Duck Toller, good bird good?

[hunter fisher]

me and the girlfriend would like to get a dog, shes got her heart set on nova scotia duck toller, which i dont mind aslong as they are good hunting dogs

i know they are good for ducks, but what about pheasants?

anyones experience and knowledge would be appreciated

[Foxton Gundogs]

Tollers from good solid hunting lines are good small water retrievers as well as upland flushing dogs. As with all dogs do your homework buy from a reputable breeder who hunts their dogs.
Good luck

[Iron Glove]

They are great all 'round bird dogs and super "pets" as long as you are prepared to put in the time and training.
There are a number of Toller owners here :smile: and a few breeders too, suggest you contact Kasomor on this site, she is very involved in breeding, training and hunting Tollers.

[Cdn-Redneck]

I got mine from Kasomor and they make great pets and hunting dogs. Make sure you have the time and energy to keep up with one though. Linda's dog Tikka is a fabulous hunting dog and is a champion in all venues.

[bigredchev]

having grown up with two they are excellent dogs first and foremost. Very people orientated and pleasers, although I never hunted with mine they both had excellent instincts.

[MichelD]

They can be undisciplined if poorly trained.

I have seen lots of people with well behaved duck tollers who listen and are calm and collected. My hunting buddy has one as a pet and without any training at all, it retrieves. It's a little excitable when I first drop in, but calms down after a minute.

One of my neighbours on the other hand, has had one duck toller after the other since I moved here in 1988 and they have all been hellions. She thinks she knows how to handle dogs but doesn't have a friggin' clue. Her dogs constantly bark, do not listen to commands and jump on people at any opportunity. When I stop to speak to her on the street her dog tries to jump up on me and she pulls back on the leash so that the dog is standing on its hind legs and she keeps saying "Leave it it, Maxxie" "Leave it." She learned this "Leave it" stuff at a doggie training class or out of a book or something. Doesn't work. Neither does spraying the dog with water as a disciplinary measure. I saw her try that too.

She constantly talks to the dog. I hear it going on all day and consequently the dog barks all day because it thinks this is normal.

Just saying. Get a grip on the dog's behaviour early and you'll have a good dog.

[SPEYMAN]

All dogs can be a problem if untrained. Tollers are no different than any other breed. Well trained dogs are a treat to be around, untrained dogs are the fault and responsibility of the owner. Some people should not own any kind of dog.

[Phil]

I bought a Logotto. Best water dog I've owned. Loves to hunt birds too. Very smart and easily trainned. Check em out.

[Iron Glove]

They can be undisciplined if poorly trained.

I have seen lots of people with well behaved duck tollers who listen and are calm and collected. My hunting buddy has one as a pet and without any training at all, it retrieves. It's a little excitable when I first drop in, but calms down after a minute.

One of my neighbours on the other hand, has had one duck toller after the other since I moved here in 1988 and they have all been hellions. She thinks she knows how to handle dogs but doesn't have a friggin' clue. Her dogs constantly bark, do not listen to commands and jump on people at any opportunity. When I stop to speak to her on the street her dog tries to jump up on me and she pulls back on the leash so that the dog is standing on its hind legs and she keeps saying "Leave it it, Maxxie" "Leave it." She learned this "Leave it" stuff at a doggie training class or out of a book or something. Doesn't work. Neither does spraying the dog with water as a disciplinary measure. I saw her try that too.

She constantly talks to the dog. I hear it going on all day and consequently the dog barks all day because it thinks this is normal.

Just saying. Get a grip on the dog's behaviour early and you'll have a good dog.

Like all dog breeds, Tollers need training, it's just that Tollers don't necessarily respond to the same training techniques as some other breeds.
Sounds like both Maxxie and your neighbour both need training. :grin:
I simply blame our Tollers occasional bad behaviour on their red "hair" as we all know that red heads, particularly females are pretty wild.
We had a very highly respected PHd dog trainer ( yes, she has a Doctorate in "Dogology ) in for a session with our two to help us deal with a few issues. She has done research on red furred animals and said basically the same. She also said that Tollers are one of the few breeds that can go zero to sixty and back to zero in a flash. The other two noted breeds were Border Collies and Pit Bulls.

