Response from bill Bennett

[j270wsm]

Only took 40+ days but he finally responded. Here is my letter



----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:j270wsm@yahoo.com]
Sent: December 30, 2014 5:44 PM
To: Bennett.MLA, Bill
Subject: Hunting allocations




Just wanted to ask, what you think should be done about the recent change to the hunting allocations? Why were they changed and why wasnt the bcwf or the resident hunters included in the decisions. Isn't this new allocation decision against the allocations process from 2007?
Most of the public is against the grizzly hunt because all they see, is it being a trophy hunt. That being said, where is the difference in guided hunts? Most guided hunts are non resident aliens that can't take the meat home. So what happens to the meat?


I have 2 sons ( one who at 11yrs old has taken 8 animals( elk, goat and white tail deer) in 2yrs of hunting) that I want to continue to grow as hunters/outdoorsmen, but how much can we continue to take away from resident hunters and still expect the next generation to have the same opportunity that I had as a child?


As a local elk valley resident( 33yrs) I have seen you fight for us in the mining sector, and watched you fight to help keep certain developments from being developed in pristine wildlife habitat.


I can only hope that a fellow outdoorsman like your self will fight to help make this allocation a little more fair for resident hunters.


Eagerly awaiting your response,


Here is his response......


Thank you for contacting me about the provincial wildlife allocation policy.


I am a resident hunter. I've hunted since childhood and every fall I buy my license and my tags and go out into the mountains to hunt. Over my 14 years as an MLA, the BC Wildlife Federation has awarded me a Life Membership for having my Private Member's Bill, The Heritage Right to Hunt & Fish, passed. The BC Trappers Association and BC Guide Outfitters Association have recognized my efforts on hunting issues and I am a Life Member in the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. I understand how important hunting is to us and I also have experienced how controversial and difficult the wildlife allocation issue is.


I've worked closely with several provincial ministers to find a fair solution to the allocation issue in BC since 2003. For 12 years, I was the only BC MLA who bought a hunting license. This time around, Minister Steve Thomson has worked extremely hard with both the BC Wildlife Federation and with the Guide Outfitters Association of BC to find that elusive balance, with residents getting the large majority of opportunity and guides getting enough of the split to maintain an important industry in BC. We thought we had achieved a fair balance with the minister's announcement in December. But we didn't get it quite right and Minister Thomson has just announced revisions to the policy.


In particular, we made an honest mistake in approving General Open Season for guides on sheep in Region 4. I want to thank Dave White, Chris Stagg and George Wilson for educating me on why we needed to change that and I want to thank Steve Thomson for having the courage to discard that GOS policy on sheep in the Kootenay's. Residents will continue to have GOS on full curl, bighorn rams and guides will have access to full curl rams to the extent that harvest levels are sustainable. I am advised that the historical guide harvest of big horn sheep is not a conservation issue.


In addition to the change on sheep, Minister Thomson has increased the access to grizzly bear tags for residents in Region 4. I am grateful to Minister Thomson for recognizing the uniquely strong interest we have in grizzly bear hunting in the Kootenay's.


White tail deer, mule deer, elk and black bear in Region 4 are not affected by the allocation policy. Residents continue to have GOS for full curl sheep, a fair opportunity for grizzly bear tags and on moose, there is a small improvement for residents. On goats, we get 4% less opportunity across the whole region for tags, a difference that has major significance for guides and minimal impact for us resident hunters. In the rest of the Province, Minister Thomson made a few alterations to favour resident hunters. I can supply details of the other revisions in other regions, if you want them.


Some members of the BC Wildlife Federation have been saying that the new allocation policy could result in 5,000 fewer hunting permits going to BC residents. This is not accurate. The revised allocation model announced February 7th represents a transfer of approximately 60 animals from residents to guides across the whole province, compared to the policy in place in 2013-14. The total reduction is estimated at about 600 hunting opportunities, which is approximately four per cent of the total allocated hunting opportunities in the Province (there are approx. 17,500 total hunting opportunities). Of the 45,700 animals harvested by resident hunters each year in B.C., only, 3,729 are on allocation.


Resident hunters will continue to receive the vast majority of the wildlife allocation, with a stable and predictable percentage. And in our Region 4, resident hunters are impacted only minimally on two species, goat and grizzly bear.


Vacant areas and areas not currently allocated to guides will continue to be maintained as unguided areas, and available for resident hunting. This is particularly important in the Elk Valley.


For those of you who don't pay much attention to what government is doing, you should know that the provincial government has been working on the allocation policy since 2003. It's been difficult if not impossible to design a policy that fixes the uncertainties and unfairness of the old policy, give resident hunters a fair, majority share, while not removing so much allocation from the guide outfitters that many of them go out of business.


One thing that resident hunters have always told me is needed is certainty around the annual allocation. Under the new policy, allocation splits of species will eventually be in legislation. The decision to have clear and legislated/regulated splits for each harvest will result in less discretion in the hands of regional managers - and therefore more certainty for all user groups. Until legislative/regulatory amendments can be made, the allocation splits will be set in policy.


It is tempting for many hunters to think that BC could do without the guide outfitting business, but that is short sighted. Hunters are a tiny minority of the overall population in BC. We need all the allies we can get and the guides are as committed to the future of hunting as us resident hunters are. For example, they have resources to defend the grizzly bear hunt that we benefit from. Guides also bring a lot of valuable intelligence on local wildlife to government managers. I know this because government wildlife biologists tell me that. Frankly, we need to bury the hatchet with the guiding industry and work together on issues important to all hunters, like growing the populations and controlling predators. Guides are not the enemy of resident hunters. Anti-hunters are the enemy. Let's unite against them rather than continuing with this old unproductive feud between the two groups of British Columbians who actually believe in hunting. We'll all be better off for it and so will wildlife.


If you have any questions, please contact me at Bill.Bennett.MLA@leg.bc.ca or call
Dan Peterson, Director of Fish and Wildlife Branch, 250 387-3637.

[Piperdown]

lip service!

[twanger]

Got the same response today from Bill, like piper said, lip service.....

