GOABC Convention in Kelowna

[Redo]

First off, a huge thank you to all of the resident hunters who headed to Victoria to make our voice known!

I checked out the GOABC website tonight and was inondated with advertising for their annual convention March 26-28 in Kelowna.

Any rallies or protests planned" Would love to be involved with my son!

[dakoda62]

Resident hunter's should be here en-mass with placards and sign's

[bigdogeh]

I think this needs to happen also. no more mister nice guy. the people going to these conventions, a very large percentage are non-resident GOABC supporters there with their checkbooks and money to pledge to their association. they need to see that we as resident hunters are not happy with the direction of their association, GOABC, and will fight this allocation issue. we had a good turnout at the legislature. we need a good turnout at their convention also. their supporters need to know what's going on and know that we aren't going to let this one go. even if it takes protesting this convention and every convention of theirs in BC into the future. we aren't going away.
they plotted against us behind closed doors. we can do it out in the open for all to see.
Thompson and Christie were sure to be at their last GOABC convention to collect their nice little trophy awards and get in for their photo ops. let's see if they'll be at this convention and give them a nice welcome if they attend. I'm sure GOABC has a few more awards to hand out to them. and christie and thompson will probably be there with OUR checkbook ready to write more checks...

[Wild one]

A recommendation if there is going to be a protest at the GOABC have police/media presents and all resident hunters must understand no matter what keep a cool head. You are bringing this strait to the GOABC with a protest at the convention not just speaking to govt and the public.

With high tensions between the GOABC and resident hunters this is a protest that could get ugly. If resident hunters can keep cool no problem but if they act up it can make us look bad.

Don't have an issue with this as a protest just be sure to keep it civil don't want to do damage to the big picture

[FirePower]

My only concern on this great idea would be that the convention and surrounding area will most probably be held on private land, our acces may not be as easy and legal as the other rallies. I do believe this to be a great idea pending on legal access.

[bassplayer]

My only concern on this great idea would be that the convention and surrounding area will most probably be held on private land, our acces may not be as easy and legal as the other rallies. I do believe this to be a great idea pending on legal access.
I believe they hold it at the Grand Hotel.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Sidewalks are public, no??

[bigdogeh]

Sidewalks are public, no??

I hope so. :)

[guest]

A recommendation if there is going to be a protest at the GOABC have police/media presents and all resident hunters must understand no matter what keep a cool head. You are bringing this strait to the GOABC with a protest at the convention not just speaking to govt and the public.

With high tensions between the GOABC and resident hunters this is a protest that could get ugly. If resident hunters can keep cool no problem but if they act up it can make us look bad.

Don't have an issue with this as a protest just be sure to keep it civil don't want to do damage to the big picture

I think a civil protest here is good. Cool heads must prevail . BUT.

If you think it may get ugly there at the convention, imagine what may take place out in the bush the next couple years ........ The Liberals have made this relationship the WORST IT HAS EVER BEEN. WAY TO GO MINISTER THOMSON....... Your the referee here, the puck is in your hand to get through this game. in my opinion you know .

CT

[Stone Sheep Steve]

When is the last time Clark actually missed a GOABC convention??
She's been side-stepping the entire issue even though she's giving the orders.


SSS

[Fisher-Dude]

Sidewalks are public, no??

Not any longer. 40% of sidewalks are for foreigners. :twisted:

[DarekG]

Not any longer. 40% of sidewalks are for foreigners. :twisted:

Hopefully I can find a sidewalk guide to show me where to congregate!

[Wild one]

I think a civil protest here is good. Cool heads must prevail . BUT.

If you think it may get ugly there at the convention, imagine what may take place out in the bush the next couple years ........ The Liberals have made this relationship the WORST IT HAS EVER BEEN. WAY TO GO MINISTER THOMSON....... Your the referee here, the puck is in your hand to get through this game. in my opinion you know .

CT


Agree but it is best to be prepared taking this directly to the GOABC

Tempers may flair is all I am saying lets not give them anything to under mind the cause or use against us is all

And no lazier pointers lol

[Cub Driver]

Not convinced this is a good idea. They are probably expecting it to happen and planning their response. The G/Os out lobbied us as they set that as their business priority. Out fight is with the government as only they can change the allocation process. For those who may question my motive, I am not anti guide outfitter. I attended the Fort St John and Victoria rallies, one of the original members of RAMS and an advocate for resident priority. The RAMS fight was with the provincial government and that has not changed. We need to get on side with RAHPF, raise funds, get the true facts out there, and out lobby those would restrict our fair access allocation.

[bigdogeh]

Hopefully I can find a sidewalk guide to show me where to congregate!


lol, .......

[Foxton Gundogs]

Sidewalks are public, no??

Most correct, but I get FPs point should it have been held at a resort of some such location.

[bassplayer]

When is the last time Clark actually missed a GOABC convention??
She's been side-stepping the entire issue even though she's giving the orders.


SSS
Guarantee you Clark and Thompson will be in attendance yet again to receive their gift baskets.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

And no lazier pointers lol

I heard Mooseman is now packing a mirror around so he's safe.

