Have you ever thought about it?

[Jagermeister]

I got to thinking about the speed that a grizzly will run in full charge. Goggled their speed and found on average most sites rate them about 30 to 35 mph. This equates to between 14.5 yds/sec and 17 yards/sec.
My mind wandered off to how fast could I cycle a bolt action rifle for three shots? So with rifle in hand and cocked, I instructed the Wife on the operation of a stopwatch. I told her to start the watch when I pulled the trigger and to stop it when she heard the third click of the firing pin. The result was 7.8 seconds. I kept the rifle shouldered during the test. Since there was no recoil, that effect is not taken into consideration. I will have to repeat the test at the range at a later date with live rounds.
I often thought my safe zone in a grizzly encounter to be 75 yards if the bear was approaching. Made me think maybe I was giving the bear too much of an advantage if it was in an aggressive attitude and a charge is on the way.
Going back to the results garnered from the bear speed to the time to cycle the rifle for three shots.
At 75 yards, it will take the grizzly 5.2 seconds to cover the distance at 30 mph and a slighter 4.4 seconds at 35 mph. At that distance there is no way I am going to be able to cycle for the third shot. The third shot will have to be the make sure shot if I am still standing.
It takes 3.9 seconds to chamber the second round. If I fired the first shot at 75 yards and for some reason that bear is still on a rampage closing distance, how far way is he going to be if all things go as it plays out? Measuring the distance covered per second by the time to chamber the second round (3.9 seconds), the bear will have closed the distance by 56 to 66 yard and will only be will be only 9 to 19 yards off when the second round is ready to fire. That’s pretty close and that brings another element into consideration, optics.
Suppose you have a high power scope with a magnification greater than 2X at the low end. You are going to have a hard time finding the lethal area of that bear in the scope for the second shot. I guess you could take Stephen Herrera’s advice and whip out the bear spray.
Say, did you know that grizzlies actually like the taste of pepper spray? Yes, they will lick it up if you spray it around your tent. They are not keen on pepper when they get the full meal deal in the schnoz and eyes

[Hanrahan]

I was charged by a grizzly up in the NWT. Long story short, it was a false charge or a real one that was interrupted when some customers I was guiding, who were hiding in the trees, saw him charge and ran out to yell and scream at him. When he saw that it wasn't just me and the other guide, he came to a screeching halt about 20 yards away - rethought his odds, turned tail and booked it out of there. I have never seen any animal move that fast in my life. It must have been over a hundred yards to the treeline and I think he covered it in about 3 seconds. Not only are they fast; they reach top speed in about 1 and a half strides. Needed a new pair of shorts after that one.
Anyway, my experience was that that particular bear gave lots of warning before charging. Pacing back and forth, jaw snapping, growling. Whatever you do, don't make eye contact at that point. lol That's what happened to me. He looked me in the eye and I could see him make up his mind to kill me. You can bet that I would have had him in the scope and got one off as soon as he started to charge if I'd had a gun at the time. That probably would have slowed him down enough to get a second into him. Problem is that I don't think most bear attacks happen like that - with a standoff across 100 yards of sand. My guess is that most people are surprised by the bear that gets them and might not have time to even lift the rifle, let alone get 2 or 3 shots off.

[markomoose]

Let's hope none of us are put in that position .

[Bugle M In]

