Introduction and tactics

[kawdy]

Hello all,


I have been a long time lurker and infrequent viewer of this site. Recent events highlighted in this thread have finally motivated me to post here. This is where the GOABC and it’s supporters on this site have miscalculated the number of hunters outraged over the allocation percentages. Note to GOABC, most of the hunters of B.C. aren’t even aware this forum exists but that doesn’t mean they aren’t aware of the issues. Only one of my hunter friends is on this site, but every other hunter friend without exception that I’ve spoken with is seriously pissed.


I won’t bother to revisit the issues as they have obviously been well hashed out here now and each side is firmly entrenched in their positions.


The logging industry looks at old growth forests as board feet and maximum potential profit. The commercial fishing industry looks at salmon and other finfish as a resource to be exploited. Both of the aforementioned industries would fish and saw themselves into oblivion if left to their own devices. This is because it is business and by it’s definition business exists to make a profit, and profit driven entities have historically proven to be very poor stewards of the environment. The only thing that saves them from themselves is sound government policy and engaged citizens. Having said that, I strongly support both industries and hope they are around for generations to come, but in a highly regulated fashion. What is the common theme amongst these industries and the commercial hunting industry in B.C., yes it’s easy to spot PROFIT driven. They will never put residents interests first, they can’t. The obligations of a business are to it’s owners, shareholders and quite often to maintaining the bonuses of the board. The public/resident hunter are just another barrier to maximizing profit. I hold no ill will to any guide or outfitter, but I will fight with every fibre of my being to make sure resident interests come before foreign interests. The pendulum has swung much to far and it’s time to collectively force it back to the middle.


I have written letters and signed petitions. I want to do more and have time to commit to the cause. It’s time to channel anger into action. Another member and I are brainstorming on ways to achieve results. I am a member of BCWF, WSSofBC and the fish and game club of Victoria (Malahat). These organizations are invaluable and I thank each and every volunteer for their efforts on my and my children’s behalf. Being not for profit these organizations aren’t able to engage politically in the same manner of the GOABC., so it’s up to us Joe Hunter to do so. Following are some ideas I have to achieve our objectives, please let me know what you think.


1. let’s send a rep to each trade show to hand out leaflets and educate would be guided hunters. I will personally buy one round trip ticket for anyone interested in doing so, I can only afford one, is their anyone interested out there in matching me ? Or paying for a hotel etc. We could promote the outfitters at the same time that come out and denounce the allocation policy, sadly I’m sure all we’ll hear is crickets chirping.


2. Let’s buy some of our own newspaper space. I live in Victoria, so a natural choice would be the TC. Other cells could accomplish this in every town and city of the province. I have already emailed an advertising exec at the TC and am awaiting the various cost options. This is also something I am willing to contribute to financially, but would like some help.


3. This last idea may be more unpalatable to many members here. let’s have a list of all the outfitters that supported this change, and then we post lat and longs of every one of their sheep camps, lodge and spike. I have a few to contribute myself. We could also start a list of other camps for high value animals. This hits them in the pocket book. I am not sure how I feel about this myself, but I think we should discuss all options.


Sorry no joke here to introduce myself, sadly I’m not in the joking mood.


Kawdy.

[Paulyman]

If i had the money I'd like to start a for profit organization like M.E.C. that aligns with the objectives of the bcwf, however the main difference would be that the organizations profits would go back into conservation and legal representation of the BC hunters. Could you imagine if there was a huge corporation that we bought our hunting supplies at and it pumped the profits right back into our cause...

[kayjayess]

There seems to be a lot of talk about how everyone is so upset with the allocation policy but not how to remedy it. There have been a few suggestions earlier on other threads about what to do. These including emailing the decision makers at the government level and the ideas of advising foreign hunters of the shit storm in BC trying to dissuade them from coming to BC, but really there hasn't been many solutions to this problem.

Part of the issue is that any of the organized groups that represent our interests, namely the BCWF, has to be very careful in what they become involve in, and certainly, they can't get involved at a political level. So we need some leadership on how to proceed. Kawdy, you obviously are very impassioned about this cause as we all are and I agree that action must be taken. I too am willing to affront money to this cause and place my time and effort in to remedying this decision.

Ladies and gentlemen resident hunters, really do we need to be debating the allocation policy any more? You are wasting your time. The pro policy people on this forum will not be persuaded to take up our cause. The only people we should be trying to sway are the general public ( ie the voters) or the Liberal government who made this policy. There is nothing more to debate here. Now it is time to act. I am offering my support to assist Kawdy in this endeavour and ask you to do the same.

[Fisher-Dude]

Part at of the issue is that any of the organized groups that represent our interests, namely the BCWF, has to be very careful in what they become involve in, and certainly, they can't get involved in a political level. So we need some leadership on how to proceed.

While the BCWF has to protect its charitable status, it's 99% certain that your local fish & game club is not a charitable organization, so that would be the first avenue I'd explore to find the leadership on this.

[kayjayess]

I think you missed my point FD, there is some leadership here. Someone is stepping up with solutions, some money, and a will to act. I am offering my support. Now is the time for others to do the same.

Trust me, if some local club steps up and spearheads this, I am content to work with them. So far I have seen nothing and very little action by anyone other than debate the topic. Now someone wants to act (Kawdy). I am behind him. Any support you can lend I suspect would be appreciated.

[BigfishCanada]

Im in, you lead and ill help

[Rob Chipman]

Kawdy & Kayjayess:

I think you're both correct. BCWF and WSS and all the local F&G clubs obviously do some good things, but they aren't able to effectively combat any political force that is contrary to resident hunter issues.


I think you're correct to point out that we're not likely to convince anyone who is pro-GOABC if we haven't done so by now. I'm not sure its a waste of time to bitch and complain about the policy, though. I'm sure it's raised the profile of the issue among politicians.

I think the real question is what value is it to raise the profile of the issue with people who end up having a great deal of influence. I'm basing this on what I've read on the forum, but apparently Bill Bennett doesn't give a shit, Steve Thompson doesn't need the votes, Christy Clarke has gratefully received the letters and passed them to Steve Thompson, and your local MLA is concerned about the whole thing and is striving to ensure that the right people achieve a fair solution to all stakeholders.

Translation: they're likely thinking "Let's weather this storm, it won't last long, and we'll go about our business as usual. The issue will be essentially dead by summer".

I think that the majority of hunters got caught looking the other way in this case. I think that what you are suggesting, really, is that this discontent be harnessed for the long haul, and if that is where you're going, I agree with you.

There are a lot of things that need to be done if we are going to have any tangible results, but I think we need to react the way we would if we came home and found that our house and workshop, which we were never in the habit of locking, had been robbed. We'd bitch. We'd complain. We'd be upset tht the cops couldn't find the thief. We'd rail about how the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

But then we'd buy some locks, and start locking stuff up.

We'd buy insurance.

We'd buy some surveillance cameras at Costco.

We'd get some motion sensor lights.

None of that would happen overnight, but at the very minimum we'd take action over the long term that protected us from further loss, and may even confirm what we suspected all along: that the thief was a guy we previously thought was alright.

For my part I need to start with education. I've been trading some messages with a few guys on the forum who have been quite helpful. I want to start a knowledge base that is open to everyone (I'm a big believer that the truth is always friendly and that honesty just speeds up the future).


I'm in favour of a science based approach to resource management that preserves and enhances the rights and opportunities of resident hunters. I want politicians to publicly support that position or publicly dismiss it. I think its a position that puts people on the spot. If someone were to put an ad in the paper I think it would be more effective to be able to say "Steve Thompson does not support science based management of our wildlife" than to say "Steve Thompson gave too much of what we think is our share of a resource to someone who thinks its their fair share of a resource" (which is what the current allocation argument boils down to, which is what allows politicians to say "We're just trying to get a fair solution to a very complex problem").

Just my 2 cents. I think you're both on the right track.

[kawdy]

Hello and some great Ideas. FD thanks for the suggestion regarding local clubs taking leadership. I have already attempted this by emailing the local clubs president and have not had a resonse to date. I wanted to discuss with him the potential to organize a meeting of like minded sportsman at the club property. Maybe it's Christmas or maybe he isn't interested, time will tell.

Tonight I'll post a list of the upcoming trade shows. With any luck the dates will coincide with someones snowbird plans. I believe time is imperative here, and we need to have all our ducks in a row before the trade show season commences.

Another idea that may prove to be effective is a forum campaign. If 2 dozen members of this site were to commit a few minutes per day to the cause, we could have the whole USA covered. I envision it like this, we each pick two states, find the forums the local like to hang out at, and then we educate them and keep the issue at the top. Also attempt to contact the admistration of the forum and attempt to get the post stickied. We are all sportsman and have similar goals and values. My American friends and co-workers have so far been very sympathetic. Someone who is more versed than I in the details of the allocation policy could make a list of salient points to circulate amongst the various forums, that way we have a common theme and stay on topic. There must be a member out there who speaks Deutsch who could hit the german sites as well. My job requires me to fly to LA a couple of times per month, so once again a natural choice for me would be to take on the responsibility of California and Arizona. I have a few co-workers who are hunters as well that work in those two states, I'll mine them for information on how to reach the would be GOABC clients.

Thanks for reading and keep the ideas coming.

Kawdy

[Foxton Gundogs]

I think you missed my point FD, there is some leadership here. Someone is stepping up with solutions, some money, and a will to act. I am offering my support. Now is the time for others to do the same.

Trust me, if some local club steps up and spearheads this, I am content to work with them. So far I have seen nothing and very little action by anyone other than debate the topic. Now someone wants to act (Kawdy). I am behind him. Any support you can lend I suspect would be appreciated.

The BCWF as FD said is hamstrung to some extent by it's charitable status, that being said, they are doing all they can including holding town hall meetings, one of which will be held in Nanaimo which I trust you are planning to attend. If you are unhappy with the effort being put into the fight by your local club then it's time you (and all other members) get on their case they are NOT hampered by Charitable status so have no excuse and the membership drives the club, get them involved. As for Leadership, Fowl Language, Goat Guy, NoahDog and his sidekick, to name a few, have been in the batters box since the onset, and it's good to see others stepping up. And there is money available it just needs to be put to good use.

[kayjayess]

The BCWF as FD said is hamstrung to some extent by it's charitable status, that being said, they are doing all they can including holding town hall meetings, one of which will be held in Nanaimo which I trust you are planning to attend. If you are unhappy with the effort being put into the fight by your local club then it's time you (and all other members) get on their case. As for Leadership, Fowl Language, Goat Guy, NoahDog and his sidekick, to name a few, have been in the batters box since the onset. And there is money available it just needs to be put to good use.

In terms of leadership, yes Fowl Language, GG, NoahDog, and deaddog have stepped up. That is on behalf of the BCWF, and have done an excellent job. My point is that BCWF, being non charitable has been doing a great job, but has been limited in other areas that we collectively as resident hunters can start undertaking. WRT the local clubs, efforts have been made, as Kawdy outlined and there has still been very little action. Kawdy has brought up some very valid points and wants to/is taking action. Here is an opportunity for resident hunters to get involved and pick up where the BCWF has left off.

Do you suggest we do nothing else other than write letters to our local club and hope for the best? You just said yourself that the BCWF is doing all they can. They are doing a great job, I agree. Some of us wish to do more, and pick up where the BCWF is not able to go.

[Fisher-Dude]

I would suggest that members of local clubs step up and take on the fight.

The clubs belong to you, take on the duties and make it happen.

Don't wait for the same handful of guys on the BoD of your club who stickhandle everything from fundraising to burnt out lightbulbs in the meeting rooms to do it all for you. Take your plans to them and tell your club what you are prepared to do.

[kayjayess]

Hello and some great Ideas. FD thanks for the suggestion regarding local clubs taking leadership. I have already attempted this by emailing the local clubs president and have not had a resonse to date. I wanted to discuss with him the potential to organize a meeting of like minded sportsman at the club property. Maybe it's Christmas or maybe he isn't interested, time will tell.

