Common goals = more wildlife

[Mooseman]

Just to make sure people are clear about my thoughts re. the BCWF and GOABC

The BCWF is an essential organization to offer a home for British Columbia’s resident hunters and others. The grass roots concept that is the makeup of the organization is a great one that will stand the test of time. The membership numbers fluctuate with issues and circumstances. People come and go as they see benefits by belonging or not. That is the nature of the beast with any organization.

With over 40.000 members (as per BCWF website) one would want to congratulate that support. That is a good number and it has lots of room to grow. As is happening and that is a good thing.

There is no questionthat the BCWF is the representative voice for the BC resident hunter. I absolutely support everything they stand for in their mission statement and many other things. We guides have supported many local clubs over the times and will continue to do so in to the future as well. I personally have lots of friends; staff and many other people that I respect and that are very involved in the local clubs and the BCWF. I will always support the great things they do whenever and however I can. When asked to support the clubs in the Omineca in the past, I always did. We had joint fundraisers and projects over the years. This is true throughout the province. We disagree on issues from time to time but most of the time we all have the betterment of the wildlife at heart and that’s what is important.



My vision/prediction for the future:

British Columbia is the greatest place on earth!
There is no question in my mind that anyone here would question that. I truly believe this is the reason many of us hunters here are so passionate. We value what we experience when we sit by the campfire, when we hear that moose grunt or elk bugle or when we lay awake at night and listen to the wolves howl, when we hike in seemingly endless mountains or paddle the canoe down a lake as the loon calls.
What we see in our kids’ eyes as they shoot their first grouse or catch that first trout, is something we don’t talk enough of.

BC offers so much value and gives us such quality in our lives and has opportunities that are unmatched on the planet. I am sad at times when I get reminded by clients from time to time what we have here in BC. It makes me realize what I take for granted. That is the sad part. We become numb to what is great about this place. Shame on us. That was not always the case for me. I think back to when I was in BC for the first time as a 12 year old kid with my dad. He was here on a guided hunt and took me out of school to join him on his adventure. We flew in to this lake where I stayed at a log cabin by the lake, roamed around to hunt grouse and paddled the canoe down the lake to catch some trout for dinner. I can still smell that smoke that came from that cabins chimney as it was gliding over the surface of the lake.

When it comes right down to it, it just is in our DNA. And that cannot be explained easily. The other day someone asked me “Why are hunters all so driven and passionate?” That made me think. My immediate answer was that we as hunters have it in our natural instinct to reach a 100% every time or we will die. If in the olden day’s one depended on getting a moose for the winter, 99% success would have killed him and his family. When you fall in the river and make it to shore you need to get a fire going 100% or you’re dead. But in addition to this we just love what we see, hear, feel and smell when we are out there hunting so much, that it just becomes who we are. Or better, we discover what we are. We are hunters! We don’t just do, “we are”!

The BC resident hunters with the BCWF and the guide outfitters with the GOABC have lots in common. Once the debate of the sharing of the pie is over, that will be the day of a new beginning. That day will be “THE TURNING POINT”.

As I mentioned above, it is my vision and prediction for the reasons that “we are” hunters that we will one day join efforts to look after our values. Because they are the same.

People can insult, call names and make accusations. None of that will matter or change where we are headed. The wise voices will prevail and the undercurrents and the natural draw to conserve the things we as hunters value will become the common goal.
I would like to dedicate this thread to finding and working on common goals. Any attempt that will take this discussion in to a negative and divisive direction should be seen as anti hunting and against the wellbeing of wildlife and habitat in British Columbia and I would like to ask the moderators to help with that vision. If you disagree feel free to delete this. I will continue my efforts no matter what.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

You think you can post this bs and then tell people that they can't react to it? You really have lost touch with reality.

SSS

[kebes]

Last time resident hunters tried to find common ground with the goabc we got bent over a barrel. If you want to work together you can start by going to the government and insisting they rework the allocation policy; until then I say no thanks.

[Daybreak]

I consider your verbose post nothing but a poor attempt to push the real allotment issues off the page. We do not need someone telling stories of yore and trying to romanticise hunting in an effort to cloud the issue. If you want to hold someone's hand and sing Koom-ba-ya go visit your GOABC peers.

[Gateholio]

Ha. Another humour thread. :)

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I'm sure the BCWC would love to work together with the GOABC if they conducted themselves in an honourable fashion.

[guest]

Mooseman quote

what is not OK
A BUNCH OF RADICALS, INFLUENTIAL PEOPLE OUT TO ELIMINATE THE GUIDE INDUSTRY IN BC.

Correct me me if I am wrong, the majority of us on here are not ever saying there is not a place for the Guiding a Industry in BC.

What at we ARE ASKING FOR IS WILDLIFE ALLOCATION TO BE IN LINE WITH THE REST OF NORTH AMERICAN STANDARDS be it 10 %.

AS BC RESIDENTS HUNTERS AND NON HUNTERS ALIKE we will do all we can to protect as CHRISTY CLARK HAS QUOTED HERSELF " WE WANT TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR ALL BRITISH COLUMBIANS "

Mr. THomson has completely misrepresented the common message of BRITISH COLUMBIANS ........

BC IS NOT FOR SALE ........

[Wentrot]

Lol c'mon man

[Gateholio]

The radicals that really seem to want to eradicate guides in BC are the people running GOABC.

They are just too shortsighted to see that.

[TARCHER]

Nice try mooseman. My prediction is if you and the GOABC pull this one off you will continue down your greedy road for more pie, all in the name of money.

[Ferenc]

You cut a deal...started a thread about it.. Bailed and now your back ....

[Ambush]

Do you think it is fair or "working together" to have residents gated out of a large, moose rich piece of public land?

[Piperdown]

Keep patting yourself on the back

[f350ps]

Hahahahaha..........what a piece of work! I for one am glad you posted this shit, it'll just rile up a few more hunters, thanks! K

[Lillypuff]

Wow you drinking today? Sorry man I use to have respect for the industry. This crap has lost my respect. Greed and ego will kill the industry and you guys are half way there. Just let the egos get involved a little more and you guys will be on your way!
I can remember as a young hunter dreaming about owning an outfit but the further I looked into the less I wanted it. I did the guide thing and what a joke the outfitter was to work for.

Give your a head a shake

[Blk Arrow]

People on both sides of this issue have made inflammatory statements. Looking in the mirror is often the best place to start when you have issues with someone.

One may choose from the following as per your beliefs.
“What goes around comes around”
Karma
“As ye sow, so shall ye reap”.


It comes down to how far people are willing to back up when pushed. You can push people little by little and they might not notice for a while. Then someone finally looks up and sees where they started from!
A line in the sand has been crossed and unless someone backs up soon, there may be a lot unforeseen consequences. Hopefully it won't be at the expense of wildlife.

[Mooseman]

agreed, BC is best served by a healthy , vibrant outfitting community along with BCWF speaking for the majority of resident hunters. I would like to point out that the vast majority of people posting are not intent on destroying the outfitting community. out of respect for your post, i will leave the differences we have to different threads. That said, we will not be able to work together until a resolution that residents can live with is found

Thanks Jim, Yours is the only post I can actually see as a honest effort. I agree that the allocation issue has to be behind us first. I think I said so in my post.

Looking forward working with SCWA.

[guest]

Thanks Jim, Yours is the only post I can actually see as a honest effort. I agree that the allocation issue has to be behind us first. I think I said so in my post.

Looking forward working with SCWA.

If your so HONEST as to say this

So why dont YOU Get some GUTS TO STAND UP AND BE HEARD ....... ASK the GOABC FOR MORE TALKS WITH Officials ...... THIS IS A BAD DEAL FOR BC RESIDENTS overall ...... Most non resident Hunters are here for nothing but Trophy heads and hides...... the GOVERNMENT has made a mistake it can fix .... Look to a more acceptable and Standard Quota North American Wide.. BE RESPECTFUL .... SIT BACK DOWN ! Save face ....

THE GOABC GREED IS COMPLETELY CLEAR ....
ALSO
GOVERNMENT HAS NOT EVEN LISTENED TO ITS OWN BIOLOGISTS AND MANAGERS REGION SPECIFIC.

