LEH West Kootenays ???..

[hunter1947]

I was told by a good source that they might put the West Kootenays back on LEH ??? parently this came from a biologist any one hear about this rumor :roll:..

[BgBlkDg]

No, but, I would not be surprised as the elk, seem pretty scarce and my cousin, aged 57, in Nelson and the most successful elk hunter I know, with a pile of HUGE racks in his shed, is also a private pilot. He told me last winter that he had just done a major flight all around Nelson and area and as far north as Glacier Park.....in the fresh snow, he saw NO ungulate tracks, but, wolf sign was everywhere....

He has two traplines and knows his spoor, so, I tend to accept his comments. Given, the f**king hippies all over the Kootenays, with their *expertise* on environmental issues (HA HA) and loudmouthed objection to realistic predator controls, (its the balance of nature, man) I am not very optimistic about West Kootenays elk hunting..........

Remember, *wolves only kill the old and sick, man, they are ICONIC*.....barf.

[LBM]

No, but, I would not be surprised as the elk, seem pretty scarce and my cousin, aged 57, in Nelson and the most successful elk hunter I know, with a pile of HUGE racks in his shed, is also a private pilot. He told me last winter that he had just done a major flight all around Nelson and area and as far north as Glacier Park.....in the fresh snow, he saw NO ungulate tracks, but, wolf sign was everywhere....

He has two traplines and knows his spoor, so, I tend to accept his comments. Given, the f**king hippies all over the Kootenays, with their *expertise* on environmental issues (HA HA) and loudmouthed objection to realistic predator controls, (its the balance of nature, man) I am not very optimistic about West Kootenays elk hunting..........

Remember, *wolves only kill the old and sick, man, they are ICONIC*.....barf.

How many wolves a year does your cousin catch on his 2 trap lines. How many racks makes a pile and are they all WK bulls and were they taken in the old LEH season or the newer open season.
Thanks

[hunter1947]

I agree that that the wolf population has exploded in the WK especially around the nelson area head lots of stories about how the wolf have devastated the mule deer population as for elk and WT deer in the nelson area..

[BgBlkDg]

I honestly don't know on the wolf numbers, I did not count the racks, but, there were about ten, at least and most were real hogs.

Most were shot around Nelson, don't know exact dates and wont say exactly where, obviously, but, he hunts all over BC as he owns a very successful contracting business and does large jobs throughout western Canada.

He is a fifth-generation Nelsonite, of the seven gens. of our extended family who have and do live there and so knows the area very well.

We were supposed to go predator hunting last winter, but, my commitments here made that impossible and he has limited time and a difficult schedule. I am hoping to be with him this coming season as I can no longer pack out an elk alone before it sours in the heat and we also hope to do some *Canis* culling later in this year and early in 2016.

[Liveforthehunt]

I'm bordering 8 and the wk and I grabbed my cams last night to check pics .... I got 2 different wolves first time for me on cam mid day

[hunter1947]

Fisher dude told me on face books that there is no truth to this WK going back on LEH ,,Pat can get good information and I believe him what he told me on face books ,,you know how rumors start I have had my share directed at me..

[aggiehunter]

ask your cousin if all he saw was wolf tracks what he thinks they are eating.....never talked to anyone that ever had the coveted WK Leh that wanted a GOS...

[J_T]

Wayne, right from the start of moving this to GOS, everyone at the table knew there was risk to the sustainability. And there have been ongoing discussions about this. There is every effort to closely monitor this. A key factor really is that the WK is able to produce 2 year old 6 points, which we assume would not be sustainable under a high harvest hunt.

At the time, those at the table agreed that decisions around the sustainability of the WK elk hunt needed to be dynamic and not linger on while the population diminished. If it does return to something other than what we have now, I'm optimistic it could start with a shorter GOS and maintain opportunity through bow only seasons or a combination which includes LEH.

[Fisher-Dude]

ask your cousin if all he saw was wolf tracks what he thinks they are eating.....never talked to anyone that ever had the coveted WK Leh that wanted a GOS...