[one-shot-wonder]

Not convinced this is a good idea. They are probably expecting it to happen and planning their response. The G/Os out lobbied us as they set that as their business priority. Out fight is with the government as only they can change the allocation process. For those who may question my motive, I am not anti guide outfitter. I attended the Fort St John and Victoria rallies, one of the original members of RAMS and an advocate for resident priority. The RAMS fight was with the provincial government and that has not changed. We need to get on side with RAHPF, raise funds, get the true facts out there, and out lobby those would restrict our fair access allocation.

I agree with Cub!

[Ambush]

Yes, our fight is with the government but only because of the GOABC.

If you want to stop the show, is it better to take out the puppet or the puppeteer? And who is pulling the strings in this case?

A large presence at the GOABC convention would be a very good thing. And it would only get ugly if members of the GOABC made it get ugly, resulting in good publicity for us.

After all Ellis and a few other guides attended the resident's rallies.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Yes, our fight is with the government but only because of the GOABC.

If you want to stop the show, is it better to take out the puppet or the puppeteer? And who is pulling the strings in this case?

A large presence at the GOABC convention would be a very good thing. And it would only get ugly if members of the GOABC made it get ugly, resulting in good publicity for us.

After all Ellis and a few other guides attended the resident's rallies.

I agree with Ambush.
Plus I'm laying odds CC and Thomson will both be there as per the norm.

[bigdogeh]

Yes, our fight is with the government but only because of the GOABC.

If you want to stop the show, is it better to take out the puppet or the puppeteer? And who is pulling the strings in this case?

A large presence at the GOABC convention would be a very good thing. And it would only get ugly if members of the GOABC made it get ugly, resulting in good publicity for us.

After all Ellis and a few other guides attended the resident's rallies.


I have faith the resident hunters could keep their kewl. not so sure about the guides. but i think it would be good publicity to keep the pressure on.
and i hold both sides equally accountable (goabc and the libs) but that's just me. I see goabc as the dealer and the libs as the addict. goabc keeps selling the koolaid and the libs keep drinking it in. both sides can't get enough of our resources. (tax money and wildlife)

[Ozone]

I wonder if Ellis will let someone speak on our behalf?

[Salty]

I think its a very good idea that we attend and keep it professional and courteous. I think we also need some media there. Our media, the resident hunter's media be it trail cams or go pros. lol. Seriously I think some video footage even on the outside of who attends would be extremely valuable at this point. ;)

[Seeker]

I think a showing would be great. All it does is bring more attention to the cause. More opportunity to expose this unfairness to the general public. It would most certainly be the most hostile of environments that we have had to deal with to date, but could also be one of the most effective. As people have said, composure is critical, if anyone is to loose their cool, let it be the guides. The hot headed individual will almost certainly be the one to draw the most negative attention. If we threaten to have a presence, I would not be surprised in the least to see Clark and Thomson pass on making an appearance. There has been a lot of negative public exposure from the rally as to the favoured relationship that the Liberal's have with the GOABC (2000 meetings between them). If they want to avoid further public criticism, they will not want to be seen at the convention and that lack of support would be a win for us. Sponsors are pulling out already, now if the politicians start to distance themselves, we are slowly but surely pulling the support we need away from the GOABC. I think it is a good idea and I will be there if there is a rally.

[Ambush]

And somewhere along the line we need to blow that ridiculously bogus "60 animals" BS right out of the water!

As soon as the public realizes that they are lying [in very a creative way] they will just assume that they are lying about all the rest of it to.

We must attack their credibility where there is none!

[Wild one]

And somewhere along the line we need to blow that ridiculously bogus "60 animals" BS right out of the water!

As soon as the public realizes that they are lying [in very a creative way] they will just assume that they are lying about all the rest of it to.

We must attack their credibility where there is none!

Agree this should have been addressed early on

[coach]

Not convinced this is a good idea. They are probably expecting it to happen and planning their response. The G/Os out lobbied us as they set that as their business priority. Out fight is with the government as only they can change the allocation process. For those who may question my motive, I am not anti guide outfitter. I attended the Fort St John and Victoria rallies, one of the original members of RAMS and an advocate for resident priority. The RAMS fight was with the provincial government and that has not changed. We need to get on side with RAHPF, raise funds, get the true facts out there, and out lobby those would restrict our fair access allocation.


I agree with Cub!

I agree. Our issue really is with the government. To date, we have been quite strategic in our rallies. Prince George was held outside a caucus meeting. Kelowna was a march to Christy Clark's office. 100 Mile stung Donna Barnett enough that she's turned on Thomson. Victoria engaged all of the political parties and we showed GOABC that we aren't actually a bunch of radicals with our hair on fire..

IMO - a demonstration outside the GOABC convention is a reactive move rather than a proactive one. Sure, we are pissed off at them and don't like their lobbying or strategies to trivialize our concerns, but we aren't likely to gain anything by potentially getting into a nasty confrontation outside a major hotel here in Kelowna.

