Taking a dog on a backpack sheep hunt

[geoskier]

Just wondering if anyone has any experience taking a dog on a backpack sheep (stone) hunt?

I got a great Chesapeake (Chilko) off Dave Mcrae at Trinity Kennels recently. He is currently 4 months old and will be 10 months for the opener. First off, does anyone think this is a suitable age or should I wait until 2016.

Second, does anyone have any comments on what your first hunt with a dog was like? I am concerned that Chilko might end up blowing a stalk/cover. Does anyone have any tips for how to train for these situations.

I would like to put a very light pack on him this year with some of his food (likely freeze dried raw). Does anyone think this is too early to pack weight?

He will be with me for 6 weeks in sheep country doing mineral exploration work leading up to Aug 1st so I will have plenty of opportunities to train him in a realistic setting.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Jagermeister]

Find a place where the deer are congregating and start taking him on hikes there. You can train him to lay down with you when your glassing game. Make the scenario much like it would be if you were actually hunting sheep.
Get him a back pack so he can at least carry his own groceries.

[Everett]

We have a little experience mostly hunting Caribou and Goats. Basically all come down to training and control. At 10 months old he should be able to pack his own food.
Here is a couple pics of dogs packing and hunting in the mountains to get you psyched up.
Bushmill waiting for me to come back from glassing some sheep
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/DSCF1177.JPG

Jamie and Bushy waiting to be loaded up
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/goat_hunt_2011_001_resize.jpg

Bushmill hanging with the wifes Goat
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/bushy_and_Gwen.jpg

Bushmill and Jamie watching me stock a Caribou
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/North_trip_2011_039.jpg

[Everett]

Loaded down with Moose meat to head back to the lake.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/North_trip_2011_102.jpg

Bushmill guarding his trophy
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/North_trip_2011_064.jpg

[spear]

Never get tired of seeing these Heelers.

I don't have experience. With packing my dog, however I do think 10 months is pretty young to start adding weight to a pup. I would give him until 2016 just so his knees and hips can develop, just.my $.02

[geoskier]

Never get tired of seeing these Heelers.

I don't have experience. With packing my dog, however I do think 10 months is pretty young to start adding weight to a pup. I would give him until 2016 just so his knees and hips can develop, just.my $.02

I was thinking 10% of his weight max. He is currently 37lbs at just shy of 4 months... But ya... I'd rather err on the side of caution and take it easy on him.

[604redneck]

Never get tired of seeing these Heelers.

I don't have experience. With packing my dog, however I do think 10 months is pretty young to start adding weight to a pup. I would give him until 2016 just so his knees and hips can develop, just.my $.02

I gotta agree on this one

[geoskier]

Awesome pics Everett. Thanks!

[325]

My dog has been on a few trips with me. Never a problem, and a great companion.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc215/goatcamp/P1010400.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/goatcamp/media/P1010400.jpg.html)
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc215/goatcamp/unnamed_zps02e2465c.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/goatcamp/media/unnamed_zps02e2465c.jpg.html)
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc215/goatcamp/P1010531_zps3c4344c1.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/goatcamp/media/P1010531_zps3c4344c1.jpg.html)

[Everett]

I was thinking 10% of his weight max. He is currently 37lbs at just shy of 4 months... But ya... I'd rather err on the side of caution and take it easy on him.

That's going to be a big doggy but he should be able to handle 10lbs at 10 months. The saddle bags also tend to settle them down so they don't get as wound up as they know there on the job. Bushmill only weighed 35lb and he could haul 20lb with no problem over short time periods.
To keep his weight down dehydrate a bunch of meat for him to eat and mix it with some cooked rice you prepare on site. You could also shoot some Ptarmigan for him to eat as well.

Love the Poodle and the sheap pic he looks like he wants to start chowing down

[Iron Glove]

I'd chat with a decent Vet and Breeder to get their thoughts on weight carrying at that age.
No point in buggering up something at that early age.
Like the idea of the dehydrated raw food - our dogs are 100% raw and we use the dehydrated stuff as back up or if camping / away from refrigeration.
It's pretty light as you know so who knows, a few days worth of that might be easily on the dog to pack.

[Big Lew]

I would take him on hikes in moderate territory first so that he learns about the drop-offs
and how to handle steep terrain before going into the extreme situations, especially if he is
going to be wearing a loaded and bulky pack.
I have taken several dogs along with me into the rugged mountains with few problems, but
have had others bring along inexperienced dogs which got into trouble. It can result in serious
injury or death, and usually is quite difficult to retrieve them if they've slid or fallen off an edge.
My current lad, at 18 months and 80 lbs, had no problems in handling a bulky but fairly light pack
when on a 4 hour hike.

