small "herd" of elk visit his property. They munch on his crops, his dog just looks at them without interest. He laughed and said I should come up one Fall and sit on his deck and shoot one.
Now he, and his Son ( in his early 20's ) have both PAL'd and CORE'd up and have asked if I would be interested in a Fall Elk hunt. Although his late Dad hunted extensively years ago in the Kootenays, neither he nor his Son have ever hunted.
I've checked all the regs re MU's, openings, dates, 6 point bulls, etc. and AFAIK it's all legal other than shooting from his deck.
My concern is the ethical aspect about "fair chase" where a herd of elk are almost domesticated, or in the least habituated to his property leaving the "hunt" to something more akin to shooting fish in a fish bowl. Whilst nothing's guaranteed, other than being a really bad shot, the odds of harvesting a bull would be very high.
To add, his son has a few disabilities that result in some difficulties in handling a rifle. I did take him out back of our Tulameen place and we tried out a number of different rifles and actions and found that lever action is by far the best. This might well be the best, maybe the only chance for him to have a decent, reasonable chance of success.
So, open to opinions, I'm not trying to moralize or anything, just curious as to what everyone thinks.

[Ricky Bobby]

Do it. I have taken advantage of these hunts, always enjoyable, very different from the standard 10-12 days of early mornings late nights but still hunting. Remember these are still wild elk, they aren't high fenced, aren't drugged. This is all fair chase, its just you've got them where they are comfortable.

3 years ago it took me weeks to kill a buck from a 'gimmie' stand. Every day a big buck came through the farm, totally calm, walked right by the farmer, ate the wife's garden, so I started hunting him, he disappeared, I killed him several km away completely randomly.

[Ferenc]

Hey you have permission to hunt on some private property with friends.. As for the domesticated part.. The elk are far from it.. They have no pressure..I see this hunt no different than hunting the fields of the Northern Peace river country when at times it can be hard to get the said permission to hunt.. Sounds like a enjoyable hunt away from the crowds with some new hunters... Do it !

[Timbow]

Can you walk up to the herd and hand feed them? If they run....well you should have no problem shooting one.

The best tasting mulie I ever ate was shot in my back yard. He made the mistake of eating the shrubs less than 2 yards from my archery target. Now I wish I had an LEH for a bull moose for the MU I live in. I'm sure he would be the best tasting moose I would have ate. One day.

[sawmill]

I prefer not to chase them. Makes the steaks tough. Enjoy the harvest.

[Dannybuoy]

Hey you have permission to hunt on some private property with friends.. As for the domesticated part.. The elk are far from it.. They have no pressure..I see this hunt no different than hunting the fields of the Northern Peace river country when at times it can be hard to get the said permission to hunt.. Sounds like a enjoyable hunt away from the crowds with some new hunters... Do it !
X2 . There are lots of "book" Mulies and Whitetails taken in this way as well . Go for it if you like Elk meat ! :smile:

[wideopenthrottle]

sounds like those "tame" elk are verging on being a problem to your buddy..best to take 1 or 2 to help shoo them off...

[albravo2]

I don't think there is anything unethical about shooting a problem animal that also happens to be delicious and in season. The only downside I see is introducing a new hunter to the sport with a gimme. As you know, hunting isn't about killing, its about travelling, camping, searching, stalking and shooting and MAYBE kiling. I know people that have spent a long time hunting, learning the craft and falling in love with the experience, before they fired their first shot.

All that said, if you don't want to go, send them my number. My wife has been on my case for a freezer full of elk for three years now.

[SPEYMAN]

Get er done!!!

[Cyrus]

there would be no hunting shows on wild tv if hunting on private land was not allowed...except for some of the moosr and sheep stuff it all takes place on private land...

[Bugle M In]

X2 . There are lots of "book" Mulies and Whitetails taken in this way as well . Go for it if you like Elk meat ! :smile:

Totally agree with this.
There are some in the books from Lumby area that were taken exactly this way...on private land.
Have fun, since it is all legal!.

