Public Protests: Should we be getting organized and fight the new Allocation Policy??

[HarryToolips]

Many of us have sent emails and letters to fight the BC Liberal's new Wildlife Allocation Policy, but is it enough?? Shouldn't we be getting out there and really making a stand for our rights?? Should we wait until the holidays are over before marching in front of our local MLA's offices?? Thoughts all...

[Wentrot]

Its certainly time to take it to the streets. I wish BCWF would back it up and help rally the troops however they showed zero interest in assisting when I asked. Iam not sure how to go about planning something on a large scale.

[HarryToolips]

Its certainly time to take it to the streets. I wish BCWF would back it up and help rally the troops however they showed zero interest in assisting when I asked. Iam not sure how to go about planning something on a large scale.
It is too bad, I understand why BCWF is unable to do so though, but it would be nice if they found a legal loophole.. I think we just need to act and setup a time and date, I'm guessing a Saturday after the holidays would be best. It would be great if the media showed up, though I am a poor public speaker but if someone better suited for that were to show up for our cause it would be great..

I really believe the provincial govt is underestimating us and they don't think we will fight them with blunt force..

[Wentrot]

I really believe the provincial govt is underestimating us and they don't think we will fight them with blunt force..

Id say you are 100 percent on that one. I would think if enough people came out the media would be a sure thing.

[Steeleco]

I wish BCWF would back it up and help rally the troops however they showed zero interest in assisting when I asked.

I could be off a bit, but I believe the BCWF can't do certain things politically as it may jeopardize their "charitable donation" status.

[Wentrot]

I could be off a bit, but I believe the BCWF can't do certain things politically as it may jeopardize their "charitable donation" status.

That makes sense. Too bad.

[two-feet]

Harry- you are a passionate hunter. You care about the allocation issue. You live in a dense population centre.

Ever think about taking the bull by the horns and organizing just this thing? If you start the momentum other good people on this site will for sure jump in and help out.

[HarryToolips]

Harry- you are a passionate hunter. You care about the allocation issue. You live in a dense population centre.

Ever think about taking the bull by the horns and organizing just this thing? If you start the momentum other good people on this site will for sure jump in and help out.

Exactly, glad your with us...everybody who wants to fight this by a public protest, please state on this thread the best mla office/day/time for them to do so...when/if organized, we need to get out as much hunting/outdoors people we know to join us in the protest.. there are other non hunting groups who share our view who would come out as well I would think..if organized, I wonder if there are any First Nations Members who would join our cause, as many of them hunt for sustenance, and we the resident hunters have more to do with the well being of our wildlife than Guide Outfitters and some foreign hunters no doubt...

Anybody good at making signs??

Who's in??

[mikeman20]

I'm in, and I'll bring friends.

[Spy]

I'm in, and I'll bring friends.

Second that I will bring friends & family!

[HarryToolips]

Awesome guys, I'm in West Kelowna so its convenient that it's right at the premier's office..I would think if we organize protests in several regions/mla offices we'd really make a statement..

[Seeker]

Great work HT. I will inform my circle of the possibility, if you are looking into the Premiers office and you want someone to actually be there, I would suggest it be a weekday before 4:30 in the afternoon. This is going to make it difficult for a lot of working people including myself to get there, but I would do my best. It will be closed on the weekends, but I think if enough supporters show up and we indicate to the media that we are having a peaceful protest, it may be enough! Count me in! If you need help please PM me, I will help in any way I can.

[mikeman20]

approximate date for these protests? i vote soon after newyears so we have time to get the word out and get ourselves organized

[Paulyman]

who wants to protest in front of Global TV office with me sometime in the new year?

[guest]

Sign Me up ..... Im in TEN FOLD ! It should Be Liberal Political Offices for sure They are the ones Selling us all. out. GOABC Kissing BUTT there for sure.

i will be at my local Liberal office and signs go up in my truck real soon. The more that know about this BS the better.

BC LIBERALS ARE SELLING OFF OUR PROVINCE ........ As long as they get their pensions they could care less.

[Hunting/addict]

Let me know when and where ....I will be there!

[Daybreak]

I would suggest a series of gatherings all carried out simultaneously. Vancouver, Victoria, Kelowna, Kamloops, Prince George, FSJ Cranbrook etc. at the Liberal offices. We might not have large attendance in any given location however a multitude of appearances might garner good attention. Count me in for Kelowna. Just need a date and time that would be most effective for our cause.

