Kootenay Elk Management Survey

[Bugle M In]

Wildlife staff in the Kootenay Region are currently updating the regional Elk Management Plan for 2015-19. This plan will review and revise current elk management objectives, and identify actions to address key issues in the region.

To better understand the interests, experiences and opinions of First Nations, elk hunters, agricultural producers and the general public, we are conducting an on-line survey available here https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/YRY5LGL (wlmailhtml:{1128B7B8-75A2-4D48-8795-B8B33094DB2E}mid://00000006/!x-usc:https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/YRY5LGL). This survey must be completed by December 22nd, 2014. The results of this survey will be summarized in a publically available report, and used to develop the 2015-19 elk management plan.

We encourage you to briefly review or have available the following background information to facilitate survey completion:

2010-14 Kootenay Elk Management Plan - http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/emp/Kootenay%20elk%20management%20plan%202010-14%20(final).pdf (wlmailhtml:{1128B7B8-75A2-4D48-8795-B8B33094DB2E}mid://00000006/!x-usc:http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/emp/Kootenay%20elk%20management%20plan%202010-14%20(final).pdf)

Kootenay Elk Population Review - http://a100.gov.bc.ca/appsdata/acat/documents/r19918/Kootenayelkpopulationreview_final__1395349270477_5 349216529.pdf (wlmailhtml:{1128B7B8-75A2-4D48-8795-B8B33094DB2E}mid://00000006/!x-usc:http://a100.gov.bc.ca/appsdata/acat/documents/r19918/Kootenayelkpopulationreview_final__1395349270477_5 349216529.pdf)

The Government of BC will not collect, use, or disclose personal information using SurveyMonkey. Please be aware however that IP addresses are collected by SurveyMonkey itself, and these IP addresses and other information collected will be stored on SurveyMonkey's servers located outside of Canada. This survey is voluntary and a response is encouraged, not required. Please do not provide any third-party information (i.e. talk about others) in your responses to the survey. Although we encourage you to complete the survey as fully as possible, you may skip question(s) you do not wish to answer.

Allow approximately 15-20 minutes to fill out this questionnaire. This questionnaire can only be filled in once per person.

Please forward this e-mail to anyone with an interest in elk management in the Kootenay Region!

[Bugle M In]

let's see if these links work??
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/YRY5LGL

[hunter1947]

Yes this link worked and thank you for posting the link now wee need the other one posted up so we hunters can do our part..

[Bugle M In]

the other 2 links are just pdf files on management studies etc.
copy and paste the links in a new window if you wish to view for your reading pleasure.
I did the survey, but am not sure what direction the Ministry wishes to take or implement for the future.??
I just added in the survey a few points I thought would help.
I wrote that:
They needed to do more prescribed burns for winter and summer ranges.
That logging ( sorry forestry guys! ) was not the only solution to the above/ previous comment.
Prescribed burns may help minimize the addition of new roads and easier access if that was a concern, as logging does create roads and obviously easy access.
That if their concern is over population of elk, to bring back the 3 point or better GOS, not over increasing cow LEH permits as they
did in the 80's and into the mid 90's etc.
That Wolf management is needed, and the ministry should consider reducing numbers from inside their department, not just allocating more numbers for hunters to take.
And that in my opinion, a Grizzly Fall LEH should be introduced...reasons for that are 2 fold.
1. to reduce problem Grizzlies in Elk Season Hunts that either come into camp to take game, and to avoid future incidents of bears coming into gunshots as a form of a "dinner bell".
2. to help reduce the number of Elk calves taken in the Spring when they are born from Grizzly predation.
And no to private elk hunts like in the states ( you will see that offered if you take the survey....so take the survey if it is important to you )
I don't want to see BC turn into the USA, with private ranches etc, for only people with deep pockets to be able to hunt in the province.
Just my opinions...some may agree on some points, and others may totally disagree.
Cheers

[d6dan]

Already posted my 2bits worth on it..

[Whonnock Boy]

I did it last night. I found there was some ambiguous questions, and took me some time to interpret their meaning. Example.... the questions regarding overgrazing from cattle and mule deer. I too mentioned the grizzly population, and its affects on the elk population and the safety aspect regarding hunters. I might have mentioned a thing or two about privatization of OUR resource and how it pertains to private ranch land, in favor of the resident hunter of course. :D In all, it took some time longer than the 20 minutes it suggests. Maybe that's just me, but I wanted to be sure my ducks were in row.

Oh.... and I mentioned that there should be a late bow season. The impact would be minimal, and give more resident hunting opportunity. ;-)

[aggiehunter]

BugleM In, the best way to solve the grizzly bear dinner bell threat is to make the Bow only (BOS) longer and the plus side to that is there will be more Elk for everyone.

