GO fined for killing Yukon sheep

[cuervosail]

I know there was an earlier thread about this. Sentence was handed down last week.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/b-c-hunters-convicted-by-own-photos-13-years-later-1.3096033

[Fisher-Dude]

This is separate from the Dougan incident, but seems to have a similar storyline.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Glad to hear they took the high route once caught.

Thd higher profile guy in the other case should take note

[srupp]

Hmmmm dandy looking rams..too bad on yet another situation...the Yukon rams that dont cross the border by hunting presdure, ptedators or greener pstures were just too much to resist..
Just too far ? To be an accident...the guide must have known..or should have known..
No wonder the C.O s up there stressed to us repeatadly..once near that border be certain..use gps..
Srupp

[jtred]

I realize it's hard to orient yourself with pinpoint accuracy, especially before the advent of GPS but 14km is a bit far to be called a mistake. I would hope as a guide he would have some ability to navigate in the mountains. Or maybe the mistake was getting caught?

[Fisher-Dude]

Google Earth strikes again?

Sure seems to be a number of these GO types who are either a.) bad navigators, or b.) so trophy-oriented that they will kill at any cost to showcase their prowess, in my opinion.

Anyone want to add to the postulation list?

[dedapair]

$7500 fine seems a bit of a joke considering what they charge for a hunt.

[Ride Red]

The monetary gain still outweighs the fine and won't stop this from happening again.

[scoutlt1]

Google Earth strikes again?

Sure seems to be a number of these GO types who are either a.) bad navigators, or b.) so trophy-oriented that they will kill at any cost to showcase their prowess, in my opinion.

Anyone want to add to the postulation list?

If it's "a", they shouldn't be a guide....
I'd say "b" is the "better" answer.

Let's be honest. There are tons of businesses/industries that constantly evaluate the risk of fines vs potential return. For many companies it's just the cost of doing business.

[Chango]

$7500 fine seems a bit of a joke considering what they charge for a hunt.

What are they charging for a dalls hunt?

[Cyrus]

joke of a fine...the GO is laughing at this just like they laugh at resident hunters...

[Stone Sheep Steve]

More.....

http://www.whitehorsestar.com/News/hunters-said-they-didn-t-know-they-were-in-yukon

[40incher]

This is separate from the Dougan incident, but seems to have a similar storyline.


Just for clarity, what is the "Dougan incident" ??

[Fisher-Dude]

Just for clarity, what is the "Dougan incident" ??

That would be this http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?108791-Interesting-Court-Case

[Seeker]

What are they charging for a dalls hunt?
$35000 or better.

[Caribou_lou]

40incher you don't know the Dougan incident?! And you should be asking what are the Dougan "Incidents"

[Caribou_lou]

$35000 or better.

Not that steep for a Dall. I'm thinking a little over $20,000.

[BromBones]

I like the excuse, "We didn't have proper maps", and weren't familiar with northern BC. :)

Horseshit.

[Fisher-Dude]

When I read the defense submissions in some of these cross-border cases, I feel that my intelligence is insulted if I'm expected to believe them as they are published in the news reports.

Perhaps I'm too cynical. Judges should be smarter than I, so I don't know why piddly fines are given for egregious acts. Good thing I didn't join the judiciary, I guess.

[.264winmag]

I know every time I've gone into a new area I've looked at every resource possible to get an idea of where to target. Can't see it being any different in them parts. Only an idiot goes into the mountains not knowing where they're going or where they'll be. So they're not sure where they were actually hunting at the time but they could remember where they were as soon as someone pointed it out? I don't think they're idiots, rather savvy hunters that went to where the sheep were. 14km in the mountains is a long ways IMO.

[wideopenthrottle]

I know every time I've gone into a new area I've looked at every resource possible to get an idea of where to target. Can't see it being any different in them parts. Only an idiot goes into the mountains not knowing where they're going or where they'll be. So they're not sure where they were actually hunting at the time but they could remember where they were as soon as someone pointed it out? I don't think they're idiots, rather savvy hunters that went to where the sheep were. 14km in the mountains is a long ways IMO.
that is the big point here,,they were 14 km outside of their area...so how many did they take from 1,2,5,10 km before they decided they had to go as far as 14km...these things have a way of happening gradually until you are way past the "grey line"...