[Ride Red]

I've done a few of these trips over the years too. Sounds like shooting fish in a barrel until you walk out with your rifle and they all flock off. Nail one if you can and enjoy.

PS; If you can't bring yourself around for this hunt, let me know, I'd be glad to fill your spot.

[yote]

Do it! So much fun and you'll be hard pressed to see more animals anywhere else. When the plan works it goes like this. Shoot your animal, clean and skin at the ranch then take it to Rick's Meats to hang and get processed then Smittys for breakfast/lunch. Show up at the end of the trip at Rick's with the fish coolers and pack your frozen cut and wrapped meat to take home. The country is absolutely beautiful. It's a nice change.

[Sharpish]

Fire at will baby! I would harvest a beauty 6 point elk or two between you, get them to the butcher/taxidermist and then go hiking after a sheep, knowing with confidence your freezer is full for a year or two ... :-D Then you can enjoy the hiking, glassing, scouting, camping aspect and not be stressed out about getting skunked.

It's not a canned hunt. They are free ranging wild animals. You will probably be helping them out in the long run by putting a fear of man back into them.

[aggiehunter]

you are always using some attractant or some intelligence when hunting regardless of where you are...hunt away....

[HarryToolips]

Fire at will baby! I would harvest a beauty 6 point elk or two between you, get them to the butcher/taxidermist and then go hiking after a sheep, knowing with confidence your freezer is full for a year or two ... :-D Then you can enjoy the hiking, glassing, scouting, camping aspect and not be stressed out about getting skunked.

It's not a canned hunt. They are free ranging wild animals. You will probably be helping them out in the long run by putting a fear of man back into them.
exactly...once they have the hunting pressure the herd will adapt..

[Downwind]

I'm sure they're not fenced in so they still have to show up, which there is never a guarantee, even if they have been for several years. Nothing unethical there but if your conscience is still tugging at you feel free to pass on my info. I'd be more than happy to help them out! ;) Happy hunting

[BC_Viking]

I don't think there is anything unethical about shooting a problem animal that also happens to be delicious and in season. The only downside I see is introducing a new hunter to the sport with a gimme. As you know, hunting isn't about killing, its about travelling, camping, searching, stalking and shooting and MAYBE kiling. I know people that have spent a long time hunting, learning the craft and falling in love with the experience, before they fired their first shot.

All that said, if you don't want to go, send them my number. My wife has been on my case for a freezer full of elk for three years now.

If you need a hunting partner im in ! been dying to hunt Elk but never done it before , just dont want to go it alone .

[guest]

Go get EM ....... What a great opportunity for you ....... If you need company ........ Over HERE ! Lol

good luck to you !

[walks with deer]

so did op go??? did they show

[hunter1947]

I would not even hesitate on that offer go for it you can have prim elk meat in your freezer..

[Rieber]

If the thought doesn't sit well with you perhaps you could think about parking your truck 5km from your friends house. Pack all your gear there. Set up camp but don't use any of his facilities for convenience. Set up your ambush blind at the far end of his property where the animals are known not to enter. Make your stock, take the game when given the chance and then pack everything back out 5 km to where you parked your truck. If that makes you feel better about the hunt.

There is nothing wrong with participating in such a prime hunt on private land. Even with the odds in your favor, there is no guarantee that the hunt will play itself out like you think is should. The Elk still have to participate and those buggers seem to have a keen sense when anything is a little off. Personally, I would be all in because it's sure nice to put the meat in the freezer without the heavy lifting associated with harvesting these beasts. Plus the money and time you'll save can go into a hunt that you really want. These opportunities don't present themselves enough in life so it's nice not to miss the gifts when they come about.

[dapesche]

I promise that if you are not able to get it done after a couple encounters they will be far from domesticated :)

[Ron.C]

Nothing like the satisfaction of working hard and taking a nice animal in the backcountry. Tons of work but worth every bit.