I once sat off a main dirt road in the Koots.
Got their before 1st light, on a small hump about 5m above road height, just off the edge of the road with a small game trail running up beside past me into the woods behind.
We had an elk hanging in camp from 2 days before.
The spot where I sat was only 500 to 600m from camp.
I had spotted fresh Bull elk tracks on the road in the late evening the night before.
So, there I sat for 15 minutes in the dark.
Sun slowly rose, and I glassed the cut block way up high on the ridge in front of me across the river, as first light hit there first, while in front of me all was still dark.
I saw no elk as I glassed up the mountainside.
Than I looked into the cut block in front of me, as light entered the cut block in front of me, right across the road, getting ready to bugle and cow call.
Suddenly, I saw the hind end of an animal, only 40m away, and watching it slowly back out of some 10ft evergreens that had been transplanted a few years back.
I thought to myself, how the hell did that Moose manage to get there, that close, and me not even noticing it for the past 15 minutes???
This hind end of the creature was LARGE, and than I thought, wait a second, something is not right here??????
At that moment, this creature reveals itself fully......it's the biggest Grizz I have ever seen.
Honestly, had I been standing there beside it, I honestly believe that it's back bone would have been at my chest height ( I'm 5'9"), while it was on all 4 legs.....HUGE!!
At that moment, the bear starts to walk straight up to me, and I suspect he was going to come across the road and use the game trail right beside me.
He takes several paces straight up at me, and is now only 25m from me, and only 3 steps from touching the dirt road.
I 'm thinking.....this bear doesn't know I am here, and this is going to get real interesting, real quick!
And to boot, I ain't feeling to comfortable just holding a .270 w / 150g in my hands!, and with an old shitty redfield scope, that needed a lot of daylight to see thru!!!
Off goes the safety.
At that moment, I can hear a truck coming ( active logging on the main road ), heading towards us.
At the same time, the Grizz hears the truck coming as well.
The Grizz instantly becomes in an alert state!
He focuses on the sound, and than an image that is etched in my mind forever.
He stood tall, on 3 legs, while one front paw raised in the air in front of him at chin height, as if ready to swat something in mid air.
This bear, with a long beard, and that paw, absolutely huge, and claws sticking out incredibly far.....a sight to see!!
At that moment, I realize I might be in big s***!!!
How often have you driven down a dirt road, to see a bear run across the road...????????????????
I've see more bears run across the road, than they ever do running back into the woods on the same side you see them on....at least for me and my experiences!!
There is a slight S- Curve in the road, and the cut block extends about 250m beside the road in the direction the truck is coming towards.
It's also where my Dad is seated, on the same side of the road the Grizz is on, and the old man don't hear worth a S***!, 250m away at the outer edge of the cut block.
So many things were going thru my mind, but nothing made sense, but the rifle was up, and my crosshairs where on that Grizz....not the truck coming.!!
Than, the truck reaches the 1st bend in the S-Curve, 200m away, and now there is a visual for the Grizz.
In a flash of lightning, the raised paw swings thru the air, twisting his entire body, And he's off like you ain't ever seen!!!!!!!
Nothing can compare to the speed off this Grizz, his downright, "instant - on acceleration"!!! Full f'n tilt in a flash!!!!!!!.
Down right scary how fast this thing moved!!!
Lucky for me, he did the opposite of what I thought he was going to do, and took the slight downhill slope, straight away from me!!
I can't say for sure how much ground he covered in that second or two, that he rocketed off into.......but a 100m in no time at all!
It seemed like only 3 or 4 strides.
They haul ass, quicker and faster than I have ever seen from any horse at the track!
I don't think, after seeing that bear run, that I would of had much more of a chance than 1 shot......and than the rodeo would have begun.
And I would never think that it would have been even a very accurate shot.
That would have been a one shot deal! and I had the upper hand in this scenario, I saw him first!
Had I not see him, I never, at that close distance and the speed he moved, have ever of had a chance to fire a shot if he had charged (if the bear wanted to that is, type of scenerio )
I used to carry pepper spray, but with all the gear I haul around walking, and getting older, I had to drop a few things from the pack, pepper spray is gone.
Make sure the wind is in your favour if needed...many a hunters have put themselves out of commission in a bear attack while using pepper spray.....but it can be effective up close and full on!
I wonder what the return policy is if it doesn't work???!!!
One thing I like about the States ( one of the few things regarding their hunting ), as there isn't much I do like, is that they can, in some states carry a side arm.
I'll take the side arm over the pepper spray...but that's my opinion....so let the rants begin on that.
But I know a few guys who will openly admit to me...... privately, that they carry side arms regardless of the law, just for that reason.
And yes, I see more bow hunters with them than rifle guys, but I totally understand why they pack em.
And guys, I'm not trying to say that everyone is doing that.....but some do, and their intent isn't to harm anyone, other than for protection.
That Grizz incident is something I will never forget.
And ya, as soon as the bear was out of sight, I went to get my Dad, told him what had just happened, and we decided 1 elk was enough!
Packed up and left before a Grizz encounter occurred in camp by the meat poll.....and that bear was there for that...I am certain of that.

