Subsistence hunting in BC

[markrrr]

Hey everyone,

After spending some time with indigenous peoples here in the province, and watching 'Life Below Zero', a reality TV show about subsistence hunters in Alaska, I am inspired to try to relate deeper with the land by hunting and fishing for most of my food (in addition to growing some root vegetables and purchasing some staples like flour).

Question: Does anyone know anyone who is actually living like this in BC or Yukon? I know people are doing it in Alaska, and I know there are indigenous people who live like this, very simply, close to the Earth.

I am thinking in one of the more remote parts of BC... currently I'm in the West Chilcotin and may also explore the area around Atlin and also the Yukon...

But I'm not sure how amenable our hunting regulations are to this sort of thing. It's hard to even estimate how much game meat I would go through in a year. And to know where good hunting grounds are locally, how spread out they are, etc...

I would love to hear any tips you may have.

Thanks,
Mark

[zippermouth]

there is enough open seasons to live through sustenance by just hunting during the hunting season. you have spring bear, deer, elk moose etc. also the fishing in the chilcotin is top notch. pick berries In the summer etc. I've never really thought about living through sustenance but I'm sure it could be doable. would require huge effort to make it happen but good luck in your research.

[Drillbit]

Food preservation is the tough part without a freezer.

[Sofa King]

Food preservation is the tough part without a freezer.

i think he is just saying eating food from the land, not store-bought.
he can still be living in a home and not in a teepee.

my bigger question would be, why?
and remember, those reality shows are mostly bullshit, that's being done for tv, AND they are getting paid.
one should never be getting "inspired" from those garbage shows.
look what happened to that kid in "into the wild".

a key part would be locale.
being in a most suitable climate for everything.
and the far north is definitely NOT the ideal location for that.
your growing season is extremely short and your winters extremely long.

[gutpile]

Living of land is really a joke ! ... when it comes right down to it
all of us human are still living of the earth !

[luger]

Well if your gonna stay away from the meat section of the grocery store. Why not try growing more of your own food. My family has store tomato's, potato's and all sort of veggys. In a cold room in crates with layers of hay. We have had Christmas dinners with only our farm products.

[adriaticum]

i think he is just saying eating food from the land, not store-bought.
he can still be living in a home and not in a teepee.

my bigger question would be, why?
and remember, those reality shows are mostly bullshit, that's being done for tv, AND they are getting paid.
one should never be getting "inspired" from those garbage shows.
look what happened to that kid in "into the wild".

a key part would be locale.
being in a most suitable climate for everything.
and the far north is definitely NOT the ideal location for that.
your growing season is extremely short and your winters extremely long.

Food preservation is about canning and smoking food to preserve it for the long haul.
Why would he?

Maybe he doesn't want to be dependent on the government

[adriaticum]

Living of land is really a joke ! ... when it comes right down to it
all of us human are still living of the earth !

I think you're the only one laughing at your joke.
Living off the land means providing everything yourself.
Not living off the Earth as opposed to off the Mars.

[rides bike to work]

My family is dukabors from the kootneys and my dad lived on a communal farm with no power till he was 16. They canned a lot and ate fish a lot. They hunted and canned most of that meat as well.not hard to do really. When you have a heard of ladies and kids to do the canning gardening hand laundry. You just go fishing and hunting all day. Wich is why after granpa died Grama bought a car and a house in the city and a tv to watch her Johnny Carson. She still gardens enough for preserves for the year.mushrooms to she is a mushroom picking machine. My dad remembers the home remedies they had when the kids got sick. Lost a few cousins to common sicknesses.

[M.Dean]

I can't believe how many of these so called " Subsistence Hunters" on these so called "Reality Shows" buy for there hunting rifles after they get paid for the first season? On the one show a young lady is tickled pink cuz she's got a new rifle for providing meat for her family, even the idiot guy narrating the show called it a high powdered rifle, from what I could see it was a tactical type rifle, and the guy said it was a 223. Sure, she's got a 30 round mag in it, but I'd think a ott 6 maybe, 7 Mag, 300 mag etc would be a bit better choice, no??? She shot a Caribou and wounded it, so her and about 9 other kids chased it down and finally killed it. Another part of these "Make Believe" shows is when someone falls into the river or over a 10 thousand foot cliff, is they show the person dam near dieing, but wouldn't you think one of the many camera men, of the producer, or even the "Makeup Crew" would help them long before they died??? What a crock of Sh**! Anyways, if your going to "Live off the Land", take a "Hunting Rifle", don't shoot cows or calves, and good luck!

[Wild one]

It is possible to supplement a large chunk of your groceries between hunting, fishing, and farming. I know a few that do this but your location will dictate how well you can do this.

They all work as well but they do what they can to keep the grocery bills down

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Do you have a hunting license? Your own property to build a green house? Do you have a job to pay for materials, fuel etc....... All things to be considered.

The funny thing about those types of show is most of those people live on the outskirts of a village or town.

[hardnocks]

I don`t think it is possible with out poaching.

I grow up just in the tail end of subsistence living. my dad , uncles, cousins were all poachers, they speared salmon shot a deer when meat was needed. we were a family of seven so I took a lot of food and a lot of work .

are you single or have a family?

[gutpile]

Why would you want to do that anyways , nothing but hard life
not much fun in my opinion .

[hardnocks]

Why would you want to do that anyways , nothing but hard life
not much fun in my opinion .
Totally agree with this all summer and fall you would work like a slave just to get ready for a long winter.

[MichelD]

http://www.echobayecoventures.com/OvernightGetaways.html

This woman gives lessons for a price.

"Experience a one-of-a-kind, primitive living adventure. Live off the land on a
custom-tailored, overnight getaway. Unwind in the safety of a storybook
woodland village, complete with primitive tools and crafts of the coastal First
Nations. Sleep nestled under the stars in private cedar hideaways, replicas from
the days of the dugout canoe. Visit ancient sites and observe your favorite
coastal wildlife."


She wrote a book about her adventures including shooting a doe with a bow and arrow. Never mentioned anything about hunting licences or seasons though.

