where have all the whitetails gone?

[sparky300winmag]

not sure whats going on in the Flats area but some of the previous years hot spots deer numbers are down substantially imo. went out this morning and only saw 6 deer. Could this be a result of the does being open in late sept and a 2 doe limit? I have seen a couple bucks the last 2 times I went out , but just not seeing the deer moving around. Any ideas? could the rut be over?

[sparky300winmag]

sorry late october

[M.Dean]

Same around here, seemed like they were making it for a few years, then some "suit" created a White Tail Doe season, and a lot of guys can't tell the difference between a yearling and a mature Doe, so there go's next years White's!

[Fred1]

Go out at night with a big light and have a look - my guess by this time the whites are mostly nocturnal. Its like that there in the Okanagan. Everyone says there are no deer in the fields OMG we have killed them all!!! Then spring comes and there are fawns all over the place. Don't worry too much if a few yearlings get shot - the things breed like rats!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Snow finally hit the ground around here and guess who shows up on the tcams? Does and fawns. Previous to that it was almost entirely bucks and lots of different ones. Mostly cruising through but did get a few repeaters.....of course not the big boys.

SSS

[happyhunter]

Same around here, seemed like they were making it for a few years, then some "suit" created a White Tail Doe season, and a lot of guys can't tell the difference between a yearling and a mature Doe, so there go's next years White's!

A lot of guys on here would crap on you for opposing a doe season, arguing that you want to take away their hunter "opportunity"

[HarryToolips]

Go out at night with a big light and have a look - my guess by this time the whites are mostly nocturnal. Its like that there in the Okanagan. Everyone says there are no deer in the fields OMG we have killed them all!!! Then spring comes and there are fawns all over the place. Don't worry too much if a few yearlings get shot - the things breed like rats!

I mostly agree with this, I have seen the same thing while hiking, t cam etc: a decent amount of them, in many areas outnumbering mules..not to mention they are usually sketchy critters and it's normally hard to bag even a doe..
However I have one area in particular in the west koots where for a couple years I bagged bucks, and there were whites all over the place - lots of fun..then they opened the limit to two wt doe, and now you don't see one, even in spots off the road where I used to see them..yes there's some sign, but little compared to other years.. Baggin a doe with the yearling often happens I would bet. I think it's that season in conjunction with the 6 pt elk season: globs of hunters come to try for an elk, don't get one and don't want to come home empty handed so they bag a wtdoe for the freezer..don't believe me take drive to Edgewood and ask the locals, they're pissed...I know I know we need to slow down the wt expansion, but aren't they also native to bc? Better to have white tails than no deer at all, and I highly doubt in these areas that the Muleys will make a recovery anytime soon..my too cents..

[OutWest]

The whitetail doe season is heavily underutilized and not at all the reason you're not seeing deer.

No shortage of whitetails around here, we're tripping over them as usual. Trail cams don't lie either.

[Stillhunting]

Tons of white-tail in my neck of the woods too, but the guys we see cruising the roads are saying they're all gone. I've only seen a few bucks in the last decade from the road but I've seen lots in the bush. When I was rattling yesterday I had a spike muley just about step on me, but the white-tails that came in where super sneaky and on high alert, even the one that's hanging at the butcher now:-D.

[Rhyno]

I have been seeing a fair number of deer, 10-20 in a morning or evening. All the does I saw yesterday had a fawn or two. I have only been here for a few years so I don't have much to go on.

[Everett]

Only saw 13 today but 3 were bucks but have been seeing upwards of 40 per day

[Fred1]

Tons of white-tail in my neck of the woods too, but the guys we see cruising the roads are saying they're all gone. I've only seen a few bucks in the last decade from the road but I've seen lots in the bush. When I was rattling yesterday I had a spike muley just about step on me, but the white-tails that came in where super sneaky and on high alert, even the one that's hanging at the butcher now:-D.

Exactly! Roads hunters prolly see about 1/20 th of whats out there and that pretty generous.... I see almost nothing while driving compared to whats 100m off the road in the bush. Same with cut blocks - yup glass away and have a good look at the regen trees or get out and walk 100m outside the block and see the deer - THEY ARE OUT THERE!

[g_worsnop]

Why isn't there a chart on harvesting whitetails like mountain goats?

[M.Dean]

I said from what I see around here, there's not enough White Tail Deer to warrant a Doe season, here, where I live, not in other area's, reason being I have no idea how many WT's are in your area's, I don't live close to you, nor do I drive every inch of your hunting spots to make a guess on how many WT's are there. But, around here, yes, there are some WT's around still, but not even close to what we've seen in previous years. Out of all the guys that hunt up here, I've only heard of one WT buck being taken, and it was a spike, haven't talked to anyone yet that got a WT Doe.

[Gamebuster]

I said from what I see around here, there's not enough White Tail Deer to warrant a Doe season, here, where I live, not in other area's, reason being I have no idea how many WT's are in your area's, I don't live close to you, nor do I drive every inch of your hunting spots to make a guess on how many WT's are there. But, around here, yes, there are some WT's around still, but not even close to what we've seen in previous years. Out of all the guys that hunt up here, I've only heard of one WT buck being taken, and it was a spike, haven't talked to anyone yet that got a WT Doe.

And where do you live around kamloops?

[j270wsm]

The two times we went south for deer we seen around 50 deer by 1pm. I've only seen 5-10 white tails this year around elkford though. Deer numbers are way down

[Liveforthehunt]

I will be honest I haven't seen as many in my regular spots that usually hold a high population of whiteys dud happen to shoot a buck so did the old man but I truly think the doe season has impacted the wt population in some areas to a certain extent .. not saying they are by any means going extinct lol just not as many around as a few years ago before the doe season

[one-shot-wonder]

Lots of does, fawns and bucks this weekend if hunters get off the road and sit.... My dad burnt 2 months of diesel to see next to nothing, he joined my in my blind this weekend and in 4 hours of sitting saw 3 different bucks and plenty of does. One of the bucks is hanging in the garage.

Time for BC'ers to educate themselves on whitetails, and time to start learning how to kill them too......

[aggiehunter]

my only real reference to deer numbers is that I hunt the late bow season for whities in the EK....since the inception of the way too long gos on wt does the numbers have dropped drastically...my estimate is that we are at 40 percent of what we had before....I'm hunting winter range so am seeing deer that are there for the winter...I guess the only thing we can dream about is when will someone in power wake up...

[Fisher-Dude]

I hunt the EK in October and have never seen so many WT bucks, does and fawns as I do now. Considering that I have hunted there ever since 1977, that's a lot of years of experience.

Killed 2 in the EK while I was there this October, and rounded out the trifecta yesterday on a nice young WT buck here in region 8 (from the road, no less).

We can kill 25% of the does and 50% of the bucks every single year and not affect WT populations. Here in region 8 we kill ~ 4 - 5% each year. It's doubtful with the crazy high numbers in the EK we kill even that many.

Hunting has zero effect on WT populations. Maybe the OP should volunteer to do some habitat work if he wants to see more than the 20 - 30 deer a day I see in the EK.

[Sofa King]

my only real reference to deer numbers is that I hunt the late bow season for whities in the EK....since the inception of the way too long gos on wt does the numbers have dropped drastically...my estimate is that we are at 40 percent of what we had before....I'm hunting winter range so am seeing deer that are there for the winter...I guess the only thing we can dream about is when will someone in power wake up...

the problem is that everyone is complaining that the whiteys are taking over and becoming detrimental to the muleys.
I'm guessing the powers that be read/hear all that whining and increase the deer limits.
I just wonder if they have the knowledge of that actual #'s.

[Fisher-Dude]

the problem is that everyone is complaining that the whiteys are taking over and becoming detrimental to the muleys.
I'm guessing the powers that be read/hear all that whining and increase the deer limits.
I just wonder if they have the knowledge of that actual #'s.

Deer are managed on sex ratios, not on numbers.

[Sofa King]

Deer are managed on sex ratios, not on numbers.

ratios are still numbers.

[Fisher-Dude]

And the bios have those numbers, Duallie. And we both know you were talking about population numbers.

Doe seasons give better sex ratios and better fawn to doe ratios than buck only seasons.

[Moose Guide]

And the bios have those numbers, Duallie. And we both know you were talking about population numbers.

Doe seasons give better sex ratios and better fawn to doe ratios than buck only seasons.

Well FD, at this time of year I am used to seeing 15-30 does and fawns from my porch, we have about 5 this year! 9 does between my place and the neighbour's with only 1 fawn between them! I have hunted very hard this year for elk and have only seen 8 wt bucks,(most years I would see more than that a week) I am quite new to this area having lived here only 47 years but I have never seen the population this low! We were able to sustain a 2 buck season for over 20 years without over population or the herd crashing and yet in the 3 years since this new 2 doe season it appears that our herd has crashed! Coincidence??? Go ahead, look out your window and tell me how much better your view of the Lardeau Valley is.