[mcmullmar]

I'll be there there with my family

[Foxton Gundogs]

If a protest is going to be staged it should be co-ordinated a doz random hunters marching on an MLAs office will be treated like a joke. I say we should target the 3 main players. Thomson, Bennett, and The Legislature in Victoria. Now is the time to declair how committed you are to the cause are you willing to travel, to putout a few # for ferry fare and gas. If not then I say forget it, but if we can see the kind of numbers we have seen so far at the town haul meetings protesting in frone of these 3 key points then even the smaller ones in other places like the Peace, Terrace/Rupert will have meaning. We need a coordination team and a date and time as well as other locations where others not able to travel to the major protest locations can display their opposition as well. It's a great idea but it can also work against us so if you say YES then mean it and follow through

[adriaticum]

Good idea.
BC Wildlife federation should certainly be involved

[Whonnock Boy]

Good idea.
BC Wildlife federation should certainly be involved
It is my understanding that they cannot be a part of any public protest, or organizing of it, being they are a charitable foundation.

[adriaticum]

It is my understanding that they cannot be a part of any public protest, or organizing of it, being they are a charitable foundation.

I researched this and you're right.
They can't oppose a law. Its not necessarily about the protest but it's about opposing a law.

[hunterkyle]

My family and I are in for kelowna

[HarryToolips]

OK folks this is great to see you all showing support for our hunting rights!!! Now we just need to wait a few days, as there are a couple members here who may be getting something together, so hold tight everybody!!

[boilerroom]

I researched this and you're right.
They can't oppose a law. Its not necessarily about the protest but it's about opposing a law.

They can't oppose a law but they can take part in a public awareness campaign that communicates the loss of resident hunters ability to sustenance hunt and an increase in non-resident opportunities:

"We have narrowed what we consider political activities to no longer include many attempts to inform public opinion on an issue. This change in policy should enable charities to more effectively carry out their public awareness programs." http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/chrts/plcy/cps/cps-022-eng.html#politicalactivities6.2

[taper arrow]

I would suggest a series of gatherings all carried out simultaneously. Vancouver, Victoria, Kelowna, Kamloops, Prince George, FSJ Cranbrook etc. at the Liberal offices. We might not have large attendance in any given location however a multitude of appearances might garner good attention. Count me in for Kelowna. Just need a date and time that would be most effective for our cause.

Count me in. I agreed with a simultaneously gathering at Vancouver Island, North , South, East and West, of BC. To ensure more hunters show up, if legal, please post the date at all gun clubs. We just need a thousand hunters to show up at each place to make a point.

[Wentrot]

They can't oppose a law but they can take part in a public awareness campaign that communicates the loss of resident hunters ability to sustenance hunt and an increase in non-resident opportunities:

"We have narrowed what we consider political activities to no longer include many attempts to inform public opinion on an issue. This change in policy should enable charities to more effectively carry out their public awareness programs." http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/chrts/plcy/cps/cps-022-eng.html#politicalactivities6.2

Hmm well if thats the case then the bcwf obviously just doesn't care enough.

[mikeman20]

Hmm well if thats the case then the bcwf obviously just doesn't care enough.

Bcwf has done more to bring this to the public's eye than every other organisation and individual people combined

[Wentrot]

Bcwf has done more to bring this to the public's eye than every other organisation and individual people combined

I beg to differ from what I have seen

[Airedale]

I see the Cabelas US site sells a bunch of GOABC hunts.
Perhaps the Manager of the Nanaimo Store needs to publicly express his support for the BCWF on this issue.
If not, perhaps a boycott is in order.
I strongly suspect the local MLA won't ignore his emails and phone calls.

[Salty]

I beg to differ from what I have seen

What have you seen? Who else was opposing this allocation policy and posting the facts long before anything here? Hater's gotta hate I guess. And yeah as stated the BCWF is a charitable foundation and not a protest movement dissing them for not rallying in the streets is a little silly.

[Foxton Gundogs]

http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Wentrot
http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1579377#post1579377) I beg to differ from what I have seen

What have you seen? Who else was opposing this allocation policy and posting the facts long before anything here? Hater's gotta hate I guess. And yeah as stated the BCWF is a charitable foundation and not a protest movement dissing them for not rallying in the streets is a little silly.

You are right Salty, the BCWF has done plenty within the boundaries they must work within. There are other forces that are able to and are working outside those boundaries. Wentrot(and others) now is not the time to be bickering and "attacking" the BCWF(or any other onside group), you may have your reasons and that is fine, but those reasons MUST be put aside and we ALL must work as a team against a common "enemy". We must all fight the same battle in the ways we are able but we must all present a united front for the good of the cause.

[HarryToolips]

Foxton has got it right people....

