Save Howe Sound....

[nuadixion]

There is a lot of industrial activities planed in near future for Howe Sound.......Herring, Salmon, Whales and Dolphins are back....lets not put it at risk again.

Please join the boat parade in protest.
Thank you.
for details please visit:
http://futureofhowesound.org/campaigns/s-o-s-rendezvous-2015/

[f350ps]

If you can promise me a good paying job for my kid and a David Suzuki autograph I'll be there with bells on! :) K

[Bear Chaser]

Bring on the LNG plant and the tanker traffic. Granola munchin hippies need jobs too.

[magnumjeff]

leaf lickers got to love them.

[Amphibious]

Woodfiber LNG is the best thing that could happen to Squamish. Make it an industry town again, and not just a speed bump for douchbags on their way to "Whistlah"

[HD95]

I like to work,I like to make money.I support Woodfiber LNG

[boxhitch]

Industry and wildlife can and do coexist , when its done right.
If there is a problem , the whales will just have to suck it up

Kudos to the protestors for standing for their principles.........by driving to the launch in their plastic cars and massing together in their fuel guzzling plastic boats.

[kagia]

Who wants a healthy economy anyway...

[nuadixion]

Before industry arrived to Howe Sound, tourism and sport fishing industry was booming .....then heavy push for economy came and killed it all (wildlife and economy)....Taxpayer had to come up and pay to fix it all up. Now the industry wants to do it again..offering Few jobs and another destruction of the environment.
Do your DD and then open your mouth......

Tourism is one of the biggest (ahead of heavy industries) contributors to BC economy DO not forget Film ....They love Howe Sound...How many people they employ?.....Howe Sound is next door to Downtown Vancouver....even cruise ships pass through on the way to Alaska....
LNG will create water traffic and safety hazard traffic ....gravel pit will kill the salmon spawning creek....incinerator will pollute the air ..all together they will create a handful of jobs at a cost of millions of $ in tourism, sport fishing and hunting ....and damage the environment.
You all sound like a bunch of real Red Necks.....no wonder hunters have bad rep.
Think for today ...forget tomorrow....

[scoutlt1]

Before industry arrived to Howe Sound, tourism and sport fishing industry was booming .....then heavy push for economy came and killed it all (wildlife and economy)....Taxpayer had to come up and pay to fix it all up. Now the industry wants to do it again..offering Few jobs and another destruction of the environment.
Do your DD and then open your mouth......

Tourism is one of the biggest (ahead of heavy industries) contributors to BC economy DO not forget Film ....They love Howe Sound...How many people they employ?.....Howe Sound is next door to Downtown Vancouver....even cruise ships pass through on the way to Alaska....
LNG will create water traffic and safety hazard traffic ....gravel pit will kill the salmon spawning creek....incinerator will pollute the air ..all together they will create a handful of jobs at a cost of millions of $ in tourism, sport fishing and hunting ....and damage the environment.
You all sound like a bunch of real Red Necks.....no wonder hunters have bad rep.
Think for today ...forget tomorrow....


How did ya make out with the LEH?

[nuadixion]

Woodfiber LNG is the best thing that could happen to Squamish. Make it an industry town again, and not just a speed bump for douchbags on their way to "Whistlah"
Best thing that happened to Squamish is the Sea to Sky Gondola.......Because of that Squamish became a "must see city " ......The whole town benefits now from the tourist traffic.
http://www.vancouversun.com/Squamish+makes+York+Times+list+must+visit+locales+ with+video/10726352/story.html
LNG will be a step back.......
You guys are nuts.......Think first!

[nuadixion]

How did ya make out with the LEH?
I got nothing.....:(

[sky-gunner]

Before industry arrived to Howe Sound, tourism and sport fishing industry was booming .....then heavy push for economy came and killed it all (wildlife and economy)....Taxpayer had to come up and pay to fix it all up. Now the industry wants to do it again..offering Few jobs and another destruction of the environment.
Do your DD and then open your mouth......

Tourism is one of the biggest (ahead of heavy industries) contributors to BC economy DO not forget Film ....They love Howe Sound...How many people they employ?.....Howe Sound is next door to Downtown Vancouver....even cruise ships pass through on the way to Alaska....
LNG will create water traffic and safety hazard traffic ....gravel pit will kill the salmon spawning creek....incinerator will pollute the air ..all together they will create a handful of jobs at a cost of millions of $ in tourism, sport fishing and hunting ....and damage the environment.
You all sound like a bunch of real Red Necks.....no wonder hunters have bad rep.
Think for today ...forget tomorrow....