[Riverbc]

I'm in Region 8, and have been baiting deer on my friend's property,since late July, and have two cams set up as well. Lot's on camera...at night....up to Nov 11, then nothing, until November 23, and that was one doe....and nothing since. About a foot of snow here now, and no tracks near the bait. I found a lone fresh buck track elsewhere on the property. (followed by a couple of coyotes) I'm new to Whitetail hunting...and am surprised to see them disappear like that.

[hunter1947]

The wolves cats have cleaned the deer out..

[Everett]

Saw crazy amounts of Wolf tracks the last week all down on the winter range but still saw lots of WT and MD one day I saw 50 WT and 75 mule deer. Saw two bucks that would be 150+ wife dropped a 4x4 that will go 125. So even though there seems to record amounts of Wolves around there still is loads of deer.

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm new to Whitetail hunting...and am surprised to see them disappear like that.

Welcome to the rut. Habits change drastically.

[budismyhorse]

From what I've seen hunting the same patches before the doe season was instated in the EK and recently.... The does have sure wised up. They are being hunted now and are tuned in to the roads. Meaning they frequent the roads less often. I still have all the luck I've enjoyed off the road but even the does back there are cagey. Before doe season came in they were dumb as rocks.

as well..... We are seeing wolf tracks all over now.... 10 years ago it would be unheard of to see wolf tracks in some of the spots I hunt.

Wts are out there in decent numbers....but I wouldn't say hunters kill any significant amount... I'd say preds and vehicles kill far more deer than anything else.

[hunter1947]

What i have experienced over the past 4 years is there are lots of WT does being shot as foe a big preditor problum as for many WT bucks being shot at least in the region area I hunt combine all and there are less WT deer ,elk ,mule deer..

[aggiehunter]

there is a difference between having a doe season and carpet bombing.....you guys will figure it....

[Coachman]

I'd be curious to know how many people go predator hunting after deer season?

[one-shot-wonder]

I dont think predators are targetted much by hunters, they rather watch hockey and football on Saturday and Sunday. Adding to the problem is in the southern interior the houndsman has become a thing of the past... Cougar pop's have exploded!

[Ourea]

I don't think WT are targeted as much as we think in a lot of areas compared to others and that the suspected kill ratios of does are as high as most suspect..
Cold weather makes for very few late season WT buck hunters wandering from a warm vehicle, let alone sticking it out in a blind at - 20 for days on end ala sitkaspruce. Guys go to the end of the earth for a giant MD but will only road hunt for WT.

I have read and digested numerous comments from members offering respected observations on a purported decline in WT in their area. Not challenging their observations.
I suggest this perspective........

The hunting dynamic has changed with the introduction of the WT doe season.
Their habits have changed and rapidly as a result.

Bottom line, they are a highly adaptive species and not only survive, but thrive in war zones.
I hunt in one of them. They are there if you look.

In states such as Michigan they cant kill the *******s fast enough...they struggle to keep the populations flat despite an ample bag limit and a high overall hunting demographic compared to BC.

If WT are not showing up in agriculture areas in the interior like they use to that is not necessarily a true indicator of the population numbers. There is a probability that they hit the fields nocturnally....or avoid the area in general. If a rancher hung some cams in the thick bush around his property and got low numbers....maybe a different story.

A thought.....why were so many does seen in agriculture areas during the buck only season...literally hundreds in the fields yet seldom a buck. ( Christian Valley )
After a doe season or two ......very few does seen in the same fields....hmmmmm

I respect everyone's input on this hot button topic but I have seen a rapid adjustment in WT behavior since the doe season. I have had to work a lot harder and push deeper into ridiculously thick timber to find them.
I was quick to realize they have adjusted.....I needed to do so....as a hunter as well.

There are few deer tracks ever crossing a road where I hunt....yet I find pathways 60 meters paralleling the FSR's that are pounded .
They are there...just tougher to hunt.

Again, not challenging other's observations ..... I initially thought the same.
Now that I have dug much, much deeper I am finding some dandy WT.
The days of blowing out several does on a hike into one of my sites are over.

I never see a WT on the drive in or out.....the hike in or out....if I didn't know what I know from numerous cams and days in the field I would think the area was a waste of time..........

[aggiehunter]

Ourea, you and I have had this conversation. I`m hunting already somewhat relaxed wt`s on winter range and the pop`s are down....if you have cam`s out with bait you are going to attract the deer that are in the area regardless..however that`s them my friend. The wt`s I observe throughout the year will travel almost a mile to hit a bait site and it's the same deer every night. Even people that disagree that mulies are in trouble are hunting the pockets of deer so think theres lots. My humble opinions on wt`pops are not alone...and lots of my hunting buddies are long time ardent wt bow hunters who know how to take deer at under 15 yards...plus they have all the new gadgets too. I think a campfire and rum are in order......

[Fisher-Dude]

Long time ardent hunters have to learn to adapt the same as their prey does. WT are one of the most adaptable ungulates...thinking you'll kill one at 15 yards on the same hill you did 25 years ago is a doomed strategy. I don't even waste time in my old WT haunts. That's why I kill WTs and see many.

[Ourea]

Ourea, you and I have had this conversation. I`m hunting already somewhat relaxed wt`s on winter range and the pop`s are down....if you have cam`s out with bait you are going to attract the deer that are in the area regardless..however that`s them my friend. The wt`s I observe throughout the year will travel almost a mile to hit a bait site and it's the same deer every night. Even people that disagree that mulies are in trouble are hunting the pockets of deer so think theres lots. My humble opinions on wt`pops are not alone...and lots of my hunting buddies are long time ardent wt bow hunters who know how to take deer at under 15 yards...plus they have all the new gadgets too. I think a campfire and rum are in order......

I am not going to disagree with anyone's observations.
And it would be sheer ignorance to think that all areas are affected and impacted the same when it comes to predation, winter mortality and hunter harvest. I am sure WT numbers could be down in some areas as reported, certainly not in others.

A friend made a good point....
Once some does started getting hammered out of clear cuts...well...they don't wander out into cut blocks much any more......does don't wander in the blocks feeding anymore.... rutted up bucks don't hit the clear cuts because the does are now avoiding them. Result, a dramatic decline in deer encounters. Opinions quickly form.


With areas in the states having a 5 WT deer bag limit, it still doesn't have much impact on numbers.
WT are highly adaptive as FD said. I have zero concerns on their long term future in BC.

[Sitkaspruce]

Interesting discussion. In the Peace we have an any buck and a doe season for WT's, I have not been here to long to say if there is any change, yet the CO's and Bio's I hunt with say the numbers are down from the boom days, but not for the hunting. The weather and preds play a much bigger part in what happens to populations up here than hunting.

I will again get out next year and see if I notice anything different.

This year, I have seen way more deer in the fields than I did last year, including lots of bucks. But only been up here two full winters.

Cheers

SS

[bckoothunter]

Some very good points so far. My observations are similar to others who have posted - doe seasons are an important part of proper buck to doe ratios and population management, however they need to be implemented and managed correctly, which in the case of the EK's, I believe the doe harvest has been too great. I completely agree that the doe season has wised up the WT's, making it seem (to road hunters) that populations are at all time lows, while in reality they are much smarter now and have found new travel corridors to stay away from roads etc.

That being said, I do believe the WT deer population is down considerably in the EK's. My opinion is based on the fact that I hunt WT's hard every year and I am fortunate enough to spend better than 20 days devoted to WT's alone. I hunt many areas around the EK's, allowing me to be exposed to the deer population as a whole and not in one general area. This year I saw many good WT bucks, many more than the last couple years, however overall I saw fewer deer. In the hike in areas that I frequent, this year I saw the fewest WT's of any year and because this was consistent over a vast number of areas, I believe numbers are down. I believe the increase in buck numbers I saw this year was a result of the cancellation of the 2 WT buck season and the buck ratio beginning to rebound, anyone else's thoughts on buck numbers this year vs previous?

As far as the predator situation, there is no doubt that they are boasting high numbers and this is affecting deer/elk/moose/sheep populations throughout BC. Some areas that were plentiful with game only a few years ago are now empty, with the animal numbers either being reduced to very low or pushed out into another area.

[aggiehunter]

FD, I never really said I didn't kill a wt every year out of the same tree stand sites...just numbers are down that's all.

[Fisher-Dude]

I've hunted the EK since 1977. We never really saw many WT back then...maybe a handful in a 2 week hunt.

Numbers built in the 1990s until the 97/98 winter die offs.

In the mid-2000s, numbers began to skyrocket with a series a mild winters.

Now in 2014 we see 25 instead of the 40 we saw in 2007 in a morning's hunt, and people cry that numbers are down.