[Cdn-Redneck]

Tollers learn very quick and are easy to train, that being said if you aren't going to put in the time they will train themselves which is where the bad behaviour comes out. I have some blind manners to clean up now that pheasant season is over. She would rather find birds than wait for them to come to her. We don't have the barking issues either, a toller barking in the back yard would be enough to drive anybody crazy. I hunt my dog 4-5 days a week and we camp about 50 nights per year they are very adaptable to what ever you do. If you jog they are great for that or even a long walk. They are the border collie of the retriever family. There are not a lot of hunting breeders around but they are there, and a couple who run field events. If you would like to meet mine you are welcome to come on out. She is 2 1/2 now and has settled down a bit but still has a ton of energy.

[labguy]

A couple of points.

I agree with Speymans post when he says "some" people shouldn't own a dog but I'll take it one step further......MOST people shouldn't own a dog.

The notion that Tollers should be trained differently than any other Retriever is patently false. They respond well, like any dog, to consistent, fair, humane and modern up to date methods.

The biggest problem I see with many Tollers is some of their owners who seem to be under the ridiculous, misguided impression that these dogs are somehow unique and "special" and require an approach different than other Retrievers.

Tollers are dogs first and foremost and should be given the respect they deserve to be treated like dogs......not like some furry human.

I've had hunting dogs for 50 plus years and have trained and competed successfully with Retrievers in Canada and occasionally the U.S.for the past 15 years. I hunt birds 30 to 50 days per year and have for the past 30 years. I have more experience than most when it comes to Retrievers and feel somewhat qualified to comment on this.

If you are serious about making an informed choice, I'd take Cdn-Redneck up on his offer to meet and maybe get introduced to Linda (Kasomor) and her dogs. This will give you a decent insight into what to expect from this breed as a hunting prospect and if it would be a good fit for you and your girlfriend.

Good luck with your search.

[Iron Glove]

Wondered when my good friend Lab Guy would pop up, good to hear from you again. :lol:
Having spent considerable time training our two Tollers in many areas including obedience, Agility and retrieving, I will politely suggest that different breeds respond differently to different methods. Regarding Tollers, one only needs to refer to the Nova Scotia Duck Toller's Association "fact" sheet about Tollers to see what those, with much, much more experience than I say about methods. Not saying that what Lab Guy says about "consistent, etc. ......" is wrong at all, nor suggesting that Tollers are "unique or special", just suggesting that there are considerations that should be taken into account with different breeds. If that is "ridiculous or misguided" then I am more than happy to add that to my resume. ;) As I have stated on occasion, we have had a number of trainers involved in our life with Tollers from basic puppy classes, to hunting retrieving to behavioural situations whose qualifications range from basic to Doctoral. Some dealt specifically with breed characteristics.
And yes, many people shouldn't own dogs and many people shouldn't post on the internet too.

[Cdn-Redneck]

I guess the ultimate thing to ask a first time toller owner is "would you get another toller?" My answer is yes I would. When my dog was younger and still kind of had that cute puppy look to her, we were camping with a group of friends and one of the ladies in our group seen her and said "she is so cute, I want one" after a couple hours she was saying " is she always like that!!" She was referring to the energy level of my dog she had an on button that stayed on all day. She has calmed down a bit now that she is almost 2 1/2 but she still has a pretty good level of energy.

[labguy]

Wondered when my good friend Lab Guy would pop up, good to hear from you again. :lol:
Having spent considerable time training our two Tollers in many areas including obedience, Agility and retrieving, I will politely suggest that different breeds respond differently to different methods. Regarding Tollers, one only needs to refer to the Nova Scotia Duck Toller's Association "fact" sheet about Tollers to see what those, with much, much more experience than I say about methods. Not saying that what Lab Guy says about "consistent, etc. ......" is wrong at all, nor suggesting that Tollers are "unique or special", just suggesting that there are considerations that should be taken into account with different breeds. If that is "ridiculous or misguided" then I am more than happy to add that to my resume. ;) As I have stated on occasion, we have had a number of trainers involved in our life with Tollers from basic puppy classes, to hunting retrieving to behavioural situations whose qualifications range from basic to Doctoral. Some dealt specifically with breed characteristics.
And yes, many people shouldn't own dogs and many people shouldn't post on the internet too.

Did your mother drop you on your head as a child? The man asked about hunting......not obedience, not agility. As far as breed specific trainers are concerned there is a lucrative industry developed around misguided people who buy into that nonsense.,..obviously they got a few bucks out of you.

