Ask your LEH questions here...

[Gateholio]

SUFAYOT has managed to convince his friend that administers the LEH system to answer us some questions.

He doesn't want to be bombarded, so here is how it goes- Ask the question here, I'll contact him, and get back to you.

There may be quesitons that are out of his scope of things...So not every question will get answered I am assuming.

And when he is busy, answers could take some time, so be patient..

First question?

[Hilgy]

Dont know if this is the right place to ask this but I was wondering, with it sounding more and more like we will not have access to the Nanaimo lakes area will there still be elk tags available there??

[CanAm500]

Is region 1-4 having a elk LEH this year?


When do we get to apply for LEH's anyway?

[TRACKnTRAIL]

Have they ever considered going to an LEH system similar to Alberta's where every year you aren't drawn your odds go up?

[frenchbar]

Ask him when the hell im ever going to get a MOOSE draw---just kidding ,but it would sure be nice to get a draw sometime in my lifetime.

[Elkhound]

Have they ever considered going to an LEH system similar to Alberta's with an odds system instead of random?

This was my question as well

[boxhitch]

Statistics for hunter effort and success are reported by species and Management unit, including all hunts by resis and non-resis. The same info is not available for a specific LEH hunt.
Is it possible to have a report available, containing actual permit numbers issued, Hunter numbers, Hunter effort in days, and success rate ?

[kamloops killer]

Lets fill out our LEH tags in April then have the draws in lets say the first week of May. Sounds good to me what you all think of that.
Doug:twisted:

[Steeleco]

Why can't the draw be earlier in the year?, so that winners can have more time to plan.
Most folks book holidays for the following year prior to the end of the current year.

[Mr. Dean]

Why can't the draw be earlier in the year?, so that winners can have more time to plan.
Most folks book holidays for the following year prior to the end of the current year.

Two votes for this one.

[The Dawg]

Two votes for this one.

Make it three.....

[todbartell]

Im sure he is running for cover now! :lol:

[ohno]

Go to a digital system and get away from the stone age paper system. I hear the LEH folks spend a huge amount of time fixing errors on those paper forms. Then someone has the enter all the card data into the "super computer". Other Provinces/States have lottery systems that work well, we are not re-inventing the wheel here.

Deep breath........Ahhhhh.
Ok I feel much better now.
O.

[TPK]

Go to a digital system and get away from the stone age paper system.

I agree. I believe one of the big plus's with the electronic system is that if you do get a draw but for what ever reason can't use it, you can put that draw back into the system and it can be awarded to another hunter.

[SUAFOYT]

Go to a digital system and get away from the stone age paper system. I hear the LEH folks spend a huge amount of time fixing errors on those paper forms. Then someone has the enter all the card data into the "super computer". Other Provinces/States have lottery systems that work well, we are not re-inventing the wheel here.

Deep breath........Ahhhhh.
Ok I feel much better now.
O.

I hope he answers this one. The answer he gave me made for some real good conversation around the fire.

[30-06]

Two votes for this one.

I Go 4 Votes On This One

[WoodOx]

Go to a digital system and get away from the stone age paper system. I hear the LEH folks spend a huge amount of time fixing errors on those paper forms. Then someone has the enter all the card data into the "super computer". Other Provinces/States have lottery systems that work well, we are not re-inventing the wheel here.

Deep breath........Ahhhhh.
Ok I feel much better now.
O.

I Really like this whole idea actually, alot more leh animals would be harvested I bet.

Another vote for the Alberta system - gives the ability to build up "points" per se, and then one could save up to get the animals theyd want. Then those few guys who get sheep every couple years could stop and I could get a draw! :D

[gameslayer]

Have they ever considered going to an LEH system similar to Alberta's where every year you aren't drawn your odds go up?

I agree with that it would better circulate the tags and allow us to all have more opportunities. I have a fiend that has not officially been drawn yet in Albeta this year but is already planning the trip because statistaclly it is his year.

[Gateholio]

A few years ago, the answer to "why don't we have a points based system liek Alberta" is....

We can't.

Some hunts the odds are so high that if you started applying when you were 18 you MAY get a tag by the time you retire.8-)

But I'll ask...8-)

[rugeer]

My question like a few other of the guy's, is why can't the draws come out earlier like in May giving us working men a chance at booking our holidays for trips if we don't get a draw, it would benifit every one from guides, outfitters as well as small communities that depend on our hunting revenue

[30-06]

when do LEH's come out

[Mr. Dean]

My question like a few other of the guy's, is why can't the draws come out earlier like in May giving us working men a chance at booking our holidays for trips if we don't get a draw, it would benifit every one from guides, outfitters as well as small communities that depend on our hunting revenue

This makes 5...

[Radar]

I'm in for the draws coming out in may :)

[zigman]

earlier draws would be nice...
Also any unused tags should be re-drawn if time permitted.
Let's say i got a tag and couldn't go, i could either transfer the tag or return it to be re-drawn?! Just an idea.

[Benthos]

I'm sure many won't like this idea, but what about giving priority, or should i say, slightly better odds for residents of a particular management unit.

i.e. if you live in region 7, you have better odds of getting a draw for region 7.

nothing more frustrating than to live with all the moose, all year long, but have half the population of the lower mainland coming up to shoot your moose because they all get draws and the local residents don't!

Just a thought.

alright, kill me!:lol:

[TRACKnTRAIL]

A few years ago, the answer to "why don't we have a points based system liek Alberta" is....

We can't.

Some hunts the odds are so high that if you started applying when you were 18 you MAY get a tag by the time you retire.8-)

But I'll ask...8-)


To me this makes no sense. Alberta has some draws with very high odds. At least with a points based system like Alberta you would be sure to get the draw before a person who already had it and is just putting in to try and make sure a hunter doesn't. With the current system I have putting in for moose in 3-18 for 15 years and haven't been drawn, but a guy I know has had it 3 times and never got a moose.

[CanAm500]

I also want to vote for an on-line system and an earlier draw date.


Same here.

[willyqbc]

i'll echo the others and vote for earlier draws and online applications as well as online reporting. A ton more people would fill out harvest questionaires if they were available to do online. And if they are available to do online somewhere then they need to advertise the fact better

Chris

[wetcoasthunter]

How did we go from "the animals are for the residents of BC" to "the animals are for the residents of whichever town is closest". What a load of horse s**t.

[GoatGuy]

To me this makes no sense. Alberta has some draws with very high odds. At least with a points based system like Alberta you would be sure to get the draw before a person who already had it and is just putting in to try and make sure a hunter doesn't. With the current system I have putting in for moose in 3-18 for 15 years and haven't been drawn, but a guy I know has had it 3 times and never got a moose.