[steel_ram]

There's a school bus up near Denali National Park waiting for a new occupant. There's a lot more to living off the land than hunting. Sounds romantic but I think for most of us soft westerners reality would set in pretty quick.

[180grainer]

You'd be better off growing a good garden and raising your own meat like rabbit and chicken. You'd also have to get into canning and other food preservation techniques. There are ways to preserve meat without a freezer and canning is one of them. If you hunt for your meat......well you can't get skunked can you.

[boxhitch]

Totally agree with this all summer and fall you would work like a slave just to get ready for a long winter.Yeah , its far better to work a 9 til 5 and hand over 40 % of a paycheck to taxes , and die from eating processed foods . Who's the slave ?

[chrismcd]

should be doable with maybe minus your veggies and grains and any other types of meat you may want (im thinking bacon)
those reality shows are ridiculous. except Sue Aikens. that chick is wicked. miles above everyone else, all alone
by far the best "character" on any reality show. she got attacked by a grizzly(?) and crawled back to camp, grabbed her gun, shot the bear, waiting 2 weeks for a plane to get her out, then came home like nothing happend.

[Gateholio]

This isn't really complicated. In rural areas all over BC, people are living a close to subsistence lifestyle, even with a normal job. GO hunting for moose, bear and deer for meat, catch a few fish, grow a garden, raise a few chickens and you are more than half way there.

Frankly, if you have a big enough back yard, you can do this in urban areas as well.

[boxhitch]

You'd be better off growing a good garden and raising your own meat like rabbit and chicken. You'd also have to get into canning and other food preservation techniques. There are ways to preserve meat without a freezer and canning is one of them. If you hunt for your meat......well you can't get skunked can you.Great ideas . Hunting can supplement the protein , but i its standing fresh on the hoof or wing at home , you won't starve. Chickens and eggs , goats and milk

[Buck]

Hell i can eat wildgame all year long living in the lowermainland.Duck, Goose, Salmon Deer ,Blackbear Trout.Garden in the backyard.

[adriaticum]

Hell i can eat wildgame all year long living in the lowermainland.Duck, Goose, Salmon Deer ,Blackbear Trout.Garden in the backyard.

You could, but do you?

[Buck]

You could, but do you?

Oh yea we still buy chicken and go out for dinner ect.

[sausage lover]

Get on it talk is cheap! Why couldn't you do it?

[sausage lover]

Salmon,trout,bear,deer,rabbit no garden but soon :-P

[adriaticum]

Oh yea we still buy chicken and go out for dinner ect.


Well that's hardly subsistence living.

Actually, subsistence living has kind of a negative connotation.
TV and marketing have done a successful job in making people who produce what they eat look like fools.

[crownandanchor]

xxxxxxxxxx

[Buck]

Well that's hardly subsistence living.

Actually, subsistence living has kind of a negative connotation.
TV and marketing have done a successful job in making people who produce what they eat look like fools.

I misunderstood.. i believe if one wanted to live a subsistence lifestyle here in the LM they could i believe there are enough seasons and species to do it.

[hunting]

I can't believe how many of these so called " Subsistence Hunters" on these so called "Reality Shows" buy for there hunting rifles after they get paid for the first season? On the one show a young lady is tickled pink cuz she's got a new rifle for providing meat for her family, even the idiot guy narrating the show called it a high powdered rifle, from what I could see it was a tactical type rifle, and the guy said it was a 223. Sure, she's got a 30 round mag in it, but I'd think a ott 6 maybe, 7 Mag, 300 mag etc would be a bit better choice, no??? She shot a Caribou and wounded it, so her and about 9 other kids chased it down and finally killed it. Another part of these "Make Believe" shows is when someone falls into the river or over a 10 thousand foot cliff, is they show the person dam near dieing, but wouldn't you think one of the many camera men, of the producer, or even the "Makeup Crew" would help them long before they died??? What a crock of Sh**! Anyways, if your going to "Live off the Land", take a "Hunting Rifle", don't shoot cows or calves, and good luck!
Many villages in AK due use ..223 rifles and high capacity mags for hunting, due to ammo costs, a box of 375 H&H in Kotz costs $175 US for a box of 20 shells. Chips wife taken a nice grizzly that Squared out at 11 feet with her Mosin Nagant, with LPS FMJ ammo, they don`t use SP ammo.

[HarryToolips]

There are many wild edibles everywhere in BC to help with the subsistence living as well...most not hard to learn, just dedication and practice..

[hunting]

hunting;1615658]Many villages in AK due use ..223 rifles and high capacity mags for hunting, due to ammo costs, a box of 375 H&H in Kotz costs $175 US for a box of 20 shells. Chips wife taken a nice grizzly that Squared out at 11 feet with her Mosin Nagant, with LPS FMJ ammo, they don`t use SP ammo.
For substance hunting, they are allowed 5 caribou per day per person and if they hunt federal land they are allowed 15 caribou per person per day.


River hunting caribou with a 22lr

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=edward%20hailstone&sm=3

[BEAVERBRUCE]

i think he is just saying eating food from the land, not store-bought.
he can still be living in a home and not in a teepee.

my bigger question would be, why?
and remember, those reality shows are mostly bullshit, that's being done for tv, AND they are getting paid.
one should never be getting "inspired" from those garbage shows.
look what happened to that kid in "into the wild".

a key part would be locale.
being in a most suitable climate for everything.
and the far north is definitely NOT the ideal location for that.
your growing season is extremely short and your winters extremely long.

you should see the gardens in Yukon because of 24 hrs of daylight.

[tangozulu]

Hey everyone,

After spending some time with indigenous peoples here in the province, and watching 'Life Below Zero', a reality TV show about subsistence hunters in Alaska, I am inspired to try to relate deeper with the land by hunting and fishing for most of my food (in addition to growing some root vegetables and purchasing some staples like flour).

Question: Does anyone know anyone who is actually living like this in BC or Yukon? I know people are doing it in Alaska, and I know there are indigenous people who live like this, very simply, close to the Earth.

I am thinking in one of the more remote parts of BC... currently I'm in the West Chilcotin and may also explore the area around Atlin and also the Yukon...