Tonight I'll post a list of the upcoming trade shows. With any luck the dates will coincide with someones snowbird plans. I believe time is imperative here, and we need to have all our ducks in a row before the trade show season commences.

Another idea that may prove to be effective is a forum campaign. If 2 dozen members of this site were to commit a few minutes per day to the cause, we could have the whole USA covered. I envision it like this, we each pick two states, find the forums the local like to hang out at, and then we educate them and keep the issue at the top. Also attempt to contact the admistration of the forum and attempt to get the post stickied. We are all sportsman and have similar goals and values. My American friends and co-workers have so far been very sympathetic. Someone who is more versed than I in the details of the allocation policy could make a list of salient points to circulate amongst the various forums, that way we have a common theme and stay on topic. There must be a member out there who speaks Deutsch who could hit the german sites as well. My job requires me to fly to LA a couple of times per month, so once again a natural choice for me would be to take on the responsibility of California and Arizona. I have a few co-workers who are hunters as well that work in those two states, I'll mine them for information on how to reach the would be GOABC clients.

Thanks for reading and keep the ideas coming.

Kawdy

Good ideas Kawdy. I am willing to take a couple of states as well and will start posting. Let me know which ones. Maybe our BCWF reps on here can provide us with some stats or facts that we can use. Jim, Dale, or Jesse could you help us with that information?

In terms of the outfitter show you are right, they are starting this month. If there are any volunteers to attend I too will purchase a round trip plane ticket or pay for hotels or tickets to a show. Are there any volunteers that are interested in attending on behalf of Bc resident hunters? Basically I envision the individual handing out pamphlets and educating prospective foreign hunters on the reality of hunting in BC.

[kayjayess]

I would suggest that members of local clubs step up and take on the fight.

The clubs belong to you, take on the duties and make it happen.

Don't wait for the same handful of guys on the BoD of your club who stickhandle everything from fundraising to burnt out lightbulbs in the meeting rooms to do it all for you. Take your plans to them and tell your club what you are prepared to do.

FD, Kawdy has contacted his local club to no avail. To be clear, Kawdy has stepped and is running with it. He is making it happen. I am supporting this cause and we are now soliciting others to get involved.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Actually the Dawg, and his sidekick, got website, Facebook pages and petition's happening all on their own, while Fowl is with the BCWF his position on it in his own words is "I wish my hands weren't tied like this". As for writing letters to your local club, sure and call and go to the next meeting organized in force and tell them you want action, it can be done there have been clubs "pushed" into ponying up some sizeable budgets for the cause no reason others can't be as well, you need to organize as members and PUSH. As for Kawdy he has some great ideas that are being seen and recognized by the main forces behind this, I am very glad to have him in our camp.

[tripleseven]

Hi All,

I'd never really been active in any groups or associations, but this issue has struck a chord with me. I won't clutter this thread with the reasons as to why this allocation is wrong.

I have written letters to my MLA (Lana Popham), and I will invite her to an upcoming BCWF meeting in Nanaimo on the 21st of January. I've also written letters to Christy Clark and Steve Thomson. I've contacted my BCWF branch to find out what I can do in terms of support and volunteering, and I will do the same with my local Fish and Game club.

What does everyone think of leveraging some of the associations that benefit from the huge amounts of money that resident hunters inject into our BC economy? I bet that if you were able to tally the numbers, that resident hunters might even have more of an economic impact per animal that guided hunts. Where a guest will pay $10,000 to a single guide outfitter, a resident moose hunting party might only spend several thousand dollars annually excluding major capital purchases such as their made-in-Kelowna camper...which is Steve Thomson's Constituency. In the case of resident hunters, that several thousand dollars is injected in local business that are employee intensive including gas stations, hotels, restaurants, retail stores etc.

Perhaps we should ensure that industry associations that benefit from resident hunters are aware of the issue. Two groups that come to mind are:

BC Hotel Association
http://www.bchotelassociation.com/

BC RV Dealer Association
http://www.rvda.bc.ca/

[Fisher-Dude]

Hi All,

I'd never really been active in any groups or associations, but this issue has struck a chord with me. I won't clutter this thread with the reasons as to why it this allocation wrong.

I have written letters to my MLA (Lana Popham), and I will invite her to an upcoming BCWF meeting in Nanaimo on the 21st of January. I've also written letters to Christy Clark and Steve Thomson. I've contacted my BCWF branch to find out what I can do in terms of support and volunteering, and I will do the same with my local Fish and Game club.

What does everyone think of leveraging some of the associations that benefit from the huge amounts of money that resident hunters inject into our BC economy? I bet that if you were able to tally the numbers, that resident hunters might even have more of an economic impact per animal that guided hunts. Where a guide will pay $10,000 to a single guide outfitter, a resident moose hunting party might only spend several thousand dollars annually (excluding major capital purchases such as their made-in-Kelowna camper), but in the case of resident hunters it is injected in local business that are employee intensive including gas stations, hotels, restaurants, retail stores etc.

Perhaps we should ensure that industry associations that benefit from resident hunters are aware of the issue. Two groups that come to mind are:

BC Hotel Association
http://www.bchotelassociation.com/

BC RV Dealer Association
http://www.rvda.bc.ca/


Great ideas and you're absolutely right.

Rarely do non-residents ever spend anything at motels, RV dealers, restaurants, gas stations, sports shops, etc as they are picked up at the airport by the GO and taken directly to base camp. GO I spoke with said lots of these guys shoot the animal they want within a few days and are then chomping at the bit to get back to the airport ASAP. He said they spend nothing here at local shops.

The resident hunters, on the other hand, are often the lifeblood of our rural communities where they stay a couple of weeks and buy all kinds of stuff. I know how much money we've dropped at The Hungry Bear, and the number of camo-clad people buying dinner certainly shows the impact we have on local businesses.

[bridger]

Suggest we look at revamping the resident priority fund. Infrastructure in place.

[tripleseven]

I have also been tweeting my feelings on the allocation to both Christy Clark and Steve Thomson. Twitter is visible to their voters, and will raise the issue in a bigger light Their twitter names are @christyclarkbc (https://twitter.com/christyclarkbc) and @Steve4Kelowna (https://twitter.com/Steve4Kelowna)

It isn't too hard to learn how to use!

[one-shot-wonder]

Triple7, good idea, whatever social media stream you take, keep things professional. Public's image of hunters is already bad enough we dont need "hillbilly redneck slander" further ruining our credibility. In my opinion we have done well over the last month to build rapport in the public eye, however a few outspoken can hurt our credibility. Nothing wrong with being passionate and outspoken, just need to keep it classy.

Kawdy,

I admire your passion and desire to get involved. I am reaching out to some of my southern island contacts in hopes to have you intouch with appropriate personnel. We will be in touch......stay tuned for the ride of your life!! :)

[Gateholio]

I really like the idea of attending conventions, but frankly I think you would get kicked out of the premises.

[tripleseven]

I really like the idea of attending conventions, but frankly I think you would get kicked out of the premises.

I have concerns about this tactic as well. I could see making noise that the allocation of game in BC is unfairly given to GO's would actually work in their FAVOR with prospective clients - it might make a client more inclined to book here rather than somewhere else.

[bckoothunter]

I just had a thought, does anybody know what it would take to create a for-profit, membership driven, association or similar that COULD fight the political fights for BC Hunters? If all the BC resident hunters banded together and put our membership dollars toward our common goals, wouldn't this help deliver the pressure and the presence we are all looking for on the political level?

Now, I haven't really thought this through, I know it's not an overnight solution and I know it would take a lot of work, but it sure seems like there are some very passionate and what seem to be talented gents on this site, so I'm hoping they can either run with this or dismiss it, either way I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

Don't take any of this the wrong way, I support membership dollars going to the various groups (BCWF, etc.). Just saying that I would also give my money to a group that cared about my rights as a BC resident hunter and cared about the BC wildlife.

[Bugle M In]

haven't read all the posts here.
But for the record, my father has declined his BCWF renewal after being a member for as long as it has been around.
Mine will be declined as well.
We need a voice that represents resident hunters.....politically. ( however that needs to be organized, like a lobby group is )
Enough said... when I see that initiative taken...I will sign up, and buck in!

[The Hermit]

I too wrote to the executive of the VFGPA in early Dec and have not had ANY response from them. I think the majority of the 2000+ members own handguns and are therefore required to belong to a "Range" so may not be as engaged in wildlife matters as in days past.

[Foxton Gundogs]

haven't read all the posts here.
But for the record, my father has declined his BCWF renewal after being a member for as long as it has been around.
Mine will be declined as well.
We need a voice that represents resident hunters.....politically. ( however that needs to be organized, like a lobby group is )
Enough said... when I see that initiative taken...I will sign up, and buck in!

Were you given a reason for this refusal? It would be good to hear the details. If you were to PM all the details to Fowl Language I'm sure he would be more than happy to look into this for you.

[Bugle M In]

Were you given a reason for this refusal? It would be good to hear the details. If you were to PM all the details to Fowl Language I'm sure he would be more than happy to look into this for you.

ummm, think there may be a misunderstanding...my father and I have refused at this point, to not renew are membership....BCWF, wants us to renew.
I am not asking BCWF to tell us who to vote for etc.
I want BCWF, to tell any government party, that they (BCWF) will be the "voice" for Resident hunters, and if need be, change their role to be a lobbyist for resident hunters only.
I understand this is not their mandate, and that they have always wanted to have all hunters, whether resident or guide enrolled in their campaign..so to speak.
But, guides have GOAB if they choose, to protect their interests...
Now I want to see someone at the table that protects resident hunters interests.
BCWF and WSS can protect wildlife at the table....fine by me.
But, I want to enroll in A resident hunter voice only... period!...and have them at the table.
That's the simplest way for me to describe it.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Fair enough sorry for the misunderstanding, but IMO you have made the wrong decision.

[Whonnock Boy]

Is that not what the BCWF is, aside from being able to donate? If so,do we the RH, want to be known for "buying" our management ideals?

[kawdy]

Gatehouse, you are absolutely correct, I don't believe we would be welcome at all on site. However, in the good old USA, public space is fair game for protest or handing out leaflets. The following is from the ACLU (American civil liberties union).

You may approach pedestrians on public sidewalks with leaflets, newspapers, petitions, and solicitations for donations without a permit. These types of free speech activities are legal as long as entrances to buildings are not blocked and passers-by are not physically and maliciously detained. However, a permit may be required to set up tables or other physical structures.


One of the largest and most influential of the conventions is the Wild Sheep Foundation held in Reno NV.
The dates are from Jan 7th to the 10th. There are no less than 15 GOABC members renting space there.
Regarding the lack of volunteers as of yet, I don't imagine anyone will be stepping forward to attend this convention.
Two alternate ideas spring to mind. I also have a couple of co-workers who live in Reno, I will contact them tomorrow and see if they know anyone who wants to make a few hundred dollars handing out information sheets in front of the convention. I will also contact the local paper directly and see if it is financially feasable to buy some space.

[tripleseven]

ummm, think there may be a misunderstanding...my father and I have refused at this point, to not renew are membership....BCWF, wants us to renew.
I am not asking BCWF to tell us who to vote for etc.
I want BCWF, to tell any government party, that they (BCWF) will be the "voice" for Resident hunters, and if need be, change their role to be a lobbyist for resident hunters only.
I understand this is not their mandate, and that they have always wanted to have all hunters, whether resident or guide enrolled in their campaign..so to speak.


But, guides have GOAB if they choose, to protect their interests...
Now I want to see someone at the table that protects resident hunters interests.
BCWF and WSS can protect wildlife at the table....fine by me.
But, I want to enroll in A resident hunter voice only... period!...and have them at the table.
That's the simplest way for me to describe it.

I've heard rumblings that the BCWF is limited as to how political (for example lobbying) they can be without jeopardizing their Charitable Organization status. The CRA has been on the warpath for any Charitable Organizations that is even remotely related to politics...especially if they appear to be of the environmental type. I think BCWF has legitimate reason to be wary of this. I think it warrants discussion - if BCWF is not able to compete with GOABC for policy lobbying, then perhaps a new organization needs to be formed that can get this done effectively.