[GoatGuy]

Poachers, poachers, poachers, poachers.

His guide-outfitter certificate should be gone

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Doesn't say what lake they landed at and what direction they hiked from there. If the were 14kms inside the Yukon when they killed their rams I would guess that they either landed in the Yukon near the border or just inside the BC border. That should give them a pretty good reference point on where they were.
Don't really buy their defense.

I wonder if the Dougan case is chewing up more resources than they would to spend and they decided a guilty plea here would save some money??

SSS

[325 wsm]

dissapointing for sure. they are basically saying it is cheaper to poach an animal than hunt it. Dall sheep hunt @ $20,000……Dall sheep poaching $7500…….priceless

[Chango]

I wonder how many times he had been dipping into the Yukon sheep before getting caught for this one.

[325]

I have spent a lot of times in the mountains using topographic maps (while hiking, hunting and when I used to work for the Forest Service). Using appropriate maps, I always know where I am within a kilometer (usually much better than that). It is inconceivable that the GO was lost or confused, especially since he would have a clear idea where his territory boundaries are located.

The GO was poaching Yukon sheep, plain and simple. It is utterly baffling to me that he is allowed to maintain his license and territory.....

[Gateholio]

In this case, they made a deal, were allowed to say they were lost, and received a pretty light sentence. They must have known they were guilty and didn't want to risk a much more costly fine/hunting restriction and pointless legal fees.

[hardnocks]

but was the client guilty ? he louses his mount plus the money he paid the guide . hopefully he sue`s the outfitter for big bucks .

[325]

but was the client guilty ? he louses his mount plus the money he paid the guide . hopefully he sue`s the outfitter for big bucks .

If I were the client, I would be PISSED!!

[325 wsm]

In the Yukon it is illegal to hunt while guiding a client (so guide cant sell there tags to the hunter basically). I always assumed that that law was also a BC one. Anyone know for sure ?

[Fisher-Dude]

This case seems to me to have an extra twist to it, because the guide and the client appear to be from the same town (well, close). Lumby and Cherryville are about as far apart as the time to smoke a Cherryville doobie.

Was it a regular client/guide relationship of hiring a guide, or a couple of buddies using GO quota? Both are legal but the latter would, to my mind, put even more onus on the "client" to be aware of his location, notwithstanding the fact that I believe a client is culpable if he blindly follows a guide, too.

[.264winmag]

C'mon FD, we don't roll pinners. Make it to Vernon before it burns your fingers! lmao
interesting to hear that though

[sheep hunter]

I believe that the two had LEH sheep permits for BC that year.... The guide in question did not have a concession in northern BC at the time of the hunt. The guides concession at the time was in Lumby/ Cherryville

[Fisher-Dude]

I believe that the two had LEH sheep permits for BC that year.... The guide in question did not have a concession in northern BC at the time of the hunt. The guides concession at the time was in Lumby/ Cherryville

I dunno. Although the media doesn't always get it right, the CBC says this:


Court was told Scott Mackenzie, a B.C.-based big game outfitter and guide, chartered a plane in August 2002 to fly south out of Whitehorse to the west end of Bennett Lake, somewhere near the B.C./Yukon border.

Soon after Mackenzie and his client, Michael Makasoff, each killed a Dall sheep.

That makes me think my post above has an answer.

[sheep hunter]

I dunno. Although the media doesn't always get it right, the CBC says this:

He does have a hunting concession up north currently but at the time he was only in Lumby

[GoatGuy]

I believe that the two had LEH sheep permits for BC that year.... The guide in question did not have a concession in northern BC at the time of the hunt. The guides concession at the time was in Lumby/ Cherryville
I think this is probably accurate.

The irony of this situation is tremendous given the background.

[M.Dean]

"Don't take "Field Pictures" of your Ram's"!!! What part of this is so dam hard to understand???

