Skeena Region Guide Convicted

[40incher]

It seems the hunting guides don't need the allocation policy Liberal butt-kiss of a 40 % minimum on grizzly to do their dirty work ... they just kill whatever they want wherever they want ... who needs rules when only one side abides??? Kill something in one area and say different on your guide return ... sound familiar boys??

A Babine Lake guide was just convicted, and fined $20,425.00 for guiding an illegal grizzly kill outside of his "management area"!? At the end of the day the guides think they are beyond rules! The rules are just for us poor old tax-paying resident hunters it seems.

Perhaps others on this site can find out more of the details ... has his guiding right been revoked by the powers that be?? Doesn't appear so from what I have seen . Check out the Interior News website for the January 14th edition (page 4).

If he was a GOABC member in good standing ... is he still so?? If so, why??

C'mon now Boys.

[325 wsm]

1 guide not all guides . Like saying all BC resident hunters poach sheep in the Yukon .Give your head a shake.

[bridger]

Usual procedure in cases like this is for the regional manager to hold a section 61 hearing. Regional manager decides punishment. Could be loss of quota, etc extreme cases loss of area.

[40incher]

1 guide not all guides . Like saying all BC resident hunters poach sheep in the Yukon .Give your head a shake.


I'll give my head a big shake when the guide in question shuts the "F" up on the Liberal allocation agreement on this site!

Why are you defending him 325 .. perhaps you are another GOABC apologist? Please let us know why you would defend a "convicted" poaching/criminal guide who steals from the public resource???

It's time all the guide apologists stepped aside ... are you one???

[325 wsm]

I wasnt defending him I was commenting on your poorly written write up. You said guides and they. You should change your name to 4 incher.

[boilerroom]

40incher, I've been following this pretty closely and am definitely no ally of GOABC, but one guide doesn't represent all of the guides when he does something illegal. If a guide came out and mentioned an RH being convicted of poaching and said as you, I'm sure it would illicit the same response from an RH.

That being said, I'm sure interested in a public reaction from Mr. Ellis on what GOABC intends to do about in regards to this particular guide. I'm sure he's cringing at the timing given what's going down on the allocation front.

respectfully,
BR

[spear]

He's not defending the guide in question. Read the post. One man of bad characters does not stand for all of them. 325 is right. Give your head a shake.
There's no question we are at war with GOABC, but some guys seem to have lost their grip.

[Ambush]

What's the convicted man's name and outfit? It's public anyway.

[Big Lew]

40incher, I've been following this pretty closely and am definitely no ally of GOABC, but one guide doesn't represent all of the guides when he does something illegal. If a guide came out and mentioned an RH being convicted of poaching and said as you, I'm sure it would illicit the same response from an RH.

That being said, I'm sure interested in a public reaction from Mr. Ellis on what GOABC intends to do about in regards to this particular guide. I'm sure he's cringing at the timing given what's going down on the allocation front.

respectfully,
BR

These are mature, sensible, and proper remarks. Good for you BR.

[bearvalley]

I'll give my head a big shake when the guide in question shuts the "F" up on the Liberal allocation agreement on this site!

Are you sure he's on this site?

[boilerroom]

Guide seems to be from Granisle Hunting - Stewart Berg

[SPEYMAN]

I am not defending the GOABC. RH are not at war with them. They didn't change the regulations. Your bitch is with the politicians that did. Focus on them, they can make it so.

[Caribou_lou]

Stuart Berg. Owns and operates Double Illegal Guides and Outfitters. Whoops my bad! It's Double Eagle Guides and Outfitters.

Only a $20,000 fine... Has to pay it off in 2 years. Hardly a slap on the wrist.

It states in the article he was warned many times not to hunt the area.

[Steve W]

If we were to follow the thinking in the original post, any one who was a member of HBC who shot a moose outside his LEH area would be a poacher and thus all members of HBC would be poachers and should be dealt with as such.

[bearvalley]

If we were to follow the thinking in the original post, any one who was a member of HBC who shot a moose outside his LEH area would be a poacher and thus all members of HBC would be poachers and should be dealt with as such.

Do you think that ever happens? Good comment Steve W as you've spent many years dealing with similar issues.

[Caribou_lou]

If we were to follow the thinking in the original post, any one who was a member of HBC who shot a moose outside his LEH area would be a poacher and thus all members of HBC would be poachers and should be dealt with as such.

This makes absolutely zero sense. If you shoot a moose outside your drawn LEH zone you ARE breaking the law. Which in my eyes makes you a poacher.

[Caribou_lou]

Do you think that ever happens? Good comment Steve W as you've spent many years dealing with similar issues.

Sounds like more of a confession to me.

[bearvalley]

Sounds like more of a confession to me.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure with Steve's past career that he's ran into the odd resident hunter that's killed game outside the LEH boundaries that were to be hunted.

[Caribou_lou]

If he was a GOABC member in good standing ... is he still so?? If so, why??

Plenty of criticism at the OP's post and choice of words. How about we start answering the questions he has put forward. Starting with this one. Or are we going to continue to dance around it?

[Steve W]

I would say he is in contravention of Section 7 of their Code of Ethics and Standards should the conviction stand. Too much at stake not to appeal it.

I don't know what happens when you breach the GOABC Code of Ethics and Standards, but generally when an organization has such a document there is some sort of review process when it is breached by a member.

[Caribou_lou]

comparing his sentence to a local hunter that was also charged for shooting an Adult Grizzly. It seems very minor. They Local Hunter was Fined, had his Sako rifle confiscated, and cannot Hunt for 2 years. Cant even accompany his kids hunting for 1Year.

