grizzly defence question

[chinook7]

Lets just say you were doing a solo scouting/hunting trip in august and october in the kootenays. You were spending most of the time at or above the treeline. Would you feel safe with just a 308 (with premium ammo) for grizzly defence? Would you feel like bear spray is "better" if a bear charges over a 308? or would you lug up the short mossberg shotgun as well as safety.

I have never been to that area so I dont know how common grizzly encounters are over there. Every ounce counts on my pack but I dont want to get eaten either.

any suggestions would be helpful.
thanks

(im all over my bear spray maintenance after that moose standoff post)

[Ron.C]

Yes, I would feel absolutely safe with a .308

[monasheemountainman]

don't be scared, just go hunting chances are you wont get killed by one, and if you do, well it saves an elk or deer that you might have shot.

[Ohwildwon]

Can you ever be to careful?

[Sofa King]

being that you are asking, I'd say you kinda feel you should take more.
for that reason alone, what can it hurt.
no such thing as "too much" protection.
it would be foolish to not at least have bear spray.

[chinook7]

I would definitely take bear spray but whats better? Shoot a charging bear with a 308 4 times and hope it doesnt have enough life to harm you or spray it? You can only do one if you are alone.

I just want to know if the above options are reasonable or enough people say "there is no way I would go into that wilderness alone without a shotgun"
I tend to think bear spray first then start shooting is best but what do I know. Ive never been in that situation. Just trying to get some info from you hunting vets.

[Chango]

Lots of studies/trials along with adding up the results of grizz encounters have found bear spray to be far more effective than a rifle.

except for him --> http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?116664-Broken-Bear-Spray

[Pioneerman]

Cant see bear spray ever being more effective than a a gun if it is windy & blowing towards you, then you are laying on ground eyes watering waiting to get eaten. Never seen a wind stronger than a bullet

[Monashee]

get a 4 pack of Karelian bear dogs carry a Jack Russell for back up

[steel_ram]

I'd would opt for a kevlar armoured suit like the ones troopers wore in Star Wars because you never can be too safe. There was a time people went out into the wilderness unarmed and unconcerned. Most made it back OK, though I'm sure more got injured or killed during their drive home. What's so different now? Packing a rifle just because is a PIA.

When talking "Grizzly defense", cartridges, we're talking point blank muzzle velocity/energy, not 300+ meter knock down power. 308 has lots.

[Moose63]

Did some research, and read somewhere that 30-06 would the minimum sized bear gun. 308 is a little on the light side, but I'm (almost) sure it would do the job.


Inside 50 yds, you can fill him full of lead (ie you'd be lucky to get two shots off with a bolt action rifle), but will you be able to stop him in time? Blood can continue circulate long enough in a bear to do some damage. I would think bear spray should be effective, but if a bear is charging at me it's gonna be the rifle.

[Timbow]

In just over 10 years of laying out roads/cut blocks and hunting in thick timber, I have only been charged by 3 Grizzlies and 6 black bears. The closest grizzly charged within 30 yards, I had no time to pull a gun let alone bear spray. Another incident was with a sow grizzly with 2 Cubs. I was hunting for elk and she charged within 50 yards. I had my gun shouldered and on her and was going to give it to her if she got closer, luckily with me shouting I think she realized what I was as I was down wind of her.

personally I found the black bear charges more aggressive with the grizzlies more terrifying.

I do do pack bear spray even when I hunt.

Given what you have, I pack bear spray year round and a defender on scouting.

[ACB]

Not very many firearms have the energy at 25 yards that a 12ga. shotgun has being loaded to to the nuts with a couple slugs and the rest oobuck, the perfect bear spray and you don't have to worry about the wind { nothing worse than not seeing the bear that ate you}.

[.330 Dakota]

Buy 2 cans of "CounterAssault" bear spray, load your .308 heavy, and you will be fine,,,most charges are bluffs,,however bear spray (not deployed into the wind) will stop a grizzly in its tracks,,,CounterAssault is the best...highest amount of capsium,,,2 cans are always recommended,,,

[Cedar Cowgirl]

Lots of studies/trials along with adding up the results of grizz encounters have found bear spray to be far more effective than a rifle.

except for him --> http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?116664-Broken-Bear-Spray

Personally I will reserve pepper for the cooking of bear rather than trusting my life to it. I'd take a 308 with a well constructed bullet any day.

[Foxton Gundogs]

If you are concerned about being charged by a bear( black or grizzly) you need to practise off handed shooting at 25 yards learn your point of aim at that distance. If you are not packing a tag you don't want to pull the trigger on a bear unless it is coming at you at 25 yards or less, outside that distance or a broad side shot the COs don't have much of a sense of humour about such things. if you have to shoot aim at the nose or chin and keep shooting until it doesn't move ant more.

[604ksmith]

Seeing as though I was the guy who posted the Moose incident with spray yesterday, I'll chime in.

I think SofaKing was spot on about commenting on your confidence level given you're already questioning the .308. For that very reason I would take your shotgun loaded with 3 inch slugs. The added weight will be far surpassed by your added sense of confidence, and the extra enjoyment you'll get out of your trip as you won't be looking over your shoulder the entire time. Although, checking your surroundings often is still a smart thing to do.

That being said, and with no experience to back this up...my gut instinct tells me the best strategy would be spray first, and IF you get the chance and are still in imminent danger, shoot to kill second. I just can't see a bear dying quickly enough to stop a potential deadly attack from gunshots, whereas I can see a bear becoming blind or incapacitated by spray almost instantly.

[russm]

Chances are if you're close enough to hit him with bear spray you're probably screwed already, never been much I one of the guys that feels he has to carry the mighty "defender" or have the "camp gun" myself, I figure if I'm already out trying to kill something the gun I have with me should do the job, tossing one gun aside to fumble with one that's attached to my pack doesn't make much sense to me.

[Chango]

It's reaction time and time it takes to take off safety, chamber a round, shoulder the rifle, aiming at a moving target charging 40 miles per hour at you and getting a kill shot vs grabbing a can of spray off your hip. I recall hearing about after a number of serious attacks on hunters being found without a shot fired or cartridge chambered.


Personally I will reserve pepper for the cooking of bear rather than trusting my life to it. I'd take a 308 with a well constructed bullet any day.

[BgBlkDg]

I was born and raised in the Kootenays, have 62+ years of very active bush experience all over northern/western Canada, but, most in the Ks and I was a wilderness BCFS fire L/Oman there and elsewhere in BC/AB for years. I have a LOT of gun and a fair amount of bear experience, usually alone and in places where if injured there could be NO help.

I never carry spray, always carry a small air horn from Can.Tire and usually did not bother to pack a gun. I would not use buckshot, ONLY Brenneke slugs in my 14" Benelli and I would much prefer a .308Win or .30-06 with 180-200 Nosler Partitions to ANY other defence tool, period.