Their high odds stuff is LEH no different than ours (Goats and Grizz when they had 'em)

The other problem with BC is the annual variability in game populations.

You could be putting in for an elk draw that's 5:1 and the year you're gonna go to 5 there's a massive winter kill. Your odds just went up to 20:1, doesn't sound all that great if your body is getting tired.

For some of our species a priority system would work but the high odds stuff just isn't practical.

[wetcoasthunter]

i'll echo the others and vote for earlier draws and online applications as well as online reporting. A ton more people would fill out harvest questionaires if they were available to do online. And if they are available to do online somewhere then they need to advertise the fact better

Chris

I will vote for that as well, especially the earlier draws

[GoatGuy]

Horshur, the new allocation policy is set up so that residents achieve their AAH. This means all barriers are examined and rectified. This may mean more LEH authorizations, more access, longer seasons, different seasons or going to a GOS if need be. Remember the only issue is on LEH or animals that are on quota.

So far as antlerless draws go we'll be guaranteed 98% of them, so that ain't such a big deal!8)

[GoatGuy]

Earlier draw dates (same time as g/os get their quota) and electronic licensing are also in the works.

[Tinney]

Chalk up another vote for an earlier draw...and MAYBE a digital system...let's not forget the hordes of hunters like most in my family who don't use the internet for much more than email...

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Earlier draws like the trial early Spatzizi sheep draw. It's hard to book a flight or finalize plans when you find out 3 weeks before the starting date of your hunt.

SSS

[BCrams]

I am for the earlier LEH draw and a phased in electronic entry system so that those who don't use the computer much can still obtain cards from their sporting goods store. I vote for a February 15-30th deadline with results by April 1st.

[Elkhound]

Okay people, let's keep the thread about LEH questions. There are good and bad hunters everywhere. For every horror story someone has, the other side has one too. Nobody will win this one. Now Gatehouse has to wade through 2 pages of junk so he can find and ask questions.

Alright, thread is edited and all relevant info has been left.

Next question please

[Gateholio]

Thanks Elkhound..

This thread is Q&A ONLY.

If you want to discuss how locals should get priority or anything else, start another thread and bicker there...:twisted:

Further posts that are not of the Q&A type will get deleted without warning.8)

[Gateholio]

1. Why can't the LEH draws be done earlier, so there is more time to
plan,
especially for trips with acess issues.


2. Why don't we have a points based system, liek Alberta/many states do?

3. Can we phase in a computer/digital system rather than use the cards?
Once a
hunter establishes an "account" his information will always be correct,
so
there woudl be less itme wasted on correcting cards, as well as be
efficient in
other ways.

4.Statistics for hunter effort and success are reported by species and
Management unit, including all hunts by resis and non-resis. The same
info is
not available for a specific LEH hunt.
Is it possible to have a report available, containing actual permit
numbers
issued, Hunter numbers, Hunter effort in days, and success rate ?

[Gateholio]

1. We are aware that hunters would like the draws earlier and we do our
best. The problem lies in two main areas.

First, we need to assess the previous hunting season before we can set
new seasons, including LEH seasons. We need to know what the previous
year's harvest was before we determine the number of authorizations we
can give out in the next year's LEH draw. That is why it says
'Tentative Number of Authorizations Available' in the LEH synopsis. We
have not finished analyzing the previous year's harvest at the time of
publication, so that allows us to change numbers after publication of
the synopsis. Analysis of harvest is primarily done through hunter
surveys, compulsory inspection, compulsory reporting and guide
declaration reports. These all take time. Some LEH hunts do not end
until the end of February, so our window of time is tight.

Second, after all the analysis mentioned above is complete, the LEH
regulations must be passed by cabinet. Generally, cabinet only sits
once per week, so approval must wait for a sitting. If they reject the
regulations for some reason (they usually don't), we have to fix
whatever they didn't like and wait for another sitting.

However, the main problem is simply getting the previous year's analysis
done.


2. This is probably the single biggest question I get asked. Here is
the answer:

WHY BC DOES NOT USE A POINT PREFERENCE SYSTEM FOR ALLOCATING L.E. HUNTS

Point preference systems and pool systems (which are very similar) are
used in a number of North American jurisdictions. Alberta uses a
system in which points are accumulated each time an individual applies
unsuccessfully. Draws are preferentially given to those with the most
points first; the second most points second, and so on. When the system
reaches a point level where there are more applicants than remaining
available licences, the available licences are randomly assigned at that
point level. Upon being drawn, an applicant's points are deleted and
they start accumulating from zero again.

In 2005, Alberta had 213,749 applications for 71,950 available licences,
with overall average odds of 2.97 to 1. With such odds, on average,
applicants would be drawn roughly every 3 years even in a completely
random system. In B.C.'s 2005 draw, we received 151,972 applications for
26,476 available authorizations for overall average odds of 5.74 to 1,
nearly twice the average odds in Alberta.

If you examine Alberta's hunts in detail, you find that some of their
hunts are very easy to get, with many hunts in their WMU's actually
going undersubscribed. Eleven of their twenty-three categories have a
20% or better overall success rate (ie, odds of 5 to 1 or better),
encompassing 168,613 of their total 213,749 applications (79%). For
these hunts, their system will work very nicely, with people getting
drawn once every 5 years or better. However, with their high odds hunts,
it's a different story. If you want to hunt sheep in Alberta, you will
wait many years to reach the highest point level. In fact, some of
Alberta's sheep and goat hunts are not on a priority system because they
recognize that the demand is so high that nobody would get to hunt until
they reached extreme age. Fortunately, relatively few of Alberta's LEH
opportunities have such high demand, so overall their system meets their
needs.

In B.C. we are not so fortunate. In the 2005 draw, 286 of our 951 LEH
hunts had odds of 10 to 1 or higher, 161 hunts had odds of 20 to 1 or
higher and in 120 cases, the odds were 30 to 1 or higher. In some cases,
they were as high as 600 to 1. In fact, only 465 (about half) of our
hunts had odds of 5 to one or better. These 465 hunts represented only
39,834 applications out of a total of 151,972, therefore, only 26% or
our total applications were for hunts with odds of 5 to 1 or better. In
Alberta, about 80% of applicants are drawn after 3 attempts. In B.C.,
only 13% (19,751) of applicants faced odds of 3 to 1 or better in the
2005 draw, so no such turnover is possible here. Carrying the analysis
further, 41% (62,584) of our applications were for hunts with odds
greater than 10 to 1, 28% (42,992) of our applications were for hunts
with odds greater than 20 to 1 and 24% (36,690 ) of our applications
were for hunts with odds greater than 30 to 1. What this all means is
that if we go to a priority system, nearly half of our applicants can
expect to wait at least a decade, if not many times that, before they
will have any chance of being drawn. In a very few years, for many
hunts, the priority list will be so long that no new person taking up
hunting will have an opportunity to hunt prior to advanced age. Can you
imagine a teenager paying money annually to enter a system that might
provide them with a chance to hunt when they're 65 years old? Having
examined our odds situation, we believe that asking hunters to pay for
so many years before they have any chance of being drawn would be
fraudulent. Indeed, in the early 1980's, Montana scrapped their priority
system for elk because they found that nobody under a certain age would
draw a licence in their lifetime.