On a side note to that bear, a friends brother and his 2 buddies came up a day after we left, pitched camp right across the river, and than went out for an
evening hunt.
They encountered that same Grizz, they had never seen anything like it, and decided to pack up, and move to a different watershed to hunt the remainder of the week!
That Grizz was a freight train, The girth of him as he ran away was incredible, but that speed!!, simply put, like lightning!
And when out Elk hunting and cow calling/bugling for any Newbs here, wanting to try for Elk......just keep your eyes open around you, it's just not elk that find elk sounds interesting!

[Ride Red]

They are a powerful animal and move quick like the flash. I've watched where they've gone through blowdowns so thick you wouldn't dare to get through. We were on the Atnarko River and a sow crossed the river below the fisheries pool in about 3 bounds. Being charged by any bear isn't fun, but grizzlies don't seem to stop charging as quickly as black's do. My son and I had a close call 4 years ago which is something he will never forget(neither will I). I do agree with you Bugle M, you need to keep your wits about you when calling any animal as you never know what may show up for dinner. As far as timing your shot cycle, it's easy to time when you're practicing(and practice is great), but when all hell breaks loose in an instant, most people will struggle in such a short span of time, especially at anything under 50 yards.

[webley]

Happened to me at 10yds,2 shots with 444 marlin. Scary. Steve!


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/labb_photo/DSC03022-1_zps520d177e.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/labb_photo/media/DSC03022-1_zps520d177e.jpg.html)

[adriaticum]

Your only hope is that grizzly gets scared of your first shot and runs away.
Bolt action is no grizzly defence.
If you see a bear that's aware of you and showing interest you should act right away and not wait for the bear to start running. Shoot one in the air around him and if he doesn't bolt kill him.

[ydouask]

Have you ever thought about it? :?: Well, I sure have since our older son and his hunting partner ( Rattler & Brambles) were tracked down and attacked in their tent several years ago. I now carry a 12 ga. loaded with slugs when bow hunting elk. That may well be just wishful comfort when one realizes just how little time one would have in an attack situation ! :shock::shock::shock: .

[Walksalot]

To my knowledge I have never seen a grizzly bear in the wild. I have, however, seen many black bear and had one false charge. It came out of the bush about 25 yards away and stopped about 10 feet away. It had 3 cubs hidden in the bush. I was unarmed at the time but if I had a rifle in my hands I would not have had time to bring it up. Unless you witness it first hand you have absolutely no idea how fast they can move.

[Big Lew]

I've not had any serious incidents with either grizzlies or black bears although I've seen
several grizzlies and a great many black bears. I watched a large seemingly overweight
grizzly peacefully browsing blueberries and then hit warp speed in the blink of an eye, not
stopping or slowing down until out of sight several hundred yards away. It's just scarey
how they can do that. My buddy and I used to chase black bears near a garbage dump
while on our fast and conditioned horses...they can run the same speed. I've also watched
black bears on several occasions run full out downhill through partly re-grown logging slashes
while frequently tripping. They would do complete frontal rollovers without slowing down.
It's no wonder they are guilty of killing so many herbivores.

[M.Dean]

Happened to me at 10yds,2 shots with 444 marlin. Scary. Steve!