You should have talked to me then. I had the draw in the mid-90s and am happy as hell that it went GOS.

All my friends in the WK are happy that they can now hunt elk in a herd of >5,000 animals in their backyards. We hunt elk in region 8 in a herd of 1,000 animals, have for 60 years, and the herd is still expanding.

Too bad people like you want to keep people from going on sustainable hunts. You attack youth hunters, you attack elk hunters - do you ever stop attacking fellow hunters? I don't think I've ever come across a more selfish hunter than you, Ern.

[Fisher-Dude]

Wayne, right from the start of moving this to GOS, everyone at the table knew there was risk to the sustainability. And there have been ongoing discussions about this. There is every effort to closely monitor this. A key factor really is that the WK is able to produce 2 year old 6 points, which we assume would not be sustainable under a high harvest hunt.

At the time, those at the table agreed that decisions around the sustainability of the WK elk hunt needed to be dynamic and not linger on while the population diminished. If it does return to something other than what we have now, I'm optimistic it could start with a shorter GOS and maintain opportunity through bow only seasons or a combination which includes LEH.

Are the sex ratios below 20:100? Not from any of the surveys I've seen. In fact, the last one I saw had a ratio of 66:100. Even at 10:100 there is no true conservation issue.

"Sustainability" and "I want the bush all to myself" are two entirely different things.

It's impossible to create a sustainability issue with a 6 point bull elk season.

[325]

I live in the WK and there is NO conservation concern with the elk here. BTW, I don't have a dog in the fight, as I hunt in WK MUs that have always been open. The sky is not falling.

[J_T]

Apologies to Wayne that FD wants to make this all about him.

So.... if there is one bull and 5 cows left, we still have a nice 20:100 ratio, but one might wonder if it's sustainable. Combinations of hunting bulls, road/rail and predation kills does add up. And I'm just reiterating what I hear from the biologist. So of course my comments are hearsay. But I know that's irrelevant to you, you'd prefer not to really think, but just attack. The decision is up to Government. Not you and not me. And I'm quite sure, in all of the discussions on this topic, I didn't see you sitting at the table.

You also might want to look a little closer at who proposed the WK GOS first. I believe it was me and the fact I choose to hunt with a bow is irrelevant. I'm sure in your small mind, it must bother you to no end that I would promote a GOS? Probably causes a system overload trying to understand it.

Do all of your assumptions and accusations get you in to trouble? Live alone do you?

[Jagermeister]

OK, it's early in the day and this thread has that look of being the classic. So, I just popped a bag of popcorn and settling in for the long haul. Later on in the day I will poop a bag of popcorn.

[The Hermit]

I read FD's post as attacking Ern not Wayne... either way he is still off base with the personal attacks! I wonder if he has ever met either of these fine people as he clearly doesn't have a ****ing clue as to their actual integrity, deep experience, vast knowledge, believes, or values. It seems that anytime anyone posts an opinion, question, fact, or rumor that doesn't mesh with FD's he becomes like a pit bull gone bad. Frankly, I'm tired of his tripe.... some people are like clouds, its a nice day once they **** off!

Wayne - Yes, there has been brief discussion about the sustainability of that hunt at the Provincial table. As far as I know at this time, there haven't been any Government decisions made yet. However, as J_T mentioned it is a hunt that is being closely watched both Regionally and Provincially.

[Fisher-Dude]

I read FD's post as attacking Ern not Wayne... either way he is still off base with the personal attacks! I wonder if he has ever met either of these fine people as he clearly doesn't have a ****ing clue as to their actual integrity, deep experience, vast knowledge, believes, or values. It seems that anytime anyone posts an opinion, question, fact, or rumor that doesn't mesh with FD's he becomes like a pit bull gone bad. Frankly, I'm tired of his tripe.... some people are like clouds, its a nice day once they **** off!

