Jim Shockey's area?

[Alfonz]

May have an opportunity to hunt Shockey's area in the Yukon for moose are caribou or whatever else. He always say's "see you on the mountain" I wonder what he's going to say when he see's us? We too can fly in argo's if we buck up for the sky van. No Guff!
Any thoughts?

[Ry151]

Sounds fun.

[Gateholio]

Probably been lots of moose shot there in the last few years.

[1899]

Has Jim weighed in on the allocation stuff yet?

[The Hermit]

I love watching his Yukon shows because of the incredible scenery... I'm truly jealous and would love to do a hunt up there! No guff it would be far out man!

[zippermouth]

May have an opportunity to hunt Shockey's area in the Yukon for moose are caribou or whatever else. He always say's "see you on the mountain" I wonder what he's going to say when he see's us? We too can fly in argo's if we buck up for the sky van. No Guff!
Any thoughts?

with the size of his area im sure you will never see him. have fun and good luck.

[1899]

Something to think about:

...


I feel your pain. Here in the Yukon, the government recently allowed an area that has been residents only for the last 12 years to be put back into outfitting use. The new outfitter promptly hammered the area for Sheep (North Curl outfitters) and this will impact resident opportunities in this area. The outfitter is currently under no quota for Sheep in his area. In fact, currently here in the Yukon no outfitter is under any quota for Sheep, and guys like Jim Shockey take very Moose they can, which has affected Moose populations in areas accessible to residents. Another situation we have faced here is outfitters working with air services to keep resident hunters out of "their" areas. I have talked to hunters who were flatly refused by air services to fly them in to lakes the outfitter had camps on.
Yet I bring these sorts of things up with other residents, and no one seems to get to worked up about it. Voting as a block, you think that we hunters could show e politicians who they are supposed to be working for.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Something to think about:

Interestingly, Outdoor Quest hunted with North Curl Outfitters and part I just aired this week. Part 2 is on next week.
Not your typical looking sheep country. Looks pretty easy to get around in.

SSS

[Alfonz]

with the size of his area im sure you will never see him. have fun and good luck.

Might end up getting noticed as some of the strip where the shorts can fly into are right by his main camps. I think there probably is better areas to hunt but it would be good to show up and let him see some Canadian hunters. Hell I'll even bring some squincher and my primos shooting sticks! The airplane ride should be easily negotiated as the guy with the sky van in in business for business! Next stop swan lake!

[325 wsm]

Some good genetics for moose there. If you want a big one do some research and go to a place he hasnt hunted for a couple years. he probably still has cabins at Misty, Arrowhead, Einerson, West, Penape, M+M, Pleasant and Little Kalzas just to name a few. Heres a Booner from M+M lakes circa @1997

good luck
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/mountaindog68/1st044_zpsb8e1cd30.png (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/mountaindog68/media/1st044_zpsb8e1cd30.png.html)

[Vladimir Poutine]

May have an opportunity to hunt Shockey's area in the Yukon for moose are caribou or whatever else. He always say's "see you on the mountain" I wonder what he's going to say when he see's us? We too can fly in argo's if we buck up for the sky van. No Guff!
Any thoughts?

Are you a resident? Don't you have to be with a licensed outfitter or someone with a resident guide license unless you are a resident?

[Whonnock Boy]

I asked for his thoughts on the policy via facebook. Have not had a response. I'm sure it was seen.


Has Jim weighed in on the allocation stuff yet?

[1899]

Are you a resident? Don't you have to be with a licensed outfitter or someone with a resident guide license unless you are a resident?

They have a permit to accompany as well. A resident can do this once every three years. I believe the exceptions are grizzly and sheep.

[TARCHER]

That is a beautiful bull

[bighornbob]

Its the Yukon and there are tons of big moose everywhere. If it was me I would definitely avoid an area that has an outfitter pounding it every year.

BHB

[Husky7mm]

[feel your pain. Here in the Yukon, the government recently allowed an area that has been residents only for the last 12 years to be put back into outfitting use. The new outfitter promptly hammered the area for Sheep (North Curl outfitters) and this will impact resident opportunities in this area. The outfitter is currently under no quota for Sheep in his area. In fact, currently here in the Yukon no outfitter is under any quota for Sheep, and guys like Jim Shockey take very Moose they can, which has affected Moose populations in areas accessible to residents. Another situation we have faced here is outfitters working with air services to keep resident hunters out of "their" areas. I have talked to hunters who were flatly refused by air services to fly them in to lakes the outfitter had camps on.
Yet I bring these sorts of things up with other residents, and no one seems to get to worked up about it. Voting as a block, you think that we hunters could show e politicians who they are supposed to be working for.]