[Bugle M In]

I've heard rumblings that the BCWF is limited as to how political (for example lobbying) they can be without jeopardizing their Charitable Organization status. The CRA has been on the warpath for any Charitable Organizations that is even remotely related to politics...especially if they appear to be of the environmental type. I think BCWF has legitimate reason to be wary of this. I think it warrants discussion - if BCWF is not able to compete with GOABC for policy lobbying, then perhaps a new organization needs to be formed that can get this done effectively.

Bingo!!!!!!!!!

[Whonnock Boy]

Is this not a valid concern?


If so,do we the RH, want to be known for "buying" our management ideals?

[HarryToolips]

Excellent ideas Kawdy, good to see others passionate about taking up the fight...as I have previously posted, I think public protests are a good way for us resident hunters to fight this new allocation policy as well..we would draw the attention of the general public in a major way, we'd just have to make sure we go about it in a civilized manner..

[Fisher-Dude]

Do some people want to show up at the door a day late and a dollar short?

There are plenty of avenues already in place to effectively fight this. Trying to buy a political favour isn't one of them, especially since the Legislature sits in February and this policy will become law before a Societies Act paperwork is stamped.

[Ranger95]

Soo how many of you "armchair warriors" are there in lower mainland -- how many really want to do more, than "yap away" on here how "pizzed off" you are?..................

Wednesday night is the first Wednesday of of January 2015 - come down to Jimmy Macs at about 7pm on 96th Avenue in Port Kells (Langley) and talk to the rest of us - let's see if we can actually get of our collective backsides and do something.


just saying!!!!

[Ranger95]

...... Double post.....

[riflebuilder]

Why don't we have res hunters meet on the steps of the legislature on the opening day of the next session. If a thousand people showed up that would get some attention and our voices would be heard

[mikeman20]

Soo how many of you "armchair warriors" are there in lower mainland -- how many really want to do more, than "yap away" on here how "pizzed off" you are?..................

Wednesday night is the first Wednesday of of January 2015 - come down to Jimmy Macs at about 7pm on 96th Avenue in Port Kells (Langley) and talk to the rest of us - let's see if we can actually get of our collective backsides and do something.


just saying!!!!
Will do! Time to get done things done for real

[tripleseven]

Do some people want to show up at the door a day late and a dollar short?

There are plenty of avenues already in place to effectively fight this. Trying to buy a political favour isn't one of them, especially since the Legislature sits in February and this policy will become law before a Societies Act paperwork is stamped.

I'm not clear on what this is in reference to. Can you please clarify? If it is in response to my suggestion of 'lobbying' I'm certainly not suggesting that we use donations or anything remotely close to that to gain favor. Have a read of wikipedias definition of the term.

If BCWF is being shackled in their ability to pressure and engage our politicians by their non-profit status, perhaps it's time to consider a subset of BCWF that wouldn't be limited in that way. I'm far from an expert in the options at the moment, but one option could be a C3 structure, where the BCWF is s shareholder. http://www.centreforsocialenterprise.com/C3_BC.html

I'm just throwing ideas out there. I plan on attending a BCWF meeting on the allocation issue in Nanaimo on January 21st to get a better feel for everything.

EDIT: I agree that there is no way that a new, more politically facing group could be formed in time to deal with this current re-allocation. I'm sure that this is not the only time that guides will push for a greater share of the allocation. In addition to writing letters, possibly protesting, and generating some media awareness of the issue for the short term, I think we need to have a politically facing action group to counter the GOABC.

[Walksalot]

Proposed changes to B.C.’s wildlife allocation policy not consistent, says wildlife federation By staff1 (http://www.osoyoostimes.com/author/staff1/) on December 23, 2014









http://www.osoyoostimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/turkeyshoot1-650x433.jpg (http://www.osoyoostimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/turkeyshoot1.jpg)Proposed changes to the wildlife allocation policy are inconsistent with standard practices in other jurisdictions across Canada and the United States, said George Wilson, president of the BC Wildlife Federation. There is no justification for these changes and they are not supported by B.C.’s resident hunters, Wilson said. The South Okanagan Sportsmen’s Association (SOSA) agrees. This photo shows John Tavares of Oliver at a recent turkey shoot organized by SOSA. (Richard McGuire file photo)

The B.C. government’s new Wildlife Harvest Allocation is missing the target, according to local hunters and the BC Wildlife Federation.
The federation argues that the policy in favour of the Guide-Outfitters Association of BC (GOABC) would dramatically reduce residents’ access to wild game and increases the number of permits sold to foreign big game trophy hunters.
“Proposed changes to the wildlife allocation policy are inconsistent with standard practices in other jurisdictions across Canada and the United States,” said George Wilson, president of the BC Wildlife Federation. “There is no justification for these changes and they are not supported by B.C.’s resident hunters,” Wilson said.
The Southern Okanagan Sportsmen’s Association (SOSA) agrees.
“We support the federation in its position (bringing more fairness to resident hunters),” said Joan Lindsay, a director with the federation and member of SOSA.
Lindsay said it is concerning how resident hunters are impacted by the Limited Entry Hunt (LEH).
For example, moose is the most sought after species by BC hunters. In many areas, demand exceeds supply and hunters are placed on a (LEH) lottery.
Approximately 70,000 BC hunters apply for 13,000 LEH permits each year, meaning only one in five hunters get to hunt moose annually, according to the federation.
Foreign hunters do not need to apply for a LEH permit and can hunt annually, taking moose from approximately 3,000 B.C. hunters each year, the federation says.
The government’s wildlife allocation chart for this region (Region 8) shows the percentage split between resident hunters and guide outfitters. The following resident/outfitter splits are indicated: Bull moose 80/20, big horn sheep 70/30, mountain goat 65/35, and Grizzly bear 60/40.
The Ministry of Forest Lands and Natural Resource Operations says some guides have been significantly impacted by the existing policy to the point their businesses are in jeopardy. The new policy that increases their allocation adds some relief to this situation.
According to the ministry, resident hunters will continue to receive priority shares of the wildlife allocation (as outlined in the allocation chart).
The new policy represents a transfer of approximately 186 animals from residents to guides, the ministry says.
In a recent press release, the GOABC says the new allocation shares are welcomed.
“We support a healthy resident hunting community and support the principle of resident priority (that residents should receive the majority of harvest opportunities) after First Nations needs.”
The GOABC says resident hunters enjoy some of the longest and most liberal hunting opportunities of any jurisdictions in the world. It claims that hunters are able to pursue 18 of North America’s 29 big game species (most on general open season).
In fact, 17 per cent of the tourists to B.C. are guided by B.C. resident hunters, according to GOABC.
The association says there are 245 guide outfitters in B.C. who provide valuable jobs in small, rural communities.
“Guide outfitters are the founders of the tourism industry in B.C., and today approximately 5,000 clients travel to B.C. every year to hunt big game,” the association points out.
According to the GOABC, the allocation decision will have no significant impact to the average resident hunter.
But the wildlife federation says the new allocation would give foreign hunters up to 40 percent of specific game species such as mountain sheep, goat and bear, and up to 25 percent of moose and elk.
Jesse Zeman, a federation director who hunts with his family, said “any changes to the allocation policy should meet the needs of the majority of British Columbians who enjoy the outdoors, spend time with friends and family, and hunt for food.”
The federation states that B.C. resident hunters spend over $230 million a year in local communities on hunting related activities, and they contribute $9 million a year towards conservation work through license fees. The federation does not support giving away more than 10 percent for moose and elk, and 25 percent of mountain goat, sheep, and bears to foreign trophy hunters. Ironically, this gives non-resident hunters the best deal in North America, it points out.
Natural Resource Operations Minister Steve Thomson said all stakeholders want the same thing – healthy wildlife populations that can be sustainably used by all groups.
Thomson said while resident hunters are a higher priority than non-residents, this does not imply that resident demand must be fully satisfied before non-residents can be granted harvest opportunities.
“Instead, it means that the share that goes to residents is considerably greater than the share that goes to non-residents.”
LYONEL DOHERTY
Special to the Times

[kayjayess]

Kawdy, regarding posting on the forums in the US I am willing to take Texas and New Mexico, two big hunting states.

[kawdy]

Thanks Kayjayess, anyone else out there willing to claim a state or two ? Another member here just emailed me with a comprehensive list of each forum and their respective states. I will ask him to post it here when he has time.

My friend/co-worker in Reno is busy trying to find someone to hand out pamphlets on our behalf for this coming convention in Reno (Wild Sheep Foudation). I will pay for the printing and cost of an individual to hand out pamphlets myself. Standby and I'll keep you posted.

The other two irons in the fire I have are with the newspapers. I will follow up my emails to the TC and Reno newspaper on Monday.

The radio station in Victoria is CFAX 1070. They cover topical issues and may be open to air our perspective. This is a long shot but why not try. If succesful we would require a well spoken and informed person who is not afraid of public speaking. I will keep you posted on this as well.

This is a post in a thread I started at Rokslide under the title "B.C. resident hunters livid"

Hello all,

As the title suggests B.C. resident hunters have been let down by our own government. There is now a grassroots movement to reverse our current governments decision. The BCWF (B.C. wildlife foundation) is the organization that promotes conservation and hunters rights in BC. but they are a not for profit organization and are unable to get involved politically to the extent that is required now. This is why I and others will be contacting you through the various forums supported by hunters. I am in no way affiliated with the BCWF. I need to state this as our largest forum for hunters in B.C. is the HBC, huntingbc.ca and already a letter has been received from a lawyer threatening the mods with slander. I assume this is from one of the members of the GOABC and they are unhappy with and concerned about the average Joe Hunter pressuring the government to reverse it's decision.

The GOABC (guide outfitters of B.C.) have succesfully lobbied the government of B.C. to dramatically increase their quota on certain species (big dollar animals) at the expense of the resident hunter. 40 % of sheep/grizzly and goat in the north have been allocated to the outfitters of the GOABC and up to 25 % of other species. Considering that the average allotment to non residents in the USA and Canada is between 5-10 % this hurts. We are concerned about the future of hunting for our children when commerical interest takes precedent over the citizens interest. We can't match the financial contributions to the government that the GOABC makes and we don't have the ability to sway government policy in the same organized manner of a consortium, such as the GOABC. What we do have is thousands of betrayed hunters with fire in our belly.

What I ask of you my American brothers is to ask yourself how would you feel or react if a decision was made such as this in your state. Would you sit idly by or would you do something about it. PLEASE do not book any hunts with members of the GOABC at the Reno convention next week or at any other time until this issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the B.C. residents. Remember the Yukon has stones sheep as well.

If you do happen to find yourself on a guided hunt in B.C. this year, have no fear, you will be welcomed by the B.C. resident hunter as hunter and friend with common shared interests and values, however the man sitting beside you on the horse may have a very frosty welcome from this hunter.

Please take some time to educate yourself on this issue by visiting the huntingbc.ca site and reading the various threads.

Now as I suggested before, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they will engage with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.

thanks kindly,​

Kawdy

[kayjayess]

Thanks Kayjayess, anyone else out there willing to claim a state or two ? Another member here just emailed me with a comprehensive list of each forum and their respective states. I will ask him to post it here when he has time.

My friend/co-worker in Reno is busy trying to find someone to hand out pamphlets on our behalf for this coming convention in Reno (Wild Sheep Foudation). I will pay for the printing and cost of an individual to hand out pamphlets myself. Standby and I'll keep you posted.

The other two irons in the fire I have are with the newspapers. I will follow up my emails to the TC and Reno newspaper on Monday.

The radio station in Victoria is CFAX 1070. They cover topical issues and may be open to air our perspective. This is a long shot but why not try. If succesful we would require a well spoken and informed person who is not afraid of public speaking. I will keep you posted on this as well.