Wayne - Yes, there has been brief discussion about the sustainability of that hunt at the Provincial table. As far as I know at this time, there haven't been any Government decisions made yet. However, as J_T mentioned it is a hunt that is being closely watched both Regionally and Provincially.

Feel free to use the ignore button. If it makes your day better, I encourage you to. But then you won't be able to see what I say about your close friends in the GOABC. Your choice, no skin off my ass.

Ern has made no bones about his desire to see hunting opportunities in this province curtailed, including closure of youth seasons. Restating it to put his post into context isn't a crime. It's to provide information to those who may not know the history of his crusade.

I have all the respect in the world for Wayne - he is a good friend and I appreciate all his posts and his passion for the hunt. He congratulates other hunters and contributes much to raise hunters' profile and has given more to this site than anyone else in the way of content.

Ern simply chimes in to promote his agenda of shutting down hunting for others. He's entitled to do so. Just don't shoot at me for pointing it out.

[The Hermit]

LoL you must be delusional AND paranoid.

[HarryToolips]

According to the BC outdoors magazine, which gets all of it's info directly from the MOE, said before last season that many WK bulls are surviving theseasons and a healthy number of very mature bulls...I would tend to believe them ....

[.264winmag]

Grew up in wk, kept a close ear on elk harvested when still on leh. Still keep close ear since it went gos, can only think of a couple years where more elk have been harvested during gos as opposed to leh. Perhaps not quite as easy to hunt due to gos but like they say, 5% of elk hunters take 95% of the elk, or something along those lines. If you put your time the animals are still there, even I managed to tag a couple. It's a great hunting opportunity that I always look forward to if schedule allows, would be a shame to see that opportunity disappear. I am no biologist and area I'm familiar with is just a small portion of wk, I'd imagine it's similar throughout...

[BgBlkDg]

ask your cousin if all he saw was wolf tracks what he thinks they are eating.....never talked to anyone that ever had the coveted WK Leh that wanted a GOS...

You must not speak with many of the serious, experienced and successful hunters whom I know at home as most wanted the GOS.

I had the LEH in 2008, had a vehicle issue and did not score, but, had an interesting trip. Now, I can go home and hunt as much as I am capable of doing and enjoy my heritage. which, to me, is the point.

We know what the predators are eating and I also understand the dynamics of pred.-prey cycles and so far, all the credible reports I have had access to have indicated much the same thing.

[.300WSMImpact!]

Numbers are down, no animals anywhere, stay home, go to costco, no animals left to hunt anywhere, nobody will kill an elk or deer in the west koots again, the horror

[budismyhorse]

Wayne.....as others have stated......its just being "talked about" right now. The gov't will likely be bringing in Compulsory Inspection on those elk to gather some actual harvest and age data from teeth. After that, and a winter survey of surviving elk, a decision will be made moving forward.

Until then, there is no actual reason to process an emergency regulation change and send it back to LEH.

As well, there are also other options that would be explored......like a shortened GOS season....or a longer Bow Season.....ect ect.

Its not going to LEH for 2015 season, that's for sure.

[hunter1947]

You must not speak with many of the serious, experienced and successful hunters whom I know at home as most wanted the GOS.

I had the LEH in 2008, had a vehicle issue and did not score, but, had an interesting trip. Now, I can go home and hunt as much as I am capable of doing and enjoy my heritage. which, to me, is the point.

We know what the predators are eating and I also understand the dynamics of pred.-prey cycles and so far, all the credible reports I have had access to have indicated much the same thing.

I am not worried about the rumor I heard lots of times there just rumors nothing else just someone trying to stir up the shit I don't hunt the WK so if the rumor is correct and I am saying rumor it won't effect where I hunt...

[hunter1947]

Just to let you all know I don't hold any grudges against anyone I feel bad for starting this thread if it has some members upset I am sorry ,,I never let anything words that people say upset me at all ,,remember life is to short to get upset at things that words won't hurt you..