I really hope that people don't think seeing 40 skinny does in a few hours of road pounding is the sign of a healthy population.

[GoatGuy]

Just talked to buddy out of the flats they had a few quiet days but saw 16 bucks the last two days of the season.

[GoatGuy]

A friend made a good point....
Once some does started getting hammered out of clear cuts...well...they don't wander out into cut blocks much any more......does don't wander in the blocks feeding anymore.... rutted up bucks don't hit the clear cuts because the does are now avoiding them. Result, a dramatic decline in deer encounters. Opinions quickly form.

.
I think that is where we are at in many places. As a result sex ratios have come up and were going to see some big bucks hit the dirt in the next couple years.

[blacklab]

I originally supported the antlerless season, now it's got to where it appears we're trying to kill them all off.
If the two antlerless season works so good for Whitetails, maybe it's time for the same regs for Mule deer.
Can somebody explain, why not?

[happyhunter]

I originally supported the antlerless season, now it's got to where it appears we're trying to kill them all off.
If the two antlerless season works so good for Whitetails, maybe it's time for the same regs for Mule deer.
Can somebody explain, why not?

Whitetail are extremely prolific, and mule deer aren't. That's why not.

[Husky7mm]

Some very good points so far. My observations are similar to others who have posted - doe seasons are an important part of proper buck to doe ratios and population management, however they need to be implemented and managed correctly, which in the case of the EK's, I believe the doe harvest has been too great. I completely agree that the doe season has wised up the WT's, making it seem (to road hunters) that populations are at all time lows, while in reality they are much smarter now and have found new travel corridors to stay away from roads etc.


That being said, I do believe the WT deer population is down considerably in the EK's. My opinion is based on the fact that I hunt WT's hard every year and I am fortunate enough to spend better than 20 days devoted to WT's alone. I hunt many areas around the EK's, allowing me to be exposed to the deer population as a whole and not in one general area. This year I saw many good WT bucks, many more than the last couple years, however overall I saw fewer deer. In the hike in areas that I frequent, this year I saw the fewest WT's of any year and because this was consistent over a vast number of areas, I believe numbers are down. I believe the increase in buck numbers I saw this year was a result of the cancellation of the 2 WT buck season and the buck ratio beginning to rebound, anyone else's thoughts on buck numbers this year vs previous?

As far as the predator situation, there is no doubt that they are boasting high numbers and this is affecting deer/elk/moose/sheep populations throughout BC. Some areas that were plentiful with game only a few years ago are now empty, with the animal numbers either being reduced to very low or pushed out into another area.

I am am picking up what your laying down.


I think the increase in bigger bucks is a by product of the doe season. The does wising up has provided increase escapement for bucks as they are not as regular to chase does near the roads. That said I do believe that the two doe limit has decreased the population considerably, and it was evident already a year or two after being implemented.
Putting cams in the core areas with attractants for months at a time tells you exactly what is in that area , AND what is not. If everyone stepped up their game and hunted that way in a few years we will be questioning the population yet again.
We are lucky to have a species like whitetail to hunt , they seem to almost rise above whatever is thrown at them. That said I believe they should be managed so that they will always have a decent presence as the demand for game is high. A two doe limit is too much.

[Fisher-Dude]

A two doe limit is too much.


Opinion or based on some scientific stat?

Several US states require that you shoot 5 does before you get a buck tag. That's with a comparatively tiny land base and hundreds of thousands of hunters. And yet the cry over our limited harvest of this prolific species continues.

[Husky7mm]

I think that is where we are at in many places. As a result sex ratios have come up and were going to see some big bucks hit the dirt in the next couple years.

Looks like it's already starting to happen.

[Husky7mm]

Opinion or based on some scientific stat?

Several US states require that you shoot 5 does before you get a buck tag. That's with a comparatively tiny land base and hundreds of thousands of hunters. And yet the cry over our limited harvest of this prolific species continues.

We are not even close to the same as those states so your example holds no weight. We have real winters , cougars , wolves , and lots of bears.

[blacklab]

I think that is where we are at in many places. As a result sex ratios have come up and were going to see some big bucks hit the dirt in the next couple years.

I think this is what it's really about! Easy Big bucks, at any cost.

I will agree, the fewer does mean buck will have to travel more, making them easier targets.

Like FD I have hunted the same area of the West Kootenays for almost 30 years. I'm still seeing deer and killing

good bucks. What worries me is I'm not seeing nearly as many small bucks.

[OutWest]

We are not even close to the same as those states so your example holds no weight. We have real winters , cougars , wolves , and lots of bears.

Many of the states FD is talking about have much more severe winters than we get here in BC with plenty of predators.

[Husky7mm]

Many of the states FD is talking about have much more severe winters than we get here in BC with plenty of predators.

The same states have 5 doe limits ???

[Fisher-Dude]

Wyoming:

3 bucks + 7 does.

10 deer limit can be exceeded if you get private land tags in addition to public land tags.

[Husky7mm]

Opinion or based on some scientific stat?

The science being that it was a population reduction hunt and at some point we have to say it has been reduced enough.

I think there is a direct relationship to one person killing three deer and a few others getting tag soup.

[Fisher-Dude]

The science being that it was a population reduction hunt and at some point we have to say it has been reduced enough.


Wyoming can't reduce the population with a 10 deer limit. They have wicked winters, 102,000 hunters (same as us) on a land base of 253,348 km2 compared to BC's 944,735 km2. They have huge wolf and cat problems.

So, almost 4 times the hunter density, predators through the roof, big winters, and a 10 deer limit. You cry about a 2 deer limit in the Kootenays. Reality bites.

[OutWest]

The science being that it was a population reduction hunt and at some point we have to say it has been reduced enough.

I think there is a direct relationship to one person killing three deer and a few others getting tag soup.

Sure there is. Some people refuse to adapt and don't fill a tag while the ones that do have meat in the freezer.

[aggiehunter]

what we really need here is more private ranch lands to obscure the reality of deer numbers...nutshell....

[Fisher-Dude]

Wyoming's bag limits are public land hunts. Private land hunts are handled on a whole separate set of regs with their own bag limits.

10 deer a year. 1/4 the land. Same number of hunters. 7 does. You're whimpering at 2.

[Islandeer]

LOL!!!!

Hunting will never decimate Whitetail numbers!! It's not going to happen, they are too dominant and to prolific and too adaptable!!


Unlike alot of hunters,uhh the part about adaptable ...

[300H&H]

not sure whats going on in the Flats area but some of the previous years hot spots deer numbers are down substantially imo. went out this morning and only saw 6 deer. Could this be a result of the does being open in late sept and a 2 doe limit? I have seen a couple bucks the last 2 times I went out , but just not seeing the deer moving around. Any ideas? could the rut be over?

I was pulled over by the CO and asked him this very question.
His reply made total sense.
WT does in past years were under LEH or bow season only so they had little to be scared of.
With the opening of a WT doe season here in reg 8, he told me the "dumb" ones have been shot and now the remaining does run (with that years fawns) when they hear a truck coming.
He also went on to say that the hunters who still hunt or hunt from a blind away from the road are seeing MORE deer.
We have educated these deer to stay way from road hunters. That works for me !

[blacklab]

Have any of you people that are pushing to kill all the vermin, rat deer (quoting people on this forum), considered what it will do to future mule deer populations.
I eat deer meat, my wife and I shoot the first decent mule deer we see, decent being pounds not points. Now that you've made the antlerless whitetails harder to hunt, I think mule deer will pay the price.
I won't use a tag on an antlerless whitetail, when I get twice the meat from a 2 point mule deer.

[one-shot-wonder]

Blacklab,

That is unfortunate, I care passionately about mule deer therefore I have made a personal decision a few years back to focus on whitetails as my main source of meat rather than mules. What BC hunters are not getting is that you don't hunt WT's like you do MD. I have totally changed my tactics. When you make a decision to target WTs, the more resilient of the two species, you will hopefully change game plans, learn and then become more effective at harvesting WT's. Do I prefer hunting WTs, not at all. I still get out chasing mules and have alot of fun hunting both, but mules are preferred. I would say I harvest 5:1 WT to MD......food for thought.

[blacklab]

I care passionately about Whitetail. I hunt both species and treat them with equal respect. Don't insinuate I don't know how to hunt Whitetail I've got the antlers to prove otherwise.

If more people actually hunted whitetail and learned how to hunt them they may take some good bucks and would appreciate them more. I've notice people that bad mouth whitetail don't often have a lot of good heads to show off.



When talking about some states with liberal whitetail bag limits I think some people should look at the states that border us and not compare us to Florida. Washington, Idaho, and Montana have 1 deer bag limits with some special hunt tags. I don't think we have to go that far, but I do believe we need to give the Whitetail a lot more respect.