This is a post in a thread I started at Rokslide under the title "B.C. resident hunters livid"

Hello all,

As the title suggests B.C. resident hunters have been let down by our own government. There is now a grassroots movement to reverse our current governments decision. The BCWF (B.C. wildlife foundation) is the organization that promotes conservation and hunters rights in BC. but they are a not for profit organization and are unable to get involved politically to the extent that is required now. This is why I and others will be contacting you through the various forums supported by hunters. I am in no way affiliated with the BCWF. I need to state this as our largest forum for hunters in B.C. is the HBC, huntingbc.ca and already a letter has been received from a lawyer threatening the mods with slander. I assume this is from one of the members of the GOABC and they are unhappy with and concerned about the average Joe Hunter pressuring the government to reverse it's decision.

The GOABC (guide outfitters of B.C.) have succesfully lobbied the government of B.C. to dramatically increase their quota on certain species (big dollar animals) at the expense of the resident hunter. 40 % of sheep/grizzly and goat in the north have been allocated to the outfitters of the GOABC and up to 25 % of other species. Considering that the average allotment to non residents in the USA and Canada is between 5-10 % this hurts. We are concerned about the future of hunting for our children when commerical interest takes precedent over the citizens interest. We can't match the financial contributions to the government that the GOABC makes and we don't have the ability to sway government policy in the same organized manner of a consortium, such as the GOABC. What we do have is thousands of betrayed hunters with fire in our belly.

What I ask of you my American brothers is to ask yourself how would you feel or react if a decision was made such as this in your state. Would you sit idly by or would you do something about it. PLEASE do not book any hunts with members of the GOABC at the Reno convention next week or at any other time until this issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the B.C. residents. Remember the Yukon has stones sheep as well.

If you do happen to find yourself on a guided hunt in B.C. this year, have no fear, you will be welcomed by the B.C. resident hunter as hunter and friend with common shared interests and values, however the man sitting beside you on the horse may have a very frosty welcome from this hunter.

Please take some time to educate yourself on this issue by visiting the huntingbc.ca site and reading the various threads.

Now as I suggested before, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they will engage with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.

thanks kindly,​

Kawdy

Feel free to weigh in on these forums HBCers. Here is an opportunity to let non-resident aliens know how we are being treated as resident hunters here in BC

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?25176-B-C-resident-hunters-livid

[kebes]

Top Google hit for each state and hunting forum


Alabama: http://www.aldeer.com/forum/

Alaska: http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/

Arizona: http://www.arizonahuntingtoday.com/forum/

Arkansas: http://www.arkansashunting.net/forum...b5b138fca1b39c (http://www.arkansashunting.net/forum.php?)

California: http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/...fornia-Hunting (http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/171-California-Hunting)

Colorado: http://www.thecoloradohunter.com/col...hunting-forums (http://www.thecoloradohunter.com/colorado-hunting-forums)

Connecticut: http://www.cthuntingnshooting.com/

Delaware: http://easternshoreman.com/forum

Florida: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/f...p?33-Hunt-Camp (http://forums.floridasportsman.com/forumdisplay.php?33-Hunt-Camp)

Georgia: http://forum.gon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=36

Hawaii: http://hawaiisportsman.forumotion.co...-hunting-forum (http://hawaiisportsman.forumotion.com/f1-hawaii-hunting-forum)

Idaho: http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-bi...um=DCForumID37 (http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=list&forum=DCForumID37)

Illinois: http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regiona...s.cfm?state=il (http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/threads.cfm?state=il)

Indiana: http://hunt-indiana.com/

Iowa: http://www.iowasportsman.com/forum/

Kansas: http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regiona...s.cfm?state=ks (http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/threads.cfm?state=ks)

Kentucky: http://www.kentuckyhunting.net/forums/forum.php

Louisiana: http://www.louisianasportsman.com/su...n=&byline=&key (http://www.louisianasportsman.com/summary.php?issue=&section=&category=201&region=&byline=&key)=

Maine: http://www.mainehuntingforums.com/forum/

Maryland: http://easternshoreman.com/forum

Massachusetts: http://www.huntingchat.net/forum/for...chusetts-Forum (http://www.huntingchat.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?32-Massachusetts-Forum)

Michigan: http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/

Minnesota: http://mnoutdoorsman.com/forums/

Mississipi: http://www.mississippioutdoorforums....cussion-board/ (http://www.mississippioutdoorforums.com/forums/index.php?/forum/4-mississippi-outdoor-forums-general-discussion-board/)

Missouri: http://www.missouriwhitetails.com/mi...ing_forums.htm (http://www.missouriwhitetails.com/missouri_hunting_forums.htm)

Montana: http://www.huntandfishmontana.com/

Nebraska: http://www.nefga.org/forum/forumdisp...-Hunting-Forum (http://www.nefga.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?11-Nebraska-Hunting-Forum)

Nevada: http://www.eastmans.com/forum/forumd....php/19-Nevada (http://www.eastmans.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/19-Nevada)

New Hampshire: http://www.huntingchat.net/forum/for...ampshire-Forum (http://www.huntingchat.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?33-New-Hampshire-Forum)

New Jersey: http://www.newjerseyhunter.com/forums/forum.php

New Mexico: http://wassonhuntingservices.com/phpBB/

New York: http://huntingny.com/forums/

North Carolina: http://www.nchuntandfish.com/forums/

North Dakota: http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/

Ohio: http://www.theohiooutdoors.com/forum...-Hunting-Forum (http://www.theohiooutdoors.com/forumdisplay.php?5-Ohio-Whitetail-Hunting-Forum)

Oklahoma: http://www.oklahomahunter.net/

Oregon: http://www.ifish.net/board/forumdisplay.php?f=21

Pennsylvania: http://www.huntingpa.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

Rhode Island: http://www.rihunts.com/

South Carolina: http://www.scoutdoornews.com/forum/f...ada2aaab75c99c (http://www.scoutdoornews.com/forum/forum.php?)

South Dakota: http://southdakotahunting.com/forums

Tennessee: http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php

Texas: http://www.texashuntingforum.com/

Utah: http://utahwildlife.net/forum/

Vermont: http://www.huntingchat.net/forum/for...-Vermont-Forum (http://www.huntingchat.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?38-Vermont-Forum)

Virginia: http://easternshoreman.com/forum

Washington: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/

West Virginia: http://www.wvsportsman.net/smf/index.php

Wisconsin: http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regiona...s.cfm?state=wi (http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/threads.cfm?state=wi)

Wyoming: http://www.eastmans.com/forum/forumd...php/23-Wyoming (http://www.eastmans.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/23-Wyoming)[/QUOTE]

[180grainer]

It might be appropriate to ask these people how they'd feel if their hunting opportunities were being taken away and divided up amongst a bunch of foreigners. The Yanks wouldn't stand for that in their back yard.

[kayjayess]

180grainer. Agreed. They'd be burning down their legislature building right now if that happened in the U.S.

Kebes - thanks for the list.

[tripleseven]

I can take Washington and Oregon. I travel there on business frequently, and might be able to pop-into one or two of the larger fish and game clubs and post a similar sign on a bulletin board.

For my forum posts, I'd like to have an even more direct title:

"Please consider NOT booking your guided hunt in British Columbia"

777

[kawdy]

X2 Kebes thaks for the list.

[kawdy]

Two good ideas Tripler. I have a number of friends who are members of clubs in their states. I'm sure they'll help spread the word for us. We should come up with a common information sheet, concise and direct.

Also your suggestion of "please consider NOT booking your guided hunt in British Columbia" is great. As suggested by another, maybe it could be worded as "not with a GOABC member" or something similar, as I understand not all GO's are fans of this recent tentative policy.

[180grainer]

I'll take Montana and Oklahoma.

[kawdy]

Sounds like the snowball is starting to grow. Already it appears one would be bighorn hunter has changed his plan to hunt in B.C.

from Rokslide,
I tried visiting the site but it said that the admin blocked my IP address so I can't view anything on the site. I would also be infuriated. We have had similar issues with local govt here in ky. Which we over threw so good luck. I have been looking at outfitters in bc for bighorns and bein from the states I have no choice but to use one. I definitely do not agree with it by no means I would rather have to wait several years to go than take tags from the true outdoorsmen and supporters of the great resources that ur country has to offer. I wish y'all the best of luck. Keep it out there. Via internet social media news whatever it takes. Remember the silent majority is irrelevant so don't be the silent majority.

[kawdy]

On a seperate note, mods, any guidance to our southern neighbours on how to access the forum when their IP is banned. This has happened to myself as well while travelling. A work around for myself has been a virtual IP but is not feasible for many.

[Rackmastr]

Posted on Rokslide as well. Good to start getting the word out some more!!!

[Whonnock Boy]

On a seperate note, mods, any guidance to our southern neighbours on how to access the forum when their IP is banned. This has happened to myself as well while travelling. A work around for myself has been a virtual IP but is not feasible for many.

I use hola. It's a free, simple, easy to use program that puts you anywhere in the world, all from the confines of your own home. http://hola.org/

[Rob Chipman]

Thanks for that list. I'll do Alabama and Arizona (joined, waiting approval). That means, I think, that Washington, Oregon, Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Montana, Alabama and Arizona forums are underway.

[kebes]

Just a note, some of the forums may pop up a few times as several states top hits were subsections under broader forums.

[kayjayess]

Nice work gents. Thanks 180grainer and Rob. Same thing, I am pending approval on three sites.

Once you post what ever it is you post, please include the link to this thread. It would be good to have fellow HBC members post on those forums as a show of support like has occurred on the rockslide site. With these threads if we keep them popping up they get way more traffic and hence more traction.

Lastly keep it professional, factual, and consistent with the forum posting guidelines.

[Seeker]

I will look into Colorado, therefore we now have

Washington, Oregon, Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Montana, Alabama, Arizona and Colorado

[Ambush]

I have posted on Bowsite, two weeks ago and a new thread tonight.

[kayjayess]

I have posted on Bowsite, two weeks ago and a new thread tonight.

Nice job Ambush. Excellent post on Bowsite.

http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=438929&messages=4&forum=15

Thanks for the work. Strong support there too from our Southern friends.

[kawdy]

I mentioned somewhere in cyber past I would take California and Arizona. It seems someone else has a greater affinity for Arizona than I, LOL, so I'll take good old Cali and Nevada.

[kawdy]

Just a thought from another member about contacting other sportsmans clubs. When we post on the various forums maybe we should put out a blind request for the viewer to take this to their local club. I and a few other members will be meeting shortly in order to draft a letter people can copy/download and take to their clubs. This will be after talking to select members here and seeking their guidance with what pertinent info should be included.
This may take a week or so depending on work schedules and family obligations.

As Kayjayess said earlier, please visit sites other than the ones you have taken ownership of and comment on them, this will keep the issue fresh and hopefully reach a critical mass enabling our efforts to be more than an ethereal blip on the interweb.

[Whonnock Boy]

Maybe post a list of the forums on your original post Kawdy, and delete the ones that have been spoken for. As mentioned earlier, links to those sites, and subsequent threads should be posted as well, if possible on one of the first posts. Easier for all of us to frequent, and support the OP's with facts. Strength in numbers.

[kawdy]

Good idea Whonnok Boy. You guys think we should start a seperate thread solely dedicated to other forums ?
If yes, could we task you Kebes with managing that chore ? since you were kind enough to provide the list in the first place. I have multiple irons in the fire right now and my wifes 50th is tomorrow. So time and energy for the next few days have already been spoken for.

[boxhitch]

Suggest we look at revamping the resident priority fund. Infrastructure in place.you mean this one ? it has been active in the past , but quiet for a long time. I thought maybe it had to be abandoned ?

https://bcwfpaa.wordpress.com/

[Gateholio]

2 of the biggest international forums are accuratereloading.com and 24hourcampfire

Lots of travelling hunters on those forums.

[kebes]

I will work on a seprate thread this afternoon.

[tripleseven]

2 of the biggest international forums are accuratereloading.com and 24hourcampfire

Lots of travelling hunters on those forums.