[hunter1947]

Wayne, right from the start of moving this to GOS, everyone at the table knew there was risk to the sustainability. And there have been ongoing discussions about this. There is every effort to closely monitor this. A key factor really is that the WK is able to produce 2 year old 6 points, which we assume would not be sustainable under a high harvest hunt.

At the time, those at the table agreed that decisions around the sustainability of the WK elk hunt needed to be dynamic and not linger on while the population diminished. If it does return to something other than what we have now, I'm optimistic it could start with a shorter GOS and maintain opportunity through bow only seasons or a combination which includes LEH.


J_T this is good news for elk hunters that hunt the WK I hope the management can get a handle on the WK elk population to keep it from dropping in numbers stable what elk numbers are there in 2016,,2017..

[hunter1947]

According to the BC outdoors magazine, which gets all of it's info directly from the MOE, said before last season that many WK bulls are surviving theseasons and a healthy number of very mature bulls...I would tend to believe them ....


Thats not what I heard I know WK boys that grew up in fruitville hunt elk there and they told me that the big monarchs are not up in numbers as they where after they opened up a GOS meaning the big bulls are not there like they used to be ,,the WK might be headed like EK in years to come ??? its hard to find a 350+ bull in the EK now believe me i have been trying to get a 350+ bull here in the EK now coming up to 48 years hunting elk here in the EK....

[Whonnock Boy]

I would venture to guess just as with any ungulate, they have adapted to the open season, and no longer hang out in open cut blocks in the broad daylight. ;)


Thats not what I heard I know WK boys that hunt elk there and they told me that the big monarchs are not up in numbers as they where before they opened up a GOS meaning the big bulls are not there like they used to be..

[BgBlkDg]

I saw three last October at night between Salmo and Fruitvale, pretty dark and I wont shine my lightbar on animals and harass them, but, they were big, pale in colour and quite spooky..... too late to try for a stalk.

[.300WSMImpact!]

killing 6 point bulls will not lower the population, if you want proof of that just come over to region 8 where in a lot of areas most if not all the 6 point bulls get killed every year and the herd still gets bigger, if the elk numbers are dropping it isnt hunters that are doing it, maybe poachers maybe the other kind of hunters but probably predators, I hunt in the west koots but only in a few select areas, the elk seem fine maybe even climbing in numbers but I cant speak for the majority of the west koots

[Mikey Rafiki]

So you're saying those WK cows aren't stuck up and only get bred by 350" bulls?

[palmer]

There is no plan to put WK Elk on inspection this year...and always rumours that Elk in 8 is coming off inspection....My understanding

[hunter1947]

So you're saying those WK cows aren't stuck up and only get bred by 350" bulls?

LOL to funny.

[aggiehunter]

everyone has a chance at LEH....but alas some hunters would rather have a GOS sheep season for full curls and walk around looking at 3/4 curl rams just to say they got to go sheep hunting....that's the new mantra adopted by some. I never said I wanted nobody to hunt and I did speak with as many guys as I could before the WK went to GOS..all were choked...sorry I never got to talk to others who had a disappointing hunt....we have 3 very nice LEH WK 6 pointers in our little family...none mine though. Not sure why Fd wants to keep grinding that anger mill over me being opposed to the youth season being put right into the BOW ONLY season...he should get over it...I am.

[HarryToolips]

killing 6 point bulls will not lower the population, if you want proof of that just come over to region 8 where in a lot of areas most if not all the 6 point bulls get killed every year and the herd still gets bigger, if the elk numbers are dropping it isnt hunters that are doing it, maybe poachers maybe the other kind of hunters but probably predators, I hunt in the west koots but only in a few select areas, the elk seem fine maybe even climbing in numbers but I cant speak for the majority of the west koots
I'm going to have to agree with this...the last provincial ungulate estimate (2011) predicted the region 8 elk herd to be around 1500, and growing..even over here on the West side of OK lake, I in all my time in the bush here have never seen an elk (have heard rumour there's a few) and guess what, we have the same 6 point season here as everywhere else in the WK...in the spots I know in the WK I have seen a decent amount of elk so how could it not sustain the same season as we have here in region 8 where we also have more (on average) logging road access..

