Big fire joe rich - highway 33

[358mag]

UPDATE 4:45 P.M.
The wildfire burning out of control on Highway 33 in Joe Rich has grown to 80 hectares, according to Kayla Pepper with the Wildfire Management Branch.
The fire was spotted about 2:45 p.m.
Pepper said the fire is burning in hot, dry conditions with winds from the north gusting at about 25 km/h. The fire is also burning up-slope.
The province has sent 27 firefighters and eight aircraft to assist local fire crews from halls throughout the Central Okanagan.
View a gallery of reader-submitted photos here (http://gallery.castanet.net/albums/2015/Highway+33+wildfire/).
UPDATE 4:30 P.M. - (Evacuation Update)
An Evacuation Order is being prepared and a tactical evacuation is underway of residences along Huckleberry Road between the intersections of Goudie Road and Sun Valley Road as well as residences along Jack Pine Road in the Joe Rich area. This is due to the grass and interface fire reported at 2:38 this afternoon above Highway 33.
Residents on Goudie Road and Sun Valley Road are on Evacuation Alert and should be prepared to leave their homes on a moments notice with important items and personal materials.
Trained and experienced fire fighters are responding from the Joe Rich, Kelowna, Lake Country and Ellison fire departments and are being assisted with a crew from the BC Wildfire Management Branch.
People are requested to stay away from the immediate area and RCMP is doing traffic control.
The Emergency Operation Centre has been activated to support crews in the field responding to this incident.
New information will be released to the public through the media and cordemergency.ca as soon as it becomes available.
View a gallery of reader-submitted photos here (http://gallery.castanet.net/albums/2015/Highway+33+wildfire/)
UPDATE 3:45 P.M.

[dakoda62]

Smoker caused probably. Throw em in prison if caught.

[rocksteady]

Smoker caused probably. Throw em in prison if caught.

And you know this how???

[ruger#1]

#5 by Othello is closed down due to a fire. Shut down so the tankers can do their job. Some one at the camp site must of forgot there is a Province wide fire ban starting today.

[358mag]

And you know this how???

First reports is that the fire started right off the side of Highway 33 so just speculation but not confirmed .

[ruger#1]

And you know this how???

Do you think it was started by a fag?

[dakoda62]

Other than lighting and over heated glass what are other possibilities? No lightening.

[ruger#1]

2011, Bill Marsh, Great Australian Shearing Stories, unnumbered page,

So I started off by asking the shearers if they minded if I took a belly off while they were having a fag. Then after a while they were asking me. They′d say, ‘Do yer wanta take over fer a bit while I have a fag?’ And then I got better and I′d finish the sheep and they′d say ‘Christ, I haven′t finished me bloody fag yet, yer may as well shear anotherie.’

[rocksteady]

Catalytic converter, brake shoe,.. many others

[dakoda62]

Are you a smoker Rocksteady lol

[ruger#1]

Catalytic converter, brake shoe,.. many others A bird landing on the power lines.

[dakoda62]

All possible, but ill bet a dime to a doughnut it was a smoker lol

[dakoda62]

Watching the bombers out my front window

[rocksteady]

Are you a smoker Rocksteady lol

Nope, 5 years clean

[358mag]

Nope, 5 years clean
Con grats good for you keep it up, sure you feel a lot better too .http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.png

[rocksteady]

But I am a trained, certified fire cause investigator for wildland fires...

[358mag]

But I am a trained, certified fire cause investigator for wildland fires...

Your going to have a very busy summer

[rocksteady]

Your going to have a very busy summer
yup. I think so

[ruger#1]

Where is our friend?

https://youtu.be/GkfHCRChve8

Was in the area at the time. He would come in at OK Falls. And almost be to Penticton when he lifted of.

[limit time]

Smoker caused probably. Throw em in prison if caught.
Drunk and texting also.....

[scoutlt1]

Drunk and texting also.....

I am always up for having a smoke after a bunch of beers, and texting my buddies about how hammered I am while I'm flicking a butt out my window.

The best part of it is that I'm doing all that with my useless, loaded, .308 leaned up next to me, pointed at my mostest awesomest buddy in the passenger seat.

Life is good. I'm so happy I can do all this shit and not have to worry about anything.

[Sofa King]

I am always up for having a smoke after a bunch of beers, and texting my buddies about how hammered I am while I'm flicking a butt out my window.

The best part of it is that I'm doing all that with my useless, loaded, .308 leaned up next to me, pointed at my mostest awesomest buddy in the passenger seat.