Great suggestion, Gatehouse. I was going to suggest 24hourcampfire myself, as there seems to be a dedicated section for Canadian hunts. Also worth posting on are the various Facebook pages. For example 'Bear Hunting' has some 10,000 viewers; and in addition "Black, Brown and Grizzly Bear Hunting" has 23,000 viewers. "Elk Hunting North America" has 15,000 members. Unfortunately, I''m personally not able to post on the Facebook pages, perhaps someone else on here can?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/123592581083981/

https://www.facebook.com/bearhuntingblog

https://www.facebook.com/bear.hunting

[kayjayess]

2 of the biggest international forums are accuratereloading.com and 24hourcampfire

Lots of travelling hunters on those forums.

Thanks Gate. Any takers for accurateloading? I will work on 24hourcampfire.

[Seeker]

Thanks Gate. Any takers for accurateloading? I will work on 24hourcampfire.

I am waiting for approval from Accuratereloading. giddy up!

[kayjayess]

Feel free to comment on the Texas Hunting Forum.

http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/5518800#Post5518800

[Seeker]

residentpriority.ca has not been abandoned, but it is an offshoot of the BCWF, so I am feeling that it is either limited somewhat or the executive is apprehensive to get involved. There is someone with connections to this organization that is investigating options as we speak. I'll give it a few days and follow up.

[HarryToolips]

All very good work guys! I am going to hopefully help our fight in a different avenue, which is public protests, just waiting to hear from a couple people..

[tripleseven]

Feel free to comment on the Texas Hunting Forum.

http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/5518800#Post5518800

Oh, that's a good letter. Nice work!

[kayjayess]

All very good work guys! I am going to hopefully help our fight in a different avenue, which is public protests, just waiting to hear from a couple people..

Excellent idea. I am keen to work together on this too. I will do what I can and attend where I am able. The key is that we have to get the word out there. So not just via HBC. This information can be distributed at the club level through newsletters and also hopefully via the BCWF website and email lists. I am hoping the BCWF can include information about rallies even if they can't participate.

I know you mentioned the legislature earlier. I was thinking we could do this for the first sitting of the legislature in Feb the first day when they return. Another one is the goabc convention.

Obviously alert the the media and have them there for our 10 seconds of fame.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Hit these as well.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=register2

http://www.huntandfishmontana.com/

[Wentrot]

All very good work guys! I am going to hopefully help our fight in a different avenue, which is public protests, just waiting to hear from a couple people..

Music to my ears. I'll help in any way possible. Just let me know.

[guest]

Great Ideas fellas, I will also do my part good to see this in going out to support us BRITISH COLUMBIA RESIDENTS to tell the story. Will e mail ya Kyle

BC IS NOT FOR SALE.

Stay Strong and Stay together !

CT

[two-feet]

I am working out of province right now but I do have time and a computer. If one of you guys that has taken a lead on this wants to assign a task for me I will be more than willing to help out.

Mo

[kayjayess]

I am working out of province right now but I do have time and a computer. If one of you guys that has taken a lead on this wants to assign a task for me I will be more than willing to help out.

Mo

OK curlytop has taken Florida and New York.

Thanks for volunteering Mo. Would you be so kind to cover Georgia and Utah?

Thanks

[mikeman20]

I'll take two or three forums once I get internet service this Tuesday, posting from my phone isn't ideal

[two-feet]

OK curlytop has taken Florida and New York.

Thanks for volunteering Mo. Would you be so kind to cover Georgia and Utah?

Thanks

You bet. So what is the SOP, find the hunting forums for the state and lay out our case? Do we have a standard message that we are using? I know there has been about a million posts on the issue but is there one good page where I can pull rock solid numbers and facts from? The last thing we need is to be using shady info.

Thanks guys for taking the lead on this, I was hoping somebody with the right skills and temperament would step up to the plate and you fellas have. I will deal with Utah and Georgia, if anything else comes up let me know.

Mo

[Seeker]

Just sent a post to

https://www.facebook.com/bearhuntingblog

[Apolonius]

One of the best posts i read in this site.It is nice to see something really creative.I wish i could do more but ….my temper flares a bit too easy when i see what GOABC is doing ,with the help of the Liberal government.Never seeing as much disrespect as the reply of Bennet.This is the arrogance of a bully.The sooner we get rid of them the better.I will try and give some help…soon.What Goabc/Liberals has done is unforgivable!!!

[kayjayess]

Hi Mo,

Yes, you will need to sign up as a forum member to the other sites. It may take a while to sign up as they usually make you wait 24 hours. So sign up and then once you get posting privileges you can plead your case. I will include what I wrote on my last post. Feel free to use as much or little of my letter as you like. A couple of things we recommend. Keep it professional, factual, and consistent with the forum rules. As we know GOABC is defending their business using legal avenues where necessary. So don't post any hearsay or do anything that will run you afoul of the law.

I used the title "Hunting in BC Canada? Please consider not booking." Something to that effect may work for you. Also, be sure to post it in an area where foreign hunters will look. I have avoided the Gen Discussion areas. But anything referring to foreign hunts will work. If nothing shows up there, try Sheep Hunting as that is where the big dollars are for GOABC.

Also, when posting, remember that we are having issues with what the government and GOABC have done. Some guides in BC aren't supportive of GOABC tactics and are sympathetic to our plea as res hunters. So we have referred to GOABC in our posts. Lastly encourage them to go to HBC site for more information.

Thanks again for your efforts Mo. Here is my letter for reference:

Dear fellow hunters,

I am a B.C. resident hunters and have been let down by my government. The GOABC (guide outfitters of B.C.) have succesfully lobbied the government of B.C. to dramatically increase their quota on certain species (big dollar animals) at the expense of the resident hunter. 40 % of sheep/grizzly and goat in the north have been allocated to the outfitters of the GOABC and up to 25 % of other species. Considering that the average allotment to non residents in the USA and Canada is between 5-10 % this hurts. We are concerned about the future of hunting for our children when commerical interest takes precedent over the citizens interest. We can't match the financial contributions to the government that the GOABC makes and we don't have the ability to sway government policy in the same organized manner of a consortium, such as the GOABC. What we do have is thousands of betrayed hunters with fire in our belly.

What I ask of you, my American brothers is to ask yourself how would you feel or react if a decision was made such as this in your state? Would you sit idly by or would you do something about it? PLEASE, we respectfully ask, that you do not book any hunts with members of the GOABC at the Reno convention next week or at any other time until this issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the B.C. residents. Remember the Yukon has stones sheep as well. For those interested in a bighorn hunt Alberta offers excellent guided opportunities.

Any individuals that is a member of a local fish and game club we encourage you to share this information with your fellow hunters. Anyone that is interested on more information on this travesty please contact me via pm or my email at bcreshunt@gmail.com.

If you do happen to find yourself on a guided hunt in B.C. this year, have no fear, you will be welcomed by the B.C. resident hunter as hunter and friend with common shared interests and values, however the man sitting beside you on the horse may have a very frosty welcome from this hunter. We do look forward to resolving this issue so that all of us can enjoy the amazing wildlife resource BC has to offer.

Please take some time to educate yourself on this issue by visiting the huntingbc.ca site and reading the various threads.

Finally, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they may engage us residents with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.

[two-feet]

Ok thanks KJS. I will draft something up and post it in the two states that have been assigned to me. I will post it here as well for other members to reference. Keep fighting the good fight!

[tripleseven]

Hit these as well.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=register2

http://www.huntandfishmontana.com/

I will do the hunting-washington.com one!

[tripleseven]

Hi Mo,

Yes, you will need to sign up as a forum member to the other sites. It may take a while to sign up as they usually make you wait 24 hours. So sign up and then once you get posting privileges you can plead your case. I will include what I wrote on my last post. Feel free to use as much or little of my letter as you like. A couple of things we recommend. Keep it professional, factual, and consistent with the forum rules. As we know GOABC is defending their business using legal avenues where necessary. So don't post any hearsay or do anything that will run you afoul of the law.

I used the title "Hunting in BC Canada? Please consider not booking." Something to that effect may work for you. Also, be sure to post it in an area where foreign hunters will look. I have avoided the Gen Discussion areas. But anything referring to foreign hunts will work. If nothing shows up there, try Sheep Hunting as that is where the big dollars are for GOABC.

Also, when posting, remember that we are having issues with what the government and GOABC have done. Some guides in BC aren't supportive of GOABC tactics and are sympathetic to our plea as res hunters. So we have referred to GOABC in our posts. Lastly encourage them to go to HBC site for more information.

Thanks again for your efforts Mo. Here is my letter for reference:

Dear fellow hunters,

I am a B.C. resident hunters and have been let down by my government. The GOABC (guide outfitters of B.C.) have succesfully lobbied the government of B.C. to dramatically increase their quota on certain species (big dollar animals) at the expense of the resident hunter. 40 % of sheep/grizzly and goat in the north have been allocated to the outfitters of the GOABC and up to 25 % of other species. Considering that the average allotment to non residents in the USA and Canada is between 5-10 % this hurts. We are concerned about the future of hunting for our children when commerical interest takes precedent over the citizens interest. We can't match the financial contributions to the government that the GOABC makes and we don't have the ability to sway government policy in the same organized manner of a consortium, such as the GOABC. What we do have is thousands of betrayed hunters with fire in our belly.

What I ask of you, my American brothers is to ask yourself how would you feel or react if a decision was made such as this in your state? Would you sit idly by or would you do something about it? PLEASE, we respectfully ask, that you do not book any hunts with members of the GOABC at the Reno convention next week or at any other time until this issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the B.C. residents. Remember the Yukon has stones sheep as well. For those interested in a bighorn hunt Alberta offers excellent guided opportunities.

Any individuals that is a member of a local fish and game club we encourage you to share this information with your fellow hunters. Anyone that is interested on more information on this travesty please contact me via pm or my email at bcreshunt@gmail.com.

If you do happen to find yourself on a guided hunt in B.C. this year, have no fear, you will be welcomed by the B.C. resident hunter as hunter and friend with common shared interests and values, however the man sitting beside you on the horse may have a very frosty welcome from this hunter. We do look forward to resolving this issue so that all of us can enjoy the amazing wildlife resource BC has to offer.

Please take some time to educate yourself on this issue by visiting the huntingbc.ca site and reading the various threads.

Finally, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they may engage us residents with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.

I added the following:

"...non-residents in the USA and Canada is between 5-10 % this hurts.*********** To be clear, this allocation to guides is NOT from an abundance of game…these animals are being taken from the quota that had been assigned to resident hunters. In fact, we expect that the allocation for everyone will be reduced in coming years due to population concerns (especially on ungulates). This anticipated reduction of allocated animals compounds the impact of the larger % allocation for guides.************We are concerned about the future of hunting for our children.... "

here is my complete draft of the letter, for ease of use:

Dear fellow hunters,

I am a B.C. resident hunters and have been let down by my government. The GOABC (guide outfitters of B.C.) have successfully lobbied the government of B.C. to dramatically increase their quota on certain species (big dollar animals) at the expense of the resident hunter. 40 % of sheep/grizzly and goat in the north have been allocated to the outfitters of the GOABC and up to 25 % of other species. Considering that the average allotment to non-residents in the USA and Canada is between 5-10 % this hurts. To be clear, this allocation to guides is NOT from an abundance of game…these animals are being taken from the quota that had been assigned to resident hunters. In fact, we expect that the allocation for everyone will be reduced in coming years due to population concerns (especially on ungulates). This anticipated reduction of allocated animals compounds the impact of the larger % allocation for guides. We are concerned about the future of hunting for our children when commercial interest takes precedent over the citizens interest. We can't match the financial contributions to the government that the GOABC makes and we don't have the ability to sway government policy in the same organized manner of a consortium, such as the GOABC. What we do have is thousands of betrayed hunters with fire in our belly.