BUT, repeat BUT, you MUST practice with THIS rifle until it is an extension of your hand and when in thick country, carry it cocked and ,locked, IN YOUR HANDS.

Use, THE SAME rifle, always and a sound, tuned CRF is best, one of the light Kimber 84 series would be excellent. NO variable scopes, a Leupold 4x and handle, dry fire EVERY day, while shooting at least 1-2 per week. I did just this for years and never had an issue, but, I don't trust bears.

HTH, simple is best.

[Fred1]

Holy crap... Just take the 308 and the spray and go hunting man!! I work in grizz country all the time, chit sometimes I even hunt them... Now if these bears were out hunting and killing us there wouldn't be a forester, berry picker, tree hugger or grow-op operator left in the Kootenays!! Im not saying bear attacks don't happen, they most certainly do, but don't over think it too much. Get out there pay attention to the signs and keep aware as best you can. Get a little concerned after you pull the trigger and have your game on the ground - this would be a good time to hurry - gut, load and get out! You should be more worried getting in your car everyday and driving to work than getting a bite from a bear. Get out there, be smart, be aware and enjoy it! Oh, if you do have the Kevlar storm trooper suit, I wold wear it - cause that would be soooo cool!!!!!

[jtred]

I live and hunt in the Kootenays (the past eight years anyhow before that it was central foothills country SW of Edson, also grizzly country) and although it pays to be careful you don't need to be paranoid. While scouting pack a defender if you have one, I don't so I pack bear spray. While day hunting I don't always carry bear spray since I already have the rifle, usually in hand. While backpack hunting and camping overnight I always have both bear spray and a rifle. If in the very,very rare case it happens to be a predatory attack at night while I'm snugged up tight in my mummy bag I'm probably screwed, think burrito but the rifle and spray are there in the tent with me. I don't get too worked up about it though when you think about how many thousands of people spend countless hours in the bush each year and how many attacks are there? More likely to get in a car accident on the way to your hunting area or take a tumble down a mountain then be targeted by a bear.

[Pioneerman]

To use spray first and then gun makes no sense, if you are that close, you do not have time to swap to another line of defense. If the wind is blowing in your face, what good is a mist in the air going to do other than affect you, or the taste of you ? And for the above comment on how hard it is to be ready with a firearm, to me that makes little sense. Why have the safety on and no round in the chamber ? To aim at something that is coming straight for you should be easier than crossing your path, so aiming should not be an issue. To think bear spray in a Velcro pouch pulling it out, removing the lock and aiming after the danger gets very close does not seem reasonable . If you are somewhere that you are not allowed firearms, then of course that is only option. I rather fire shot into ground ,making a loud boom to scar off an attack first

[604ksmith]

To use spray first and then gun makes no sense, if you are that close, you do not have time to swap to another line of defense. If the wind is blowing in your face, what good is a mist in the air going to do other than affect you, or the taste of you ? And for the above comment on how hard it is to be ready with a firearm, to me that makes little sense. Why have the safety on and no round in the chamber ? To aim at something that is coming straight for you should be easier than crossing your path, so aiming should not be an issue. To think bear spray in a Velcro pouch pulling it out, removing the lock and aiming after the danger gets very close does not seem reasonable . If you are somewhere that you are not allowed firearms, then of course that is only option. I rather fire shot into ground ,making a loud boom to scar off an attack first

By shooting second, I meant that spray should be good enough. If it isn't AND you have some second miracle chance, then shoot at the bear as it spins somewhere around you in utter pain/blindness.

Spray may not work 100% of the time, but if it works, it's said to work instantly. Even a .458wm won't kill instantly, and thats why I would recommend using spray first.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Seeing as though I was the guy who posted the Moose incident with spray yesterday, I'll chime in.

I think SofaKing was spot on about commenting on your confidence level given you're already questioning the .308. For that very reason I would take your shotgun loaded with 3 inch slugs. The added weight will be far surpassed by your added sense of confidence, and the extra enjoyment you'll get out of your trip as you won't be looking over your shoulder the entire time. Although, checking your surroundings often is still a smart thing to do.

That being said, and with no experience to back this up...my gut instinct tells me the best strategy would be spray first, and IF you get the chance and are still in imminent danger, shoot to kill second. I just can't see a bear dying quickly enough to stop a potential deadly attack from gunshots, whereas I can see a bear becoming blind or incapacitated by spray almost instantly.


It's reaction time and time it takes to take off safety, chamber a round, shoulder the rifle, aiming at a moving target charging 40 miles per hour at you and getting a kill shot vs grabbing a can of spray off your hip. I recall hearing about after a number of serious attacks on hunters being found without a shot fired or cartridge chambered.

I do have a 'bit' of experience and this kind of well meaning info is likely to get a man killed if push actually comes to shove. Here is just one of the flaws. if you are aware of the bear before it charges you have time to ready your rifle and aim, if the charge is not a bluff and enters your 'protection zone' of 25 yds you are set and ready to start firing, most any 1/2 decent shot can hit a 8"x14"(frontal kill zone) area if they are ready to shoot. Same scenario, you have your pepper spray out and ready, you still have to wait till the bear is 5 or 6 yards(effective range of spray) before you can unleash it, that is way to close to stop an adrenalin charged bear moving at full speed. If you are taken by surprise well neither will do you much good.
BBD, you sum it up perfectly.

[Ohwildwon]

If you encounter a charging Boar Grizzly defending a kill, I highly doubt Bear Spray will do jack shit...

[Ambush]

People can speculate and postulate all they want, but the actual evidence from years of compiled data clearly shows that spray results in fewer and less traumatic injuries then whenguns are involved.

Use whatever makes you feel good. But really, what you would use IF you were ever attacked is not evidence that it is better.

Mpotzold should be along any minute now with many cut and paste links to prove me wrong. But all those attacks were included in the study.

[604ksmith]

First off, I like this debate. A lot of good points have been raised.

However, I think we need to make a distinction between a charge, and an attack.

If a bear is 50 yards away and charges, I would agree that most people should shoulder a rifle and get ready to shoot. A rifle, specifically a .308, is both quick enough and powerful enough to kill. It's just a matter of how quick/accurate of a shot you can be in the 2-3 seconds it takes a bear to move 50 yards.

If a bear is already within a very close distance and a charge is really just one lunge away from an attack (physical contact), I would strongly debate that a rifle is too slow, and that the one shot you're likely to rush off isn't worth relying on. In this case, I would therefore recommend spray as with my personal practice, I can locate the spray on my hip, raise it, and be ready to spray in about 1 second. Whether spray works or not, I'm willing to bet it does, and it would almost instantly. Much quicker than blood loss induced unconciousness.

[Foxton Gundogs]

First off, I like this debate. A lot of good points have been raised.

