A First Nations couple facing poaching charges ...

[East Van Ray]

Rights or Racism or Poaching? Thoughts everyone?


http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/couple-claims-persecuted-indian/


Couple claims they are being ‘persecuted for being Indian’
By: Tim Petruk in Courts, Crime, Justice, Law & Order, News November 13, 2014 0 525 Views


A First Nations couple facing poaching charges claim they are being “persecuted for being Indian.”
Jay Coutts and Fara Palmer were in Kamloops provincial court on Thursday, Nov. 13, where they entered a three-page notice of constitutional question.
The pair is fighting its charges — one count each of trafficking in wildlife, while Coutts faces an additional count of hunting during prohibited hours — on the grounds they violate their rights as natives.
In court, Coutts said his aboriginal rights trump Canada’s laws.
“All the words in these laws are white-man words,” he said.
“These are laws built for non-native people. It is for white people, not native people.”
The notice of constitutional question cites a number of prominent Canadian cases dealing with native legal issues, including the recent Tsilhqot’in decision.
Coutts and Palmer were charged after an undercover operation by the B.C. Conservation Officer Service in April 2013.
They’re accused of selling deer meat to undercover conservation officers in Cache Creek. It’s alleged the officers went to the house Coutts and Palmer were living in and purchased meat.
Outside of court, Coutts told KTW he was making a living selling the meat — something he believes he has the right to do.
“I’m being persecuted for being Indian — for doing my job,” he said.
“How is it possible that I can sell the hide, but I can’t sell the meat?”
Coutts said aboriginals are allowed to hunt “for food and sustenance” in Canada.
He said that should mean he’s allowed to sell deer meat.
“My rights existed before 1800 and they still exist today,” he said.
“To my society, it’s integral.”
Coutts and Palmer are in the process of hiring a lawyer.
They are due back in court for arraignment on Jan. 26

[f350ps]

Just another cost to the taxpayers, they'll walk!! K

[Sofa King]

they are right.
our laws are made for non-native people.
Indians almost seem exempt from all of them.

[Dannybuoy]

agreed , no different than fish ....

[dougan]

Fry the pricks

[Coachman]

If he was born in the 1800's then fine. But he wasn't. What was legal for "white people" in the 1800's isn't legal now.

[Hanrahan]

"Hunting during prohibited hours"

I'd like to see that one stick. I don't think it's anyone's tradition to pit lamp. The COs here won't do anything about it though. Not worth the battle apparently.

[walks with deer]

Lets see him trade it like before 1800s with another native for things of that era.

You want a basket, beads, or homemade knife, for that front quarter?

[Shooter]

greeeeeaaat.. They are going to win their case like they always do and that will set the precedent. Then wait and see the shit show that happens. It won't just be coolers of Sockeye on the side of the road everywhere.

[chinooker]

Pieces of shit! Before white contact no one had a 30-06 a jet boat quad or a f 150 or any white trash to sell game or fish to! Or a band cheque to finance any of it!

[303savage]

I figure native should have the rights now that they had before we came here, but should only use the tools they had before we came here.
As soon as they use our technology they should be governed by our laws.

[fearnodeer]

It's just not right, one law for everyone.

[jamfarm]

It's just not right, one law for everyone.

Agreed... and IBTL, ha!

[r106]

It's just not right, one law for everyone.

Agreed.

Such a simple concept, but so hard for some to grasp

[Vladimir Poutine]

“All the words in these laws are white-man words,” he said.
“These are laws built for non-native people. It is for white people, not native people.”

The cheques were built by whitey as well. No problem accepting that fact apparently.

[Wild one]

Broke the rules he is a poacher and should be charged

Problem is the race card is being played and we have all seen how it goes with FN :cry:

1 law for all would be nice

[russm86]

greeeeeaaat.. They are going to win their case like they always do and that will set the precedent. Then wait and see the shit show that happens. It won't just be coolers of Sockeye on the side of the road everywhere.

It's already happening... Was hunting in region 5 near Riske Crk in October, filled up 1 day at the little FN run gas station/store in Riske Crk. They were advertising whole smoked deer for sale for $400. I didn't go back there as I won't support that (anymore than my taxes already are).