[kebes]

Some members of the BC Wildlife Federation have been saying that the new allocation policy could result in 5,000 fewer hunting permits going to BC residents. This is not accurate. The revised allocation model announced February 7th represents a transfer of approximately 60 animals from residents to guides across the whole province, compared to the policy in place in 2013-14. The total reduction is estimated at about 600 hunting opportunities, which is approximately four per cent of the total allocated hunting opportunities in the Province (there are approx. 17,500 total hunting opportunities). Of the 45,700 animals harvested by resident hunters each year in B.C., only, 3,729 are on allocation.



I would be writing back and asking what the number of animals transferred is based on 1.) The industry standard of 10% and 2.) The 2007 policy that was agreed to. All of the sudden that number is going to get a whole lot bigger!

[guest]

Nothing short of a sell off ....... And coming from an MLA that said he didn't give a -hit ...... I don't expect any thing different ....... He drinks the kool aid in huge volume ........ Pension check around the corner ?

Your grand kids won't thank you Bill.

CT

[Bugle M In]

Nothing short of a sell off ....... And coming from an MLA that said he didn't give a -hit ...... I don't expect any thing different ....... He drinks the kool aid in huge volume ........ Pension check around the corner ?

Your grand kids won't thank you Bill.

CT

They might thank him???!!
If they grow up in money...than all is good!

I could give 2 S**** about his kids and grand kids...they will be well off.

It my children and yours I worry about!

[adriaticum]

He covered lots and some things about his role we can't deny.

I would respond like this.

Mr Bennett.

You claim you have been trying to strike a balance that will keep both resident hunters and guides happy.
Now how did you find that balance? What numbers did you use as your base line to come up with these allocation numbers?
The numbers are far leaning toward the guides than any other jurisdiction in the North America.
If I was looking for balance I would certainly research what other jurisdictions are doing.
How is it that 60 percent for 100,000 is balanced with 40 percent for the 4,000.
What continuum is that called balance in?

But in fact, Mr Bennett, you are propping an industry that science can't sustain because they have supported your political campaigns and "other ventures".
You are giving them provisions that absolve them of any responsibility for over harvest.

Also you say that we should join the GOABC because they have the "resources" to sustain the grizzly hunt.
Now why does one need "resources" to influence policy in the current political climate. Did we not agree that hunts are going to be based on science and if science supports it, no amount of "resources" would change that.
But in fact what you are saying is that you are prepared to take any cash from lobbyists for any cause because it suits liberal party's ambitions.
So no, we should not need "resources" to influence policy.
Guides have no "resources" other than cash they can spend without fear of loosing their business license, or their non-profit status.

Policy should be based on science, principles, sound judgement.



Now he might just tell you to f' off and that he doesn't need your vote.

[GoatGuy]

GOABC's back pocket.

[Wild one]

In nice words he told you to pound sand and like it

[J_T]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.

So you are happy with the splits?

[GoatGuy]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.

Unfortunately you don't have 'full disclosure' on allocations in the EK and Bennett's role in that. Or the history on what he has done....... and then said he has done.

I'm pretty sure things will start to come to light in the next two weeks.

[GoatGuy]

Region 4 Allocation History Summary


Please take a moment to read this summary. I’ve put together information gathered from multiple EKWA/BCWF members that were involved in this Allocation Issue since the beginning. It’s taken some time for me to hone it down to something simple that I hope will give everyone a better understanding of the Please note, this issue shouldn’t be considered a “battle against the Outfitters”, they are simply a competing interest that is represented by the commercial sector. The BCWF strongly believes that resident hunters should get priority when it comes down to splitting up the opportunity to hunt within our province.


Something else to point out is that in other jurisdictions across the continent, the splits from the 1984 policy would still be considered generous, and the splits being forced on us today would be considered the most generous non-resident allocation south of the Northern Territories.


Starting in 1984, negotiated percentage splits between residents/ non-residents were:


Moose – 92/8

Grizzlies – 70/30

Sheep – 75/25

Goats – 75/25


Starting in 2002 and again in 2005, these splits were adjusted without consultation with resident hunters (behind closed doors), although it was a requirement of the 1984 allocation policy. Between 2002 and 2006 the outfitters refused to participate in allocation meetings per the allocation policy that existed at that time. Allocation for outfitters grew at an unprecedented rate due to backroom deals between F&W Cranbrook/Nelson offices and SGO outfitters. Residents were left out of these discussions completely and in 2006 just before the allocation review started outfitter allocations were historically the highest they had ever been (see attachment). When the allocation review started we shockingly realized how high they really were and following the attempted implementation of the new policy they did drop a little bit but by now most outfitters had fell into a business model that depended on these inflated allocations. They found out they couldn't maintain on reasonable allocations so their campaign to increase or at least maintain inflated allocations began.


They were set behind closed doors and without consultation with resident hunters or the BCWF at:


Moose – 71/29 (Resident portion down 21%)

Grizzlies – 70/30 (same as last negotiated)

Sheep – 59/41 (down 16 percentage points from last negotiated)

Goats – 45/55 (down 30 percentage point from last negotiated)

[j270wsm]

Here is my response to his letter.......

Im glad you responded. I have 3 possibly 4 points I want to make.


First off, thank you for the reply. I would have been nice to get this a little sooner, I didn't expect it to take 42 days to get a response. Better late than never, I guess


Secondly.....


I do not support this newly revised allocation. I have never seen the government step in to help save a failing small business by giving them anything like tax breaks, so why are we giving the guides a hand out( increased tags)?


If the local guides cannot financially keep their business running then maybe they shouldn't be in business.


For example, our moose population is steadily dropping while the wolf population is increasing. But there are a lot of guides that don't offer wolf hunts......so we reward a failing business by increasing their allotment of moose tags.
So what happens in 2yrs when the wolf population is higher and moose population is even lower? Do we continue to help the guides failing business? Or do we say......sorry, you couldn't adapt your business, so......there is nothing we can do to help.


Third.......