[oclarkii]

If more people actually hunted whitetail and learned how to hunt them they may take some good bucks and would appreciate them more. I've notice people that bad mouth whitetail don't often have a lot of good heads to show off.






When talking about some states with liberal whitetail bag limits I think some people should look at the states that border us and not compare us to Florida. Washington, Idaho, and Montana have 1 deer bag limits with some special hunt tags. I don't think we have to go that far, but I do believe we need to give the Whitetail a lot more respect.


VERY good point.

[one-shot-wonder]

I care passionately about Whitetail. I hunt both species and treat them with equal respect. Don't insinuate I don't know how to hunt Whitetail I've got the antlers to prove otherwise.

If more people actually hunted whitetail and learned how to hunt them they may take some good bucks and would appreciate them more. I've notice people that bad mouth whitetail don't often have a lot of good heads to show off.


You can have your antlers most hunters in BC care about the meat more than bone!

As for caring about Whitetails people do, they are a very crafty and pose a great challenge, but most of all they are great eating! Better than MD for that matter. BC hunters just need to adapt as the WTs have recently and they are winning the battle. Once hunters get dialed into WTs its just a matter of how much time they have to afford to filling their freezer.

[Husky7mm]

Wyoming can't reduce the population with a 10 deer limit. They have wicked winters, 102,000 hunters (same as us) on a land base of 253,348 km2 compared to BC's 944,735 km2. They have huge wolf and cat problems.

So, almost 4 times the hunter density, predators through the roof, big winters, and a 10 deer limit. You cry about a 2 deer limit in the Kootenays. Reality bites.

That shocks me , I will have to verify.

[sawmill]

Same around here, seemed like they were making it for a few years, then some "suit" created a White Tail Doe season, and a lot of guys can't tell the difference between a yearling and a mature Doe, so there go's next years White's!

Meh,I hunt 10 minutes from my house,got a buck and a doe like always,saw scores of both.The doe season is a great thing and does not even scratch the overall population.But keep bitching Mr. Dean until the season gets cancelled.
Then I will be coming to raid your freezer.Christ I am sick of guys like you.Quit watching Bambi.

[sawmill]

You can have your antlers most hunters in BC care about the meat more than bone!

As for caring about Whitetails people do, they are a very crafty and pose a great challenge, but most of all they are great eating! Better than MD for that matter. BC hunters just need to adapt as the WTs have recently and they are winning the battle. Once hunters get dialed into WTs its just a matter of how much time they have to afford to filling their freezer.

^^^^That right there.Well said.I get my 2 every year,buck and doe.My wife also has a license but we only need 2 deer so she didn`t hunt again.We could easily have filled 4 tags.In one day sometimes.

[sawmill]

Have any of you people that are pushing to kill all the vermin, rat deer (quoting people on this forum), considered what it will do to future mule deer populations.
I eat deer meat, my wife and I shoot the first decent mule deer we see, decent being pounds not points. Now that you've made the antlerless whitetails harder to hunt, I think mule deer will pay the price.
I won't use a tag on an antlerless whitetail, when I get twice the meat from a 2 point mule deer.

I quit buying Mulie tags 5 years ago.I don`t care about horns though God knows I have a BUNCH of good big racks.Mules and white tail.I shoot for the freezer nowdays.A doe and a 2 point Whitey suits me just fine.

[f350ps]

Wyoming can't reduce the population with a 10 deer limit. They have wicked winters, 102,000 hunters (same as us) on a land base of 253,348 km2 compared to BC's 944,735 km2. They have huge wolf and cat problems.

So, almost 4 times the hunter density, predators through the roof, big winters, and a 10 deer limit. You cry about a 2 deer limit in the Kootenays. Reality bites.
I just pulled this out of the Wyoming regs. Only other thing I could find is very restrictive seasons and quotas!
BAG LIMITS AND NUMBERS OF LICENSES. No person shall apply for or receive more than one (1) license for each big game species during any one (1) calendar year, except as otherwise provided in Commission regulations. The maximum bag limit for big game animals and trophy game animals for any person with the proper licenses and permits shall not exceed the following number of animals: one (1) elk per license; one (1) moose per license; one (1) bighorn sheep per license; one (1) mountain goat per license; one (1) antelope per license; one (1) deer per license; one (1) black bear per license; one (1)

[f350ps]

That being said, you have to be a lawyer to read Wyomings regs, I'll never bitch about ours again! K

[Fisher-Dude]

That being said, you have to be a lawyer to read Wyomings regs, I'll never bitch about ours again! K

You read it wrong. That's okay, the Wyoming regs are really difficult to understand.

[Fisher-Dude]

If more people actually hunted whitetail and learned how to hunt them they may take some good bucks and would appreciate them more. I've notice people that bad mouth whitetail don't often have a lot of good heads to show off.



I shoot does. And spikes. And Forks. And bigger bucks.

I got this buck mounted to relive the exciting hunt whenever I look at him above my reloading bench. Not sure how much bigger I have to shoot to "show off" for you.



http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/Fisher-Dude/HPIM1291.jpg

[hunter1947]

I shoot does. And spikes. And Forks. And bigger bucks.

I got this buck mounted to relive the exciting hunt whenever I look at him above my reloading bench. Not sure how much bigger I have to shoot to "show off" for you.





http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/Fisher-Dude/HPIM1291.jpg


Thats a dandy EK WT buck you have on your wall Pat ,,congrats to you don't get them any better then of that one..

[f350ps]

You read it wrong. That's okay, the Wyoming regs are really difficult to understand.
I really don't think I did, the Wyoming 2013 Whitetail survey shows 77,663 tags sold with 13,850 deer killed. You got some other numbers? It appears to me that they have a healthy population that they manage very cautiously. K

[Ricky Bobby]

I just pulled this out of the Wyoming regs. Only other thing I could find is very restrictive seasons and quotas!
BAG LIMITS AND NUMBERS OF LICENSES. No person shall apply for or receive more than one (1) license for each big game species during any one (1) calendar year, except as otherwise provided in Commission regulations. The maximum bag limit for big game animals and trophy game animals for any person with the proper licenses and permits shall not exceed the following number of animals: one (1) elk per license; one (1) moose per license; one (1) bighorn sheep per license; one (1) mountain goat per license; one (1) antelope per license; one (1) deer per license; one (1) black bear per license; one (1)

Read section 4a

i dont know know the limit or rules but it seems you can get more than 1??? Wow what a shitty regulations to understand And I though I had trouble reading bc regs!!!

[wsm]

A lot of guys on here would crap on you for opposing a doe season, arguing that you want to take away their hunter "opportunity"
agreed , that is because most don't really care about populations, only what they get out of it . for example if the govt gave out leh for an area and there were only 5 left , most would shoot it anyway without hesitation . in the case of wt im a lil uninformed however I have made it my point to ask questions and call the right people about other species and the govt is bs'ing us in some cases about our populations

[f350ps]

Read section 4a

i dont know know the limit or rules but it seems you can get more than 1??? Wow what a shitty regulations to understand And I though I had trouble reading bc regs!!!
Check out the surveys on here gf.state.wy.us/ The numbers I posted were from the DNR site, totals are all there. K

[f350ps]

Something I found strange with the Wyoming numbers, of the 13,850 whiteys killed 1341 of them were fawns! K

[358mag]

I shoot does. And spikes. And Forks. And bigger bucks.

I got this buck mounted to relive the exciting hunt whenever I look at him above my reloading bench. Not sure how much bigger I have to shoot to "show off" for you.



http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/Fisher-Dude/HPIM1291.jpg
Nice looking Whitetail that a Wyoming buck .......

[#49]

I agree with Moose Guide deer # in our area I believe are down as I live in Kaslo so what he sees is what I see.You cant make blanket statement about WT #s in your area are good so they must be good everywhere.Road hunt and you wont see deer OK but where are the # on the highways and bush roads?And no I don't road hunt.2 to 3yrs ago there was tons of sign everywhere why would it disappear.I don't have the answer but I don't think making other hunters feel like shit is going to help with whats going on in their particular area.And no its not just me or Moose Guide but other hunters who have much more time afield than I have the chance to

[Husky7mm]

I shoot does. And spikes. And Forks. And bigger bucks.

I got this buck mounted to relive the exciting hunt whenever I look at him above my reloading bench. Not sure how much bigger I have to shoot to "show off" for you.



http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/Fisher-Dude/HPIM1291.jpg

Field pics with your lovely mug in it or it didn't happen.... :)

[f350ps]

Help me out here FD with your 10 Deer limit as I can't seem to find anything coming remotely close to that for Wyoming. What I did find out is that they have between 60 and 70,000 Whitetails for the whole state so I find it hard to believe that they'd have a 10 Deer limit, but I'm sure I must be wrong as you wouldn't try and bullshit us would ya? I do know that they have about 375,000 Mule Deer in that state and they're concerned that the numbers have dropped a bit and are coming out with some changes to their regs again this year. Can you point me in the right direction on your Whitey stats as I'm heading down there next year and I'd love to get in on a cull! Thanks, K

[KevinB]

I said from what I see around here, there's not enough White Tail Deer to warrant a Doe season, here, where I live, not in other area's, reason being I have no idea how many WT's are in your area's, I don't live close to you, nor do I drive every inch of your hunting spots to make a guess on how many WT's are there. But, around here, yes, there are some WT's around still, but not even close to what we've seen in previous years. Out of all the guys that hunt up here, I've only heard of one WT buck being taken, and it was a spike, haven't talked to anyone yet that got a WT Doe.