Life is good. I'm so happy I can do all this shit and not have to worry about anything.

So true.
All the enforcers are busy downtown walking the mega wide sidewalks handing out positive affirmation.

[Bradm]

The fire on highway 5 by othello was caused by a vehicle that caught fire

[Sofa King]

The fire on highway 5 by othello was caused by a vehicle that caught fire

there apparently was a car fire near the coldwater exchange as well.
although, it seems like it was maybe the car at Othello?, and that they closed the highway back at coldwater so people could divert.

[dakoda62]

Got into some guy's face tonight about tossing a cig. Came very close to blows, his comment "its on the pavement it wont burn" little bit of shoving he started it but just the same, sober second thought, never phoned it in. Witnesses saw it both ways, Let it ride he lives in FernBrae retirement home.

[Ferenc]

And just to think we had two Martin Mars water bombers that could have possibly addressed this fire !!

[dakoda62]

Yep and i believe the last one has been sold by Coulson and is heading to a museum in Florida

[Ohwildwon]

And just to think we had two Martin Mars water bombers that could have possibly addressed this fire !!


Geez, I was just thinking the same thing..

[Ferenc]

Another Steve Thomson decision .. We all know about him don't we !!!

[walks with deer]

What about the habitat.
As long as no houses effected I say smoke 3 packs a day and throw er out the window.....

[walks with deer]

I smell improved mule deer range.

[GoatGuy]

What about the habitat.
As long as no houses effected I say smoke 3 packs a day and throw er out the window.....
You bet, 40 years of fire supression is biting BC in the butt, on the wildlife side, property loss and taxpayer dollars.

[walks with deer]

That's right goat guy. Imagine if we had just lit the first pine battle forest.
Instead of harvesting the logs then driving battle infested logs down our highways spreading the cancer and killing the moose.

[Fisher-Dude]

If your house was being burned down you might drop the idea that this particular fire is a good thing. Definitely we need proper burns but the 140 (likely fewer after what happened last night) homes in the middle of this fire need saving.

The Liberals wiped their fat asses with the Filmon report so here we are.

[Vladimir Poutine]

If your house was being burned down you might drop the idea that this particular fire is a good thing. Definitely we need proper burns but the 140 (likely fewer after what happened last night) homes in the middle of this fire need saving.

The Liberals wiped their fat asses with the Filmon report so here we are.

Some of the temperature records have said that it hasn't been like this for bush conditions since '93. The year of the big ones. The Filmon report was a whitewash as to what really happened re the McLure fire. Good luck to all there.

[GoatGuy]

If your house was being burned down you might drop the idea that this particular fire is a good thing. Definitely we need proper burns but the 140 (likely fewer after what happened last night) homes in the middle of this fire need saving.

The Liberals wiped their fat asses with the Filmon report so here we are.

Wouldn't bother me, so long as no one gets hurt. Insurance will take care of things.

[landphil]

Some of the temperature records have said that it hasn't been like this for bush conditions since '93. The year of the big ones. The Filmon report was a whitewash as to what really happened re the McLure fire. Good luck to all there.

You mean '03, right?

[Fisher-Dude]

Wouldn't bother me, so long as no one gets hurt. Insurance will take care of things.

Of course it wouldn't bother you. You have no skin in the game. Friends of mine who have homes up there, who worked their asses off to build their dreams, would disagree with you.

When we put the catastrophic loss of one's home and all that they've worked for ahead of a few whitetail does who might find a bit of extra browse, we've lost sight of things.

One day you'll own a home. Might alter your perspective a bit.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Of course it wouldn't bother you. You have no skin in the game. Friends of mine who have homes up there, who worked their asses off to build their dreams, would disagree with you.

When we put the catastrophic loss of one's home and all that they've worked for ahead of a few whitetail does who might find a bit of extra browse, we've lost sight of things.

One day you'll own a home. Might alter your perspective a bit.


YUP ! I would be Absolutely Devastated if my Home - Yard & Shop burned up :sad: - so much Good Stuff and hard work put in and those big beautifull 200-300 year Old Fir trees etc ! jmo RJ

[Iron Glove]

Wouldn't bother me, so long as no one gets hurt. Insurance will take care of things.

Yup as you go thru maybe a year of negotiations, building, replacing your lost goods, living in a Motel then returning to you nice new house that has no memories.
Add in that your lot and likely your whole neighbourhood has been deforested .
Yup, no bother, I'm alright Jack.