How are the resident hunters supposed to believe this will save the guides, If this new allocation is only actually giving guides 60 more tags. There are more than 200 members of the goabc and many independent guide/outfitters. So that works out to less than .3 of a tag for each guide/outfitter. Which could be ~ $1500-3500 depending on specie tag. This barely covers cost the cost of food, fuel, and paying their guides/wrangler.


Most importantly......


I feel that 10-15% is more than enough allocation for the guides. After all there is a large majority of guide/outfitter business' that are foreign owned and they put very little into our economy.


There are also a lot of guides that will NOT take resident hunters on a guided hunt for fear of showing us where to hunt.


I feel this new allocation is a joke!!!!!!
Resident hunters should always be put first. Guiding companies shouldn't be allowed to be foreign owned/operated. Non resident hunters should have to apply for the tags similar to our leh ( government makes more money this way ) then they can choose to go on a DIY hunt( which injects more into our economy) or even hire a guide.


Lastly.........


When I don't adapt to economical short falls the government doesn't offer to help me with financial opportunity, so the guide/outfitters that are failing should be allowed to go bankrupt.


I know this last comment doesn't really effect you, but, due to the allocation issue, there are a lot of people that are planning on voting against the liberal party. So maybe some of the liberal party should apply some pressure on Clark and Thompson, or......maybe they don't care about having a job in the future.


Looking forward to your response, hopefully it won't take another 40+ days.


Thanks

[GoatGuy]

In 2007, an Allocation Policy was negotiated fairly and agreed to by all parties at the time (including GOABC). This policy was based on the use of a formula/calculator under the new Harvest Allocation Procedure. 2007 to 2011 is also the implementation period for the new policies so these percentages will be subject to adjustment under the terms of the Implementation Strategy.


Moose – 90/10 (up 19 percentage points)

Grizzlies – 77/23 (up 7 percentage point)

Sheep – 71/29 (up 12 percentage points)

Goats – 69/31 (up 24 percentage points)


2007 to 2011 adjusted allocations following application of the Implementation Strategy. Under the terms of the Implementation Strategy maximum change will be 20% or less to the smallest share. Success factors may be used, and allocation may be by region rather than by MU for the 2007 to 2011 allocation period only.


Moose – 77/23 (up 6 percentage points from 2006)

Grizzlies – 76.6/23.4 (up 7 percentage points from 2006)

Sheep – 71/29 (up 12 percentage points from 2006)

Goats – 69/31 (up 24 percentage points from 2006)


In 2012, the calculator was again run with the following results:


2012 - 2016 calculated percentages:


Moose – 79/21 (up 2.0%)

Grizzlies – 74/26 (down 2.6%)

Sheep - 68/32 (down 3%)

Goats – 69/31 (unchanged)


Put in Table format:


Species


Moose


Grizzly


Sheep


Goats


*resident/non-resident allocation percentage **Percentage difference from 2006


Then in 2014 we have the Thomson Decision. This was not negotiated openly. A few ideas were “couched” but no formal negotiation occurred.


Species 2012 - 2016


Moose 79/21 80/20 1% 12%

Grizzly 74/26 60/40 14% 10%

Sheep 68/32 GOS-No Split Unprecedented

Goats 69/31 65/35 4% 10%


*Percentage difference compared to 1984 policy


So you may be wondering why the BCWF is taking such a hard stance on the subject. We think this is not giving priority to resident hunters. This clearly represents a government decision to subsidise the outfitting industry off the backs of the residents. We negotiated the policy fairly in 2007 and were provided with a commitment that the policy would be followed.


Several years ago the BCWF made a resolution in regards to Harvest Allocation Policy. It reads:


IF ANY CHANGES ARE MADE TO THE WILDLIFE ALLOCATION POLICY


THE BCWF WILL PURSUE LEGISLATED SPLITS of 75/25 for sheep/goats and grizzly and 90/10 for


moose/elk/bison.


Notice the word IF-


“If” has come.


1984 - 2002 2002 - 2006plus/minus 2007 - 2011plus/minus 2007 - 2011 Imp Strat**plus/minus 2012 - 2016 plus/minus


92/8 71/29 21% 90/10 19% 77/23 6% 79/21 2%


70/30 70/30 No Change 77/23 7% 76.6/23.4 7% 74/26 3%


75/25 59/41 16% 71/29 12% 71/29 12% 68/32 3%


75/25 45/55 30% 69/31 24% 69/31 24% 69/31 No Change

[325]

In 2007, an Allocation Policy was negotiated fairly and agreed to by all parties at the time (including GOABC). This policy was based on the use of a formula/calculator under the new Harvest Allocation Procedure. 2007 to 2011 is also the implementation period for the new policies so these percentages will be subject to adjustment under the terms of the Implementation Strategy.


Moose – 90/10 (up 19 percentage points)

Grizzlies – 77/23 (up 7 percentage point)

Sheep – 71/29 (up 12 percentage points)

Goats – 69/31 (up 24 percentage points)


2007 to 2011 adjusted allocations following application of the Implementation Strategy. Under the terms of the Implementation Strategy maximum change will be 20% or less to the smallest share. Success factors may be used, and allocation may be by region rather than by MU for the 2007 to 2011 allocation period only.


Moose – 77/23 (up 6 percentage points from 2006)

Grizzlies – 76.6/23.4 (up 7 percentage points from 2006)

Sheep – 71/29 (up 12 percentage points from 2006)

Goats – 69/31 (up 24 percentage points from 2006)


In 2012, the calculator was again run with the following results:


2012 - 2016 calculated percentages:


Moose – 79/21 (up 2.0%)

Grizzlies – 74/26 (down 2.6%)

Sheep - 68/32 (down 3%)

Goats – 69/31 (unchanged)


Put in Table format:


Species


Moose


Grizzly


Sheep


Goats


*resident/non-resident allocation percentage **Percentage difference from 2006


Then in 2014 we have the Thomson Decision. This was not negotiated openly. A few ideas were “couched” but no formal negotiation occurred.