[Steve W]

Each case is different. It depends on what the charge the person actually was convicted off. Some violations also carry automatic suspensions and others have to be administratively imposed or come from the courts via something like a probation order. The courts strive for equal penalties for similar offenses. The local guy who shot the bear may not have been able to pay a high dollar figure fine so he was imposed a different fine that included the loss of his firearm. It's basically all guess work unless you sat through both trials and know the details of each case.

[dryflyguy57]

Each case is different. It depends on what the charge the person actually was convicted off. Some violations also carry automatic suspensions and others have to be administratively imposed or come from the courts via something like a probation order. The courts strive for equal penalties for similar offenses. The local guy who shot the bear may not have been able to pay a high dollar figure fine so he was imposed a different fine that included the loss of his firearm. It's basically all guess work unless you sat through both trials and know the details of each case.
The bear is dead in both cases . Not sure they do a credit check before imposing fines .

[Steve W]

That's what defense lawyers are for. They plead the accused's case and then when they lose they work getting the best deal for their client. Courts won't usually impose a penalty the accused can't pay.

[180grainer]

Plenty of criticism at the OP's post and choice of words. How about we start answering the questions he has put forward. Starting with this one. Or are we going to continue to dance around it?
That's a good point. How does the GOABC police itself? If they are an organization who truly believe in behaving within the law, this guy should be punted from their membership. So I wonder if he was. If they don't police themselves in a respectable fashion then maybe they condone such behavior or at least tolerate it when amongst themselves.....I don't know......seems like another sticking point to put to your MLA.

[40incher]

Guess I have to bump my initial question up ...

Is the so-called (actually convicted) poaching/illegal Babine Lake "guide" in question still sanctioned by the GOABC as a credible outfitter in our proud province of British Columbia, Canada ?????

It's a yes or a no question ...

C'mon now GOABC ... fess up.

[Huevos]

Is he even a member of goabc? I couldn't see any goabc reference on his website. Not all guides are members, in fact there are a lot that aren't. If this were the case, I guess goabc would have no jurisdiction. That being said, i don't know the circumstance of the case, but I do feel that guides should be held to a higher standard than the average joe when it comes to hunting laws and ethics.

[Fisher-Dude]

Guess I have to bump my initial question up ...

Is the so-called (actually convicted) poaching/illegal Babine Lake "guide" in question still sanctioned by the GOABC as a credible outfitter in our proud province of British Columbia, Canada ?????

It's a yes or a no question ...

C'mon now GOABC ... fess up.


He's listed on the GOABC website.

http://www.goabc.org/outfitters/19/double-eagle-guides-and-outfitters.aspx

"Enjoy a true fair chase hunting experience with Double Eagle Guides and Outfitters"

Is it fair chase to go out of bounds of the legal hunt area?

[Huevos]

In that case it should be interesting to see if goabc does anything.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Is the outfitter a GOABC member?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

He's listed on the GOABC website.

http://www.goabc.org/outfitters/19/double-eagle-guides-and-outfitters.aspx

"Enjoy a true fair chase hunting experience with Double Eagle Guides and Outfitters"

Is it fair chase to go out of bounds of the legal hunt area?

GOABC will be looking at this and one other case as I will be bringing it up at the next meeting for sure. I strongly believe in keeping people honest.

[decker9]

Anyone who knows this outfitter very well or has worked for him, has dirt on him, boundaries were a BIG grey area. I worked with him for 1 season years ago, only a season, for a good reason. I hunted goats in his area last fall, went passed one of his spike camps above timberline, looked more like a garbage dump, ripped up sleep foam, mountain house packages and ripped up tarps laying around, empty cooker fuel cans, plastic plates and cups, rope and bailer twine laying all over. (We cleaned it up and took as much out as we could, packs were full of goat)

Bottom line, "a lot" of outfitters have dirt, "all" outfitters should get regular visits from the CO, just like a road block on the hwy, checking camps, meat sheds, books and licences and records. If this whole thing goes threw with giving the outfitters more quota, they better add an army of co's to!

[325 wsm]

Sounds like a bad apple. They should at least give his quota to the residents for a couple of years(on top of the fine). That would be a real kick in the nuts to him.

[decker9]

Think he got a good kick a couple years ago, when his guides got drunk and beat the crap out of the hunter and booking agent.... no more hunters from that agent I bet

[nelsonob1]

The issue is about poaching not allocation policy. We need to remain focused and reasonable. Allocation Policy is the problem not guides who poach.

[303savage]

Only a $20,000 fine... Has to pay it off in 2 years. Hardly a slap on the wrist.

It states in the article he was warned many times not to hunt the area.

How many times was he warned not to hunt the area, I think 2 warning should be enough. Time #3 he should lose his licence for a few years or maybe lose it forever.

[Caribou_lou]

The issue is about poaching not allocation policy. We need to remain focused and reasonable. Allocation Policy is the problem not guides who poach.

The issue is a Guide Outfitter poaching. At this point in the game, I see this as more ammo that we can use in the Allocation Fight. This Guy poaches a Grizz and is awarded with more Grizz tags? Like Decker9 has pointed out, he's a dirt bag. I've heard numerous rumours about this guy. Now Ill start believing them.

[gerrygoat]

I haven't been able to find the link what exactly did the guy do?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The outfitter gets $13500 for guiding the grizzly bear so essentially his fine is only $7k.....unless the Hunter received a complete refund?

[luckofthedraw]

The outfitter gets $13500 for guiding the grizzly bear so essentially his fine is only $7k.....unless the Hunter received a complete refund?

That's ridiculous.

[Steve W]

I haven't been able to find the link what exactly did the guy do?

Here's a link. Short on details though:

http://cfbv.moosefm.com/news/hunting-guide-fined-for-illegal-kill-of-grizzly/

[gerrygoat]

Thanks Steve

[EvanG]

Should start a guide outfitter wall of shame