[timbermilton]

Yup, EVERYONE should have to follow the same damn laws. No one special! Hell, I hunt with a "primitive" bow, bamboo arrows with my own flintknapped heads, or an atlatl. I don't think I should be aloud special favors/treatment. And by blood, I'm more "native" than most who claim it. It's 2014 not 1802, they've incorporated everything thing else modern, hy not hunting and fishing? Because they want to be special, and people let them get away with it.

[digginsweatinswearin]

Yes, it's B.S. and yes , they'll walk but that doesn't mean we stop trying.

[J_T]

Most of my adult life I have believed in the principal of 'one law' for all. We share the land, one rule. However with more experience, more wisdom and more understanding now, I do see the difference, and I do see how separate rules 'can' apply.

If we can use some of these moments in time when the discussion of 'what is a FN right' to raise questions about conservation and about integrating the rights of first nations people in to our conservation management strategies then we are headed in the right direction.

Oh, and IBTL. Cause I just know with some of the comments this one is getting locked down.

[goatdancer]

If it's for sustenance, why isn't the deer meat being eaten?

[.264winmag]

303savage you nailed it in my opinion. I have no other comments as I've live in Terrace and all over the island and most of what I've seen from fn and huntin/fishin makes my blood boil...

[luckofthedraw]

If he was born in the 1800's then fine. But he wasn't. What was legal for "white people" in the 1800's isn't legal now.

Exactly. The laws have to adapt with the times, and this one is long long overdue.

[srupp]

If it's for sustenance, why isn't the deer meat being eaten?

Hmmm how come you can say it neater and nicer than I ever could?

Exactly as goatdancer said..ibtl
Steven

[IronNoggin]

greeeeeaaat.. They are going to win their case like they always do and that will set the precedent. Then wait and see the shit show that happens. It won't just be coolers of Sockeye on the side of the road everywhere.

And therein may well be a Very Serious Problem!


mpotzold: Sorry! The precedence has already been set a while back by similar cases paid by the taxpayer.
Constitution Act, 1982 Section 35 provides constitutional protection of aboriginal rights (including hunting & fishing). Unless the country breaks apart don’t think the Constitution Act 1982 will be changed/rewritten in the foreseeable future.

Handing FN's the "right" to SELL game does not require re-writing of the Constitution Act, rather a simple defining of what FN "rights of access" to fish, and in this case wildlife means, as interpreted by the Court.

Should this pair win their argument that such "rights" extend to the actual selling of wildlife, a MAJOR can of worms will be opened. Expect it will then head to the Supreme Court. Hope like hell they ain't successful there Folks. The effects on our efforts at game management and overall game populations could well be DEVASTATING! :cry:

This practice is already common enough without legal sanction. And but in extremely rare cases is anyone ever charged. Given a "legal green light" I strongly suspect the effects will be Extremely Negative all-round! :evil:

Holding my breath on this one.

Nog

[Shooter]

And seeing that they get first dibs on everything, when numbers go down who do you think will get shut down first.

[Hanrahan]

Most of my adult life I have believed in the principal of 'one law' for all. We share the land, one rule. However with more experience, more wisdom and more understanding now, I do see the difference, and I do see how separate rules 'can' apply.

If we can use some of these moments in time when the discussion of 'what is a FN right' to raise questions about conservation and about integrating the rights of first nations people in to our conservation management strategies then we are headed in the right direction.

Oh, and IBTL. Cause I just know with some of the comments this one is getting locked down.

I'm not necessarily opposed to sustenance huting. I'm not even opposed to hunting to help feed the community, especially elders who can't do it themselves. What I am opposed to is misuse of that right. Letting meat spoil, profiteering, pit lamping, unsafe hunting practices, inhumane treatment of animals, etc. those laws should apply to everyone.
On another, related note, there is an 11 yr old girl who is now going to take the bullet for "Native Rights" - sacrificed by her family in a misguided and politicalized stand against the "White Man's Laws". Unfortunate to say the least.