We need to stick to a plan to put political pressure on our government so that this policy is changed. We need to make it clear that we are still fighting this because we are more concerned than ever that our GOS seasons will become LEH. We need to let the public know that LEH is not an answer and will always result in conflict between the two sides. We need to advocate for more funding for wildlife management and we need to work on making more wildlife. We need to stand up for ourselves when individual guides go on the offensive and scare sheep away from resident hunters or when they call CO's or Parks and report residents for bullshit "infractions" that have no merit whatsoever. We need to go public when this kind of stuff happens and make it impossible for those tactics to continue. We need to fight to stop "special privileges" such as guides using motorized vehicles behind road closures while residents are forced to walk (IMO - nobody should be using a vehicle behind a closure).

We can do all of that through government and media. We don't need to make a huge stand outside the GOABC convention to be successful. In my brief conversation with Mr Ellis, Mr Werner and Mr Glaicar at the Victoria Rally - they commented that all of "this" has been bad for hunting especially because it looks like hunters fighting hunters. My response was that I disagreed. I told them that I think it's great that hunters have gotten off their asses and gotten involved; they've written letters to their MLA's, they've engaged the four major political parties in this province and as a result, all of government is talking about hunting right now. When the allocation battle is finally behind us, hunters will have learned that being engaged in the political process can make a difference - hopefully next time it's about wildlife and not about how to divide a diminishing resource. In the end, I believe my comments had an effect and they may have even agreed somewhat with me. I told the same thing to Jill Kropp in my Global TV interview on Tuesday. I mentioned how hunting has become popular again and how the largest demographic of new hunters in women and youth.

I really think we can be successful if we channel our enthusiasm and remain strategic in our battle. The potential for a rally outside the GOABC convention to backfire is very high - and not something I want to be part of. Of course, I'm only speaking for myself here. It's up to others to decide what they want to do.

[Salty]

You got it Ambush we need to move the headlines from the bloody grizzly hunt of all things to what this issue is actually about, the Allocation Policy! And we need to point out the lies.

[kayjayess]

I agree. Our issue really is with the government. To date, we have been quite strategic in our rallies. Prince George was held outside a caucus meeting. Kelowna was a march to Christy Clark's office. 100 Mile stung Donna Barnett enough that she's turned on Thomson. Victoria engaged all of the political parties and we showed GOABC that we aren't actually a bunch of radicals with our hair on fire..

IMO - a demonstration outside the GOABC convention is a reactive move rather than a proactive one. Sure, we are pissed off at them and don't like their lobbying or strategies to trivialize our concerns, but we aren't likely to gain anything by potentially getting into a nasty confrontation outside a major hotel here in Kelowna.

We need to stick to a plan to put political pressure on our government so that this policy is changed. We need to make it clear that we are still fighting this because we are more concerned than ever that our GOS seasons will become LEH. We need to let the public know that LEH is not an answer and will always result in conflict between the two sides. We need to advocate for more funding for wildlife management and we need to work on making more wildlife. We need to stand up for ourselves when individual guides go on the offensive and scare sheep away from resident hunters or when they call CO's or Parks and report residents for bullshit "infractions" that have no merit whatsoever. We need to go public when this kind of stuff happens and make it impossible for those tactics to continue. We need to fight to stop "special privileges" such as guides using motorized vehicles behind road closures while residents are forced to walk (IMO - nobody should be using a vehicle behind a closure).

We can do all of that through government and media. We don't need to make a huge stand outside the GOABC convention to be successful. In my brief conversation with Mr Ellis, Mr Werner and Mr Glaicar at the Victoria Rally - they commented that all of "this" has been bad for hunting especially because it looks like hunters fighting hunters. My response was that I disagreed. I told them that I think it's great that hunters have gotten off their asses and gotten involved; they've written letters to their MLA's, they've engaged the four major political parties in this province and as a result, all of government is talking about hunting right now. In the end, I believe my comments had an effect and they agreed somewhat with me. I told the same thing to Jill Kropp in my Global TV interview on Tuesday. I mentioned how hunting has become popular again and how the largest demographic of new hunters in women and youth.

I really think we can be successful if we channel our enthusiasm and remain strategic in our battle. The potential for a rally outside the GOABC convention to backfire is very high - and not something I want to be part of. Of course, I'm only speaking for myself here. It's up to others to decide what they want to do.

I have to echo coach's comments. Although we are losing hunting opportunity at the expense of Guide Outfitters it is the government that is making these decisions. And they will be the ones to change them not GOABC. Any amount of rallying in from of GOABCs headquarters is not going to alter GOABCs opinion. And I don't believe it will sway public opinion either. In my opinion we need to focus on the government and keep the pressure up strategically on them.

[The Dawg]

I agree. Our issue really is with the government. To date, we have been quite strategic in our rallies. Prince George was held outside a caucus meeting. Kelowna was a march to Christy Clark's office. 100 Mile stung Donna Barnett enough that she's turned on Thomson. Victoria engaged all of the political parties and we showed GOABC that we aren't actually a bunch of radicals with our hair on fire..

IMO - a demonstration outside the GOABC convention is a reactive move rather than a proactive one. Sure, we are pissed off at them and don't like their lobbying or strategies to trivialize our concerns, but we aren't likely to gain anything by potentially getting into a nasty confrontation outside a major hotel here in Kelowna.