[albravo2]

at 10 months I would be concerned about obedience. some puppies are well trained but i can't say any of mine have been that obedient at that age.

i'd ask a vet about the knees/hips question. i think that is a very valid concern.

[BRvalley]

at 10 month's I would only expect him to pack his own food...not over burden him with loads of water/gear, I'd rather be cautious on his joints

I know I wouldn't trust my dog to not blow a stalk, and that's my "fault" for how I've trained him otherwise, if I was hunting with a partner I'd have no problem bringing him...I do hope to hunt solo with my dog someday, but I know I need to work with him before I get to that point

it sounds like you will have ample time to train him, so make that judgement call when the day arrives

[swampthing]

The poodle certainly looks out of place but a good dog is a good dog! I spend a lot of time solo and have wanted to take my lab but he just wont hold steady enough when I need him to.

[NORTHERN HUNTER]

I took my yellow lab on a sheep hunt two seasons ago... She was a bit wound up (she was only 2) but was well trained at the time and packed all over her own dog food for the 8 days we went.

What I found was that when it came time to creep up to a ridge top or when I did stalk a ram she was MORE than happy to lay down and stay put, mostly out of pure exhaustion than obedience im sure. There were 2 occasions where we had her lay down with the backpacks while me and a buddy checked some things out, both times were gone over 3 hours in length and both times she hadn't moved an inch from where we left her.

I would post post some pics but they are on my other device.

Chris

[bruin]

I took my 2 year old choc lab guiding this year. He made it through 2 sheep hunts packing 10% most of the time and occasionally 20-30 lbs off kills. It was suggested to me to wait till 2 years for packing weight for proper joint and bone formation. He lost weight quite rapidly (high energy dog) so pack LOTS of food.
It was an absolute BLAST having a dog in the mountains! Enjoy!

[BromBones]

I started training my dog for mountain hunts 5 years ago and he's been hunting with me ever since. I never go without him.

I'll pm you when I have some time with a few things I've learned over the years.

[325]

The poodle certainly looks out of place but a good dog is a good dog! I spend a lot of time solo and have wanted to take my lab but he just wont hold steady enough when I need him to.

Yeah, I bet I'm the only sheep hunter in BC whose trail dog is a poodle! She has been awesome on my hunting trips, though. She is extremely obedient, and doesn't chase game (other than bears). In fact, two years ago, she sat quietly beside me as a bull elk was screaming and crashing around about 25 yards away. We've also sat together on a mountain side with sheep no more than 30 yards away, and didn't make a peep, or move, although her heart was pounding (my hand was on her chest). EXTREMELY good impulse control.

[Sofa King]

The poodle certainly looks out of place but a good dog is a good dog! I spend a lot of time solo and have wanted to take my lab but he just wont hold steady enough when I need him to.

standard poodle, one of the smartest dogs out there.

[teelt]

i'm going to be looking at taking my springer this year out with me on some sheep and caribou hunts. He's been getting better at staying behind me while on trail and can't wait for it. Its a lot of fun having them as hunting partners as no matter what there always happy to see you.
I had a dog growing up and she came everywhere with us from goats, deer, elk, sheep. All about getting them out there and training them on what you want them to do when the time comes.

[NorBC]

Awesome thread! I've always been curious about this.

[Dre]

I have been taking my Bouvier Blue on back pack hunts since he was 6 months old. Obedience to stay when told is critical, training should start as young as possible. I have left Blue in camp all day many times and he stays. Sometimes the terrain is too rough and rocky to take him up. At 10 months, I would put a pack on him, but almost no weight, maybe a pound on each side just so he can feel its there. You don't want skeletal issues to develop. You want a guard dog at camp, but not strong prey instincts where he will take off and get into trouble. All in all, a good backpacking dog is the best companion and hunting partner. Many of my hunts are solo with Blue and I have caught myself talking to him like he understands everything, I think he does, but plays dumb, haha. I also owe him for alerting me of a camp intruding black bear and also a tangle with a wounded black bear that would have perforated my behind if it was not for him. The practical time in the bush will be invaluable. Cheers

[kinderdoggin]

You should ask your dog's breeder about his. As a Lab breeder, I wouldn't want any of my puppy owners having their dog pack weight at 10 months. We are anal about keeping our dogs lean and fit because it is a known fact that carrying extra weight is very hard on developing joints. The terrain you will be hunting at will be sufficiently challenging for a 'teenage' dog who is still growing. Long term health and soundness over short-term glory, IMO.