[Bugle M In]

Ya...this is always a hard thread!
On 1 hand, I want to make a comment, but than it may be construed for being racist!
And on the other hand, I am criticized for doing nothing by keeping my mouth shut and allowing things to go on the same..or slowly worse!
IBTL....?Mods must all be out hunting!:mrgreen:

[East Van Ray]

First Nations people are exempted from the application of the Wildlife Act in certain circumstances as a result of the recognition in section 35(1) of the Constitution Act, 1982 (Canada) of existing aboriginal and treaty rights. Court decisions have confirmed that the constitutionally protected First Nations right to hunt and fish for food, social and ceremonial purposes takes priority over non-First Nations uses of wildlife resources. In recognition of this right, First Nations people are not restricted to specific seasons or to bag limits when hunting, fishing or trapping within their traditional hunting areas for food, social, or ceremonial reasons. - http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlifeactreview/discussion/disc_04.html

Generally, poachers are most likely to kill for profit. - http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/rapp.html

"...selling deer meat..." - Rights or poaching??? Pretty obvious ...

[RugDoctor]

Not that I agree with this.....but all who are tooting the "if they couldn't do it then, they shouldn't be able to do it now" horn.....they can. Right or wrong, the law recognizes advancements in hunting/gathering. Meaning that according to the law, FN are entitled to advancements in technology (vehicles, aluminum dip nets, modern firearms etc.) when exercising their "traditional" rights. The law seems to believe that even without aid, the primitive Native of the time, somehow, would have put themselves on par with modern hunting and survival methods by now.

In other words, they would've brought themselves from exactly where they were....stealing from each other, eating dogs and horses, and each other, to a place where they would invent gun powder and internal combustion engines. So yeah.....according to the laws of this land, they are still using "traditional" methods of hunting and fishing. Even when they are asking you to buy salmon from the trunk of an Impala, or blazing a Canadian Tire million candle power lamp to "harvest" that "sustenance moose.

[walks with deer]

Same as any rights group maintain your culture yes..
However take advantage different story.
Groups isolate themselves.
I am sure they were dry does and bucks being sold!!!eg sustainble harvest....




Right!????!!

[Cordillera]

in addition to "food, social and ceremonial", aboriginal rights may include a right to trade, if that specific First Nation traded that specific thing pre-contact. Yikes; a right to trade wildlife has only been proven in one situation (Heiltsuk, I think) for Roe-on-kelp, and was refused by the courts for Lax Kwalaams in fish. Simply put the Lax couldn't prove they traded fish. I think they found the weather was too wet; the fish rotted. You can't trade rotten fish.

so, did this First Nation truly trade in deer pre-contact? Anyone have access to old Hudson bay records from 150 years ago? this will see several years in the courts to play out.

[russm]

The comments on the Facebook post are pretty funny, it was hard to not post something responding to those idiots but as the saying goes "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all", when subjects like this come up at work I get some questionable looks and comments from people as if to say there's nothing wrong with anything that they're doing.....

[Bugle M In]

"or blazing a Canadian Tire million candle power lamp to "harvest" that "sustenance moose."

Well.. there is 1 of the problems I have...I am not able to use that power lamp, if I do, I am charged!
And ya know, I am a native Canadian, I was born here, where the hell is my Status Card!
Oh sorry!, wrong skin color.....oh hey wait!...I thought in Canada we don't discriminate on the basis of skin color??!!
Hey Guys...where the heck are we????????????????????????????????

[HarryToolips]

Sad sad sad..if only our govt had baalllzzz...instead of catering to the natives we should be tellin em rules are the same for all, if they don't like it they can all move to Baffin island...

[Hanrahan]

Sad sad sad..if only our govt had baalllzzz...instead of catering to the natives we should be tellin em rules are the same for all, if they don't like it they can all move to Baffin island...

That won't work. The Inuit certainly don't want them up there. Something about being ambushed and murdered that the Inuit have a hard time forgetting.

[Dirty30-30]

This shit makes me sick... enough said

[Singleshotneeded]

One law and set of rules for all Canadians...anything else is racist. Indians can hunt anytime on their reserve, but on Crown land they have to follow the regulations like everyone else.

[Quince]

Just "White man words or laws?" Honestly wake the f@ck up! Haida used to raid eachother for slaves... Should that be ok as well because it was traditonal? Hope they get jail time for this and not any of that tribal justice crap! One law for everyone please. Time to join society and be a part of CANADA while being native.
And before i get a label of racist i gave my deer hides to the local band for drum skins in the area i was hunting...

