180gr vs 150gr or 165 gr

[ekul246]

I am currently shooting 180gr Federal Fusion out of my Remington 700 30-06. Shoots great. I can get 3/4" groups at 100m over sandbags. They pack a big kick, but with my limbsaver recoil pad I can shoot all day. The recoil isn't the issue. Here is the reason why I am thinking of changing grains:
I have a 4x Swarovski scope that came on the rifle when my father-in-law permanently loaned it to me. I initially sighted it in using 180gr because I wanted to be prepared for anything. According to the ballistics on the box, the bullet drop at 200yds is a little over 4" and at 300 is 14". I know that switching to a lighter grain will give me a faster bullet and therefore less bullet drop within 300. I'm wondering if it is worth switching. I know that I can nail my target up to 200yds because of the known bullet drop, though this is based off the ballistics written on the box and I should try at the range to make sure. Though with my 3/4" groups at 100m I feel pretty confident. I don't plan on making any shots longer than and preferably will make shots no farther than 200m. With the set magnification, it's pretty much impossible to compensate for drop when it's 4" at 200m. If I was to take a shot up to 300m, I figure putting my crosshairs on the top of the back would get my bullet where I want it. Scope upgrade is not an option right now either. Will the flight of 150 or 165 grain bullets be that much flatter as to warrant ditching the 180s?
Only in the last couple years as I have gotten into hunting on my own after only going out a few times in my teens have I began getting into shooting and ballistics and stuff. Looking forward to your thoughts as I know the experienced guys will be able to provide good info.
There is lots of talk of grains and bullets but I haven't seen anything like this on here yet.
Thanks again.

[rocksteady]

The most ballistic ally stable bullet in the 06, is the 165 grain, however, shoot whatever you feel comfortable with.

I shoot 180 grain pills at all my critters cause I like

1) Heavy for caliber bullets
2) I know that at 300 yards I am only 4 inches low (3 inches high at 100 yards)

[REMINGTON JIM]

The most ballistic ally stable bullet in the 06, is the 165 grain, however, shoot whatever you feel comfortable with.

I shoot 180 grain pills at all my critters cause I like

1) Heavy for caliber bullets
2) I know that at 300 yards I am only 4 inches low (3 inches high at 100 yards)

Hmm ! just wondering how you would know how ballistically stable a bullet is in any cartridge ? Just wondering - School me Please - thks :smile: RJ

[HeadingOutside]

Okay, I don't know much but I do know the answer to this question. I have shot boxes of -06 trying to find the bullet I like. Also, it tends to be fun. Anyway, the answer to this question you've asked is pretty simple. You already answered it. If you're not taking shots longer than 200 and you're dead on at 100 it won't make a major ballistic difference as far as trajectory.
You have a greater chance of human error than the 2-4 inch drop making a difference. BTW, I've found the boxes are usually pretty accurate. If you are comfortable and practised with your rifle then you can make a SLIGHT compensation for the 200 yard shot to put it right between the ribs ;-)
Now, if you're going beyond that we need to have another talk. If you can get by, 180gr is almost always easier to find on the shelf than 165. At least around me.
My 2cents anyway

[ekul246]

The most ballistic ally stable bullet in the 06, is the 165 grain, however, shoot whatever you feel comfortable with.

I shoot 180 grain pills at all my critters cause I like

1) Heavy for caliber bullets
2) I know that at 300 yards I am only 4 inches low (3 inches high at 100 yards)

So Rocksteady, would you suggest sighting in high at 100m as you do yourself?

[ekul246]

Okay, I don't know much but I do know the answer to this question. I have shot boxes of -06 trying to find the bullet I like. Also, it tends to be fun. Anyway, the answer to this question you've asked is pretty simple. You already answered it. If you're not taking shots longer than 200 and you're dead on at 100 it won't make a major ballistic difference as far as trajectory.
You have a greater chance of human error than the 2-4 inch drop making a difference. BTW, I've found the boxes are usually pretty accurate. If you are comfortable and practised with your rifle then you can make a SLIGHT compensation for the 200 yard shot to put it right between the ribs ;-)
Now, if you're going beyond that we need to have another talk. If you can get by, 180gr is almost always easier to find on the shelf than 165. At least around me.
My 2cents anyway
A good 2 cents. What you said is basically what I have been planning since since I have sighted the rifle in. As I said to Rocksteady, perhaps sighting in high, maybe 1" high at 100 would be a good idea? Again with the set magnification, I am trying to get the rifle and my self at a place where I am as comfortable as I can be with any possible shot within my 300m range, 300 being the absolute maximum and every effort being made to bring it to 200m or less.