We need to stick to a plan to put political pressure on our government so that this policy is changed. We need to make it clear that we are still fighting this because we are more concerned than ever that our GOS seasons will become LEH. We need to let the public know that LEH is not an answer and will always result in conflict between the two sides. We need to advocate for more funding for wildlife management and we need to work on making more wildlife. We need to stand up for ourselves when individual guides go on the offensive and scare sheep away from resident hunters or when they call CO's or Parks and report residents for bullshit "infractions" that have no merit whatsoever. We need to go public when this kind of stuff happens and make it impossible for those tactics to continue. We need to fight to stop "special privileges" such as guides using motorized vehicles behind road closures while residents are forced to walk (IMO - nobody should be using a vehicle behind a closure).

We can do all of that through government and media. We don't need to make a huge stand outside the GOABC convention to be successful. In my brief conversation with Mr Ellis, Mr Werner and Mr Glaicar at the Victoria Rally - they commented that all of "this" has been bad for hunting especially because it looks like hunters fighting hunters. My response was that I disagreed. I told them that I think it's great that hunters have gotten off their asses and gotten involved; they've written letters to their MLA's, they've engaged the four major political parties in this province and as a result, all of government is talking about hunting right now. In the end, I believe my comments had an effect and they agreed somewhat with me. I told the same thing to Jill Kropp in my Global TV interview on Tuesday. I mentioned how hunting has become popular again and how the largest demographic of new hunters in women and youth.

I really think we can be successful if we channel our enthusiasm and remain strategic in our battle. The potential for a rally outside the GOABC convention to backfire is very high - and not something I want to be part of. Of course, I'm only speaking for myself here. It's up to others to decide what they want to do.



Agree with Coach.


Its not the GOABC that is going to rescind on this policy- its the Liberals.


Our fight is with them now.


There are more things planned in the future to let our voices be heard, and presence seen.


For now, keep writing and calling.


If anyone wants to see if we are making a difference, I encourage you to watch Minister Thomson inside the Legislature whenever he is forced to defend his decision.

[Ambush]

Come on guys. Everybody loves a good hockey fight and that's what gets all the attention and press!

Besides, I know it's been a less-than-secret dream of The Dawg to mud wrestle with Christie.

[Salty]

Well if coach, kayjayess and the Dawg think its best to leave this alone as far as groups of us showing up that's good enough for me. These guys know a thing or two about the big picture they've been to the show. lol. I still hope somehow there is some media that comes out of this showing some facts and not just GOABC/BC Liberal spin, how its best to get that done I'm not sure.

[coach]

Good question about media, Salty. I keep thinking back on the Global coverage from Monday. Not one anti showed up to protest against us - yet Global allotted a bunch of coverage to a Raincoast representative. :mad: Maybe we need to contact the media ahead of time and make sure people are interviewed to represent our side. Doesn't necessarily have to happen at the Grand..

[Wentrot]

I know of a number of people planning on protesting at the event. The more the better as usual.

[The Dawg]

Good question about media, Salty. I keep thinking back on the Global coverage from Monday. Not one anti showed up to protest against us - yet Global allotted a bunch of coverage to a Raincoast representative. :mad: Maybe we need to contact the media ahead of time and make sure people are interviewed to represent our side. Doesn't necessarily have to happen at the Grand..


Its been a lonnnnnnnnnng painful process to get the media going on this.

But I'm working on it. Still.


Look back to 6 weeks ago on the media coverage on this, and compare it to now.

[Ambush]

Much of this battle will be fought in the public realm through media attention. Politicians do not like the wrong kind of attention!

Any time you can gain attention for your cause, you strike a blow against the opposition. The GOABC does not want the spotlight on them anymore either.

While I have the utmost respect for the leaders that have emerged, I have to disagree with letting the opportunity slide.

Battles are fought on many fronts and that ranges from diplomatic to the muddy trenches. Few battles are won without any blood spilled.

[FirePower]

May I suggest that if we do rally at the GOABC convention we direct all our signs and comments at Thomson and Clark and their allocation policy rather than GOABC that would satisfy both camps in this discussion.

[coach]

The antis are loving the idea of hunters fighting hunters. Meanwhile residents of BC support us standing up and battling the Liberals over their latest policy. It's those people that will sway opinion and they are the ones we need on our side. Again - everything we do needs to be well thought out and strategic.

[Wentrot]

May I suggest that if we do rally at the GOABC convention we direct all our signs and comments at Thomson and Clark and their allocation policy rather than GOABC that would satisfy both camps in this discussion.


People can and should fight this thing in whatever way they see fit. Playing follow the leader doesnt always work. This is an excellent opportunity to get in the spot light, even for a wee bit.

[Salty]

Good question about media, Salty. I keep thinking back on the Global coverage from Monday. Not one anti showed up to protest against us - yet Global allotted a bunch of coverage to a Raincoast representative. :mad: Maybe we need to contact the media ahead of time and make sure people are interviewed to represent our side. Doesn't necessarily have to happen at the Grand..

Probably. Did you or any of the boys get any business cards or anything from the media? Cold calling? I just don't know man this kind of thing is far from anything I know much about. I mean anyone can do up a press release and send it but to who and how to get it to the top of their desk? dunno

[Ambush]

The antis are loving the idea of hunters fighting hunters.