[wayneec]

agreed , no different than fish ....
This is bull shit if they want to have the same rights and hunt like they did in the 1800's then go in the bush make a bow and arrow instead of taking advantage of the system this is our own governments fault giving them everything. I haven't shot a deer or anything for 5 years and you see the natives shooting 3 does like it's nothing. You don't think the white man back in the 1800's didn't hunt like wtf

[Apolonius]

The only way to stop it is,make it totally illegal to be in possession of wildlife without license.No letters and transfer permits.Whites abuse that too!!!Punish the buyer with a very heavy fine and let the native use his right to sell/trade.No buyers ,no sellers.Punish the butchers too,by making it illegal to process game for a buyer that he did not have a permit/license to that animal/fish.If the native delivers to the white/non native ,he is ok but the buyer is still in illegal possession of a "legally" harvested animal.End of story. I know i am dreaming.

[Iron Glove]

Whether or not the First Nations can legally sell their wildlife will be decided by the Courts. Like it or not, that's the reality of the situation.
However, ultimately if you don't agree with it, simply don't buy anything from the First Nations. No buyers = no sellers.
I wonder how many on this site bought Sockeye at the side of the road this year ??

[Gunpoint]

I didn't know First Nations sold venison in the 1800's? Regardless, it is 150 years later and the country is full of people of all sorts of race, culture and backgrounds. Simply put we're all still human and have an obligation to respect and preserve nature for our future generations. The laws have been put in place to ensure this will happen. People who choose to ignore these laws because of harboured resentment are acting foolishly. If these so called " white man" laws don't apply to aboriginals then I suppose laws such as driving on the wrong side of the road doesn't apply? Take some initiative and try it out for while and lets see how well that works out for you. Better yet, lay down on the road in any attempt to stop me from getting to my tree stand. Nobody is preventing first nations from hunting and gathering but it needs to be done responsibly. Also, being ignorant to the fact that people have hunted all over this world for a very very very long time does not entitle you to think you solely have the "right" to harvest and gather.
This is the first time I've ever posted anything on this very touchy subject and will be the last. There are many bad things happening in this world that deserve much more attention than the childish bickering between First Nations and the "white man". Besides, I need to pack my day bag for my deer hunt tomorrow.

[ElectricDyck]

I worked with a guy from the lilloet band (when he wasn't at home on a bender) that told me a guy living on the reserve killed over 500 does and was selling them in pemberton before the chief told him to settle down...I think people would be shocked if the truth on harvests ever came out.

It's all bullshit and it's only going to get worse if our government doesn't get smart somehow or grow a back bone....

I don't buy sockeye from indians and never have, nor do I buy stolen stuff from crack heads....

[benevs]

One law and set of rules for all Canadians...anything else is racist. Indians can hunt anytime on their reserve, but on Crown land they have to follow the regulations like everyone else.

Agreed. The laws need to reflect the times, night hunting with modern technology is straight up cheating and should be considered poaching regardless of ethnic/cultural background.

[Bugle M In]

I worked with a guy from the lilloet band (when he wasn't at home on a bender) that told me a guy living on the reserve killed over 500 does and was selling them in pemberton before the chief told him to settle down...I think people would be shocked if the truth on harvests ever came out.

It's all bullshit and it's only going to get worse if our government doesn't get smart somehow or grow a back bone....

I don't buy sockeye from indians and never have, nor do I buy stolen stuff from crack heads....

Around Cache Creek, I spoke with a couple of higher ups from the band at one time, nice guys, one even passed along some advice where to hunt around there, which has since paid off.
during the same discussion, he told me he had already taken 4 deer to that point already ( Nov. LW ), which originally surprised me, but than later thought, it wouldn't be hard for a family
to consume those deer in a year, if that was their main source for meat etc.
But, than a day later, I spoke to another native, ( not from the band up there, think he was kicked out of the Lytton Band as well ), and he says to me he has already taken "20" deer so far!:shock:
It wasn't just me he told that to, others confirmed him saying the same thing.

So there you go, some individuals stick within a reasonable guidelines ( regardless if we agree that it should be this way ), and a few others BLOW the hole thing wide open, and are probably responsible
for creating hell with the game in the areas they operate.
Like having poachers working your backyard, and no one can stop them.