BC IS NOT FOR SALE

Stay Strong, Stay Together.

CT

[Bugle M In]

If GOABC goes back to the previous allocations, I will continue to live with GO's in BC.
But as it stands now, I have no use for any support towards any GO's in BC.
And no, this won't go away...not for me.
My days of out hunting may be numbered, but not for my children or my friends children, nor for other residents that deserve the right to hunt in BC for the future.

It's not just about me!

And ya, Gatehouse is right...just another humour thread!

[Whonnock Boy]

What is not ok:
A hand full of radical, influential, intelligent individuals have a vision for BC that does not include guide outfitting. They have influenced and are misusing the BCWF as their vehicle to advance that hidden agenda. They have lost their way and are not acting in good faith. They are acting contrary to the mission the BCWF stands for. They have used deception, lies, accusation, generalizations, twisting facts and numbers to make people believe that what they are doing is the right thing to do and that the guide outfitters in BC and the GOABC is the enemy. They feel that eliminating the guide outfitting industry in BC, will give hunters better opportunities. They are wrong. In many ways than one.




Is this guy for real?

Mooseman, maybe it's time you look within, and scrutinize your peers....

[.300WSMImpact!]

Just to make sure people are clear about my thoughts re. the BCWF and GOABC

The BCWF is an essential organization to offer a home for British Columbia’s resident hunters and others. The grass roots concept that is the makeup of the organization is a great one that will stand the test of time. The membership numbers fluctuate with issues and circumstances. People come and go as they see benefits by belonging or not. That is the nature of the beast with any organization.

With over 40.000 members (as per BCWF website) one would want to congratulate that support. That is a good number and it has lots of room to grow. As is happening and that is a good thing.

There is no questionthat the BCWF is the representative voice for the BC resident hunter. I absolutely support everything they stand for in their mission statement and many other things. We guides have supported many local clubs over the times and will continue to do so in to the future as well. I personally have lots of friends; staff and many other people that I respect and that are very involved in the local clubs and the BCWF. I will always support the great things they do whenever and however I can. When asked to support the clubs in the Omineca in the past, I always did. We had joint fundraisers and projects over the years. This is true throughout the province. We disagree on issues from time to time but most of the time we all have the betterment of the wildlife at heart and that’s what is important.

What is not ok:
A hand full of radical, influential, intelligent individuals have a vision for BC that does not include guide outfitting. They have influenced and are misusing the BCWF as their vehicle to advance that hidden agenda. They have lost their way and are not acting in good faith. They are acting contrary to the mission the BCWF stands for. They have used deception, lies, accusation, generalizations, twisting facts and numbers to make people believe that what they are doing is the right thing to do and that the guide outfitters in BC and the GOABC is the enemy. They feel that eliminating the guide outfitting industry in BC, will give hunters better opportunities. They are wrong. In many ways than one.


My vision/prediction for the future:

British Columbia is the greatest place on earth!
There is no question in my mind that anyone here would question that. I truly believe this is the reason many of us hunters here are so passionate. We value what we experience when we sit by the campfire, when we hear that moose grunt or elk bugle or when we lay awake at night and listen to the wolves howl, when we hike in seemingly endless mountains or paddle the canoe down a lake as the loon calls.
What we see in our kids’ eyes as they shoot their first grouse or catch that first trout, is something we don’t talk enough of.

BC offers so much value and gives us such quality in our lives and has opportunities that are unmatched on the planet. I am sad at times when I get reminded by clients from time to time what we have here in BC. It makes me realize what I take for granted. That is the sad part. We become numb to what is great about this place. Shame on us. That was not always the case for me. I think back to when I was in BC for the first time as a 12 year old kid with my dad. He was here on a guided hunt and took me out of school to join him on his adventure. We flew in to this lake where I stayed at a log cabin by the lake, roamed around to hunt grouse and paddled the canoe down the lake to catch some trout for dinner. I can still smell that smoke that came from that cabins chimney as it was gliding over the surface of the lake.

When it comes right down to it, it just is in our DNA. And that cannot be explained easily. The other day someone asked me “Why are hunters all so driven and passionate?” That made me think. My immediate answer was that we as hunters have it in our natural instinct to reach a 100% every time or we will die. If in the olden day’s one depended on getting a moose for the winter, 99% success would have killed him and his family. When you fall in the river and make it to shore you need to get a fire going 100% or you’re dead. But in addition to this we just love what we see, hear, feel and smell when we are out there hunting so much, that it just becomes who we are. Or better, we discover what we are. We are hunters! We don’t just do, “we are”!

The BC resident hunters with the BCWF and the guide outfitters with the GOABC have lots in common. Once the debate of the sharing of the pie is over, that will be the day of a new beginning. That day will be “THE TURNING POINT”.

As I mentioned above, it is my vision and prediction for the reasons that “we are” hunters that we will one day join efforts to look after our values. Because they are the same.

People can insult, call names and make accusations. None of that will matter or change where we are headed. The wise voices will prevail and the undercurrents and the natural draw to conserve the things we as hunters value will become the common goal.
I would like to dedicate this thread to finding and working on common goals. Any attempt that will take this discussion in to a negative and divisive direction should be seen as anti hunting and against the wellbeing of wildlife and habitat in British Columbia and I would like to ask the moderators to help with that vision. If you disagree feel free to delete this. I will continue my efforts no matter what.

the province would be better to get rid of all for profit hunting, greed and politics

[Mooseman]

If your so HONEST as to say this

So why dont YOU Get some GUTS TO STAND UP AND BE HEARD ....... ASK the GOABC FOR MORE TALKS WITH Officials ...... THIS IS A BAD DEAL FOR BC RESIDENTS overall ...... Most non resident Hunters are here for nothing but Trophy heads and hides...... the GOVERNMENT has made a mistake it can fix .... Look to a more acceptable and Standard Quota North American Wide.. BE RESPECTFUL .... SIT BACK DOWN ! Save face ....

THE GOABC GREED IS COMPLETELY CLEAR ....
ALSO
GOVERNMENT HAS NOT EVEN LISTENED TO ITS OWN BIOLOGISTS AND MANAGERS REGION SPECIFIC.

BC IS NOT FOR SALE

Stay Strong, Stay Together.

CT

I really want to keep this discussion about building wildlife working on habitat and hunters values.... can we please keep the allocation posts at the allocation discussions?

[Ambush]

I understand that guiding is a business and that businesses have to gain any edge that they can in any market and particularly in a tough market.
I can also appreciate someone that can ethically strike a good bargain for themselves.

As a 35 year resident of PG , I do have some knowledge of some of the local outfitters and their territories. I hunt the same ground and I'm after the same animals. And I'm also a long time archery only hunter, so we share a commonality that gives rise to mutual casual acquaintances through related activities. I don't dislike you as a businessman or a person. But I do dislike feeling like I'm being taken advantage of. And I have that feeling now.

In most situations I'll let the other guy set the tone and then I respond in kind. Respect, fairness and honesty will net the same from me.

[Fisher-Dude]

What a friggin' joke.

You have some gall posting this bullshit, Schneider.

Here, have a laugh at this, too:

MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2011/04/30 $310.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2011/04/30 $25.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2011/04/30 $225.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2011/12/31 $200.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/03/31 $35.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/07/31 $200.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/07/31 $160.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/12/07 $130.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/12/31 $275.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2010/12/13 $1,000.00 5 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER CLARK, CHRISTY LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/01/14 $1,000.00 5 MICHAEL SCHNEIDER KEN WATSON ABBOTT, GEORGE MALCOLM LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/01/18 $1,000.00 3 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER FALCON, KEVIN LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/03/04 $375.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/03/04 $375.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/11/08 $1,000.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2013/06/03 $1,500.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY

[Mooseman]

I understand that guiding is a business and that businesses have to gain any edge that they can in any market and particularly in a tough market.
I can also appreciate someone that can ethically strike a good bargain for themselves.

As a 35 year resident of PG , I do have some knowledge of some of the local outfitters and their territories. I hunt the same ground and I'm after the same animals. And I'm also a long time archery only hunter, so we share a commonality that gives rise to mutual casual acquaintances through related activities. I don't dislike you as a businessman or a person. But I do dislike feeling like I'm being taken advantage of. And I have that feeling now.

