Wolf research

[Cordillera]

Interesting article. The part that catches my attention is that hunting can upset pack dynamics, and lead to multiple litters per social group. I think Yukon studies found the same and concluded that hunting wolves, if not done thoroughly (i.e take the whole pack) can lead to increased predation.

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Heavily+hunted+wolf+populations+have+elevated+stre ss+reproductive+hormones+study+reveals/10374289/story.html

[adriaticum]

It doesn't necessarily mean that more wolf families means more adult wolves.
The study doesn't exactly say that more fragmented wolf packs means more predation and more wolves in the long run.
Higher reproductive rate doesn't mean larger population.
I would suspect if the wolf packs are broken apart and you only have 2 or 3 members in a pack they may have more pups in a year but their survival rates will be lower.
Wolves hunt by overwhelming their pray with numbers. Small pack has a smaller chance of killing a big animal like a moose or a caribou.

[bearvalley]

The list of participants in the study tends to throw out all credibility.

[bearvalley]

Interesting article. The part that catches my attention is that hunting can upset pack dynamics, and lead to multiple litters per social group. I think Yukon studies found the same and concluded that hunting wolves, if not done thoroughly (i.e take the whole pack) can lead to increased predation.

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Heavily+hunted+wolf+populations+have+elevated+stre ss+reproductive+hormones+study+reveals/10374289/story.html

What the Yukon studies found is true. The only way to manage a problem pack is to take it all out. In the last 15 years since BC's moratorium on 1080 wolf control has been nothing but a bandaid fix at best. In areas where partial packs have been removed ( by trapping or hunting methods) the relief from problem wolves is very short lived as the disrupted packs break up and form new packs. Before the 1080 ban and the urban mentality of sacred wolves complete pack removal was possible and results could be seen. The difference in big game populations from that era to what we have today is testimony to the difference in results. Disregardless of pack size wolves eat meat. It doesn't matter if it's 4 packs of 3, or 1 of 12. The end result is the same.
We can carry on buying the buckets of garbage that groups like Raincoast keep passing out and eventually the over supply of wolves will thin out on their own. In the meantime a lot of wildlife is going to get made into wolf turds.

[boxhitch]

Maybe the timing of hunting and trapping makes them more effective ?
Taking out pack members in the winter months may help improve the lamb/kid/calf/fawn carry-over if more make it through the first year ?
Especially if done after the canine rut , I would think pred numbers would see temporary drop

[Squirrelnuts]

Participants included University of Calgary, Raincoast Conservation Foundation, University of Victoria, Hakai Beach Institute, and Israel’s Bar-Ilan University.

University of Calgary, eh? Paul Paquet's influence is likely (though it seems he's in Victoria now), which should set off alarm bells. He's *almost* as credible as David Suzuki.

[bearvalley]

University of Calgary, eh? Paul Paquet's influence is likely (though it seems he's in Victoria now), which should set off alarm bells. He's *almost* as credible as David Suzuki.

Exactly. Anyone that buys into that trash article should take out a Greenpeace membership or send Raincoast a donation. Paquet would be happy with a total ban on the harvest of predators. If we think big game populations are dropping now just remove the opportunity to hunt & trap wolves.

[Ridge-Runner]

I like it ; hunting increases wolves stimulus to reproduce . People have been arguing this for years, hunting and trapping alone cant regulate or control wolves, we need more proactive, long-term and effective management. Thanks, great info, sounds like more tools are needed in the tool box of wildlife management. Always nice to have supporting data!!!

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I have lived here 10 years now and have seen the wolf population climb the first 7 years. There has been a few of us that have really gone after the wolves as of late and made a difference the past 3 winters, approx 25 killed in 2012, 30 in 2013, 40 in 2014. This is within 30 minutes of my house.
Now the the wolf numbers seems to have leveled off and the ungulates appear to be slowly bouncing back.

What I believe happens is the pack splinters after the Alpha's are dead. This does create more mini packs and more breading pairs. That being said. survival is a lot tougher without numbers, survival rates of these new litters are lower due to less food and territory battles.

By taking out scores of wolves locally you have kept that many away from the dinner table for an extended period, even if the numbers are the same the next winter you are talking 40 pups that replaced the ones that died.
These pups are hardly contributing to the pack, and are not as efficient at killing as any adults taken the previous winter.

[bearvalley]

Chilcotin hillbilly,what you say is true. If every trapper, rancher or outdoorsman that had the opportunity & ability to reduce wolf numbers got at it as hard as you guys it would make a difference. But it has to be large scale. Not localized. The problem lies with half ass attempts and fragmented packs looking to establish their own territory. If wolves were hit as hard from the Fraser River to the coast range and equal distance north to south to the extent you guys are targeting them a difference would be seen.Go with an even bigger area and the results would be huge. Past history can attest to that. As it is new wolves are going to move into any areas that are vacant and the wolf issue continues on.

[Cordillera]

One more part of the Yukon studies that was interesting was the effect of pack size on total ungulate mortality. It makes sense that larger packs are more effective, but for a lot of situations even a small pack can easily kill an ungulate. What happens after is interesting; small pack kills an animal, then eats its fill, but leaves some waste behind. The other scavengers eat the rest and the small pack has to kill another one shortly after. A larger pack consumes the whole carcass. in essence, multiple small packs kill more ungulates than a single large pack, and the ravens/fox/etc benefit.

the reason I find this interesting is that it corroborates other research that predator management needs to be thorough to be effective. Wolf reproduction is impressive; they breed fast and furious (not like moose....). Trapping or other means that target the odd animal won't work (will be overwhelmed by other factors) and the odd wolf killed might be the dominant, with the unintended impact of splintering a pack and more babies.....

