Biologists seek clues to B.C. moose deaths

[Ohwildwon]

Population decline sparks state-of-the-art research
In The Van Sun today...

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Biologists+seek+clues+moose+deaths/11005958/story.html

[Hanrahan]

Interesting read. Is "unregulated hunting" the same as poaching?

[Whonnock Boy]

Could be yes, could be no, as it depends on who the hunters were, and who's perspective it is coming from.


Interesting read. Is "unregulated hunting" the same as poaching?

[Fella]

Cool project. Not surprised at the results though.

[300rum700]

Interesting read. Is "unregulated hunting" the same as poaching?

Only if your white.

[adriaticum]

It pissed me right off. What is "unregulated hunting". Should use proper vocabulary.
Now every dumbass is going to say we therefore need more regulations.

[Bugle M In]

yup, pissed me off too...
the none hunter, most of LM's, will now take that as us, the ethical hunter, killing off all the Moose.
And if it was a whitey problem, it would have been stated as a Poaching problem.
But "Unregulated Hunting", is just someone in the government, spinning the term from Native to Unregulated!
We are really starting to get shafted by our politicians, and there is no end in site!
And sadly, wildlife is just as much the loser in all this, as we the resident hunter.
Moose populations are dropping, and due to political correctness, everyone is making circles around the real problem.
Yes, great, we the taxpayer are paying for all these studies, but in the end, the wrong fix will be implemented to correct it.
More closures on the way I suspect, and meanwhile the problem will continue to operate behind these closures, and due to that,
Moose will still continue to get s*** kicked.
Sad and Infuriating, at least for me.

[Fisher-Dude]

In the small sample so far, wolves are 300% more a factor in moose predation than unregulated hunting.

Have those who are vocal on the unregulated hunting factor contacted their MLA with 300% more vigour about initiating some wolf control?

[Hanrahan]

Wolves have been killing moose for thousands of years. It's a cycle. Too many wolves and the moose population drops, wolves starve and get diseases, birth rates fall and the moose population rebounds. I don't buy into the wolf control argument.
I was more just curious what "unregulated hunting" means. If it's poaching, call it poaching. If it's legally shot by natives, say that. I didn't know we had unregulated hunting. It's not illegal to shoot a moose with a collar, though I wouldn't.

[Fisher-Dude]

Wolves have been killing moose for thousands of years. It's a cycle. Too many wolves and the moose population drops, wolves starve and get diseases, birth rates fall and the moose population rebounds. I don't buy into the wolf control argument.
I was more just curious what "unregulated hunting" means. If it's poaching, call it poaching. If it's legally shot by natives, say that. I didn't know we had unregulated hunting. It's not illegal to shoot a moose with a collar, though I wouldn't.

Wolves have not, however, been around moose for thousands of years with the habitat altered by pine beetle logging. That's the difference. And wolf populations are not dropping due to the alternate prey species like rapidly-expanding whitetailed deer in new habitats.

Unregulated hunting is exactly what it says, hunting without regulations. To have a poacher, you'd need regulations to be broken.

Finally, you missed the important part in the article which says it is imperative that if you're hunting cow moose to shoot a cow with or without these collars. That data will help the bios determine all causes of death.

[Hanrahan]

Wolves have not, however, been around moose for thousands of years with the habitat altered by pine beetle logging. That's the difference. And wolf populations are not dropping due to the alternate prey species like rapidly-expanding whitetailed deer in new habitats.

Unregulated hunting is exactly what it says, hunting without regulations. To have a poacher, you'd need regulations to be broken.

Finally, you missed the important part in the article which says it is imperative that if you're hunting cow moose to shoot a cow with or without these collars. That data will help the bios determine all causes of death.

I saw that. In the regs though it says that the meat may not be safe to eat because of the use of tranquilizers and immobilizers they use to sedate them. That's the only reason I wouldn't shoot one.

