Alleged First Nations poachers must stand trial, judge rules

[East Van Ray]

Finally!

http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/alleged-first-nations-poachers-must-stand-trial-judge-rules/

A First Nations couple who claimed they were being “persecuted for being Indian” after being charged for poaching offences must stand trial, a judge has ruled.

Jay Coutts and Farah Palmer are facing one count each of trafficking in wildlife. Coutts is charged with an additional count of hunting during prohibited hours.

The pair is fighting the charges on the grounds they violate their rights as natives.

In a previous hearing, Coutts said his rights trump the “white-man laws” of Canada.

He also told KTW outside of court that he was making a living selling meat — something he believes he has the right to do.

Coutts and Palmer are accused of selling deer meat to undercover conservation officers in Cache Creek in 2013.

It’s alleged the officers went to the house in which Coutts and Palmer were living and purchased the meat.

According to Coutts, natives have the right to hunt for “food and sustenance.” He said selling the meat provides him sustenance.

A two-day trial is slated to begin on Sept. 24. Kamloops provincial court Judge Chris Cleaveley said Coutts and Palmer will be able to make charter arguments after the Crown has presented its case.

[44inchStone]

Good luck on this one.
Waste of court time although I feel that their punishments should fit the crime. Every FN laws seems to "TRUMP" the "white-man laws" in the end. It just isn't right. Substenance is one thing. Saying the cash he makes out of selling the meat is un believable. There are legal ways to make a living. Some ruin it for most! At least something is going to be done....we can only hope.

[Paulyman]

Trump the white man laws while bartering in white man dollars.

[Eastbranch]

Will probably lose. Very few established FN claims allow sale of wildlife meat. Commercial use is a growing topic though. Needs to be defined and hopefully not by courts. Southern governments are useless at this stuff.

[Sofa King]

isn't referring to us as "white-man" racist?
oh right, only the white man can actually BE a racist.

amazing how Washington redskins is racism but "white-man laws" is injustice.

[.264winmag]

Will probably lose. Very few established FN claims allow sale of wildlife meat. Commercial use is a growing topic though. Needs to be defined and hopefully not by courts. Southern governments are useless at this stuff.

Wouldn't doubt if they get off, doesn't seem any different than selling sockeye on the side of the hwy...

[tinhorse]

And you wonder why there seems to be more and more poaching... If one race can get away with it, every race should... OR SHOULDN"T and THERE SHOULD BE ONE LAW FOR EVERYONE. They better get charged and it better stick!

[tinhorse]

Wasn't prostitution legal way back? Why don't pimps and Horrors claim their heritage rights and fight that it should be legal in courts? Im sure there are many other examples out there as well.

[skibum]

And you wonder why there seems to be more and more poaching...

Not really according to this thread, they are going to trial.

The racist crap quoted in story are just what some crack head has said on the street. Ignore it

[Bugle M In]

heading in the right direction anyways.....
What if they had said he didn't need to stand in trial????
Let's see what happens first....than we can bitch:grin:

[180grainer]

Finally!

http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/alleged-first-nations-poachers-must-stand-trial-judge-rules/

A First Nations couple who claimed they were being “persecuted for being Indian” after being charged for poaching offences must stand trial, a judge has ruled.

Jay Coutts and Farah Palmer are facing one count each of trafficking in wildlife. Coutts is charged with an additional count of hunting during prohibited hours.

The pair is fighting the charges on the grounds they violate their rights as natives.

In a previous hearing, Coutts said his rights trump the “white-man laws” of Canada.

He also told KTW outside of court that he was making a living selling meat — something he believes he has the right to do.

Coutts and Palmer are accused of selling deer meat to undercover conservation officers in Cache Creek in 2013.

It’s alleged the officers went to the house in which Coutts and Palmer were living and purchased the meat.

According to Coutts, natives have the right to hunt for “food and sustenance.” He said selling the meat provides him sustenance.

A two-day trial is slated to begin on Sept. 24. Kamloops provincial court Judge Chris Cleaveley said Coutts and Palmer will be able to make charter arguments after the Crown has presented its case.

Wonder if they were within their own Band's "traditional" territory when poaching wildlife. If not, the local Band should ask for the right to exercise their cultural and traditional practice of bashing the heads in of the intruders.

[Eastbranch]

Fish are a lot different than ungulates.

[Sofa King]

Fish are a lot different than ungulates.

not to them.
just another thing to slaughter and sell for $$.

and they didn't "poach" anything.
poaching is a term that applies to the rest of us.

[Ride Red]

Fish are a lot different than ungulates.

They shouldn't be though.

[Sofa King]

any lawyer worth a penny will be able to get them off.
easy to claim them selling them for $$ could be viewed as "sustenance".
don't expect and precedent conviction being set.