However, I think we need to make a distinction between a charge, and an attack.

If a bear is 50 yards away and charges, I would agree that most people should shoulder a rifle and get ready to shoot. A rifle, specifically a .308, is both quick enough and powerful enough to kill. It's just a matter of how quick/accurate of a shot you can be in the 2-3 seconds it takes a bear to move 50 yards.

If a bear is already within a very close distance and a charge is really just one lunge away from an attack (physical contact), I would strongly debate that a rifle is too slow, and that the one shot you're likely to rush off isn't worth relying on. In this case, I would therefore recommend spray as with my personal practice, I can locate the spray on my hip, raise it, and be ready to spray in about 1 second. Whether spray works or not, I'm willing to bet it does, and it would almost instantly. Much quicker than blood loss induced unconciousness.

1 second is will be about 0.5 seconds to slow sorry but that's a fact if the bear as you said one lunge away, rifle or spray ypu are probably hooped. But as others have said take your 308 and go have fun you have more chance of being killed in a traffic accident on the way to the mountain.

[.330 Dakota]

I will guarantee you that the spray will turn him at a minimum,,,bears usually charge with their mouth wide open,,,spray will suck the oxygen out of them. I know one fellow that had a charging sow actually drop when hit with spray and it gave him enough time to vacate the area. Bear lived, He lived--win/win
Old schoolers say shoot,,,spray does work Ive seen it,,,and its faster than a firearm. Good spray is effective to 25-30 feet,,

[Foxton Gundogs]

I will guarantee you that the spray will turn him at a minimum,,,bears usually charge with their mouth wide open,,,spray will suck the oxygen out of them. I know one fellow that had a charging sow actually drop when hit with spray and it gave him enough time to vacate the area. Bear lived, He lived--win/win
Old schoolers say shoot,,,spray does work Ive seen it,,,and its faster than a firearm. Good spray is effective to 25-30 feet,,

I usually get much closer when seasoning my meat, then again it isn't trying to eat me LOL sorry couldn't resist

[Chango]

https://youtu.be/PExlT-5VU-Y

Dr. Tom Smith has an interesting lecture here, especially his findings around the 40 min mark.

[todbartell]

308 is more than sufficient for big bear at close range. The Hungry Hill grizzly was apparently taken by CO's with a 308. 9' bear, 1000 lbs - *edit - apparently it was shot by 30-06/180gr Bear Claws & 338 Win Mag 225gr Partitions, see 2nd link

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/21191_10152864738582992_4893319822905974568_n.jpg? oh=f8707e8f5e121af80fd2c47568f351ce&oe=55B36551&__gda__=1436881176_31e38b121c979056c28151a7f9302ae e

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/17410_10152864738692992_6936498504395217497_n.jpg? oh=61891ba14d910ccff2c9828d123e09d6&oe=55AA0574&__gda__=1437775165_5b9ede4c36cd697ab73a74eaea4be97 6

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11149258_10152864738657992_1961429848822089889_n.j pg?oh=ec7d9a5984ceb3fcad67297612ca3c6c&oe=55B2A934&__gda__=1437701707_12403ff771f6874c5c3c5ad8aa67c2c 7

http://www.westerncanadiangamewarden.com/S2012Phantom.html

http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/jon-farley/2007/09/phantom-hungry-hill

[Mount zipper]

Hey just a question for you guys I can't figure out how to start a new thread on here.. What do I have to click on?

[todbartell]

Hey just a question for you guys I can't figure out how to start a new thread on here.. What do I have to click on?

when in a sub forum (Mainland, Van. Island, Guns & handloading, off topic etc) click on the button that says '+ Post New Thread' in the top left portion of the page

[Daybreak]

Find the section you want to start the thread in, Mainland British Columbia for example, and scroll to the bottom of the first page in that section. In the lower left corner is the box titled "start new thread". Best rifle or bullet threads are frowned upon, just joking.

[Sofa King]

If you encounter a charging Boar Grizzly defending a kill, I highly doubt Bear Spray will do jack shit...

sure it will, it will nicely season his kill.

[Sofa King]

skip all that other stuff and get one of these.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MEUOW7cERI&feature=player_detailpage

[Sofa King]

this guy was sure a whacko.
haven't heard much of him for quite awhile.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWiPiks1sU&feature=player_detailpage

[Sofa King]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPS2l5fQ55A&feature=player_detailpage

[.330 Dakota]

Sofa King.....I actually know that guy, his name is Troy Hurtubuise, and he is from North Bay Ont,,,and yes he is NUTS.......actually just more of an idiot

[.330 Dakota]

I will guarantee you that the spray will turn him at a minimum,,,bears usually charge with their mouth wide open,,,spray will suck the oxygen out of them. I know one fellow that had a charging sow actually drop when hit with spray and it gave him enough time to vacate the area. Bear lived, He lived--win/win
Old schoolers say shoot,,,spray does work Ive seen it,,,and its faster than a firearm. Good spray is effective to 25-30 feet,,

I usually get much closer when seasoning my meat, then again it isn't trying to eat me LOL sorry couldn't resist

No worries Mate,,Lol........

[604ksmith]

https://youtu.be/PExlT-5VU-Y

Dr. Tom Smith has an interesting lecture here, especially his findings around the 40 min mark.


Great video, I'm 42 minutes in and fully immersed.

I think he's making a very strong and well developed statement for bear spray being much more user friendly and effective.

[Sofa King]

Sofa King.....I actually know that guy, his name is Troy Hurtubuise, and he is from North Bay Ont,,,and yes he is NUTS.......actually just more of an idiot

holy F, you deafened me.
was he ever serious, or just looking for attention?
he must be a city boy because he doesn't seem to know how ferocious a grizzly can be.
a grizz would have that suit torn to pieces in no time.
although, I see his last version was able to shoot bearspray from the forearm. haha.

[scoutlt1]

What you need is a "bear bell". Those little suckers work unbelievably well!! ;)

Seriously though.....

If I'm "scouting", I'd pack my Defender and spray.
If I'm "hunting", I'd have my .308 and spray.
Does spray work? That debate can and will go on forever...but if you don't have it with you at a "bad" time, you may never know the answer.

As has been stated before. Get out there and enjoy the wilderness. Your odds of being mauled by a bear, statistically, are low. Especially if you keep your head up, stay aware, use common sense, and don't do stupid s**t.
Carry the rifle that you are comfortable with. Of course a .308 is a bit "light" for a grizz, but it works. It doesn't "work" though, if you haven't shot a million rounds through it, can cycle the action as easily and quickly as picking your nose or scratching your ba**s.
Speaking of ba**s, you'll want yours to harden up perhaps. Or maybe not....I don't know.
A grizzly can come at you at more than 50 feet in a second. That is a "one one thousand". Go ahead, try and decide if the rifle or spray would work better in that amount of time. That bear wants to kill you, and has teeth, claws, and oh yeah.....it wants to kill you.