Cruisers do not enter Howe sound. The would be a minimal increase in marine traffic, this has no affect on safety unless your some moron who happened to buy a boat, with zero knowledge of col regs, ie who has the right of way, when and how and why. If your dumb enough to cross the bow of a ship and put along until your run over, you deserved it. LNG is way safer for the environment the alot of other products. Explain how the environment will be damaged? This isnt the 60, 70 or 80's, you cant just dump shit in the chuck no more. People who can afford homes and nice things are way more beneficial to the economy then the very marginal amount of tourists that fish the sound. How you figure its gonna affect hunting? All of what you just said sounds fearful, uneducated and very hippie like.

[albravo2]

I think the gondola is great but I don't think LNG would be a step back in any way.

Thanks to all preceding posters that have supported additional industry in this corridor. I'd guess 80% of my neighbourhood drives to Vancouver every day for work. How is THAT good for the environment?

Squamish is a fabulous place to live. Some local jobs would make things even better.

[Hunter gatherer]

My wife told me to be nice. We lived in Squamish for over 20 years. We watched big industry take what it wants,kill what it has to and leave when it's all used up (BC rail Woodfibre and Interfor).Good jobs when they were here. Now Squamish is doing better than ever,no longer a speed bump for Whistler. Tourism has created many well paying jobs in this booming town. Do some research,find out for yourself. I could go on but then it would be a rant. I could enter a battle of wits with some of you but I realize some of you are severely under armed .

[BgBlkDg]

Well, I think that several huge mines in the best Stones Sheep habitat would be real good for jobs and the rams would just have to suck it up.......

[nuadixion]

Cruisers do not enter Howe sound. The would be a minimal increase in marine traffic, this has no affect on safety unless your some moron who happened to buy a boat, with zero knowledge of col regs, ie who has the right of way, when and how and why. If your dumb enough to cross the bow of a ship and put along until your run over, you deserved it. LNG is way safer for the environment the alot of other products. Explain how the environment will be damaged? This isnt the 60, 70 or 80's, you cant just dump shit in the chuck no more. People who can afford homes and nice things are way more beneficial to the economy then the very marginal amount of tourists that fish the sound. How you figure its gonna affect hunting? All of what you just said sounds fearful, uneducated and very hippie like.

Cruisers go through Howe Sound all the time.......I can see them from my window.

Have you been living in a cave?....you have not seen accidents that happen all over?..who pays for the damage??? Regulations are broken all the time....look at BP gulf "accident"...there are lots .....you don't have to look hard.
Mcnab creek Gravel pit .....is planned next to salmon spawning creek...
Do you need handful of jobs at the cost of millions of lost revenue?
LNG will be open .... there are number of proposals ....and it should happen at locations with minimal impact .....

[sky-gunner]

You maybe see tour boats but you do not see cruise ships. Huge difference. But its a moot point regardless. Comparing a LNG plant to the deep water horizon is about the stupidest thing ive heard in a while. Huge difference between a compressed gas and crude oil. The only reason LNG is liquid is because its compressed. As soon as its no longer compressed it rapidly evaporates. Not even the same ball park as the BP spill. Id like to assume you know the difference between a offshore rig drilling stupidly deep, and a stationary terminal, whos sole purpose is to load a finished product for shipping, at a facility that pollutes far less then the few pulp mills left on this coast. But you are correct, eventually the LNG plant(s) will open, and no amount of fear mongering or fact twisting will stop them.

[Keta1969]

So' whats better for the planet as a whole LNG fired plants in Asia or more coal thru Point Roberts? Sounds like a bad case of NIMBYISM. I hope it goes ahead.

[nuadixion]

You maybe see tour boats but you do not see cruise ships. Huge difference. But its a moot point regardless. Comparing a LNG plant to the deep water horizon is about the stupidest thing ive heard in a while. Huge difference between a compressed gas and crude oil. The only reason LNG is liquid is because its compressed. As soon as its no longer compressed it rapidly evaporates. Not even the same ball park as the BP spill. Id like to assume you know the difference between a offshore rig drilling stupidly deep, and a stationary terminal, whos sole purpose is to load a finished product for shipping, at a facility that pollutes far less then the few pulp mills left on this coast. But you are correct, eventually the LNG plant(s) will open, and no amount of fear mongering or fact twisting will stop them.