[mountainman]

Shouldn't this be in the Hunting outside BC forum......

[Eastbranch]

"Don't take "Field Pictures" of your Ram's"!!! What part of this is so dam hard to understand???

Funny I thought the message was dont poach YT sheep???

[curt]

sad part is I bet the bill for the investigation and court case is 4-5 times what the fine is
$7500 fine seems a bit of a joke considering what they charge for a hunt.

[KodiakHntr]

Isn't Mackenzie the outfitter thats tried to bluff resident hunters out of his zone?

[wrenchhead]

This Mackenzie fellow Is one of 'those' guilds that give the rest of them bad names, even before learning about this case.

[Fisher-Dude]

Isn't Mackenzie the outfitter thats tried to bluff resident hunters out of his zone?


This Mackenzie fellow Is one of 'those' guilds that give the rest of them bad names, even before learning about this case.

What's the scoop on this?

[wrenchhead]

He has quite a reputation for thinking he owns every animal and square inch of land in his North ok/ west koot guilding area. No matter who's land he's trespassing on or who's hunt he's interfereing with.

[FirePower]

sad part is I bet the bill for the investigation and court case is 4-5 times what the fine is

Conservation Officers, Judges and Crown Prosecutors are paid on salary I believe. Consequently, they would have been getting paid anyway, I doubt there was much in the way of extra expenses incurred except for the defendants.

[40incher]

He has quite a reputation for thinking he owns every animal and square inch of land in his North ok/west koot guilding area. No matter who's land he's trespassing on or who's hunt he's interfereing with.


So, basically he's just like most of the other Crispy donators!! B.C. is up for sale ... just make a "donation" and board the train!

[REMINGTON JIM]

[QUOTE=Fisher-Dude;1645807

Was it a regular client/guide relationship of hiring a guide, or a couple of buddies using GO quota? Both are legal but the latter would, to my mind, put even more onus on the "client" to be aware of his location, notwithstanding the fact that I believe a client is culpable if he blindly follows a guide, too.[/QUOTE]

They are BUDDIES ! i know of Both of them - But be CLEAR - they are NOT my Friends :icon_frow RJ

[boxhitch]

Corrections
An earlier version of this story incorrectly said that Scott Mackenzie was guiding Michael Makasoff when the illegal hunt occurred. In fact, he was not. This story has also been altered to add more context around how the hunters ended up inside the Yukon border. The CBC apologizes for the error.Its the pilots fault

[GoatGuy]

Its always the pilots fault.

certainly all 14 kms worth.:.. Makes one wonder where the x on the spot was put for the compulsory inspection. Speaking of compulsory inspections hmmmm

[Fred1]

Ya been following this one... 14 km is way too far off to be a mistake. I know one of those guys and Im sad to say hes not that stupid to be that far off by mistake. Maps, gps bla bla bla... They went for it, plain and simple... $7500 bucks, some bad publicity in your hometown/hunting community and the forfeit of the rams is/are a pretty good punishments. This was not a paid GO hunt, so there was no $30,000 price tag on that hunt. So to me the fine is pretty sound. Sad guys.... just sad...

[.300WSMImpact!]

Ya been following this one... 14 km is way too far off to be a mistake. I know one of those guys and Im sad to say hes not that stupid to be that far off by mistake. Maps, gps bla bla bla... They went for it, plain and simple... $7500 bucks, some bad publicity in your hometown/hunting community and the forfeit of the rams is/are a pretty good punishments. This was not a paid GO hunt, so there was no $30,000 price tag on that hunt. So to me the fine is pretty sound. Sad guys.... just sad...

cant agree, I would say the fine would have to hurt the pocket book, and if its a $30,000 hunt it should be at least half that in fine for a professional hunter, because it was a calculated plan and not a mistake, just my 2 cents

[Fred1]

The CBC article said it wasn't a paid/guided hunt - or Scott wasn't guiding at the time of the hunt... If the hunt had been under any GO it may have been different and the name of the GO would probably have been attached to the article. Just two egos pushing the boundaries...