What I ask of you, my American brothers is to ask yourself how would you feel or react if a decision was made such as this in your state? Would you sit idly by or would you do something about it? PLEASE, we respectfully ask, that you do not book any hunts with members of the GOABC at the Reno convention next week or at any other time until this issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the B.C. residents. Remember the Yukon has stones sheep as well. For those interested in a bighorn hunt Alberta offers excellent guided opportunities.

Any individuals that is a member of a local fish and game club we encourage you to share this information with your fellow hunters. Anyone that is interested on more information on this travesty please contact me via pm or my email at bcreshunt@gmail.com.

If you do happen to find yourself on a guided hunt in B.C. this year, have no fear, you will be welcomed by the B.C. resident hunter as hunter and friend with common shared interests and values, however the man sitting beside you on the horse may have a very frosty welcome from this hunter. We do look forward to resolving this issue so that all of us can enjoy the amazing wildlife resource BC has to offer.

Please take some time to educate yourself on this issue by visiting the huntingbc.ca site and reading the various threads.

Finally, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they may engage us residents with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.

[Whonnock Boy]

One thing that is missing is the sheep on GOS in the kootenays, that many will believe to be to the detriment of the species.

[Sitkaspruce]

For all you who are posting on other sites, add this:

Have the hunters who come to hunt here in BC ask their outfitters where their $150 Hunting Preservation Fund is going to. Is it going to what they post on their web site, or going to grease the politicians palms. When I asked the VP about this, he refused to answer and shut up.

I posted something like this on Ambushes Bowsite post.

When I was guiding, the main locations hunters came from was the NW of the US; Wash, Oregon, California, Montana, Idaho and the east coast. The Big hunting shows are catering towards the crowd that has way too much and really don't give a crap about our fight. It is the blue collar workers who we need to alert and the smaller shows in the states are what attracts those hunters.

Cheers

SS

[Whonnock Boy]

Have the hunters who come to hunt here in BC ask their outfitters where their $150 Hunting Preservation Fund is going to. Is it going to what they post on their web site, or going to grease the politicians palms. When I asked the VP about this, he refused to answer and shut up.



SS

Remember, with that, if there is no proof, don't be getting yourself into trouble. With that said, why is it this is the first I have heard about this? Did I miss it?

[guest]

I'm all registered with my two sites and will

GET ER DONE !

Good ode work guys

[forestwalker]

Kawdy

I'd be happy to take two states, are the Dakotas and Wyoming still available?
Keep up the fight boys. Let me know and I'll register ASAP

Cheers
Rick

[kayjayess]

Kawdy

I'd be happy to take two states, are Montana and Wyoming still available?
Keep up the fight boys.

Cheers
Rick

Rick,

I believe Montana and Wyoming are still open. I will put you down for them. I am working on a spreadsheet with the various states to help keep this organized. I will post it when I get an opportunity.

Thanks for volunteering. Some great points above from WB & SS to add to your post as well. Thanks again for all the feedback. Look forward to hearing more from you.

[tripleseven]

Oregon ifish has been posted.....

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?p=9153370#post9153370

[Rob Chipman]

Kawdy:

Sorry about stealing AZ from you! I missed that you were hitting it. I just picked the two easy firsts.

Whonnock Boy:

If you're asking about the $150, the GOABC says, on their site:

"GOABC members in British Columbia charge their non-resident hunters a $150.00 grant. This grant is collected by the guide outfitter, held in-trust for GOABC and remitted at year end." and "The Hunting Preservation Fund (HPF) was established by GOABC to help ensure that non-residents will continue to have the opportunity to hunt in British Columbia, Yukon, NWT and Nunavut.".

That explanation could mean the money goes to buying habitat, for example, or paying biologists to study animals, or...grease the palms of politicians! :-)

That said, if you go to GOABC's website and look under Wildlife Stewrdship (http://www.goabc.org/wildlife-stewardship.aspx) there are several PDFs on game management. I've just started looking at them, so I'm reserving judgment, but they look interesting. I'm sure they will indicate what the GOABC really wants - more animals for everyone or a bigger slice of a diminishing pie.

[Daybreak]

At work and using Phone. Assign me any two states and I will look after them. Thanks.

[Rob Chipman]

Just took a quick look at the Hunting Washington.com forum and immediately noticed something interesting. They have an Outdoor Advocacy forum with several sticky posts on how to deal with anti-hunters, "the Dirty Dozen", lists of legislators, etc.

I think the idea of posting to other hunting forums is going to pay off with a lot of positive unintended consequences, i.e., we won't have to completely re-invent the wheel!

[kayjayess]

At work and using Phone. Assign me any two states and I will look after them. Thanks.

Daybreak,

You truly are a sucker for punishments using the iphone. Haha. Thanks for the offer. Can you take the Carolina's - North and South please.

Thanks for stepping up.

[kayjayess]

Just took a quick look at the Hunting Washington.com forum and immediately noticed something interesting. They have an Outdoor Advocacy forum with several sticky posts on how to deal with anti-hunters, "the Dirty Dozen", lists of legislators, etc.

I think the idea of posting to other hunting forums is going to pay off with a lot of positive unintended consequences, i.e., we won't have to completely re-invent the wheel!

Right on Rob,

If you feel you can, ask them to make your post a sticky as well. This is worth it IMO.

Any other posters, try doing the same. Once you have posted on the forum, try emailing the admin or probably a mod and request it be a sticky. A lot of these forums are grass roots organizations such as HBC and sympathetic to the resident hunter. Having said that some won't as they are getting ad dollars from to outfitting industry. The worst they can do is say no.

[Rob Chipman]

Alabama done: http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1212796&#Post1212796

Might be worth re-visiting Texas. THere are some engaged guys who aren't onside who seem convertible:
http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/5518800#Post5518800

[Whonnock Boy]

Might be worth mentioning that non resident hunting has declined in the last ten years by 30% in british columbia. Some might construe this to be an outfitter subsidy to sell more hunts to the detriment of our wildlife, and a diminishing quality of hunt by non residents visiting here. I'm awaiting approval to support your efforts.

[Daybreak]

Carolinas taken. Thanks KJ. I will get on it as soon as u get home from work . Nothing but diplomacy and respect will be posted.

[Daybreak]

As soon as I get home.

[Spy]

Are there any German speaking HBC members that can hit the sites in Germany?Or any European hunting site for that matter. Im going to hit the South African gun site, when everyone wakes up. My Uncle was a guest speaker at tbe GOABC convention a few years back, I will give him a call tomorrow and see if he is willing to help our efforts. Gatehouse maybe you can speak Proguide and ask him to put something on bis Face book pages "How to hunt". I will be there at the leg In Victoria in February for the protest lets get a thousand members for that. Has anyone started a thread on CGN yet.
Good job to all of you this is really heart warming to see us all coming together :-)

[kayjayess]

Alabama done: http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1212796&#Post1212796

Might be worth re-visiting Texas. THere are some engaged guys who aren't onside who seem convertible:
http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/5518800#Post5518800

Thanks Rob. Post has been made. I know a few of our colleagues are awaiting posting privileges to jump in and support our case. Thanks for the info WB and Deaddog.

[Whonnock Boy]

I have posted up a question on Jim shockeys FB page asking what his thoughts are. I'm not sure if my post was accepted as I was not "following" him when I posted it. 350 k following.... I believe Jim to be an honest man, and a thought provoking discussion will hopefully ensue. Insight from both sides would be welcome.

[forestwalker]

Rick,

I believe Montana and Wyoming are still open. I will put you down for them. I am working on a spreadsheet with the various states to help keep this organized. I will post it when I get an opportunity.

Thanks for volunteering. Some great points above from WB & SS to add to your post as well. Thanks again for all the feedback. Look forward to hearing more from you.

After further digging it looks like 180grainer has already claimed Montana, I'll work on Wyoming and the Dakotas. If it turns out he's not working on Montana, I'd be happy to take it.

Rick

[Salty]

Good work everyone


Nothing but diplomacy and respect will be posted.

That's the ticket just the facts

[Daybreak]

Registered at North Carolina site and awaiting permission to post. It said two days.

Registered at South Carolina and introduced myself as their site as requested with a brief description of our current situation. I will post details to them in the appropriate forum category once I have a chance to settle down and have my supper.

Could someone post the correct before and after allocation percentages so that I can be sure to pass on accurate information. It has been a long day and it would really help me. So many numbers have been thrown around up here.


Will be interesting to see if and how the Carolina's resident hunters respond. Thanks to those here who have channelled us in the right direction and united us in our progress towards rescinding the allocations.

[kayjayess]

Registered at North Carolina site and awaiting permission to post. It said two days.

Registered at South Carolina and introduced myself as their site as requested with a brief description of our current situation. I will post details to them in the appropriate forum category once I have a chance to settle down and have my supper.

Could someone post the correct before and after allocation percentages so that I can be sure to pass on accurate information. It has been a long day and it would really help me. So many numbers have been thrown around up here.


Will be interesting to see if and how the Carolina's resident hunters respond. Thanks to those here who have channelled us in the right direction and united us in our progress towards rescinding the allocations.

Good work. Thanks Daybreak. Yes, just like anything in life, if its worthwhile it probably is not easy. There will be adversity ahead. You can use some of the stats from previous posters on the other forums (there are links in this thread). Also, the BCWF has a press release on their website as well that you can use. If neither of them are adequate PM me and I will send you some information. I just don't have anything handy right now.

Thanks for helping on this. We did get some flack on the Texas forum, but some sound rebutals I think maybe won over some of the individuals. As was stated it won't all be smooth sailing, but this is a cause worth fighting for IMO.

Cheers
kayjayess

[forestwalker]

Hello guys and gals of this forum.


I’m coming to you from British Columbia with a issue of great importance, one which you may find one day soon on your own doorstep.


Very recently our liberal government decided to amend our provincial policy in regards to wildlife allocation in our province. The resulting changes have left the residents and hunters of BC. hopping mad. This post is part of a grassroots movement begun by the resident hunters of BC hoping to overturn these decisions and inform the public of the very real impacts they are certain to have on the people of BC. The British Columbia Wildlife Federation (BCWF) is our provincial volunteer conservation organization. Unfortunately, being a non-profit organization, the BCWF is unable to become involved in political efforts to the degree in which we are now faced. We aim to take up the issue in areas they are unable to go.


The Guide Outfitters Association of BC has been working with the BC government behind close doors to increase their yearly quotas. Without even bothering to involve the resident hunters of BC in their decision our government quickly amended past policy on allocation and GOABC have since had their quotas increased to 40% of the Grizzly, Goat and Sheep numbers and up to 25% of other species. Considering that the average allotment to non residents in the USA and Canada is between 5-10 % this hurts! This increase is not coming from an excess of animals but straight from the annual allowable harvest numbers allocated to the resident hunters of BC.


This brings me back to my opening statement. What is to stop your governments from following suit. Our campaign sees these decisions as setting an unfortunate precedent for further allocation changes in North America. Would you sit back and just settle for the scraps!


BC’s resident hunters, already hampered by strict quotas and regulations on most species, worry about the continued existence of hunting BC’s wilderness, we worry about our kids and the younger generations being able to live and hunt like our generation and past generations have done. When foreign and economic interests outweigh the needs and interests of residents everybody loses!


I must make sure you understand that in no way is our campaign affiliated with the BCWF. This is very important as our campaign headquarters, located on our largest hunting forum for BC hunters (huntingbc.ca) has already been threatened by legal aid with slander, undoubtedly by an angry and worried GOABC or affiliate. We do not want the BCWF facing the same accusations. We don’t have the resources the GOABC has at their disposal, but we do have thousands of really pissed off resident hunters ready to step up and reverse the decisions.


I’m speaking on behalf of the resident hunters of BC, we ask that you please refrain from booking guide trips with the GOABC until this dispute has been resolved to the satisfaction of BC residents. There are guiding outfits that are not aligned with the GOABC and do not support the decisions made. If you do decide to travel north you’ll be treated in a positive light, after all we’re all people of the same ilk and share the same values. Our battle is with the GOABC and our provincial government not the foreign clientele. Also, make sure to ask about what your $150 towards the hunting allocation fund actually goes towards.