As I said, the biggest problem with Tollers is some of the people who own them.

[FirePower]

A couple of points.

I agree with Speymans post when he says "some" people shouldn't own a dog but I'll take it one step further......MOST people shouldn't own a dog.

The notion that Tollers should be trained differently than any other Retriever is patently false. They respond well, like any dog, to consistent, fair, humane and modern up to date methods.

The biggest problem I see with many Tollers is some of their owners who seem to be under the ridiculous, misguided impression that these dogs are somehow unique and "special" and require an approach different than other Retrievers.

Tollers are dogs first and foremost and should be given the respect they deserve to be treated like dogs......not like some furry human.

I've had hunting dogs for 50 plus years and have trained and competed successfully with Retrievers in Canada and occasionally the U.S.for the past 15 years. I hunt birds 30 to 50 days per year and have for the past 30 years. I have more experience than most when it comes to Retrievers and feel somewhat qualified to comment on this.

If you are serious about making an informed choice, I'd take Cdn-Redneck up on his offer to meet and maybe get introduced to Linda (Kasomor) and her dogs. This will give you a decent insight into what to expect from this breed as a hunting prospect and if it would be a good fit for you and your girlfriend.

Good luck with your search.

As the son of a kennel master and gundog trainer, I have been associated with gundogs since I could walk, which is coming to close to 70 yrs to care to remember. I have one thing to say regarding this post. Listen closely lads this gentleman knows of what he speaks!


Did your mother drop you on your head as a child? The man asked about hunting......not obedience, not agility. As far as breed specific trainers are concerned there is a lucrative industry developed around misguided people who buy into that nonsense.,..obviously they got a few bucks out of you.

As I said, the biggest problem with Tollers is some of the people who own them.

Although I agree with this in principle I would add the following. The part of training that does very from breed to breed is the firmness one can apply to the teaching. One can not go at a Spaniel the same as you would with a Chesapeake and even within the diffrent, say, retriever breeds one must modify the "harshness" with which they applycorrection. that being stated a decent trainer should be able to read his pupil and adapt accordingly.

[labguy]

Although I agree with this in principle I would add the following. The part of training that does very from breed to breed is the firmness one can apply to the teaching. One can not go at a Spaniel the same as you would with a Chesapeake and even within the diffrent, say, retriever breeds one must modify the "harshness" with which they applycorrection. that being stated a decent trainer should be able to read his pupil and adapt accordingly.

Good post and I will add the following. The days of harshness in training are gone the way of the dodo bird. Today's modern Retriever training is based on teaching and reinforcing what has been taught with pressure. A dog who understands pressure can take a strong correction if it understands what it is for with no adverse effects on its momentum and attitude no matter what the breed may be. The level of correction is adjusted for the individual dog, not the breed. The key is the dogs understanding.

Your statement about being able to read the pupil and adapting accordingly absolutely nails it. Excellent point.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Good post and I will add the following. The days of harshness in training are gone the way of the dodo bird. Today's modern Retriever training is based on teaching and reinforcing what has been taught with pressure. A dog who understands pressure can take a strong correction if it understands what it is for with no adverse effects on its momentum and attitude no matter what the breed may be. The level of correction is adjusted for the individual dog, not the breed. The key is the dogs understanding.

Your statement about being able to read the pupil and adapting accordingly absolutely nails it. Excellent point.

I get what you are saying LG we have had enough conversations to know we are on the same training page, but I also understand what FP says. Being both a Retriever and Spaniel man I can say for a certainty that when I correct my retrievers I can do so in a harsh tone if it is required and get that toothy "smile" from even my 6 month old pup, where as the mere raising of my voice or harshrning(is that a word lol) will turn my seasoned Spaniel to a puddle. I don't want to speak for FP but being a Spaniel man I think that was what he was referring to by "harsh".

[labguy]

I get what you are saying LG we have had enough conversations to know we are on the same training page, but I also understand what FP says. Being both a Retriever and Spaniel man I can say for a certainty that when I correct my retrievers I can do so in a harsh tone if it is required and get that toothy "smile" from even my 6 month old pup, where as the mere raising of my voice or harshrning(is that a word lol) will turn my seasoned Spaniel to a puddle. I don't want to speak for FP but being a Spaniel man I think that was what he was referring to by "harsh".