I have a hard time believing this complaint. Is there not more moose in the Yukon than people ? I see them passing on lots of smaller large Bulls in there videos also.? Not a very large population of people in the Yukon compaired to its size.

[Ride Red]

Some good genetics for moose there. If you want a big one do some research and go to a place he hasnt hunted for a couple years. he probably still has cabins at Misty, Arrowhead, Einerson, West, Penape, M+M, Pleasant and Little Kalzas just to name a few. Heres a Booner from M+M lakes circa @1997

good luck
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/mountaindog68/1st044_zpsb8e1cd30.png (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/mountaindog68/media/1st044_zpsb8e1cd30.png.html)

Wow, what a beauty, now I'm sport'in a booner.;)

[Tanya]

feel your pain. Here in the Yukon, the government recently allowed an area that has been residents only for the last 12 years to be put back into outfitting use. The new outfitter promptly hammered the area for Sheep (North Curl outfitters) and this will impact resident opportunities in this area. The outfitter is currently under no quota for Sheep in his area. In fact, currently here in the Yukon no outfitter is under any quota for Sheep, and guys like Jim Shockey take very Moose they can, which has affected Moose populations in areas accessible to residents. Another situation we have faced here is outfitters working with air services to keep resident hunters out of "their" areas. I have talked to hunters who were flatly refused by air services to fly them in to lakes the outfitter had camps on.
Yet I bring these sorts of things up with other residents, and no one seems to get to worked up about it. Voting as a block, you think that we hunters could show e politicians who they are supposed to be working for.


I have a hard time believing this complaint. Is there not more moose in the Yukon than people ? I see them passing on lots of smaller large Bulls in there videos also.? Not a very large population of people in the Yukon compaired to its size.




Where did this information come from? Just a thought....40 -50 trips for a company's aircraft with an outfitter or a handful with residents. Where is the bread buttered?

[M.Dean]

If I was going to spend money on a fly in hunting trip, it sure wouldn't be where there's a outfitter, all his guides and his clients hunting the same animals I was.

[1899]

Where did this information come from? Just a thought....40 -50 trips for a company's aircraft with an outfitter or a handful with residents. Where is the bread buttered?

Ask Husky7mm.

[Deadshot]

Who's flying the "sky van"? Must be a private outfit, as most, if not all commercial guys won't fly you into a lake without the outfitters permission.
Bread Buttered!
I think this'll become more common in northern BC, unless quota gets slashed and the outfitters have to become more resident friendly to make a buck.

May have an opportunity to hunt Shockey's area in the Yukon for moose are caribou or whatever else. He always say's "see you on the mountain" I wonder what he's going to say when he see's us? We too can fly in argo's if we buck up for the sky van. No Guff!
Any thoughts?

[Alfonz]

Nomad air in Whitehorse has a Sky Van. I don't think they care about who they fly. They like revenue, and I think they have not done a bunch of business with Rogue River after the initial argo drop as seen on the professionals.

[Tanya]

feel your pain. Here in the Yukon, the government recently allowed an area that has been residents only for the last 12 years to be put back into outfitting use. The new outfitter promptly hammered the area for Sheep (North Curl outfitters) and this will impact resident opportunities in this area. The outfitter is currently under no quota for Sheep in his area. In fact, currently here in the Yukon no outfitter is under any quota for Sheep, and guys like Jim Shockey take very Moose they can, which has affected Moose populations in areas accessible to residents. Another situation we have faced here is outfitters working with air services to keep resident hunters out of "their" areas. I have talked to hunters who were flatly refused by air services to fly them in to lakes the outfitter had camps on.
Yet I bring these sorts of things up with other residents, and no one seems to get to worked up about it. Voting as a block, you think that we hunters could show e politicians who they are supposed to be working for.


I have a hard time believing this complaint. Is there not more moose in the Yukon than people ? I see them passing on lots of smaller large Bulls in there videos also.? Not a very large population of people in the Yukon compaired to its size.