Is this a pissing contest...?

Bottom line is if the industries go ahead in Howe Sound it will hurt local economies and put environment at risk (knowing from history will damage it...again).......I am not talking about LNG alone, but also about gravel pit and garbage burning facility...

[OutdoorDave]

Is this a pissing contest...?

Bottom line is if the industries go ahead in Howe Sound it will hurt local economies and put environment at risk (knowing from history will damage it...again).......I am not talking about LNG alone, but also about gravel pit and garbage burning facility...

You make it sound like the environment has been given no consideration in these projects. Every single project you cite has to be reviewed and approved by government experts.

You claim these things put the environment at risk, but you can't articulate how.

The environmental movement has unfortunately tarnished it's reputation. Time and time again, these people fearmonger and lie.

[tuner]

I'm not aware of too many high paying tourism jobs.

[sky-gunner]

Is this a pissing contest...?

Bottom line is if the industries go ahead in Howe Sound it will hurt local economies and put environment at risk (knowing from history will damage it...again).......I am not talking about LNG alone, but also about gravel pit and garbage burning facility...

I just can't stand fear mongering bullshit from tree huggers with no facts. If thats what you call a pissing contest, then it is what it is.

[Gateholio]

Squamish seems to be doing fine every time I go through there. When it was an industrial town it was always stinky there. :)

It sounds to me like there may be minimal job creation with the plant, and may not be worth the trade off. Squamish appears to be attracting tourists all on it's own now, and that might be hurt with an industrial plant nearby.

We don't have to have a mine, a plant, a dam, industry everywhere in BC.

[albravo2]

We watched big industry take what it wants,kill what it has to and leave when it's all used up (BC rail Woodfibre and Interfor).Good jobs when they were here. Now Squamish is doing better than ever,no longer a speed bump for Whistler. Tourism has created many well paying jobs in this booming town. Do some research,find out for yourself. I could go on but then it would be a rant. I could enter a battle of wits with some of you but I realize some of you are severely under armed .

Uh, care to tell me specifically what BCRail took and killed before it left? You think we're doing 'better than ever' with everyone driving 40 miles to and from work?

[edg]

I raised my family in Squamish and worked at Woodfibre for 22 years before it closed in 06. My daughter and most of her friends who grew up there all commute to earn a living. Tourism is good if you OWN the company and have a good year, otherwise employees rely heavily on tips cause the pay is crap.

[nuadixion]

You make it sound like the environment has been given no consideration in these projects. Every single project you cite has to be reviewed and approved by government experts.

You claim these things put the environment at risk, but you can't articulate how.

The environmental movement has unfortunately tarnished it's reputation. Time and time again, these people fearmonger and lie.

Howe Sound is doing great....."generates" a lot of $ in revenue from tourists who come here to fish, hunt, sight see, make movies etc.....all these proposed industrial developments will diminish that and replace it with lesser $, uglier, more dangerous one.
Why not do it in economically undeveloped area and have both?

BTW all these gov experts have been "castrated" by S Harper gov..... guess who will get the "green light" to rape and pillage at will?......

How has the "Environmental movement" tarnished its reputation......any salmon spawning creeks dead?....casualties?......oil spills?

"Environment movement" is the only thing that stands between you and bloody rich lobbyists who spread propaganda....dont be dumb and take it for a fact.

Please guys do your own DD before you cast opinion in public....

[Bear Chaser]

Why not do it in economically undeveloped area and have both?


Please guys do your own DD before you cast opinion in public....

Please name one undeveloped deep water port on the entire coast of BC that would be economically feasible to access, has a readily available labor force, and wouldn't ruin an environment more pristine than the Brittania mine polluted waters of Howe Sound.

I like many others will be eagerly awaiting your reply.
Go ahead and take the time to do your Due Diligence.

[SAVAGEONE]

Before industry arrived to Howe Sound, tourism and sport fishing industry was booming .....then heavy push for economy came and killed it all (wildlife and economy)....Taxpayer had to come up and pay to fix it all up. Now the industry wants to do it again..offering Few jobs and another destruction of the environment.
Do your DD and then open your mouth......