[Dre]

As far as training for a stalk, the approach I use is this. When I am about to make a stalk, I tell him to lay down and stay, them I creep 20-30yds, check things out and ask him to come. Then stay and come and so on. Once he sees that I am stalking, he knows what's up and follows suit. You want him behind you, if he is ahead even a little bit he can't read your body language and signals and you will lose control very easily. You are making the stalk, not him, he should focus on you. Don't worry about noise, dogs are far quieter than us.

[Big Lew]

My first lab was with me everywhere when I was in my early twenties and always up
in the mountains or in the back country. He literally saved my life a couple of times
mainly because he was highly trained, understood me through daily interaction, and
absolutely trusted me. He was intact and looked like a tall pit bull he was so muscled
from constantly climbing and running. He would fiercely defend me or my wife from
both bears and strangers, yet once introduced he loved people, especially kids.
Having a dog like him along is better than having another person as far as I'm concerned.

[colemanwsm]

Good queastions and good answers ! I personaly have packed my cheasapeaks sheep/elk hunting , there amazing companion and have never had any issues however , i would be hesitant packing any weight under 1 year old as there cartledge is still soft . i use wilderness wander dog pack on a 90 Lbs cheasapeak for a 14 day backpack trip he gets all his food and some water , as trip progresses his pack stays the same . average 30 lbs , ive packed as much as 45 for an 8 hr hike out . the dog loves it and loves being there. to get them started it was afternoons bugleing bull elk and keeping him calm. when your training him to hike dont let him get off your heels at all times and you will never get the problem of playing like a puppy. this is my 6 th yr packing dogs hes been on 2 stone kills 3 bull elk and a number of moose and bears only advice is get him strong and joints hard before hand or you will have a dog that wont move after age of 5 . cheers

[Rock Doctor]

I've seen a few dogs with Bloody Feet from walking on the sharp rocks in the Mtns, My own dog included. Might want to think about Booties for your buddy, and get him used to them before you go. Lots of places are not too bad on their feet, but others are really bad.

RD

[325]

I've seen a few dogs with Bloody Feet from walking on the sharp rocks in the Mtns, My own dog included. Might want to think about Booties for your buddy, and get him used to them before you go. Lots of places are not too bad on their feet, but others are really bad.

RD

I think its crucial to train your dog in the mountains before hand. A couch potato dog on a sheep hunt is a disaster waiting to happen.

[scoutlt1]

Your Chessie is a great choice for a companion! :) Mine's a Lab/Chessie cross. Best dog ever (crazy f***er but yea.... :)).
As I'm sure you know by now they are very independent and strong.
Don't overload your pooch at first, but I bet you will surprised at how durable these clowns are! :)

Get his feet toughened up, make him understand that everything that moves isn't something he needs to kill :), and I'd maybe (only my opinion) wait one more season, and work with him for a while. You've got a great breed there, and I wouldn't chance any health issues just to bring him along too soon.

Only my $.02 :)

[labguy]

You should ask your dog's breeder about his. As a Lab breeder, I wouldn't want any of my puppy owners having their dog pack weight at 10 months. We are anal about keeping our dogs lean and fit because it is a known fact that carrying extra weight is very hard on developing joints. The terrain you will be hunting at will be sufficiently challenging for a 'teenage' dog who is still growing. Long term health and soundness over short-term glory, IMO.


Never get tired of seeing these Heelers.

I don't have experience. With packing my dog, however I do think 10 months is pretty young to start adding weight to a pup. I would give him until 2016 just so his knees and hips can develop, just.my $.02

geoskier......these two posts deserve closer attention. Don't make a 10 month old dog pack ANYTHING until he is fully grown. (closer to two years)

[one-shot-wonder]

Great companions those Chessies. My 75lb partner is 5 years old. He is on his 5th hunting season. Get them out in the bush as early and as often as possible. Treat every interaction with wildlife like it's hunting season. Find a good obedience course between now and the fall, to fine tune commands and use hand commands as much as possible as they will come in handy.

You have a great blood line from Dave, he produces great dogs!

[BTF]

Although I don't use my current dog for packing, I have with the two previous ones. I waited till they were 2 and 3 years of age. they need to be strong and experienced in the terrain before working hard, much like us. first get good then get better. As far as training there has been some great advice on here, get them use to all animals from birds to bears and teach them the manners you want to expect. I have arrowed 4 deer with my current dog over his years, and every time I'm more amazed at his capabilities. He scents bucks long before we see them and never losses his cool, it's a job to him. Once they know their proper place in the 'pack' they except the position happily.