I agree that the deer and beetle kill forest have a roll to play, but we can't possibly control the whole ecosystem. I think it's best to let it find a balance. Removing too many wolves at the wrong time will allow the deer to explode even more and cause higher birth rates in the woves. I don't have a problem with wolf culls, but in the long run a balanced ecosystem is the only thing that will work.

[Fisher-Dude]

Balanced ecosystems exist only in the Disney storybooks.

With human influence on all populations, it's imperative that we also take responsibility to manage said populations. We can't have it both ways.

[BgBlkDg]

There is NO ...balance... in any ecosystem, they are in constant flux and change due to the biogeochemical cycles moving in them and the energy inputs flowing through them.

This is basic Ecology, not some fantasy from the leftist "greenies".

I will gladly post professional, scientific sources for my post, as I always do when making factual comments here on the small knowledge I have gained in 63 years of reading and study.

FD is correct, the popular media, ie, Larry Pynn and Steven Hume, are almost always wrong about these issues and there is an agenda happening here in respect of environmental management.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Hmmm. The report states that the majority were killed by wolves. That can't be true. Wolves only kill the sick and old. The one report also indicates that the one moose was being eaten while still alive. That also can't be true as wolves are such noble animals.

[ratherbefishin]

Will not the 'beetle kill' result in new growth and browse for deer,elk and moose?

[Salix]

In 10-15 years the beetle cut areas will be ideal moose habitat, the issue is where do they go to survive in the mean time.

[.330 Dakota]

Moose can survive wolves....Moose cant survive our natives

[Fred1]

In 10-15 years the beetle cut areas will be ideal moose habitat, the issue is where do they go to survive in the mean time.

This....^^

[Sitkaspruce]

The growth will be good, but the roads that have been created are not and never will be, even being deactivated. They will take years to grow any brush/trees and mean while the 4 legged preds will continue to run them, covering twice the country they used to in a short amount of time. Roads are just not used by 2 legged preds.

The only way to really control them is aggressively with a mix of everyone shooting any one they see, trappers concentrating on them like CH does and the gov conducting a wolf kill. It needs to a concentrated effort.

Cheers

SS

[afflicted 1]

yup, pissed me off too...
the none hunter, most of LM's, will now take that as us, the ethical hunter, killing off all the Moose.
And if it was a whitey problem, it would have been stated as a Poaching problem.
But "Unregulated Hunting", is just someone in the government, spinning the term from Native to Unregulated!
We are really starting to get shafted by our politicians, and there is no end in site!
And sadly, wildlife is just as much the loser in all this, as we the resident hunter.
Moose populations are dropping, and due to political correctness, everyone is making circles around the real problem.
Yes, great, we the taxpayer are paying for all these studies, but in the end, the wrong fix will be implemented to correct it.
More closures on the way I suspect, and meanwhile the problem will continue to operate behind these closures, and due to that,
Moose will still continue to get s*** kicked.
Sad and Infuriating, at least for me.


Nailed it...hard

[HarryToolips]

Wolves have not, however, been around moose for thousands of years with the habitat altered by pine beetle logging. That's the difference. And wolf populations are not dropping due to the alternate prey species like rapidly-expanding whitetailed deer in new habitats.

Unregulated hunting is exactly what it says, hunting without regulations. To have a poacher, you'd need regulations to be broken.

Finally, you missed the important part in the article which says it is imperative that if you're hunting cow moose to shoot a cow with or without these collars. That data will help the bios determine all causes of death.
Bingo...I believe it's the fallen timber etc within old growth forests that gives moose the upper edge when fleeing from preds...less cover now than ever I'm sure..

[tigrr]

It is a sad state of affairs when no one is keeping track of the native slaughter. All the cow moose in their traditional land are gone so they road hunt everywhere now. With all the cow moose shot no more calves. End result the moose in their area are gone period.

Soon the will all be gone.

[boxhitch]

So far, 19 collared moose have died: nine were killed by wolves, three by unregulated hunting, three due to starvation, one by a vehicle collision and three due to unknown causes.

Most research projects ask hunters not to shoot a collared animal, but not this one. Researchers need to know the degree to which human hunters are involved in the population declines.