The most important "weapon" anyone can carry, is his/her mind.

Stay calm, stay alert, and practice shooting that .308!

oh and yeah...get out there and enjoy yourself!!!! :)

[russm]

I like the air horn idea more than the bear spray, too many variables with the spray, wind speed, bear speed, wind direction etc, their could be no wind when you're ready to shoot it and the next second when you pull the trigger on the spray a gust of wind could come up and blow it back in your face. I would think an air horn would surprise it a lot more and probably atleast cause it to back off a bit then if necessary shoot it til you can't shoot no more.

[.330 Dakota]

He was mauled by a black bear when he was young,,hence his quest. He was actually serious, and he is an idiot. I have a buddy that was on the police force that used to deal with him all the time. In and out of the system frequently.
Sadly he used a lot of Govt Grant money to develop that stupid suit. They did eventually find a grizzly. They stuffed the suit full of meat, and the bear destroyed it in under a minute. The sadder thing is, that with all of his messing around with materials he obtained a military contract for body armor and made a ton of cash...go figure.

[bridger]

Sprays and firearms both have proven to be effective defence methods. But if you ever are faced with a full blown all out charge the ability to stay calm and functional is more important that what you have for defence. A charging bear is unbelievably fast and time is something you won't have a lot of. So pick a spray or firearm which ever gives you the most confidence and as others have pointed out practice until you are proficient. More importantly prepare yourself mentally, enjoy the outdoors and don't spend a lot of time worrying about something that in all likelyhood will never happen.

[HarryToolips]

He was mauled by a black bear when he was young,,hence his quest. He was actually serious, and he is an idiot. I have a buddy that was on the police force that used to deal with him all the time. In and out of the system frequently.
Sadly he used a lot of Govt Grant money to develop that stupid suit. They did eventually find a grizzly. They stuffed the suit full of meat, and the bear destroyed it in under a minute. The sadder thing is, that with all of his messing around with materials he obtained a military contract for body armor and made a ton of cash...go figure.
LOL too funny...

[chinook7]

Thank you all for your input. I am not all worried and scared about a grizzly attack or nervous about the back country. I was just trying to get a feel for what some of you had to say. I was interested to hear if some of you would say "I would only trust a defender hunting alone in grizzly country" and none of you said that (except maybe for scouting) and it seems the consensus (for my rifle at least) is to be proficienct with your 308 at short distances and bring spray and use accordingly (if that even makes sense from a charging grizzly).

[aggiehunter]

the relativity to what you carry is directly relative to your amount of varied practice....I use a 45.70 and have a fying pan collection I shoot at at distances of 15 to 30 yards..and as fast as I can accurately shoot...plus it's fun too.

[grizzly550]

I was born and raised in the Kootenays, have 62+ years of very active bush experience all over northern/western Canada, but, most in the Ks and I was a wilderness BCFS fire L/Oman there and elsewhere in BC/AB for years. I have a LOT of gun and a fair amount of bear experience, usually alone and in places where if injured there could be NO help.

I never carry spray, always carry a small air horn from Can.Tire and usually did not bother to pack a gun. I would not use buckshot, ONLY Brenneke slugs in my 14" Benelli and I would much prefer a .308Win or .30-06 with 180-200 Nosler Partitions to ANY other defence tool, period.

BUT, repeat BUT, you MUST practice with THIS rifle until it is an extension of your hand and when in thick country, carry it cocked and ,locked, IN YOUR HANDS.

Use, THE SAME rifle, always and a sound, tuned CRF is best, one of the light Kimber 84 series would be excellent. NO variable scopes, a Leupold 4x and handle, dry fire EVERY day, while shooting at least 1-2 per week. I did just this for years and never had an issue, but, I don't trust bears.

HTH, simple is best.

I gotta chime in cuz I don't want to be reading about any dead hunters in the paper and feel like it may have been the dude who started this thread...No offence but if your walking around cocked and locked, gun in hands..in thick country..(likely nervous looking every which way) your going to end up being the guy that slips/stumbles and blows his damn head off or shoots himself in the leg and bleeds out all alone. If your that nervous about the Griz find a hunting/scouting buddy.

[Bugle M In]

A .308 using a 220 gr. bullet has a Sectional Density of .331 (well over the .300 -min recommended for grizz) Using HE cartridges it’s equivalent to a 30/06. My regular hunting partner LOVER 308 has been using the same 308 since 1967 & I ‘ve witnessed many a moose drop in its tracks with only one shot. Some were more than 2x the size of an average grizz.

As a backup you might consider a Rossi Ranch Hand pistol in 44 mag. It’s legal in Canada.


And bear spray is supposed to stop dead in its tracks a charging grizz ready to kill you.:shock: DREAM ON! You be the judge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdDLhPwpp4

Didn't think this sort of thing was legal in Canada??
Do you need a special licencse for this??
Looks like a hell of a lot of fun for sure ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtPiAF0vx44

[Pioneerman]

You can buy ranch hands , they are legal in Canada. Here they are classed as a rifle in the states they are a pistol

[BgBlkDg]

I gotta chime in cuz I don't want to be reading about any dead hunters in the paper and feel like it may have been the dude who started this thread...No offence but if your walking around cocked and locked, gun in hands..in thick country..(likely nervous looking every which way) your going to end up being the guy that slips/stumbles and blows his damn head off or shoots himself in the leg and bleeds out all alone. If your that nervous about the Griz find a hunting/scouting buddy.


I am not nervous about ANYTHING in the bush, especially given the amount of field experience I have and I am rather skilled at carrying and using guns. I KNOW when to carry "hot" and when to carry "empty" and am obsessive about safety, as one might expect in a person who has spent the solo time in the most remote parts of BC/AB that I have in the past 50 years.

That said, although your assumption therefore premise here is wrong, I genuinely respect and agree with your concern for safety and am happy that you posted it here as we can never be too careful out there.


One little point, after decades of experimenting with all sorts of purpose-built bear defence guns, from Ruger Redhawk .44M. to my old Browning Safari .458WM, I sold all but my CRF bolt rifles and all of them have identical safeties and other controls....seconds really DO count and using the air horn judiciously is, IMO, the best way to alert bears in thick cover that one is nearby.

I usually carry one of my .338WM or 9.3x62 rifles when hunting where I know there are a lot of Grizzlies, this after a pretty scary incident in the East Kootenays circa 1979 while my one remaining purpose-built working rifle is a 20" tubed CRF-.375H&H. I no longer need this, so, it is going with many of my now 35 rifles,and I think that the .308-.30-06 is ideal as they are so easy to learn to shoot FAST and WELL for about anyone.