I don't believe the anti's will be given any more ammunition from this type of tactic. They roll their own "bull"its anyway.

And to be accurate we are not fighting hunters, we are fighting the GOABC. To me, they are a legitimate and necessary target.

[coach]

Probably. Did you or any of the boys get any business cards or anything from the media? Cold calling? I just don't know man this kind of thing is far from anything I know much about. I mean anyone can do up a press release and send it but to who and how to get it to the top of their desk? dunno

I have a pretty good relationship with a few local media here in Kelowna and I'm sure Dawg is well connected province wide..

[Salty]

Great. I do know that press releases are the go to for reporters these days. Their business is no different than many lately they don't have the staff and resources they used to research and write for every issue. I know those including my wife that do press releases for totally different types of issues often and have good success getting press as its easy and quick for the reporter to do a few quick checks and then basically cut and paste the PR.

[coach]

I don't believe the anti's will be given any more ammunition from this type of tactic. They roll their own "bull"its anyway.

And to be accurate we are not fighting hunters, we are fighting the GOABC. To me, they are a legitimate and necessary target.

As mentioned, we need to be strategic and remain proactive and not reactive. What's the strategy in protesting their convention - especially when we are giving them plenty of lead time to devise a strategy to combat that protest? As of Monday, we killed their argument that we are simply a "few radicals" who want to see the end of the guide outfitting industry. I think British Columbians support us when we say we believe in a viable GO business - but not at the expense of residents. Thomson's lie about it only being "60 animals" has been gobbled up by the media. I think we'd be farther ahead protesting outside his office next.

[Wild one]

As mentioned, we need to be strategic and remain proactive and not reactive. What's the strategy in protesting their convention - especially when we are giving them plenty of lead time to devise a strategy to combat that protest? As of Monday, we killed their argument that we are simply a "few radicals" who want to see the end of the guide outfitting industry. I think British Columbians support us when we say we believe in a viable GO business - but not at the expense of residents. Thomson's lie about it only being "60 animals" has been gobbled up by the media. I think we'd be farther ahead protesting outside his office next.

Agree bringing this to Thomson's office would be better than the GOABC

Pressure on those that can change this is more important than the ones who lobbied for it

[Wentrot]

Well, its a good thing people can think for themselves I guess. Pressure needs to be placed everywhere possible, why some of you don`t agree with that really makes me question things. Quit trying to be so nice and polite. Obviously we don`t want to look like a bunch of goons but we also should not be trying to tip toe around while being scared to really ruffle some feathers. The current route will not succeed. Just my opinion of course.

[The Dawg]

Well, its a good thing people can think for themselves I guess. Pressure needs to be placed everywhere possible, why some of you don`t agree with that really makes me question things. Quit trying to be so nice and polite. Obviously we don`t want to look like a bunch of goons but we also should not be trying to tip toe around while being scared to really ruffle some feathers. The current route will not succeed. Just my opinion of course.



Whats the strategy behind protesting their gathering?

[Ambush]

Coach, to get your message out, you need exposure.

I firmly believe that media can be and is manipulated to the savvy groups benefit. That is why Thompson et al keep tossing out 60 or 86 or 72 animals all the time. It's not the actual number that is important it's only important that it is a minuscule number!

We have to broadcast in as many situations as possible the true, much larger number. Control the camera, control the game. It's all about perception.

Don't let reporters ask you questions. Give them answers instead. They don't know the issue and therefore cannot ask relevant questions in order to present a factual report.

And to repeat, the GOABC is the catalyst and the antagonist behind all of this. They brought the fight directly to us with their full page attacks on our credibility after their subversive attacks [through close door lobbying] were revealed. I see nothing wrong with taking the fight back to their doorstep.

I can also appreciate that this has taken a heavy toll on your time, finances and energy, and no amount of thanks can even the score. We are all deeply indebted to every one that has stepped up and taken a front line position. So don't take my position as a slight on your work or opinion.

I've mellowed into a fairly level headed guy over the years. I will freely admit that I was one of those dick heads that didn't think my Saturday night was complete if I didn't get into a least one good scrap. But that was years ago and I'm now more inclined to count the cost before charging ahead. I am fully convinced that the executive of the GOABC has the most to lose in this fight, in the way of money. And money is one of the greatest motivators.

To me this is a "cut the head off the snake" battle. And where better to find the snake than in his own pit.

[Stretch]

I was originally supportive of a rally at the GOABC convention in Kelowna. I have changed my mind. Risking a confrontation with GOABC would only play into their hands. Confrontation would only take away from the substantial progress that we have made to date.
Our battle is with Thomson / Clark and their cohorts in office. We need to continue showing the Public and other supportive political members the lies and misrepresentation of the facts in order to keep the wave of support on our side.
Thomson's flippant remarks of "it is only 60 animals " or the O.I.C # 183 and other prejudicial actions should be the real targets. We have 102,000 residents and their families (voters) that Thomson and Clark continually need to be reminded are watching and questioning their every action.