But I'm not sure how amenable our hunting regulations are to this sort of thing. It's hard to even estimate how much game meat I would go through in a year. And to know where good hunting grounds are locally, how spread out they are, etc...

I would love to hear any tips you may have.

Thanks,
Mark


Well Shesli Mike lived off the land between Atlin and Telegraph Creek, wait he actually lived by stealing from Trapper Cabins and sometimes murdering the owners. Today not a single person is living beyond the roads from south of Atlin to south of the Taku River and East to the Nahlin, west to Alaska.
Just over the border though, 40000 Alaskan live in Juneau.

[tangozulu]

You could, but do you?


If i was going to live off the land first thing would be to move to the coast where winters are shorter and easier. The ocean allows for much more food diversaty than inland. Bgardening should be better also.

[M.Dean]

Many villages in AK due use ..223 rifles and high capacity mags for hunting, due to ammo costs, a box of 375 H&H in Kotz costs $175 US for a box of 20 shells. Chips wife taken a nice grizzly that Squared out at 11 feet with her Mosin Nagant, with LPS FMJ ammo, they don`t use SP ammo. Thanks for getting my facts straight for me, I though the only reason some people used a 223 is cuz they looked "Cool". Never thought about the price of ammo. Same reason I like shooting my 223 Ruger and the 243, the bullets are real cheap compared to my magnums. My apology's to Chips Wife!

[tangozulu]

Thanks for getting my facts straight for me, I though the only reason some people used a 223 is cuz they looked "Cool". Never thought about the price of ammo. Same reason I like shooting my 223 Ruger and the 243, the bullets are real cheap compared to my magnums. My apology's to Chips Wife!


Pretty sure my current box of 3006 shells is 25 years old and about 25 percent full. It has taken a few moose, a few elk, at least 1 sheep and 2 wolves, Ammo hasnt broken the bank. Perhaps if I needed a 30 round clip it would have been an issue.

[hardnocks]

I think you are still right M Dean its the cool facter of assault rifles with high capacity mags.

One of my very good friends worked for years on the Mackenzie river. He would tell stories about the good shots the Inuit people were. the favorite cartrage at that time was a 22hornet. ammo was expensive so they never wasted a shot.

[edg]

Sue Aikens kick starts her vibrator and rolls her own tampons for sure. TOUGH OLD GAL! But the worst is Alaskan Bush People.

[Gateholio]

Life below zero is the only one I find credible. The Hailstorm family is very remarkable. Sue Aikens is hard as nails and screws up a lot, but doesn't try to hide it. One of the few "reality" shows I watch. Although I watch Mick Dodge too, sine he is such a wingnut, but he freely admits that "it's a TV show, do you believe everything you see on TV?"

[olympia]

Why would you want to do that anyways , nothing but hard life
not much fun in my opinion .

he is not asking if he should do it or not, he is asking if its doable based on your experience which very few are sharing since a lot like to let the original post go astray lol, it is doable, there is only one way to find out. Your gonna have to try and see how you adapt, sink or swim.Your question is hard to answer since we don't have a full account of your experience and abilities

[shottyshooter]

he is not asking if he should do it or not, he is asking if its doable based on your experience which very few are sharing since a lot like to let the original post go astray lol, it is doable, there is only one way to find out. Your gonna have to try and see how you adapt, sink or swim.Your question is hard to answer since we don't have a full account of your experience and abilities

Agree totally - the guy could be asking if it's possible to run a marathon - well yes, but it depends on a lot of factors.

In the case of subsistence living (is he even speaking of "purist", store less, monyless type?) you can totally work your way up to a high degree of self-reliance. I second the goat, chickens etc for year one of your adventure!

[allan]

Why don't you just become a farmer? Raise your own livestock and grow your own veggies, sell what you have excess of to the pay for the rest?! Most people turn their noses up at farmers because they are ill informed. That's what the agriculture industries all about!

The purist live off the land in a hut out in the woods is almost laughable.

[835]

im thinking he doesnt want to become a farmer... or have our type of garden... im thinking he wants to go right off the grid... All the power to him. Probably wont succed but hey,, lots of people do.
The level of skill it would take to go all Albert Johnson is well beyond what is availible on these forums. Which has just been proven. My self i am all for what everyone has stated, i hunt and garden, take my daughter for strolls down the road on saturday morning to buy my eggs and am sourcing out Chicken and pigs locally from a farm i can go drive up the driveway.. Fish is never ending, Dad is retired.....

Way easier to do things like that then go out up a valley in the north and try to stay alive

[hunting]

Thanks for getting my facts straight for me, I though the only reason some people used a 223 is cuz they looked "Cool". Never thought about the price of ammo. Same reason I like shooting my 223 Ruger and the 243, the bullets are real cheap compared to my magnums. My apology's to Chips Wife!
Chips son, not on the show, he hunts everything in SW AK with his .243 even brown bears, they salvage all the meats and hides, nothing goes to waste. During the spring the Bou, has an inky substance in their organs, that the natives use to pain their artwork with. Gas is about $10 dollors a gallon and milk runs about $15 a gallon. Chips wife lost her mom and a sister to the icy river.

[hunting]

I think you are still right M Dean its the cool facter of assault rifles with high capacity mags.

One of my very good friends worked for years on the Mackenzie river. He would tell stories about the good shots the Inuit people were. the favorite cartrage at that time was a 22hornet. ammo was expensive so they never wasted a shot.
The 22 magnum is used alot to for hunting biggame too.

[Sofa King]

you should see the gardens in Yukon because of 24 hrs of daylight.

I'm from the freaking Yukon.
24 hours of light doesn't mean 24 hours of warmth.
and you are leaving out the other end of the spectrum where there is basically 0 hrs of daylight.

a southern locale is a way better choice in terms of farming, gardening, etc.

[markrrr]

Shit man, I did not expect so many awesome replies.. I am just reading them now... Wow.

Just to be clear, my main inspiration comes from indigenous peoples, some of whom (only a small number) still live this way... I've had the good fortune of meeting a few and getting a taste of this life. I think most people flat out prefer the modern conveniences... but I am learning to ask myself over and over, what do I REALLY need.