[Sofa King]

^^any.

also, this is probably just a judge getting himself some publicity and creating a court case to make some lawyers some money.
even he can't think a guilty verdict is happening.

[Citori54]

If nothing else it shines the spotlight on the issue. I can imagine the comments if the judge ruled in favour of the people that were charged.

[Ride Red]

If nothing else it shines the spotlight on the issue. I can imagine the comments if the judge ruled in favour of the people that were charged.

And hopefully it makes the media in a big way.

[358mag]

And hopefully it makes the media in a big way.
Don't count on it , you think the left wing CBC will even report it ?

[303savage]

Us white guys can't play the RACE CARD, I think we're being discriminated against :-)

[Steve W]

Coutts and company will make a big show of this one. He's quite a piece of work.

[Sofa King]

what's sad about their statements, it should be their rights "as a human", or "as a Canadian", not "as Indians".
there should be no rights based on race.

[tangozulu]

Interesting to see who ponies up for 12 cylinder lawyer. Pretty sure same as selling fish so wont be a conviction

[f350ps]

The scary part of this is the fact that if these poachers do win it'll set a precedence, then watch out!! K

[Sofa King]

The scary part of this is the fact that if these poachers do win it'll set a precedence, then watch out!! K

very good point.
it might have been better to keep it out of the limelight.

[Ride Red]

Everyone needs to jump onto that Kamloops site and post your thoughts. We're finally getting our voice out there in so many ways and one day it may actually make a difference. Ride Red.

[russm86]

Well after the last court case here involving an aboriginal, I won't get my hopes up. So before the rest of you get your hopes up, you may want to look into the recent Donald Charles Isadore case. This guy ran over and killed someone in a crosswalk while prohibited from driving. He has never had a valid drivers license and has been prohibited from driving countless times going back to the 1980's and was once again arrested and prohibited from driving like 3 weeks before this "accident" where he hit and killed someone in a crosswalk and then he was arrested 2 more times shortly after the incident again driving while prohibited. The first judge let him off too light I think with a 6 month jail sentence but then they appealed it arguing that the judge didn't consider his "aboriginal background" so it went to BC supreme court where the judge agreed and reduced his already light sentence to 3 months house arrest. So in short no laws what so ever apply to aboriginals and they can basically get away with murder. Absolute BS. WTF does ones aboriginal background have to do with their running someone over with their truck and killing them? But apparently someones life is worth less than an aboriginal spending any amount of time in prison.

[olympia]

its too bad that we have different laws for different ethnicities in Canada, these sustenance laws may have made sense a long time ago and that's why they enacted but I think everything in life needs to evolute at the same pace so we are all on the same page, maybe we need to open up a dialogue to see what needs to be changed and how. Resident hunters made a good showing for the GOABC fiasco and we should press on full steam ahead to tackle this issue while the iron is still hot. Its amazing what can be accomplished when the "people" stick together united.

[finngun]

Well after the last court case here involving an aboriginal, I won't get my hopes up. So before the rest of you get your hopes up, you may want to look into the recent Donald Charles Isadore case. This guy ran over and killed someone in a crosswalk while prohibited from driving. He has never had a valid drivers license and has been prohibited from driving countless times going back to the 1980's and was once again arrested and prohibited from driving like 3 weeks before this "accident" where he hit and killed someone in a crosswalk and then he was arrested 2 more times shortly after the incident again driving while prohibited. The first judge let him off too light I think with a 6 month jail sentence but then they appealed it arguing that the judge didn't consider his "aboriginal background" so it went to BC supreme court where the judge agreed and reduced his already light sentence to 3 months house arrest. So in short no laws what so ever apply to aboriginals and they can basically get away with murder. Absolute BS. WTF does ones aboriginal background have to do with their running someone over with their truck and killing them? But apparently someones life is worth less than an aboriginal spending any amount of time in prison.

this is sad-sad story....whatta brick---aboriginal background /// has NOTHING to do if somebody is killing a someone??? if i do something like that..can i use my finnish backround as getting lighter sentense:-( what's a diff??? brick-brick..