[Bugle M In]

BugleM In, the best way to solve the grizzly bear dinner bell threat is to make the Bow only (BOS) longer and the plus side to that is there will be more Elk for everyone.

Bears need to be afraid of guns, and not to be feeling there included in the hunt...or at least not with my hunting party.
If someone wants to hunt with a bow...go ahead, bows are still allowed all GOS if you want.
Some of us aren't as apt to pull back a bow, or inclined to hunt with one regardless.
Win, win, for all users IMO.
Bow hunters hunt with bows.
Gun hunters with guns.
Bear hear gun, Bear stay away from gun.
Bear sees hunter, bear doesn't wait around to see if hunter carries gun or bow!
Win, Win, for hunters and elk!!
But that is only one part of putting in input for elk on the survey.
All have the right to give their own opinion.
But if you like Elk hunting, take the survey.

[aggiehunter]

survey done....

[Elkaholic]

BugleM In, the best way to solve the grizzly bear dinner bell threat is to make the Bow only (BOS) longer and the plus side to that is there will be more Elk for everyone.


I also think a good fix for elk numbers would benifit from a Sept(ALL MONTH) bow season, then open up the gun hunt Oct 1. I know I will get blasted for it, but how many other jurisdictions do this exact same thing. We have been soo lucky for so long with our seasons. We still have a hunt in the rut that will harvest a wider age range of animals and no doubt would leave a lot more in the bush in Sept to do the breeding. Come Oct 1 there is more bulls still alive and the gun(only) hunters can fill their boots.

[OutWest]

I also think a good fix for elk numbers would benifit from a Sept(ALL MONTH) bow season, then open up the gun hunt Oct 1. I know I will get blasted for it, but how many other jurisdictions do this exact same thing. We have been soo lucky for so long with our seasons. We still have a hunt in the rut that will harvest a wider age range of animals and no doubt would leave a lot more in the bush in Sept to do the breeding. Come Oct 1 there is more bulls still alive and the gun(only) hunters can fill their boots.

Not trying to stir the pot but what would a month of bow only accomplish? Is there a problem that needs addressing currently? All the cows are being bred and a sufficient amount of mature bulls are making it through the season as it stands. You know the WK well - it's thick, it's steep and a large portion of it has limited access. Many areas could easily sustain an any bull or 3 point season. The major hubs (Castlegar, Nelson, Nakusp etc.) see significantly more hunting pressure but even in those areas you're not going to see a conservation concern with a 6 point season.

Hunters already complain about what a gongshow it is in those areas when the 10th finally rolls around, just wait until you cut the season in half.

[Whonnock Boy]

I don't understand. How exactly does making the bow season longer minimize grizzly/hunter conflict?

[Bugle M In]

I think first, we need to understand what are elk #'s are.
If they are declining, is it due to what??
Is it hunter harvest #'s being higher ( not from me the past few years, nor the outfitter where I hunt, we have both been struggling etc. )
Is it predator related....we all have seen wolves, everywhere, and grizzly sightings have skyrocketed where I hunt, and I have hunted there for over 30+ years.
Is it due to lack of winter range, summer range or both??
etc etc etc.
We need to figure out what the main cause is, prioritize them and deal withit accordingly.
I find it hard to believe that it is due to hunter over harvest, unless facts support it.
And, I for one, am not about to shoot myself in the foot, and give myself ( others ) less hunter opportunity.
Yet allow other groups to keep going, without rule ( I won't go further into that, but u know where I am going ).
I won't blast somebody for their opinion, after all, it is a forum of open discussion.
And I am not able to physically operate a bow any longer, so gun is my only choice, and would other user groups put away guns to go back to true traditional hunting??
Over grazing by domestic herds may also be a concern.
Just be sure to think thru the questions, some do leave a lot of room for interpretation.
It appears some questions are asking if we want to see more privatization of hunting, like in the states....so here we go.
Whatever your opinion, at least take the survey...please.
Cheers

[ellenbill]

BugleM In, the best way to solve the grizzly bear dinner bell threat is to make the Bow only (BOS) longer and the plus side to that is there will be more Elk for everyone.


How, do you figure??

[aggiehunter]

Well somebody said that a grizz uses a gun shot as a dinner bell...so I just figured that as a bow just goes twang it might lesson that very dangerous situation of rifle hunting for Elk in grizzly country.

[Bugle M In]

Well somebody said that a grizz uses a gun shot as a dinner bell...so I just figured that as a bow just goes twang it might lesson that very dangerous situation of rifle hunting for Elk in grizzly country.