In most situations I'll let the other guy set the tone and then I respond in kind. Respect, fairness and honesty will net the same from me.

Where am I taking advantage of you?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I really want to keep this discussion about building wildlife working on habitat and hunters values.... can we please keep the allocation posts at the allocation discussions?

Maybe you should have excluded your IMFLAMMATORY content in the original post. This is not the GOABC website. Including inflammatory content and then telling us not to respond to it was a nail in the coffin.

Hold up a mirror if you are asking why GOABC cannot work together with the resident hunters in this province to make more wildlife.

Donate...ask..receive...backdoor....deny. Here are a few keywords to assist you with you self evaluation.

SSS

[Ry151]

What a friggin' joke.

You have some gall posting this bullshit, Schneider.

Here, have a laugh at this, too:

MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2011/04/30 $310.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2011/04/30 $25.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2011/04/30 $225.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2011/12/31 $200.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/03/31 $35.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/07/31 $200.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/07/31 $160.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/12/07 $130.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
MICHAEL SCHNEIDER 2012/12/31 $275.00 1 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2010/12/13 $1,000.00 5 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER CLARK, CHRISTY LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/01/14 $1,000.00 5 MICHAEL SCHNEIDER KEN WATSON ABBOTT, GEORGE MALCOLM LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/01/18 $1,000.00 3 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER FALCON, KEVIN LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/03/04 $375.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/03/04 $375.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/11/08 $1,000.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2013/06/03 $1,500.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY

$7810, hummm. Like others have said, pre dec 10 I thought outfitters were a good thing but now I will go out of my way to not help them. Of course you want to grow wildlife so that you can get even more animals to sell off

[Mooseman]

Inflammatory = Yes
Untrue= No
Perhaps a bad idea to have it in this thread = Yes I agree with you. I will take it off.
Not to comment on it = Too much to ask...ok
Donate = Yes. We never said we didn't.
Ask = Yes
Receive = No (this is where we differ) perhaps this helps: http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/harvest_alloc/docs/2014/Wildlife-Allocation-Decision-2014-FAQ.pdf
Government meetings = Yes but no more than the BCWF
Deals = No
Deny = No

[coach]

Of course you want to grow wildlife so that you can get even more animals to sell off

Yup.. that's exactly the program.

[Ambush]

Where am I taking advantage of you?

I guess the short answer is in the number of allocations that I have a chance at winning in LEH. I am better off than most moose hunters, being an archery hunter and I would have to say that I have less to lose to you and your particular territory than some others. The unfortunate circumstance for you is your association with an association that has proven itself not to be forth-rite in it's dealings.

[burger]

You post, if genuine, very ill timed mooseman.

Still cant figure out the rational behind the post though. You want more wildlife, shoot we all do but still don't see how adding to your allocation will help wildlife at all. I mean I have read on this site many times how outfitters are better tuned to the animals (mostly from GO) and most resident are road hunter blah blah blah. How then if GO have more opportunity is that helping the numbers at all. Really don't see it. If the quantity of animals need to be increased, which I think they do, then wouldn't it be pertinent to reduce the "expert" hunters that the GO are supposed to be?

[Fisher-Dude]

How many resident hunters are willing to put their sweat and money into growing wildlife that foreigners will swoop in and take 40% (or close to 100% in R4 sheep) of?

Why didn't GOABC contribute to moose inventory funding when asked? Why did the region 8 BCWF clubs have to raise $50,000 on their own to do it?

[d6dan]

There is no question that the BCWF is the representative voice for the BC resident hunter.



And this is why I joined the BCWF 2 days ago. They are the only "voice" for us resident hunters.. Keep talkin' .......

[Fisher-Dude]

I wonder if $73,275 would have been better spent making more wildlife instead of greasing politicians for allocation handouts?


Total Contribution For This Search: $73,275.00

Records 1-49 of 49
Contributor Name Date Amount Class Principal Officer 1 Principal Officer 2 Filer Name Filer Type Affiliation Electoral District ED Boundary Established
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2010/11/23 $1,000.00 6 MIKE WERNER SCOTT ELLIS BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2010/11/23 $525.00 6 MIKE WERNER SCOTT ELLIS BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2010/12/16 $1,000.00 5 MIKE WERNER SCOTT ELLIS CLARK, CHRISTY LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2010/12/16 $1,000.00 5 CLYDE H SCOLLAN BRIAN SAVAGE DE JONG, MICHAEL LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2011/01/11 $1,000.00 5 DAVID BERANEK DAVE FYFE FALCON, KEVIN LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2011/01/14 $1,000.00 5 DAVID FYFE DEBBIE BEATTIE ABBOTT, GEORGE MALCOLM LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2011/11/08 $8,000.00 6 MIKE WERNER MIKE YOUNG BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2012/02/29 $850.00 6 MIKE WERNER MIKE YOUNG BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2012/04/13 $3,000.00 6 MIKE WERNER MIKE YOUNG BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2012/07/31 $25.00 6 MIKE WERNER MIKE YOUNG BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2012/10/31 $75.00 6 MIKE WERNER MIKE YOUNG BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2013/03/01 $2,500.00 6 MIKE WERNER MIKE YOUNG BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2013/03/28 $12,500.00 6 MIKE WERNER MIKE YOUNG BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC 2013/05/09 $2,500.00 6 MARK WARNER BRIAN GLAICAR DELUCA, DARREN FRANK CANDIDATE BC LIBERAL PARTY ALBERNI-PACIFIC RIM 2008
GUIDE OUTFITTERS OF CARIBOO 2013/04/30 $2,000.00 5 STUART MAITLAND SCOTT ELLIS BARNETT, DONNA CANDIDATE BC LIBERAL PARTY CARIBOO-CHILCOTIN 2008
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2010/12/13 $1,000.00 5 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER CLARK, CHRISTY LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/01/14 $1,000.00 5 MICHAEL SCHNEIDER KEN WATSON ABBOTT, GEORGE MALCOLM LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/01/18 $1,000.00 3 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER FALCON, KEVIN LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/03/04 $375.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/03/04 $375.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/11/08 $1,000.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2013/06/03 $1,500.00 6 KEN WATSON MICHAEL SCHNEIDER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH ISLAND GUIDE OUTFITTING LTD 2005/04/14 $500.00 2 IRENE FYFE BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTH ISLAND GUIDE OUTFITTING LTD 2005/05/11 $250.00 2 IRENE FYFE BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2005/04/26 $1,000.00 5 CHRIS SHIPPMANN DIXIE HAMMETE LEKSTROM, BLAIR MORGAN CANDIDATE BC LIBERAL PARTY PEACE RIVER SOUTH 1999
NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2005/05/05 $1,000.00 5 DAK DRINKALL DIXIE HAMMETT NEUFELD, RICHARD CANDIDATE BC LIBERAL PARTY PEACE RIVER NORTH 1999
NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2009/04/16 $1,000.00 5 DENNIS GEATTIE RAY JACKSON PIMM, PAT CANDIDATE BC LIBERAL PARTY PEACE RIVER NORTH 2008
NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2009/05/12 $1,000.00 6 DALE DRINKALL CHRIS SCHIPPMANN BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2011/02/23 $1,000.00 5 WENDY CARY AARON FREDLUND FALCON, KEVIN LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2013/03/28 $2,500.00 6 DAK DRINKALL DIXIE HAMMETT BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATON 2011/01/03 $1,000.00 5 LEIF OLSEN DIXIE HAMMETT CLARK, CHRISTY LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTHWEST GUIDES & OUTFITTERS ASSOCATION 2011/11/08 $1,000.00 6 DAVE HOOPER MIKE WERNER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTHWEST GUIDES & OUTFITTERS ASSOCATION 2013/06/05 $500.00 6 DAVE HOOPER MIKE WERNER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTHWEST GUIDES & OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/01/06 $500.00 5 CLYDE H SCOLLAN BRIAN SAVAGE DE JONG, MICHAEL LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTHWEST GUIDES & OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/01/13 $500.00 5 SONNY PERKINSON MIKE YOUNG CLARK, CHRISTY LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
NORTHWEST GUIDES & OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2011/03/30 $500.00 3 SONNY PERKINSON BRENDA NELSON FALCON, KEVIN LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2009/05/12 $2,500.00 6 STEVEN LEUENBERGER STEFANIE LEUENBERGER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2011/01/31 $500.00 5 STEVEN LEUENBERGER BRIAN GLAICAR CLARK, CHRISTY LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2011/02/08 $500.00 3 STEVEN LEUENBERGER DAVID BERANEK FALCON, KEVIN LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2011/02/27 $500.00 5 STEVEN LEUENBERGER DAVID BERANEK ABBOTT, GEORGE MALCOLM LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2011/11/08 $2,000.00 6 STEVEN LEUENBERGER STEFANIE LEUENBERGER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2012/06/29 $200.00 6 STEVEN LEUENBERGER STEFANIE LEUENBERGER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2012/08/23 $1,000.00 6 STEVEN LEUENBERGER STEFANIE LEUENBERGER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION 2012/09/29 $3,600.00 6 STEVEN LEUENBERGER STEFANIE LEUENBERGER BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
TROPHY WEST GUIDE OUTFITTERS LTD 2005/04/14 $500.00 2 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
TROPHY WEST GUIDE OUTFITTERS LTD 2005/05/11 $500.00 2 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
VANCOUVER ISLAND GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION 2010/12/13 $5,000.00 5 ERIC MIKKELSON DAVE FYFE CLARK, CHRISTY LEADERSHIP CONTESTANT BC LIBERAL PARTY
VANCOUVER ISLAND GUIDE OUTFITTERS INC 2005/05/17 $500.00 2 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY
VANCOUVER ISLAND GUIDE OUTFITTERS INC 2009/05/01 $500.00 2 BC LIBERAL PARTY POLITICAL PARTY BC LIBERAL PARTY