[BULLNUTTS]

I got a lil 308 savage 99c my first gun ever owned.It's put more meat on the table than Davey Crockett-HOWEVER,a charging grizz iz nooo moose!!! An a hell of a lot tougher to put down,understand that for sure.Once yrs ago ,on a very dry dry year I hiked way up a famous drainage to find the whole area emty of life and dry as a bone. From the top I could see a east/west ridge with the back north face was green- the only green spot within visibility from that mountain top so off I went to the green area.Once there I found every animal for miles was in there.Grizz too but also herds of elk,deer ect.Next morning found me hiking into that area to set up midpoint on a knoll where I could shoot the monster of my dreams at my leasure.While sneeking in slow n carefull- a twig snapped from behind.There not 45yrds out was a huge bore grizz parrelleling me.He was huge at I'm gessing 800lbs plus.I imediatly raised my 308.The bore stopped in his tracks and turned straight to me- ears layed back with a deep menacing growl that I will never forget.Felt under gunned?? You bet your ass I did.I slowly lowered my gun, he stared at me few secounds more then slowly his neck pulled back in and one ear came halfway up and his growls became more of a grumble.finnally his other ear came up as I was starting to slowly back out from the direction we were both going.Hewatched me still grumbling till I was out to about 100 yrds then continued on his way to my spot where I asume he took that big monster at his leasure lol. I dont pack my 308 in big grizz country anymore-sure they been killed with a 22 but david killed goliath witha stone too but I'm not packin rock either.There are just some times,although few, that having more gun is comforting. Just one instance,one encounter,one of manny since,but thats enough for my 2 cents -Good Huntin BULLNUTTS

[wideopenthrottle]

One thing that may seem obvious to experienced hunters in grizz country is don't wear clothes with blood from an earlier kill...there I said it and it seems so obvious but I just wanted to throw it in...
Wide

[boxhitch]

on the lighter side )

Me 'n My Army quick-inflatable Bear Attack Deterrent












Uses air bag technology, coupled with linked inflatable mannequins, to deter bear attacks on hikers. Hiker wears a small air-bag pouch on each side of backpack, containing several inflatable human figures. By pulling the ripcord attached to the pack shoulder strap, the figures rapidly inflate and form a chain of human figures on each side of the hiker. This would not only baffle an attacking bear by providing human decoys, but experience has shown bears to be unwilling to attack a party of about five or six people, so this invention would provide "safety in numbers". Extra protection could be provided by using business C.E.O. look-alikes, although the user may then be legally liable if this causes the bear to die of panic.

[.330 Dakota]

on the lighter side )

Me 'n My Army quick-inflatable Bear Attack Deterrent










Uses air bag technology, coupled with linked inflatable mannequins, to deter bear attacks on hikers. Hiker wears a small air-bag pouch on each side of backpack, containing several inflatable human figures. By pulling the ripcord attached to the pack shoulder strap, the figures rapidly inflate and form a chain of human figures on each side of the hiker. This would not only baffle an attacking bear by providing human decoys, but experience has shown bears to be unwilling to attack a party of about five or six people, so this invention would provide "safety in numbers". Extra protection could be provided by using business C.E.O. look-alikes, although the user may then be legally liable if this causes the bear to die of panic.

LMAO,,,,Love your sense of humor,,,,gheez I hope your joking,,,,,,this would be great at bars,,,instant wingman..lol

[finngun]

boxhit-- are ya talking about 'barbies':mrgreen:,,no my style:wink:

[bruce44]

Studies have shown that most bear attacks that result in human injury happen at very close range where the bear is surprised. Most of the time the hunter only had a chance to fire one shot off and in a panicked state. Always bring bear spray as a backup just in case the bear does get past the muzzle of your rifle.

[chinook7]

I love that rossi hand pistol in a 44. To save ounces I can ditch the bear spray, fab up an ultralight holster (instead of leather) for that "rifle" then get confidence using that little guy (only 4lbs) and pack the 308 in my pack. My gut and reading some of your posts says in the rare event a grizzly charges as many head shots as I can get with that 44 "rifle" Ill take over the spray. Ergonomically it looks easier to handle than 308 or a defender. I like this board.

[J_T]

Lets just say you were doing a solo scouting/hunting trip in august and october in the kootenays. You were spending most of the time at or above the treeline. Would you feel safe with just a 308 (with premium ammo) for grizzly defence? Would you feel like bear spray is "better" if a bear charges over a 308? or would you lug up the short mossberg shotgun as well as safety.

I have never been to that area so I dont know how common grizzly encounters are over there. Every ounce counts on my pack but I dont want to get eaten either.

any suggestions would be helpful.
thanks

(im all over my bear spray maintenance after that moose standoff post)
Back to the original post. I'm not sure where you are from, but the Kootenay is full of people who enjoy the backcountry. Most are not hunters. Most are edible and clad in gortex/spandex. Most do not have the licencing to carry a firearm. And there are very few bear incidents. Statistically the odds are in your favour.

I spend a ton of time in the back country and I carry pepper spray. I've drawn it about 3 times on Grizz. I've been under 40 yards many times and I've had Grizz under 5 yards, never shot a bear. When I'm bowhunting I do carry a Defender, simply because when we draw blood there is additional risk. But if I'm hiking or cutting trail, I'm not very worried about bears.

It isn't what you carry on your pack, it's what you carry in your head. Smarts.

[GoatGuy]

Bear spray is the best.

Seen guys miss, jam guns, try to shoot with the safety on at bears.

[325]

I carry bear spray while hiking. Unless I'm hunting, I don't want to be encumbered by the weight of a firearm. I think most guys would do better with bear spray. I would never carry bear spray and a rifle, with the intention of using the spay only if the rifle doesn't stop the bear. If you wound the bear first, you're dead, and bear spray probably won't save you.

[sawmill]

Bearspray.I used to carry a cut down Mossberg pump with 00 ought buck and slugs when I fished the rivers around Hazelton.I never had to kill a bear but I did persuade a couple by spraying a shitload of gravel in their face.The noise helps too........BUT, as was said, most people will screw up the shotgun thing. Bear Sray is easier to use.

[Singleshotneeded]

.308 with 180 grain ttsx or solid copper bullets...or short barreled 12 gauge with slugs...whichever is easier to carry for you...

[Fisher-Dude]

Bear spray is the best.

Seen guys miss, jam guns, try to shoot with the safety on at bears.

What about the dumbasses that have their spare bullets in the bottom of their packs when the bear attacks? :mrgreen:

Bear spray and sometimes my Maverick 88 with slugs and 000 buck. And spare bullets that aren't stored beneath a 15 pack of Budweiser and a case of Kraft Dinner.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I love that rossi hand pistol in a 44. To save ounces I can ditch the bear spray, fab up an ultralight holster (instead of leather) for that "rifle" then get confidence using that little guy (only 4lbs) and pack the 308 in my pack. My gut and reading some of your posts says in the rare event a grizzly charges as many head shots as I can get with that 44 "rifle" Ill take over the spray. Ergonomically it looks easier to handle than 308 or a defender. I like this board.

