Foreign Owned Guide Outfitters of BC????

[emerson]

Anyone have access to a list? The lawyer tactics smack of big foreign money. Just curious what the facts are??

[Sofa King]

it doesn't take foreign "owners" $$.
there's plenty of foreign big $$$ hunters using the guides.

but it's not about tactics.
if people on here broke laws, they are the ones in the wrong here.
at some point people have to realize that some of this is their own faults, and not all the big bad guides.

[Steeleco]

if people on here broke laws, they are the ones in the wrong here.
at some point people have to realize that some of this is their own faults, and not all the big bad guides

So this has WHAT to do with the OP's question?

[Sofa King]

So this has WHAT to do with the OP's question?

the lawyer's tactics that he's talking about.
aren't they responding to things members on here said in threads?

[Sofa King]

as far as I know, no charges, court cases have gone forward. Seems funny you already know laws have been broken.. last time I checked you were innocent until proven guilty, not sure who is being the bully on this "file" but it appears some intimidation tactics for whatever reason may be at work. Glad to see we have a member of the judiciary on HBC!!

I'm thinking that the fact that marc had to delete threads, AND threaten to/ban members, to stop them from going any further, shows that there was some wrong things done.
or are you going to accuse marc of caving in to them?

[Steeleco]

the lawyer's tactics that he's talking about.
aren't they responding to things members on here said in threads?

That at this point is an "assumption" and only an assumption. Marc has not and needs not share with us the context of his message with us mods or admin. It's his site and his alone. For all I know the note he received may have been from a politician, they have been taking a beating of late too?

[Steeleco]

I'm thinking that the fact that marc had to delete threads, AND threaten to/ban members, to stop them from going any further, shows that there was some wrong things done.
or are you going to accuse marc of caving in to them?

Oh trust me, they still exist!! This is Cyberspace!!

[emerson]

So this has WHAT to do with the OP's question?

I am curious also.... I did interact with a couple of guides this fall. They were from Idaho. Why is it that foreign workers at Timmies are an issue, but not so much guides? Normally if a business cannot find anyone to work for what is offered they are required to pay enough to attract employees, not bring cheaper ones in from other countries. I'm not speaking of the owner's rep here, just the guides standing next to the foreign hunter.

[Sofa King]

That at this point is an "assumption" and only an assumption. Marc has not and needs not share with us the context of his message with us mods or admin. It's his site and his alone. For all I know the note he received may have been from a politician, they have been taking a beating of late too?

that was my first thought actually.
that it may have been about things people were saying about Christy clark.

[goatdancer]

it doesn't take foreign "owners" $$.
there's plenty of foreign big $$$ hunters using the guides.

but it's not about tactics.
if people on here broke laws, they are the ones in the wrong here.
at some point people have to realize that some of this is their own faults, and not all the big bad guides.

Quit blowing smoke out your ass. If you don't have an answer to the question it would be wise to leave it alone.

[Gateholio]

Sofa King

You know nothing.
You are jumping to wild conclusions
You don't know what you are talking about
Stop making assumptions about something you know nothing about
No, you will not get any more details
You know nothing. Cease and desist.

[Sofa King]

Oh trust me, they still exist!! This is Cyberspace!!

very true.
but clearly there must have been some wrong-doings, wasn't there?
deaddog is implying that nothing wrong was done because no charges were laid.
would he rather marc refused their request and hbc is shut down?

[emerson]

Hello Sofa, remember, accusation and conviction are very different. I'm honestly curious about the facts of GO ownership and the numbers of foreign guides, and being responded to in such a way by you makes me wonder if you have some other angle that I and other resident hunters are not aware of. Giving BC animals to businesses that then resell them for profit bothers me as a BC taxpayer and resident. If, in addition, the ownership and significant numbers of the employees are also foreign, sending the profits out of Canada, I feel the present government needs to change it's policy, or suffer. No, I strongly dislike the NDP, but getting screwed by someone else doesn't make it hurt less.