[adriaticum]

They can't oppose a law but they can take part in a public awareness campaign that communicates the loss of resident hunters ability to sustenance hunt and an increase in non-resident opportunities:

"We have narrowed what we consider political activities to no longer include many attempts to inform public opinion on an issue. This change in policy should enable charities to more effectively carry out their public awareness programs." http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/chrts/plcy/cps/cps-022-eng.html#politicalactivities6.2

This is true.
This is also not law, yet, so I'm sure some lawyer would argue that you're right.
But I would leave it to the BCWF heads to decided that.

[Bugle M In]

http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Wentrot
http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1579377#post1579377) I beg to differ from what I have seen


You are right Salty, the BCWF has done plenty within the boundaries they must work within. There are other forces that are able to and are working outside those boundaries. Wentrot(and others) now is not the time to be bickering and "attacking" the BCWF(or any other onside group), you may have your reasons and that is fine, but those reasons MUST be put aside and we ALL must work as a team against a common "enemy". We must all fight the same battle in the ways we are able but we must all present a united front for the good of the cause.

I think you a right...mostly.
Now is not the time to attack...correct!
But, NOW, is the time to see where people and groups stand!
Lets see if the BCWF helps in supporting protest or letters or media attention, or whatever else one can think of.
NOW is the Time to see if WSS or Cabelas or what have you, stand by resident hunters of BC....or not??
Lets find out who is on OUR Team.
And if you aren't on OUR Team ( resident hunters of bc ), than let it be known, so that we are well advised as individuals to whether we support you in funding / purchasing etc.
If you ain't with us, your against us, and money, in the end, speaks louder than words!

[Cedar Cowgirl]

I think you a right...mostly.
Now is not the time to attack...correct!
But, NOW, is the time to see where people and groups stand!
Lets see if the BCWF helps in supporting protest or letters or media attention, or whatever else one can think of.
NOW is the Time to see if WSS or Cabelas or what have you, stand by resident hunters of BC....or not??
Lets find out who is on OUR Team.
And if you aren't on OUR Team ( resident hunters of bc ), than let it be known, so that we are well advised as individuals to whether we support you in funding / purchasing etc.
If you ain't with us, your against us, and money, in the end, speaks louder than words!

While I see and agree with most of your points,I fail to understand your point with the BCWF. They make no secret about where they stand, they are however a registered charitable organization, one of the stipulations in being so is they may not participate in partisan action against the government. If they do so they stand to loose their status which could be very devastating to the organization. To this point they have been doing a great deal within the guidelines allowed under their charitable status. As previously stated we must all pull together in a united front and do all we can or are allowed to do, I have no doubt the BCWF has been and will continue to do just that. I believe their position is quite clear.

[Bugle M In]

Than Maybe we need a RHBCUF (Registered Hunters of BC United Federation) ???
Something that does give us a voice and IS allowed to give a Partisan Voice....
May sound goofy, but what other choice do we have....stay separated and with individual voice????
If you make it hurt where it counts...meaning money!...or lack of to certain Societies and businesses alike, than people start listening.
And when a lack of money is seen, and complaints from a far reaching spectrum of people, not just hunters, who will be impacted, than politicians start listening.

[mcmullmar]

How do we start it?

[Bugle M In]

How do we start it?

I think we start by electing guys like Goatguy and or Fisherdude or Coach..???
But don't tell them I said that ...lol:mrgreen:

[adriaticum]

I think you a right...mostly.
Now is not the time to attack...correct!
But, NOW, is the time to see where people and groups stand!
Lets see if the BCWF helps in supporting protest or letters or media attention, or whatever else one can think of.
NOW is the Time to see if WSS or Cabelas or what have you, stand by resident hunters of BC....or not??
Lets find out who is on OUR Team.
And if you aren't on OUR Team ( resident hunters of bc ), than let it be known, so that we are well advised as individuals to whether we support you in funding / purchasing etc.
If you ain't with us, your against us, and money, in the end, speaks louder than words!


I don't understand what you are saying.
This entire awareness campaign was started by the BCWF.
Who do you think started it?

[adriaticum]

By creating another organization all we are doing is fragmenting an already fragmented community.
How about working to make those other 60,000 hunters who are not members of the BCWF, members.
That would be a time better spent.

If anyone feels BCWF is not doing enough, get involved, become an active member and change how things are done.
Some people have a completely wrong perception of what BCWF is.

[Whonnock Boy]

By creating another organization all we are doing is fragmenting an already fragmented community.
How about working to make those other 60,000 hunters who are not members of the BCWF, members.
That would be a time better spent.

Agreed!!!!!!!!!