Everything I own for the past 5 years or so fits in the back of a pickup truck. I have no furniture, no TV, no stereo. I am happy to sh*t on a cold ass outhouse seat (done that when I was living with the Wet'suwet'en people), or live in a shack (did that when I was living with the Shipibo people in the Amazon). I'm not an expert in anything... but I am willing to do things most people are not. I did a traditional plant diet in the Amazon where I ate nothing but rice and river fish, no salt, no oil, no sugar, no spices, no fruit, no vegetables, just eating really basic for 2 months and meditating in a hut and singing to plants.

What this taught me is that many things people consider as essential are not. I think it's a worthwhile quest for anyone to simplify, to ask ourselves what do we really need, what really brings happiness?

As for the reality TV shows, there may be a lot of 'make-up' there, but let's not forget that our ancestors, long ago, lived a much simpler life, without all the 'essential' modern conveniences like running water, central heat, gasoline engines, and so on.

As an experiment, I'm up in the Chilcotin in a cabin right now, and I've been providing for all my heat by cutting and chopping wood with a swede saw and small axe. It's a great workout and I don't mind. People in the city have to go to gyms to make up for the loss in physical activity, because machines and global capitalism provide for all our food, water, shelter, and other needs...

For me this is all about back to basics. I know that it ain't a picnic... but I believe that it is possible.

I'm going to keep reading your comments to see what tasty nuggets I can find in there.

Thanks!!!

Mark

[markrrr]

I was recently at an indigenous camp and they had a root cellar absolutely full, a whole room full of wild meat and fish... everything they had caught themselves... char, salmon, trout, deer, bear, beaver, moose, elk, all canned or smoked, plus pickles... wild greens, cabbage, relishes, jams, berries... potatoes grown in their permaculture garden, onions, garlic, huge squash... I almost couldn't believe it... it was incredible!!! These folks were really drawing on some deep traditions and providing for more of their needs directly from their relationship with the Earth.

Is it just a romantic notion? I think not.

[markrrr]

Food preservation is about canning and smoking food to preserve it for the long haul.
Why would he?

Maybe he doesn't want to be dependent on the government

Yeah, I need to learn canning and smoking... I just built a small pit smoker with a tipi and a blue tarp... not sure if the blue tarp is a good idea (plastic chemicals)... but I'll keep the fire low enough not to burn it.

[markrrr]

are you single or have a family?

Single, but I'd like to live in a small community... preferably one in which several people are licensed hunters, or on an outfitting concession.

[markrrr]

This isn't really complicated. In rural areas all over BC, people are living a close to subsistence lifestyle, even with a normal job. GO hunting for moose, bear and deer for meat, catch a few fish, grow a garden, raise a few chickens and you are more than half way there.

Frankly, if you have a big enough back yard, you can do this in urban areas as well.

Yeah, I'm not necessarily needing to be 100% subsistence... I am just looking to radically simplify, and learn to meet some of my needs from a relationship with the land... pretty simple.

I'm an IT professional by trade. Lots of money there, but I don't really care for amassing wealth, power and status. I just want to live simply in community with healthy relationships and provide for some of my needs without needing global capitalism, processed foods, bottled water etc etc etc to tell me what to eat, drink and how to live.

You know in the dirty 30s there were some folks who rode it through pretty well because they were providing for themselves through the land... Others lost their job and were S.O.L... For me it's not just about being prepared for an uncertain future... It's also about enjoying my body by using it every day, living with gratitude, enjoying the adventure of hunting or fishing with friends, building a connection with where my food comes from, mentoring youth, etc etc etc... Many reasons to seek a simpler life.

To each his own!

[markrrr]

he is not asking if he should do it or not, he is asking if its doable based on your experience which very few are sharing since a lot like to let the original post go astray lol, it is doable, there is only one way to find out. Your gonna have to try and see how you adapt, sink or swim.Your question is hard to answer since we don't have a full account of your experience and abilities

I'm just looking for perspectives... and y'all are giving me lots!!! What I can and can't do... well that's between me and my creator, now isn't it?

[markrrr]

For what it's worth I'm gonna share a link to my site...
http://sacredbalanceschool.tumblr.com

It's a vision for school that teaches how to live as stewards of the Earth.

Perhaps a big vision, but one day at a time, I want to live closer to this vision.

Thank you all for all the amazing responses... I appreciate this community for that... :) I hope one day to learn from you... maybe we will hunt, fish, gather, or grow something together.

Peace,
Mark

[avadad]

Shit man, I did not expect so many awesome replies.. I am just reading them now... Wow.

Just to be clear, my main inspiration comes from indigenous peoples, some of whom (only a small number) still live this way... I've had the good fortune of meeting a few and getting a taste of this life. I think most people flat out prefer the modern conveniences... but I am learning to ask myself over and over, what do I REALLY need.

Everything I own for the past 5 years or so fits in the back of a pickup truck. I have no furniture, no TV, no stereo. I am happy to sh*t on a cold ass outhouse seat (done that when I was living with the Wet'suwet'en people), or live in a shack (did that when I was living with the Shipibo people in the Amazon). I'm not an expert in anything... but I am willing to do things most people are not. I did a traditional plant diet in the Amazon where I ate nothing but rice and river fish, no salt, no oil, no sugar, no spices, no fruit, no vegetables, just eating really basic for 2 months and meditating in a hut and singing to plants.

What this taught me is that many things people consider as essential are not. I think it's a worthwhile quest for anyone to simplify, to ask ourselves what do we really need, what really brings happiness?

As for the reality TV shows, there may be a lot of 'make-up' there, but let's not forget that our ancestors, long ago, lived a much simpler life, without all the 'essential' modern conveniences like running water, central heat, gasoline engines, and so on.

As an experiment, I'm up in the Chilcotin in a cabin right now, and I've been providing for all my heat by cutting and chopping wood with a swede saw and small axe. It's a great workout and I don't mind. People in the city have to go to gyms to make up for the loss in physical activity, because machines and global capitalism provide for all our food, water, shelter, and other needs...

For me this is all about back to basics. I know that it ain't a picnic... but I believe that it is possible.