Where around the Loops do you live M.Dean? Personally, around Kamloops I continue to see WT's pop up in more and more places all the time.

I have had a couple of crappy trail cams out in an area that is pounded by road hunters and by hunters on foot. Within sight of a road that has multiple trucks doing the creeping road crawl on it every day. Getting more WT's on them this year than last year and I have several different bucks and a bunch of does even in daylight hours.

When I hunted the area this year the ratio of muley to WT sightings was roughly even, but the ratio on the cameras was a whole lot different - one or two muley does, and many, many different WT's. Every time I checked the cameras I get multiple different WT's. If I didn't have the cameras out I would maybe come to the conclusion that there aren't many WT's in the area but the cameras don't lie.

Granted this is hardly meaningful as it is one small area and only my limited observations so take it for what it's worth.

[one-shot-wonder]

I have never before seen so many whitetail bucks killed, and solid bucks for that matter from Region 3 as this year!

[Trophyslayer]

185"+ killed in region 3 this Saturday I seen the pics the thing is wild! Their out there quit your wining everyone they are just smarter now

[358mag]

I have never before seen so many whitetail bucks killed, and solid bucks for that matter from Region 3 as this year!

One more got a sled ride home today , a little short on details but was able to lend a hand to help hang it on the beam by the pool ..............http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.png

[Ourea]

One more got a sled ride home today , a little short on details but was able to lend a hand to help hang it on the beam by the pool ..............http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.png

And we thank you.

[f350ps]

Wyoming can't reduce the population with a 10 deer limit. They have wicked winters, 102,000 hunters (same as us) on a land base of 253,348 km2 compared to BC's 944,735 km2. They have huge wolf and cat problems.

So, almost 4 times the hunter density, predators through the roof, big winters, and a 10 deer limit. You cry about a 2 deer limit in the Kootenays. Reality bites.
Another little tidbit I found out about is that wolves are on a quota system, I'm sure if they were a real problem it would be NBL. Again, can you give me your info source as I've applied for a muley tag but I'd really love to get in on the Whitey cull and maybe one of the abundant wolves. Thanks, K

[358mag]

And we thank you.

And your welcome .. enjoy your nightcaps .....

[Ourea]

Where around the Loops do you live M.Dean? Personally, around Kamloops I continue to see WT's pop up in more and more places all the time.

I have had a couple of crappy trail cams out in an area that is pounded by road hunters and by hunters on foot. Within sight of a road that has multiple trucks doing the creeping road crawl on it every day. Getting more WT's on them this year than last year and I have several different bucks and a bunch of does even in daylight hours.

When I hunted the area this year the ratio of muley to WT sightings was roughly even, but the ratio on the cameras was a whole lot different - one or two muley does, and many, many different WT's. Every time I checked the cameras I get multiple different WT's. If I didn't have the cameras out I would maybe come to the conclusion that there aren't many WT's in the area but the cameras don't lie.

Granted this is hardly meaningful as it is one small area and only my limited observations so take it for what it's worth.

KevinB, good observations.
I am not challenging others observations but when I read a quantified one that involves solid cam intel with numbers and trends I listen more. WT habits in the war zone I hunt in have completely changed since the doe season. Seldom will they even cross main roads. I have talked to several hunters in this area who haven't see a WT all season and are pissed, again saying the doe season is to blame. The WT habits have dramatically changed with the WT doe season implementation, hunters habits have not. You have hunters in one corner saying no deer, doe season to blame.....in the other corner our group has killed 3 bucks in a one square mile area and counting and have passed on numerous others. Where is reality.


What I find interesting on this topic is that the observations are so polar.
There appears to be no neutral ground or a consensus.
So again, where is the reality?

I think this is more a story of a dramatic shift in WT behavior in response to a regulation change.
No doubt that there are number issues in some areas as reported but the situation is far from "the sky is falling".
History of the WT is too long and too well documented to think that we are wiping them out.....they are far to adaptive and resilient.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I think this is more a story of a dramatic shift in WT behavior in response to a regulation change.
No doubt that there are number issues in some areas as reported but the situation is far from "the sky is falling".
History of the WT is too long and too well documented to think that we are wiping them out.....they are far to adaptive and resilient.

Bingo-WTD are, by far, the most studied animal in North America. I doubt you will find one real wildlife bio that has concern over our antlerless season here.

SSS

[blacklab]

So we've taken an animal that was easy to hunt, and made it really difficult. Like I said earlier in this thread the easiest animal out there now is a young Mule deer, guess what my wife and I and our grandson are going to shoot! We hunt for meat!
So killing of as many whitetail as possible is going to backfire.

A bunch of people on here should reread the last page of Geist's book on Mule deer.

[Husky7mm]

Mulw deer "Death by a 1000 cuts"

[Stone Sheep Steve]

So we've taken an animal that was easy to hunt, and made it really difficult. Like I said earlier in this thread the easiest animal out there now is a young Mule deer, guess what my wife and I and our grandson are going to shoot! We hunt for meat!
So killing of as many whitetail as possible is going to backfire.

A bunch of people on here should reread the last page of Geist's book on Mule deer.


Whitetails are not difficult to hunt as long as you change up your tactics a bit. You need to adapt.

They are not mule deer.
More people are filling their freezers with whitetails than in the past. They can handle more harvest as they are more prolific breeders than mulw deer.

SSS

[GoatGuy]

So we've taken an animal that was easy to hunt, and made it really difficult. Like I said earlier in this thread the easiest animal out there now is a young Mule deer, guess what my wife and I and our grandson are going to shoot! We hunt for meat!
So killing of as many whitetail as possible is going to backfire.

A bunch of people on here should reread the last page of Geist's book on Mule deer.

Really difficult?

Go sit on a trail and shoot a deer. We had one of our best years ever in terms of sitting. One morning we had 11 deer go by before lunch. When you're watching one trail that is a pretty awesome morning in my opinion.

[boxhitch]

What I find interesting on this topic is that the observations are so polar.
There appears to be no neutral ground or a consensus.
So again, where is the reality?No doubt a response due to the communication we have these days. If someone hears ten times that Joe says there are no deer , people repeat that as fact , without personal insite.
I have heard from a couple of sources of a group that always hunts the upper Kettle and this year claim there are no deer left , but we know contrary . Word gets around , bad news even faster .

[blacklab]

Whitetails are not difficult to hunt as long as you change up your tactics a bit. You need to adapt.

They are not mule deer.
More people are filling their freezers with whitetails than in the past. They can handle more harvest as they are more prolific breeders than mulw deer.

SSS
No where in this thread did I say I had any trouble killing a whitetail. I've taken a buck every year since 1985, most years I took 2. What concerns me is people treating them like vermin.
I was totally in favor of opening the antlerless season originally, but cannot support what is happening now.
It will be interesting to see how long it takes before people realize this has been a mistake. I guess if some people can get an easy big buck that's all that really counts.

[boxhitch]

Go sit on a trail and shoot a deerand with their aggression as it is , almost nothing responds to calling more then a WT buck . Have had several come in when calling during the MD rut , and its not even their season yet.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

No where in this thread did I say I had any trouble killing a whitetail. I've taken a buck every year since 1985, most years I took 2. What concerns me is people treating them like vermin.
I was totally in favor of opening the antlerless season originally, but cannot support what is happening now.
It will be interesting to see how long it takes before people realize this has been a mistake. I guess if some people can get an easy big buck that's all that really counts.

There is a difference between treating them like 'vermin' and understanding their biology.

SSS

[blacklab]

Since when has wildlife in this province been managed based on biology?
If it has been, maybe we should try something else.
I had hopes that the Whitetail deer would be the animal that would be there for new hunters. An animal they could see lots of and have a successful hunt. So much for hunter recruitment!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Since when has wildlife in this province been managed based on biology?
If it has been, maybe we should try something else.
I had hopes that the Whitetail deer would be the animal that would be there for new hunters. An animal they could see lots of and have a successful hunt. So much for hunter recruitment!