[325]

With the 180s I would sight in about 2" high at 100 yards. That should put you close to perfect for 200 and maybe only 8 or so inches low at 300.

[Fisher-Dude]

The difference on most ballistic charts for similar bullets in 30-06 from 180s down to 150s is about 4" at 300 yards. That's probably about the width of your crosshairs in a 4x scope at that range.

If I were you, I'd stick with the popular 180s and take shots you're comfortable with.

[hoochie]

Like others have said.. keep the 180gr and I would suggest having the rifle zero'd at 200 as apposed to 100.
practice with the rifle and take the shots at the range you think you may encounter in the bush. learn what it does before it counts!

[vortex hunter]

Like others have said.. keep the 180gr and I would suggest having the rifle zero'd at 200 as apposed to 100.
practice with the rifle and take the shots at the range you think you may encounter in the bush. learn what it does before it counts!

So true At a range alot of the time everything is PERFECT , its good to sight in there but like hoochie said the best place to practice or know exactly what your bullet will do if you do your part is go out and Practice test diff brands of ammo or stick to what you like . Just my 3 cents Vortex

[Ltbullken]

As above, stick with the 180 gr bullet and sight for a 200M zero, so you'd be about 2.5" high at 100M, on at 200 and about 9" low at 300M.

[HeadingOutside]

A good 2 cents. What you said is basically what I have been planning since since I have sighted the rifle in. As I said to Rocksteady, perhaps sighting in high, maybe 1" high at 100 would be a good idea? Again with the set magnification, I am trying to get the rifle and my self at a place where I am as comfortable as I can be with any possible shot within my 300m range, 300 being the absolute maximum and every effort being made to bring it to 200m or less.

You're instincts right off the bat were perfect. If you set it an an inch or two high (that will roughly zero at 200, shoot to confirm) you will nail anything with a ton of force. 180gr are a great bullet, especially what you're using it for. Lots of choice and availability. 165gr can be scarce out in my neck of the woods. Get that rifle to a range (or similar) and just practice. Make sure you would be comfortable taking a 300 yard shot with a 4x power scope. It isn't something I would CHOOSE to do. Stuff starts looking pretty small. Not to say you aren't a pro. Find a good ammunition (Federal Premium- the red box stuff. I use the Noslers) as you're last test shot and you're ready to go. :-)

Lots of great guys on here giving stellar advice. I could talk about 30-06 all day.

Happy hunting!
Devon

[ekul246]

Lots off good advice and opinions. I think I'll follow what most of you seem to think and what I have been thinking a lot which is sighting in at 200. For the set up I have, I think it's the best bet until I am able to upgrade my scope. And definitely try to keep it within the200 range. Especially because as headingoutside said, things start looking pretty small after that.
Thanks a lot and keep the cents coming! Hopefully this thread will help out some other guys as well:lol:

[BgBlkDg]

You DO NOT need an "upgrade" of your scope, a 4x is ideal for the .30-06 with any weight of bullet and is just FINE for shots to 400yds.

Sight 2" high at 100, on at 200, 7-8" drop at 300, 24" drop at 400 and FORGET the bullsh*t about needing some variable, multi-turreted, high mag. scope that will be of lesser optical quality than a Swaro 4x.

That said, IF your Swaro 4x is the recent 1" tubed, alloy bodied model with a plex reticle and in very nice shape, I will be happy to give you a good price for it if you want to sell. I have one gun I need one of these for.

[blu-nsr]

Lots of great pointers everyone! Plain and simple, you have to feed your rifle what IT likes. If you're hitting 3/4 inch groups, stick with the fusions. Not to say don't try anything new, but that's not likely going to be topped with factory ammo. Reloading might eventually but that opens many proverbial cans of worms too! Remember, weight isn't everything. My 300wsm will throw nosler partitions into bugholes but Barnes only get 11/2" groups (same weight, both federal premium). Happy shooting!

[Ltbullken]

The Fusion bullet is a bonded bullet btw, similar to the Nosler Accubond. Nothing wrong with it. A different bonding technology is used to make it but it will hold together well enough on big game especially if you're using heavy for calibre bullets like a 180 gr bullet. If it's as accurate as you say, don't fix what isn't broken. Happy shooting.