Just my opinion,
Stretch

[coach]

Thanks, Ambush. I don't look at a difference of opinion as any sort of slight. Pretty proud of what hunters have done so far and I'm hoping people will continue to stand up for ourselves, for wildlife and for hunting opportunities. "Head of the snake" was a phrase I used to convince people to protest Clark's office and I do believe we made a strategic move there. British Columbians definitley noticed her silence on the issue and we made a lot of friends in the non hunting community. Hopefully we don't make any moves that will lose any support.

[bridger]

One thing we need to keep in mind. This is a political decision and political decisions are not based on reason or logic. They are based on power. Right now the Goabc has the power and governments ear how we change that is a question of strategy.

My experience over the years has taught me that always being polite with government will get you a watch and handshake at the end of the day, but not much else. We need to get governments ear now that we have their attention. We need to put Thomson and the Goabc on the defensive. Sooner or later we are going to have to take off the gloves.

[btridge]

A couple Dozen protesters all with the same sign" Thomson, 40% for foreign hunters is wrong", stick to the message and have thick skins, a fight would do no good for resident hunters. This would keep the fight directed at the government and raise awareness with the foreign hunters attending. All questions should be refered to the 40% is wrong.

[Vladimir Poutine]

When is the last time Clark actually missed a GOABC convention??
She's been side-stepping the entire issue even though she's giving the orders.


SSS

Good question. What we do know is that she's always a no show at the Legislature on Mondays. Hence her no show at a window when those guys were doing their great cow calls.

[Wentrot]

Whats the strategy behind protesting their gathering?


Exactly as others have said-media exposure. If people keep a level head (I have not noticed anyone get out of line as of yet) there is no harm that can come from this. We need every opportunity possible. I don`t want to argue, this is simply my opinion, its understandable that not everyone will agree with this protest but I don`t think people should be talked out of it just because some don`t agree-That is all.

[Whonnock Boy]

I will go on record opposed to this. As good as it sounded a month or two ago, now I believe we have more important things to attend to. We have nothing to gain from attacking the GOABC any longer as their reputation is already dirt, imo. Let them dig the hole deeper all on their own. They seem to be doing a wonderful job of it.

[fowl language]

if this protest was to take place I strongly urge you all to have a video camera with you. I also strongly expect the goabc to make a false report to the police about something being done outside the convention which would require police attention to try and get the peaceful protestors to be removed. a camera start to finish would remove all doubt about this......further to mr Thompson,s comment requiring 60 animals, consider this. we can hold him to that when the population rebounds as we have resident priority

[The Hermit]

... I would not be surprised in the least to see Clark and Thomson pass on making an appearance. There has been a lot of negative public exposure from the rally as to the favoured relationship that the Liberal's have with the GOABC (2000 meetings between them). If they want to avoid further public criticism, they will not want to be seen at the convention and that lack of support would be a win for us. Sponsors are pulling out already, now if the politicians start to distance themselves, we are slowly but surely pulling the support we need away from the GOABC. I think it is a good idea and I will be there if there is a rally.

Agreed with the above. In addition it would be great if a couple residents, and maybe Dan Brooks could purchase a conference package and attend sessions, asking pointed questions at every opportunity, especially if the media is present! GOABC members and staff are also members of the BCWF and attend all the members only meetings to stay on top of the goings on... they even vote!

[Ambush]

We have nothing to gain from attacking the GOABC any longer as their reputation is already dirt, imo.

Their reputation is dirt among informed hunters. The rest of the population of BC doesn't even know they exist or what they are doing. That's pretty evident from the reporting that is being done by mainstream media. It gets very little play because even they do not know the issues nor do they have a grasp on how many people are directly affected.

A seal in a fishnet gets twenty times the air time.

[boxhitch]

.... GOABC members and staff are also members of the BCWF and attend all the members only meetings to stay on top of the goings on... they even vote!All within the rules , and they are attending and voting a BC residents, which has a certain disconnect.
That same disconnect is in the root of this battle . The fight isn't hunter vs hunter , I am surprised goabc reps would say such a thing . Nobody is confronting Ellis or Werner as fellow hunters in BC , they are targeted as reps of big business impacting BC hunters
This is BC residents against big business
Play that song and RH's will get lots of sympathetic support.
IMO )

[Wild one]

All within the rules , and they are attending and voting a BC residents, which has a certain disconnect.
That same disconnect is in the root of this battle . The fight isn't hunter vs hunter , I am surprised goabc reps would say such a thing . Nobody is confronting Ellis or Werner as fellow hunters in BC , they are targeted as reps of big business impacting BC hunters
This is BC residents against big business
Play that song and RH's will get lots of sympathetic support.
IMO )

So true could not agree more

[180grainer]

The fight's with the Government. Let them have their convention. It might be an idea to let the media know of the convention and that MLA's may attend and how that relates to our concerns over the allocation issue and conflicts of interest.

[tuner]

I have a hard time seeing any MLA attending the convention, not out of any moral objection but rather for reasons of self preservation.The optics of attending the convention by anyone associated with the government or the liberal party will only serve to confirm RH's suspicions of collusion between the two. There will be discreet support,but no asses in seats. I could be wrong though,after all the political donations the GOABC made,I'm pretty sure they feel the current government owes them one.