That said, it's sure nice to get an easy one when the opportunity presents itself. Nothing wrong with dropping one of these elk.

[Rieber]

Hey, if you see a saddle and stir-ups don't shoot - that one might be domesticated.

[Iron Glove]

so did op go??? did they show

Nah, it never happened.
The Elk remain happy. :)

[j270wsm]

Iron glove I understand your concern about the hunt.

Last yr I had a similar situation. Friend called and said no one was hunting his inlaws farm on opening day. With the bush closed down due to lack of rain I jumped on the opportunity. Opening morning we were sitting by an old barn 200ft above a 400acre hay field listening to a bull bugeling in the dark. As shooting light arrived the big bull stayed behind the only trees in the field and headed straight away from us. When he finally appeared he was 600yds away following 2 cows. We quickly turned our attention back to the rest of the herd which was at 400yds. My son and friend didn't feel comfortable shooting at 400yds.....2 shots later I had a nice spike bull lying beside the road along the edge of the hay field. 25min later the bull was gutted and hanging from the bail forks on the tractor, easiest hunt I have ever been on. After a few days I had a weird uncomfortable feeling about the " hunt "

In the end I discovered that I didn't enjoy it and have no interest in doing it again.

[canucks6]

Give it a chance. Make sure wind is good and don't blow them out. If the old cow gets uneasy about the area better luck next year.

[Jordan f.]

Fill the freezer with elk meat. Spend the rest of the season challenging yourself. Maybe look for your first sheep, big black tail.. maybe chase wolves.

[emerson]

Some of us don’t have the luxury of your choice. I took time off work and spent a week on a backpack moose/elk hunt living under a tarp. Got nothing. Spent $3K on quality meat instead. Your life sounds super tough, not.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Iron glove I understand your concern about the hunt.

Last yr I had a similar situation. Friend called and said no one was hunting his inlaws farm on opening day. With the bush closed down due to lack of rain I jumped on the opportunity. Opening morning we were sitting by an old barn 200ft above a 400acre hay field listening to a bull bugeling in the dark. As shooting light arrived the big bull stayed behind the only trees in the field and headed straight away from us. When he finally appeared he was 600yds away following 2 cows. We quickly turned our attention back to the rest of the herd which was at 400yds. My son and friend didn't feel comfortable shooting at 400yds.....2 shots later I had a nice spike bull lying beside the road along the edge of the hay field. 25min later the bull was gutted and hanging from the bail forks on the tractor, easiest hunt I have ever been on. After a few days I had a weird uncomfortable feeling about the " hunt "

In the end I discovered that I didn't enjoy it and have no interest in doing it again.

Because it was JUST KILLING thats why ! It was NOT really hunting to you BUT some will have no Problem with it . Its all up to the individual as long as its LEGAL its Good ! jmo RJ

[j270wsm]

When I was a kid all I wanted was to harvest a bigger bull than the one dad had hanging in the front entrance at the house. I lucked out and got my first bull when I was 19 and since then I've been lucky enough to get one almost every yr since then. Some are bigger than dads, some are smaller...... I've successfully helped my dad get his 4th bull and helped my 15yr old son get 4 elk( 3 bulls ). A lot of my bulls were nothing more than luck.......like they walked out in front of the truck kind of luck.

killing that elk off of the hay field is no different that having a bull walk out in from of me while driving down a fsr, but for some reason it left me with the feeling of disappointment.

Please dont take my story as anything other than MY experience. I just thought I'd share my experience because I understand Iron Gloves feelings towards hunting private land.

Yes RJ... legal is legal and I will not say anything bad about someone hunting legally.

[ratherbefishin]

Part of hunting is the need to control populations,and if that means culling excess animals by shooting,so be it...better that than culling by vehicle which is how the vast majority of urban deer/elk end up.At least this way you end up with the freezer full of good hormone free lean meat

[limit time]

Are you hunting (killing) for sport or meat ?