One suggestion we have considered relates to periods of ineligibility.
For example, we could decide that once a person has drawn a particular
species, they are not allowed to apply for some period of time.
Unfortunately, for many hunts, even once in a lifetime opportunities
don't help much. Using bison as an example, up to 2006, 38,153 people
have applied for bison in all of the draws that have ever been offered,
but only 1,454 have ever been drawn. If those 1,454 individuals were
barred from ever applying again, that would still leave 36,699 people
applying for 79 licences in the 2006 draw... not much of an improvement.
Additionally, periods of ineligibility have been offered to the BC
Wildlife Federation, but disagreement around the length of such periods
is always intense.

THE BC APPROACH

In British Columbia, we have developed a system we call 'enhanced odds'.
Rather than reward unsuccessful applicants, we reduce the chances of
previously successful applicants. All applicants that are drawn have
their chances reduced by 50% in the following year. In the case of
successful applicants for moose and Roosevelt elk, their chances are
reduced by 66% for the following three draws. This is done for all
species except deer, and the method was developed with the approval of
the BC Wildlife Federation.

The beauty of this system is that it does not discriminate against first
time applicants and it self-adjusts according to demand. If very few
people apply for a given hunt, then the system will automatically adjust
the odds reduction to less than 50% (or less than 66% for moose and
Roosevelt elk). This does not happen very often, but there are always a
few hunts that have low subscription, so there is no point in denying
opportunity to any applicant. This system does not eliminate repeat
success, but it keeps it at a low level.

The two main concerns with point systems are the length of turn-over
time for high odds hunts and the potential for these turn-over times to
discourage hunter recruitment. That being said, introducing a point
system for the compulsory inspection species (caribou, goats, grizzlies
and sheep) may be feasible if hunters want it. These are not entry
level species, so lengthy wait times would not significantly discourage
hunter recruitment.


3. Yes, we plan to replace the card application system soon. Nobody
wants this to happen more than I do. Did you ever open 155,000 pieces
of mail in three weeks?! If all goes according to plan, this (2007)
will be the last year that people will apply for LEH hunts with the
traditional post card applications. We are currently developing an
electronic licensing system for both angling and hunting licences. Part
of that system will be a new means of applying for LEH hunts. Our
current intention is for people to be able to apply either over the
internet or by phone (phone applications are used in Alberta). I can't
promise that everything will go well enough for us to start this in
2008, but that is what we are working towards.

4. There are a few statistical reports available on the Fish & Wildlife
Branch web site, but they are several years old and they do not provide
the kind of detail you are requesting. However, we do produce precisely
what you describe, we just haven't published it. These statistics are
produced annually as part of the analysis I mentioned above in answer to
your first question. We are currently considering revision of our web
site and we may provide this information later this year.

[boxhitch]

Good answwers, thanks.

For the higher odds-against hunts, could the Enhanced Odd system be further enhanced, by taking a deeper/longer bite, say to 80% then escalating each year to 60,40,20 ? Would this help eliminate repeat winners ?

[Sitkaspruce]

Thanks Gatehouse and everyone involved.

Sheds some light on the subject.

[WoodOx]

Sweet thanks a lot. Never thoroughly thought about the points system that way - in the same breath, Ive neer heard of a alberta drawn taking longer than 8 years to get? Mabye im naive, as i havent looked that deep either.

[Elkhound]

Sweet thanks a lot. Never thoroughly thought about the points system that way - in the same breath, Ive neer heard of a alberta drawn taking longer than 8 years to get? Mabye im naive, as i havent looked that deep either.
While I appreciate his response my buddy in Alberta who lived and hunted in BC most of his life disagrees

Quote-
His answers for not going with a points system is hooey. If hunters begin to see that they WILL NOT get drawn, not MIGHT not get drawn, then they will put in their effort elsewhere. The highest wait time in AB is 12 years. Mtn Goat and some sheep areas are no preference odds, and sure enough, you get 100's of people putting in for it, cause there is a CHANCE of getting drawn.

The other issue is that AB has many more hunts on LEH to ensure proper mgmt of numbers. BC is still a wide open shooting gallery, mulies are open for almost 4 months in some areas for **** sake. Therefore, with more LEH hunts and fewer wide open seasons, demand per hunt would go down (greater supply). You will see what proper wildlife mgmt can do when you get here in the fall.

If BC adopted the priority system within 5 to 10 years the odds
situation would totally change.

Also, the reason they have so much population analysis to work out is partly due to the open season situation. With no compulsory reporting, hunter harvest needs to be guessed at.

Feel free to forward my response.

While I realise that it's not really a question Gates I would find it interesting to know what he would say to this thinking as my buddy and I have debated this issue for years

[Gateholio]

Re phrase it as a respectful question, and I'll submit it.

8-)

[SUAFOYT]

OK- here's an issue where we as hunters must get involved. The answer re an electronic system will only get addressed if the funding is there. The funding for such a system is at the whims of the politicians as opposed to the bureaucrats. If the funding were, as Mr LEH seems to indicate, forthcoming, if some other, more "sexy" issue might arise, then you can bet that that funding could be put on the back burner for another time. It is up to us that partake in this sport/pastime to drop a line to our MLA and ask why the hunting/fishing license can't be electronic as well as the LEH draw. Mr. LEH has indicated to me in the past that when Ministry officials as well as their masters get consistent mail about a topic, that they must react, one way or another. I'm thinking that's how the antis got the GBear moratorium way back when. I'm sending mine off.

[Steeleco]

Once the online system of licencing and such is working, could it not be possible to log on and report a recent kill? (tag cutting) This way it would be like "real time" game counting. This may facilitate a means to have the LEH draws sooner??

Thanks Gents, for the work and answers so far.

[David Heitsman]

Gatehouse,
I appreciate the persons thoughtful response and allthough I'm not sure who the author is, it quite closely echoes the views of some of the Ministry staff that I visit with each year at the Premier's Tag meetings for the auctioned sheep and elk tags. During breaks in our meetings the discussion frequently goes to LEH's and the questions are allways similar to what is posted here.