[burger]

I also don't quite understand how if your overall client numbers are down and resident hunter numbers are up how there should be a decrease in resident opportunity even by one LEH opportunity while the GO are increasing.

Don't care that 12 years ago you were given x amount of tags...that was 12years ago.

Remember that profits from game are last on the list behind FN and residents.

[Mooseman]

I guess the short answer is in the number of allocations that I have a chance at winning in LEH. I am better off than most moose hunters, being an archery hunter and I would have to say that I have less to lose to you and your particular territory than some others. The unfortunate circumstance for you is your association with an association that has proven itself not to be forth-rite in it's dealings.

Ok. I see. Please call Doug or others at the game branch and see what the chance reduction is compared to yesterday.....all the while when I am still down 60% of what I had before. That's why I reinvested to continue what I chose to do with my life.
Don't take my numbers as fact. Check with the people that actually make the numbers!

[Daybreak]

I really want to keep this discussion about building wildlife working on habitat and hunters values.... can we please keep the allocation posts at the allocation discussions?

Hunter Values? You think the allotment deal made by the GOABC doesn't involve hunter values?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

If I had that much spare cash to donate to a political party I surely would not be begging for more at the expense of resident hunters.

[GoatGuy]

Over the past 10 years I have been fortunate to be a part of a few plans and applications. Off the top of my head: moose vulnerability due to access, moose inventory region 8, habitat enhancement region 8, a burn plan for the thompson, mule deer survival in Region 4, mule deer survival in the Boundary. Some that happened, some that didn't - always people who cared about wildlife involved which made for a great "team". There are a bunch more projects.

While some outfitters have been involved and supportive, and KUDOS to them, GOABC did not support any of the projects mentioned - and yes you were asked to support some of those and never did. In some cases all it was was a letter of support; in others it was money. The lack of support was entirely political in nature. GOABC made a conscious decision not to support these projects because of "wildlife allocations" or some other frivolous excuse.

I understand money has suddenly been found for the mule deer project in Region 4 - more than a year after the proposal was written and after the project had already started and deer had been collared. No doubt to buy some political points with resident hunters in Region 4 after this GOS business. Because it is now "convenient". This reflects very poorly on the organization. It also will not help with the pressure placed on the trappers - that one will come home to roost as well and it will not be pretty.

This is all very telling. You spend $100,000 on a political party for wildlife allocations but cannot afford to put ink on a piece of paper for a letter of support to work on increasing wildlife. Now you are telling the resident hunter, "hey, let's get along and make more wildlife". You have made the resident hunter a convenience - it was convenient to turn down wildlife related projects for the last 7 years while you worked behind the scenes to increase your share. Now that you have increased your share the resident hunter is again convenient because the backlash has come full circle - you were probably also told by politicians "go away now" and that helped push you to "working to make more." People who show up at the door once every 10 years asking for a loaf of bread aren't called friends, they are called users.

I'm sure outfitters and residents will work together now and in the future. There are some great outfitters in the province - members of GOABC, and outfitters who are not GOABC members and who are keen to work on wildlife. As stated there have been outfitters who were supportive of those projects - it was GOABC that was not. Having said that, knowing the past and the level of integrity there will be some outfitters residents work with and some they don't. Working with someone who you know will stick a knife in your back the first chance they get is an impossible proposition.

When Jim refers to working with outfitters I can assure you without a shadow of doubt that does not include you. We do not share the same kinds of morals and ethics - wildlife projects are just that, not something where support is "held back" due to politics or this "tit for tat" business. Most people don't operate at that level. "Scratch my back and I will scratch yours" is not the way people should be carrying themselves but it is recognized that is the way many politicians do.

You burned that bridge and there was only one to be had. Don't think this is limited strictly to resident hunters - you have burned bridges with the Fish and Wildlife Branch as well with your narcissistic approach to wildlife management and wildlife related projects.

I will sum it up restating: there are some great outfitters - people who care about wildlife and will work for it. Those are the people who will move wildlife management forward in British Columbia. Not the people whose playbook comes straight from the MOB.

[coach]

If I had that much spare cash to donate to a political party I surely would not be begging for more at the expense of resident hunters.

Hard to believe the head of GOABC was crying on TV about his members having to take second jobs, getting divorced and losing businesses. Maybe political donations of that magnitude pushed some guys over the edge?

[Ovis17]

If I had that much spare cash to donate to a political party I surely would not be begging for more at the expense of resident hunters.
Amen......

[Mooseman]

You post, if genuine, very ill timed mooseman.

Still cant figure out the rational behind the post though. You want more wildlife, shoot we all do but still don't see how adding to your allocation will help wildlife at all. I mean I have read on this site many times how outfitters are better tuned to the animals (mostly from GO) and most resident are road hunter blah blah blah. How then if GO have more opportunity is that helping the numbers at all. Really don't see it. If the quantity of animals need to be increased, which I think they do, then wouldn't it be pertinent to reduce the "expert" hunters that the GO are supposed to be?

I agree about the timing but there is an urgency that will take all BCWF, BCTA and the GOABC to join forces on. If nothing else can be agreed on, we have an opportunity to do great things for BC wildlife right now. The people in the know know what I am talking about. But the allocation fight has to be over.

I really don't want to get in to explaining the policy on here........if you are sincere feel free to mail or message me.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

GG-Can I put a post that big in my sigline?

[Ambush]

I believe that government policy allowed guide territories to be over valued since the 2,000's. It's unfortunate that people bought those over valued businesses.

Perhaps it's time the government bought those un-viable businesses back and re-auctioned them. People could then buy them with more realistic goals in mind.

I am absolutely dead set against allowing foreign ownership of BC territories just to prop up untenable values.

[Fisher-Dude]

I agree about the timing but there is an urgency that will take all BCWF, BCTA and the GOABC to join forces on. If nothing else can be agreed on, we have an opportunity to do great things for BC wildlife right now. The people in the know know what I am talking about. But the allocation fight has to be over.

I really don't want to get in to explaining the policy on here........if you are sincere feel free to mail or message me.


Urgency? Why, you trying to inflate a population so you can cash in your outfits now that you have the massive allocation bought and paid for? Suck in some freebies from the residents you dry screwed to put more money in your pocket?

What a joke.