[GoatGuy]

Of course it wouldn't bother you. You have no skin in the game. Friends of mine who have homes up there, who worked their asses off to build their dreams, would disagree with you.

When we put the catastrophic loss of one's home and all that they've worked for ahead of a few whitetail does who might find a bit of extra browse, we've lost sight of things.

One day you'll own a home. Might alter your perspective a bit.


That's all part of living in the interface.

Everyone who lives in the country runs that risk.

[Fisher-Dude]

That's all part of living in the interface.

Everyone who lives in the country runs that risk.

Yes they do. But I don't wish devastation in their lives because I want to see wildlife habitat improved.

Just because we're failures at getting our government to do what we want with controlled burns doesn't mean we should take our frustrations out on those who choose to live in the peace and solitude of nature.

[Fisher-Dude]

Smoker caused probably. Throw em in prison if caught.


And you know this how???

The 80 hectare fire burning in the Joe Rich area today has led to the evacuation of 141 properties in the area and over 150 properties are currently on alert.

John Fergus, a resident of the area and evacuee, said the fire was started by a cigarette.

“My son-in-law … Matt, is the second one at the fire," Fergus said. "He thought, ‘well I better stop and have a look.’

Fergus said there was a small area on fire, that started burning off in two separate directions quickly.

“So here’s the cigarette, it took off and he said he didn’t know which 30 feet to try to put out and while he was thinking of it, it’s too late, the trees started to candle. So that’s how fast it was.”

[rocksteady]

I will wait for the official investigation thanks.

Not a Metre of shoulder on any bc road that does not have a ciggy butt laying there.

[Fisher-Dude]

Smoker caused probably. Throw em in prison if caught.


I will wait for the official investigation thanks.

Not a Metre of shoulder on any bc road that does not have a ciggy butt laying there.

Yeah, who would ever think that a smouldering cigarette in dry grass that the first guy on the scene finds is evidence of anything?

I won't believe any "official" bullshit from Ministry personnel. They know who and what started another massive fire here in 2009, but won't say a peep because of fear of cultural backlash.

[rocksteady]

About 10 years ago the fire chiefs of Canada approached the tobacco industry with a concern of people dying in house fires due to unattended smokes. In return, the industry changed the chemical composition so that cigarettes are not self sustaining. Light a smoke, put it in an ashtray and within a minute or so it self extinguished. Unless you are suckling on it, it usually goes out.

It is under very limited conditions that a discarded cigarette will cause a wildfire (I have the info on my work computer and can post it on monday)

Over the years, a lot of fires were attributed to discarded smokes, but that was just the easy answer. Since we have started doing proper training and investigations, we are finding smokes less responsible for fires.

I am not saying tossing your butt out the window will not cause a fire. I am saying a proper investigation needs to be done to confirm...so, don't toss your butt is a good preventative measure, but they are not s dangerous as most think...

[Fisher-Dude]

Wonder if the dude that started the McLure fire with his cigarette still suckles those things?

[rocksteady]

Wonder if the dude that started the McLure fire with his cigarette still suckles those things?

Remember, that was 2003, prior to the chemical change....

I am not condoning butt tossing... just trying to inform what I know from science and research

[Fisher-Dude]

The "fire-safe" cigarette standard in Canada states that they must only burn their full length unattended in only 25% of tested smokes.

25% of the time the full length WILL burn. What percentage of time does half the smoke burn? How long does a smoke need to light dead grass in 38C heat with a nice breeze blowing?


Canada
On October 1, 2005, Canada became the first country to implement a nationwide cigarette fire safety standard. The law requires that all cigarettes manufactured in or imported into Canada must burn their full length no more than 25% of the time when tested using ASTM International method E2187-04: Standard Test Method for Measuring the Ignition Strength of Cigarettes. The law is based on the New York State legislation. Each year in Canada, fires started by smokers' materials kill approximately 70 people and cause 300 injuries, according to a study conducted by the Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs.

[rocksteady]

Like I stated, I will get you specifics on Monday

[Vladimir Poutine]

Wonder if the dude that started the McLure fire with his cigarette still suckles those things?

The really sickening part about that is that the guy who started the fire called it in. It was dealt with. Then Fire Protection dropped the ball. The rest of the damage to Barriere and all that property loss was completely avoidable. I was there that day. It was a no brainer that something bad was about to happen.