I thought I was agreeing with FP.:|

Anyway, I get your point and agree there are certain temperament generalities associated with specific breeds, however I have had Labradors that cringe with a raised voice.

My former hunting partner, now deceased, had Spaniels. One of his dogs was like a Timex watch.......took a lickin and kept on Tickin (very old school training). One of the men I hunt with now has a Spaniel that is as hard headed as most Chesapeakes I've ever seen.

I used to hunt with a man who had a female Chesapeake that was as soft a dog as you could find. I trained a Toller a few years back that was as tough a dog as you will ever find.

I guess my point is that every dog, regardless of breed is a unique entity. The level of correction/harshness is(or should be) adapted to the individual dog and his distinct temperament.....not his breed. As FP said, read the pupil and adapt accordingly.

We're probably all saying exactely the same thing in a different way.:wink: Hope your educating those ducks on the Island....we're doing OK around here.

[Iron Glove]

Did your mother drop you on your head as a child? The man asked about hunting......not obedience, not agility. As far as breed specific trainers are concerned there is a lucrative industry developed around misguided people who buy into that nonsense.,..obviously they got a few bucks out of you.

As I said, the biggest problem with Tollers is some of the people who own them.

I see you still have that same wonderful sense of humour LG. :D
But, alas, still lacking in comprehension.
As stated, we have had training in a variety of canine endeavors including hunting.
No one, other than you said anything about "breed specific trainers" but rather "considerations" and "breed characteristics", i.e. adapting the training methods to fit the breed and / or dog.
But then, as you and I have chatted about before, some people are unable, or unwilling to accept that there are people out there who just might know something, and be able to back it up. I could, if I so desired, send you a lengthy report on our Tollers, prepared by an expert in dog behaviour ( a Doctorate no less ) which deals with breed characteristics and traits relative to training. You might however, not accept it as after all, your expertise might exceed hers. ;)
All the best, and BTW, I consider myself a decent Toller owner, not the best, not the worst, I have no pretensions of greatness.
If yer gonna sling 'em, ya better be able to catch 'em too.

[Cdn-Redneck]

www.kasomor.com (http://www.kasomor.com) is the best place to start for local dogs that are of hunting stock. Another one I looked at is http://www.dalryducktollers.com. A Calgary breeder is http://www.seabrighttollers.com. There are new rules about getting dogs from the states but here is a breeder in oregon http://www.tinamoutollers.com. Hunting toller litters don't come by very often so look around. There are a number of show breeders locally that produce top notch show dogs but if you want a hunting dog get hunting stock. This breeder is or recently has been president of the toller club of canada she does do field work with her dogs but isn't an active hunter it shows they have a pup looking for a home. http://www.rainkisttollers.ca. Again you are welcome to meet Lacey. If you go to the kasomor Facebook page there are pictures of her there. If you would like to see her hunt we can make a day of it too. She is far from perfect and that is due to her owner trainer not her natural ability.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I thought I was agreeing with FP.:|

Anyway, I get your point and agree there are certain temperament generalities associated with specific breeds, however I have had Labradors that cringe with a raised voice.

My former hunting partner, now deceased, had Spaniels. One of his dogs was like a Timex watch.......took a lickin and kept on Tickin (very old school training). One of the men I hunt with now has a Spaniel that is as hard headed as most Chesapeakes I've ever seen.

I used to hunt with a man who had a female Chesapeake that was as soft a dog as you could find. I trained a Toller a few years back that was as tough a dog as you will ever find.

I guess my point is that every dog, regardless of breed is a unique entity. The level of correction/harshness is(or should be) adapted to the individual dog and his distinct temperament.....not his breed. As FP said, read the pupil and adapt accordingly.

We're probably all saying exactely the same thing in a different way.:wink: Hope your educating those ducks on the Island....we're doing OK around here.