Cool maybe but it isn't a pistol or a rifle. Like a pistol grip shotgun hard to aim and control, I've shot both, and pistol ammo is not exactly the #1 choice in fire power against a big POed bear. a 41, 44 or 450 hand gun , could we carry them, would be better than nothing in a "Oh Crap" situation, they are much easier to bring into play and control than the ranch hand.

[boxhitch]

LMAO,,,,Love your sense of humor,,,,gheez I hope your joking,,,,,,this would be great at bars,,,instant wingman..lolthat variation has been suggested as well as the instant street gang for those walking alone at night.
Led to the development of the avi air bag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhP2Z6jVbnk

:)

[caddisguy]

I heard you can stop a grizzly attack the same way you can break up a dog fight, with a finger or two.

[.330 Dakota]

Again, Bear Spray Works,,,sayin it dont doesnt change it

[Chango]

Has anyone seen the video from the fatal attack of Stephan Miller? Given it was a captive grizzly, it was very intent on mauling the guy. The trainers waited far too long to use the spray. After repeatedly cracking it in the head with a pole the grizz doesn't seem to notice. The second they release the spray you can see how quickly the bear turns off.

[gamehunter6o]

I often wondered if a golf umbrella with large scary eyes, mouth and teeth would scare a bear off. I'm not joking as an opening and closing of an umbrella has been used to deter lion and dog attacks. (so I heard years ago)
Size in many cases deters attaching animals, so you imagine a golf umbrella with large eyes and mouth opening and closing held at head height.
If any HBCer is willing to try GHs method, please post video for all to see.

[gamehunter6o]

I heard you can stop a grizzly attack the same way you can break up a dog fight, with a finger or two.

Is that the finger in anus trick?

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm not joking as an opening and closing of an umbrella has been used to deter lion and dog attacks.


We need to ask a professional lion tamer.

Dawg, do you know anyone that can help us with this?

[ruger#1]

Is that the finger in anus trick?

That might work on FD, If he attacks. LOL

[Fisher-Dude]

That might work on FD, If he attacks. LOL

You'd have to move your nose, first.

[ACB]

12 ga. OObuck shot has 9 pellets of .33 cal. Fill a 4 litre milk jug with jello and let it set up, put it out about 25 yd. and let fly with the OObuck and then tell me you wouldn't use it on a bear skull. What the trick is,is be able to hit it. Because a bear is not going to be sitting on a stump. Practice, practice, practice.

[REMINGTON JIM]

[QUOTE=chinook7;1627710]Lets just say you were doing a solo scouting/hunting trip in august and october in the kootenays. You were spending most of the time at or above the treeline. Would you feel safe with just a 308 (with premium ammo) for grizzly defence? Would you feel like bear spray is "better" if a bear charges over a 308?

308 WIN if thats what you have - Loaded with 165-180 gr Barnes TTSX bullets will protect you just Fine ! :biggrin: jmo RJ

[Fella]

get a 4 pack of Karelian bear dogs carry a Jack Russell for back up
Good idea, you can throw the jack Russell at the bear as an offering

[Hanrahan]

I often wondered if a golf umbrella with large scary eyes, mouth and teeth would scare a bear off. I'm not joking as an opening and closing of an umbrella has been used to deter lion and dog attacks. (so I heard years ago)
Size in many cases deters attaching animals, so you imagine a golf umbrella with large eyes and mouth opening and closing held at head height.
If any HBCer is willing to try GHs method, please post video for all to see.

My Great Grandfather was a reverand in Field. I was told stories of him doing exactly that. Apparently he used to walk the train tracks into town and took his umbrella whenever he went out. I guess it worked because he saw lots of bears and never got attacked. So I'm told, anyway. As a side note, his church is now sitting in the "Ghost Town" in 3 Valley Gap with a little plaque and a blurb about him.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Good idea, you can throw the jack Russell at the bear as an offering

There's a reason they're shaped like a football LMAO

[Foxton Gundogs]

Hope this grizz encounter in probably a similar setting helps!

30/06 (similar to a .308 ) saves the day. Both emptied their bear spray to no avail. A sow protecting its cubs means business similar to a predatory bear charging for the kill. Had they no weapon handy they both would have been bear scats, no doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dry7aDm6ws

Good video, a lesson o be learned. When I first started in the outfitting industry my back up rifle was a Model 95 carbine in '06. I carried it through a number of years of packing cowboying as well, loaded with 220 gr bullets it never let me down

[REMINGTON JIM]

Good idea, you can throw the jack Russell at the bear as an offering

HUH ! :shock: The last Jack Russell i had a run in with was MEANER then a G Bear ! :biggrin: RJ

[Ohwildwon]

Hope this grizz encounter in probably a similar setting helps!

30/06 (similar to a .308 ) saves the day. Both emptied their bear spray to no avail. A sow protecting its cubs means business similar to a predatory bear charging for the kill. Had they no weapon handy they both would have been bear scats, no doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dry7aDm6ws

There you go...
Defintly will practice shooting from the hip as a last last resort...

[BgBlkDg]

If, I move to Nelson, (hope, hope), I will buy a Karelian from Dawne Deeley and have the dog accompany me on any non-hunting bush trips, with my air horn and maybe spray. I am NOT convinced by the stuff spewed by Dr. Tom Smith, a guy from the US *Midwest* and his fellow investors in spray making firms.so, will go with my usual approach which has worked very well for me since I encounterd my first Grizzly in April, 1956 at Hall Siding, BC.

I just do not feel like packing the weight of a gun on most fishing and other such trips.

[Downtown]

Lots of studies/trials along with adding up the results of grizz encounters have found bear spray to be far more effective than a rifle.

except for him --> http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?116664-Broken-Bear-Spray


Yep all those Studies.........................from all those People which never experienced the horror of a real Grizzly charge!

[Ranger95]

Lets just say you were doing a solo scouting/hunting trip in august and october in the kootenays. You were spending most of the time at or above the treeline. Would you feel safe with just a 308 (with premium ammo) for grizzly defence? Would you feel like bear spray is "better" if a bear charges over a 308? or would you lug up the short mossberg shotgun as well as safety.


I have never been to that area so I dont know how common grizzly encounters are over there. Every ounce counts on my pack but I dont want to get eaten either.


any suggestions would be helpful.
thanks


(im all over my bear spray maintenance after that moose standoff post)


The BC regs state that you need 175gr bullet with 2000ftlbs energy @100 meters to kill a Bison.

I tend to use this as my minimum spec when facing large Animals in NA- I prefer something shooting a 275 - 300 gr bullet with 2800- 3000ftlbs of energy @100 meters.