[Sofa King]

Well after the last court case here involving an aboriginal, I won't get my hopes up. So before the rest of you get your hopes up, you may want to look into the recent Donald Charles Isadore case. This guy ran over and killed someone in a crosswalk while prohibited from driving. He has never had a valid drivers license and has been prohibited from driving countless times going back to the 1980's and was once again arrested and prohibited from driving like 3 weeks before this "accident" where he hit and killed someone in a crosswalk and then he was arrested 2 more times shortly after the incident again driving while prohibited. The first judge let him off too light I think with a 6 month jail sentence but then they appealed it arguing that the judge didn't consider his "aboriginal background" so it went to BC supreme court where the judge agreed and reduced his already light sentence to 3 months house arrest. So in short no laws what so ever apply to aboriginals and they can basically get away with murder. Absolute BS. WTF does ones aboriginal background have to do with their running someone over with their truck and killing them? But apparently someones life is worth less than an aboriginal spending any amount of time in prison.

and, theres the case from a couple years ago in kamloops where the indian killed the priest IN the church. stabbed him in the neck with a pen, i believe. he was found not guilty " because he's an indian, and they cannot be penalized like others". they always fall back on "fetal alcohol syndrome" or the "residential schools" if need be. it's more of a joke that this judge is getting some people's hopes up. this case will end just like the others. waste of a court case.

[ICEWOODY]

Didn't this happen with sockeye this year and the fn band won and also were set up with a business licence and payed tax thus substance was granted. Not on any side of this argument but curious to the president set. I understand hunting and fishing are no way near the same, but they do have certain privileges as FN they are not "rules" per say. They are exemptions to "book"written rules not their rules. On the grounds the hunt is on crown land.

[ICEWOODY]

What I don't understand is that the government won't stand up to the bands in a wildlife protection plan. Anything killed on crown land HAS! To be accounted for. I get it they don't need tags and the bag limits technically can't be verified. I get that. Why not change it and push for a rational system. End of season harvest cards for all animals on crown land, for free and for all hunters. Put the numbers up. And at least the "man of any colour can posses the means to protect this great privilege we have in bc. Let them even not have bag limits but let's be rational ungulates are not fish and they don't arrive in the millions and have a full year of easy media fundedresearch To speculate numbers of fish. These are different animals and need are protection. Thus harvest numbers have gotto be implied of any colour.

[Apolonius]

One thing i like about the story,there are COs that still go after them.Even with the courts and brain dead politicians that let them(natives) do whatever they like.

[markomoose]

Don't care if they are white/native/ chinese/hispanic or African.Judge Begbie would Hang em!

[Everett]

and, theres the case from a couple years ago in kamloops where the indian killed the priest IN the church. stabbed him in the neck with a pen, i believe. he was found not guilty " because he's an indian, and they cannot be penalized like others". they always fall back on "fetal alcohol syndrome" or the "residential schools" if need be. it's more of a joke that this judge is getting some people's hopes up. this case will end just like the others. waste of a court case.

It was a Bishop and he survived he is my wife's uncle. The native guy was seriously mentally unbalanced and his family was try to have him committed.

[Edzzed]

I am all for native rights. If they use the our ancestors did it argument then use the same techniques. That means make your own bow and arrow or learn to make a dugout canoe. And learn to make a teepee.

[papaken]

I am all for native rights. If they use the our ancestors did it argument then use the same techniques. That means make your own bow and arrow or learn to make a dugout canoe. And learn to make a teepee.

Careful what you wish for, I for one don't want to make a wooden spear and go back to my cave. Everyone's ancestors learned to use newer and newer tools as they became available. You know it is our own fault, we never shoulda taught "them" to read . Now they read the rights the government set out for them and put their rights into practice. What bonehead put their aboriginal rights on paper and made them part of the law of the land. If the courts find them guilty or not someone won't be happy but you can't please everyone. I don't agree with everything First Nations people do but I also don't condemn all them for what a few may do. The same as I don't condemn all non-natives for the actions of a few outspoken racists. As for getting off in court I guess "they" could get more lenient sentences if they just used the non-native excuses "abused, neglected, drug addicted, not mentally fit". Nobody it seems in the courts eyes is just a guilty piece of crap that should be in jail. We are all supposed to follow the laws as the government has set them out or vote in a government that will change them to what you want. Sorry for the rant I'm tired and cranky tonight. Hope y'all have a nicer day tomorrow and I can't wait for bear season.

[srupp]

Hmm couple years ago..3? I was sitting outside my travel trailer...1100 pm..seen a bright spotlight maybe 300 yards mabe 500 yards..when 2 quick succession of shots..2 rifles..new law allows night hunting..pitlamping legal for indians..now I choose more carefully where my trailer is parked and I rest to sleep
Srupp

[REMINGTON JIM]

Hmm couple years ago..3? I was sitting outside my travel trailer...1100 pm..seen a bright spotlight maybe 300 yards mabe 500 yards..when 2 quick succession of shots..2 rifles..new law allows night hunting..pitlamping legal for indians..now I choose more carefully where my trailer is parked and I rest to sleep
Srupp

Isn't that so CRAZY ! :mad: WTF is with this - Can't go to sleep with out worrying about a bullet flying through the Camper ! Very Sad ! RJ