Oh sorry LG I didn't mean it to sound like I thought you were disagreeing with FP just more speaking my experience to the overall scheme of it and I agree there are exceptions to every rule that's why the reading of dogs as individuals is so important in training. I think the 3 of us are on the same page I just didn't put it to well in my post. Yah we are not doing bad here either, we really need to get together and rain fire on them one of these days

[labguy]

I see you still have that same wonderful sense of humour LG. :D
But, alas, still lacking in comprehension.
As stated, we have had training in a variety of canine endeavors including hunting.
No one, other than you said anything about "breed specific trainers" but rather "considerations" and "breed characteristics", i.e. adapting the training methods to fit the breed and / or dog.
But then, as you and I have chatted about before, some people are unable, or unwilling to accept that there are people out there who just might know something, and be able to back it up. I could, if I so desired, send you a lengthy report on our Tollers, prepared by an expert in dog behaviour ( a Doctorate no less ) which deals with breed characteristics and traits relative to training. You might however, not accept it as after all, your expertise might exceed hers.
All the best, and BTW, I consider myself a decent Toller owner, not the best, not the worst, I have no pretensions of greatness.
If yer gonna sling 'em, ya better be able to catch 'em too.

If you bought into that "doctorate in dog behavior" nonsense, you are living in a different universe. :shock:

Just where is this prestigious "degree" issued from? The University of "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute"?

I'm tiring of you yet again (surprised?) but in closing am reminded of the following quote:

"It is far better to remain silent and let the world think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" (Unknown)8-)

Apologies to the original poster. Obviously there is a bit of history with this character.

Beam me up Scotty........:wink::wink:

[Iron Glove]

If you bought into that "doctorate in dog behavior" nonsense, you are living in a different universe. :shock:

Just where is this prestigious "degree" issued from? The University of "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute"?

I'm tiring of you yet again (surprised?) but in closing am reminded of the following quote:

"It is far better to remain silent and let the world think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" (Unknown)8-)

Apologies to the original poster. Obviously there is a bit of history with this character.

Beam me up Scotty........:wink::wink:

Scottish Agricultural College. Post Graduate Degree in applied animal behaviour & animal welfare.
American Veterinarian Society For Animal Welfare
Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors
Do you want more?
Maybe some papers presented?
Trumps you by a bit I would imagine?
BTW I provided a copy of the assessment and recommendations made to a number of fellow Toller owners, including some Club Members and they were quite impressed and appreciated it.
You have a problem with accepting any statement that doesn't fit your narrow perception of what is acceptable, only have to go back through some earlier history where you question, for example, my Daughter's qualifications re choosing a suitable Lab Breeder ( who as you discovered was a very "suitable" breeder ) for her Lab. . Of course, her experience as a Vet Assistant and an Animal Technologist dealing in things like genome therapy, canine diseases such as parvo, animal propogation, etc. provided her with no ability in selecting a suitable breeder. :wink:
Don't get me wrong, I respect your considerable experience in training, hunting and breeding, I honestly do. I just wish you would stop trying to be more than you are and accept that others have valid points to make at times, even though they might be contrary to yours.
And yes, I do love that quote, I try to follow it, you might be wise to do the same.

[labguy]

Scottish Agricultural College. Post Graduate Degree in applied animal behaviour & animal welfare.
American Veterinarian Society For Animal Welfare
Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors
Do you want more?
Maybe some papers presented?
Trumps you by a bit I would imagine?
BTW I provided a copy of the assessment and recommendations made to a number of fellow Toller owners, including some Club Members and they were quite impressed and appreciated it.
You have a problem with accepting any statement that doesn't fit your narrow perception of what is acceptable, only have to go back through some earlier history where you question, for example, my Daughter's qualifications re choosing a suitable Lab Breeder ( who as you discovered was a very "suitable" breeder ) for her Lab. . Of course, her experience as a Vet Assistant and an Animal Technologist dealing in things like genome therapy, canine diseases such as parvo, animal propogation, etc. provided her with no ability in selecting a suitable breeder. :wink:
Don't get me wrong, I respect your considerable experience in training, hunting and breeding, I honestly do. I just wish you would stop trying to be more than you are and accept that others have valid points to make at times, even though they might be contrary to yours.
And yes, I do love that quote, I try to follow it, you might be wise to do the same.

Your daughter could not possibly have asked the questions I was referring to in that thread or she would not have recommended that breeder because, at that time, they did not test for the diseases I mentioned.

A little checking with your daughter as to what specific questions she asked would have clarified that point?

A simple phone call to that breeder would have made you aware that they did not test for those specific defects I mentioned. I did call so I know what the answer is. Instead you choose to continue arguing about something you knew nothing about and recommending a breeder based on you ignorance of modern health testing.

