Changes to fresh water regs - sproat lake and great central

[Dutch Ppoacher]

My buddy brought it to my attention that there where some small but significant changes to both Sproat and Great Central lakes
implementation of single barbless and
retention size reduction to 50cm of rainbows

I personally can't understand both of these changes.

Sproat lake is so over run with cutthroat trout (no retention) and the average size rainbow is 12-15" and very few of them.
Most local residents kill the cutties as thats all they catch.... And most are highbred

great central is an under utilized lake with LOTS of fish mostly cutties. Average size is better then sproat lake. Closer to 16-18"

most lake fishing gear comes with treble hooks, most traditional flatfish are used that way. Gangtroll/flatfish/wedding band is the most common fishing style for these lakes. The other style would be bottom fishing with roe/paste/power bait. It is very common for small treble hooks to used here too


Who makes the decisions to change these long standing rules. I believe this decision is just going to collect alot of tickets from summer lake visitors who are fishing with their kids. Single barbless for trout?!?

Would love to hear what you guys think.
There where other lakes changed to this as well, Hope ppl read up before this weekends trout derbys!

Curtis

[steel_ram]

Perhaps a measure to protect the remaining few steelhead that migrate through the lake? Treble hooks are nasty. Especially in a C&R fishery.

[boxhitch]

They should include some reasoning.
like this one http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/2015/02/regulation-changes-encourage-family-fishing.html

[boxhitch]

and whatever happened to the consultation website ?
http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/2011/11/website-opens-consultation-on-angling-hunting-regulations.html

[Eastbranch]

All reg changes were posted on the ahte website with detailed rationale back in december.

[Wild one]

Perhaps a measure to protect the remaining few steelhead that migrate through the lake? Treble hooks are nasty. Especially in a C&R fishery.


Steelhead protection makes sense and would explain no fish over 50cm

Barbs can be nasty yes but small single hooks with bait are way worse then anything when it comes to throat hooking fish.

Personally barb and bait restrictions make sense. The single hook vs treble they both have good and bad points when it comes to releasing fish.

[Dutch Ppoacher]

From a local fishermans perspective The steelhead aren't a concern, i fish these lakes a ton and the amount of steelhead caught in the lakes are next to a mute point.
All stocks in this valley have hatchery strains in them, no pure wild stock left.
The stamp/somass system is enhanced for ppl to catch steelhead. So the thought that they are trying to save them isn't convincing to me.
Another thought about this new barbless rule, most of you who have run a gang troll know how easy it is for trout to get off due to the lack of tention to the fish. Untill the gangtroll breaks the water it creates drag and removes any tention on the fish. Barbless hooks aren't going to work! Barbed singles would be ok sticky trebs even better.

I catch and release about 1000 trout from these two lakes every yr and see no need for these changes. It changes my gear a little, but i see it being a bothersome requirment for younger, newer and visiting fisher ppl.

[Dutch Ppoacher]

I will add the age restriction waters change is a great change. Keeping it family orientated!

[shed-hunter1]

I don't agree my buddy whos 74 favorite lake around Kamloops was isolbel now he cant go fish it

[Downwind]

Over the 50cm regulation is for wild fish not hatchery. You can still retain hatchery rainbows under 50cm.

[Sofa King]

From a local fishermans perspective The steelhead aren't a concern, i fish these lakes a ton and the amount of steelhead caught in the lakes are next to a mute point.
All stocks in this valley have hatchery strains in them, no pure wild stock left.
The stamp/somass system is enhanced for ppl to catch steelhead. So the thought that they are trying to save them isn't convincing to me.
Another thought about this new barbless rule, most of you who have run a gang troll know how easy it is for trout to get off due to the lack of tention to the fish. Untill the gangtroll breaks the water it creates drag and removes any tention on the fish. Barbless hooks aren't going to work! Barbed singles would be ok sticky trebs even better.

I catch and release about 1000 trout from these two lakes every yr and see no need for these changes. It changes my gear a little, but i see it being a bothersome requirment for younger, newer and visiting fisher ppl.

you catch and release 1000 trout from these two lakes every year using barbed trebles? and you don't think any are being harmed?
if you are just c&r anyway, why the need for barbs?