I'm going to keep reading your comments to see what tasty nuggets I can find in there.

Thanks!!!

Mark

Good luck to you Mark! You may have seen this already but I thought I'd post it up…this guy is a master!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJKd0rkKss

[markrrr]

Good luck to you Mark! You may have seen this already but I thought I'd post it up…this guy is a master!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJKd0rkKss


Yes, such an inspiration- although he did have supplies and food flown in, his life was vastly simpler and more direct than most peoples'. His love of the place was very clear, his woodworking, his ethics... Definitely an inspiration.

[tangozulu]

Every square inch of BC is an outfitter concesion, i dont understand the point. Also chopping wood to heat a home it standard for thousands of families all over BC. I think you fail to realize that most bush peple still have a need and means to earn money. Bush planes, gas and tools all require real dollars. That is the reason most off grid efamilies either fish for salmon, trap, goldmine etc.

[markrrr]

Barter is a viable way to trade for things we don't have. There are many ways to meet our needs. I do have federal money and a good means to earn it. What I am doing is diversifying my income streams, providing for my basic needs from a direct relationship with the land.

But I digress. In this day and age, the culture of capitalism appears to trump all, but it is very fragile.

[andrewscag]

Markrrr, if you don't yet have a fishing license, that's a great place to start for your protein. Quick, easy, and cheap to get. Depending on where you are in the Chilcotin, you can probably get some ice fishing in as soon as today as long as the ice is still solid. You can get a license online here http://www.fishing.gov.bc.ca/ and it will run you $36 for the year. You'll want to make fish a big part of your diet anywhere there's salmon, so consider getting a salmon stamp while you're at it. Just too big of a resource to pass up in this part of the world.

It hasn't been said, but I'll say it - please follow the regulations for fish and game on your adventure. They're there for a reason and are our best estimate of sustainable harvest limits. I have no reason to think that you would't, but hunger can be a strong motivator. Its just as bad of an excuse if you're choosing to pass up store bought food. That's not an emergency, that's poor preparation. Poaching is a huge problem and I'm sure most of them have justifications too. OK, lecture over, have fun! And the nettles are up down here. Keep an eye out up your way, they should be out soon if they arent already. One of the best pot herbs around and they dry very well.

[hardnocks]

Are you native ? If not you will only get a moose draw every once in a long while, so in the chilcotin if you get a doe draw one can shoot 2 deer. may last 2 months , couple bear, another couple months. fish you will have to catch on a hook trout you will not be able to get salmon.

you can supplement yourself with wild game I don`t think you can legally sudsist on it.

[adriaticum]

Lots of these guys, including Dick Proenneke, Heimo Korth and others have people fly in basic supplies. Flour, salt, sugar, rice, cereal etc.
They are not 100 percent self-sustained.
The biggest thing is to understand the edibles around where you live and you can probably get most of your nutrition that you need other than meat.
You also have to get over eating some of the things you would not normally eat while you are living spoiled in the city.
Like organs, animal intestines etc.
It's sure an interesting topic.

[adriaticum]

you can supplement yourself with wild game I don`t think you can legally sudsist on it.

Why would you not be able to legally subsist on it?
There is no law that says you can't.
You can do it if you can kill enough and have the know how and the means to preserve it.

[hardnocks]

where in bc is their any subsistence laws for non aboriganals . if you do not have a tag its not legal to shoot it . if you are going to drive all over the prov. to fill tags is not really subsistence living.

[Wild one]

where in bc is their any subsistence laws for non aboriganals . if you do not have a tag its not legal to shoot it . if you are going to drive all over the prov. to fill tags is not really subsistence living.


There is a large number of people in remote parts of BC who don't buy meat.

Think beyond just big game and look at small game/fish as well and it really is not a far stretch. Throw in raising a cow and or some chickens and it really is not that hard in many locations.

I personally know people who do not eat store bought meat and hunt or raise their own. All legal no poaching and they don't travel far to hunt most with an hour or 2 from home.

This is can be done but location is a big part of it

[adriaticum]

where in bc is their any subsistence laws for non aboriganals . if you do not have a tag its not legal to shoot it . if you are going to drive all over the prov. to fill tags is not really subsistence living.

Subsistence living does not excuse you from following the law.
Nothing you do is excluded from following the law.
All subsistence people, including first nations, follow the law.
It's just that law for them is different than law for you and I.

I guess you do need to have a license and a tag, so you do need cash.
Subsistence to me means producing all or majority of your food.
It doesn't stop your from driving around or having contact with the civilization.
You could do subsistence living in the city too.
But government has ensured that you can't ever be independent and free of it's leash.
With all the taxes. So you do need to make money and work/trade/barter or whatever to pay your taxes.
Property, utilities, medical etc.


Now maybe you are thinking about wilderness living/survival long term.
That's a different can of worms.

[hardnocks]

so if you are going to raise cows and chickens you have to feed them . that means owning land buying hay or haying equipment. now you need a pretty good job to buy all this stuff.

subsistence living means living off the land .making your living of the land.

[Wild one]

so if you are going to raise cows and chickens you have to feed them . that means owning land buying hay or haying equipment. now you need a pretty good job to buy all this stuff.

subsistence living means living off the land .making your living of the land.

They have jobs but don't have big land and live where it is cheap to buy land. No crazy equipment to raise and handful of chickens or 1 or 2 cows. Does not take a crazy amount of feed either.

Talking being able to provide your meat not living free. There is a lot of ways to cut back on food costs

I would assume you live close to a major town or city.

[markrrr]

Markrrr, if you don't yet have a fishing license, that's a great place to start for your protein. Quick, easy, and cheap to get. Depending on where you are in the Chilcotin, you can probably get some ice fishing in as soon as today as long as the ice is still solid. You can get a license online here http://www.fishing.gov.bc.ca/ and it will run you $36 for the year. You'll want to make fish a big part of your diet anywhere there's salmon, so consider getting a salmon stamp while you're at it. Just too big of a resource to pass up in this part of the world.