Tourism is one of the biggest (ahead of heavy industries) contributors to BC economy DO not forget Film ....They love Howe Sound...How many people they employ?.....Howe Sound is next door to Downtown Vancouver....even cruise ships pass through on the way to Alaska....
LNG will create water traffic and safety hazard traffic ....gravel pit will kill the salmon spawning creek....incinerator will pollute the air ..all together they will create a handful of jobs at a cost of millions of $ in tourism, sport fishing and hunting ....and damage the environment.
You all sound like a bunch of real Red Necks.....no wonder hunters have bad rep.
Think for today ...forget tomorrow....

hmm, those cruise ships & cars/buses moving all those thousands tourists run on solar power ? not to mention all the methane spewing from their behind.
,

[srupp]

Howe Sound is doing great....."generates" a lot of $ in revenue from tourists who come here to fish, hunt, sight see, make movies etc.....all these proposed industrial developments will diminish that and replace it with lesser $, uglier, more dangerous one.
Why not do it in economically undeveloped area and have both?

BTW all these gov experts have been "castrated" by S Harper gov..... guess who will get the "green light" to rape and pillage at will?......

How has the "Environmental movement" tarnished its reputation......any salmon spawning creeks dead?....casualties?......oil spills?

"Environment movement" is the only thing that stands between you and bloody rich lobbyists who spread propaganda....dont be dumb and take it for a fact.

Please guys do your own DD before you cast opinion in public....

Wow I would agree with you but then we would both be wrong. .
You want cpp..oap, medical dental..thriving economy..it must be paid for..or we all go live on the rez..
Greece for Canada is just around the corner..everyone wants to go to heaven but nonody wants to die..there is a cost for evonomic stability in Canada..waiting tables aint going to cut it..
Careful extraction and delivery in a safe enviromental manner..
Rather than bitching and pissing come up with a plan b..something that pays the bills...google greece pensioners crying in despair..losing everything..im certain youll be lining up for your cpp, oap, medical etc..it doesnt grow magically ..it takes work and investment..
Investment principles are pretty clear..showing up to stop a works project seems ridiculous if their sint no other plan for paying the bills.
Steven

[Ohwildwon]

Please name one undeveloped deep water port on the entire coast of BC that would be economically feasible to access, has a readily available labor force, and wouldn't ruin an environment more pristine than the Brittania mine polluted waters of Howe Sound.

I like many others will be eagerly awaiting your reply.
Go ahead and take the time to do your Due Diligence.

The LNG Project will happen, and there is F all you can do about it...

What you can do is hold their feet to the fire, and make the industry as accountable as possible..

[Bear Chaser]

Absolutely going to happen. There are far too many high paying jobs at stake.
I doubt the OP realizes that for every job created in an LNG plant my very conservative guess would be that ten more are created upstream of it in day to day operations to supply it. The exploration and infrastructure construction will be at least ten times that number again.
Or we could do nothing in an area that has already had a great deal of industrial activity and is far from the pristine wilderness of his imagination.

[Keta1969]

Tourism jobs for the most part are low paying seasonal jobs with participants going on E.I. for the winter. There wouldn't be any movies been made in B.C. with out tax breaks from the Province(they are always playing one province off against another). Just came through the Fort Nelson area and they're hurting and activity is slowing because they can't get gas to markets.

[albravo2]

There is nothing wrong with either the wilderness or Howe Sound and I wouldn't support these projects if I thought it was a choice between industry and environment.

Good point that this is not just about jobs in squamish, it is about infrastructure for a provincial industry.

[Squire]

Howe Sound is doing great....."generates" a lot of $ in revenue from tourists who come here to fish, hunt, sight see, make movies etc.....all these proposed industrial developments will diminish that and replace it with lesser $, uglier, more dangerous one.
Why not do it in economically undeveloped area and have both?

BTW all these gov experts have been "castrated" by S Harper gov..... guess who will get the "green light" to rape and pillage at will?......

How has the "Environmental movement" tarnished its reputation......any salmon spawning creeks dead?....casualties?......oil spills?

"Environment movement" is the only thing that stands between you and bloody rich lobbyists who spread propaganda....dont be dumb and take it for a fact.

Please guys do your own DD before you cast opinion in public....

Good advice.