Some sort of guidelines have to start be implemented, penalties and fines like the rest of us.
You can't have one country, and yet different rules for special interest groups, that's not equality, and will only lead to further problems and potentially civil disobedience down the road if not curbed.
As an Astronaut said, while circling the earth in the shuttle..." from space, you see just how small earth really is ".
We all need to get our ducks in a row here, it's more than just about he gets, she gets mentality here, it's about all of us conserving and protecting what belongs to ALL OF US!

[Dougielightning]

Completely unsustainable horse shit. Recently had band in our area with bus and van to haul meat home shoot anything thing that moves what you think ends up left. Nothing lots of native friends though that do it right to provide food for thier family. And hunt the regulated seasons good on them

[gone hunting]

ONE COUNTRY, ONE PEOPLE, ONE LAW. Anything else is racism and is going to create a huge mess down the road.

[gone hunting]

I dislike the term "First Nations". It implies that there is more than one Canada or more than one level of Canadian citizenship. One that has all of the basic rights of a Canadian and another that has all of those rights and a bunch more. The thing I dislike most about the implication is that it's true.
When my grandfather was a boy he used to pit lamp. When the meat stores got low in the root-cellar he would take his 22 and go and harvest a deer the easiest way he knew how... That was along time ago and most people don't live that way now. Time marches on and I don't get to pick and choose the things I want to keep from the past and discard the things I don't...but then again I must have the wrong level of Canadian citizenship.

[Liveforthehunt]

Bs they will walk of course a status card is like a free pass to life as we know it in Canada rather not rant too much on this subject deer numbers are low in areas I used to see lots because they head up the hill "hunting" when your heading down seen it too many times now cube van full of animals moose deer elk. We all need to stand together to make a change somehow this isn't traditional hunting selling game meat it's poaching simple as that ... they want traditional ok horse stick and string torch .. is that not fair ?

[winbuckhunter]

This country needs a revolution!!! EQUAL rights to ALL Canadian citizens, no matter what race. Times change, laws change, if you were born here you should have the same right as the next. I believe in protecting Said traditional native lands, preserving what history there is in this country. But this is all getting out of hand, we're all as equally Canadian as the next. Laws are made for conservation, need to put that first. Instead of their selfish "rights"

[Liveforthehunt]

This country needs a revolution!!! EQUAL rights to ALL Canadian citizens, no matter what race. Times change, laws change, if you were born here you should have the same right as the next. I believe in protecting Said traditional native lands, preserving what history there is in this country. But this is all getting out of hand, we're all as equally Canadian as the next. Laws are made for conservation, need to put that first. Instead of their selfish "rights"

Idno about a revolution lol although it could change the history for our kids and maybe there will be a deer or two left when they are old enough

[srupp]

Hmmm democracy is a farce...97 percent of Canada are not indians...and to keep the pig trough flowing with 40 % getting ready to retire...and the blockage of much needed programs and keep the $800,000 for these chiefs of 35 individuals plus the hundreds of millions we know of...put it to a vote keep puking it down the cesspool...or get ready for dealing with middle class tax payets, Cpp, actually improving the lot for those who have paid into the system their entire lives..not these thiefs thst poach and steal game and sell it hidi g behind the bs of the racism card..
Pathetic and will impact every member that reads this...diminishing Canadian resources to fund this 3 % fringe natives.
Steven

[BigfishCanada]

Who cares what this guy thinks is the law, the laws the law, fine him and bann him. Why is this a discussion ? In my opinion race should have nothing to do with it, hes wrong, fine him and jail him if he continues

[Ozone]

Is it to late to bring back the death penalty?

[Dannybuoy]

Who cares what this guy thinks is the law, the laws the law, fine him and bann him. Why is this a discussion ? In my opinion race should have nothing to do with it, hes wrong, fine him and jail him if he continues

First off I am not defending these actions ..whether it be fish or game , I think it is wrong on many levels . BUT the facts are that a lot of "laws" do not apply to
"first nations" as they have been recognised as a distinct nation within a nation ( or however it is worded) anyone that works within the court system will be abl to tell you this .... different rules for natives and whites ... different penalties as well if guilty .

[gone hunting]

With regards to that "nation within a nation"...why is it that one nation's tax dollars are funding the other nation?