Point is, it's more complex than some people think (kill a wolf, save ten moose) and you need to be thorough, scientific if you want to accomplish something.

food for thought.

[bearvalley]

Some parts of Yukon wolf management were never published. In the effort to recover the Forty Mile caribou herd it was published that the Alphas in multiple packs were sterilized and those 2 were left to remain in their territory. The rest of the pack members were TRANSLOCATED. The words of one of the Yukons top wildlife experts who was running the caribou recovery program were " Where do you move a wolf where there isn't one already". The pack members other than the 2 alphas were all euthanized.
Predator control isn't new and is effective if done right. As I've said on other prior posts you can not manage wildlife without managing predators. Trapping & hunting wolves is just a bandaid. These methods of control can be very effective on a small scale but the void created by any wolf removal is soon refilled from the surrounding area. The only way effective wolf control can be implemented is (1) go with a scenario such as the one described above (2) Ariel shooting in a large part of BC or (3) remove the moratorium on 1080. I'm not suggesting 1080 be blanket dumped in the same manner as other lethal baits were in the past but used properly it was and can be again one of the best methods of complete pack removal.

[drakfero]

One more part of the Yukon studies that was interesting was the effect of pack size on total ungulate mortality. It makes sense that larger packs are more effective, but for a lot of situations even a small pack can easily kill an ungulate. What happens after is interesting; small pack kills an animal, then eats its fill, but leaves some waste behind. The other scavengers eat the rest and the small pack has to kill another one shortly after. A larger pack consumes the whole carcass. in essence, multiple small packs kill more ungulates than a single large pack, and the ravens/fox/etc benefit.

the reason I find this interesting is that it corroborates other research that predator management needs to be thorough to be effective. Wolf reproduction is impressive; they breed fast and furious (not like moose....). Trapping or other means that target the odd animal won't work (will be overwhelmed by other factors) and the odd wolf killed might be the dominant, with the unintended impact of splintering a pack and more babies.....

Point is, it's more complex than some people think (kill a wolf, save ten moose) and you need to be thorough, scientific if you want to accomplish something.

food for thought.

I dont think so , you kill ALFA , another becomes ALFA but will be at least bit smaller.. and couple may kill each other by the fight to be ALFA..

Look at this video.. If one wolf can kill bison by him self , he can kill anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO1IWlYlUH0

[Schutzen]

I dont think so , you kill ALFA , another becomes ALFA but will be at least bit smaller.. and couple may kill each other by the fight to be ALFA..

Look at this video.. If one wolf can kill bison by him self , he can kill anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO1IWlYlUH0


Yup usual wolf video...

Its ok to damn human hunters for "sport" killing but ever notice that they don't go into any details into how much that Buff suffered. Or show the video of the process
The slow ugly way it died and was prolly fed on while weak but still alive.

Its great to see we still have networks that give these wildlife first/wolf lover weenies a forum for their crap videos.
Show it all uncensored!
That would be refreshing and a wake up for the dummies that buy into that garbage.

If I'm that buff and l have to go anyway l take a bullet any day over being killed by a wolf and fed on by them.

I wish there was a video out there that hunters could get shown with the real truth about wolves and their hunting/killing activities.

[kebes]

Not to derail the thread but... any particular method you find to be most effective Chilcotin?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Not to derail the thread but... any particular method you find to be most effective Chilcotin?

Piss post foothold trap sets with 10 or so snares put in well places secondary travel routes with in 50 yards of the traps. If you can afford lots of foot hold traps then they can be placed in travel routes or in bedding areas. Plan on catching the alpha first with the piss post and the others will hang around for a good 24 hrs or more giving plenty of opportunity for the snares to work their magic.

[bearvalley]

Piss post foothold trap sets with 10 or so snares put in well places secondary travel routes with in 50 yards of the traps. If you can afford lots of foot hold traps then they can be placed in travel routes or in bedding areas. Plan on catching the alpha first with the piss post and the others will hang around for a good 24 hrs or more giving plenty of opportunity for the snares to work their magic.

X2 on chilcotin hillbillys trapping methods. Done in the same method as some of the old time predator trappers like Milt Warren and the Lays. To bad more of the modern wolf trappers don't go this route instead of reinventing the wheel. The problem today is guys are not using enough traps or snares to deal with large packs. The result of that is survivors that have become trap wise. If an Alpha is caught the pack will often break up and create new packs. End result .....more wolves. Packs don't need to be reduced, they need to be completely removed in large areas in order to drop wolf numbers and rebuild wildlife densities.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Piss post foothold trap sets with 10 or so snares put in well places secondary travel routes with in 50 yards of the traps. If you can afford lots of foot hold traps then they can be placed in travel routes or in bedding areas. Plan on catching the alpha first with the piss post and the others will hang around for a good 24 hrs or more giving plenty of opportunity for the snares to work their magic.

Great info - thks for Sharing ! :wink: RJ

[Phreddy]

I am still putting out the spot fires for my comment on what makes a "good" wolf in the comment sections of that article. lol Lots of Latte drinking experts didn't like it one bit.