[Sofa King]

Quit blowing smoke out your ass. If you don't have an answer to the question it would be wise to leave it alone.

I definitely don't know anything of what is happening.
I was simply speculating.
that's all that can be done when we don't know anything.
what I'm saying is speculation just as much as everyone who is blaming lawyers and goabc, etc.
we don't know what it is.

a question though, if we aren't told what was done wrong, how do members know what NOT to say then?

[Rackmastr]

Sofa King

You know nothing.
You are jumping to wild conclusions
You don't know what you are talking about
Stop making assumptions about something you know nothing about
No, you will not get any more details
You know nothing. Cease and desist.

Thanks for saying it....seeing his username pop up is getting annoying as hell.

[Sofa King]

Hello Sofa, remember, accusation and conviction are very different. I'm honestly curious about the facts of GO ownership and the numbers of foreign guides, and being responded to in such a way by you makes me wonder if you have some other angle that I and other resident hunters are not aware of. Giving BC animals to businesses that then resell them for profit bothers me as a BC taxpayer and resident. If, in addition, the ownership and significant numbers of the employees are also foreign, sending the profits out of Canada, I feel the present government needs to change it's policy, or suffer. No, I strongly dislike the NDP, but getting screwed by someone else doesn't make it hurt less.

I'm not a guide.
I'm a resident hunter just like the majority on here.
and I'm in agreeance with everyone who's upset about the changes in the allocation.

I just don't see why people can't see this as everything else.
everything's about $$.
most the mines are foreign owned, yet they come in and take our resources away.
lng would be the same way I think.
and it appears that maybe this allocation is similar.
I don't see why so many are awed and shocked by this happening.
I don't like it either, but I'm certainly not surprised by it.

but, what realistically can be done about it?
that's the only real question.
sure we can vote accordingly come election time, but does that guarantee a change?
can the allocation decision actually be reversed?

[Wentrot]

At this point the only thing that will have any impact is taking it to the streets in protest.

[Gateholio]

I definitely don't know anything of what is happening.
I was simply speculating.
that's all that can be done when we don't know anything.
what I'm saying is speculation just as much as everyone who is blaming lawyers and goabc, etc.
we don't know what it is.

a question though, if we aren't told what was done wrong, how do members know what NOT to say then?


Stop speculating.

If you need guidance on how to post, read the rules.

Rapidly losing patience with you now.

[emerson]

Any answers to the original question? Or should I start another thread and leave this one to sofa?

[Gateholio]

Any answers to the original question? Or should I start another thread and leave this one to sofa?

Sofa won't be posting on this thread anymore if he wants to keep enjoying HBC.

[Liptugger]

as far as I know, no charges, court cases have gone forward. Seems funny you already know laws have been broken.. last time I checked you were innocent until proven guilty, not sure who is being the bully on this "file" but it appears some intimidation tactics for whatever reason may be at work. Glad to see we have a member of the judiciary on HBC!!


Like he said.

[goatdancer]

Does anyone have the answer to the original question? I think there would be quite a few people that would be interested in the answer.

[Whonnock Boy]

I do not have a definitive answer, but I recall a member on the fb hunting page going through the list, and he found only a few members of the GOABC that currently did not have contact info in B.C. I will see if I can find him.

[Moose Guide]

Anyone have access to a list? The lawyer tactics smack of big foreign money. Just curious what the facts are??

As far as I know, only a Canadian can own an area in B.C. Foreigners would need a Canadian citizen to be the registered owner to make it all legal!

[emerson]

I suppose the next question is how much info are corporations required to disclose about their ownership if it is foreign. Any sound GO company in BC will have a local contact who is an employee. Are we able to actually find out who owns these companies? Maybe some business/corporate types can chime in on this.

[emerson]

As far as I know, only a Canadian can own an area in B.C. Foreigners would need a Canadian citizen to be the registered owner to make it all legal!