[Mooseman]

Over the past 10 years I have been fortunate to be a part of a few plans and applications. Off the top of my head: moose vulnerability due to access, moose inventory region 8, habitat enhancement region 8, a burn plan for the thompson, mule deer survival in Region 4, mule deer survival in the Boundary. Some that happened, some that didn't - always people who cared about wildlife involved which made for a great "team". There are a bunch more projects.

While some outfitters have been involved and supportive, and KUDOS to them, GOABC did not support any of the projects mentioned - and yes you were asked to support some of those and never did. In some cases all it was was a letter of support; in others it was money. The lack of support was entirely political in nature. GOABC made a conscious decision not to support these projects because of "wildlife allocations" or some other frivolous excuse.

I understand money has suddenly been found for the mule deer project in Region 4 - more than a year after the proposal was written and after the project had already started and deer had been collared. No doubt to buy some political points with resident hunters in Region 4 after this GOS business. Because it is now "convenient". This reflects very poorly on the organization. It also will not help with the pressure placed on the trappers - that one will come home to roost as well and it will not be pretty.

This is all very telling. You spend $100,000 on a political party for wildlife allocations but cannot afford to put ink on a piece of paper for a letter of support to work on increasing wildlife. Now you are telling the resident hunter, "hey, let's get along and make more wildlife". You have made the resident hunter a convenience - it was convenient to turn down wildlife related projects for the last 7 years while you worked behind the scenes to increase your share. Now that you have increased your share the resident hunter is again convenient because the backlash has come full circle - you were probably also told by politicians "go away now" and that helped push you to "working to make more." People who show up at the door once every 10 years asking for a loaf of bread aren't called friends, they are called users.

I'm sure outfitters and residents will work together now and in the future. There are some great outfitters in the province - members of GOABC, and outfitters who are not GOABC members and who are keen to work on wildlife. As stated there have been outfitters who were supportive of those projects - it was GOABC that was not. Having said that, knowing the past and the level of integrity there will be some outfitters residents work with and some they don't. Working with someone who you know will stick a knife in your back the first chance they get is an impossible proposition.

When Jim refers to working with outfitters I can assure you without a shadow of doubt that does not include you. We do not share the same kinds of morals and ethics - wildlife projects are just that, not something where support is "held back" due to politics or this "tit for tat" business. Most people don't operate at that level. "Scratch my back and I will scratch yours" is not the way people should be carrying themselves but it is recognized that is the way many politicians do.

You burned that bridge and there was only one to be had. Don't think this is limited strictly to resident hunters - you have burned bridges with the Fish and Wildlife Branch as well with your narcissistic approach to wildlife management and wildlife related projects.

I will sum it up restating: there are some great outfitters - people who care about wildlife and will work for it. Those are the people who will move wildlife management forward in British Columbia. Not the people whose playbook comes straight from the MOB.

Jesse, I wish you would have not taken this and made it personal and inflammatory. I took out my inflammatory comments. Jim does not have to do anything with me. North Central guides is represented by others. I will do my part to support and help where I can.

[burger]

I agree about the timing but there is an urgency that will take all BCWF, BCTA and the GOABC to join forces on. If nothing else can be agreed on, we have an opportunity to do great things for BC wildlife right now. The people in the know know what I am talking about. But the allocation fight has to be over.

I really don't want to get in to explaining the policy on here........if you are sincere feel free to mail or message me.


You should want to explain the policy on here. I look at this as a platform to show all us not in the know people what both sides of the coin look like. There is always an opportunity to do great things for wildlife but us laymen are not in the "know" as you put it so you should enlighten us. I have read on many other topics on here the BCWF side along with numbers. I have yet to see a comprehensive explanation of the GO previous numbers along with the latest numbers so we all can see clearly what is happening.

[Fisher-Dude]

Jesse, I wish you would have not taken this and made it personal and inflammatory. I took out my inflammatory comments. Jim does not have to do anything with me. North Central guides is represented by others. I will do my part to support and help where I can.

It became personal when you took the meat out of my freezer and sold the animal to your foreigner buddies.

[Sitkaspruce]

Michael

Poor timing for this post!!!

What did you not bring this up last month, last fall, summer, a year ago, 2 years ago....I think you get my drift.

WE are ALL about putting more animals in the bush, but for the betterment of BC residents to enjoy whether on their plate or in an photo album. Sadly the GOABC has decided NOW is the time to start putting more animals in the bush....at least according to your post.

Have you answered my questions on the other post yet???

Cheers

SS

[luckofthedraw]

I also agree with poor timing for your post. If these issues were in your for front before, you should have brought it up then. Right now,a poor desicion has been made, and residents had no say about it. Maybe someone should have had this approach in the first place instead of creating this monster.

[Goose]

Mooseman, how are we to all join forces? After the bully of the school yard lost all their friends and now wants to come, sniviling back to the group, with their tail between their legs, and just hope everyone accepts them back and all is well.

Like was previously mentioned, the BCWF has laid all their cards on the table and from I can tell, been pretty damn transparent, why doesnt the GOABC?

You guys have alot of fences to mend, and alot of posts to respond to, in order for people to atleast want to listen to your drival and excuses.

Again, take the initiative, if you want people back in your corner, and do something positive for a change without you own pocket books and greed in mind, and thell the government to take the proposal off the table, and follow the rest of the provinces with their allocations policies of 10%. Maybe that will buy you some forgiviness. Its not about how much you pay, its how you give back.

[nelsonob1]

Mooseman, whilst I appreciate you sentiment and honesty, I must confess frustration with much of what you have to say. You can not on one hand identify the passion and value resident hunters place on the future of their resource and then so easily dismiss those same members as "anti hunters" because they are angry at some serious changes relating to access to that resource. As to your appeal to the moderators, I suggest growing up.

If the GOABC was really interested in achieving common goals then it can set aside the advantages it has taken off resident hunters and start a reasonable conversation.

As for the future - this is a short term, extraordinary gain that will be clawed back but the real long term damage has been done to your industry not our allocation. We will fight you and the government and the losers will be the guides and the politicians who owed them the patronage.

[mikeman20]

Ignore GOABC screwing resident hunters year after year. Forget that its resident hunters volunteering their time to increase animal populations while GOABC does nothing except make backroom deals to get a massively inflated allocation. Anyone who questions this is an extremist. Anyone who thinks that .2% of the hunters shouldnt get up to 40% of the allocation is an extremist.

There, fixed it to take out all the double-speak.

[mikeman20]

Here is a comic representation of how this conversation with GOABC has been going

http://www.image-share.com/upload/2803/91.jpg (http://www.image-share.com/ijpg-2803-91.html)

[Seeker]

Ok. I see. Please call Doug or others at the game branch and see what the chance reduction is compared to yesterday.....all the while when I am still down 60% of what I had before. That's why I reinvested to continue what I chose to do with my life.
Don't take my numbers as fact. Check with the people that actually make the numbers!

How many animals are we down if the allocation was 90/10? We don't care about yesterday, we want a fair deal in line with the rest of the industry. Fair, that's all we want.

[HarryToolips]

Easy for you to say Mooseman when GOABC takes more than their fair share of the pie...GOABC can get rammed!

[Gateholio]

Mooseman,

It's clear that you are in this for your own interests.

It's a shame. GOABC should run right to the Government and demand to send 10% at least of all allocations back to the residents. This would be a show of god faith and would likely call off the public hurricane about to explode.

I know you won't do this, of course, which is unfortunate for all.

GOABC was hoping this would blow over during the holidays. Nothing could be further than that. GOABC will end up with far less now. The very public campaign is about to ramp up, and no MLA will want to be seen as siding with foreign trophy hunters over resident meat hunters. It's going to bite GOABC in the ass big time.