Do you realize we were one of the last jurisdictions in whitetail habitat in North America without an antlerless season?? And we probably have as much cover as any other area

[f350ps]

Do you realize we were one of the last jurisdictions in whitetail habitat in North America without an antlerless season?? And we probably have as much cover as any other area
Well said, Whitetails are extremely prolific breeders. Wyoming has a population of between 60-70,000 with a 10 deer limit, 3 bucks and 7 Does if you can believe it and it's still sustainable! K

[Salty]

There is a lot of BC that didn't have any whitetails 30 years ago that does now my old stomping grounds PG for instance. They are expanding their range more than any hoofed animal I can think of. I just don't think there's a conservation issue in hunting antlerless in areas where they are well established.

[hunter1947]

There is a lot of BC that didn't have any whitetails 30 years ago that does now my old stomping grounds PG for instance. They are expanding their range more than any hoofed animal I can think of. I just don't think there's a conservation issue in hunting antlerless in areas where they are well established.

Unless the wolfs cat are cleaning them out..

[Husky7mm]

Well said, Whitetails are extremely prolific breeders. Wyoming has a population of between 60-70,000 with a 10 deer limit, 3 bucks and 7 Does if you can believe it and it's still sustainable! K

Don't repeat info that has not been proven.

[f350ps]

Don't repeat info that has not been proven.

It's been proven alright, proven to be B.S. K

[RBooth]

In the timber. Out of sight of a road, within 10-500yards of a road. You can shoot a year and a half old and a doe in a lot of areas and in major crossings almost any time of day. As for the older boys, don't hunt them like you might for a mule deer. Sit all day, rattle, rattle and move, creep thick timber, any of those will be more productive in my eyes than driving roads and hiking cuts (you can still wack a beauty from the road in the rut, no doubt, but not the best odds in my opinion). Oh, and wait for the rut on the older boys, Ourea can vouch for that. Pretty hard to get the older boys pre rut unless you have a nice set of infrared goggles and like hiking at 2am!

[Ricky Bobby]

It's been proven alright, proven to be B.S. K

FYI.

ISSUANCE OF DEER AND ANTELOPE LIMITED QUOTA LICENSES, REDUCED PRICE DOE/
FAWN LICENSES, ELK LIMITED QUOTA LICENSES, AND REDUCED PRICE COW/CALF
LICENSES.
(a) For deer, no person shall apply for and receive more than one (1) full price deer
license (General, Type 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 9) through the initial drawing. After the initial
drawing is completed, any person may apply for and receive up to two (2) full priced deer
licenses provided that at least one (1) license is a Limited Quota Type 3 any white‐tailed
deer license. However, no person shall apply for and receive more than a total of two (2)
deer licenses valid for the taking of antlered or any deer, of which not more than one (1)
shall be valid for antlered or any mule deer.
(b) For deer, any person may apply for and receive a maximum of two (2) limited quota
reduced price doe/fawn deer licenses (Type 6, 7 or 8) through the initial drawing. After the
initial drawing is completed, any person may purchase up to four (4) limited quota reduced
price doe/fawn deer licenses. However, no person shall apply for and receive more than a
total of four (4) limited quota reduced price doe/fawn deer licenses. In Hunt Areas 24,
27, 29, 30, 32, 33 or 163 after the initial drawing is completed, any person may purchase an
unlimited number of limited quota reduced price doe/fawn deer licenses.

[f350ps]

^^^^Thanks for that! So I can't kill 10 Deer, is that what you're saying? :) K

[Sitkaspruce]

You sure kill a lot more than you can here......but really who cares. Whitetails are so prolific and adaptive they we, as hunters, will never affect their population, especially with the regulations we now.

Adapt, lean new ways to kill them or go home empty handed, bitching on here won't fill the freezer.

Cheers

SS

[Husky7mm]

While not debating how effective it is folks from sask. have been sitting in blinds over bait for decades. Not a new tactic, just new to people that are use to driving around and shooting deer on the side if the road.

[Ourea]

I think this recent cam videos underscores my point.
This cam is in the area where the hunters I talk to say that the WT are gone thanks to the doe season.
Three juvie bucks would suggest that recruitment is not in question in this war zone.
Numerous cams I run are showing the same.
If my video documentation showed otherwise I would be the first to point out concern based on video data.


http://youtu.be/w8YXM9K1xzM

[blacklab]

So tell me why a few little nocturnal bucks is a good thing.

What region?

[one-shot-wonder]

If you have spent any amount of time on HBC you will know that Ourea has a boatload of footage of many different bucks, young and older. along with that comes reams and reams of footage of does, yes those endangered WT does.

Point is it this is called hunting, no shooting!....if you want to road hunt and shoot pets along the side of the road, start gaining permission on private land or HUNT like the rest of us!

["No Choke"Lord Walsingham]

There are still plenty of Whitetail Deer located throughout the East Kootenay, in my experience. Animals will naturally vary as per which areas they choose to primarily inhabit. This holds true for Mule Deer, Blacktail Deer along with most all other Game Species likewise. Alternating locales is a common tactic taken by such animals in response to various stimuli, including predation from other animals and Hunters.

The Whitetail Doe season in the East Kootenay is a very good thing in my estimation. This is not responsible for people not seeing Deer where they used to in the same number they're used to finding. There is no need to be more restrictive with seasons, I do not support the recent change to a 4-point only Mule Deer season from any Buck. Such things are social management and I do not believe they produce the desired result.

Check out some new areas and get off the road is my choice. This is also what I advise others to do if they are not seeing animals in their old spots.

[KevinB]

Just came back from retrieving my 2 cams that I had set up in a VERY busy area a few minutes out of Kamloops. Both cams were within 100-150 meters of a road, practically within sight of it, and the area has several roads running all through it. Lots of traffic - hunters, firewood cutters, guys shooting at targets, bush parties, you name it. I hunted it only a couple of times this fall, mainly because it is close, but I saw only 2 whitetails, and 2 muleys. This included a bit of still hunting and sitting in a natural ground blind for several hours a few times in a good spot. You might then conclude that there weren't that many whitetails around in the area, maybe around the same number as there are muleys.

So what did I get on the 2 cameras for a month worth of footage?

22 whitetail bucks
48 whitetail does/fawns (despite the doe season that's apparently wiping them all out...)
7 unknown whitetails
1 muley buck
1 muley doe
couple of coyotes
12 hunters on foot on 11 different days. Only two had binoculars, only one had rattling antlers.

Obviously several of the whitetails were repeat guests, but there were at least half a dozen different bucks. Most small, one that was pretty decent.

The cameras don't lie. The whitetails there, in that spot, but I bet that half of the hunters in the area wouldn't believe there are any whitetails around.

[blacklab]

How about posting some pics of the whitetail you've taken.

[one-shot-wonder]

OK start it off, ready......go!

[.264winmag]

That's more whitetails I've heard around the entire Kamloops area in the last few years!

[.264winmag]

Funny, thought I'd try a little xbow hunting the last few days. Could have shot a doe tonight but trying to get within 40 yds of any whitetail is a task and a half! Sure a bunch get shot from the road every season but getting close and personal reminds you how tough they are to harvest, even a doe. I think they'll be fine numbers-wise regardless of open doe season, even though I'm still undecided on it...

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Trying to spot and stalk whitetails with a bow is extremely challenging. That's why most are taken from a blind or treestand.

A buddy and I were in our treestands watching a group of does and fawns feeding. It was a pretty windy day and everytime a branch would break or a twig snap, the entire group would explode and disappear and after a few minutes would slowly return to feed. My buddy and I would just look at each other and shake our heads as to how spooky the deer were.
Generally when they hear a sound they run first before they figure out what it was that made the sound.

SSS

[hunter1947]

A tree stand is a good you wait and watch.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2x63gE5AEk

[.264winmag]

I can't stand being stuck in one spot, ADD I guess. I'll never make much of a now hunter I'm afraid! I'll sit in one spot all day if I can glass some real estate though.

[HarryToolips]

I can't stand being stuck in one spot, ADD I guess. I'll never make much of a now hunter I'm afraid! I'll sit in one spot all day if I can glass some real estate though.
Sit sit sit is what I've learned..almost got a wt buck at 20 yards yesterday but he was movin too fast lol...

[.264winmag]

Oh I sit believe me! I just prefer 320yds instead of 20, I need lots of country to keep me occupied:)

[KevinB]

Blacklab,
you mean the trail cam pics?

[Ourea]

So tell me why a few little nocturnal bucks is a good thing.

What region?

Blacklab, I never stated, suggested or insinuated that, "is a good thing" so I don't get ur comment.
I was showing physical evidence of WT recruitment in an area where some are claiming that the doe season has cleaned out most of the WT. Cameras are showing the majority of does are sporting twins and that the buck ratios are higher since the implementation of the doe season. Evidence clearly shows that there is a healthy and sustaining WT population in the area I am extensively cam'ing despite others claiming they have all been but wiped out.
I can only speak for this area which is in reg 8.
I cannot comment on your area.