It is my understanding that this was the case but changed within the last few years. Can anyone shed light on this?

[bowhunterbruce]

I, like a few others worked as a guide for a guy who owns an outfitting business here in BC, he has however covered all his ownership issues by having the company in his kids name. along story short, he originally had the company in the name of his kids fiancé's name as she was the daughter of one of his guides (who is currently doing time for murder, the last I heard). once the owners kid married her ,he applied for Canadian citizenship, after a couple kids later he was eventually granted his citizenship and the title was then transferred to the kid.
Rich daddy from the states still completely runs it and has full say in the outfit and his kid is the head guide that looks after it here in BC. everyone official knows it but Daddy covered his ass pretty good and the only way to take it away know would be to deport the kid and not allow his wife any entilement to it.
The kid is a decent guy but his Daddy is a typical rich American that has zero respect for anything but his own ass, he lies to his clients, treats his staff like they are meat, doesn't give a shit about conservation, hell he would even fly us around in his plane looking for sheep the day before a client was to arrive in his plane with a 2x4 helping support one of the planes strut.
That's not all, notes in meats bags dropped into camp while hunts were going on was an ongoing practice while we were out during the sheep hunts, I can't say what the notes read as they would be burned once read.
above all else he would look for reasons to bill us guides so he didn't have to pay the full agreed rates he promises just to get staff to work for him. Every female camp cook he ever had he tried to get into bed or try to get them to offer xtra services for the clients, the vehicles he has for running clients around are not safe to drive and regularly broke down miles away from camp.
All in all 80% of his money went right back to Montana with him, leaving only enough in his Canadian account to barely cover his immediate costs. as a professional accountant I'm sure he has covered all his bases.
you know his kid is never going to admit that
you know the kids wife is never going to admit that
you know the kids father-in-law will never admit it
and its damn sure that there is no way rich daddy is going to lose his cash cow by admitting any of it.

[Sleep Robber]

It is my understanding that this was the case but changed within the last few years. Can anyone shed light on this?

Not sure if this is relevant but Chinese just bought the {ghost} town of Bradian north of Whistler, along with a golf course in Sechelt and an Island on the BC coast.


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/02/bradian-bc-ghost-town-sold_n_6408218.html

[Whonnock Boy]

Go here http://www.goabc.org/outfitters/default.aspx#results and put 'BC' and 'any' in the search parameters to get a list. One contact is listed for South Dakota.

From the government website. http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/non_resident/#GuideAreas

This is a list from July 2010. http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/non_resident/docs/guide_outfitters.pdf

Finding actual ownership is quite another story.

[boxhitch]

BC Wildlife Act


Issue of guide outfitter licence

51 (1) A regional manager
(a) may issue a guide outfitter licence to a person if all of the following apply:
(i) the person is a citizen of Canada or a permanent resident of Canada;
(ii) the person has public liability insurance prescribed by regulation;
(iii) the person has other qualifications prescribed by regulation, and
(b) must issue a guide outfitter licence to a person if the person is a person to whom the regional manager is obliged under the Labour Mobility Act (http://www.huntingbc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/09020_01) to issue a guide outfitter licence.
(2) A guide outfitter licence authorizes the holder to guide persons to hunt only for those species of game and in the area described in the licence.
(3) If an area is part of a guiding territory assigned in a guiding territory certificate, the regional manager may not issue a guide outfitter licence under subsection (1) authorizing a person to guide in the area unless the person provides proof, satisfactory to the regional manager, that the person has the consent of the holder of the guiding territory certificate.