In other words you were wrong then and your even more wrong now.

As far as the dog behaviorist is concerned, what in the world did you do to those poor Tollers that would require hiring somebody like that?

As far as the professional credentials you cited, a little research into the types of degrees you mentioned should make it clear that putting the word "doctor" with them is a pretty big stretch. Just about anyone can get a degree in just about anything over the net.

I have no doubt that your dogs needed a behavioral expert.

Another quote I should have paid closer attention to:

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience"

[Iron Glove]

Your daughter could not possibly have asked the questions I was referring to in that thread or she would not have recommended that breeder because, at that time, they did not test for the diseases I mentioned.

A little checking with your daughter as to what specific questions she asked would have clarified that point?

A simple phone call to that breeder would have made you aware that they did not test for those specific defects I mentioned. I did call so I know what the answer is. Instead you choose to continue arguing about something you knew nothing about and recommending a breeder based on you ignorance of modern health testing.

In other words you were wrong then and your even more wrong now.

As far as the dog behaviorist is concerned, what in the world did you do to those poor Tollers that would require hiring somebody like that?

As far as the professional credentials you cited, a little research into the types of degrees you mentioned should make it clear that putting the word "doctor" with them is a pretty big stretch. Just about anyone can get a degree in just about anything over the net.

I have no doubt that your dogs needed a behavioral expert.

Another quote I should have paid closer attention to:

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience"

You really should reread your diatribes before putting pen to paper.
The thread about the Breeder started out as you objecting to a comment that the dogs were "nice". You didn't think that was appropriate, in spite of what the OP had simply asked, and as per your M.O. you ran down the person, rather than simply stating ( as you did later ) that there are tests that should ( at least in your opinion, and I don't disagree there ) be performed by the Breeder. No, you had to get personal as a number of P.M.'s to me commented on. They thought you were a twit.
The testing that that particular Breeder did at the time my Daughter got her Lab there were well within normal requirements at the time. You note that I also suggested everyone do there due diligence.
Unable to accept that, you then went on to suggest that I didn't care about testing with my dogs to which I responded that not only did I care, and that my dogs had been fully tested to the standards at the time, but that we had also just had our male undergo two other tests that go beyond the suggested regime. That would seem to have indicated that I do care about testing. Rather than apologize, even begrudgingly, you cut and ran.
You might want to revisit your comments about the "degrees" granted and the College noted, it is not an internet institution. I suggest you do your research before making a fool of yourself. Again. You might wish however, to show your comparative high level of canine knowledge by posting your curriculum vitae.
When we experience problems, be it with our car, the law, our health or our dogs, we seek out the best expertise available and that is what we did with the good Doctor. She came very highly recommended, her qualifications were impeccable and yes, she was also expensive. She was of immense help to us. Could we have achieved the same results by posting here, possibly but we prefer to use professionals as stated.
Rather than "argue" factually, you simply want to deride and disparage the individual, that's fine if that's your style but it simply proves that your argument is pretty well baseless.
I appreciate your wealth of knowledge and admire your passion with dogs.
Someone suggested to me you have anger management problems, obviously you don't "like" me and I really don't have a problem with that.
I also have many quotes that would be applicable to use however I prefer to keep the discussion at an intelligent level.

[edgy]

I honestly have to wonder after reading this thread, if Labguy would pack such arrogance and attitude standing face to face with Iron Glove? Kudos to you Iron Glove, for keeping your part of the discussion civil and respectful, especially since you actually own a Toller,lol

[Cdn-Redneck]

I honestly have to wonder after reading this thread, if Labguy would pack such arrogance and attitude standing face to face with Iron Glove? Kudos to you Iron Glove, for keeping your part of the discussion civil and respectful, especially since you actually own a Toller,lol
I am pretty sure this has nothing to do with a toller.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I honestly have to wonder after reading this thread, if Labguy would pack such arrogance and attitude standing face to face with Iron Glove? Kudos to you Iron Glove, for keeping your part of the discussion civil and respectful, especially since you actually own a Toller,lol

I have a great deal of experience with gundog, I was born into the litter so to speak, but I can tell you that I learn something every time I talk to Labguy, He has more knowledge packed between his ears than most of us can hope to have and I know he has experience with a good cross section of the Toller breed. I'm pretty sure he would have no trouble expressing his opinion no matter who he was standing face to face with. Just setting the record straight here.