[Spy]

everyone has a chance at LEH....but alas some hunters would rather have a GOS sheep season for full curls and walk around looking at 3/4 curl rams just to say they got to go sheep hunting....that's the new mantra adopted by some. I never said I wanted nobody to hunt and I did speak with as many guys as I could before the WK went to GOS..all were choked...sorry I never got to talk to others who had a disappointing hunt....we have 3 very nice LEH WK 6 pointers in our little family...none mine though. Not sure why Fd wants to keep grinding that anger mill over me being opposed to the youth season being put right into the BOW ONLY season...he should get over it...I am.
Bingo Pat has a real hate on for you & JT always has and likes taking personal shots at you two ! Everytime you say black he has to say white its in his nature. His hate for bow hunters is apparent !

[Spy]

[QUOTE=Fisher-Dude;1664224]Feel free to use the ignore button. If it makes your day better, I encourage you to. But then you won't be able to see what I say about your close friends in the GOABC. Your choice, no skin off my ass.

Seriously Bill went out of his way to accomodate you and others in his home during the Victoria protest! "Bills close friends in the GOABC !" Are you ****ed in your head ! You know very well that aint true, why would you post lies like this on a forum to discredit a man of Bill stature ? You just hate that Bill is good friends with Ernie and Jim & a bow hunter to boot! You are the one that hates bow only seasons & bow hunters & would like nothing more than to see it shut down! I have lost much respect for you Pat attacking Bill was a low blow!

[Everett]

Wayne %99 of hunter couldn't give a rats ass about 350 bulls because they taste the exact same a 230 bulls. There is absolutely no reason to put WK Elk on LEH you can not affect the population killing only 6 point bulls.

[Clint_S]

Better to take the hunt out of the rut than go back to LEH.
I applied for 15 years and never got a draw. If it goes back to LEH I will be dead before I get a tag.

[Elkaholic]

Better to take the hunt out of the rut than go back to LEH.
I applied for 15 years and never got a draw. If it goes back to LEH I will be dead before I get a tag.


I have said this for years, take the hunt out of the rut and we will be golden.

[budismyhorse]

As others have stated there are a lot of options before LEH goes back in. When you look at the data, last year was a little bump up in harvest compared to 2013.....so its tough to argue the hunt isn't sustainable.

Some folks are confusing their "want" for a trophy hunt with a sustainable one........when you boil it down no one can say a 6 pt season paired up with the EK season is unsustainable......at this point.

If those elk pops are dipping, its got everything to do with predation. Cows are getting bred.....but are their offspring surviving? That's the question for me anyways.

I've sat at a table with all hunting stakeholders and the regional Biols.....asked point blank if anyone had hard evidence the hunt isn't sustainable. Total silence.

However, there is the threat in the background lingering is everyone's mind that the populations are down and something has to be done......but until some better data is attained, nothing is going to change with this hunt.

[Fisher-Dude]

As others have stated there are a lot of options before LEH goes back in. When you look at the data, last year was a little bump up in harvest compared to 2013.....so its tough to argue the hunt isn't sustainable.

Some folks are confusing their "want" for a trophy hunt with a sustainable one........when you boil it down no one can say a 6 pt season paired up with the EK season is unsustainable......at this point.

If those elk pops are dipping, its got everything to do with predation. Cows are getting bred.....but are their offspring surviving? That's the question for me anyways.

I've sat at a table with all hunting stakeholders and the regional Biols.....asked point blank if anyone had hard evidence the hunt isn't sustainable. Total silence.

However, there is the threat in the background lingering is everyone's mind that the populations are down and something has to be done......but until some better data is attained, nothing is going to change with this hunt.

Quit applying scientific game management principles and adopt social wants of certain hunters to the elk herd.

This science stuff is BULLSHIT because I was going hunting once and some other guys were parked where I wanted to go.

Close it down! Make it LEH! Make it bow only! Make it 28 point or bigger!

/sarc off