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/labb_photo/DSC03022-1_zps520d177e.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/labb_photo/media/DSC03022-1_zps520d177e.jpg.html) I've never being charged by a Grizzly, and hopefully never will be! Could I have keep my cool long enough to fire twice like this gentleman did? I like to think so, but I've been wrong about things before! I'd think the guys that do survive a close charge like Webley here did, have the ability to assess the problem in less than a quarter second and react that fast also. I think fear first, then panic are a guys worst enemy when this happens. The second you see or hear the Bear coming at you, your first instinct should be to raise your weapon to face the charge, the second is to have the balls to pull the trigger! At ten yards with a lever action 444, that had to be about the fastest shooting a guy can do! Your one of the few that can say they won a full scale, close charge by a Grizzly and survived, my hat is off to you Sir! Every year we hear of fatal bear attacks, I could think of no worse death!

[hunter1947]

Thats why you want to see them before they see you if not and you get it from the grizzly bear at close range bear spay is what you need in your hand..

[pete_k]

Even if you hit a Grizzly with a direct heart shot they can run 100 yards (about 1/4 of it up hill) post injury.
.300wm 185g partition at 80 yards.
They are powerful indeed.

[Wagonmaster]

Saw a hunting show some time back where they did the following experiment. They placed a hunter with a rifle at the bottom of a gradual slope. They then rolled a large ball, perhaps five feet in diameter, from the top of the slope down towards the hunter who was supposed to fire at it as many times as he could. As I remember, the ball started out perhaps 75 yards away. Result. No bullet holes in the ball. In other words, it is not easy to hit a target from that range moving erratically down towards you. Have to say it was not a very comforting demonstration. As a side note, I think the comment earlier about not finding the target through the scope is a major consideration. I have scope mounts that raise the scope high enough to use the rifle sights underneath, a feature that I think is a good one.

[Bugle M In]

no one can guarantee shot placement in that sort of situation.
And many a creature, if hit well, run long distances still.
Head shot, spine shot at that close range, would be what I assume would stop it in its tracks!!

So to summarize, in a blink of an eye, at very close range, an instant "Drop shot", would be a "spine or head" shot = a Lucky shot!! ....for most.

[rainman]

Your only hope is that grizzly gets scared of your first shot and runs away.
Bolt action is no grizzly defence.
If you see a bear that's aware of you and showing interest you should act right away and not wait for the bear to start running. Shoot one in the air around him and if he doesn't bolt kill him.

been involved in 2 encounters now, neither was much fun,dont know if the first shot is going to go into the air anymore,if you think rollercoasters or watching the oilers is scary you aint been really scared yet.

[Ranger95]

The only thing I would trust in a full on charge is my dads double - if it's good enough to put an elephant on its arse - bring it on grizzly bear!

You guys can play all day long with your lever action - "cowboy guns" - I'll just stick to his old faithful!

[Peter Pepper]

Maybe a semi-auto like a BAR

[tigrr]

The grizzly can out run a race horse in a short 100 to 200 yards. You don't hear much about it because the outfitters keep their mouth closed. Don't want the clients finding out they are not safe on a horse. I love my semi auto. Especially when I get to load it!!
Hunting in grizzly country brings on a whole new prospective. Came across a pile of grizzly scat that would fill a 2 and1/2 gallon pail. The hunting group later said he was high fiving all the other bears as he walked down the road. Sharing the top spot with cougars, wolves and bears keeps us on our toes.

[Paulyman]

My Uncle was charged by a Grizzly years ago, he said his reactions were very clear, almost as if in slow motion. The grizzly charged and he shot at about 10 yard, by the time the grizzly did a face plant in front of him and endo'd he reloaded and ejected a 30-06 cartridge high above on the bank behind him, he says he didn't even remember chambering the second round it was so quick.

[Jagermeister]

A friend of mine was hunting years ago up Ahbau Lake during cow moose season. He had two buddies that were nubbies with him. The two hunters were together down in the swamp area trying to get this cow moose which was more or less heading in John's direction. With anticipation, John readied to fire when the cow was to emerge. However, what came out of the poplar grove was a grizzly at a distance of about 10 yards. The bear had not seen John but was more interested in the commotion happening below. It decided to vacate the area which happened to be in the direction of John. It was standing and as it turned it saw John and let out a roar. The bullets started flying. John was carrying a Winchester 30.30. He emptied the magazine and the bear dropped with it's nose at John's toes.
John was about 23 or so and had dark hair before this incident. It turned white just about overnight. He continued to hunt periodically.