Species 2012 - 2016


Moose 79/21 80/20 1% 12%

Grizzly 74/26 60/40 14% 10%

Sheep 68/32 GOS-No Split Unprecedented

Goats 69/31 65/35 4% 10%


*Percentage difference compared to 1984 policy


So you may be wondering why the BCWF is taking such a hard stance on the subject. We think this is not giving priority to resident hunters. This clearly represents a government decision to subsidise the outfitting industry off the backs of the residents. We negotiated the policy fairly in 2007 and were provided with a commitment that the policy would be followed.


Several years ago the BCWF made a resolution in regards to Harvest Allocation Policy. It reads:


IF ANY CHANGES ARE MADE TO THE WILDLIFE ALLOCATION POLICY


THE BCWF WILL PURSUE LEGISLATED SPLITS of 75/25 for sheep/goats and grizzly and 90/10 for


moose/elk/bison.


Notice the word IF-


“If” has come.


1984 - 2002 2002 - 2006plus/minus 2007 - 2011plus/minus 2007 - 2011 Imp Strat**plus/minus 2012 - 2016 plus/minus


92/8 71/29 21% 90/10 19% 77/23 6% 79/21 2%


70/30 70/30 No Change 77/23 7% 76.6/23.4 7% 74/26 3%


75/25 59/41 16% 71/29 12% 71/29 12% 68/32 3%


75/25 45/55 30% 69/31 24% 69/31 24% 69/31 No Change

These are the numbers that need to be communicated via the media (social and mainstream).

[Ride Red]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.

Thanks for the support J_T, I guess we know where you stand. Is Bennett a relative???

[Wild one]

These are the numbers that need to be communicated via the media (social and mainstream).


Agree I think you will find more than 60 tag opportunities being lost by resident hunters

[The Dawg]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.


Just dont...you have no clue....and I mean no....clue.....

[Piperdown]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.

Well I guess we all cant be as smart as you!

[J_T]

So you are happy with the splits?
Thanks for asking the question. No, I'm not happy with the splits.

[J_T]

Just dont...you have no clue....and I mean no....clue.....

Hey, I'm not challenging the work you've done. I believe, you and others have worked tirelessly to raise awareness and affect change. I applaud that.

[J_T]

Thanks for the support J_T, I guess we know where you stand. Is Bennett a relative???

Do you? To quote someone else on here, "you have no clue".

[tuner]

mr.bennetts response was a rehash of the ministery news release, almost word for word.It took 42 days for him to respond, because he did not have answers for you,until thompsons dept.came up with numbers and a statement.I'm still confused as to how a loss of 600 hunting opportunitys for resident hunters,only translate into a transfer of 60 animals to GO.Confused,as to who on gods green earth, thought having the guides on GOS for sheep in region 4 would neither affect resident hunter opportunity or pose a conservation concern.(i'm convinced that the R4 GOS sheep hunt for guides,was deliberately designed as a barganing chip against resident hunters,in anticipation of resident reactions to dec 10th allocation splits.If residents had remained silent, the guides would have gotten an unprecedented windfall,if RH's sqwaked, then R4 GOS could be resciended, and resident hunters would have been appeased,and hopefully % splits forgotten.)

[GoatGuy]

mr.bennetts response was a rehash of the ministery news release, almost word for word.It took 42 days for him to respond, because he did not have answers for you,until thompsons dept.came up with numbers and a statement.I'm still confused as to how a loss of 600 hunting opportunitys for resident hunters,only translate into a transfer of 60 animals to GO.Confused,as to who on gods green earth, thought having the guides on GOS for sheep in region 4 would neither affect resident hunter opportunity or pose a conservation concern.(i'm convinced that the R4 GOS sheep hunt for guides,was deliberately designed as a barganing chip against resident hunters,in anticipation of resident reactions to dec 10th allocation splits.If residents had remained silent, the guides would have gotten an unprecedented windfall,if RH's sqwaked, then R4 GOS could be resciended, and resident hunters would have been appeased,and hopefully % splits forgotten.)
Until 2007 the resident hunter share of the allocation for sheep was 75%. Now it's 60%. That is the lowest it has ever been.

Sounds like Mr.Bennett has done a great job for the people in the EK. The folks in the EK should be thankful they have an MLA who has allowed them to continue to be on GOS for black bears.

[kebes]

His numbers are brutal. I just went through last years LEH synopsis and looked at bull moose in Region 7A. Assuming a 20% success rate for resident hunters - and that my math is somewhat accurate (it was never my wheel house) - we're losing roughly 70 Moose in Region 7A alone (if we're working from a 90/10 split).

I'd love to know if anyone has info on what the actual success rate is that is expected from resident hunters, I could try and get a bit more accurate number.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Yep. The back door has finally been closed. Now the don't door is being held wide open by our thoughtful government. Too bad they are not holding it for us.

[IronNoggin]

mr.bennetts response was a rehash of the ministery news release, almost word for word.It took 42 days for him to respond, because he did not have answers for you...

He had to await his Mistress's Ruling on the matter http://bigshotsbc.ca/images/smilies/Owned.gif

As she continues to do today... :evil:

Nog

Edited to add - I can still recall the day when that simple thought would have Excited at least one member here... http://bigshotsbc.ca/images/smilies/Wink2.gif

[Ride Red]

Do you? To quote someone else on here, "you have no clue".

Yes I do have a clue and I'm pitching in to raise awareness of the issue, what have you done beside flap your gums???

[nelsonob1]

JT,

When you say, "Bennett has done more for hunting than any politician since Roosevelt" would you mind supporting that claim. I am sincerely interested in understanding and appreciating your point and it would be helpful if you could highlight some of the main work Mr Bennett has done for hunters. Thank you.


I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.

We are aware that you think by having less allocation, residents will be forced into bow only seasons to keep harvest down, which is your main goal. And that's fine, at least it's obvious, and people understand that. You've stated to BCWF members that you want to see fewer people in the bush, too, so there's no secret there how a lower resident allocation meets that goal for you.

Other than that, pray tell how in the hell you can put Bill Bennett and Teddy Roosevelt in the same sentence?