[winbuckhunter]

Bingo!!!!!!

[RugDoctor]

As stated....it's in the CCC lighter penalties for "aboriginals". Guilty or not there will be very little consequence. Not to mention the money grubbing lawyers who will get paid to pound the table for their "right" to do whatever they want all on the legal aid (tax) dollar.

Legal all reform is what's needed. We have a for profit legal system.....for the profit of lawyers and judges. They love cases like this....lucrative, challenging and fun with no consequence or risk to themselves.

This is how and why they're paid.....why on earth would they try to discourage this sort of activity?

[adriaticum]

As stated....it's in the CCC lighter penalties for "aboriginals". Guilty or not there will be very little consequence. Not to mention the money grubbing lawyers who will get paid to pound the table for their "right" to do whatever they want all on the legal aid (tax) dollar.

Legal all reform is what's needed. We have a for profit legal system.....for the profit of lawyers and judges. They love cases like this....lucrative, challenging and fun with no consequence or risk to themselves.

This is how and why they're paid.....why on earth would they try to discourage this sort of activity?


This is exactly how I see it.

[gone hunting]

I don't agree with the suggestion that if FN's want to hunt by 19th century rules, (meaning no rules) then they should use 19th century tools. Non-native Canadians aren't allowed to do that and like I said before "one country, one people, one law". If it's OK for a Canadian to feed his family by hunting in the off season or with a light or whatever then it shouldn't be OK just because his ancestors did it that way, it should be OK because his family needs the groceries...It should be a matter of need not skin tone.

[wsetter]

I agree with pretty much everything besting said so far. My suggestion to make a stand against this act and others like it would be to get down to the courthouse on the 26th of Jan and voice our opinions in a respective manner not to make things worse and let the media take it from there. The power of media and social networking is unimaginable.

[Bugle M In]

I agree with pretty much everything besting said so far. My suggestion to make a stand against this act and others like it would be to get down to the courthouse on the 26th of Jan and voice our opinions in a respective manner not to make things worse and let the media take it from there. The power of media and social networking is unimaginable.

Yup!., your right...that's how all those other groups got started.
Be there, and start bringing it to the media to bring to everyones attention.
Good point...something us hunters have never really started.
Probably where the BCWF should start focusing some attention??

[gone hunting]

We need a hero. Someone to run for election on the unpopular platform of equality. Someone who is willing to say that the residential schools were a bad idea but I'm not a priest or a pedophile...let's get over it and move on. Yes we dragged you out of the stone age and for that we will be forever sorry...we gave you alcohol.. you gave us tobacco...we'll stop giving you welfare...you get a job...we'll stop treating you like you can't make on your own and you start paying taxes. Life on a reserve must suck but why would you leave when the alternative is having to work for a living?

[hunter fisher]

they are right.
our laws are made for non-native people.
Indians almost seem exempt from all of them.

^ nailed it

[Phreddy]

I've been reading along, biting my tongue and trying not to get pi$$ed off, but there is a lot of evidence that they who call themselves "first nations" weren't necessarily first. There have been many good findings of remains that pre-date the known arrival of what we have now that immigrated across the ice bridge between Eurasia and North America. (Spirit Cave Man, Kennewick Man, etc.) to name but a few. These early people have completely disappeared but every once in awhile more evidence of their existence comes to light. What it all boils down to is, just like we who are being discriminated against the so called First (?) Nations are nothing more than fellow immigrants who displaced someone else. As I tend to get a little worked up over all the crap they're spouting I think I'll just finish off for now.

[Bugle M In]

I've been reading along, biting my tongue and trying not to get pi$$ed off, but there is a lot of evidence that they who call themselves "first nations" weren't necessarily first. There have been many good findings of remains that pre-date the known arrival of what we have now that immigrated across the ice bridge between Eurasia and North America. (Spirit Cave Man, Kennewick Man, etc.) to name but a few. These early people have completely disappeared but every once in awhile more evidence of their existence comes to light. What it all boils down to is, just like we who are being discriminated against the so called First (?) Nations are nothing more than fellow immigrants who displaced someone else. As I tend to get a little worked up over all the crap they're spouting I think I'll just finish off for now.

hey partner...don't bite your tongue! ( just careful how u say things is all ) ...but do get pissed!...we all should be getting pissed off!
I want to start by not giving them my money anymore..