All animals are under strict quotas that get evaluated every 3 years by wildlife biologists, First Nations representatives, outfitters, etc. Get facts straight before posting.
For non-residents of the Yukon: Information for Non-Resident hunters (http://www.env.gov.yk.ca/hunting-fishing-trapping/informationnonresidents.php)

[325 wsm]

Great post Tanya. Amazing what some people will post or copy and paste when they really dont understand.

[Alfonz]

I had a look thru the link that was posted did find some quota information, but nothing regarding sheep or moose quotas as Husky7mm had reported. It seems like grizzly bears are on quota.
Tanya, can you provide some insight on this?

[1899]

Actually, it wasn't husky7mm but Buck that posted that from a Yukon resident. And all animals are on a "strict quota" for guides here too, and that seems to have worked out really well for residents too, right?

[bruin]

Sheep are not on quota in the Yukon in the majority of the areas. Outfitters are allowed to set their own harvest number and areas are monitored for herd health. The "resident only area" that was referred to was actually an outfitting area that was not being utilized by the owner and recently sold. Last year was the new owner's first year of operation. It doesn't matter where you go to hunt, the best hunting on average is where there is no competition. You can find those places inside and outside outfitting areas. Good luck!

[Tanya]

Alfonz; All animals are under strict quotas that get evaluated every 3 years by wildlife biologists, First Nations representatives, outfitters, etc. This is a direct quote from our Vice President - Sales and Business Development. I work for Shockey, and got clarification when I saw the thread. As for non-resident non-alien hunters like you or me, the link provided gives that information. Nothing to stop you or I going into a guiding territory here in B.C. to hunt either. However, in my experience if an outfit is set up in an area, it is likely fairly well combed over.

[Husky7mm]

Where did this information come from? Just a thought....40 -50 trips for a company's aircraft with an outfitter or a handful with residents. Where is the bread buttered?

sorry my post is just at the very bottom, I cut and pasted the top portion that was posted earlier in the thread originally from buck. I think it is a Yukon residents complaint and I didn't understand it. It seems when you quote a quote with an iPhone things go missing. Peace not my view I don't know anything about the Yukon.

[big game chaser]

Most if not all areas someone has the guiding rights !

[kyleklassen]

did this whole thing just happen?

[Ferenc]

That Sky van...sure looks like a party wagon !

[Alfonz]

It can haul some goodies to base camp for sure! The trick is to get it (the sky van) out in the communities doing other work then try and work with other groups to cut down costs. If you think about it from a non resident perspective paying a few thousand or so to fly your argo and a nice camp is no big deal.
Probably will not do something of this caliber very often but it would be fun to go on one.

[leadpillproductions]

Should be able to get a big ol bull. But I'd agree with others try and find areas that shockey isn't would be best

[medved]

there is maybe less chance to see argos in the bush soon ...

[325 wsm]

Hope your right.

[Alfonz]

325 WSM what are your thoughts on little Kalzas or moose lake? Looking for something fairly close to shuttle moose chunks to a vehicle.

[leadpillproductions]

Sign me up for a trip

[Alfonz]

You can't double book!

[325 wsm]

He has a cabin on Little Kalzas, I would go to Big Kalzas. Take fishing gear for big trout at either. Both lakes can get quite rough, watch for storm cells. Big forest fire went through the area about 15 years ago….great moose habitat. Not sure what you are calling moose lake.

[medved]

Hope your right.

new ORVs rules coming soon and hope the GO will be afftected too.

[medved]

325 WSM what are your thoughts on little Kalzas or moose lake? Looking for something fairly close to shuttle moose chunks to a vehicle.


it s a long ride from a road ...

[medved]

He has a cabin on Little Kalzas, I would go to Big Kalzas. Take fishing gear for big trout at either. Both lakes can get quite rough, watch for storm cells. Big forest fire went through the area about 15 years ago….great moose habitat. Not sure what you are calling moose lake.

Earn lake was a good spot but not on Shockeys area.

[Alfonz]

He has a cabin on Little Kalzas, I would go to Big Kalzas. Take fishing gear for big trout at either. Both lakes can get quite rough, watch for storm cells. Big forest fire went through the area about 15 years ago….great moose habitat. Not sure what you are calling moose lake.

Moose lake on my map is just to east of Big Kalzas. Interesting about little Kalzas I did not think he had a cabin there. Some friends of mine hunted it last year and did not report seeing anyone.