Happy hunting

[Duidery]

I also have a Chessie from Dave. Its great bush dog that has been on two successful elk hunts. Thinking its about time I try him on a backpack hunt. He's a whiney little bugger but doesn't chase game and knows the difference between playtime and hunting. He'd have no problem carrying all his own food and supplies.

As for your dog, as great as it would be to have him on this years trip, I would wait until he is more developed before taking him on such a rugged trip.

http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u633/Duidery/DSC03678_zpsazpy5pjg.jpg (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/Duidery/media/DSC03678_zpsazpy5pjg.jpg.html)


Great companions those Chessies. My 75lb partner is 5 years old. He is on his 5th hunting season. Get them out in the bush as early and as often as possible. Treat every interaction with wildlife like it's hunting season. Find a good obedience course between now and the fall, to fine tune commands and use hand commands as much as possible as they will come in handy.

You have a great blood line from Dave, he produces great dogs!

[GoatGuy]

Makes for a great companion and they can pack a bit.

Our old dog came everywhere we went when guiding and on our hunts other then sitting for wt. Think all the experiences of being stuffed in floatplanes, riding on snowmobiles, quads and the odd horse is good for them. She figured the hunting part out pretty quickly. Belly crawls on the stalk beside you, loves chasing bears, and has been a lifesaver on a couple occasions. We've both saved eachother's hides over the years.

Wouldn't trade that dog for anything. Recovered lots of game when blood dried up. Last year she sniffed out one of the wife's deer that we would have never found otherwise.

Would go out now and train them not to bark/whine and to be patient around game and you're good to go.

Dog started going hunting at 5 months, never packed her until a year IIRC. She's now 13, and has slowed down but still loves to hunt.

Lots of memories.

[geoskier]

Thanks for all the great responses guys. I am definitely in agreement with taking it slow. I will be buying a pack for Chilko this summer so he can wear it Empty while following me around at work. I don't think I will take him on my August sheep hunt since it will be in much gnarlier terrain than my fall hunts. I will probably bring him on a more mellow fall trip with friends (not the same fitness/mountain climbing capability). I also plan on getting him booties since I will be on scree. With work I'm fairly stationary during the day (moving around mostly via helicopter) so he wont have to walk too far but I just want to get him used to the alpine and trained not to go ape shit on every ptarmagin and marmot he sees.

I will definitely hold off on him packing weight until his second summer >18 months old.

He is doing very well so far with daily walks along gravel bars on the Mamquam in Squamish and he did make it up to the Squamish Chief with me on the weekend, although I did have to carry him (45lbs) for all of the steep sections and most of the way down to save his joints. He's training me!

[scoutlt1]

Really good responses on here, and I think you are making the right decision for your buddy!

Chessies are amazing dogs. I think mine might be a re-incarnated human (albeit a stubborn and pain in the butt human....but still...). :)

Just for discussion's sakes, I have never felt more comfortable sleeping in bear country than when I've had my pooch with me.....



Great pic Duidery btw...

[colemanwsm]

If you ever have issues with your dogs feet in rocks / shale , I pack a small tub of Nitro ointment. its the same stuff people use for saddle sores on horses. once at the end of the day will leave your dogs paws fresh and help with cuts and infection and speeds there heal time .

[Big Lew]

As I said earlier, it's very important to introduce them to the rugged terrain
carefully before actually heading out into the dangerous stuff.
One of my brothers brought his young Chesapeake along despite our warning
as we went into some steep country with cliffs, slides, and fast streams. He
slipped off an edge, landed on a gravel slide, and panicked, going away from us
as he slid quite a way down before going spread-eagle and freezing in one spot.
It took a long time, working with safety gear, for us to get him back and he was
so traumatized by then he had to be carried over the rough stuff and through the
creeks on the way back. He never was any good for that sort of thing ever since.

[geoskier]

As I said earlier, it's very important to introduce them to the rugged terrain
carefully before actually heading out into the dangerous stuff.
One of my brothers brought his young Chesapeake along despite our warning
as we went into some steep country with cliffs, slides, and fast streams. He
slipped off an edge, landed on a gravel slide, and panicked, going away from us
as he slid quite a way down before going spread-eagle and freezing in one spot.
It took a long time, working with safety gear, for us to get him back and he was
so traumatized by then he had to be carried over the rough stuff and through the
creeks on the way back. He never was any good for that sort of thing ever since.