[Shade Tree]

Another issue which needs some attention is the fact that over one third of the grizzly LEH'S that are issued bear tags are not bought (2000 and 2001 data from gov't website).I am sure some tags go to the antis, but many tags go to hunters who were never serious in the first place. As a result, they're sitting on the tag which they can't even be bothered to buy, or make an attempt to hunt, and I get to sit at home another spring, when I would truly love to be out hunting a grizzly. It would make sense with an electronic internet system that if you draw a grizzly LEH you automatically buy the tag as well, by visa, paypal or whatever. This would stop people who were not serious about hunting bears from just willy nilly putting in.
I am told that this one third is figured into the equation, however, by removing these individuals who were not serious about bear hunting in the first place would allow the bio's to get a better consensus and understanding of the bear population because it would be removing the unknown variable.
I am not talking about the guy who has just had a baby or lost his job, I'm talking about the guy who was never really planning to go hunt at all, but put in on a whim because he only had five bucks to lose. If it cost $85 right off the bat many of these people would think twice about putting in and at least the gov't would get another $85 out of each tag issued to the antis.

[horshur]

Horshur, the new allocation policy is set up so that residents achieve their AAH. This means all barriers are examined and rectified. This may mean more LEH authorizations, more access, longer seasons, different seasons or going to a GOS if need be. Remember the only issue is on LEH or animals that are on quota.

So far as antlerless draws go we'll be guaranteed 98% of them, so that ain't such a big deal!8)

I'm unsure what AAH stands for:confused: ----Thanks for reply inspite of my post being removed:roll:

[Gateholio]

Annual allowable harvest...

This is a Q&A thread, as explained int he first post. If you want to debate wiht others about LEH and why locals should get prefferential treatment, start another thread and your posts will stay put.

If you want to ask a question about any LEH topic, I will be happy to forward it. :)

[Gateholio]

Another issue which needs some attention is the fact that over one third of the grizzly LEH'S that are issued bear tags are not bought (2000 and 2001 data from gov't website).I am sure some tags go to the antis, but many tags go to hunters who were never serious in the first place. As a result, they're sitting on the tag which they can't even be bothered to buy, or make an attempt to hunt, and I get to sit at home another spring, when I would truly love to be out hunting a grizzly. It would make sense with an electronic internet system that if you draw a grizzly LEH you automatically buy the tag as well, by visa, paypal or whatever. This would stop people who were not serious about hunting bears from just willy nilly putting in.
I am told that this one third is figured into the equation, however, by removing these individuals who were not serious about bear hunting in the first place would allow the bio's to get a better consensus and understanding of the bear population because it would be removing the unknown variable.
I am not talking about the guy who has just had a baby or lost his job, I'm talking about the guy who was never really planning to go hunt at all, but put in on a whim because he only had five bucks to lose. If it cost $85 right off the bat many of these people would think twice about putting in and at least the gov't would get another $85 out of each tag issued to the antis.


So, could we phrase the question like:

Is there a way to ensure that the majority of peopel that apply fo rhigher odds LEH tags intend to use it, by requiring them to purchase a tag within a reasonable amount of time prior ot the hunt?

[steel_ram]

It is unfare how some people do get drawn more than others for high odds hunts and though I doubt it, I can see how some could believe the system is corrupt. The info on the cards we fill out by hand I presume is entered into the computer manually which could be a fault.

I believe that in this age of computer programs, that a system that guarantee's that if you enter a draw that has 5:1 odds, you would get a draw in 5 years or less instead of having a number dropped into the same bucket as last years winners. The present enhanced odds system could be way better.

It is a weird anomoly that in any game, some numbers get drawn more than others.

[wetcoasthunter]

Stupid question, but when do the LEH booklets, or whatever you want to call them, come out?

[Mr. Dean]

I put this on another thread and realized that it should go here.

The system doesn't work for me. I'll put in for a 'meat' draw in the region that I hunt Deer, but that's it. Because of the timelines of the draws, I'm forced into sticking w/ GOS. I need a minimum of six months notice to plan for something that I don't know if I'll even get. 8 or 9 would be better...

I'd be more willing to enter more if I could somehow transfer the tag to another hunter of my choice (friend, family member...), if I couldn't participate. At least that way the draw would still be utilized and I just might see something from it (meet, horn...). If it's MY tag, why can't I do what I want w/ it?
My problem is timelines. I would enter more/other hunts, if I had other options of how the tag could be used and still benifit from the 'time served' of being drawn,,,, instead of just burning it.

[Gateholio]

1.Is there a way to ensure that the majority of peopel that apply fo rhigher
odds LEH tags intend to use it, by requiring them to purchase a tag within a
reasonable amount of time prior ot the hunt?

2. a) Is there a way to make any LEH tag transferable,in case I am not able to
use it due to time constraints, illness, unexpected problems etc?

b) If there was such a system, and I draw the tag and can't go, can I give it
to my brother/friend/etc?

3.when do the LEH booklets, or whatever you want to call them, come out?

4.For the higher odds-against hunts, could the Enhanced Odd system be further
enhanced, by taking a deeper/longer bite, say to 80% then escalating each year
to 60,40,20 ? Would this help eliminate repeat winners ?

5. Not really a question, but someone forwarded me this. It's rather less
respectful than I woudl prefer, but I hear you have thick skin:

While I appreciate his response my buddy in Alberta who lived and hunted in BC
most of his life disagrees

Quote-
His answers for not going with a points system is hooey. If hunters begin to
see that they WILL NOT get drawn, not MIGHT not get drawn, then they will put
in their effort elsewhere. The highest wait time in AB is 12 years. Mtn Goat
and some sheep areas are no preference odds, and sure enough, you get 100's of
people putting in for it, cause there is a CHANCE of getting drawn.

The other issue is that AB has many more hunts on LEH to ensure proper mgmt of
numbers. BC is still a wide open shooting gallery, mulies are open for almost 4
months in some areas for **** sake. Therefore, with more LEH hunts and fewer
wide open seasons, demand per hunt would go down (greater supply). You will see
what proper wildlife mgmt can do when you get here in the fall.

If BC adopted the priority system within 5 to 10 years the odds
situation would totally change.

Also, the reason they have so much population analysis to work out is partly
due to the open season situation. With no compulsory reporting, hunter harvest
needs to be guessed at.

Feel free to forward my response.

[Mr. Dean]

Thankx 'House.

[Gateholio]

More questions...And one guy disputing your answers...