Please take some time to educate yourself on this issue by visiting the huntingbc.ca site and reading the various threads.


Now as I suggested before, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they will engage with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completeness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.


If you have any questions I will be around to answer as best I can.


From your Northern brethren

This is the letter I plan to post on the Wyoming and Dakotas boards soon as my registration goes through. Let me know if there is anything to omit or something that should be changed.
Keep it up boys and girls
Cheers
Rick

[Daybreak]

Well written Forestwalker. Do we truly know that the lawyers are involved? I know Marc advised us that he has received communications from legal firms however do we know the source and who these lawyers are interested in protecting? Perhaps someone on our side of the debate sought legal support? I have been busy at work and have fallen behind in the news here.

I have no need to know anything more than what was posted by Marc; keep the posting accurate and in good faith.

Are we assuming the warning came from GOABC funded lawyers? If we are assuming I think it would be best to omit anything referring to possible legal action. I believe the mention of legal action may make people change the channel, tune out so to speak. Just a thought.


Otherwise excellent letter that should be well received. Thanks for it.

[kayjayess]

checked out numerous US sites today, lots of chatter about BC, great work guys. To those on both sides who "stirred" things up..... THANKS!!LOL

Yes, great work guys. Keep it up. They are talking now but we need to keep the momentum going. Today was an epic day. Let's see if we can get more volunteers tomorrow to take this fight to remaining states. Nice work Gate and PG66 working in the overseas stuff. It is crucial that we get the info out there now as this is their big booking season.

[Seeker]

Colorado is up

http://www.thecoloradohunter.com/content/planning-hunting-trip-bc-canada-please-avoid-booking-goabc

[kayjayess]

This is the letter I plan to post on the Wyoming and Dakotas boards soon as my registration goes through. Let me know if there is anything to omit or something that should be changed.
Keep it up boys and girls
Cheers
Rick[/QUOTE]

Rick,

Good work. Sorry for the mix up with the states. Thanks for sorting it out. It was my fault. I have a spread sheet started and will post it shortly.

Thanks again

[kayjayess]

We still need more volunteers to help out with this. Can we get anyone to step up and help us to spread the word of what is occurring with our Allocation Policy here in BC? The following list shows what is taken (✔) and what needs to be covered. Thanks in advance. If some of you have finished posting and can take a few more states that would be greatly appreciated.




Alabama

✔


Alaska




Arizona

✔


Arkansas




California

✔


Colorado

✔


Conneticut




Delaware




Florida

✔


Georgia

✔


Hawaii




Idaho




Illinois




Indiana




Iowa




Kansas




Kentucky




Louisiana




Maine




Maryland




Massachusettes



Michigan




Minnesota




Mississippi




Missouri




Montana

✔


Nebraska




Nevada

✔


New Hampshire



New Jersey




New Mexico
✔


New York

✔


North carolina
✔


North Dakota
✔


Ohio




Oklahoma

✔


Oregon

✔


Pennsylvania



Rhode Island



South carolina
✔


South Dakota
✔


Tennessee




Texas

✔


Utah

✔


Vermont




Virginia




Washington

✔


West Virginia



Wisconsin




Wyoming

✔

[Philcott]

Adding links to the petitions might be useful too.

Good work.

[two-feet]

Utah and Georgia got this: Do Not Hunt BC, Canada

Why would I say this about my beautiful province in Canada?

Our current Liberal government has recently changed its policy in regards to wildlife allocations. These changes put a huge amount of our wildlife into the hands of the guiding industry at the behest of the GOABC (guide outfitters of BC) and have left resident hunters, like myself, with less opportunity. Basically, our government has privatized wildlife and sold it to the highest bidder with no regards to the average working class citizens who pay for conservation of animals and stewardship of the land through our taxes.

The norm in North America is for 5-10% of game to be allocated to the guiding industry. The changes we are facing would put 40% of sheep/grizzly/mnt goat in the north to guides, and up to 25% of other species. These changes are NOT a result of surplus wildlife, we are actually in a downswing in game numbers at the moment. How would you feel if this was happening in your state? What if our province is setting a precedent?

I am a working guy and come from pioneer stock in Northern BC. I fear for the hunting future for my children. I have joined up with this grass roots movement to protect our heritage from a greedy provincial government and a well funded lobby group, the GOABC.

If you are considering booking a hunt in Canada, please educate yourself. There are guides in BC that do not belong to GOABC and do not support these allocation changes. Also remember, there are sheep in Yukon, Alberta and the North West Territories.

Finally, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they may engage us residents with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completeness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.

Thank You for your time

[two-feet]

And as a bonus I am reading a thread about a bison kill with a hand gun!

[forestwalker]

Utah and Georgia got this: Do Not Hunt BC, Canada

Why would I say this about my beautiful province in Canada?

Our current Liberal government has recently changed its policy in regards to wildlife allocations. These changes put a huge amount of our wildlife into the hands of the guiding industry at the behest of the GOABC (guide outfitters of BC) and have left resident hunters, like myself, with less opportunity. Basically, our government has privatized wildlife and sold it to the highest bidder with no regards to the average working class citizens who pay for conservation of animals and stewardship of the land through our taxes.

The norm in North America is for 5-10% of game to be allocated to the guiding industry. The changes we are facing would put 40% of sheep/grizzly/mnt goat in the north to guides, and up to 25% of other species. These changes are NOT a result of surplus wildlife, we are actually in a downswing in game numbers at the moment. How would you feel if this was happening in your state? What if our province is setting a precedent?

I am a working guy and come from pioneer stock in Northern BC. I fear for the hunting future for my children. I have joined up with this grass roots movement to protect our heritage from a greedy provincial government and a well funded lobby group, the GOABC.

If you are considering booking a hunt in Canada, please educate yourself. There are guides in BC that do not belong to GOABC and do not support these allocation changes. Also remember, there are sheep in Yukon, Alberta and the North West Territories.

Finally, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they may engage us residents with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completeness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.

Thank You for your time

Well said, short concise and to the point, that should go over well on those forums. Wish I was able to compact my thoughts as such
cheers
Rick

[forestwalker]

Well written Forestwalker. Do we truly know that the lawyers are involved? I know Marc advised us that he has received communications from legal firms however do we know the source and who these lawyers are interested in protecting? Perhaps someone on our side of the debate sought legal support? I have been busy at work and have fallen behind in the news here.

I have no need to know anything more than what was posted by Marc; keep the posting accurate and in good faith.

Are we assuming the warning came from GOABC funded lawyers? If we are assuming I think it would be best to omit anything referring to possible legal action. I believe the mention of legal action may make people change the channel, tune out so to speak. Just a thought.


Otherwise excellent letter that should be well received. Thanks for it.

that is a good question Daybreak, maybe kawdy or Kayjayess can answer that. This is what i have interpreted from the two of them regarding their letters posted on other forums.
i would actuallly like to know the source of legal aid that has threatened the users of this site. Is it known who sent that warning to mark and who it was on behalf of. I won't post that letter until i have confirmation on the accuracy of that statement. I am making the assumption that GOABC or a supporter were involved in these matters, who else could it be? but i should omit it being there is no proof.

Rick

[FirePower]

As no one on this site(owner/moderators) seems to be forth coming with much information about this letter from counsel representing "unknown" clients, and all the removed posts are GOABC related we can only assume the obvious. In my oppinion this is nothing more than harassment and scare tatics being used against the resident hunters. There is a very small likelyhood it is not directly from the council for the GOABC but as the saying goes "if you don't want to get dirty, don't lay down with swine" which may or may not apply here, you decide. Good work folks, my wife and I are currently using our connections in the overseas hunting community to spread the word.

[Buck]

Started a thread in Alaska hunting.Pretty much plagiarist you Two feet .But it is to the point.

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/145988-Don-t-hunt-BC-Canada

[two-feet]

Started a thread in Alaska hunting.Pretty much plagiarist you Two feet .But it is to the point.

Wait till I get my lawyer on this! Oh wait im not a slimeball....

[kayjayess]

Ok. Post up on 24Hourcampfire. I know some of HBCers are members over there so keep an eye on the thread and weigh in when needed. As many of us have learned the comments often in response are not positive, but with some education and explaining often most of them come around and are supportive.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/9485352#Post9485352

[Buck]

Getting some support in Alaska.

[Gamebuster]

Alabama done: http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1212796&#Post1212796

Might be worth re-visiting Texas. THere are some engaged guys who aren't onside who seem convertible:
http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/5518800#Post5518800

http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1213114#Post1213114

just looking at responses on some of these forums. seems Alabamans didn't like it and deletd it but did find this separate post in response to the original.

[HarryToolips]

Great work guys, and very good letter two feet..

[Wentrot]

Tough crowd on there lol

[Whonnock Boy]

Go back and educate. Seems there are a few that are interested. Probably got the boot because the one guy books hunts up here. Go get em'!

[Wentrot]

I signed up, will see if I can sway a mind or two

[Daybreak]

Please comment prior to my posting to the Carolinas;


BRITISH COLUMBIA HUNTERS ENRAGED

Resident Hunters in British Columbia have united and are up in arms over a recent change to provincial hunting policies.


The Liberal government has struck a deal with the Guide Outfitters Association of British Columbia, (GOABC), to sharply increase the guides allocation of hunting opportunity's at the expense of the resident hunters. While the industry standard across North America is approximately 5 - 10 % of hunts to the guides the GOABC has been gifted with 40% of Grizzly, 35% of Mt. Goat, as much as 25% of Moose, 20% of Bull Elk and a staggering 40% of Sheep.


The GOABC is comprised of approximately 250 members while the resident hunter count exceeds 120,000 people. It has now been determined that the GOABC "donated" over $100,000 to the Liberal party prior to inking the deal. That's .2% of the eligible hunters receiving as much as 40% of the available tags. The deal was announced two weeks before Christmas and many hunters feel that was done in an effort to have it go unnoticed or be forgotten before it can pass legislation in February of 2015.

Well it was noticed and has not been forgotten.

Resident hunters are enraged and have united like never before to voice their disapproval of the deal. From the southern most tip of Vancouver Island to the most northern and remote areas of the Muskwa Kechica hunters are speaking out and banding together to have the questionable "deal" rescinded.

Don't think for one minute that this deal resulted from a surplus of animals because in actuality many species are in decline, some seriously so.

The hunters have generations of conservation and stewardship of the resource in their families and many rely on these hunts to provide a healthy and traditional meal for their families.

It was noticed and the line has been drawn. Petitions and letters are flooding into politicians offices across the province. Phones are ringing and the hunters are angry.

If you are considering the services of a guide/outfitter for the coming season in BC we ask that you make an effort to utilise one of the many fine guides not affiliated with GOABC. They will happily accommodate you and provide a world class hunt and wilderness experience. Alternately, you could defer your plans until this issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the resident hunters. We do welcome you all to our province.

In closing I have to add, (legal obligations) that the facts and figures I have expressed may not be accurate and the opinions expressed are solely my own and do not represent the opinions of Hunting British Columbia or any one affiliated with the afore mentioned website.

Daybreak.

[Daybreak]

Correction to previous post completed.

[Buck]

Looks good fire it off

[Wentrot]

http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1213114#Post1213114

just looking at responses on some of these forums. seems Alabamans didn't like it and deletd it but did find this separate post in response to the original.

My request to join was turned down lol I assume due to being Canadian.

[kayjayess]

http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1213114#Post1213114

just looking at responses on some of these forums. seems Alabamans didn't like it and deletd it but did find this separate post in response to the original.

Fellow HBCers. Time to sign up to this forum and weight in. Come one - we need 20 guys to sign up and post, respectively on here

[Wentrot]

Fellow HBCers. Time to sign up to this forum and weight in. Come one - we need 20 guys to sign up and post, respectively on here

Request denied...