I sort of understood where you were going, and yes a bow is quieter than a rifle, so yes, a bear showing up is less of a problem....understood.
But, it may not stop a bear in camp, dragging away your fresh hanging elk, that seems to be happening more and more.
Let's call it, the grizz population isn't on a decline, not from my experience, and they are getting ballsy!
And Grizz do fall into the predator category, and they like elk.
It may go against the " there are no Grizzlies movement" and the "Grizz hunting is only for trophy outcry" that is running rampant in this province,
and the government is to scared to go against these potential voter's votes, so they don't address the real fact that Grizz are increasing, and they will impact
elk #'s.
And from a hunter and family man, "It's just getting plain stupid out there", and someone is going to get hurt.
I am not asking for an annihilation of grizzly or wolf, just a balanced policy, to keep elk #'s in a level that supports all...human and wild.
And for all, not just the rich, or the special privy in the province.
The survey is a lot more than just predator related questionnaire.
There is questions on what appears to be the thought of privatization of hunting as a possibility.
Try it, take the survey, you will see what crossroads hunting could possibly take, not that it will, but you will get an idea what's on the table.
Thus the chance to put everyone's input into it, if one takes a few minutes.

[GoatGuy]

Bugle m in I like your comments as they relate to elk and elk management. Agree with a lot of it.

The comments on bow seasons and bears responding only to gun shots are pretty stupid. Calls and meat on the ground bring bears in with much greater frequency. I suppose if we have a bow only season where hunters aren't allowed to call and aren't allowed to shoot anything it would solve a lot of problems. Or we could just close the hunting season entirely. Engage brain, engage fingers.

[hunter1947]

From my experiences on Grizzlies coming in to confront hunters most cases are the game is hanging up in camp the bear comes in to take the animal that is hanging up usually during night hours as for calling
with an elk calling device or caring meat out on back packs.

I have also had problems with a few grizzlies coming in after you shot your animal its on the ground and you are cleaning the animal out getting it ready to pack out all experiences have been with grizzly bears over my years of hunting not black bears..

[Bugle M In]

Bugle m in I like your comments as they relate to elk and elk management. Agree with a lot of it.

The comments on bow seasons and bears responding only to gun shots are pretty stupid. Calls and meat on the ground bring bears in with much greater frequency. I suppose if we have a bow only season where hunters aren't allowed to call and aren't allowed to shoot anything it would solve a lot of problems. Or we could just close the hunting season entirely. Engage brain, engage fingers.

Or one could just open their eyes!
I'll still go regardless of consequence.
Just saying what is becoming more and more frequent.
Not like some, that only a few Grizzlies are left in the universe.
Thee used to be a much more liberal Grizz season, too liberal for sure!
But, there was less Grizz from shot game interaction as well wether it was at the kill or at the camp.
You can insult my brain or my fingers....but my eyes are better than most at our age!:-P
As said, there will be difference of opinion on this.
But no need to insult each other, if so, may I suggest getting laid 1st, than type!

[Bugle M In]

From my experiences on Grizzlies coming in to confront hunters most cases are the game is hanging up in camp the bear comes in to take the animal that is hanging up usually during night hours as for calling
with an elk calling device or caring meat out on back packs.

I have also had problems with a few grizzlies coming in after you shot your animal its on the ground and you are cleaning the animal out getting it ready to pack out all experiences have been with grizzly bears over my years of hunting not black bears..

Exactly the reason I never purchased a black bear tag when I am up there.
I leave those bears ( blacks ) for others who like to hunt them, and they have never touched my game meat either, only my " Weber"!, but that is easily rectified ( front seat of truck ).
But anytime a grizz showed up, it wasn't the cooking, but an elk hanging in someone's camp.
Who was it that just posted the Grizz taking down 2 whities, it was in that Montana study thread, not sure if that thread was lost in the website downtime?? but the pics were in the Daytime ( in BC )

[aggiehunter]

Goatguy, I completely agree that those comments regarding dinner bells and grizzlies is stupid....now about those BOS's.......

[j270wsm]

I have never had a bear come into the sound of gunshots. Bears are attracted by the bugle/cow calls we make while chasing elk. The calls attract them and the smell of blood brings them to your hanging meat. I thought this was common sense.

[Bugle M In]

I have never had a bear come into the sound of gunshots. Bears are attracted by the bugle/cow calls we make while chasing elk. The calls attract them and the smell of blood brings them to your hanging meat. I thought this was common sense.