That will definitely not be a problem. He will be with me doing mineral exploration work for 3 months minimum this summer. So not only will he get used to flying in helicopters but he will also get introduced to all kinds of alpine terrain. On top of that, he will be joining me on lots of training hikes leading up to the hunting season. If he is ready (not to chase big game) then I will bring him elk hunting which will be in much mellower terrain than my sheep trips. Either way, he will be spending a lot of time off leash this summer and fall. Although I won't load him up this year, I will put an empty pack on him so it isn't a hassle getting it on him in 2016.

[Big Lew]

That will definitely not be a problem. He will be with me doing mineral exploration work for 3 months minimum this summer. So not only will he get used to flying in helicopters but he will also get introduced to all kinds of alpine terrain. On top of that, he will be joining me on lots of training hikes leading up to the hunting season. If he is ready (not to chase big game) then I will bring him elk hunting which will be in much mellower terrain than my sheep trips. Either way, he will be spending a lot of time off leash this summer and fall. Although I won't load him up this year, I will put an empty pack on him so it isn't a hassle getting it on him in 2016.

That sounds great, that should certainly prepare him well. I put a light pack on mine for a couple of trips
and then I stuffed the packs with bunched up paper to fill them right out so that he would learn
how to dodge and get around obstacles etc. They learn remarkably fast.

[Rhyla]

We got a pup from Dave McRae at Trinity Kennels a couple years back. What a great working dog and fantastic companion!

I would definitely wait until he is done growing before having him pack any weight (You could put on an empty pack to get him used to the idea of wearing one.) But you really don't want to mess up his joints, especially in a breed that is at risk for joint problems. If you have any doubts, check with your vet.

[Alfonz]

When they stop chasing ground squirells you know you have a little too much weight on them! I had a tough dog ( lab/pitbull) but if you get them up in the really rough rocks you must keep an eye on their paws. I would get leather booties and try them out with your dog so there it is no big deal when you put them on.

[TThomsen]

Great thread, lots of good info and knowledge from those who have done it, what packs has everyone used? Pros/cons?

[primitive]

Obedience is critical! Lots of good advice on here, with not pushing your pup until its full grown being the most important. Having my Kifaru tipi made it nice having a dog. Some days he would hang out in the tipi for the day with a full bowl of water and my sleeping bag (he was older though). He was a awesome to have on my solo sheep hunt, I slept much better having him with me...plus you have someone to talk to!

[BgBlkDg]

I had a PB Black Lab, that I had on my second BCFS Lookout, in the WK mountains for 3 months and he was just a yearling. He became a superb bush dog and used to sleep on snowbanks in some ugly weather, no whining, but, I would let him into my Early Winters GT tent and we slept like logs with his warmth....and my custom Marmot Mountain works GT-down bag!

There is some excellent advice here and I concur, especially with larger breeds, mine are all champion PB Rottweilers, I would NOT put weight in a pack before age two and vets have advised this as well.

Strict obedience training, careful conditioning, booties, dog first-aid kit and gradual intro. to wildlife and a good dog is a better companion in the mountains than most humans, IME. When, you are totally alone, no breaks, for 3 months in remote BC mountains, the companionship alone is beyond price and the bear issue, IF, the dog is trained-capable, is a HUGE benefit.

[fozzy]

Yeah, I bet I'm the only sheep hunter in BC whose trail dog is a poodle! She has been awesome on my hunting trips, though. She is extremely obedient, and doesn't chase game (other than bears). In fact, two years ago, she sat quietly beside me as a bull elk was screaming and crashing around about 25 yards away. We've also sat together on a mountain side with sheep no more than 30 yards away, and didn't make a peep, or move, although her heart was pounding (my hand was on her chest). EXTREMELY good impulse control.

That's awesome seeing another Poodle hunting dog! Our poodle has been hiking with us since he was 4 months old. His first trip was for goats in region 4. His mannerisms are much the same, he just sits and watches other animals he won't chase them or bark.

[hare_assassin]

standard poodle, one of the smartest dogs out there.

And one of the best hunting dogs, who come by it honestly after centuries of doing just that in France:


Standard Poodles have been winning titles against the more widely used native breeds like the Chesapeake Bay Retriever , Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, American Water Spaniel and Labrador Retriever. Thus far 13 Standard Poodles have won Master Hunt titles (12 in the United States, 1 in Canada) and several more have won senior and junior titles on both sides of the border. Currently only the United Kennel Club in the US recognizes the Standard Poodle as a Sporting dog, thus in spite of this subtype of poodle being ineligible for field competitions more and more are appearing in the field as waterfowl dogs and hunters of pheasant, the latter especially in the Midwest.