[Rob Chipman]

"If anyone feels BCWF is not doing enough, get involved, become an active member and change how things are done".

except:

"They make no secret about where they stand, they are however a registered charitable organization, one of the stipulations in being so is they may not participate in partisan action against the government. If they do so they stand to loose their status which could be very devastating to the organization".


which logically leads to:

"Something that does give us a voice and IS allowed to give a Partisan Voice...."


I think the BCWF does benefit resident hunters in a lot of ways. However, if it's dependent on charitable status to operate and does not want to jeopardize that, let them keep doing what they currently do and do well.


What seems to be required is some sort of vehicle that will concentrate the power of resident hunters and get some results. Call it a political action committee. It doesn't need charitable status. All it needs is a clear set of goals.

There are advantages to a new, separate organization. Changing the way an existing organization works takes time and energy, and even if the change is effected it might take the organization away from what it was doing well.

Is anyone making the argument that the BCWF is a complete waste of time that does nothing well and hurts hunters? I don't think so.

Is anyone saying that the WSS is bad and hurts hunters? I don't think so.

Both organizations seem to want to tread carefully around this issue, however, and there's probably some wisdom in that.

Nothing says a new organization can't compliment a huge number of other organizations that have common interests. (Just thinking out loud).

[Blk Arrow]

I support the idea of an advocacy group for resident hunters in principle. There is a risk, however, of emotions overriding what I perceive as position of strength. As resident hunters we have an argument that the general public should perceive as an injustice to all BC citizens. We must also be careful in how we perceive others!



NOW is the Time to see if WSS or Cabelas or what have you, stand by resident hunters of BC....or not??

The purposes of the Wild Sheep Society are set out in section 2 of its Constitution as follows:
a) To promote the cause of wild sheep conservation and preservation.
b) To protect and enhance habitat for wild sheep and associated wildlife.
c) To unite sportsmen with one purpose, the safeguarding of these natural resources for future generations.
d) To support the rights of our members in their endeavors to preserve our environment.
e) To maintain and promote the right to hunt in a safe and ethical manner and to foster good will, sportsmanship and fair chase in light of all rules and regulations.
The Wild Sheep Society of B.C. cannot advocate for resident hunters. Their constitution merely allows them to advocate for the sheep

[adriaticum]

Rob Chipman, I agree with you but I am not 100% sold on this charitable status thing.
I am not a lawyer and don't know exactly what constitutes a breach of charitable status.
But personally I do not want to have a lobby organization which is going to dole out cash to politicians for favours.
Then it all becomes about who pays more. We would then be racing to the bottom with GOABC.
This has to be about principle. It has to be about science.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I support the idea of an advocacy group for resident hunters in principle. There is a risk, however, of emotions overriding what I perceive as position of strength. As resident hunters we have an argument that the general public should perceive as an injustice to all BC citizens. We must also be careful in how we perceive others!


The purposes of the Wild Sheep Society are set out in section 2 of its Constitution as follows:
a) To promote the cause of wild sheep conservation and preservation.
b) To protect and enhance habitat for wild sheep and associated wildlife.
c) To unite sportsmen with one purpose, the safeguarding of these natural resources for future generations.
d) To support the rights of our members in their endeavors to preserve our environment.
e) To maintain and promote the right to hunt in a safe and ethical manner and to foster good will, sportsmanship and fair chase in light of all rules and regulations.
The Wild Sheep Society of B.C. cannot advocate for resident hunters. Their constitution merely allows them to advocate for the sheep

OK so given the fact that The Wild Sheep Society of B.C. is in the same boat as the BCWF and their hands are tied by their "Charitable Status". Would it not be fair to say that it is their mandate under sections a) and c) to fight tooth and nail against the GOS imposed for Reg. 4 on sheep? What excuse do they have to sit silent while we are at risk of having every legal(and possibly NEAR legal) ram wiped out within a year. the though of it is unconscionable.

[Bugle M In]

BCWF is a charitable organization.
And yes, I feel they do stand for hunters.
But if a charitable organization is unable to be in total support of resident hunters, what are we to do?????
I'm not trying to kick BCWF, and it's members, who do work hard.....but, if they can't contribute in the form of a solidarity style voice for Resident hunters , due to guidelines, as those guidelines apply as well to WSS,
Than, I, need to reconsider who I am giving money to!!
I like what WSS tries to achieve.
I like that BCWF tries to help Resident hunters etc.
But, If they can't help us, say like the GOABC helps GO's, than I and I feel others may need to reconsider who we want to support.
Resident hunters need a voice, as obviously we don't have one ( Dec10 Allocation policy )
If we did, and with practical influence, do you think that Dec 10th decision would have happened.???
I never realized how small a voice we had here in BC.
I thought BCWF had a larger voice. ( note: not effort )
But, it's seems very apparent we don't, and other organizations want to stay quiet.
We need a voice.
Maybe BCWF needs to change the type of organization it is to become a voice??
If not, we need something else for Resident hunters

[forestwalker]

I'm in the Williams Lake area. While not a large epicenter such as kamloops or PG, this area can draw from out west and out east in Horsefly and Likely. Maybe more so than a lot of other places, this region can gather the number of people required to make a dent for our cause. however, that being said, I'm prepared to travel to wherever is necessary to get our point across.