[gone hunting]

I dislike the reduced allocation of game for resident hunters. It sucks that some rich American or German or whoever is going to buy an opportunity to hunt moose or elk or whatever and a resident is out of luck for the year...Yeah it sucks and I signed the petition BUT I said it before and I'll say it again "it's not the % of the total wildlife, it's the total of the wildlife that is the real issue"... As much as I would rather it be me or another resident that bags a nice bull, if some non-resident spends about half of my annual income to shoot a bull so he can stick on his wall, it really doesn't make much difference to the herd. The killing of bulls, whether it be by resident or non-resident does not effect the over all numbers. It's the uncontrolled slaughter of cows by the "special Canadians" that is going to destroy hunting for our children and our grandchildren. If you want a fight how about taking on the government as they give away our wildlife for "cultural or ceremonial use"

[danfloris]

What a load of bullshit. Keep digging

[f350ps]

It became personal when you took the meat out of my freezer and sold the animal to your foreigner buddies.
I think I found your meat: http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kelownacapnews.com%2Fnews %2F235887331.html%23.Uq22C0kwNVd.facebook&h=gAQGXRVN4&enc=AZNH5GpnZPWyTYakxoBvrjoNvTBDAvNqlbVLo8pJgrH6Cg FmDWK_Ce4-7OJV3Gceyp7UEdTVCmop3_1z-mADmnNzqrin-6DyYKjSUwfaR88mtARaI-CFIPy3K_OpvA_EKMNk5z8AKTid9v_KvjNSNKVHO_K6fiIxt5zM vRAbJMwH2Q&s=1

[Fisher-Dude]

Yeah. Funny they don't give the antlers too...oh wait, that's all that matters to the guy that shot the moose.


http://media.bclocalnews.com/images/28524kelowna17meatdonationweb.jpg

[randymac]

I agree about the timing but there is an urgency that will take all BCWF, BCTA and the GOABC to join forces on. If nothing else can be agreed on, we have an opportunity to do great things for BC wildlife right now. The people in the know know what I am talking about. But the allocation fight has to be over.

You are right, we have an opportunity to do great things for BC wildlife. First thing you and your associates at GOABC need to do is go back to Minister Thompson and convince him that you all made a mistake in lobbying for this and the correct thing to do is implement the 2007 90% resident allotment that you all agreed to. Then the allocation fight can be over and we can work together.

[Apolonius]

The way i see it is not that the guides want to create more wildlife for all ,it is they want the resident to create more wildlife for them.And about the Island guides ,or some of them,who are the ones that took away the 20-25 LEH for Elk with the allocation???And they should be embarrassed coming here pretending to look out for everyone.Or to try to break BCWF support ,by asking "what bcwf has done for me?" pretending to be resident hunters.It is a policy of GOABC ,and they all try to break us all up.Stay united.And don't for a second, believe this is only Region 4 Sheep we are fighting for.They want everything there is a market for.

[Mooseman]

You are right, we have an opportunity to do great things for BC wildlife. First thing you and your associates at GOABC need to do is go back to Minister Thompson and convince him that you all made a mistake in lobbying for this and the correct thing to do is implement the 2007 90% resident allotment that you all agreed to. Then the allocation fight can be over and we can work together.

randymac, Can you please have a look at the policy so that you don't have to take my word for it. There was no 90% agreed to.

[Fisher-Dude]

The way i see it is not that the guides want to create more wildlife for all ,it is they want the resident to create more wildlife for them.

Bingo! The GOABC has used the resident hunters at every turn, and is "repaying" us with a knife in the back.

F them.

[Fisher-Dude]

randymac, Can you please have a look at the policy so that you don't have to take my word for it. There was no 90% agreed to.

He'd also see that none of the Thomson Splits were agreed to by the BCWF either.

Are you saying that it only matters if GOABC unilaterally agrees to it?

[j270wsm]

randymac, Can you please have a look at the policy so that you don't have to take my word for it. There was no 90% agreed to.


How about explaining the policy on line for everyone on Hbc to read???????

[Spy]

I remember seeing a map with the different guiding territory's & the guides names that own them on it. Anyone care to put it up so we can start planning all our hunts for next season ;-).

[Mooseman]

Disappointing but predicted outcome.

Over the years I have posted on HBC for all kinds of things. Anything from trying to promote tracking wounded game with dogs, free trackingservices, posting jobs available, giving free use of my camps to resident hunters and of cause to talk hunting, dogs, bow hunting and gear with like minded people.

Everything was just fine until 2007..............

Then the allocation policy made enemies out of resident hunters and guide outfitters. I agree with Jesse on this where he says that government handled this file badly.

Back then and now I personally put myself out there trying to tell the story. People take my attempt to tell the other side and $hit on it and me every time.

Fact is that in 2007 we got cut deep. Then we fought back. Now we get a sliver of the loss back and get called names.

I have said everything that needed to be said. I do have a family to look after and a business to run. So please just go back and read my posts and read the allocation policy. Then the December 10 decision.
Then you will see that most of what people are mad about is not there.
I did try to have this discussion in good faith and hope I didn’t offend anyone. That was not the intend. Sometimes things get a little heated and when you defend your life, family and everything you worked for in 28 years one can make inflammatory statements.

Outfitters have put millions of dollars and hours in to the wellbeing of wildlife in BC. We advocate for habitat and wildlife and all those things will not change.

........when this is all over we will be open to work on whatever we can to promote sustainable hunting, wellbeing of wildlife and its habitat in BC.

Happy trails,
Michael

[Fisher-Dude]

Some people play the poor victim, others just present the facts and figures and rationale.

When those who play the poor victim find more than $100,000 in spare change to line the pockets of politicians for political favours, it makes reasonable people decide to support the facts and figures and rationale of the other side.

[Salty]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/GOABC.jpg

[Apolonius]

For all of you that don't know…..Christy was in the neighbourhood and She heard some noise … investigated...and they welcome her royally …..right in the middle of the pcture.What a chance!!!!!I wish i was that lucky.Christy next election you will be out ….and no CKNW job waiting!!!!What a screwed up party is that.

[high and to the right]

Disappointing but predicted outcome.

Over the years I have posted on HBC for all kinds of things. Anything from trying to promote tracking wounded game with dogs, free trackingservices, posting jobs available, giving free use of my camps to resident hunters and of cause to talk hunting, dogs, bow hunting and gear with like minded people.

Everything was just fine until 2007..............

Then the allocation policy made enemies out of resident hunters and guide outfitters. I agree with Jesse on this where he says that government handled this file badly.

Back then and now I personally put myself out there trying to tell the story. People take my attempt to tell the other side and $hit on it and me every time.

Fact is that in 2007 we got cut deep. Then we fought back. Now we get a sliver of the loss back and get called names.

I have said everything that needed to be said. I do have a family to look after and a business to run. So please just go back and read my posts and read the allocation policy. Then the December 10 decision.
Then you will see that most of what people are mad about is not there.
I did try to have this discussion in good faith and hope I didn’t offend anyone. That was not the intend. Sometimes things get a little heated and when you defend your life, family and everything you worked for in 28 years one can make inflammatory statements.

Outfitters have put millions of dollars and hours in to the wellbeing of wildlife in BC. We advocate for habitat and wildlife and all those things will not change.

........when this is all over we will be open to work on whatever we can to promote sustainable hunting, wellbeing of wildlife and its habitat in BC.

Happy trails,
Michael

I would like to than you Michael (Mooseman) for your noble attempt to open up a dialogue. I do not know you, I don't know anything about you but I respect that you put yourself on the line to try to look at this issue in a more productive way. What do I know about guiding? Very little. I guided for two weeks back in the mid 90's. Up at 4am to catch stupid horses, looking after a hunter that wouldn't take off his white hat and who couldn't hit a target. After 18 hour days (my hunter did get a 7pt elk and an average moose) and back breaking work I knew that I enjoyed hunting way more than guiding, even though I saw more territory in two weeks than I normally see in a decade. There's good and bad guides and there are good and bad hunters. I have always respected guides because they provide a service for way more average people who saved a life time for this one time adventure as opposed to the wealthy arrogant killers that come here with their entitlement attitudes. When I come across a guide if I am hunting in a new area, I have a chat and then respectfully hunt in a different area. WOW - there is so much territory in BC that I don't need to hunt in his/her back yard. That is my choice and every one has a choice to hunt or not hunt anywhere it is legal in BC, whether a guided territory or not. I'm not saying that we shouldn't hunt in guided territory - just that it is what I choose to do.
What do I know about hunting? Got my first grouse at age 5 and my first bear at age 12 and have enjoyed the outdoors hunting in the 4 western provinces since then - 60 years. And the best hunting in the world is right here in BC.
The reason the world is so messed up is because everyone is right in their own eyes and won't even entertain a civil conversation about the contentious issues. In the end, it is the government that holds the power over all of us hunters. I have a greater fear about losing most of our privileges by government action than I do about losing them from any individual group. The more we fight the more we lose public opinion and the more the government feels that they need to help us children make good decisions since we can't get along.
I realize that I will now be in some of your cross hairs because there is a feeling that I am ignorant to 'the truth' about what is happening. That's OK. "All I am saying, is give peace a chance". lol
Again, I don't know Mooseman so I have no personal investment in this conversation. BUT what has happened in this thread by someone brave enough to try to open a dialogue is wrong. It will do nothing more than continue to heighten the tension and will accomplish nothing.
The old expression says - it is what it is. But the dialogue we now need to have is - what do we want it to be in the future.