[Alfonz]

it s a long ride from a road ...

But a short flight!:biggrin:

[medved]

But a short flight!:biggrin:

which airline operator was flying them there?

there is a lot chance you do not see an outfitter in all their places ... but sometimes it happens.

[Eastbranch]

Last two WR bulls came from the same postal code and it wasn't anywhere near Jim's area. Just saying. Don't understand why anyone would deliberately hunt in a 'famous' area just to razz an outfitter, especially at the cost of a skywagon. Boat gas is cheaper!

[medved]

Arcticred,

the last WRs,
the P&Y was taken at Earn Lake with Mcmillan river outfitter.

The B&C was taken on the Yukon River near Stewart Island by a local hunter.

definetly not in the same area ....

[Yukon280]

All animals are under strict quotas that get evaluated every 3 years by wildlife biologists, First Nations representatives, outfitters, etc. Get facts straight before posting.
For non-residents of the Yukon: Information for Non-Resident hunters (http://www.env.gov.yk.ca/hunting-fishing-trapping/informationnonresidents.php)
Tanya, get YOUR facts straight. That was my original post and every word of it is FACT. But seeing as you work for Shockey, I guess we can forgive your ignorance. No Sheep quotas on outfitters. Period. Where in the post did it say anything about quotas on other species? Nowhere, right? So here's the challenge, please let us residents know what his Moose quota is, and how many he takes. The department won't tell us, as its "privileged" info. :mad:
And 325, what don't I really understand? Elaborate please.
Alfonz, dude, get in there.

[Alfonz]

It's public property, it should be public info. If the harvest levels are within reason what is the reason for secrecy? I would hope the Renewable resource councils would have this info, they are they ones that are suppose to make recommendation to the Yukon fish & wildlife management board.

[tangozulu]

Might end up getting noticed as some of the strip where the shorts can fly into are right by his main camps. I think there probably is better areas to hunt but it would be good to show up and let him see some Canadian hunters. Hell I'll even bring some squincher and my primos shooting sticks! The airplane ride should be easily negotiated as the guy with the sky van in in business for business! Next stop swan lake!

You can take in your own Argo or maybe a toyota 4x4 would be better.

[tangozulu]

Ask Husky7mm.

Except outfotters put a cabin on every available lake.

[Alfonz]

The trails are already all set up for argos. So my argo on their argo trails would leave less impact. I do not want to get Toya (trails only Yukon association)on my case.

[tangozulu]

Who's flying the "sky van"? Must be a private outfit, as most, if not all commercial guys won't fly you into a lake without the outfitters permission.
Bread Buttered!
I think this'll become more common in northern BC, unless quota gets slashed and the outfitters have to become more resident friendly to make a buck.

Most of these strips were built by miners and were never intended to be a personal outfitter strip. Outfitters just have that this is all mine attitude.

[tangozulu]

Great post Tanya. Amazing what some people will post or copy and paste when they really dont understand.

No one represents resident hunters on the wildlife management board. Why do outfitters, most of whom do not live here, have a seat.

[Alfonz]

After being to a YFWMB meeting I would have to agree that the resident's voice is not represented fairly. This board is making decisions that affect licensed resident and non resident hunters and at least half of the board were F.N. The decisions they make would not affect the parties that they represent as they are covered by a final agreement.
It seems odd to me?

[Jim Prawn]

Not that I've ever met Shockey but it seems to me it would be in his own best interest to responsibly manage the game populations in his area(s). Same for any outfitter who plans on being successful from one season to the next. And I would hazard a guess that Shockey has been one of the most successful outfitters ever (business wise). As for them being confrontational about residents showing up in "their" areas, well if that's the case, they can stick that where the sun don't shine... Maybe its just me but I think the OP was just stirring the pot... Good job! And I'd also like to note, we just had moose roast for dinner from the immature bull I shot in the Kootenays last year. I have a hard time believing that wasn't about 1000x better than one of those giant old bulls!
JP

[Rubicon500]

new ORVs rules coming soon and hope the GO will be afftected too.