1.Is there a way to ensure that the majority of people that apply for
higher odds LEH tags intend to use it, by requiring them to purchase a
tag within a reasonable amount of time prior to the hunt?

A. We could, but it would be difficult and of questionable value. At
the moment, we have no reliable way of knowing when or if a person has
purchased a licence. Licence sales are recorded, but there can be a lag
time of two months or more before we have the information in a data
base. We are currently building an electronic licensing system that
will provide us with almost immediate knowledge of licences sales, but
it won't be in place for two years.

Even if we did this, it would probably mean that we gave out fewer LEH
opportunities. Since we know that there will always be some winners
that don't go hunting for whatever reason, we allow for that in the
number of authorizations we give out. If participation went up by us
'forcing' people to buy a licence, then harvest would probably go up too
and we'd therefore have to give out fewer hunting opportunities.

2. a) Is there a way to make any LEH tag transferable, in case I am not
able to use it due to time constraints, illness, unexpected problems
etc?

A. This could be done, and is one of many things that are currently
being considered. The Fish and Wildlife Branch is currently finishing a
Hunter Recruitment and Retention Strategy that outlines many ideas
designed to provide greater hunting opportunities.

b) If there was such a system, and I draw the tag and can't go, can I
give it to my brother/friend/etc?

A. Possibly. No promises here, but as mentioned above, many suggestions
for increasing and improving hunting opportunities are being considered.

3.when do the LEH booklets, or whatever you want to call them, come out?

A. The LEH Regulations Synopsis usually comes out around the first two
weeks of May.

4.For the higher odds-against hunts, could the Enhanced Odd system be
further enhanced, by taking a deeper/longer bite, say to 80% then
escalating each year to 60,40,20 ? Would this help eliminate repeat
winners ?

A. It could, but we would have to consult with hunting groups to try to
find some consensus. We have a committee that regularly meets to
discuss regulation changes and it includes members of the BC Wildlife
Federation, who represent hunters. A change such as this would have to
be presented to them and they would probably want to consult all of
their club members before providing us with a recommendation. This in
fact is what we did a few years ago when the odds were put to 66% and
spread over three years for moose and Roosevelt elk. Also, if you
examine the actual affect of ANY kind of odds-altering, it really
doesn't make much difference. Remember, if the odds are 100 to 1 and
you place a lifetime ban on everyone that was drawn, that only improves
the odds next time to 99 to 1, and only then if nobody new applies.

5. Not really a question, but someone forwarded me this. It's rather
less respectful than I would prefer, but I hear you have thick skin:

While I appreciate his response my buddy in Alberta who lived and hunted
in BC most of his life disagrees

Quote-
His answers for not going with a points system is hooey. If hunters
begin to see that they WILL NOT get drawn, not MIGHT not get drawn, then
they will put in their effort elsewhere. The highest wait time in AB is
12 years. Mtn Goat and some sheep areas are no preference odds, and
sure enough, you get 100's of people putting in for it, cause there is a
CHANCE of getting drawn.

The other issue is that AB has many more hunts on LEH to ensure proper
mgmt of numbers. BC is still a wide open shooting gallery, mulies are
open for almost 4 months in some areas for **** sake. Therefore, with
more LEH hunts and fewer wide open seasons, demand per hunt would go
down (greater supply). You will see what proper wildlife mgmt can do
when you get here in the fall.

If BC adopted the priority system within 5 to 10 years the odds
situation would totally change.

Also, the reason they have so much population analysis to work out is
partly due to the open season situation. With no compulsory reporting,
hunter harvest needs to be guessed at.

Feel free to forward my response.

A. At this point, the discussion becomes somewhat philosophical. I
am not going to try to convince anyone that our system is better or
worse than Alberta's because I am well aware that in general, people
will simply believe whatever they want to believe. That being said, I
will point out a few specifics. In BC, approximately 12,000 people
apply for about 245 Roosevelt elk hunts each year. This means the
average odds for these hunts are about 50 to 1. There simply is no way
to provide all of those people with an opportunity to hunt, no matter
what system you use. There are plenty of open seasons for Rocky
Mountain elk (not Roosevelts), so people can still elk hunt even if they
don't get drawn, but nevertheless, the LEH demand is very high.

Even with lower odds hunts, there is no guarantee that a point system
(like Alberta's) will work - let me provide an example. In the early
1990's, we used to issue nearly 10,000 LEH hunts each year for elk in
the Kootenays. About 30,000 people would apply for them, which means
that the average odds were about 3 to 1. Over the 1990's, the number of
hunts was greatly cut back for conservation reasons and by 1999, we were
only giving out 131 LEH hunts each year for elk in the Kootenays. If we
had had a point system, we would have had 20,000 (or more) people in the
early 1990's thinking they were going to get to hunt in the next 2 or 3
years. However, because we greatly reduced the number of LEH hunts we
were giving out, this would not have happened. We would have had
thousands of people with points, all thinking they were going to hunt
elk soon, and then they would have found out that they were going to
have to wait for many years to get an opportunity. Can you imagine the
outcry that would have gone up over that? All kinds of people would
have felt conspired against! Furthermore, anybody coming into the
system for the first time would see all of these thousands of people
ahead of them and realize that they were going to have to wait for
middle age to hunt elk under LEH. The one saving grace here is that
there are still open seasons for elk in many areas.

The question seems to indicate that we should have more LEH hunts and
fewer open seasons. Again, this is philosophical, but most hunters in
BC seem to feel the other way, preferring open seasons to LEH. In BC,
LEH was introduced as a 'fall back' option to allow hunting to continue
in cases where it needed to be closely controlled, rather than shutting
it down altogether. It has never been seen as the ideal way to manage
wildlife populations.

It is true that Alberta has a great abundance of some game animals,
especially white-tailed deer. While I'm sure the Albertans are
excellent wildlife managers, the fact that the southern half of their
province is covered in wheat fields is probably a major contributing
factor to the abundance of some game, probably to the chagrin of the
wheat farmers. Despite the fact that BC can't match Alberta's wheat
fields, there are still very abundant wildlife populations in many parts
of the province that are quite capable of sustaining open season
hunting.

Finally, the question suggests that we should go to compulsory reporting
instead of surveys to assess the annual hunting harvest. We do have
compulsory inspection for caribou, cougar, mountain goats, mountain
sheep and grizzly bears, as well as a few other species in particular
regions, but this only amounts to a couple of thousand animals. They
are inspected by about 30 contractors. If we were to put all species on
compulsory inspection, we would have to hire hundreds of additional
contractors to inspect them at a colossal price and at great
inconvenience to hunters. For the more numerous species (deer, moose,
elk, etc.), we simply don't need data that is that accurate. The
surveys provide very good information at a lower price and without
expecting a great deal of effort from hunters.