It hasn't been said, but I'll say it - please follow the regulations for fish and game on your adventure. They're there for a reason and are our best estimate of sustainable harvest limits. I have no reason to think that you would't, but hunger can be a strong motivator. Its just as bad of an excuse if you're choosing to pass up store bought food. That's not an emergency, that's poor preparation. Poaching is a huge problem and I'm sure most of them have justifications too. OK, lecture over, have fun! And the nettles are up down here. Keep an eye out up your way, they should be out soon if they arent already. One of the best pot herbs around and they dry very well.

Thank you Andrew! :)

I do have a fishing license.. I've been trying to ice fish just on existing holes here in the Cariboo, just using a stick, about 20 feet of 8# test line with a ruby eyes flasher and a little hot pink hook floating about a foot below it with some artificial bait. Not much luck so far. I heard from the locals that the fish aren't biting much right now... but then again I'm just inexperienced.

I'm planning on practicing some lake and river fishing here in the spring now that the waters are starting to thaw up.

This year is all about practice and baby steps!

Thanks!

[markrrr]

Lots of these guys, including Dick Proenneke, Heimo Korth and others have people fly in basic supplies. Flour, salt, sugar, rice, cereal etc.
They are not 100 percent self-sustained.
The biggest thing is to understand the edibles around where you live and you can probably get most of your nutrition that you need other than meat.
You also have to get over eating some of the things you would not normally eat while you are living spoiled in the city.
Like organs, animal intestines etc.
It's sure an interesting topic.

True 'nuff... I'm not a purist. I like some amount of technology, and I don't want to avoid the global economy completely. I just don't want to be so enmeshed in it. Right?

For example, why pay for misery meat (factory farmed chickens) when I can raise them myself, or hunt small game? Big game for that matter (assuming its legal, I'm not interested in poaching). Why pay for smoked fish when I can drop a line myself, if the lakes and rivers are in good shape...

Now bringing in inexpensive salt, sugar and some basic grains makes sense... Calorically, it's cost effective, these supplies last a long time and are useful. Same thing with basic tools. An axe, lasts a long time, cost effective. There is a bushcraft saying, knowledge weighs nothing. You can do a lot with a root cellar, a small garden, some fermenting, canning and smoking skill and a creative, keen mind. No need to be shackled to mortgages or jobs you hate. I'm going to prove it.

I thought BC had special rules and quotas for subsistence hunters. I didn't think this was defined by your race or ancestry, but by your income level... is that not correct?

Out here in the West Chilcotin it seems like hunting and fishing are quite good. Not many 'jobs' by city standards but if you make your living from the land and are willing to do honest work, then why not subsist?

In Peru I ate anticucho de corazon (marinated heart). Delicious. I eat liver. I boil bones for 3 days to make a nourishing broth (anyone ever heard of Sally Fallon?). Heck, you might even get me to eat brains one day.

I love all these great responses and debate y'all are having... so cool.

I think the main reason people do not live a subsistence lifestyle is because of global capitalism. Because we have gotten used to living by the corporate dollar, the corporate schedule, letting someone else kill our meat for us, letting someone else build our house for us, letting someone else manage the forest for us, pull the minerals out of the Earth for us, and the middle-man always marks everything up, the middle-man isn't thinking of our needs... he's thinking of his own profit.

This is about direct relationship with the Earth. It may not be easy to provide for our own needs, but I believe it can be done. Anyway, I'm going to find out!

:)

[tangozulu]

Subsistence is alaska

[hardnocks]

They have jobs but don't have big land and live where it is cheap to buy land. No crazy equipment to raise and handful of chickens or 1 or 2 cows. Does not take a crazy amount of feed either.

Talking being able to provide your meat not living free. There is a lot of ways to cut back on food costs

I would assume you live close to a major town or city.
markrr is talking about subsistence living in the chilcoton do you have any idea how much land it takes to keep one cow. one cow= 30 acers per year. chickens don`t lay in the -50 you get in the chilcoten . . markrr is talking about atlin how are you going to keep a cow in atlin. and no I don`t live near a city and I was raised on subsistence hunting.

[Wild one]

markrr is talking about subsistence living in the chilcoton do you have any idea how much land it takes to keep one cow. one cow= 30 acers per year. chickens don`t lay in the -50 you get in the chilcoten . . markrr is talking about atlin how are you going to keep a cow in atlin. and no I don`t live near a city and I was raised on subsistence hunting.

Not even going to bother continue on

[ruger#1]

markrr is talking about subsistence living in the chilcoton do you have any idea how much land it takes to keep one cow. one cow= 30 acers per year. chickens don`t lay in the -50 you get in the chilcoten . . markrr is talking about atlin how are you going to keep a cow in atlin. and no I don`t live near a city and I was raised on subsistence hunting.
Then he can get a goat. They eat everything and their milk is better for you, And you can eat the meat. Chickens would have trouble surviving. -50 temps. Need a barn with heat and a light on to make the winters days longer.

[adriaticum]

markrr is talking about subsistence living in the chilcoton do you have any idea how much land it takes to keep one cow. one cow= 30 acers per year. chickens don`t lay in the -50 you get in the chilcoten . . markrr is talking about atlin how are you going to keep a cow in atlin. and no I don`t live near a city and I was raised on subsistence hunting.

The same way they do it in Alaska.
It is doable but it is hard work.

[adriaticum]

Markrr i don't necessarily blame global capitalism for lack of subsistence living.
It's really quite simple.
People don't do it because its hard work and goverment wants to make sure you can't do it.
Plus the main reason is population.
Imagine if everyone was doing it.
There wouldn't be enough wild game to go around in the entire world to sustain just north american population

[Gateholio]

MArkrrr

One book I found really helpful when I bought my small acreage and started clearing and building everything by hand was Carla Emerys Encyclopedia of COuntry Living. It's geared more towards the person who wants a simple "country" lifestyle, raising and preserving your own food than someone eating solely from wild sources. It's got lots of information and links and resources.

Many forgotten gems about fermentation, root cellaring and keeping chickens happy.