Rick

[goinghunting]

Im in! When and were?

[40incher]

You'll have to excuse me but does the GOABC not have charitable status !!?? They give out tax receipts so that their supporters can write off their "donations" against income don't they?? Just a thought ...

Are we all playing by the same rules??

[forestwalker]

Just another thought. We need a figurehead that can lead this fight, in cooperation with the BCWF. I know from the past Rafe Mair has fought time and time again for environmental issues. I wonder if this perhaps would be a cause for him to stand up for? I think we also need to flood the news networks with our letters, signed petition, etc. We need to get this information and our cause easily available to the general public, everyone who hunts knows and has spread the word. We need to get the non-hunter educated and talking about this, it might not directly affect them but just as the general public as a whole already dislikes the thought of trophy hunting they might get up in arms about the promotion of this industry in this province.
Rick

[adriaticum]

You'll have to excuse me but does the GOABC not have charitable status !!?? They give out tax receipts so that their supporters can write off their "donations" against income don't they?? Just a thought ...

Are we all playing by the same rules??

When you are a member of an association you can write off that membership as a business expense.
It's different than making a donation and it being a "charitable donation"
Generally as an individual you cannot write a membership off your taxes.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I'm in the Williams Lake area. While not a large epicenter such as kamloops or PG, this area can draw from out west and out east in Horsefly and Likely. Maybe more so than a lot of other places, this region can gather the number of people required to make a dent for our cause. however, that being said, I'm prepared to travel to wherever is necessary to get our point across.

Rick

Good for you carpool, form a convoy on your way to the event, drape signs to let people know what it's all about. I am a former Chilcotin "boy", when people in that country get there "Irish" up they are a formidable force. I think the area will be well represented.

[HarryToolips]

Im in! When and were?
We're going to get this organized, just hold tight for a couple days bud, we'll know soon!

[Rob Chipman]

Adriaticum:

"...I am not 100% sold on this charitable status thing".

Yeah, who knows? Raincoast Conservation Foundation offers charitable receipts through something called "CanadaHelps". Raincoast does activist work. Not sure where you draw the line on activism vs. political action. Its clear that lots of environmental groups (funny how hunters, who have a vested interest in the environment and a long history of trying to preserve it, seem to be opposed to environmentalists) go to the wall a lot more than BCWF or WSS seems comfortable doing.

Personally, I'd say if a group like BCWF doesn't want to get in a knock down drag out fight with someone, fine. Let them do what they feel comfortable doing. If they do some good they'll have supporters (I feel they do good).

What's it really take to get a political pressure group up and running? 1) website 2) database of MLAs to contact 3) an idea of what the group wants to accomplish 4) a way to spread the word through a network 5) a knowledge base that members can add to (How are harvest levels determined? Who makes those decisions? How is allocation determined, and by who? What do other places do in terms of management, allocation, LEH, enhancement? Where do our license fees actually go? Who is susceptible to pressure? Who in the media will put the message out?)

I agree with you on the race to the bottom thing. I'd go further: I wouldn't want to be at a table with the ministry, BCWF, WSS and GOABC. I'd rather be someone that politicians don't want the ministry pissing off. Way more freedom of action in that.

[The Hermit]

You'll have to excuse me but does the GOABC not have charitable status !!?? They give out tax receipts so that their supporters can write off their "donations" against income don't they?? Just a thought ...

Are we all playing by the same rules??

No the GOABC is a registered lobby group. And at issue currently is a POLICY not a law. However, the BCWF and similar organizations need to be very careful... they sit at the table by invitation only and could be flicked off the guest list at anytime! It might be better for them to be in a supportive role, and frankly it would be a MUCH louder statement if regular people (voters) are seen to be protesting rather than some organization.

BTW - Take it to the Lawns of the Legislature and see if some of the Opposition MLAs would like to attend and hell maybe even speak! Unfortunately the Leg is not sitting until Feb 10 or 11th... but some of them will be in their offices in January.