[Ride Red]

Some reading for you J_T, tell me if Bennett holds a candle to TR.

http://www.nps.gov/thro/historyculture/theodore-roosevelt-and-conservation.htm

[Apolonius]

To me personally what he HAS done, means nothing.People like this let you know only what they want you to know.They do their damage behind closed doors. What he is doing now with the allocation it does mean a lot.He and his buddies are screwing all of us today and generations after us.And all of this for what????Donations????Connections????And by saying residents are a small percentage ,he tells me how much the Liberals care about us.Well mr bennet the resident hunter has done more good for this province than you .And the resident hunter will be paying for your fat pension for years to come.Maybe one day someone should teach our kids in school what many politicians have done to screw all the bc residents ,for their benefit.And personally NDP any other party is not as scary a thought as the thought of the Liberals getting re elected.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I'm beginning to think that what BB has done for the resident hunters of BC is a mere by-product of what he has done for the GOABC and their industry.

SSS

[Whonnock Boy]

Sorry, but any politician who is trying to justify this policy, regardless of his previous accolades, receives zero respect from me. As for his honorary BCWF lifetime membership, it should be revoked.

[Bugle M In]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.



JT and Benny....have fun!
After those words, I would never consider you one of us!!
Your Avatar probably says it all???!!!.

[Bugle M In]

Roosevelt and Bennet in the same bracket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REALLY......
GIVE YOU HEAD A SHAKE JT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We should all commend Roosevelt for everything he stood for and accomplished for wildlife and habitat conservation.

Bennet can be commended for being a lazy, good for nothing rat, in my books....far from a savior of any sort.
All he ever chases has $$$$ signs behind it...period.

[adriaticum]

I'm beginning to think that what BB has done for the resident hunters of BC is a mere by-product of what he has done for the GOABC and their industry.

SSS

I fully agree with this assessment.
I would say unless he goes hunting and someone can confirm that, this is exactly what's going on.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I fully agree with this assessment.
I would say unless he goes hunting and someone can confirm that, this is exactly what's going on.

I don't doubt he actually does go hunting when he can. Probably sticks to GOS species...or gets an extra moose tag that his friends can't sell.

[btridge]

Sorry, but any politician who is trying to justify this policy, regardless of his previous accolades, receives zero respect from me. As for his honorary BCWF lifetime membership, it should be revoked.

I second that thought!

[Big Lew]

I'm beginning to think that what BB has done for the resident hunters of BC is a mere by-product of what he has done for the GOABC and their industry.

SSS

I agree with you. I also agree that what someone has done productively in the past is history....what they
are willing to do now is what makes a man of integrity. Like many of us, I have accomplished and done
some things I'm very proud of....it means little. What I do now and tomorrow is what people are interested in.

[Seeker]

Do we have any idea what percentage of those "45,700 animals harvested by resident hunters each year in B.C." are animals that come from GOS? This is pretty evident it is another number they are throwing out to try and minimize the effect of this policy to the general public. A better question may be "What percentage of the allocated species did the residents harvest? Or what is the number of animals harvested by the guides in comparison to the 3,729 harvested by residents? Apples to Apples.

[skibum]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.


Agree with most of this post. I want to help out with the allocation fight/organization, but then hear/read some the of the idiotic comments made and just think, not time to get involved yet.

[tuner]

Do we have any idea what percentage of those "45,700 animals harvested by resident hunters each year in B.C." are animals that come from GOS? This is pretty evident it is another number they are throwing out to try and minimize the effect of this policy to the general public. A better question may be "What percentage of the allocated species did the residents harvest? Or what is the number of animals harvested by the guides in comparison to the 3,729 harvested by residents? Apples to Apples.
This is a great point,and a great question. This is the million dollar question that no politician or the GOABC excutive wants to answer.

[one-shot-wonder]

Agree with most of this post. I want to help out with the allocation fight/organization, but then hear/read some the of the idiotic comments made and just think, not time to get involved yet.

So we can count on you to be shoulder to shoulder with other residents on the lawn of the leg Mar 2??

[Paulyman]

My response to his generic letter.

I have only one queston. Why is it so important to bail out guide outfitters? Especially at the expense of resident hunters.

You have no idea the feeling of sickness this new policy has made me feel over the last month or so, it's almost like a dream. I can't believe that were becoming one of those countries that it's own resident one day won't be able to access it's own wildlife.

This will go down in history as your, Christy Clark and Steve Thomson's biggest failure, mark my words.

[Maxx]

GOABC's back pocket.

Isn't he on our side GG?

[one-shot-wonder]

This will go down in history as your, Christy Clark and Steve Thomson's biggest failure, mark my words.

Nail on head!!!!!!

[6616]

I'm surprised with the responses by hunters here. What did you expect Bennett to say? His response is far more than lip service, unless you haven't got the intelligence to really hear what he's saying.

For the record, when you are all saying, "ALL RESIDENTS" feel or believe. Please don't include me as a resident in that statement. I'm becoming more disenchanted with residents every day. Bennett has done more for hunting that any politician since Theodore Roosevelt.

I find a tremendous amount of mob mentality, judgement and bullshit from the hunting community itself on this issue. I'm surprised by it in fact. It suggests to me you really aren't as wise and all knowing as you are making out to have others believe as you ramp up your 'strategy' if you can call it that.

What will you do if you don't vote Liberal? haha NDP?

Beat the Liberals up on allocation and then hope they consider your application to become a part of a land use decisions as a stakeholder.


I know this is not specifically Bill's fault Jim, but are you aware that non-resident allocations in the EK have increased steadily ever since 2001 when the Liberals first formed government. Residents shares recovered significantly under the 2007 agreement but GOABC wasted no time in lobbying that out of existence and Government responded quickly to GOABC concerns while ignoring those of BC residents. Of course as non-residents share increased residents share had to decrease by an equal amount. How long do you expect resident hunters to just sit by and do nothing...? It's not about the 2 or 3% that changed on Dec 7th or Feb 6th, it's about what has happened over the last ten years and where and when is it ever going to end..!

[The Dawg]

Isn't he on our side GG?