I also think we spend too much time working so we can buy stuff that we may or may not need. I'm certainly guilty of that, but I try. :) While I have always worked, one huge bonus of trying to live a simple, downscaled life is that I've been able to take long stretches of time off of work. Several times I've quit my job and gone 6-18 months without a job. Try that with a huge mortgage! :)

The only time we buy meat or poultry or fish is when we are eating out or we want to. Most of our vegetables come from the garden in summer and about 50% in the winter. When I build a new root cellar we hope to be buying even less. This is with not really much effort to be real "subsistence" types.

By putting in a real solid effort like you want to do, I think you will do fine. :)

[MichelD]

"I thought BC had special rules and quotas for subsistence hunters."

Nope, here was once a sustenance permit you could apply for, but it does not exist any more. You had to prove dire hardship,as in being broke, having no savings, ineligible for welfare, etc., etc. yada yada.

Lots of good advice here.

[andrewscag]

Thank you Andrew! :)

I do have a fishing license.. I've been trying to ice fish just on existing holes here in the Cariboo, just using a stick, about 20 feet of 8# test line with a ruby eyes flasher and a little hot pink hook floating about a foot below it with some artificial bait. Not much luck so far. I heard from the locals that the fish aren't biting much right now... but then again I'm just inexperienced.

I'm planning on practicing some lake and river fishing here in the spring now that the waters are starting to thaw up.

This year is all about practice and baby steps!

Thanks!

Try some live bait. You should run into some while splitting wood ;-)

[markrrr]

markrr is talking about subsistence living in the chilcoton do you have any idea how much land it takes to keep one cow. one cow= 30 acers per year. chickens don`t lay in the -50 you get in the chilcoten . . markrr is talking about atlin how are you going to keep a cow in atlin. and no I don`t live near a city and I was raised on subsistence hunting.

There are folks here who raise chickens and sell the eggs... As for the cow, obviously that depends on good land for grazing- but I'm not too keen on getting too into intensive animal husbandry other than perhaps the simpler stuff (for example, chickens and a goat), as I'm more drawn to paleo approach than farming/agriculture.

[markrrr]

Thank you Gatehouse... I will check out that Encyclopedia of Country Living...

It's inspiring to hear that you've been able to reduce your dependence on outside work and live more simply in relationship with the land where you live... how did you manage to avoid a big mortgage in Pemberton- it's pretty pricey there no? Have you been there for a long time?

I'm a big fan of fermentation. Stuff keeps great without refridgeration. The grocery store is 300 km away and I bought some cabbage, carrots and garlic on my last run 3 weeks ago... Now that I made a tasty ferment with it, it's doing just great on the counter and keeps getting tastier every day.

Same thing with dairy. Raw milk = awesome. Kefir = awesome and self reproducing. Craime fraiche, oh my God it's delicious with berries and so easy to make.

Call me if you want a hand building your new root cellar. I'm always game to learn new things!!! :)

Thanks again for the tips,

Thanks to everyone who is in on this discussion...

I think it's important to consider any changes we can make to our lives. We can't always depend on our jobs working for someone else to provide for us. To me, resiliency means being creative, using different ways to meet our needs. A good book I keep coming back to is 'Your Money or Your Life'. Another one is 'Clutter Busting'.

And there's also a value to teaching the next generation how to live simpler and in balance. So many kids nowadays living on their cell phones don't even know how to listen to Nature- don't even know the value of what is being lost... Commercials marketing the latest gizmo. I grew up in the city, pretty disconnected from my body and from the land. I played a lot of video games in the 80s. Nowadays I write iPhone apps for a living. But I'm also very critical of the direction of the modern world. So much is being lost. So I'm trying to change my life to live closer to the land.

I think hunting has a real value because it teaches kids about life and death, gratitude for our food, and connects them with Nature... when it's done with respect.

Just my newbie 2c.

Mark


MArkrrr

One book I found really helpful when I bought my small acreage and started clearing and building everything by hand was Carla Emerys Encyclopedia of COuntry Living. It's geared more towards the person who wants a simple "country" lifestyle, raising and preserving your own food than someone eating solely from wild sources. It's got lots of information and links and resources.

Many forgotten gems about fermentation, root cellaring and keeping chickens happy.

I also think we spend too much time working so we can buy stuff that we may or may not need. I'm certainly guilty of that, but I try. :) While I have always worked, one huge bonus of trying to live a simple, downscaled life is that I've been able to take long stretches of time off of work. Several times I've quit my job and gone 6-18 months without a job. Try that with a huge mortgage! :)

The only time we buy meat or poultry or fish is when we are eating out or we want to. Most of our vegetables come from the garden in summer and about 50% in the winter. When I build a new root cellar we hope to be buying even less. This is with not really much effort to be real "subsistence" types.

By putting in a real solid effort like you want to do, I think you will do fine. :)

[argyle1]

You won't find much minus 50 weather in the Chilcotin or any where else. We did have a lot of 40 below weather 50 years ago in the central interior, and our chickens and milk cow didn't have any problem. The chickens nested in the barn with the cow and calf in the winter. I miss that lifestyle but my wife says if we go back to it, it would be my turn to milk the cow, pack the water (and chop the water hole), split the wood, weed the garden, and shovel the snow, so I guess I'm stuck living the easy life
It's true as you move north the growing season shortens, but the days are a lot longer. Because of that you can grow a better garden in the Yukon than you can in PG.

[markrrr]

You won't find much minus 50 weather in the Chilcotin or any where else. We did have a lot of 40 below weather 50 years ago in the central interior, and our chickens and milk cow didn't have any problem. The chickens nested in the barn with the cow and calf in the winter. I miss that lifestyle but my wife says if we go back to it, it would be my turn to milk the cow, pack the water (and chop the water hole), split the wood, weed the garden, and shovel the snow, so I guess I'm stuck living the easy life
It's true as you move north the growing season shortens, but the days are a lot longer. Because of that you can grow a better garden in the Yukon than you can in PG.

I love hearing these stories about how folks live, the working life of crafting a life from a relationship with the land.

:)

Peace

[Gateholio]

Mark, I'm far from independent, but I'm close to a pretty good balance. Things in Pemberton can be expensive, but I bought 5.5 acres when I was 25 in about 1992 for $40K with my life savings and built a small house for cash.