There is no doubt that some areas WT numbers seem to have dipped.
Based on the endless studies and documentation hunting generally is not a factor however.
It usually is disease, predation or environmental factors.

One thing I will side with you is that WT are becoming much harder to kill in some areas as a result of the GOS on does.
Becoming nocturnal is a common reaction.
That's simply WT doing what WT do and that is adapt.....thus their proliferation as a species.

The days of driving around or still hunting cut blocks and easily taking a WT are behind us in most areas.
Things have changed.
Hunters that adapt to the changing WT behavior will easily find success.
Those that don't will knee jerk and point the finger that regulation is to blame.

Again, I can't comment on your area's WT numbers.
I can pass on my observations in the area I am hunting and cam'ing extensively that some purport the WT are wiped out.
Evidence shows that they are not.

As I stated before, I find it interesting when views are so polar on topics such as this.
There appears to be no common ground.

[blacklab]

I don't remember saying they are getting wiped out, I just don't think the liberal seasons aren't doing the whitetail or the mule deer a lot of good. In fact like I said earlier small mule deer bucks are now my meat animal.
I'm on Logan Lake, so think about the first place people hit to hunt whitetail when they leave the lower mainland.
I hunt regions 3,4 and 8, I can't say much about 8 because I haven't hunted it much.
What I'm trying to figure out is what is wrong with having an animal that is abundant and easy to harvest.
I was hoping whitetail populations would stay healthy, I have grandson that will be hunting next year. I wanted to show how to "hunt"like I do. I hunt the old fashioned way, I hunt the bush. I've never road hunted whitetail, or shot one in a log slash.

[aggiehunter]

just got back from the EK...pretty grim...but oh well......

[lovemywinchester]

No shortage of WT around Kamloops or region 3 in general I would say. That's for sure. I killed two WT bucks this fall with the new regs and I know of a lot of others taken as well. I got a lot of WT does on my cams and personally laid my eyes on several bucks over the fall that I couldn't get a shot at as well as a few does. My phone is loaded with WT pics and trail cam pics from my buddies and hunting acquaintances. All directions around Kam have lots of them from the reports I got this year and over the last few.

I know lots of guys that tried for WT and did not connect but saw them and just couldn't get it done. Cams full of nice WT bucks and does, day and night. They are just a cagey, smart animal and they are hard to get standing still for long enough to get a shot.

My good buddy hunts around Kelowna and he killed a WT and saw MANY this fall. Including one that he saw with his son in youth season that his son couldn't hit. He described it as a a monster. Said it killed him that after 3 misses he couldn't grab his sons 243 and shoot it, lol. Teaching morals can be tough on the adult! No shortage of WT there I would say.

Like Ourea said. Hunters need to adapt to the tactics needed to kill WT. Its not mulie hunting. You won't get to glass the same herd of WT for a few days before you pick out the one you decide to kill. Not in most cases anyway. Having said that the WT seem to live year round in the same area. You may encounter the same buck or does several times if you are out there enough. Ask any one that lives and hunts around Whitecroft. There are three does running around the farms there that several guys were after. I saw them myself. Last I heard they are still there. Gave everyone the slip in Oct.

[lovemywinchester]

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/022_zps3eb38e8d.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/022_zps3eb38e8d.jpg.html)
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/015_zps13b57cd5.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/015_zps13b57cd5.jpg.html)
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/050_zpsff985dc9.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/050_zpsff985dc9.jpg.html)
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/020_zps9d4a2f7f.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/020_zps9d4a2f7f.jpg.html)

Last day spiker.
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/026_zpsa3b00ef7.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/026_zpsa3b00ef7.jpg.html)


They are out there. Such good eating as well. Well worth the hassle and frustrations of hunting them.

[aggiehunter]

I believe we always harvested wt does...either by LEH or BOS...if a person is baiting deer and thinking the population is doing good they are somewhat mistaken....those are "THE" deer that are there and you get to see them because your giving them the goodies...keep those cam's up without bait and get back to us. If the powers to be want to manage wildlife for hunter recruitment and retention they are on a slippery road.

[Husky7mm]

I believe we always harvested wt does...either by LEH or BOS...if a person is baiting deer and thinking the population is doing good they are somewhat mistaken....those are "THE" deer that are there and you get to see them because your giving them the goodies...keep those cam's up without bait and get back to us. If the powers to be want to manage wildlife for hunter recruitment and retention they are on a slippery road.

I agree, and would like to add, I see all our new fair weather friends bailing as they start to come up dry. Alberta had no problem with recruitment and now in many zones people are fighting over the scraps. Sad

[HarryToolips]

You guys should read 'Whitetail Advantage'...numerous studies have shown a WT doe harvest is good for the overall pops...they are extremely cagey buggers, hard to get...some of my WT areas I see them still increasing in numbers...yes they have gotten a hell of a lot harder to hunt..just my observations

[KevinB]

I believe we always harvested wt does...either by LEH or BOS...if a person is baiting deer and thinking the population is doing good they are somewhat mistaken....those are "THE" deer that are there and you get to see them because your giving them the goodies...keep those cam's up without bait and get back to us. If the powers to be want to manage wildlife for hunter recruitment and retention they are on a slippery road.

I don't recall saying anything about bait.

[aggiehunter]

Kevin, Your right....whats your question.?

[KevinB]

Aggie, not sure what you mean. I don't have a question. I was pointing out that I'm getting plenty of whitetails on my cameras and I haven't been using any bait.

[Sitkaspruce]

For me, I get an avg of 7-10 different deer on a bait and camera over the month of Nov. The same deer show up pretty well every day (especially the does/fawns and smaller bucks) and the bigger bucks every 2-4 days, as they do a "walk about". One cam this year had the odd WT buck show up, but there would be as many as 9 mule does on one picture.

On the drive to and from the cam, I drive approx. 15 km of road through private land with lots of fields, I will see between 20-40 wt deer in the fields every time. We have a wt doe season and mother nature to deal with, yet the amount of twins and even triplets I see form the wt does in mind boggling.

Baiting only brings in the deer from maybe a km or two, the does find it first usually, and they bring in the bucks, but not always. In the 2 years I have hunted the bind/bait system, I have seen 14 deer and 3 bucks for over 90 hours of hunting. Yes it can be said that the deer are concentrated, but for only a small area. I see way more deer still hunting or sitting in the fields and they tell me there is deer out there....at least in the Peace.

Wt are so adapt at making more wt's that we, as hunters, will never completely stop them. Slow them down maybe, but not stop them.

hunters will either adapt or bitch, but the deer will still be there.

Cheers

SS

[aggiehunter]

Kevin, what I meant by you were right is that you were right...you didn't mention anything about using bait...I never said you did and my post was in general not meant as a direct response like this one is. Put some of your pics on here...or have you?

[lovemywinchester]

I have never used bait either. I put my cams on obvious game trails. Facing as north as I can when placing the cam. I have never actually killed a buck using cam intel. I use them more to gauge the deer in the area and for the rush of seeing a nice buck walk by.

If you want to kill a nice buck in mid Reg. 3 I would recommend you take the last two weeks of November off and just hunt WT. The tail end of the mulie rut is prime WT hunting time.

[KevinB]

I really can't be bothered aggie.

[aggiehunter]

Kevin, I assume you mean you won't be bothered to post pics...no problem..me either. I'm not quite as secrective as Shockey hiding his bait behind logs...you can seem my cracked corn clearly.

[62silverado]

Breed like rats, crap on me for opposing the the doe season, you guys are idiots, do you actually know what hunting is ? Ripping around in your trucks or atvs shooting anything that moves (does,fawns,cubs) is not hunting. Sell your gear, take up paintball and do us all a favor by staying out of the bush.

[nelsonob1]

Breed like rats, crap on me for opposing the the doe season, you guys are idiots, do you actually know what hunting is ? Ripping around in your trucks or atvs shooting anything that moves (does,fawns,cubs) is not hunting. Sell your gear, take up paintball and do us all a favor by staying out of the bush.

That's quite the first post. Nothing like starting with a bang.

[62silverado]

Awfully silent now though, all the peckerwoods trying to come up with something intelligent to say, which may be impossible. After what Ive seen in the last couple years, this is the first time in 34 years I am actually disgusted in my fellow hunters. I do not need to apologize to those with character and who posses good hunter ethics as you know who you are. The other 80%, the slaughterhouse gang, just like to pretend they have character and that they are big bad ass. Hunters they are not, let alone MEN.

[.300WSMImpact!]