Will it give a difinitive answer ? No
Said human hunters can easily avoid collared moose , and can adjust activities while the study goes on . The study will be valid for the study period only imo
Deactivate roads and quit spraying herbicides , moose don't eat pine trees.

[ratherbefishin]

I wonder if the beetle kill areas that burned will be productive sooner than naturally occurring regeneration?if so,selective burning could be a viable option to increase browse

[Ltbullken]

Well at least there is some glimmer of hope with the possibility that the die-off has stopped or slowed down. I've heard from government sources that there is concern as well about black bear predation on calves. Black bear numbers have been on the steady rise. This collared study certainly helps better understand adult moose mortality but does little as far as I can see to get a handle on calf mortality. Who wants to sign up for collecting bear scat!? :D

[Bugle M In]

Will it give a difinitive answer ? No
Said human hunters can easily avoid collared moose , and can adjust activities while the study goes on . The study will be valid for the study period only imo
Deactivate roads and quit spraying herbicides , moose don't eat pine trees.

Exactly....those "Unregulated Hunters" could actually curtail their activities by NOT shooting those "Collared Moose" for the duration.
Thus, the study will again be inaccurate.
Yes, the study will provide info on wolf kills for sure.
And we all know that more road access due to the beetle kill has not helped the Moose, and has allowed those "Unregulated Hunters" more access as well.
Now knowing what those radio collars are for in this case, will only cause those unregulated hunters to take a second look before they squeeze the trigger....that's all.

[Ltbullken]

Too many bears is the problem! Wolves are a minor factor.
The study area
http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/downloads/Provincial_moose_monitoring_areas_January_22_14.pd f
So far 9 out of 19 collared deaths were attributed to wolves. I would bet that none of the newborn calves were collared. If this is the case the study underway is incomplete/lacking.
NOTES
-a moose population requires at least 25 calves per 100 cows to balance losses of adult moose from natural causes, including predation
Higher calf/cow rates(well over 30) are required to support a sustainable hunter harvest
- bear predation is a major mortality factor for moose calves during the first 6 to 8 weeks of life when they’re most vulnerable.-“Bears track a cow moose that is going to give birth. They will snatch it right out from under the old cow’s tail. Simply put, the more bears we have the less moose we will have.”
-unregulated hunters may avoid killing collared moose for the obvious reason
"Caribou calves can outrun bears in 10 days……..It takes moose calves about five weeks until they can outrun a bear.”
http://www.sitnews.us/0709news/070909/070909_ak_science.html (http://www.sitnews.us/0709news/070909/070909_ak_science.html)

Alaskans kill bears to save moose(recent)“Research indicates that predation by bears is playing a significant role in preventing the moose population from increasing. A wolf control program has been in effect in the unit since 2004 but reducing wolf numbers has not had a noticeable effect on the moose population”
http://www.georgesmithmaine.com/articles/georges-outdoor-news/october/2014/alaskans-kill-bears-save-moose
45 of the 54 newborn calves studied died, mostly killed by bears and only 1 by a wolf or coyote. 7 of the calves were abandoned when calf were collared(the risk of collaring a newborn)
http://www.thesewardphoenixlog.com/story/2012/11/01/local/bears-take-biggest-bite-of-young-moose-population/798.html

2 bear limit!! Let's use it fellow hunters!!

[ratherbefishin]

The big problem is coming out and saying they want to do some preditor control in order to increase the population of caribou,elk,moose ,or deer.If it needs to be done,just do it,don't even involve the media.Why hire trained biologists to manage the wildlife,then defer to a bunch of hippies?Right now there is a big billboard on the way to the Swartz Bay ferry terminal demanding we 'stop killing wolves'and thousands of prople drive by that every day.Why are we inviting every wacko to come out of the woodwork,all they really want is donations from naive people anyway.Nobody mentions the wolf cull is to protect endangered caribou....this is what happens when the general population lives in cities and hadn't got a clue about rural living or sustenance food gathering,and unwrapping a store bought steak from cellophane doesn't qualify.