[M.Dean]

I also have used the 180 gr bullet most of my life, in ott 6's too, but mainly in the 300 mag's. Reason being, I see lots of animals that have brush between them and me, and the heavier the bullet, the better the chances of hitting exactly where I aimed are. On some shot's, I've had to pick a small area, lets say 2 or 3 inches wide in the bush where my 180 chunk of copper and lead is going to hit the animal and kill it, and if it does hit small twigs etc, the heavier bullet won't stray off like the lighter gr bullets tend to do. But, no matter what grain bullet you chose, take the time to find out how much drop it has at 3, 4 5 and even 6 hundred yards, it's better to find this out at the range, not on some critter that ends up with only three legs because of your bullet drop!

[rocksteady]

Hmm ! just wondering how you would know how ballistically stable a bullet is in any cartridge ? Just wondering - School me Please - thks :smile: RJ

Maybe that did not come out right... fattest trajectory, best accuracy.... hell, I knew what point I was trying to make, now I can't explain it properly

[REMINGTON JIM]

Maybe that did not come out right... fattest trajectory, best accuracy.... hell, I knew what point I was trying to make, now I can't explain it properly

I know exactly what you meant - i was just being a AZZE :lol: LOL I think you meant that the 165 gr was prob a OPTIUM bullet weight to shoot in a 30-06 - the Correct Balance you might say Eh ! :lol: Cheers RJ

[steel_ram]

I'd stay with the 180's. Good for everything! 180's will out perform at longer ranges. 300 meters is not long range. Look up "ballistic coefficient", or check out the sighting in tables in the back of most reloading manuals. From my experience, I'd stay away from traditionally jacketed boat tail bullets for hunting heavy game. I have had a few jacket separations.

[brian]

You are over thinking things. According to federals website 180g SP will drop -15.3" @ 300 yards with a 100 yard zero. 150g will drop 13.6" over the same distance. The difference is less than 2". You'll have about equal problems compensating 15" vs 13" when holding crosshairs over an animal at 300 yards. Keep in mind range estimation gets harder the longer the distances involved. A miscalculation of 50 yards will easily wipe out the 2" difference as both bullets start dropping really fast after that.

(edit) opps I should actually read the rest of the thread, I see your already on board. Zero for 200 and you'll be good. Just get off the bags and shoot like you would in the field.

[Iron Glove]

Have been shooting Fusion 165's in my 700 BDL for years and have found them to be the overall most accurate and as you have noted @ the 180's, a bit easier on the body. BTW, have the same recoil pad on mine, works well.
I have no intentions of shooting beyond 200 m, other than at the range so it all works for me.
Now being 98% retired and the range 5 minutes from the cabin, might do some load development for fun.
Hmm, it's sunny and warm here today, should I head to the range or work on the lawn, hmmm. :)

[BRvalley]

for what you want to do, adjusting your sight in would be simplest and all you need, google up "maximum point blank range".....in my 300wsm I'm 2.5" high at 100

if you are interested to stretch your distance at the range, pretty sure you can get an elevation turret for your swaro depending on which model/how old

[rocksteady]

I know exactly what you meant - i was just being a AZZE :lol: LOL I think you meant that the 165 gr was prob a OPTIUM bullet weight to shoot in a 30-06 - the Correct Balance you might say Eh ! :lol: Cheers RJ


You got me.... argh...

[REMINGTON JIM]

You got me.... argh...

Your a good Sport ! :razz: LOL RJ

[ekul246]

Thanks again for all the input. Glad to get some opinions on the set magnification too. Don't know anybody who has it besides myself.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Oh by the way i like Hornady 150 gr SST bullets out of my 24" barrel at 3000 fps + - :lol: RJ

[dbergen69]

The table below is from Chuckhawks.com http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

Thissupports most of what has already been said. There is not much differnce in trajectory out to 300 yards. The maximum point blank range (+/- 3") is 4 yards more with 165gr and 18 yards more with 150gr compared to 180gr. To maximize point blank range you should be 2.7" high at 100 yards. This would put you a maxium of 3" high at 125 yards and 3" inches low at 269 yards. This should be good to hold right on your target from 0 yards out 269 yards and a little higher at 300 yards, assuming deer sized animials or larger.

My personal preference is for the 165 gr, always in a premium bullet, but there is not any really good reason to pick this weight.



Cartridge (Wb@MV)
Bullet BC
100 yds.
200 yds.
MRT@yds.
MPBR (yds.)


30-06 (150 BT at 2910)
0.435
+2.6"
+2.0"
3"@145
287


.30-06 (165 Sp at 2800)
0.410
+2.7"
+1.7"
3"@135
273


.30-06 (180 Sp at 2700)
0.483
+2.7"
+1.5"
3"@125
269