[Scotty-B]

http://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/angling/sproat-lake-steelhead
http://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/angling/great-central-lake

[steel_ram]

I would assume it is likely that steelhead that are heading to and from the tributaries are not from, or related to those pumped out of the Robertson Crk Hatchery on the Stamp. It's probably it's own little race that as in many small creeks may only number in the 10's.

[835]

Dutch,

the over 50cm rule as has been pointed out is to protect wild Steelhead. The hatcheries dumped into the river are for the fishermen you are correct,,, also you are correct in the fact that there is no true wild fish there,,,, BUT! a fish that has to survive being bred in a river is a stronger gene the hatchery breed... Regardless you can argue that to death,,, fact is the 50 rule is there to protect them...

Barbless rule has never been an issue to me, all my life i have fished Barbless except for the very first few years of my life... Barbless rule has freaked many anglers out before,, fact is landing a fish on a single barbless is simple....

I was just talking to a co worker about fishing and what i have seen in my life.. i have watched rivers Die... they went from Coho, Steelhead paradise to just another river......
Granted your systems are a hell of alot robust,,,, but i am pretty onside for certain regulations..... Barbless and 50cm being 2 i am ok with

[steel_ram]

How would a wild fish that spawn beyond where hatchery fish spawn pick up hatchery genetics. Unless the hatchery fish are planted into these remote tributaries to implant, it probably doesn't happen. Just intermingling en route in the SSS rivers, or Alberni inlet for that matter is not going to mix gene's.

[Dutch Ppoacher]

http://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/angling/sproat-lake-steelhead
http://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/angling/great-central-lake

I read these as if the government is saying they are wild steelhead.....which they are not. Like i said earlier, this system is enhanced by robertson cr hatchery.
i could understand it if they where wild.
I wonder if there was a representative from the valley here that was their consultant or if the decision was made by ppl who have no intimate knowledge of this system, but look at data to make decisions...

[Eastbranch]

I think it's pretty safe to assume the ministry biologists know more about steelhead than you do.

[Dutch Ppoacher]

you catch and release 1000 trout from these two lakes every year using barbed trebles? and you don't think any are being harmed?
if you are just c&r anyway, why the need for barbs?
No, you miss read what i have written. I am more concerned about others (young families & tourists) regarding this new single barbless rule. As most ppl here used cowichan spinner or gangtrolls here, barbless hooks are going to be a joke trying to keep fish on.
I personally dont use trebbles, but do use barbed singles for my style of fishing

[Dutch Ppoacher]

I would assume it is likely that steelhead that are heading to and from the tributaries are not from, or related to those pumped out of the Robertson Crk Hatchery on the Stamp. It's probably it's own little race that as in many small creeks may only number in the 10's.
I can't disagree with the thought of steelhead in Sproat lake tribs, but understand robertson cr hatchery fish are trucked all over our valley. Not just dumped out the gate back into the stamp.
another factor for impurity is hatchery fish end up everywhere. I personally have caught hatchery in most of our tributary river, in the ones i haven't, i have friends that have. These where marked hatchery fish. Never mind the 60% of unclipped hatchery fish that are released due to budget cuts

[Dutch Ppoacher]

the over 50cm rule as has been pointed out is to protect wild Steelhead. The hatcheries dumped into the river are for the fishermen you are correct,,, also you are correct in the fact that there is no true wild fish there,,,, BUT! a fish that has to survive being bred in a river is a stronger gene the hatchery breed... Regardless you can argue that to death,,, fact is the 50 rule is there to protect them...
I'll have to agree to arguing that to death
technically every yr unclipped hatchery steelhead are kept for brood stock to ensure a "strong breed"
you can't tell me one hatchery fish is stronger then another hatchery fish because one made it in the gate before it was closed and forced the rest to spawn in the river/lake

Barbless rule has never been an issue to me, all my life i have fished Barbless except for the very first few years of my life... Barbless rule has freaked many anglers out before,, fact is landing a fish on a single barbless is simple...
I have felt the same way my whole Guiding career in the salt and fresh water barbless was never a factor in styles of fishing where there is solid positive force to keep the hook in place.
Salt - your travelling 2.5-3.5mph and 15-30' off the rigger. A recipe for positive hookups
Rivers - you have river flow and direct contact to your gear. The advantage of a boat is even better keeping you tight on a fish.
Lakes(trout) your 30-50 pulls back @3' per pull +/- 90-150' back. Travelling at 1-1.5mph is not a recipe for positive hook ups. You still got to get the hardwear out of the water to get direct pressure on your fish...