[nelsonob1]

Respectfully, it is what it is because one side has benefitted at the expense of the other. A decision that was made without that dialogue. And the hundreds of comments made on these threads are about what we want in the future. Or am I missing something?


I would like to than you Michael (Mooseman) for your noble attempt to open up a dialogue. I do not know you, I don't know anything about you but I respect that you put yourself on the line to try to look at this issue in a more productive way. What do I know about guiding? Very little. I guided for two weeks back in the mid 90's. Up at 4am to catch stupid horses, looking after a hunter that wouldn't take off his white hat and who couldn't hit a target. After 18 hour days (my hunter did get a 7pt elk and an average moose) and back breaking work I knew that I enjoyed hunting way more than guiding, even though I saw more territory in two weeks than I normally see in a decade. There's good and bad guides and there are good and bad hunters. I have always respected guides because they provide a service for way more average people who saved a life time for this one time adventure as opposed to the wealthy arrogant killers that come here with their entitlement attitudes. When I come across a guide if I am hunting in a new area, I have a chat and then respectfully hunt in a different area. WOW - there is so much territory in BC that I don't need to hunt in his/her back yard. That is my choice and every one has a choice to hunt or not hunt anywhere it is legal in BC, whether a guided territory or not. I'm not saying that we shouldn't hunt in guided territory - just that it is what I choose to do.
What do I know about hunting? Got my first grouse at age 5 and my first bear at age 12 and have enjoyed the outdoors hunting in the 4 western provinces since then - 60 years. And the best hunting in the world is right here in BC.
The reason the world is so messed up is because everyone is right in their own eyes and won't even entertain a civil conversation about the contentious issues. In the end, it is the government that holds the power over all of us hunters. I have a greater fear about losing most of our privileges by government action than I do about losing them from any individual group. The more we fight the more we lose public opinion and the more the government feels that they need to help us children make good decisions since we can't get along.
I realize that I will now be in some of your cross hairs because there is a feeling that I am ignorant to 'the truth' about what is happening. That's OK. "All I am saying, is give peace a chance". lol
Again, I don't know Mooseman so I have no personal investment in this conversation. BUT what has happened in this thread by someone brave enough to try to open a dialogue is wrong. It will do nothing more than continue to heighten the tension and will accomplish nothing.
The old expression says - it is what it is. But the dialogue we now need to have is - what do we want it to be in the future.

[r106]

Until the goabc backs off on the allocation an accepts that the animals of this province belong to the people of this province, the conversation you want can't happen

[high and to the right]

Respectfully, it is what it is because one side has benefitted at the expense of the other. A decision that was made without that dialogue. And the hundreds of comments made on these threads are about what we want in the future. Or am I missing something?

When trust has been betrayed (or perceived to have been betrayed) it is almost always impossible to move forward, but not impossible. Decisions have been made by our government to do many things that are not always right. Do I agree with their decision to allow all Translink employees to have free transportation for them and their families? Do I agree with their decision to tax me so bikers and transit riders don't have to pay their fair share of expenses. Do I agree with … and on and on. But it bothered me to see such mercilessly attacks on the one person who is trying to open a dialogue for a way forward. I know of very few decisions that are made where everyone feels that it was 100% fair. Hey, I'm married and know that sometime I benefit and sometimes my wife benefits. (but I have more toys) If we look at hunting over the next 50 years, what will work, what will we lose and what will we gain. What is the starting point NOW. I am a hunter and a BCWF member. I hear the anger and can almost feel the pain of fellow hunters jumping off the pages as they write their concerns on paper. My first reaction was WHAT - we are losing 40% of our hunting allocations? I'm still not sure what the real facts are but I know that I needed to get my emotions in check before coming on this blog to vent, or better still, to dialogue about a way forward. Thank you nelson0b1 for starting your email to me with the words, "respectfully." I have met 100's of hunters in the bush and the one thing that we all have in common (OK 99% of us) is that we respect each other and will usually help each other out even if it means losing that last 1/2 hours of sunlight because a fellow hunter was in need.

[Salty]

The first step to finding common ground and agreement with another individual or group of individuals would be to get back what they've stolen from you. Its just the way it is.

[Goose]

High and to the right -

well said comments and I do agree with you, the dialog needs to be opened, and he did do that.......but he's so out in left field with his comments that it was hard to take him seriously. The things in which he said had no revelance to the meaning he was trying to protray, if that makes any sense at all.

Its like going to a funeral all happy and excited like its christmas time. Wrong place and time, and he didnt bring the tools needed to and try and prove that he was sincere or that the GOABC would like to open up dialog with the government and BCWF and renegotiate.

He only picked a few posts he could actually argue and with little or no substance to his arguements. There are alot of posts that have good honest questions he could comment on to cool down the fire, but he choose not to. He could have given revelant facts and figures, he didnt. He could have choose to completely avoid bringing up the year 2007, he walked right into that one as well.

Give this guy a hammer and a nail and hes going to hit his hand 9 times out of 10.

I give him credit for trying, but stop jumping into the deep end with your pockets full of lead.

Cheers

[Sleep Robber]

Just read through this and one thing that's easily transparent is seeing through the OP's bullshit.

Goddam sneak thieves anyway.

[HarryToolips]

Just read through this and one thing that's easily transparent is seeing through the OP's bullshit.

Goddam sneak thieves anyway.
Same here..can smell it from our computers...

[aggiehunter]

Mooseman, only one point for me...the BCWF does not represent me as a resident hunter/bow hunter...so don't be confused by saying they represent all hunters in BC. Caveat here..the BCWF does a lot of good stuff.

[REMINGTON JIM]

[QUOTE=j270wsm How about explaining the policy on line for everyone on Hbc to read???????

Yea i really would like to to have it explained to me - because i think some one is BS ing us resident hunters ! :sad: RJ

[.264winmag]

I'm forking out over $40k in taxes every year. You'd think I'd have more say on how my animals are being divided. I know of some pretty fishy things going on with outfitters and their guides. I don't like what I see and as far as I'm concerned goabc should be happy with a 95-5% split across the board in favour of residents. It seems like it's going more in the direction of the commercial/recreational sport fishing on the coast and it's quite evident we are losing that battle. Common goals? No, we need to worry about ourselves as residents or one day hunting will be reserved for the wealthy only. And we'll be sitting around saying ' remember back in the day when we could just buy a license and go hunting'! Personally goabc can pound sand...

[brno375]

Ok. I see. Please call Doug or others at the game branch and see what the chance reduction is compared to yesterday.....all the while when I am still down 60% of what I had before. That's why I reinvested to continue what I chose to do with my life.
Don't take my numbers as fact. Check with the people that actually make the numbers!

So your quota/business/industry goes into the toilet and you buy a second territory. Explain that one to me please (and this is the second time I have asked you your rationale behind this decision).

Also, has the moose population increased or decreased within your territory?