Even if we were to make reporting compulsory in the sense that all
hunters had to complete a form, fill out a web site questionnaire or
some other way of reporting that didn't involve an inspector, it would
probably make the situation worse, not better. It is a fundamental
tenet of survey science that people are much more likely to provide
truthful information if it is voluntary than if you try to force it out
of them. Demanding compliance tends to stir up defiance, and there is
no way to check the validity of the information people provide. It
would still take months for all hunters to get around to providing the
information and it would still have to be edited, which is a time
consuming operation

[Mr. Dean]

2. a) Is there a way to make any LEH tag transferable, in case I am not
able to use it due to time constraints, illness, unexpected problems
etc?

A. This could be done, and is one of many things that are currently
being considered. The Fish and Wildlife Branch is currently finishing a
Hunter Recruitment and Retention Strategy that outlines many ideas
designed to provide greater hunting opportunities.

b) If there was such a system, and I draw the tag and can't go, can I
give it to my brother/friend/etc?

A. Possibly. No promises here, but as mentioned above, many suggestions
for increasing and improving hunting opportunities are being considered.

If something like this could be put into effect, I predict that participation would go up BIG TIME!

Thanks for being the middle man, Gates.

[brno375]

If something like this could be put into effect, I predict that participation would go up BIG TIME!

You bet it would, especially for the high odds draws. "Hey, want to buy my Kamloops Lake draw?", or "Even though grandpa can't get out anymore, I'll still put him in because I can always go." At this point, you may as well allow me to buy as many applications for a species as I want.

I would rather see the tag redrawn if a successful applicant can not utilize it or have a list of hunters who are willing to go "stand by".

[SUAFOYT]

Excellent questions and to my mind, good responses. Keep them coming. I want Mr. LEH to earn his exorbitant salary. Just kidding. He and I will have a lot to hash over this year over a lot of wobbly pops. I won't out him, but when he retires, we had better hope that the Ministry gets someone in there that's a hunter like he is, and not just a pie chart type.

[brno375]

Is it possible to make it manditory to buy a licence before being able to apply for a LEH?

Is it possible that the successful applicant automatically be billed the cost of the tag?

Since the g/o's have been given their 5 year quota already, why is the resident not given the same courtesy (ie early draw)? If all the harvest questionaires have not been returned, and all the data has not been compiled, how is it that the g/o's get their numbers before resident's do? Why five years and not yearly like residents?

Is it possible that there be a list of hunters who would be willing to go hunt a specific species "stand by" if successful LEH applicants are not able to go? Would this greatly affect the resident's AAH?

Why are parks like the Spatsizi and Tatshenshini on LEH? Is there any way to change these areas to GOS if numbers allow?

[srupp]

some suggestions..I like the early application and early results..say results by March 31..makes booking holidays easier.

-I do not like transferring 0f tags leaves it open to $$$$$ and a whole raft of associated shinnanigans....

-once you have your LEH you have 30 days to PURCHASE the appropriate tag...computer would the REALLOCATE any tags that licenses where not purchased OR hunters informed Wildlife branch they would NOT be using that tag..

-Harvest questionair is MANDATORY...and penalties for "untruthfull answers" If you DID NOT go on the hunt you drew a tag for you are ineligable for next years draw...use it or lose it ! I know guys who didnt go on moose , GRIZZLY AND buffalo last year !!!!!

MAXIMUM OF 2 successful LEHS per hunter per season UNTILL second draw....and unused tags could be given out...

ALL animals that you drew a LEH on now put you at 25% diminished odds for next year.

I know of close to 25 LEH permits last year that the winners never even went on !!!And others ..like WILL that are still after the coveted "meek mild mannered meadow mouse tag" :roll:


My rant....

Steven Rupp

[MattB]

Personally, i think we should go to a preference point system. The method we use now is BS. I have been putting in for moose tags since i was 13 and i still have yet to draw a tag. While, on the other hand one of my buddies back home has drawn moose tags 3 years in a row :confused: ....sounds to me like the reduced odds sure ain't reducing the odds ;)

[ohno]

If you DID NOT go on the hunt you drew a tag for you are ineligable for next years draw...use it or lose it !

This would also have the advantage of the reducing the effects of the Bunny Huggers putting in LEH with NO intention of harvesting said animal.

O.

[srupp]

Matt it does get frustrating.....perhaps put in for less desireable hunts ?less access?harder access?

Steven

[bayou]

I agree with albertas point sysytem or what about having to pay up front like the states

[Gateholio]

I htink most of these questions have already been answered, guys...

Take a look back on my posts and see if there is some I have missed, then post them here. Tanks:lol:

[CanuckShooter]

LEH questions

Can you tell us:

How recent is the data used to determine LEH allocation??

What data is used...and is it weighted??

[Gateholio]

Canuckshooter

Define "weighted" in this context, and I will put forth the question.

[CanuckShooter]

'weighted' means some forms of data are given more credence than others and they are applied using a formula.

[boxhitch]

My guess? Of course they are weighted.

[KRACKINOSAVICH]

Is there any benefit of putting down that you have metis status in your draws?

[Rainwater]

Sure it will help alot to put Metis on there, write it right accross the LEH card in big black felt letters.

[Gateholio]

Sure it will help alot to put Metis on there, write it right accross the LEH card in big black felt letters.

Yes, I contacted him about this and Rainwater is correct. Use a Jiffy brand black marker if you can find one, apparently thier machine can "see" it better.

[Wildman]

How about this question; If I choose antlerless elk one year and I were to get a leh draw, would that impact my odds in winning a leh in the same MU and zone for a bull the following year?

[Wildman]

How about this question; If I choose antlerless elk one year and I were to get a leh draw, would that impact my odds in winning a leh in the same MU and zone for a bull the following year?

Here is the response that I received.

Dear Vadim,
Unfortunately yes your odds would be impacted, it it doesn't matter about the sex of the animal, only the species. You won't be impacted on other species but you will if you apply for a antlerless elk one year and a bull the next.
How much you get impacted for elk depends on where you are applying. For elk in regions 1 and 2 you would have a 66% reduction for the following 3 years after receiving an elk. For elk in all other regions you would receive a 50% reduction for the following year only.
I hope this answers your question, if you have any others feel free to email me back.
Thanks,
Evan

[hunter1947]

How about this question; If I choose antlerless elk one year and I were to get a leh draw, would that impact my odds in winning a leh in the same MU and zone for a bull the following year? Yes it would. :frown: hunter47.