[bigdogeh]

I have a hard time seeing any MLA attending the convention, not out of any moral objection but rather for reasons of self preservation.The optics of attending the convention by anyone associated with the government or the liberal party will only serve to confirm RH's suspicions of collusion between the two. There will be discreet support,but no asses in seats. I could be wrong though,after all the political donations the GOABC made,I'm pretty sure they feel the current government owes them one.

I think they'll be there. Christie and Thompson just hate to miss a photo op. especially one with the GOABC and all the goodies they can take home. they're probably getting a big cardboard check of taxpayers money made up as we speak to deliver to the GOABC directors at the convention.
have a look at the GOABC website's photo layout of all their conventions. yeah, no conflict of interest there.

[Ambush]

Do you think they would donate a little wild game for us to have a BBQ out front while they're inside working on making more wildlife? :roll:


Or taking more wildlife? :evil:

[kawdy]

I agree with Boxhitch. All governments and media reps apply this logic. Pick a sound bite, number or whatever, and repeat it over and over and over, you get my drift. The uneducated masses will eventually start believeing it and start parroting it themselves and passing it on to others at the water cooler.

[Ohwildwon]

As mentioned, we need to be strategic and remain proactive and not reactive. What's the strategy in protesting their convention - especially when we are giving them plenty of lead time to devise a strategy to combat that protest? As of Monday, we killed their argument that we are simply a "few radicals" who want to see the end of the guide outfitting industry. I think British Columbians support us when we say we believe in a viable GO business - but not at the expense of residents. Thomson's lie about it only being "60 animals" has been gobbled up by the media. I think we'd be farther ahead protesting outside his office next.

We need to come up with our own number or numbers for the press. Is there enough info available to say its a minimum / maximum? For example, "400 to 600 hundred animals in an average year" Repeat, the numbers are an example..
This might also help in getting more info from the Gov to support their or our claim, no?

Ideas and thoughts please...

[Seeker]

I went onto both Thomson and Letnick's(my MLA) facebook pages and asked them if they received their GOABC convention invite. Then told them to enjoy our elk meat. Hopefully they will realize we are watching the convention and distance themselves from the GOABC. If we can drive a wedge between the two groups, it can only benefit resident hunters.

[Airedale]

It would seem to make good sense to have a fact filled digital Press release prepared and then sent out to the Press and TV Stations
on the occasion of the GOABC Convention.
The Press tend to make more use of the cut and paste stuff that they receive.
Provide names and contact info for them that they can use to get more info.... and possibly interviews.
Most Press outfits maintain a contact list for individuals for various issues whenever required.
Makes their job easy....and gets our points out there.

[BiG Boar]

I still don't know what we're actually fighting for....Someone needs to decide what it is we want and get that number out there. Then we have something to fight towards.


What does BCWF think is fair?


The next report the GOABC is coming out with is "their version" of other province and states guide allocations vs ours in BC. It will be very carefully worded I assure you to make BC look normal.

[Apolonius]

I think if people want to protest the convention they should be encouraged.An exposure like this ,makes the news.News people love stuff like that.If there is some disruption too bad.Goabc and the Liberals disrupted your life.How many of us lost sleep over this allocation?This is not hunters you are fighting.This are NOT nice people.They went behind your back so many times and screwed us up.The GOs did this for years in hiding.....now they do it in public.At least before we could hide our shame.We HAD some success early on when we focussed on things.Percentages not numbers.They started going to numbers and with a few well placed people in the media .....now we are talking numbers too!!!!You want to win back what is rightfully yours ?????FIGHT!!!!Fight them everywhere.Facebook,letters to the editor,media.And the Goabc convention is the biggest impact that can be made.NOT only Global news.There will be American attendees.Give them some memories to take home.Should have people inside out!!!Take a page out of the ANTI'S.Do you believe they would miss a chance like that????If we don't start being vocal....big time vocal.....they dug our grave.....now they get ready to fill it with dirt.If you like to play nice ,just lay there ....dont make their effort harder.

[Wild one]

I still don't know what we're actually fighting for....Someone needs to decide what it is we want and get that number out there. Then we have something to fight towards.


What does BCWF think is fair?


The next report the GOABC is coming out with is "their version" of other province and states guide allocations vs ours in BC. It will be very carefully worded I assure you to make BC look normal.


This is a good reason right here for resident hunter to bring true numbers to light instead of the 60 animal BS^^

[Wentrot]

I think if people want to protest the convention they should be encouraged.An exposure like this ,makes the news.News people love stuff like that.If there is some disruption too bad.Goabc and the Liberals disrupted your life.How many of us lost sleep over this allocation?This is not hunters you are fighting.This are NOT nice people.They went behind your back so many times and screwed us up.The GOs did this for years in hiding.....now they do it in public.At least before we could hide our shame.We HAD some success early on when we focussed on things.Percentages not numbers.They started going to numbers and with a few well placed people in the media .....now we are talking numbers too!!!!You want to win back what is rightfully yours ?????FIGHT!!!!Fight them everywhere.Facebook,letters to the editor,media.And the Goabc convention is the biggest impact that can be made.NOT only Global news.There will be American attendees.Give them some memories to take home.Should have people inside out!!!Take a page out of the ANTI'S.Do you believe they would miss a chance like that????If we don't start being vocal....big time vocal.....they dug our grave.....now they get ready to fill it with dirt.If you like to play nice ,just lay there ....dont make their effort harder.