Since it takes about 6 seconds for the oxygen in a grizz's brain to BEGIN to deplete, he can run the 40 yards between you and him in 4 seconds and still have a couple of seconds to get even with you...

Therefore, I also believe in loads of practise, we use a 12" barell (pail) on a zip line - try placing two rounds in a 8" kill zone with the barell coming at you from 40 yards (start the barell at a slow speed (so you can actually hit it) and work your way up to 4 seconds or beter)

[FirePower]

Again, Bear Spray Works,,,sayin it dont doesnt change it

No sir, it surely does not.


Hope this grizz encounter in probably a similar setting helps!

30/06 (similar to a .308 ) saves the day. Both emptied their bear spray to no avail. A sow protecting its cubs means business similar to a predatory bear charging for the kill. Had they no weapon handy they both would have been bear scats, no doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dry7aDm6ws

Top drawer video mate. I have hunted dangerous game on 4 continents and have always been steadfast in my defense of the short, fast handling large calibre rifle, firing a heavy well constructed bullet. On the evidence presented in this video, "The defense rests"

[FirePower]

The BC regs state that you need 175gr bullet with 2000ftlbs energy @100 meters to kill a Bison.

I tend to use this as my minimum spec when facing large Animals in NA- I prefer something shooting a 275 - 300 gr bullet with 2800- 3000ftlbs of energy @100 meters.

Since it takes about 6 seconds for the oxygen in a grizz's brain to BEGIN to deplete, he can run the 40 yards between you and him in 4 seconds and still have a couple of seconds to get even with you...

Therefore, I also believe in loads of practise, we use a 12" barell on a zip line - try placing two rounds in a 8" kill zone with the barell coming at you from 40 yards (start the barell at a slow speed (so you can actually hit it) and work your way up to 4 seconds or beter)
I have always taken exception at this law. While undoubtedly well meaning it has serious flaws in practise. The most obvious is it discounts the most devastating buffalo cartridge of all times. The great herds of the U.S. plains were whipped out almost to extinction almost singularly with the 45-70 Government in it's black powder form, which was notably less effective than the modern loads for this cartridge we have available today.

[Hanrahan]

My experience with g bears is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If I'm not hunting, I make plenty of noise in the bush. The one time I was charged was a case of quietly and unknowingly cutting a bear off from his escape route while downwind. He had no idea I was there and I had no idea he was there until too late. Make noise, take a dog. I figure it's better to reduce my odds of being charged rather than sneak around and rely on my gun or bear spray to save me. I saw how fast those things charge and I would only have had a chance to get one shot off - IF my gun was loaded and ready to go. I was shaking so bad with adrenaline that I'm not sure I would have hit him anyway.

[M.Dean]

If you are concerned about being charged by a bear( black or grizzly) you need to practice off handed shooting at 25 yards learn your point of aim at that distance. If you are not packing a tag you don't want to pull the trigger on a bear unless it is coming at you at 25 yards or less, outside that distance or a broad side shot the COs don't have much of a sense of humor about such things. if you have to shoot aim at the nose or chin and keep shooting until it doesn't move ant more. I concur with the comments from this Gentleman! And, when you think you've practiced enough, practice for another few days firing your weapon free hand! I teach all my students, ( I don't got no students, but it makes it sound like I know what in hell I'm talk'in about!) that firing free hand should be second nature, and, I'm not finished yet, so sit back down! Try shouldering your rifle, loaded and safety on, walk around or jog so your breathing hard, get back to the firing line and try to hit that 25 yard target, it's harder than it sounds! Next, pretend there's fur on that charging, peed off target, 20 razor sharp claws and a mouth full of massive teeth that love to eat things alive, and now try to hit the 25 yard target! You have a great trip, take lots of pictures, and hopefully the next time we hear from you it's "Not" on the 6:00 News!!!

[Darksith]

I get such a kick out of these "Im terrified of a bear eating me" threads...SMH at so many here... nothing to be afraid of, no need to pack an extra gun...you wouldn't have time to get it off your back 999 times out of 1000, and wouldn't need it ten times more

[Foxton Gundogs]

12 ga. OObuck shot has 9 pellets of .33 cal. Fill a 4 litre milk jug with jello and let it set up, put it out about 25 yd. and let fly with the OObuck and then tell me you wouldn't use it on a bear skull. What the trick is,is be able to hit it. Because a bear is not going to be sitting on a stump. Practice, practice, practice.

OK I'll tell you just that. Jello is soft, hell you can eat it with no teeth. If you want to do a real test try layers of wet phone books placed on edge 5 or 6 deep and bound together, I bet you'll be surprised. I have on most of my shotgun and big bore rifle loads/cartridges. I'll take the heavy big bore rifle cartridges, then GOOD shotgun slugs, the buckshot can stay at home. Just ask the CO who chased a black bear around Pr. Geo. after shooting it full in the face with 00 Buck at close range, My partner a taxidermist was there trailing it with his hound he skinned it out to see what went wrong not 1 pellet penetrated the skull or took out any 'sensory organs'. I do agree with the Practise part, but do it with your rifle or slug gun.

[Wild one]

Holy crap... Just take the 308 and the spray and go hunting man!! I work in grizz country all the time, chit sometimes I even hunt them... Now if these bears were out hunting and killing us there wouldn't be a forester, berry picker, tree hugger or grow-op operator left in the Kootenays!! Im not saying bear attacks don't happen, they most certainly do, but don't over think it too much. Get out there pay attention to the signs and keep aware as best you can. Get a little concerned after you pull the trigger and have your game on the ground - this would be a good time to hurry - gut, load and get out! You should be more worried getting in your car everyday and driving to work than getting a bite from a bear. Get out there, be smart, be aware and enjoy it! Oh, if you do have the Kevlar storm trooper suit, I wold wear it - cause that would be soooo cool!!!!!

agree relax and enjoy your time in the bush

In my honest opinion your brain is what truly keeps you the safest in bear country. Respect that they are around and if you are not hunting them give them space.

Does not hurt to have spray or a rifle because on RARE occasions things can go sideways no matter what you do.

I bowhunt in grizz country with nothing but my bow and a knife never felt I needed anything else.

[wlbc]

Is that the finger in anus trick?

CRAP, got coffee on the keyboard! That there is funny!

[wlbc]

Lets just say you were doing a solo scouting/hunting trip in august and october in the kootenays. You were spending most of the time at or above the treeline. Would you feel safe with just a 308 (with premium ammo) for grizzly defence? Would you feel like bear spray is "better" if a bear charges over a 308? or would you lug up the short mossberg shotgun as well as safety.

I have never been to that area so I dont know how common grizzly encounters are over there. Every ounce counts on my pack but I dont want to get eaten either.

any suggestions would be helpful.
thanks

(im all over my bear spray maintenance after that moose standoff post)

First off, your 308, as long as you can use it very well will be as useful as most any other firearm. If I was packing a 308 I don't think I would bother with the bear spray in addition for the same purpose.