To our face...yes.....

[skibum]

So we can count on you to be shoulder to shoulder with other residents on the lawn of the leg Mar 2??

No.

I did travel to Kelowna for the rally there.

[one-shot-wonder]

No.

I did travel to Kelowna for the rally there.

Glad to here, hope to meet you in Vic

[btridge]

I know this is not specifically Bill's fault Jim, but are you aware that non-resident allocations in the EK have increased steadily ever since 2001 when the Liberals first formed government. Residents shares recovered significantly under the 2007 agreement but GOABC wasted no time in lobbying that out of existence and Government responded quickly to GOABC concerns while ignoring those of BC residents. Of course as non-residents share increased residents share had to decrease by an equal amount. How long do you expect resident hunters to just sit by and do nothing...? It's not about the 2 or 3% that changed on Dec 7th or Feb 6th, it's about what has happened over the last ten years and where and when is it ever going to end..!

by their own numbers, the feb 7th allocation grab is 4% more of the allocation to the outfitters!

[GoatGuy]

Isn't he on our side GG?
Thought so until I saw something the other day. Think it will be in the paper soon

[J_T]

I applaud the investigative research Dawg is doing, I agree with the coordination others are doing. It is important to have information on the issue.



I know this is not specifically Bill's fault Jim, but are you aware that non-resident allocations in the EK have increased steadily ever since 2001 when the Liberals first formed government. Residents shares recovered significantly under the 2007 agreement but GOABC wasted no time in lobbying that out of existence and Government responded quickly to GOABC concerns while ignoring those of BC residents. Of course as non-residents share increased residents share had to decrease by an equal amount. How long do you expect resident hunters to just sit by and do nothing...? It's not about the 2 or 3% that changed on Dec 7th or Feb 6th, it's about what has happened over the last ten years and where and when is it ever going to end..!

I’m not condoning the actions of politicians particularly; my point is really about how people are treating each other. I would be hopeful that this movement leads to a good discussion about a better solution and it’s very difficult to go in to any discussion when there is a significant adversarial relationship.
Some of the statements being made leave little room for a meaningful discussion and successful alternative solution. I’m also confused what resident hunters see as their ‘best alternative’ to their desired solution. Come election day what options are hunters leaving for themselves. I guess we’ll see. The other political parties are likely rubbing their hands in anticipation.


We are aware that you think by having less allocation, residents will be forced into bow only seasons to keep harvest down, which is your main goal. And that's fine, at least it's obvious, and people understand that. You've stated to BCWF members that you want to see fewer people in the bush, too, so there's no secret there how a lower resident allocation meets that goal for you.

Other than that, pray tell how in the hell you can put Bill Bennett and Teddy Roosevelt in the same sentence?
What I personally want is not really important, however this should open awareness to see the logic of (in some cases) less LEH being a good thing and implementing a different (conservation) approach to creating opportunity through alternative weapons. Specifically so we are not catering to the hunter management (LEH) wishes of the guiding industry limiting hunters in their territory.



Don’t give me ‘no one wants to bowhunt’. There are so many on here who would agree a bow season is not a bad thing. But you always come back to your position, bowhunting is such a horrible and evil thing. I’m asking you to step back from your personal bias toward me and ask the question, if we did not have LEH, and you could hunt in a MU, or a guides territory at any time in the season is that not still a good hunt for me? At least we’re hunting. Why wait 20 years for an LEH that may never come through?


I don’t think I’ve ‘ever’ said, I ‘want’ to see less people in the bush. I know I’ve said, I enjoy seeing less people in the bush. There is a difference. But I’m sure you’ll find a quote somewhere.
Bennett and Roosevelt, used as a comparison. Sure, it might have been a stretch and in conversation we say things that are easily modified and put in to context. On the internet not so easy.
My point is, not many other politicians have cared as much about wildlife and hunters. We certainly applauded the work done when legislation was created identifying and protecting a right to hunt. Two politicians who stepped up at a time when hunting or wildlife were vulnerable. How quickly we forget people who have worked hard for something we too believe in.


Yes I do have a clue and I'm pitching in to raise awareness of the issue, what have you done beside flap your gums???
I don’t post 2000 posts a year, like some do, so I wouldn’t characterize myself as a gum flapper. I do pay attention. Yet you judge me, without knowing me. Your passion and comments and statements of others has no restriction on what one hunter might say about or to another. Seems to confirm my mob mentality statement. It doesn't leave much room for a meaningful discussion on alternatives.



What have I done? What I’ve done in the past doesn’t matter I guess. What I’ve done on this issue? Met with both Thompson and Bennett.

[Ride Red]

I applaud the investigative research Dawg is doing, I agree with the coordination others are doing. It is important to have information on the issue.




I’m not condoning the actions of politicians particularly; my point is really about how people are treating each other. I would be hopeful that this movement leads to a good discussion about a better solution and it’s very difficult to go in to any discussion when there is a significant adversarial relationship.
Some of the statements being made leave little room for a meaningful discussion and successful alternative solution. I’m also confused what resident hunters see as their ‘best alternative’ to their desired solution. Come election day what options are hunters leaving for themselves. I guess we’ll see. The other political parties are likely rubbing their hands in anticipation.


What I personally want is not really important, however this should open awareness to see the logic of (in some cases) less LEH being a good thing and implementing a different (conservation) approach to creating opportunity through alternative weapons. Specifically so we are not catering to the hunter management (LEH) wishes of the guiding industry limiting hunters in their territory.



Don’t give me ‘no one wants to bowhunt’. There are so many on here who would agree a bow season is not a bad thing. But you always come back to your position, bowhunting is such a horrible and evil thing. I’m asking you to step back from your personal bias toward me and ask the question, if we did not have LEH, and you could hunt in a MU, or a guides territory at any time in the season is that not still a good hunt for me? At least we’re hunting. Why wait 20 years for an LEH that may never come through?