[boxhitch]

Guiding territory certificate

59 (1) A regional manager may issue a guiding territory certificate to a person who, or to a group of persons each of whom,
(a) is a citizen of Canada or a permanent resident of Canada,
(b) is 19 years of age or older, and
(c) has other qualifications prescribed by regulation.
(2) The director may specify the form of and conditions contained in a guiding territory certificate.
(3) Subject to a permit issued under section 70 (1) (b), a guiding territory certificate grants to the holder the exclusive control over guiding privileges in the area described in the certificate for the period stated in the certificate, which may not exceed 25 years.
(4) The issuance of a guiding territory certificate to more than one person creates a tenancy in common in the rights granted by the certificate.
(5) If a guiding territory certificate is issued to more than one person, the guiding territory certificate must
(a) identify a person as the agent of the holders of the certificate, and
(b) specify the interest held in the certificate by each holder of the certificate.
(6) A regional manager may rely on information provided in an application or submission made by the agent identified in the guiding territory certificate as if that information were provided or that application or submission were made by all the holders of the certificate.
(7) A regional manager may, on application by the holder of the guiding territory certificate, issue a new guiding territory certificate for a period not exceeding 25 years if
(a) more than 5 years have elapsed since the date of issue of a guiding territory certificate issued before this subsection comes into force, or
(b) more than 3/5 of the period of a guiding territory certificate issued after this subsection comes into force has elapsed........................... I thought it was opened up to foreign and also corporations

http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/00_96488_01

[emerson]

Thanks Bridger. Quite informative.

[randymac]

I thought i heard at the allocation meeting in Langley just before xmas that the guide territories were opened up to foreign ownership last year but cannot find anything definitive on that.
I did however find this
Certificate Trust Account

In British Columbia ownership of a guiding territory is designated through a Guiding Territory Certificate.
Day to day operation of the guiding business is carried on under a Guide Outfitter Licence.
The Guiding Territory Certificate and the Guide Outfitter Licence may only be held by individuals who are residents of Canada or Canadian citizens.
For owners of guide territories who employ guide outfitters, or for foreign owners, it is imperative that the Guiding Territory Certificate and the Guide Outfitter Licence be held in separate and individual names.
We offer a Certificate Trust Account service, holding Guiding Territory Certificates in trust for owners. This service provides all those things necessary to keep the certificate in good standing under the Wildlife Act of BC. Owners are afforded many benefits under the Certificate Trust Account.
http://www.mccowans.com/content/certificate-trust-account

[Whonnock Boy]

The guy on FB has inquired to the GOABC, and is waiting for a response.

[cuervosail]

If someone has the inclination and a bit of time (and a credit card) .. here are a couple of places to start doing some research into the original question ...

https://www.bconline.gov.bc.ca/corp_reg.html

https://www.corporateonline.gov.bc.ca/corporateonline/colin/static/colin/html/index.html

[emerson]

I thought i heard at the allocation meeting in Langley just before xmas that the guide territories were opened up to foreign ownership last year but cannot find anything definitive on that.
I did however find this
Certificate Trust Account
In British Columbia ownership of a guiding territory is designated through a Guiding Territory Certificate.


Day to day operation of the guiding business is carried on under a Guide Outfitter Licence.
The Guiding Territory Certificate and the Guide Outfitter Licence may only be held by individuals who are residents of Canada or Canadian citizens.
For owners of guide territories who employ guide outfitters, or for foreign owners, it is imperative that the Guiding Territory Certificate and the Guide Outfitter Licence be held in separate and individual names.
We offer a Certificate Trust Account service, holding Guiding Territory Certificates in trust for owners. This service provides all those things necessary to keep the certificate in good standing under the Wildlife Act of BC. Owners are afforded many benefits under the Certificate Trust Account.


http://www.mccowans.com/content/certificate-trust-account



Interesting.

[Whonnock Boy]

I wonder if McCowans has any obligation to divulge their client list. Fired off an email to them to test the waters.

[bridger]

I wonder if McCowans has any obligation to divulge their client list. Fired off an email to them to test the waters.

They don't

[Whonnock Boy]

I wasn't holding my breath. :wink:


They don't

[The Hermit]

The rules about ownership of a Guide Outfit have recently changed (this past fall I believe).