I sometimes want a bigger house, but I think if I do build another slightly larger house it will be an earthship.

[andrewscag]

You won't find much minus 50 weather in the Chilcotin or any where else. We did have a lot of 40 below weather 50 years ago in the central interior, and our chickens and milk cow didn't have any problem. The chickens nested in the barn with the cow and calf in the winter. I miss that lifestyle but my wife says if we go back to it, it would be my turn to milk the cow, pack the water (and chop the water hole), split the wood, weed the garden, and shovel the snow, so I guess I'm stuck living the easy life
It's true as you move north the growing season shortens, but the days are a lot longer. Because of that you can grow a better garden in the Yukon than you can in PG.

I'll take my garden here over a garden in the Yukon any day. ;-) The asparagus is up, onions, garlic, rhubarb, and artichokes too. And still eating fresh squash,garlic, and potatoes plus everything we put up last season. Pretty productive area we live in here. Its easier to travel to hunt than travel to garden.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I'll take my garden here over a garden in the Yukon any day. ;-) The asparagus is up, onions, garlic, rhubarb, and artichokes too. And still eating fresh squash,garlic, and potatoes plus everything we put up last season. Pretty productive area we live in here. Its easier to travel to hunt than travel to garden.

Your right, I lived in Langley for 35 years there is great gardening............but you still live in LML.

[Trigger Happy]

there is enough open seasons to live through sustenance by just hunting during the hunting season. you have spring bear, deer, elk moose etc. also the fishing in the chilcotin is top notch. pick berries In the summer etc. I've never really thought about living through sustenance but I'm sure it could be doable. would require huge effort to make it happen but good luck in your research.

awesome advice :)

[andrewscag]

Your right, I lived in Langley for 35 years there is great gardening............but you still live in LML.

All we need is one good zombie apocalypse and it'll be perfect :-)

[Hanrahan]

Go to the Charlottes. Deer season 9 months out of the year and you're allowed 15. Catch, can and smoke all the salmon you can during the summer and fall. Pick berries and make jam. Put up a greenhouse and grow whatever you want without worrying about winter. Get some chickens for eggs. Maybe a couple goats for milk. Make your own cheese. Just about the only place you could really feasibly live off the land still. And if you get a craving for ice cream or chips, the grocery store is not far away. Still need a job though.

[Rhyla]

It depends what exactly you're asking. Being 100% self-reliant would be extraordinarily difficult. Subsistence hunting to cover your meat needs, is easily doable.

My husband and I are going on 5 years having not bought meat. The first two years were tough. If I recall each year we had only three small (Sitka blacktail) deer between us for the year. The spring of year 3 we each got a black bear, and I believe I got 1 deer and he got 3 in the fall if I recall correctly (I'd have to go back and check our tags to confirm). This was the first time we were able to stop hunting before the last day of the season and not feel the need to ration our meat. Year 4 my husband got a moose and we each got 2 deer. We're going into year 5 now with plenty of meat still in the freezer. Each year we also had various small game (raccoon, pidgeon, duck, goose, grouse) and some small amounts of fish but small game and fish made up a negligible portion of our diet.

Where we're at now we've just started to raise rabbits to help supplement if we have a bad hunting year and to give us an option that isn't red meat. We have canned our own fruit juices for the last two years, and have not bought any from the store in over a year. We're working towards the same sort of self-sufficiency in fruits and vegetables. I don't think we're far off. My hope is that within the next two years we will not be buying any fruits or vegetables in the store. We do water-bath and pressure canning, steam juicing, render our own lard/tallow for cooking oils, make our own beer/wine/mead, forage wild plants, dehydrate fruits and vegetables, bake our own bread, make and smoke our own sausages. And we do it both with full-time jobs, within legal hunting seasons, and living on 1/4 acre. So it is definitely doable.

If we needed to, of course we could go to the store and buy meat. But we don't, and we generally treat it as if we can't. Until there is some meat in the freezer, we definitely feel the pressure, and getting a large animal like a bear or a moose takes a big weight off our shoulders. I think, as long as we had something, we'd ration and make do like we did the first two years, rather than go to the store and buy meat. Having rabbits now will help with that for sure.

We are not, and never will be able to supply everything we need. We don't have the space to grow our own grains, or the climate to grow our own coffee, and we can't raise bees for honey because my husband is deathly allergic to them, and due to city bylaws where we live we can not raise goats/cows to produce our own dairy. We also simply don't have the TIME to do everything, but we fit in and do what we can. So it really depends "how far" you're talking about taking it.

My advice would be to start small. If we had tried to do everything we're doing now all at the beginning we would have given up. It would have been too much and too hard. But you do one thing long enough and it just becomes part of your routine, and then you are able to add something else in. Piece by piece it all comes together.

If you want to talk more about any of this, shoot me a PM.

[Sofa King]

You won't find much minus 50 weather in the Chilcotin or any where else. We did have a lot of 40 below weather 50 years ago in the central interior, and our chickens and milk cow didn't have any problem. The chickens nested in the barn with the cow and calf in the winter. I miss that lifestyle but my wife says if we go back to it, it would be my turn to milk the cow, pack the water (and chop the water hole), split the wood, weed the garden, and shovel the snow, so I guess I'm stuck living the easy life
It's true as you move north the growing season shortens, but the days are a lot longer. Because of that you can grow a better garden in the Yukon than you can in PG.

ice isn't off the lakes until the beginning of june in the yukon.
and it's getting frosty again in late august.
those relatively few long summer days do not make up for the more numerous dark days of winter.
and don't forget the higher prices of the groceries that one does have to buy.
plus the lesser variety.
plus the empty store shelves when the highway washes out at Watson lake.

the far north always seems more appealing because of it's remoteness and ways-of-the-wild feeling it still holds.
one really could still go out and build out in the bush and try to live.
but it's short summers and long winters make it a much less desirable location for that compared to the south.
survival would be much easier down here.
there's a reason that Victoria has the high rate of homeless people.

one thing that all of us could/should do, and I think very few actually are, is take advantage of other sources of energy, such as solar, wind, etc.