I don’t think I’ve ‘ever’ said, I ‘want’ to see less people in the bush. I know I’ve said, I enjoy seeing less people in the bush. There is a difference. But I’m sure you’ll find a quote somewhere.
Bennett and Roosevelt, used as a comparison. Sure, it might have been a stretch and in conversation we say things that are easily modified and put in to context. On the internet not so easy.
My point is, not many other politicians have cared as much about wildlife and hunters. We certainly applauded the work done when legislation was created identifying and protecting a right to hunt. Two politicians who stepped up at a time when hunting or wildlife were vulnerable. How quickly we forget people who have worked hard for something we too believe in.


I don’t post 2000 posts a year, like some do, so I wouldn’t characterize myself as a gum flapper. I do pay attention. Yet you judge me, without knowing me. Your passion and comments and statements of others has no restriction on what one hunter might say about or to another. Seems to confirm my mob mentality statement. It doesn't leave much room for a meaningful discussion on alternatives.



What have I done? What I’ve done in the past doesn’t matter I guess. What I’ve done on this issue? Met with both Thompson and Bennett.

And what was your take on that meeting? We're you still impressed by Bennett or blasted with the political snowball? I'm curious to hear the results. My opinion of this whole situation is we've been back doored and basically told to accept what we get. I like many on this site have grown up fighting for what we have today and won't for a minute put up with being less than a second class system supporter. The political bulldozer needs to stop now and anybody not supporting the cause will be walked on as we all go forward. We all need to unite to win this battle before all our rights are gone, bow hunting included.

[Wild one]

If you want support in this fight don't piss off other resident hunters

This will loose the battle right now many have there different views on hunting and wildlife management that already that cause tension. Keep to common ground if you want the support.

No one wants to fight beside someone they would rather punch in the face.

Red Ride read your own sig line and gain peoples support not push them away

[Ride Red]

And we're not forgetting what these politicians have done in the past, but it's there current actions that have created this mess we're dealing with now. If you really want to look deeper into this, was this Bennett's plan from the beginning to set himself and the GOABC up? Sometimes political agendas don't come into play for years, then the magic day comes and we're all blind sided? This is only a theory as who knows the actual truth or if we'll ever know. But again, I do know one thing, all of us need to make our position known and stand up for what we believe is right, whether your sitting on the fence or not. If you don't take the time now to show up, you'll have lots of time later to cry about it looking for a new hobby. My two cents.

[Ride Red]

If you want support in this fight don't piss off other resident hunters

This will loose the battle right now many have there different views on hunting and wildlife management that already that cause tension. Keep to common ground if you want the support.

No one wants to fight beside someone they would rather punch in the face.

Red Ride read your own sig line and gain peoples support not push them away

Wild One,
Funny how a few people get upset when they are called on what they post. I don't have much use for people who support the ones that have put us in this position. So how are you trying to create common ground by posting the highlighted line, Really???

[J_T]

And what was your take on that meeting? We're you still impressed by Bennett or blasted with the political snowball? I'm curious to hear the results. My opinion of this whole situation is we've been back doored and basically told to accept what we get. I like many on this site have grown up fighting for what we have today and won't for a minute put up with being less than a second class system supporter. The political bulldozer needs to stop now and anybody not supporting the cause will be walked on as we all go forward. We all need to unite to win this battle before all our rights are gone, bow hunting included. Seems to me, you mean, anyone who doesn't agree with your approach. What is your skill set and experience in lobbying? Have you clearly thought through that a beat the shit out of everyone else approach is the best approach to get a favourable solution?

I'm a resident hunter, I'm proud to be one. I've worked hard for hunting and wildlife over the years. I've paid my dues and entitled to my opinion. Just because I'm not willing to get in the ring and throw a punch, doesn't make me wrong and doesn't mean you shouldn't be listening to others.

I've heard the banter/information from both sides, my background is in mediation and in my opinion I'm not sure your approach leaves much room for favourable negotiation. And that, impacts me. You obviously have a choice. Include others, listen to the quiet people who are paying attention and who might give you some interesting perspectives or ignore your signature line and continue to blaze on.

[The Dawg]

Those that are saying "Bennett is a friend of the hunting community"....

http://4closurefraud.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/clock.jpg

[Wentrot]

Those that are saying "Bennett is a friend of the hunting community"....



.....Ate the red pill.

[adriaticum]

Seems to me, you mean, anyone who doesn't agree with your approach. What is your skill set and experience in lobbying? Have you clearly thought through that a beat the shit out of everyone else approach is the best approach to get a favourable solution?

I'm a resident hunter, I'm proud to be one. I've worked hard for hunting and wildlife over the years. I've paid my dues and entitled to my opinion. Just because I'm not willing to get in the ring and throw a punch, doesn't make me wrong and doesn't mean you shouldn't be listening to others.

I've heard the banter/information from both sides, my background is in mediation and in my opinion I'm not sure your approach leaves much room for favourable negotiation. And that, impacts me. You obviously have a choice. Include others, listen to the quiet people who are paying attention and who might give you some interesting perspectives or ignore your signature line and continue to blaze on.

J_T, mediation sometimes works.
This is what has been tried for a decade now and it didn't work in this instance.
Time for some radical action.

[Ride Red]

Seems to me, you mean, anyone who doesn't agree with your approach. What is your skill set and experience in lobbying? Have you clearly thought through that a beat the shit out of everyone else approach is the best approach to get a favourable solution?

I'm a resident hunter, I'm proud to be one. I've worked hard for hunting and wildlife over the years. I've paid my dues and entitled to my opinion. Just because I'm not willing to get in the ring and throw a punch, doesn't make me wrong and doesn't mean you shouldn't be listening to others.

I've heard the banter/information from both sides, my background is in mediation and in my opinion I'm not sure your approach leaves much room for favourable negotiation. And that, impacts me. You obviously have a choice. Include others, listen to the quiet people who are paying attention and who might give you some interesting perspectives or ignore your signature line and continue to blaze on.

Well J_T, you do have the right to your own opinion, but sitting on our ass waiting for our elected officials to correct there wrong isn't in our best interest. Judging by your avatar, you may have a different position in all this for a reason. If we do fail, I at least know that I've done my best at trying to protect our present and future generations rights.