[Daybreak]

Posted letter from #136 of this thread to both N and S Carolina. Those sites can't hold a candle to Marc's! I could hear the crickets chirping through the computer. Posted a typical introduction of myself last night to S Carolina. 29 views not one comment or welcome. Maybe they all bad a bad year? LOL>

[f350ps]

Posted letter from #136 of this thread to both N and S Carolina. Those sites can't hold a candle to Marc's! I could hear the crickets chirping through the computer. Posted a typical introduction of myself last night to S Carolina. 29 views not one comment or welcome. Maybe they all bad a bad year? LOL>
There's probably another main more popular forum, kind of like here with the BS site and the HBC site, I'm sure they've got something goin on! I'll do some searching! K

[Whonnock Boy]

Download Hola. Easy to use VPN service. No risk, and it lets them know you are from the states.
http://hola.org/

Request denied...

[f350ps]

Download Hola. Easy to use VPN service. No risk, and it lets them know you are from the states.
http://hola.org/
Wow, I'm sure Chester the Molester loves this site! :) K

[Daybreak]

There's probably another main more popular forum, kind of like here with the BS site and the HBC site, I'm sure they've got something goin on! I'll do some searching! K

Thanks. Don't hesitate to cut and paste that letter anywhere any one feels it might get some attention. I hunt better than I type so that was painful.

[Salty]

Fellow HBCers. Time to sign up to this forum and weight in. Come one - we need 20 guys to sign up and post, respectively on here

A bunch of brand new first posters wouldn't bode well I wouldn't think

[f350ps]

Thanks. Don't hesitate to cut and paste that letter anywhere any one feels it might get some attention. I hunt better than I type so that was painful.
Found a few, waiting for the ok! K

[kayjayess]

Request denied...

Obviously we have had some adversity in our posts. We have to stay the course here and keep the pressure up. A few of the sites have presented some negative responses, but delicate rebuttals in many of the cases has elicited sympathy to our situation. I personally have had individuals PM me showing support from American sites not to mention encouraging words from some of the sites posted on in the US.

[Daybreak]

North Carolina is showing interest.

[kayjayess]

North Carolina is showing interest.

Good job Daybreak.

We are half way through the states. We need to continue to spread the word about the new Liberal Allocation Policy and how it will affect our future. This is far more important then putting your LEH cards in. Without this, submitting leh cards might, in my opinion, be a fait accompli - pointless, as the odds are akin to Kamloops sheep.

I admire the individuals that have stood up to this in the face of adversity.

[forestwalker]

North Dakota up and running, still waiting on approval in Wyoming and South Dakota

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=147434

Rick

[kayjayess]

HBCers,

It appears that things have quieted down on HBC with respect to the allocation issue and our pursuit for justice. Today was a good day for our fight with Jesse representing us well on CKNW. It seems that a letter from a lawyer can garner some attention and has done wonders to silence our group to some degree. I believe the appetite is still there but fear of legal ramifications certainly has subdued even the most vocal. I think your concerns are warranted, but should we stop our pursuit for justice?

I too, after the recent legal threat and a PM from a fellow forum member, had concerns. I contacted my law firm this morning and Kawdy, myself, and another HBCer were put in touch with a senior lawyer specializing in libel and slander. We received legal advice on the posts that we (Kawdy and myself) have made in the past, this information campaign we are undertaking in the US, as well as other issues surrounding what we are trying to achieve, and after that meeting I am more than comfortable to continue what we are doing.

I am in no way offering legal advice, as I am not qualified, but I personally am comfortable with continuing to share our message to our American friends and other foreigners considering guided hunts in our great province. With that in mind I have picked up Maryland and started a thread there: http://easternshoreman.com/forum/hunting/5235-thinking-of-hunting-in-canada-please-read#5235. Please lend support here and elsewhere as needed.

We do need to continue this process. I personally would do every state myself, but to be honest I am working on various other avenues in this battle and could use the help. Any takers?

[Spy]

Im in ;-)

[pete_k]

Sent another 8 letters today.
85 MLA's in this province. (email addys here - https://www.leg.bc.ca/mla/3-1-7.htm )

[kayjayess]

Im in ;-)

Great thanks for that Spy. Can you do Iowa and Michigan? The list is dwindling now. A few more volunteers and we will have canvassed most of the USA. We are in touch with an individual off the site who we have approached regarding Germany.

Thanks again Spy.

[kayjayess]

Sent another 8 letters today.
85 MLA's in this province. (email addys here - https://www.leg.bc.ca/mla/3-1-7.htm )

Outstanding work.

[pete_k]

Kayjayess. What's the story behind that quote in your sig line? From where?

[kayjayess]

Kayjayess. What's the story behind that quote in your sig line? From where?

It was on Bill Bennett's fb page. Somebody on hbc has a picture of it. Someone else asked me for it Recently. Can someone please post that picture of the response from his Facebook page?

[Whonnock Boy]

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10928856_1528137767468386_7606898597423467284_n.jp g?oh=5d2a8669d4874d2ed1c6f671eec6b58c&oe=553E1DAE

[kayjayess]

http://residentpriority.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/BillBennettFacebookQuote.jpg

http://residentpriority.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/BillBennettFacebookQuote.jpg

Thank you for that.

[1899]

LOL...I was trying to post that and didn't know how to do it. Thanks - it should be stickied somehow so that everyone can read just how arrogant he is. I wonder if the media has picked up on that quote yet.

[Spy]

Great thanks for that Spy. Can you do Iowa and Michigan? The list is dwindling now. A few more volunteers and we will have canvassed most of the USA. We are in touch with an individual off the site who we have approached regarding Germany.

Thanks again Spy.
I will get on it tomorrow when I have some time. Lets keep it up :-)

[luckofthedraw]

This is an excellent post. Love the support from the HBC members. I struggle with the amount of knowledge a lot of you have on this topic but if you want me to sign up for a few states and I can copy someones letter I'll help out where needed.

Another avenue might be to have a well made video to share to youtube. One that we can post/share on other social media sites to get the word around. I have seen some very good videographers on here, and it could almost turn into a free commercial.

[kayjayess]

This is an excellent post. Love the support from the HBC members. I struggle with the amount of knowledge a lot of you have on this topic but if you want me to sign up for a few states and I can copy someones letter I'll help out where needed.

Another avenue might be to have a well made video to share to youtube. One that we can post/share on other social media sites to get the word around. I have seen some very good videographers on here, and it could almost turn into a free commercial.

That is an excellent idea. If we could find anyone to undertake that project it would certainly be a great resource for explaining the BC resident hunter position. Unfortunately I don't have the skill set to pull that off.

Excellent luckofthedraw. Thanks for stepping up. Connecticut and Delaware? Feel free to have a look at a few of the various examples being used listed above. Have a look at my most recent link to a thread in the Maryland forum for some ideas. If you are comfortable with the material I don't mind you using the content.

Thanks again for for stepping up.

[two-feet]

Im no wordsmith, but if anyone wants to use the letter that i put up feel free. Its around page 12 of this thread

[Salty]

They can try to silence disagreement all they want and I welcome them showing their real stripes I agree DD this has nothing but add fuel to the fire that's burning around their ankles. They may quieten a few temporarily but they're going to be busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest trying to do it. The information, the truth, is out to a critical mass and then some now and more and more people will just step up if ever needed.

[Philcott]

A video rant along the lines of R. Mercer might fly on youtube.

[luckofthedraw]

Connecticut is done, although not getting many views thus far. Delaware doesn't seem to be a very active forum, but I'm happy to help out.

I really feel the video could go a long way with social media. R.Mercer type or not. It would just need to be well put together and short/to the point. I wish I had the skills to take on the task.

[Paulyman]

How about promoting yukon and Alberta as hunting destinations. Once a certain unamed guide organization realizes that their bottom line may be affected because of their greed they might be more likely to stop being so greedy.

[kayjayess]

How about promoting yukon and Alberta as hunting destinations. Once a certain unamed guide organization realizes that their bottom line may be affected because of their greed they might be more likely to stop being so greedy.

Good idea. In my posts in the U.S. I have been pointing out the tremendous opportunity for Stone's Sheep in Yukon and Bighorn in Ab. This has resonated with some forum users and precipitated some to contact me requesting information on other guided outfits outside BC. While I haven't told them to avoid booking in BC I have asked them to consider all the facts and ask themselves if they are comfortable booking their hunts in BC until this allocation issue has been resolved. The support in the US for the most part has been incredibly strong for the BC Resident Hunter.

[kayjayess]

Connecticut is done, although not getting many views thus far. Delaware doesn't seem to be a very active forum, but I'm happy to help out.

I really feel the video could go a long way with social media. R.Mercer type or not. It would just need to be well put together and short/to the point. I wish I had the skills to take on the task.

Video would be be great but a lot of work and well beyond what I am capable of. Are you good with a camera?

Thanks for putting the effort in to complete those posts. If you are willing I have a few more States needing attention. Thanks again luckofthedraw.

[kawdy]

Great effort everyone. With regards to the forum blast. I think regardless of the number of responses, we are still getting the message out and creating dialogue all over the US. Make no mistake this has not gone unnoticed by the GOABC, and will effect decisions on where to book a hunt in the future. That is why Kayjayess, tripleseven and I a met with a very expensive and capable lawyer to seek his advice on this forum blast. As Kayjayess said, we have no concerns with continuing this effort.

We are collectively effecting change, if there was any doubt, just re-read Bill Bennett's latest press release. I chuckled when he claimed to be angry over the allocation quota change. Wasn't he one the architects of this change.

It's nice to see a politician squirm.

We are making great progress on various fronts, including a Southern Vancouver Island town hall meeting. A structure is forming to set up a protest for opening day of the legislature or within a couple of days of the opening. We are very excited about the media campaign that is starting to take shape. We have secured some funding but we may be asking everyone here to contribute. We will put out an official request when the time comes. I have been working feverishly behind the scenes trying to make things happen, which is why I have been noticeably absent from these forums. Thankfully Kayjayess (close friend) is able to squeeze 48 hours into 1 day. I may have to offer him first crack at that 40" stoner.

Be heartened, there are a number of other very capable individuals absent on these forums working on all our behalf's. We could still use some volunteers who haven't stepped forward yet, such as helping organize events like the protest and town hall meeting.

stay tuned for more,

[benevs]

in case anyone didn't pick up the paper today here's the province article.

http://www.theprovince.com/technology/Pissed+minister+Bill+Bennett+says+government+will+ have+change+hunting+policies/10709927/story.html

[pete_k]

Thanks for the link.
A little bit of headway.
I've always liked Bill Bennett. I enjoyed his frankness on issues that no other politician would touch. But his FB quote really broadsided me.
Good to see he's not above admitting he and his party were wrong and he's pressing to re-visit the entire steaming mess.

Anyone read or hear from our Premier yet? Or know her stance?

[1899]

Thanks for the link.
A little bit of headway.
I've always liked Bill Bennett. I enjoyed his frankness on issues that no other politician would touch. But his FB quote really broadsided me.
Good to see he's not above admitting he and his party were wrong and he's pressing to re-visit the entire steaming mess.

Anyone read or hear from our Premier yet? Or know her stance?

You've seen his true colours now. And it isn't the first time. Remember what happened in 2007.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

On thing for sure it that we all have learned 'who' we cannot trust.

Once trust is broken it is very, very hard to restore.

SSS

[luckofthedraw]

Video would be be great but a lot of work and well beyond what I am capable of. Are you good with a camera?

Thanks for putting the effort in to complete those posts. If you are willing I have a few more States needing attention. Thanks again luckofthedraw.

Nope definitely no good with a camera, sorry. Are any of the states left major players as far as BC is concerned? Connecticut only has 35 views so far, and I'm sure I'm half a dozen of those.

[Seeker]

The Colorado website is stupid slow, I asked the gent at Elknuts, but wasn't receptive to having us post,but he recommended Rokslide and A/T. Rokslide has already been addressed(good work) and I am looking into the other.

[Salty]

Time to refresh/start the dialogue on other forums with the latest developments (door slammed in our face) about the Allocation Policy in the media and on forums abroad.