FME grizzly's move far faster than most people realize. Unless you start out seeing the bear at 50 yards you will likely not have time to use either a firearm or bear spray. In the sudden encounter cases, 20 yards or shorter, if it is not already in your hand ready to use I do not think one can get a shot or some spray off fast enough. I was scouting a few years ago North West of Mackenzie and came across a nice grizzly boar. I never took him because he was on the wrong side of the dang tag line. The wind was blowing in our faces - hard - so he could not smell us although he kept looking in our direction as if he could sort of sense something. I had my CZ 416Rigby so felt pretty safe. We got up to about 30 yards and I shouldered my rifle and got my camera, got some great shots. I figured I would have time to drop the rifle and swing my CZ up if I had to. Anyway I put the camera away and reshouldered my CZ and we slowly backed away. He still couldn't figure out if something was there or not. When we were about 75 yards away my partner yelled loud and through a rock by the bear. It jumped and took off. I have never seen any animal in real life move that fast. Faster than a spooked cougar. Based on what I saw I then realized that had the bear come for us from 30 yards I would not have had time to drop the camera and shoulder my rifle. NOT ENOUGH TIME.

I think either a rifle that you can use well or bear spray would work fine. Personally I would rather pack a rifle.

[birdee]

What about the dumbasses that have their spare bullets in the bottom of their packs when the bear attacks? :mrgreen:

Bear spray and sometimes my Maverick 88 with slugs and 000 buck. And spare bullets that aren't stored beneath a 15 pack of Budweiser and a case of Kraft Dinner.
there's the problem should be luck nobody likes that $hit

[timbermilton]

oh the age old questions, gun or bear spray? what caliber? ford, dodge, or chevy? GMC wins hands down.

i'm a trad bow hunter and NEVER take any gun with me and i head to remote areas to hunt. gun is just extra weight, and really, for me, so is the bear spray. AWARENESS!!!! that's what will save your bacon. mmmmm BACON! now, don't get me wrong, i am pro-gun. but i just don't use them for my purposes. both gun and spray can be effective, but also BOTH can be ineffective. adrenaline will play a major role in it.

as a conservationist, i will always try to sway people to use the spray. but, either way you go, from forming YOUR OWN OPINION, learn about the animals that are in the area you are hunting, camping, fishing, or whathaveyou, that you are doing in the woods. awareness and being predator smart will keep you alive longer than any other form of protection.

there are more dangerous animals in the woods than just bear; cougar, wolves, pack of yotes, people, the list is larger than you may think.

[Goose]

Probably a stupid question, but from reading these responses, if a gun shot would scare away a bear (attacking or otherwise) wouldnt an air horn then be more effective than a can of bear spray? (if for some reason you werent carrying a gun)
Cheers!

[caddisguy]

Probably a stupid question, but from reading these responses, if a gun shot would scare away a bear (attacking or otherwise) wouldnt an air horn then be more effective than a can of bear spray? (if for some reason you werent carrying a gun)
Cheers!

Air horns are useful and may startle a bear enough that it will leave. Probably won't fall for it twice though. Like yelling, banging pots and pans, using a bear banger, firing a shot into the dirt, it may also provoke the bear. Some bears even come running towards gun shots. There are cases where bears have been shot while mauling a person, only to retreat for a minute or two before they decide that a less than fatal shot doesn't bother them bad enough to give up a meal and return to continue mauling/eating.

Bears learn quickly though and it might realize after hearing one or two air horns that it means "vulnerable human"... could even happen seconds after hearing the first one. That said, an air horn might have an application in trying to scare off a bear (ie: bear is lounging around in your backyard and from the safety of your front door you might try a blast)

There's always room in my pack for an air horn whether I'm hiking, or out on the boat fishing. One time I was hiking with my brother in a heavily forested area with a river and a number of large creeks that had multiple viens and forked all over the place. He wanted to head off and look for another decent hole to fish, but I made the mistake of letting him go without a time/place to meet. Just had a general direction of travel but he could have crossed a number of streams and double backed. Long story short, after an hour and a half or so, I was uncomfortable with the situation... leaving the spot where he knew--or should know--where I was (to go and find him) or waiting for him to come back. I went out to see if I could track him. Hiking around and calling did nothing, especially with the sound of the water. It was blast of the air horn every couple minutes that helped him find his way back to me. Lesson learned though. Always communicate specifics.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to the spray versus shoot debate. Scenarios and options will always vary... distance of bear, how it is acting, the persons ability. One might have a 90% chance of hitting the bear with spray, which might be 75% effective in stopping the attack... same scenario the person might have a 25% chance of a critical shot that would have 90% odds of stopping the bear before it was able to maul them. In another case, maybe a bear has been stalking someone at a distance for some time and clearly acting predatory... it's at 15 yards now and there's time for a perfect head shot. I think most guys would rather take the head shot before the bear gets closer and/or charges. Often predatory attacks don't begin or even consist of a charge, but rather indirect or round-about following, avoiding eye contact, etc. It could go on for several minutes... might not even charge at all (maybe if you try to run) but will just walk up, bear-handle you a bit and start eating you alive. Walking through thick brush or tall grass with low visibilty... maybe you start to smell a kill? Might want to have the spray in head. Bears are hard to shoot when their on top of you. Carry both and be ready with whatever is appropriate for the scenario.

Like others mention, out of all the things that can happen to you in the bush or on the highway, problems with bears is a low on the list. Not saying don't be ready, but pointing out there are other priorities. I haven't had a bear act aggressively towards me, but I've had a number of close calls with rock slides, falling trees and bad drivers.

[squamishhunter]

I work in the bush with a .44 mag revolver and feel plenty safe.

[olympia]

I work in the bush with a .44 mag revolver and feel plenty safe.

not all of us are allowed to carry a revolver in the bush my squampton brother

[Busterpayton54]

Here's a link to one of them funny bear spray studies... Personally I find it funny that in this 94% success rate they include using it as an area spray, spraying curious Bears and so on. If you actually read the study, only a handful of the incidences were actually aggressive Bears. Only 18 of the so called 85 incidents were agressive. Only 9 actually charged, and 3 cases resulted in the Bears contacting the human.

Personally i wouldnt call it 94% effective in 85 cases. I would call it 66% effective in 9 cases... Works 2 out of 3 times. http://www.ccrd-bc.ca/files/library/C%28f%29_Shelton.pdf

[.330 Dakota]

If it was a chance encounter and the bear acted aggressively I would spray it,,,seen it work,,it does,,,I do advocate the use of bear spray and I have seen it work several times,,,where I wouldnt use it is on a charging sow with cubs etc,,,,only a bullet will stop her