[Wild one]

Wild One,
Funny how a few people get upset when they are called on what they post. I don't have much use for people who support the ones that have put us in this position. So how are you trying to create common ground by posting the highlighted line, Really???

Basically what I am saying is you will get more support if you use logic to validate your points rather than be abrasive.

People are more willing to fight with you if you show them facts to support your fight rather than talk down to them. JT even said he did not agree with the % of the split but yet you focused on him saying he has seen good thing come from Bennett in the past

Now would it not be smarter to try and gain the mans support on the big picture we all agree is wrong rather than focuse on the fact JT has had good past experiences with Bennett?

If resident hunters cannot figure out the correct answer to that ? We all loose. You want support to grow not dwindle

I will leave it at that and hope you understand

[GoatGuy]

Focus on getting this changed folks.

Don't worry about the details..... big picture.

[Ride Red]

Basically what I am saying is you will get more support if you use logic to validate your points rather than be abrasive.

People are more willing to fight with you if you show them facts to support your fight rather than talk down to them. JT even said he did not agree with the % of the split but yet you focused on him saying he has seen good thing come from Bennett in the past

Now would it not be smarter to try and gain the mans support on the big picture we all agree is wrong rather than focuse on the fact JT has had good past experiences with Bennett?

If resident hunters cannot figure out the correct answer to that ? We all loose. You want support to grow not dwindle

I will leave it at that and hope you understand

I understand plenty, hope to see you at the rally in Victoria.

[The Dawg]

Wow.

Apparently theres a leaked email from Bennett where hes trying to push around a jr official to get his GO friend a non-tenured area added to his territory.

NDP read it out in the Leg!


Bennett is a friend of hunters?



Woof...woof





http://schools.nlsd.org/jrhsnlsd/images/wallpapers/full/bewareofdog_1920.jpg

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Nice digging, Dawg!!!

Yep. He's such a good ally he doubles as the enemy.

BTW- I think the BC Legislature channel may just blow away previous ratings records.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

For Telus customers, it's channel 843 at least where I live.

[Ride Red]

Your The Dawg that I need guarding my house. Don't mess with the Dawg!!!

[nelsonob1]

J_T - thank you for your various responses. I appreciate the clarity of your thoughts and perspective and the quietness of your effort. there is room for many levels of approach in this issue and at some point resident hunters will need your type of skills.


Seems to me, you mean, anyone who doesn't agree with your approach. What is your skill set and experience in lobbying? Have you clearly thought through that a beat the shit out of everyone else approach is the best approach to get a favourable solution?

I'm a resident hunter, I'm proud to be one. I've worked hard for hunting and wildlife over the years. I've paid my dues and entitled to my opinion. Just because I'm not willing to get in the ring and throw a punch, doesn't make me wrong and doesn't mean you shouldn't be listening to others.

I've heard the banter/information from both sides, my background is in mediation and in my opinion I'm not sure your approach leaves much room for favourable negotiation. And that, impacts me. You obviously have a choice. Include others, listen to the quiet people who are paying attention and who might give you some interesting perspectives or ignore your signature line and continue to blaze on.

[Bugle M In]

just never , ever compare Bill Bennet to Roosevelt!!!!!!
Not even remotely close!!!
JT, you lost my total respect for any of your post with that line.

Bill Bennet's legacy is will be this....NOTHIING!!!
Not anything good at all....
If anything, his legacy will be the twiiter he left all of us to see....
"That we don't matter...he doesn't need us anymore"!!!!!!!
What does that tell you and the rest of us ????....you might ask??!
That he never ever had the heart to do right for the public.....only special interest groups that kept him elected for a big fat old pension.
Let's face,...most politicians are just failed private entrepreneurs...
They are just salesman...and we the public gave them the authority to sign on the dotted line...
problem for us is...we really have no choice of which poison to swallow..
The Pill Box (politicians running for election) is full of these poisonous pills...
Bennet...doesn't give a rats a** about us....he is in it for himself..always has, and always will be.
I say to Bennet..." you never accomplished any sort of legacy!!!"...certainly not anything positive!

[toad]

I sent a letter to him weeks ago, well before christmas and never got a response

[GoatGuy]

I sent a letter to him weeks ago, well before christmas and never got a response

You should soon - you should be thankful that black bears are still GOS in Region 4.

[f350ps]

just never , ever compare Bill Bennet to Roosevelt!!!!!!
Not even remotely close!!!
JT, you lost my total respect for any of your post with that line.

Bill Bennet's legacy is will be this....NOTHIING!!!
Not anything good at all....
If anything, his legacy will be the twiiter he left all of us to see....
"That we don't matter...he doesn't need us anymore"!!!!!!!
What does that tell you and the rest of us ????....you might ask??!
That he never ever had the heart to do right for the public.....only special interest groups that kept him elected for a big fat old pension.
Let's face,...most politicians are just failed private entrepreneurs...
They are just salesman...and we the public gave them the authority to sign on the dotted line...
problem for us is...we really have no choice of which poison to swallow..
The Pill Box (politicians running for election) is full of these poisonous pills...
Bennet...doesn't give a rats a** about us....he is in it for himself..always has, and always will be.
I say to Bennet..." you never accomplished any sort of legacy!!!"...certainly not anything positive!
Well said and I agree with everything except the reference to J_T. K

[Piperdown]

Didn't JT dish on crossbows a few years ago, saying it wasn't true archery.

[Wild one]

Didn't JT dish on crossbows a few years ago, saying it wasn't true archery.

Go back in this thread and read what I posted to Ride Red

STOP in fighting not doing any of us any good

[Wentrot]

Didn't JT dish on crossbows a few years ago, saying it wasn't true archery.

I don't own a bow and even I know its not true archery!


Sorry, I had to.....back to the topic at hand

[Ride Red]

Go back in this thread and read what I posted to Ride Red

STOP in fighting not doing any of us any good

We are all entitled to our opinions, not our problem when a few of you can't handle them.

[Bugle M In]

Yes, back to the topic at hand....