Squamish is not 'doing great'; consecutive tax increases to fund the shift from high-paying industrial properties to residential for Vancouver commuters isn't 'great'.
The LNG plant will pay $6-7M per year in taxes to Squamish. That's almost enough to compensate for a tourism economy.

[BgBlkDg]

First, the traitors of the BC Lieberals will rush these LNG projects through and sell OUR resources at bargain rates to the world enemy CHINA, then, they will allow foreign workers in to take these jobs and the locals who support this will be jobless......

There is a brutal irony about those who say that environmental issues must take last place in these situations and the foreign worker travesty.

[325 wsm]

[QUOTE=OutdoorDave;1656903] Every single project you cite has to be reviewed and approved by government experts.

Now thats hilarious
Maybe the same experts who worked on the allocation policy.

[Squire]

First, the traitors of the BC Lieberals will rush these LNG projects through and sell OUR resources at bargain rates to the world enemy CHINA, then, they will allow foreign workers in to take these jobs and the locals who support this will be jobless......

There is a brutal irony about those who say that environmental issues must take last place in these situations and the foreign worker travesty.

Support for projects like Woodfibre LNG is conditional. Nobody says the environment should take last place but when conditions are met few will take "the tankers will hurt the whales in Howe Sound" seriously. Support also depends on local jobs being provided, along with significant tax benefits to the community. If the government commits to these conditions and deceives us you can say, "I told you so". Until then, I will largely ignore the 'Chicken Little' movement.

[albravo2]

Any commenters on here ever made more money in tourism than they did in industry?

Prostitution doesn't count. I think that is classified as industry.

[Gateholio]

Any commenters on here ever made more money in tourism than they did in industry?

Prostitution doesn't count. I think that is classified as industry.

Sure.

As a Chef in Whistler I made about the same working 50 hours a week as I did operating a truck and equipment in the oil patch, but working 70-80 hours a week. (low 6 figures) So I actually made more per hour in tourism than industry, and I slept in my own bed most nights.

Lots of tradesmen benefit from tourism, too. Plenty of carpenters plumbers and electricians made lots of money in Whistler.

Servers can go home with a few hundred a night in tips.

Overall, industry is going to pay better most of the time, but tourism jobs aren't all minimum wage jobs either. And many prefer the lifestyle, too.

Hopefully Squamish can decide what's best for themselves, and be able to get the best deal possible. Howe Sound has had a remarkable recovery and it would be terrible to jeopardize that for the sake of just a handful of jobs. Construction of the project will employ people from all over, not just locals. That's just the nature of these types of projects.

[charlie_horse]

No offense gatehouse, but those figures are definitely the exception and not the rule as far as a chef goes or anything to do with tourism. 6figures for a chef at 50 hours a week? I do have a tough time believing that one. Lng tax base can only help squamish, but I guess I come from industrial roots here.

[MichelD]

Squamish seems to be doing fine every time I go through there. When it was an industrial town it was always stinky there. :)

It sounds to me like there may be minimal job creation with the plant, and may not be worth the trade off. Squamish appears to be attracting tourists all on it's own now, and that might be hurt with an industrial plant nearby.

We don't have to have a mine, a plant, a dam, industry everywhere in BC.

Gate is right.

I saw a spokesman for one on the big LNG projects in Kitimat quoted in the G&M in 2013 stating that they intend to have much of the infrastructure pre-fabricated overseas as a cost-saving measure.

[albravo2]

Anybody making six figures in a kitchen is absolutely an exception to the rule. Can you think of a restaurant in Squamish that could pay anything close to that?

There is no restaurant in Squamish with a price point anywhere close to that required for a server to take home several hundred dollars in tips.

[Gateholio]

Anybody making six figures in a kitchen is absolutely an exception to the rule. Can you think of a restaurant in Squamish that could pay anything close to that?

There is no restaurant in Squamish with a price point anywhere close to that required for a server to take home several hundred dollars in tips.

You asked......:)

A restaurant is a business, and People that own multi million dollar businesses are more than happy to pay for good people.

Squamish restaurants may not have the revenue generating power that Whislter does, but Whistler tourism wasn't built overnight, either. The tradespeople around here are billing out $45-85/hr, most of them are employed due to a tourist base.

I don't think Squamish can become the tourism dollar generator that Whistler is, but Squamish sure looks good these days. I don't live there, though.