[Iron Glove]

I have a great deal of experience with gundog, I was born into the litter so to speak, but I can tell you that I learn something every time I talk to Labguy, He has more knowledge packed between his ears than most of us can hope to have and I know he has experience with a good cross section of the Toller breed. I'm pretty sure he would have no trouble expressing his opinion no matter who he was standing face to face with. Just setting the record straight here.

Fox, I for one certainly don't doubt that and I do have the utmost respect for his experience and knowledge but as we've discussed before, the attitude really needs an adjustment. When called out, it just gets personal and demeaning and that doesn't do anyone any good. And then he retreats.
Anyway, I've posted the qualifications of the good Doctor that helped us with some dog / Toller issues and those professional qualifications are likely unchallengeable, no matter what LG wants to suggest.

[labguy]

Fox, I for one certainly don't doubt that and I do have the utmost respect for his experience and knowledge but as we've discussed before, the attitude really needs an adjustment. When called out, it just gets personal and demeaning and that doesn't do anyone any good. And then he retreats.
Anyway, I've posted the qualifications of the good Doctor that helped us with some dog / Toller issues and those professional qualifications are likely unchallengeable, no matter what LG wants to suggest.

No retreating here bud. I simply tire of not being heard. It's like pounding my head against a wall. If you were a dog, I'd have to turn the collar up to double 6 to get a reasonable degree of cognition.(Just kidding).

Like I said in the past, dialoging with you reminds me of my ex wife....and not in a good way:-D.

I would actually like to have a face to face with you one day. For some reason your perception and recollection of past conversations between us is quite a bit different than mine. Maybe some dialogue would clear things up a bit.

I travel through Princeton occasionally and would meet with you whenever is convenient. Conversely, if your ever in the Okanagan near Vernon, let's have a coffee and see if we can find something to argue about in person. The optimist in me forces me to believe you couldn't possibly be as thick skulled in real life as you are on this site.:wink:

I'll give you a trained dog demonstration if your interested. Maybe we'll find some common ground..........

Brian

PS. I couldn't find the post graduate degree you spoke of listed on the Scottish Agricultural College curriculum. I probably just missed it.

[edgy]

Ok, so far in this thread Labguy, you Have called Iron Glove a fool, an idiot, asked if he was dropped on his head, and just accused him of being thick skilled, are you for real? I think it's time you stopped working on your dog skills and START WORKING ON YOUR PEOPLE SKILLS , cause buddy, I don't give a rats ass how much you know about dogs, you suck with people.
you have also told him that the experts he hired got their credentials basically from the back of a cereal box, I think you should change your name from Labguy to DOG GOD, that's obviously how you see yourself

[Kasomor]

Thanks for the giggle on this thread.

Yes, I hunt my tollers on ducks and pheasants. Unfortunately, as Canadian Red Neck said there is only one breeder in BC who actually hunts their dogs. That breeder being me and I am not breeding a litter for a few years.

I wouldn't buy any dog I wanted for hunting from stock that doesn't hunt and/or does higher levels of Hunt Tests. And I wouldn't buy a dog from a breeder that doesn't hunt or do hunt tests because they have no knowledge of what to look for in a hunting pup and they have has no practical experience to help me with training. Nor would I buy from a breeder whose focus is the show ring. It is a feather in their cap to sell to a hunter so they can say their kennel produces hunting dogs.... no matter how successful or not those dogs turn out to be in the field.

It is said that you can put your hand into any well FIELD bred lab or golden litter, stir and any pup will do well hunting. NOT so with tollers. Tollers are not a field bred golden or a field bred lab. Tollers have not been bred for generations for the field. Breeders who do work their dogs also do other dog sports with them since we do not want a split in the breed like there is in goldens and labs. Unfortunately it is is easier to show a dog than to do field work. As stated already, most breeders in the province are breeding for show or pets.... they simply don't know what to look for in a hunting dog. :-( So you will likely have to go out of province or to the USA for a well bred pup from working dogs. It is no issue getting a toller from the USA into Canada.