[pupper]

I was wondering... since I am putting multiple applications for different species in the LEH draw this year, If I get drawn for say grizzly in reg 7-38 will that effect my odds for moose in 7-38 or moose in general?

basically I am wondering if one succesful species application is drawn for any area will that effect my odds on other applications?

[Gateholio]

No., differe tspecies don't affect you

[Krico]

In regards to reduced odds, are they for the following calendar year or the next year I actually apply? For example I drew a bull tag in 2006, I don't apply in 2007. Are my odds reduced the 50% when I apply again in 2008, or does the 50% reduction only apply in 2007? Should I save my money this year since I won't have much time to hunt moose, or send in the $6 card to get the reduced odds year out of the way?

[Buck]

My question is i have an unused leh application card from last year can i use it this year?

[Gateholio]

My question is i have an unused leh application card from last year can i use it this year?

Yes, iv've done it

[wetcoastwillie]

earlier draws would be nice...
Also any unused tags should be re-drawn if time permitted.
Let's say i got a tag and couldn't go, i could either transfer the tag or return it to be re-drawn?! Just an idea.

That's got my vote!

[pupper]

when applying for a shared hunt for moose, do you fill in the group section on the bottom of the card?

it says that all group entries for moose will be put in as shared hunts. But how do you let them know you are in a shared hunt group if you dont fill in the group section?

also, if you put in a shared hunt for moose with younger hunters(15yrs) or hunters who just got their hunting number, does that lower your chances at all?

Justin

[B]

Hi everyone, looking for a little help for a hunter in a wheelchair, I was looking to apply in the Merritt area, 3-12 a/b or 3-19 a/b and was wondering if anybody knew of any good access as I would have to hunt from a blind or from a truck. Any advice would help

[kishman]

when applying for a shared hunt for moose, do you fill in the group section on the bottom of the card?

it says that all group entries for moose will be put in as shared hunts. But how do you let them know you are in a shared hunt group if you dont fill in the group section?


Justin


Our group did fill out the group or shared info and we wrote "Shared" in the bottom left corner on the front of the envelope as per the instructions on pg.3 of LEH synopsis. The instructions you need to read are on pg.2 under "Group Hunt & Shared Hunt Applicants" and on pg.3 "For Persons Applying for a Group or Shared Hunt." Good luck in the draw Justin8).

kishman

[boxhitch]

-Group hunts are not available for G Bear.
-Each year, permit recipients have difficulty finding a partner to accompany and share expenses, when they do not have an equal chance to take an animal.
-No one should hunt G bears alone.
?? What is the rational for not having group hunts available, when clearly this would increase participation ?

[Mr. Maverick]

I have a bull mosse draw for area 5-15d Wells, Barkerville any info would be greatly appreciated.

[wsm]

i was drawn for whitetail, mulie, and shared moose. today i got my shared moose by it's self, this is the first shared moose i've ever gotten. does it normaly come by it's self?

[Fisher-Dude]

Hi everyone, looking for a little help for a hunter in a wheelchair, I was looking to apply in the Merritt area, 3-12 a/b or 3-19 a/b and was wondering if anybody knew of any good access as I would have to hunt from a blind or from a truck. Any advice would help

I just saw your post. Did you get drawn for 3-12A? If so, PM me and I could point you to some likely spots that would enable you to get around. Some areas have lots of roads from the pine beetle logging.

[BigfishCanada]

If there are 4 people in your shared moose hunt, how many moose are you allowed? 1?

[lip_ripper00]

If there are 4 people in your shared moose hunt, how many moose are you allowed? 1?

if theirs 4 people in a group hunt, you can take 2 animals

[pupper]

did anyone get there letters yet?

I got mine in the mail. They only sent 1 of my authorizations. Is that strange?

[lip_ripper00]

i was drawn for whitetail, mulie, and shared moose. today i got my shared moose by it's self, this is the first shared moose i've ever gotten. does it normaly come by it's self?


yes they are sent out in hunt code nunmerical order. Moose about 4000, doe draws about 7000. Bc gov. has lot of money for stamps!:mrgreen:

[peterrum3]

2. a) Is there a way to make any LEH tag transferable, in case I am not
able to use it due to time constraints, illness, unexpected problems
etc?

A. This could be done, and is one of many things that are currently
being considered. The Fish and Wildlife Branch is currently finishing a
Hunter Recruitment and Retention Strategy that outlines many ideas
designed to provide greater hunting opportunities.


Can we get any further information about the Strategy such as what is being considered, what will be implemented and timelines.

[Mik]

Has anybody out there hunted the Jade/Boulder Rd, MU 6-19 ( East of Dease Lake)? Around the "Turnagain River" area and might be able to shed some light on it?
By the looks of it on the map, you can drive quite far into it( all the way into MU 7-52). Any info would be appreciated, Thanks.

[browningboy]

My question is:
Why don't I ever get an LEH, I apply each year and get the big ZERO!

So this is my LEH question.;)

[Blk Arrow]

My 13 year old son got a youth draw for a mule deer doe in region 5, which is good for zones 5-1, 5-2, 5-3, 5-13, 5-14 and 5-15. The bulk of the hunting I have done is Cache Creek, W. Kootenays, and Grand Forks areas. I have had good success for moose on draws in 5-13 but you could count on one hand the number of deer we saw in the areas hunted moose. Does anyone have any suggestions for a general area where he might harvest his first deer.

Thanks

[Scobo]

How about if out of 3 guys we get two moose draws. My buddies dad is pretty old so we really only need 1 moose draw between the three of us so could we put one on hold for the following year and give someone else the chance to get out the same year and have a crack at a moose. I know this is pretty stupid to most but it would be nice in our case.

[Fosey]

This is a excellent thread. Alberta is not the only other draw system. The questions I have are

1. why don't we go to a preference point system. everybody still has a chance to draw but you get extra preference points the longer you apply 2. Then why couldn't we purchase extra preference points for cash. If you really want to hunt in a area buy preference points.
3.why don't they update their maps so you can read them.

[mainland hunter]

[quote=Fosey;203995]2. Then why couldn't we purchase extra preference points for cash. If you really want to hunt in a area buy preference points.
quote]

Because there's alot of people that arent rich that would like a fair crack at hunting

[NaStY]

[quote=Fosey;203995]2. Then why couldn't we purchase extra preference points for cash. If you really want to hunt in a area buy preference points.
quote]

Because there's alot of people that arent rich that would like a fair crack at hunting


I totaly agree! its tough enough to afford a hunt let alone having to buy everything else ( liscence, fuel, vehicle repairs, wife, kids and on and on). Oh ya and brand new guns :mrgreen:

[LUCKY]

In regards to reduced odds, are they for the following calendar year or the next year I actually apply? For example I drew a bull tag in 2006, I don't apply in 2007. Are my odds reduced the 50% when I apply again in 2008, or does the 50% reduction only apply in 2007? Should I save my money this year since I won't have much time to hunt moose, or send in the $6 card to get the reduced odds year out of the way?