Tourism isn't necessarily super "green" either, and it must be examined just as much as industry. Whistler/Blackcomb permanently altered 2 mountains, drove off the goats and grizzlies and there has been a fiar share of pollution on those mountains (including fuel spills) The Village uses enormous amounts of electricity to run. People fly to Vancouver on fuel burning jets and drive up in fuel burning vehicles and stay in hotels that use tremendous resources to give customers a good experience, then they go on fuel buring snowmobile , hummer and atv rides. But people don't see that, they just see trees and assume everything is okay. :)

[JAGRMEISTER]

Nuadixion, you blame industry, when the most likely cause was overfishing herring! Without the logging and associated industries, you would still be parked in a tent/teepee and not getting around this province as easily. Get over the sentimental bullchit and think things through, you may come to a whole new reality....

[Ubertuber]

Howe Sound is only "special" because it's close to the city and all the urbanites. Most of them wouldn't give a rats ass if it was further up the coast. If they do give a rats ass, it's only because they listen to the eco-freaks.

[JAGRMEISTER]

If you were making the 6 figures as a chef, why aren't you carrying on in that line of work?

[Bubba123]

Howe Sound is doing great....."generates" a lot of $ in revenue from tourists who come here to fish, hunt, sight see, make movies etc.....all these proposed industrial developments will diminish that and replace it with lesser $, uglier, more dangerous one.
Why not do it in economically undeveloped area and have both?

BTW all these gov experts have been "castrated" by S Harper gov..... guess who will get the "green light" to rape and pillage at will?......

How has the "Environmental movement" tarnished its reputation......any salmon spawning creeks dead?....casualties?......oil spills?

"Environment movement" is the only thing that stands between you and bloody rich lobbyists who spread propaganda....dont be dumb and take it for a fact.

Please guys do your own DD before you cast opinion in public....

Everyone is free to put their opinions forth in public. Including you.

You are the only one who thinks everyone else but you is wrong...

[Gateholio]

If you were making the 6 figures as a chef, why aren't you carrying on in that line of work?

25 years was enough. I accomplished everything I had set out to do, and Food Network wasn't calling. ;)

Time to try something new. Last 5 years have been very interesting and I've done things I never had imagined a few years ago. :)

[Bubba123]

Tourism isn't necessarily super "green" either, and it must be examined just as much as industry. Whistler/Blackcomb permanently altered 2 mountains, drove off the goats and grizzlies and there has been a fiar share of pollution on those mountains (including fuel spills) The Village uses enormous amounts of electricity to run. People fly to Vancouver on fuel burning jets and drive up in fuel burning vehicles and stay in hotels that use tremendous resources to give customers a good experience, then they go on fuel buring snowmobile , hummer and atv rides. But people don't see that, they just see trees and assume everything is okay. :)

^^^ For the win.

[magnumjeff]

bring on LNG we need higher paying jobs here to suport the local economy

[tomla1]

funny how brain washed society is today. "We need jobs" "think of the economy" statements like these really piss me off. You dont need these jobs, you want these jobs. so you can pay for your massive house that sits empty half the year while your at camp,so you can drive around in your jacked to the sky truck with your snowmobiles in the back. All while your wife is out shopping for shit that will be redundant in 6 months. ect. we as people need to stop shitting on the "leaf lickers" and "eco freaks" and maybe just think for a second look away from the television and what the "news" is telling you. With out the "granola eaters" this province would have been clear cut and paved years ago. All for a job? doesn't make it right. My dad was a driller blaster building logging roads and i used to defend logging saying that it fed my family while i grew up, but that doesn't make it right. call me a hippie if you want disagree with me if you want , but you can still join me in hunting camp if you want. bow season right around the corner.
Tom

[rides bike to work]

Well said tomla1 if your a working man you'll find work even in a slow economy. Bc will always have foreign investment for the #1 reason. It's nice here. That can't be said for the rest of the country.we can't fall back on that if we industrialize our coastline.

[Gateholio]

In many ways, the eco-weenies are just as heavy into consumerism as any other group. They just have ways to sell it to themselves that it's "green" consumerism.

There is a place for big business and a place for granola eaters. The problem I have with the tree huggers is that they are, for the most part- misguided and ignorant. They want to STOP things and SAY NO to things. But they also want social services and funding for wildlife and nature and all the nice things money can buy. But who is going to pay for it?

Instead of just saying "NO" they should be working towards actual sustainability, not just paying lip service to it.