[olympia]

hahaha fooilish white man complain and hand over money to indian man, white man mad...but white man cant seem to do anything about it so he come on internet and cry...nothing will get done because white man not orangaised enough to fight the unjust laws. Hahah I have to go now whiteman, I think the mail man is at my door with a cheque.

[adriaticum]

hahaha fooilish white man complain and hand over money to indian man, white man mad...but white man cant seem to do anything about it so he come on internet and cry...nothing will get done because white man not orangaised enough to fight the unjust laws. Hahah I have to go now whiteman, I think the mail man is at my door with a cheque.

Olympia, the problem is that if we are not going to resolve grievances in peaceful manner, we will resolve them in other ways. And i guarantee you that i know who is going to get the short end of the stick that way.

[olympia]

Olympia, the problem is that if we are not going to resolve grievances in peaceful manner, we will resolve them in other ways. And i guarantee you that i know who is going to get the short end of the stick that way.

for about 125 years the natives had it bad and for the next 100 years we will have it bad...its a cycle that will repeat itself for eterenity. The 2 different ethnicities in involved may change but that how we humans are prorammed to act

[Whonnock Boy]

You're right olympia. There is nothing we can do but take it, all while people like you throw it in our faces. I guess this is what our forefathers thought would be best when dealing with an inferior race. Is this what you want people to think? Really??? A race of people that needs to be nestled in the bosom of our government sucking on the teat of the people? Do you ever want to be self sufficient? Do you ever want to be considered equal, as in, not more equal than others? Do you think this is what our creator intended for it to be like? Do you think our creator made this all for you? I sometimes wonder......

[proguide66]

hahaha fooilish white man complain and hand over money to indian man, white man mad...but white man cant seem to do anything about it so he come on internet and cry...nothing will get done because white man not orangaised enough to fight the unjust laws. Hahah I have to go now whiteman, I think the mail man is at my door with a cheque.
And you keep proudly getting drunk , creating "you're" communities with %100 fetal alcohol syndrome and raping your children with that cheque !!! YOU just keep rockin that one out !!!
Take a big long proud store out your window and tell us just how much you have to " laugh at " ... And come back in here and share away .. ... ' MAN ' !!!

[Ranger95]

hahaha fooilish white man complain and hand over money to indian man, white man mad...but white man cant seem to do anything about it so he come on internet and cry...nothing will get done because white man not orangaised enough to fight the unjust laws. Hahah I have to go now whiteman, I think the mail man is at my door with a cheque.

This just about sums it up - dosent it?

For a very long time the boot was on the other foot - the Indian got the thumping - "one land one law" oh! how the natives of BC, would have loved to hear you lot sing that song about 75 years ago!!!

Now that the tables have turned - (and will probably turn even more) with the BC government being forced to sit down and negotiate a long lasting treaty (like everyone else in Canada) the protestors doth protest...........

Come on people - the guy in question did wrong - just don't paint the entire First Nations with the same brush - all of them have their rights just as you have your rights.

If they want to hunt on their lands with guns and lights or bazookas - who are we to point fingers at them? - white men poach too, white men pit lamp as well, white men shoot at night (just go down to mud bay any day of the week)

I have said before and I will say it again - never throw stones if you live in a glass house.

Ok - let the flaming begin!!!

[gone hunting]

The pendulum swings one way then the other but the problem is laws are being etched in stone that are going to give their great great grand kids rights that our great great grand kids won't have. That is no way to run a country.

[adriaticum]

for about 125 years the natives had it bad and for the next 100 years we will have it bad...its a cycle that will repeat itself for eterenity. The 2 different ethnicities in involved may change but that how we humans are prorammed to act

I do not see evidence that anywhere in history.
Majority always wins and it's up to the minority to decide what kind of mark they want to leave on the culture of the majority. In most cased the minority behaves in such manner that it's simply wiped out
I see the same happening with the FNs.
They abuse the privileges given to them, the austercise members of their community who think differently. Many bands have the policy of excommunication of memebrs of mixed race
This does node bode well for them and the majority who leave never come back and leave with major grievances.