Excellent-someone gets it!

[bearvalley]

I think if people want to protest the convention they should be encouraged.An exposure like this ,makes the news.News people love stuff like that.If there is some disruption too bad.Goabc and the Liberals disrupted your life.How many of us lost sleep over this allocation?This is not hunters you are fighting.This are NOT nice people.They went behind your back so many times and screwed us up.The GOs did this for years in hiding.....now they do it in public.At least before we could hide our shame.We HAD some success early on when we focussed on things.Percentages not numbers.They started going to numbers and with a few well placed people in the media .....now we are talking numbers too!!!!You want to win back what is rightfully yours ?????FIGHT!!!!Fight them everywhere.Facebook,letters to the editor,media.And the Goabc convention is the biggest impact that can be made.NOT only Global news.There will be American attendees.Give them some memories to take home.Should have people inside out!!!Take a page out of the ANTI'S.Do you believe they would miss a chance like that????If we don't start being vocal....big time vocal.....they dug our grave.....now they get ready to fill it with dirt.If you like to play nice ,just lay there ....dont make their effort harder.

You should go. It will be just like one of the old hippy riots. Did you go to those?

[GoatGuy]

Best thing to do is ignore GOABC.

By now most resident hunters know what GOABC is all about and that won't change. Generally speaking the media isnt even talking to them so they are having to buy full page adds across the province.

this is goabc approach: http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/bc-news/local-guide-outfitter-concerned-for-his-safety-1.1755170



Talk to other resident hunters, the public and politicans. More letters and letters to the editor. Meet with your politicians. That is what is needed. Goabc is a distraction.

[Wentrot]

Best thing to do is ignore GOABC.

By now most resident hunters know what GOABC is all about and that won't change. Generally speaking the media isnt even talking to them so they are having to buy full page adds across the province.

this is goabc approach: http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/bc-news/local-guide-outfitter-concerned-for-his-safety-1.1755170



Talk to other resident hunters, the public and politicans. More letters and letters to the editor. Meet with your politicians. That is what is needed. Goabc is a distraction.

FYI I was told the media will be at this convention.

[GoatGuy]

FYI I was told the media will be at this convention.

Are the paying for a reporter now? Lol.

This thread has already taken up too much time.

[Wagonmaster]

I don't want to criticize the BCWF as I don't know what the executive is doing behind the scenes on our behalf at this point in time. The BCWF originally stated that resident hunters could lose up to 5000 hunts. Have they provided the government and Mr. Thomson with examples and numbers to refute the number 60? If so, has Mr. Thomson just chosen to ignore their projections? Does he disagree with them? Why? The latest BCWF update that I received just days ago did not provide any information regarding recent BCWF activity. Maybe there is nothing more they can do. As a lifetime member (since the 70's), I would just like be informed.

[GoatGuy]

Hahaha, yes the minister is well aware of the numbers-- it's called politics.

In the next couple months government is planning on legislating 20-40% of moose, bull roosevelt elk, sheep, goats and bears.

Big picture stuff.

[bridger]

Having a demo at their convention could easily backfire. The Goabc now has to convince the general public that they are the good guys. you can bet that they will have some friendly media types on hand to make us look bad in the press. A demo at their convention would play right into their hands.

I share are everyone's frustration on this whole issue, but remember it took the Goabc several years s to get governments ear. It will take awhile to turn it around and to do that we need to keep focused and present a united front. I know the bcwf is working on numbers, but it is a chore digging them out as government just isn't handing them over.

[Wentrot]

Having a demo at their convention could easily backfire. The Goabc now has to convince the general public that they are the good guys. you can bet that they will have some friendly media types on hand to make us look bad in the press. A demo at their convention would play right into their hands.

I share are everyone's frustration on this whole issue, but remember it took the Goabc several years s to get governments ear. It will take awhile to turn it around and to do that we need to keep focused and present a united front. I know the bcwf is working on numbers, but it is a chore digging them out as government just isn't handing them over.

How can it backfire? We have shown several times that we are a respectful bunch. The only way things would get ugly is if someone from GOABC makes it that way-Video start to finish can cover our asses nicely like someone else already stated.

Regardless, it seems there are a select bunch trying to squash this for one reason or another so I will back out of this thread now and just see anyone else willing to stand on the day :)

[Apolonius]

I have seeing the light.BCWF should send some guys there with welcoming signs "BC HUNTERS WELCOME FOREIGN HUNTERS" ,"GOABC AND LIBERALS GET MORE MONEY FOR US BY SELLING OUR WILDLIFE" "GOABC=THE FUTURE IN BC" and lastly..."SCOTT ELLIS FOR PRIME MINISTER".And make sure our representatives are dressed to impress the visiting dignitaries.Only Duck Dynasty attire.And some young hunterrets to through rose petals ,along the entry.Hail Ceasar.