That wouldn't be the case of the 2 hunters up in the Albert R some years ago, if I understand events correctly, ( although no one was there but them ), but I thought their intent was Goat, but came across a
bull elk in subalpine, and never finished even getting the elk completely on their backboards, before the tragic event.
Another friend of mine took a shot at a Caribou ( red fern? country), the grizzly that was way over across the bowl came running as soon as the 1st shot was fired. ( and several shots were fired )
No call used there, and there was several guys in the group, as well as video that confirms it. ( they never expected that Grizz to come in, but rather to take off )
They were able to retrieve antlers 4 days later.
Outfitter where I hunt, confirms seeing the same thing, sheep hunting, no calls again, but after shooting, bears have come in, rather than leave...or they show up on top of the ridge in short order.
Common sense would have told me in the past that they would high tail it out of there from gunshots.
I already know about calling, and Grizz and Cougars showing up.....3 Grizz and 1 Coug so far. ( so ya, when calling, don't take a snooze because it is mid noon, 30+C, and you figure nothing is moving )
We all know why they show up in camp if you have something hanging....just years ago it was a rare occurrence, or maybe it wasn't, maybe it's the power of the I-net, that it is more frequently discussed.??
They don't appear to be as shy as they once seemed to be, and don't mind hanging around, where they would, in the past, haul ass out of your way.
Or like those webcam pics that were posted, waiting for you to go out on your evening hunt, to confiscate your game.

[hunter1947]

I have never had a Grizzly bear come in from my rifle shots over the years I have hunted ,,I have heard that Grizzly bears do come in when they hear a rifle shot I bought a outdoor magazine book about 10 years ago and the book had a wight up in it about rifle shots bring in Grizzlies I myself I don't know if this is true or not like I said I have never had this happen to me and I have shot many elk deer in grizzly county and cleaned the elk deer out in the late evening after shooting the animal just before dark and on in to darkness..

[j270wsm]

Bugle M in.......

A few years ago a friend was charged by a big grizz while sheep hunting. He said they spotted it, watched it for a few min then out of nowhere it turned and came at a full run from 500yds. No shots were fired, bear got their scent and wasnt impressed. Like all animals we hunt, bears do not know/understand what a gunshot is. All animals are scared of loud noises that happen close to them, But I find it hard to believe bears have learned that gunshots can mean a free meal.

[Bugle M In]

Bugle M in.......

A few years ago a friend was charged by a big grizz while sheep hunting. He said they spotted it, watched it for a few min then out of nowhere it turned and came at a full run from 500yds. No shots were fired, bear got their scent and wasnt impressed. Like all animals we hunt, bears do not know/understand what a gunshot is. All animals are scared of loud noises that happen close to them, But I find it hard to believe bears have learned that gunshots can mean a free meal.

yes, I understand what people are saying here, but, this bear did come in right after the shots went off.
The guys were just a surprise, they felt their was enough of them, that the grizz wouldn't want any part of it.
But the grizz claimed the kill before they even had a chance to walk over.
Maybe the grizz didn't know, maybe he just saw a struggling Bou??
Anyways, my fault for adding that into a discussion on the elk survey and thoughts etc.
I know wolves get the claim as main cause around BC for possible declines in BC, but I have noticed not only wolves but Grizz getting bigger in population.

There was a study once on sheep, they couldn't understand why in one area sheep were disappearing, and they new it wasn't from hunters success.
Possibly poaching was a theory, but in the end, it was one cougar who had become for the most part, exclusive on killing bighorn sheep.
Who is to say , if Grizz increase may also have a role in elk decline.

Hopefully people who read the thread at least take the time to complete survey, Id rather see the survey thread stay on the 1st page of the forum....not fall down to the 8th page,
and people forget to take it, as the deadline is near.
It's all good:wink:

[boxhitch]

Sooo, what was the outcome of this ? Was a final published ?

[wiggy]

Every member should fill out this report. WE they GOT TO KILL WOLVES. Sure we all agree and know that we need more Griz tags on LEH; burns are a good thing. Govt doesn't get it.
The wolves are wiping out areas of calves not just a few.
For the 2 cents about Grizzes coming to rifle shots well that's been a fact for 30 years. Lots of those bears are not stupid. Smarter then a seeing eye dog. Don't kid yourself. First time a bear eats a gutpile and smells human it gets it. HUMAN FOOD. BOOM HUMAN BOOM FOOD. Now when they start hearing boom whiz or ouch they catch on quick. They learn from their elders and it only takes a couple seasons and the cubs catch on. BOOM moms running that's now instilled for life. Too bad our young biologists don't learn from their elders. OH WOLVES are part of the eco system Damn rights when man only had stick bows and millions of animals. NOW their complete idiots in my book. Never met one backpacking in hunting season in 40 years. Guides in the Yukon manage their sheep herds and do a much better job then some book worm playing God. Worst part is some of my tax $ is paying the dipshits wage. It isn't rocket science. I also really feel that taking away some areas for LEH 6 point bulls is/was a mistake. Lots of GOS areas but pretty sweet to get a tag where you get a crack at a wild monster and you know their in the area because theirs lots of em and not many guys getting a tag to hunt them. The best elk hunting in BC and pretty well NA for a rank bull in no mans land is in the Kechika Turnagain area and to hunt where you really want to be is 10k. Lets hope that's not the future. OUR GOVTs WILDLIFE management sucks. We should have the best hunting for pretty well every species except pronghorns because we have the environment to support it but we don't because of our wildlife management