[adriaticum]

Maybe a semi-auto like a BAR

Semi auto shotgun with 4-5 slugs would be my #1 choice.

[RadHimself]

U'b be suprised how little stopping power slugs actually have

[Bugle M In]

A 45/70???? I think that is the caliber description, would be my gun of choice.
Lever action I guess???? although I feel comfortable getting a bolt action to cycle very quick...and,
without having the gun leave my cheek....I would have to try to see which is more comfortable.
What I do know, is to have a rifle which you can rely on to not jam when cycling very quickly.
I trust my Husky .270 til I die, to never jam!
My weatherby Accumark 300win mag is what I carry in Grizz Country, BUT, I will never trust it not to jam!!!
It has given me a few concerns already about jamming, and the thro of the bolt is HUGE!!
My fingers run a chance of getting stuck between the bolt and scope....if I am not careful about finger placement when cycling a round.
The Mark 5 is much better on that point alone!...only a short lift of the bolt up , before going back.
Just some thing for prospective buyers to consider when purchasing a rifle.
At the time all was good,... once the scope was on....not so good!..
So keep that in mind....

[adriaticum]

Sure, we had this discussion before and 45/70 would certainly be the best caliber.
But you have to wonder about the "speed of delivery".
I would opt for a semi auto action over a lever action.
We are talking 2-3 seconds max and I think you could deliver twice as much lead with a semi auto.
If they made a semi auto 45/70 that would be exceptional.

[Bugle M In]

Semi jam....at times...I've seen it happen....but that always the risk with any rifle in any action, I guess??

[Fred1]

Sure, we had this discussion before and 45/70 would certainly be the best caliber.
But you have to wonder about the "speed of delivery".
I would opt for a semi auto action over a lever action.
We are talking 2-3 seconds max and I think you could deliver twice as much lead with a semi auto.
If they made a semi auto 45/70 that would be exceptional.

Or better yet with a clip!

[Fred1]

Yes semi s jam... I have had lots of clients that use them. I think they are terrible. I have seen dozens of jams! I just dont have any faith in them, I'll stick to my lever gun for bears. As for the bear charge - only been bluffed once - it was a really chickin shit bluff too. However this last fall I was stalked by a 6-7 foot young Gbear. Once I figured out what he was up to it was really unnerving. I kept moving tried to keep him in sight and tried to keep the wind at my back - he was looping in closer and close trying to put us in the wind - we had been seeing this bear for a few days - he was the most brazen cocky bugger. Thought he was King of the roost for sure. (I dont think the big boys were around to put him in his place) anyway we finally got to a place on the river for an well earned boat extraction. I have also been lucky to see those bears in full flight across several types of ground from thick Fraser river willow (which they just plow thru like a speeding tank) to open meadow - and holy crap they can move! Not so much the open speed they have but the zero to full speed is instant! So you guys that have been charged and got the shots off, you know how lucky you really are, for those of us who havent had to shoot a charge, its all theory... Be smart out there!

[caddisguy]

Charge within 50M I figure I'd only have time for one decent shot with the bolt action 30-06. If I had time to fire one just to make noise I would, but wouldn't waste time aiming because I'd want to be ready when it's close. I would wait until it was around 7 yards, point and slap that trigger like a shotgun, hope to heck it doesn't the ammo doesn't misfire like the last time I tried to shoot a bear from a few yards away and try not to get run over or mauled too badly. I worry more about crappy drivers, rockslides and falling trees/limbs (in that order) more though.

[adriaticum]

I think you can also find those 30/06 semi remi.
Yes shotguns jam and are finnicky. But if you find the sweet spot and keep them clean they work.