[Big Lew]

Some things to consider about tossed cigarettes is it likely isn't just one isolated
butt flung out a window, but several before one starts a fire. Additionally, tossing
a butt out a window isn't like setting it in an ashtray. The winds associated with
the butt flung out of a moving vehicle, and even the winds from passing vehicles
can produce the same effect as sucking on the cigarette in the first place, keeping
it lit long enough to start a fire in hot conditions. Unless the scientists put this
into their assessment when introducing these new measures limiting how long
a cigarette will burn, it really has limited effect in the real world associated to
cigarettes being tossed out a moving vehicle.

[rocksteady]

I will post specifics on Monday... stay tuned

[Sofa King]

Remember, that was 2003, prior to the chemical change....

I am not condoning butt tossing... just trying to inform what I know from science and research

well, you kinda are by arguing that it's not that bad.
it just makes sense that tossing burning things out a window is not a good idea.
not every abandoned campfire creates a forest fire either, but it's pretty stupid to not fully extinguish a campfire before leaving.

if a spark from a cat track in a logging area can start a fire, then a tossed cigarette can start one pretty easy as well.

[rocksteady]

I am not arguing the point, just trying to inform...

[Gateholio]

Thanks Rocksteady

It will be interesting to learn what started the fire, and hopefully we learn something.

[rocksteady]

Let's play with numbers....
4 million people in BC
Stats show 25% of the population smokes.

Let's say, on average, they smoke 20 smokes per day....

Thats 20 million smokes per day.

Let's say 20 percent toss their butt. ..

That is 1 million butt per day tossed out of windows...

We do not get 1 million fires per day....
Therefore, stats show that cigarettes do not cause as many fires as people suspect

[rocksteady]

Bad math... 4 million butt per day out of vehicles

[Sofa King]

I think the reason people so easily assume a lot of these roadside fires are very likely caused by a tossed cig is because of how we constantly see this happening every moment of our drives.
of course, simply a piece of broken glass having the sun shine through it could be a culprit as well.
regardless, it's a moot point.
the cause means nothing now.

[rocksteady]

Most butt tossed out of cars get sucked into the vortex of wind and end up in the middle of the pavement (at speeds greater than 60 km/h) it's scientifically proven...

[rocksteady]

Broken glass will not cause a fire... it must be a convex glass that focuses the suns rays... another falacy...

[Sofa King]

Bad math... 4 million butt per day out of vehicles
still bad math.
at least half or more of those butts are at work and home.
that leaves a much smaller percentage being tossed from vehicles.
and of those, if they are in the concrete jungle, they may as well be in an ashtray.

[rocksteady]

Drove thru the area the other day, they *highways contractor...we're mowing the shoulders... it could be the cause

[Sofa King]

Broken glass will not cause a fire... it must be a convex glass that focuses the suns rays... another falacy...

isn't the bottom of some bottles concave and convex?

[rocksteady]

still bad math.
at least half or more of those butts are at work and home.
that leaves a much smaller percentage being tossed from vehicles.
and of those, if they are in the concrete jungle, they may as well be in an ashtray.
K, so even 1 million tossed per day....still not 1 M fires per day...

[rocksteady]

isn't the bottom of some bottles concave and convex?

No, they are not...

[rocksteady]

Lemme say it again... I am not condoning tossing smokes, I am just saying it is not as dangerous as most believe...

[rocksteady]

I have investigated hundreds of wildfires in my 34 year career... you gotta take my word on this... :)

[Whonnock Boy]

BS!!! We will not stand for this and take your so called expert opinion, for this is the intraweb, and we can/should/will come to our own conclusions. Got it??? :lol:


I have investigated hundreds of wildfires in my 34 year career... you gotta take my word on this... :)

[Big Lew]

I'm not suggesting that you're in any way wrong at all. Each single cigarette
butt has probably such a low percentage of being able to start a fire if tossed
out a window as you say, but within such a high volume the possibilities increase.
As an example, under the right conditions we can start a fire with flint and steel.
It usually takes a great many strikes, all producing sparks, before one of those
sparks lights the tinder.

[Fisher-Dude]

Lemme say it again... I am not condoning tossing smokes, I am just saying it is not as dangerous as most believe...

If that were so, the law wouldn't have been changed a few years ago to jack the fines for tossing butts.

I already posted the Canadian standard for cigarettes. 25% of them can burn fully without sucking on them.

Despite your funky math that assumes all kinds of things, it's been proven that smokes tossed from cars start forest fires, just like this Joe Rich fire.