[steel_ram]

I can't disagree with the thought of steelhead in Sproat lake tribs, but understand robertson cr hatchery fish are trucked all over our valley. Not just dumped out the gate back into the stamp.
another factor for impurity is hatchery fish end up everywhere. I personally have caught hatchery in most of our tributary river, in the ones i haven't, i have friends that have. These where marked hatchery fish. Never mind the 60% of unclipped hatchery fish that are released due to budget cuts

Sounds like a really Fk'd up system if hatchery fish are 100% up in the headwaters.

I've never had a problem with barbless in stillwaters, but then I'd never drag all that hardware either. I leave that for commercial fishing.

[835]

Gotta admit i dont fish lakes much.... Been meaning to fish the Cowivchan more... and hope to do so when the daughter is older....

The 50cm rule that applies to Cutthrought in Lake Cowichan has aparently brought the fishing back there. Lake Cow has some huge cutties way back in the day,,,, they used to get into the double didgits 11-13lbs.... they got killed.
If i have this right, a guy that has fished it for a his lifetime remembers big fish dissapearing and the 50cm rule bringing them back.. not quite to the size they once were.... but still.

You do have me, i know nothing about lake trolling 150' behind the boat, ant that makes a buttload of line stretch for 6-8lb test,,, so you in that case a barb probably helps!
but i an a fan of the 50cm rule i cant budge on that!

[IronNoggin]

I think it's pretty safe to assume the ministry biologists know more about steelhead than you do.

Don't bet your ass on that one Kris! :wink:

There are MANY here that understand a hell of a LOT more about steelhead than our current "ministry" folks do.
And btw, Dutchie just happens to be one of those...

Genetic drift from Robertson Creek has been identified in damn near every single trib to the mainstem, and many smaller systems that enter the outer Inlet. No reason to suspect that has not occurred "upstairs" as well.
I can personally verify catching hatchery steel in Sproat Lake and the main rivers that feed it.
Why would GCL be any different?

Cheers,
Nog

[Red arch]

You realize that steelhead are often strain specific? In other words those "hatchery genetics" put into the system by hatchery fish are from the same genetic base as the wild genetics?

the difference between the two is wild's have to go from egg to smolt in the river while hatchery fish go from egg to smolt in a hatchery.

These also might display the answer, despite the most recent stockings only going into the Somass river.

http://www.gofishbc.com/fish-stocking-reports/reports-species/reports-species-results.aspx?StockSpecies=Steelhead&StockStrains=STAMP/SOMASS%20R&StockGenotypes=all&FishStages=all&Region=VANCOUVER%20ISLAND&Town=all&Waterbody=all&&YearFrom=2006&YearTo=2015

http://www.gofishbc.com/fish-stocking-reports/reports-species/reports-species-results.aspx?StockSpecies=Steelhead&StockStrains=STAMP/SOMASS%20R&StockGenotypes=all&FishStages=all&Region=VANCOUVER%20ISLAND&Town=all&Waterbody=all&&YearFrom=1996&YearTo=2005

http://www.gofishbc.com/fish-stocking-reports/reports-species/reports-species-results.aspx?StockSpecies=Steelhead&StockStrains=STAMP/SOMASS%20R&StockGenotypes=all&FishStages=all&Region=VANCOUVER%20ISLAND&Town=all&Waterbody=all&&YearFrom=1986&YearTo=1995

http://www.gofishbc.com/fish-stocking-reports/reports-species/reports-species-results.aspx?StockSpecies=Steelhead&StockStrains=STAMP/SOMASS%20R&StockGenotypes=all&FishStages=all&Region=VANCOUVER%20ISLAND&Town=all&Waterbody=all&&YearFrom=1966&YearTo=1975

http://www.gofishbc.com/fish-stocking-reports/reports-species/reports-species-results.aspx?StockSpecies=Steelhead&StockStrains=STAMP/SOMASS%20R&StockGenotypes=all&FishStages=all&Region=VANCOUVER%20ISLAND&Town=all&Waterbody=all&&YearFrom=1966&YearTo=1975

Above are the links to the stocking data of Sommas/Stamp river strain steelhead for the past 50 years.

I believe the same process occurs with Hatchery cutties.