Lab Guy has it right, tollers are not some magical special breed. Yes, they can be a pain in the ass if not trained. However, I can name dogs of other breeds that are a PITA also!! The lab that lives behind me is a horrible barker, I am yet to meet a golden that doesn't jump on everyone they meet.... Is it the breed?????

NO! It is the dog and usually the owners lack of training!! Some dogs, no matter the breed, are hard headed, soft, spooky, fearful, jumpy etc...

The right puppy, from the right litter, from the right breeder, from the right breed of dog is the right puppy for you. Its not as simple as ordering up a new truck!

If you use harsh training methods, well, you shouldn't have a dog. Train the dog you are training, the dog that is in front of you. Be it a toller, lab, golden, etc... You are NOT training a breed you are training a dog.

You can see pics of Canadain Red Necks dog here :-) https://www.facebook.com/kasomor?ref=hl Lacey is her name

[labguy]

Kasomor....glad we gave you a chuckle..:wink:......was wondering how long you could resist......good, solid factual information as usual.

Hope the original poster reads and then re-reads and then re-reads it again. Lots of useful and factual information for anyone looking for a hunting dog. Should be a sticky.

[835]

sooooo,,, Hunter Fisher,,,, you gonna get a Toller?

[Busterbrown]

Are they any good for hunting??? I was thinking of getting a couple....

[Foxton Gundogs]

Are they any good for hunting??? I was thinking of getting a couple....

Did you miss my first post or Kasomors? I think that question has been answered a few times.

[Busterbrown]

I managed to read all the posts... don't understand most of it but I read it. This thread has gone completely off the rails.. someone lock it up

[Foxton Gundogs]

I managed to read all the posts... don't understand most of it but I read it. This thread has gone completely off the rails.. someone lock it up

I believe my first post was pretty "Fisher Price" not hard to understand at all, if your question was genuine then it should have answered it.

[Iron Glove]

No retreating here bud. I simply tire of not being heard. It's like pounding my head against a wall. If you were a dog, I'd have to turn the collar up to double 6 to get a reasonable degree of cognition.(Just kidding).

Like I said in the past, dialoging with you reminds me of my ex wife....and not in a good way:-D.

I would actually like to have a face to face with you one day. For some reason your perception and recollection of past conversations between us is quite a bit different than mine. Maybe some dialogue would clear things up a bit.

I travel through Princeton occasionally and would meet with you whenever is convenient. Conversely, if your ever in the Okanagan near Vernon, let's have a coffee and see if we can find something to argue about in person. The optimist in me forces me to believe you couldn't possibly be as thick skulled in real life as you are on this site.:wink:

I'll give you a trained dog demonstration if your interested. Maybe we'll find some common ground..........

Brian

PS. I couldn't find the post graduate degree you spoke of listed on the Scottish Agricultural College curriculum. I probably just missed it.

Labby, I agree it's time we toned it down a bit and yes, maybe sometime in the future we can sit together, have a beer and chat. Sometimes I think that you and I say, and often believe in much the same but there is a disconnect somewhere.
Of course that's all your fault. ;)
Yes, the Doctor is a real Doctor with a real, respected Degree from a genuine, well respected Institute. No match book cover for her.

[Busterbrown]

I believe my first post was pretty "Fisher Price" not hard to understand at all, if your question was genuine then it should have answered it.

Thanks for making this simple for me to read...this dog training thing is so complicated, maybe I should just get a pitbull instead.. My intention was to get the thread back on track.. you can relax FG I think I understand the original posters question , he wanted to know if a Toller would be a good hunting dog, the thread then turned into name calling and who knows the most about dog training . Yes they can, talk to Linda and she will send you in the right direction

[Foxton Gundogs]

Thanks for making this simple for me to read...this dog training thing is so complicated, maybe I should just get a pitbull instead.. My intention was to get the thread back on track.. you can relax FG I think I understand the original posters question , he wanted to know if a Toller would be a good hunting dog, the thread then turned into name calling and who knows the most about dog training . Yes they can, talk to Linda and she will send you in the right direction

OK obviously I "bit" on your post, sorry if I don't know every dogman/woman by their "handle". But you must admit there are some awfully shall we say interesting questions asked on the site so my response was not out of line. At any rate I couldn't let Labguy garner all the chuckles :wink:

[Busterbrown]

Hook, line and sinker !! No harm done I hope !!!

[Foxton Gundogs]

Not on this end.