If Yukon is anything like BC , they will give the outfitters a grand father clause and let them continue using them. Baffles me how a outfitter can drive a client into a road restricted area to get to camp yet we have to walk or pedal

[Stone Sheep Steve]

If Yukon is anything like BC , they will give the outfitters a grand father clause and let them continue using them. Baffles me how a outfitter can drive a client into a road restricted area to get to camp yet we have to walk or pedal

or use a Jetboat on the tat when residents cannot.
No advantage there.

[medved]

After being to a YFWMB meeting I would have to agree that the resident's voice is not represented fairly. This board is making decisions that affect licensed resident and non resident hunters and at least half of the board were F.N. The decisions they make would not affect the parties that they represent as they are covered by a final agreement.
It seems odd to me?

well YFGA got a member seating there so the problem is maybe YFGA not representing the local hunters .... i ve been a board director and i quitted because of that up to the time we get someting that is taking care first of the residents then it will remain the same.

the outfitter have a representant there too ... how strange it is ...

[srupp]

Hmm hunted BC lots of the little multi named lake fly ins..some even landing and hunting rivers..imo the Yukon holds bigger racked moose..but I agree guides areas are well scouted and harvested..
2 dream animals ..60 inch bull moose..big old dall sheep both of which are Yukon gold.
People talk..I do not know if Jims Vancouver island black bear areas or his Rogue river areas are hit hard or exessive..he has worked damn hard for many years..I would rather hunt in solitude in secluded locations where a big ol bull or twister ram has lived a long old life to grow imense head ware.
Better plans than loading up a sky station wagon just to hunt Shockeys area..there are vast areas that must hold great hunting in the Yukon..no need to elbow in..
I like Shockey and his flare for hunting..no guff stuff..but others in the Yukon that produce consistent trophies also.
Steven

[M.Dean]

Why would a guy go out of his way to fly into a area he knows is someones guiding area??? I guess just so's he can have a run in with the owner then come on here and tell everyone what a asshole the owner was! The way I see this, it would take a real asshole to go out of his way to fly into Shockey's guiding area just to be a prick! I found out it makes life way more enjoyable when you go out of your way to help people, not to piss them off! But Hey, that's just me!

[Viper]

Why would a guy go out of his way to fly into a area he knows is someones guiding area??? I guess just so's he can have a run in with the owner then come on here and tell everyone what a asshole the owner was! The way I see this, it would take a real asshole to go out of his way to fly into Shockey's guiding area just to be a prick! I found out it makes life way more enjoyable when you go out of your way to help people, not to piss them off! But Hey, that's just me!
Well said.

[leadpillproductions]

So you never hunt in side a outfitters territory? Whats the difference from driving into a area or flying into a area
Why would a guy go out of his way to fly into a area he knows is someones guiding area??? I guess just so's he can have a run in with the owner then come on here and tell everyone what a asshole the owner was! The way I see this, it would take a real asshole to go out of his way to fly into Shockey's guiding area just to be a prick! I found out it makes life way more enjoyable when you go out of your way to help people, not to piss them off! But Hey, that's just me!

[M.Dean]

So you never hunt in side a outfitters territory? Whats the difference from driving into a area or flying into a area If a person owns a guiding area with roads going all over the place, I would think he expects to see resident hunters dam near every day. But, with all the places a guy can go to for a fly in hunt, why would you go out of your way to screw up someone elses fly in hunting trip that they paid god dam good money to outfitter for? I'd expect some asshole from green peace or a anti hunting group to do a ignorant thing like this! Would you call your self a "Hunter" after screwing up someones life long dream hunt??? I know what I'd call you! But wouldn't it be something if after you stomped all around the outfitters guiding area and F'ed up everyones hunts, if the weather turned real bad and "Your" ride back couldn't land for a good week! And all's you had to eat was crow and your ego!!! Ha!!!

[bridger]

Going into an outfitters camp just to screw up a hunt is one thing , but trying to avoid hunting where a guide hunts is really hard to do in especially in BC. Not many places you don't see an outfitters camp.

[358mag]

Why would a guy go out of his way to fly into a area he knows is someones guiding area??? I guess just so's he can have a run in with the owner then come on here and tell everyone what a asshole the owner was! The way I see this, it would take a real asshole to go out of his way to fly into Shockey's guiding area just to be a prick! I found out it makes life way more enjoyable when you go out of your way to help people, not to piss them off! But Hey, that's just me!
X3 but sometimes its just hard to fix stupid .

[medved]

well it is very interesting on a yukon perpective as all the territory is divided into GO units ... are you telling us we can`t go hunting ???