I agree that the resource needs to increase for the use of all.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

[QUOTE=brno375;1585952]So your quota/business/industry goes into the toilet and you buy a second territory. Explain that one to me please (and this is the second time I have asked you your rationale behind this decision).
QUOTE]

That's like drowning man asking for someone to throw him a concrete block.:???:

SSS

[Seeker]

[QUOTE=brno375;1585952]So your quota/business/industry goes into the toilet and you buy a second territory. Explain that one to me please (and this is the second time I have asked you your rationale behind this decision).
QUOTE]

That's like drowning man asking for someone to throw him a concrete block.:???:

SSS

SSS, I don't want to put a damper on things, but are we really winning right now? I am not convinced we are. Based on responses from MLA's such as the one PG. It appears they are willing to stand their ground and trudge on. I think we need to dig even deeper to accomplish what we aim to achieve. We need to reinforce that letting up and maintaining this pressure is not an option. We need to increase the intensity!

[Wentrot]

We need to see 1000 camo jackets marching on the evening news. That would be a start.

[WesHarm]

We need to see 1000 camo jackets marching on the evening news. That would be a start.

That might send the wrong message.... just saying ;)

[Ed George]

Disappointing but predicted outcome.

Over the years I have posted on HBC for all kinds of things. Anything from trying to promote tracking wounded game with dogs, free trackingservices, posting jobs available, giving free use of my camps to resident hunters and of cause to talk hunting, dogs, bow hunting and gear with like minded people.

Everything was just fine until 2007..............

Then the allocation policy made enemies out of resident hunters and guide outfitters. I agree with Jesse on this where he says that government handled this file badly.

Back then and now I personally put myself out there trying to tell the story. People take my attempt to tell the other side and $hit on it and me every time.

Fact is that in 2007 we got cut deep. Then we fought back. Now we get a sliver of the loss back and get called names.

I have said everything that needed to be said. I do have a family to look after and a business to run. So please just go back and read my posts and read the allocation policy. Then the December 10 decision.
Then you will see that most of what people are mad about is not there.
I did try to have this discussion in good faith and hope I didn’t offend anyone. That was not the intend. Sometimes things get a little heated and when you defend your life, family and everything you worked for in 28 years one can make inflammatory statements.

Outfitters have put millions of dollars and hours in to the wellbeing of wildlife in BC. We advocate for habitat and wildlife and all those things will not change.

........when this is all over we will be open to work on whatever we can to promote sustainable hunting, wellbeing of wildlife and its habitat in BC.

Happy trails,
Michael

This is my opinion.

The 2007 allocation policy was based on the best 5 years in guide outfitters history and was therefore skewed from the start. Prior to 2007 the guides in 7B had around 75% of the allocation for sheep in the region due to sweetheart deals with the regional managers. The allocation calculator showed that to be almost completely opposite to the principals of resident priority with reality being about 75% being the true resident allocation. The implementation period was so that the guiding industry could learn to deal with their new reality. When the 2007 policy was signed off and introduced we were all told that no one would be happy but it was fair.
Now the guides are saying that we should not worry about numbers but should concentrate on making more animals. All that will do is increase their allocation and raise their numbers. How about the guides accept the 2007 policy and work to increase numbers of animals as that will increase their number of tags. Are the tags they would have under the 2007 policy fully sold? I doubt that as is shown by the tidal sport fishing industry closing lodges in the north as they can not fill them. The US economy has not recovered to that point yet, our dollar though falling is still too strong for their wallets.
As for the GOABC working with the BCWF in the future, my opinion is that that option is not currently available nor can I see it being available in the future. The BCWF is an honorable association that believes that their word is their bond.

Hunting for Health not Heads

JPS

[Stone Sheep Steve]

[QUOTE=Stone Sheep Steve;1585985]

SSS, I don't want to put a damper on things, but are we really winning right now? I am not convinced we are. Based on responses from MLA's such as the one PG. It appears they are willing to stand their ground and trudge on. I think we need to dig even deeper to accomplish what we aim to achieve. We need to reinforce that letting up and maintaining this pressure is not an option. We need to increase the intensity!

I totally agree.
Those post-donation promises are about the only sign of anything honorable.

SSS

[curt]

Easy for some guy on the winning end to preach the blah blah blah crap guide outfitters bought the liberals off that's the reality, residents of this province deserve to reap the benefits hands down over foreigners to me there is no argument that's just the way it should be. Guides should not reap the benefit off the backs of the f***ing BC residents and for that you wont get any respect from me. We have been hunting in area's with guides before and they have been ignorant and pissy to see us there but our group tried to be reasonable and polite ................but now F that I hope to see some now because I wont be nearly as friendly this is my province I grow up here as did my ancestors so you and your out of province clients can f right off

[Sitkaspruce]

So your quota/business/industry goes into the toilet and you buy a second territory. Explain that one to me please (and this is the second time I have asked you your rationale behind this decision).

Also, has the moose population increased or decreased within your territory?

I agree that the resource needs to increase for the use of all.

Since I used to work in the "other" territory he bought, the main reason is most of it is GOS for Moose, goats and of course black bears, along with a few grizz a year and has very very limited resident access. His other territory can be accessed by residents and is an LEH area for moose, GOS black bears, no goats and I believe no grizz, although they are there, in good numbers. He also targets europeans for most of his clients

I think branching out is a smart way to keep your business a float. Mind you, the territory he bought was and should be a part time business, not one that you should be putting all your eggs in....even though it is a GOS area. The owner prior to one I worked for also ran it as a part time business, although they also owned a fishing lodge in the area, which they sold separately.

I am not speaking for Michael, this is just a quick history and my thoughts.

Cheers

SS

[Lillypuff]

Help me here how is 189 animals over 220 outfits save your businesses? That is less than 1 animal per outfitter. Pretty sick way to make living. Hope you sleep well at night knowing you are gouging the resident hunters woman and children included

[curt]

Mooseman the fact the you say stupid thing like "guide outfitters put millions of dollars into our wildlife" proves to me you are a man scrambling to justify the bs the liberals have handed the resident hunters of this province. Residents hunters supplement the BC economy considerably more than your guide outfitters probably 10times as much easy so pull your head out of your ass. You guides are so conservative with our resources my ass I've seen and heard more than a few stories of guides shooting elk or deer as bait for the clients to harvest their Bears so do yourself a favor don't try and convince hunters here your industry is all about respect and honor it's far from it

[walks with deer]

Was op not just baiting attack..?

[fowl language]

I wonder what it cost to have some back biting lawyer to write a letter such as the original in this post ..man he really must think that we are a bunch of dummies or they are doing this as bait to send another legalese letter to banter all the members on here .perhaps it is to get a feel for how the residents are feeling. as far as I am concerned a certain guide outfit organization is about to implode and they are feeling it...keep the faith....fowl

[kawdy]

I agree with fowl language. Can't explain everything going on, but small cracks are starting to show. Now is not the time to back off on the accelerator but slam it to the floor board.

Once again I plead with all you lurkers out there to sign up and do something. If you have an idea, run with it and don't assume someone else will, there aren't enough hours in the day for the already active members to take on the extra work. There are a number of us working behind the scenes, independent of the BCWF. We are going full out every day. My dog is getting fat and my wife is nagging me, so I know my efforts must be achieving something, right ?

[Goose]

Kawdy - I've been reading a lot of your post, and just wanted to say thanks for all your hard work an dedication to this matter! Honestly, thank you!

Cheers

[brno375]

Since I used to work in the "other" territory he bought, the main reason is most of it is GOS for Moose, goats and of course black bears, along with a few grizz a year and has very very limited resident access. His other territory can be accessed by residents and is an LEH area for moose, GOS black bears, no goats and I believe no grizz, although they are there, in good numbers. He also targets europeans for most of his clients

I think branching out is a smart way to keep your business a float. Mind you, the territory he bought was and should be a part time business, not one that you should be putting all your eggs in....even though it is a GOS area. The owner prior to one I worked for also ran it as a part time business, although they also owned a fishing lodge in the area, which they sold separately.

I am not speaking for Michael, this is just a quick history and my thoughts.

Cheers

SS

Thanks SS. I was expecting the answer to be something along the lines of "After XX years of operating in my territory, it was paid off and well established, and when the neighbouring territory became available, I was able to purchase it at a price that was fair, and the economy of scale worked to my advantage. I was also able to get out of the restrictive quota and into a GOS area with little access and resident pressure. I believe by expanding it will keep me in business". That answer I can respect, but "I need more from residents to make my business model work" I do not.