Awfully silent now though, all the peckerwoods trying to come up with something intelligent to say, which may be impossible. After what Ive seen in the last couple years, this is the first time in 34 years I am actually disgusted in my fellow hunters. I do not need to apologize to those with character and who posses good hunter ethics as you know who you are. The other 80%, the slaughterhouse gang, just like to pretend they have character and that they are big bad ass. Hunters they are not, let alone MEN.

lol wow, you are an awesome hunter I can tell by your posts, how can we all live up to your awesomeness, maybe start a thread and tell us how we can be as good as you

[HarryToolips]

Breed like rats, crap on me for opposing the the doe season, you guys are idiots, do you actually know what hunting is ? Ripping around in your trucks or atvs shooting anything that moves (does,fawns,cubs) is not hunting. Sell your gear, take up paintball and do us all a favor by staying out of the bush.
I'm a hike in hunter myself but if people like to hunt in quads or trucks to each their own... I personally find the WT very skiddish, and even the does are hard to kill, though I have let many walk due to having yearlings with them..

A short WT doe season like we have I think is a good thing (although it seems with the 2 doe limit in the koots in conjunction with the elk season has hit em hard in a couple areas I hunt)..I suggest you read Whitetail Advantage

[Whonnock Boy]

Possibly he is a GO, and the only way he knows how to take out his frustration with the RH is to insult, and berate us. Welcome to HBC. :confused:

[.300WSMImpact!]

Possibly he is a GO, and the only way he knows how to take out his frustration with the RH is to insult, and berate us. Welcome to HBC. :confused:

my thoughts as well

[Daybreak]

Classic symptoms of LTVW disease.

Long Term Venison Withdrawal. I've seen it before and it is not pretty.

Other symptoms include long hours staring at the empty freezer and wails of "WHY, WHY WHY" heard throughout the neighbourhood.

[lovemywinchester]

Classic symptoms of LTVW disease.

Long Term Venison Withdrawal. I've seen it before and it is not pretty.

Other symptoms include long hours staring at the empty freezer and wails of "WHY, WHY WHY" heard throughout the neighbourhood.

A few guys on here suffer from that. Endless posts and threads and logged on the computer 24 hrs a day. Thats what happens when you're not tending the BBQ or smoker. Idle hands are the tool of the devil.

[Everett]

Well wife and I went out shooting today in a 10 minute drive up a local FSR at 2pm we saw over 100 whitetail deer obviously we need to close the WT doe season because meat hunter shot all the deer. To guys like 62silverado you obviously are just a wana bee trophy hunter (that's code for a crappy hunter) who doesn't know anything about Whitetails who is jealous of Jo Average meat hunters who can get the job done to fill their freezers.

[Islandeer]

Well wife and I went out shooting today in a 10 minute drive up a local FSR at 2pm we saw over 100 whitetail deer obviously we need to close the WT doe season because meat hunter shot all the deer. To guys like 62silverado you obviously are just a wana bee trophy hunter (that's code for a crappy hunter) who doesn't know anything about Whitetails who is jealous of Jo Average meat hunters who can get the job done to fill their freezers.


LOL!!!! you nailed it!!!! Whities must have reeaally big brains ....

[Islandeer]

Awfully silent now though, all the peckerwoods trying to come up with something intelligent to say, which may be impossible. After what Ive seen in the last couple years, this is the first time in 34 years I am actually disgusted in my fellow hunters. I do not need to apologize to those with character and who posses good hunter ethics as you know who you are. The other 80%, the slaughterhouse gang, just like to pretend they have character and that they are big bad ass. Hunters they are not, let alone MEN.


Whatever...... your a wanna something. Maybe try selling shoes, you could serve all the White tail you want then.

[bigneily]

Well wife and I went out shooting today in a 10 minute drive up a local FSR at 2pm we saw over 100 whitetail deer obviously we need to close the WT doe season because meat hunter shot all the deer. To guys like 62silverado you obviously are just a wana bee trophy hunter (that's code for a crappy hunter) who doesn't know anything about Whitetails who is jealous of Jo Average meat hunters who can get the job done to fill their freezers. Come on bud , A ten minute drive up a local road and over a hundred whitetails?. I think your full of shit, Things must have been some hazey from your point of view, Next time due us a favor and roll the window down and let the smoke clear. Maybe then your numbers could be a little more believable.

[Savage Man]

Come on bud , A ten minute drive up a local road and over a hundred whitetails?. I think your full of shit, Things must have been some hazey from your point of view, Next time due us a favor and roll the window down and let the smoke clear. Maybe then your numbers could be a little more believable.
Well Said give me a brake!!!!

[karnivoar]

A few years back I was hunting 3-18 with a young fella, we're heading back to the cabin and he says look at that and jumps out of the truck and starts shooting at a at doe with 2 fawns, misses and takes of running after them, so he eventually shot the doe and drags it back to the truck! Any way I help him gut it out and loo and behold it's still lactating. Well it was his first deer so I guess what I'm on about here is the more a person hunts the more they calm down and take things cool. I quit going with him cause he is still a bit trigger happy. His killin that wt doe bothers me still, it's like he killed three deer that day. I know the experts say the fawns will survive, but I wonder what the coyotes would say about that. One old sheep hunter said" I only hunt Rams, I don't kill women and kids", I guess some of us want to keep it Mano a Mano, I'm just sayin!

[wideopenthrottle]

Since when has wildlife in this province been managed based on biology?
If it has been, maybe we should try something else.
I had hopes that the Whitetail deer would be the animal that would be there for new hunters. An animal they could see lots of and have a successful hunt. So much for hunter recruitment!
mass population CRASHES of wt deer are way more common in areas where wt pops have become too high...this is due to them crowding each other too much which facilitates the spread of diseases (look at any study on why large scale feeding of deer in the winter is a recipe for disaster) ....Also, too many animals for the amount of AVAILABLE WINTER forage results in wt deer running out of food when we get a hard winter with lots of snow for a year or 2 (remember that they all eat until the food is gone then they die in huge numbers from starvation :it is not a gradual decline)...this also opens up the whole debate about predator/prey population dynamics that has a lot of misinformation held as common knowledge as well...like others have also pointed out WT have been the most managed species in north America with tons of trial and ERROR results...

[Fisher-Dude]

A few years back I was hunting 3-18 with a young fella, we're heading back to the cabin and he says look at that and jumps out of the truck and starts shooting at a at doe with 2 fawns, misses and takes of running after them, so he eventually shot the doe and drags it back to the truck! Any way I help him gut it out and loo and behold it's still lactating. Well it was his first deer so I guess what I'm on about here is the more a person hunts the more they calm down and take things cool. I quit going with him cause he is still a bit trigger happy. His killin that wt doe bothers me still, it's like he killed three deer that day. I know the experts say the fawns will survive, but I wonder what the coyotes would say about that. One old sheep hunter said" I only hunt Rams, I don't kill women and kids", I guess some of us want to keep it Mano a Mano, I'm just sayin!

The fawns will be fine.

Next.

PS - nice first post.

[wideopenthrottle]

Blacklab, I never stated, suggested or insinuated that, "is a good thing" so I don't get ur comment.
I was showing physical evidence of WT recruitment in an area where some are claiming that the doe season has cleaned out most of the WT. Cameras are showing the majority of does are sporting twins and that the buck ratios are higher since the implementation of the doe season. Evidence clearly shows that there is a healthy and sustaining WT population in the area I am extensively cam'ing despite others claiming they have all been but wiped out.
I can only speak for this area which is in reg 8.
I cannot comment on your area.

There is no doubt that some areas WT numbers seem to have dipped.
Based on the endless studies and documentation hunting generally is not a factor however.
It usually is disease, predation or environmental factors.

One thing I will side with you is that WT are becoming much harder to kill in some areas as a result of the GOS on does.
Becoming nocturnal is a common reaction.
That's simply WT doing what WT do and that is adapt.....thus their proliferation as a species.

The days of driving around or still hunting cut blocks and easily taking a WT are behind us in most areas.
Things have changed.
Hunters that adapt to the changing WT behavior will easily find success.
Those that don't will knee jerk and point the finger that regulation is to blame.

Again, I can't comment on your area's WT numbers.
I can pass on my observations in the area I am hunting and cam'ing extensively that some purport the WT are wiped out.
Evidence shows that they are not.

As I stated before, I find it interesting when views are so polar on topics such as this.
There appears to be no common ground.

I think you would actually find most peeps can see both sides of the debate therefore are somewhere in the middle so they don't comment hence the polar opposite posts...

[Sitkaspruce]

Hunter are not and never will be the cause of any whitetail population "crash", if there is such a thing for whitetails. Way too many other factors that affect populations. And way to much country in BC that has no or very limited access that rarely see a hunter. Most hunters only believe what they see in the area they hunt.....and for most hunters, that is the same place as other hunters. Deer are not stupid, they learn to adapt....most hunters don't.

Up here in the Peace, hunters will not affect WT deer populations, too much private land and way too much country for the number of hunters. Weather plays a way bigger factor. Seeing lots of does with last years twins, will see the same again this year.

Cheers

SS