[srupp]

well it is very interesting on a yukon perpective as all the territory is divided into GO units ... are you telling us we can`t go hunting ???

Hmmm no you are absolutley allowed to go hunting...however the new rules stipulate that in order to avoid unreasonable conflict with said guide outfitters all Yukon resident hunters must be accompanied by an impartial non resident hunter from BC..hmmmmok I will go since your being so nice...
Cheers
Elmer

[leadpillproductions]

The original post was to go into shockey's area to hunt moose not to screw up hunts

[M.Dean]

well it is very interesting on a yukon perpective as all the territory is divided into GO units ... are you telling us we can`t go hunting ??? I think you may have misread my recent posts concerning the subject of going totally out of your way to fly into Jim Shockey's guiding area simply to "F" up his clients, and the guides hunt for that matter. Anyone that would do such a thing, to me anyways, seems like the type of person that would piss in a loggers skidder diesel tank just to be a Pric*! And no where in my posts have I said "Not" to hunt in a outfitters guiding area, but I did say it would take a real special kind of asshole to "Fly" into a guiding area with the intent to "F" up a hunt that some poor ******* paid dam good money for! But Hey, if that's what floats your boat, you go for it! Take lots of pic's and maybe post them on here, jeez, maybe you'll win a prize???

[medved]

M.Dean i do not give a rat about rogue river area ... im not the OP that started the thread but im a resident of Yukon and we have seen in the recent past some poachers within the GO industry.

as the GO are in all areas in Yukon that is mean i cant go there ... because a GO can claim he is there.

if im seeing any hunting party i will go somewhere but nodoby has the right to tell me so ...

[medved]

The original post was to go into shockey's area to hunt moose not to screw up hunts

yes exactly.

[medved]

Hmmm no you are absolutley allowed to go hunting...however the new rules stipulate that in order to avoid unreasonable conflict with said guide outfitters all Yukon resident hunters must be accompanied by an impartial non resident hunter from BC..hmmmmok I will go since your being so nice...
Cheers
Elmer


Elmer i like that one ....Phil

[The Yukon Kid]

There's Actually a couple of areas in the Yukon that don't have outfitters in them. I don't think there are to many conflicts between residents and outfitters up in the Yukon, and yes GO do make mistakes like an other person. For the most part I would think the outfitters are on the up and up.

[medved]

you are working in that industry so of course you do not see it the same way.

[The Yukon Kid]

Yes I do work in that industry and the people I know do things by the book, Thats not to say all GO do. But I do see it your way as I am a Yukon resident and when I hunt for myself, typically it will be in someones OC.That said there are areas that no outfitters are allowed to hunt in, that only residents are allowed, but you are right that a lot of the territory does have a GO's working in it.

[Garret]

medved, seems you have had a conflict or run in with an outfitter here in the Yukon....what's the story?

[medved]

medved, seems you have had a conflict or run in with an outfitter here in the Yukon....what's the story?

sorry late but i have no conflict directly ... my main problem is that today most of the airplane charters are not letting the locals to be flown where they want even if there is no outfitters on a lake. the outfitters are ruling where we can or not go ... hope you do not that in BC.

[bridger]

Had that problem in bc years back several formal complaints to the Fed's got that straightened out

[sheephunterab]

Just curious what the Feds were able to do.

[medved]

again some complaints this year but seems nobody is willing to push it, a status quo again.

[Garret]

Just curious what the Feds were able to do.

By feds I believe they mean transport Canada, you can't deny someone service because the outfitter said so. It goes against their operating certificate....the only way they can get around it is if they have a contract to fly for an outfitter then they are allowed to say no to flying into a lake. I have been denied access to lakes in the Yukon because of GO using their services, lets just say I wasn't too happy....

[sheephunterab]

I got that....I was just wondering if anyone had an instance where the feds had actually ever done anything about it.

[srupp]

Hmmm not in our instance..written complaints..nada..

Good luck
Srupp

[Alfonz]

The last thing I want is to run into outfitters and have a conflict, but there are areas that I would like to hunt that are within outfitters concessions. If I land and they are there I will move, if I'm there before them I would expect the same treatment. It seems reasonable. I have called the local flying services in the past and told them where I was going in hopes of saving other people that do not want to see other folks some time and money.

Alfonz