[rocksteady]

BS!!! We will not stand for this and take your so called expert opinion, for this is the intraweb, and we can/should/will come to our own conclusions. Got it??? :lol:

Got it..........

[REMINGTON JIM]

Lemme say it again... I am not condoning tossing smokes, I am just saying it is not as dangerous as most believe...

BULLSHIT ! 2 fires Years apart outside of Vernon on the way to Falkand were BOTH started by tossed cig butts and in the same SPOT too ! :mad: RJ

[Sitkaspruce]

For all those who THINK a cigarette will cause a fire when thrown out the window, here are the facts;

Physical Characteristics

- Interior core temp is between 738-838 degrees C
- Exterior tip temp 300-648 degrees C
- Cigarettes will shrink up to 20%
- Lifts up and away from the fuel bed
- Linear progression of burn limits exposure to 1-2 minutes
-
Environmental Factors - the ones we need to know for a fire to start

- Finely particulate fuel bed
- Loose fuel arrangement
- Fuel moisture of <14% (with a Fine Fuel Moisture Content >90)
- 26 degrees C or higher
- Relative Humidity of 22% or less

Physical placement factors

- 30+% of the glowing tip in contact with fuel bed
- Tip oriented into wind
- Tip burrowed or down slope
- Roadside starts will generally be on or within a few meters of the road edge
- Vortex effect

Cigarettes can be a competent ignition source, however, as you can see, a complex set of ignition factors must be present before this can occur.

Yes they do start fires and have, but the conditions have to be just about perfect and that rarely happens. Brake liners, catalytic converters, exhaust system particles and gasoline and diesel carbon are more likely to cause road side fires. I can post up more info on these if needed.

So, although quite easy to say "it had to be a smoker that started the fire" there is a lot of factors that come into play when there is a fire.

Was doing this for a while and have yet to find a cigarette as the "smoking gun"........

Hopefully the local FD and others did not trample the site origin, makes the job a lot easier if they stayed away.

Cheers

SS

[Big Lew]

I have personally put out small fires in the close proximity of fishing lake access,
duck hunting swamp-lakes, and in bark mulch flower beds. None could have been
started by neglected campfires, glass bottles etc, or lightning. (I have seen the
evidence of many lightning started fires) They all seemed either caused by
a tossed cigarette or match and seemed to have smoldered for quite some time until
actually becoming a blaze. The two in bark mulch still had the cigarette visible where
the smoldering fire began. As I said before, maybe the chances are slim, but if you
throw enough of them into tinder, sooner or later one is going to ignite.

[Walksalot]

The only place it should be acceptable to toss cigarette butts out the vehicle window should be in a enormous tract of beetle killed forest far from any structures.

[one-shot-wonder]

The only place it should be acceptable to toss cigarette butts out the vehicle window should be in a enormous tract of beetle killed forest far from any structures.

Like the Ashnola......couple of fires currently burning down there. Mother nature is doing her best to keep bighorns on those mountains for generations to come.....humans are doing there best to not!!!! (domestic sheep farms and fire suppression)

[one-shot-wonder]

Joe Rich fire is all but out. Not a large fire at 55ha, no homes or structures destroyed. Not the highest value habitat with houses and highway close by but good for regenerating the grassland and inhibiting conifer ingrowth.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Like the Ashnola......couple of fires currently burning down there. Mother nature is doing her best to keep bighorns on those mountains for generations to come.....humans are doing there best to not!!!! (domestic sheep farms and fire suppression)

The fire at 24km on Ashnola FSR is currently at 0% containment, 100 hectares and is burning on the north side of the river and is burning North.
20 member crew on it.

[OutWest]

The fire at 24km on Ashnola FSR is currently at 0% containment, 100 hectares and is burning on the north side of the river and is burning North.
20 member crew on it.

Spotted to the south side of the river today..

[boxhitch]

Newby and now Ashnola , sheep gods at work ?

[one-shot-wonder]

Hoping it can track in a NE direction to Crater Mt. as man y are well aware, been plans to burn that mountain for years and years with no action. Maybe, just maybe mother nature will take it on herself.

With 2+ months left of fire season there might be a chance. My guess is if the winds stay down, with many small fires getting mopped up this weekend they will put a large force on the 24km fire. If mother nature has her way it wont matter.......sounds like fixed wings cant access the area so far.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Spotted to the south side of the river today..

The amount of standing dead timber to the south in the park is astonishing. If it goes, it won't stop burning until September.
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