I did not see an answer to this one and had the same question. Do you need to apply each year to regain your odds or is just based on time?

Thanks,
Lucky

[Caveman]

In regards to reduced odds, are they for the following calendar year or the next year I actually apply? For example I drew a bull tag in 2006, I don't apply in 2007. Are my odds reduced the 50% when I apply again in 2008, or does the 50% reduction only apply in 2007? Should I save my money this year since I won't have much time to hunt moose, or send in the $6 card to get the reduced odds year out of the way?

I believe that you're odds are reduced the next time you put in even if you don't apply for a year or two. Throw you're 6 bucks in because I also know guys that seem to get drawn year after year regardless of odds.

[freeman6]

I have a Peace antlerless elk hunt draw and I heard that the Peace MOE was going to set up a service where you could find out who to ask for permission to hunt, (landowners, managers). Was this list ever set up? How do I get access to it? What sort of requirements must I fill to be eligible (liability insurance, number of references, etc)?

I have phoned the numbers listed for the Peace area CO offices and get nothing but a menu that doesn't fit what I am looking for. I don't think that I am the only one that would like this information. I thought I read about it on the MOE website, but I can't seem to find it now.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Bullmoose]

I have a Peace antlerless elk hunt draw and I heard that the Peace MOE was going to set up a service where you could find out who to ask for permission to hunt, (landowners, managers). Was this list ever set up? How do I get access to it? What sort of requirements must I fill to be eligible (liability insurance, number of references, etc)?

I have phoned the numbers listed for the Peace area CO offices and get nothing but a menu that doesn't fit what I am looking for. I don't think that I am the only one that would like this information. I thought I read about it on the MOE website, but I can't seem to find it now.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Go to their website, and email your request to the contact address, they'll email you the list, I just rec'd mine and there are over 20 names you can contact for LEH elk

[cwocarsten]

13 years ago I wrote to the LEH gods saying their system is flawed and should be adapted to mirror the draws in Alberta with the point system. I got a 3 page essay back about about the pros and cons and have not had a draw for moose or elk since then even when I apply for a low odds area. Coincidence.....HMMMM? Nah just bad LOTTO LEH draw luck.

[mungojeerie]

Anyone know the answer to this one...

If there are two or three of us in our party are the odds better to each apply separately or to apply as a group?

[MRBucks]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]How much you get impacted for elk depends on where you are applying. For elk in regions 1 and 2 you would have a 66% reduction for the following 3 years after receiving an elk.

That made me laugh..since I have had never rec'd a single LEH for elk in those regions in 25 years..:???:

[CanuckShooter]

I believe that you're odds are reduced the next time you put in even if you don't apply for a year or two. Throw you're 6 bucks in because I also know guys that seem to get drawn year after year regardless of odds.


Same here, don't worry about 'reduced odds', I know a lady that has drawn big bull 7-10 four out of five consecutive years...if your lucky, your lucky...and the reduced odds mean nothing.:mrgreen:

[Singleshotneeded]

:-D Get your kids involved in applying for LEH draws!

[notyalc]

When does the 2011/2012 leh synopsis come out?

[HUNTERTREV]

How do they decide an area should be LEH? is it because the area is over hunted or the area has a limited number of animals available to be hunted?

[jannypan]

Dont know if this is the right place to ask this but I was wondering, with it sounding more and more like we will not have access to the Nanaimo lakes area will there still be elk tags available there??

[Gateholio]

Some answers to questions about why BC used this type of LEH here.

[Glassman]

I still did not get my paper results of my LEH by mail. My 2 juniors did not either. I and 1 son did not get anything when we checked online, but the youngest son got moose and Elk. I want the positive results in paper in my possession before we take off for Moose on Sept. 11. If we get stopped I can't very well tell mr. CO that the paper never got to me but if he were to check the net he could see for himself. Do I go to the local conservation office or phone the ministry head office?

[stones]

Anyone know when the spring LEH draws come out online?

[bowhunterbruce]

i just talked to them yesterday and the best they could give me was,"by the end of febuary"

[hunter1947]

Clark how can I get picked for a Vancouver Island elk draw its been over 30 years sense I got picked ???? :confused: :-?..

[leadpillproductions]

Has anyone heard anything yet,
I called but no answer

[SUAFOYT]

Has anyone heard anything yet,
I called but no answer

Don't expect things to improve quickly. The fellow that was answering the questions on this sticky thread and who administered the draw process for a lot of years has retired. He was given a buyout, can't say how much but he is smiling. Management by the way so FD can stand down. He's now being brought back on an "as needed basis" to help out. I won't tell how much per hour he's getting but that plus his pension and the buyout would be nice for anyone.

He had told his masters for years that the draw system i.e. online method, among other things needed funding but it was always put on the back burner. More important things to do. I could name a few but the post might get deleted.

Suffice to say that in the current climate the LEH system will get no additional help from the current government any time soon. I'd like to be proven wrong but I doubt it.

[elcazador]

When do we buy the leh for the fall? Or when do we fill the papers with species etc? For the fall hunting season?

[CraigOC]

When do we buy the leh for the fall? Or when do we fill the papers with species etc? For the fall hunting season?


beginning of may i believe is when the leh synopsis comes out

[Moosehunter64]

Should be out in the next couple weeks.Last year they had to be in by May 20th.

[Slinky Pickle]

Last year it was rumoured that we would see on-line LEH applications this year. Has anyone heard whether this will happen

[SUAFOYT]

Last year it was rumoured that we would see on-line LEH applications this year. Has anyone heard whether this will happen

See post 122. I highly doubt it.

[Duckman]

Last year the LEH regs were online by now...anyone know when they are coming?

[Fisher-Dude]

From the guy who actually puts the regs together, as of a couple of weeks ago:

"The process for implementing regulation changes for the 2012-2014 cycle is still underway and we are expecting to brief the Minister on the package sometime in March. We are expecting to have the LEH synopsis online in early April, which is in line with timelines from past years, and the H&T synopsis to follow online sometime in mid to late April, which is still 8 to 10 weeks earlier than past years. Printing and distribution of hard copies is generally a three week process."

[Antwonmh]

When is the 2012 deadline for applying for LEH draws and is it online this year?

-A

[springpin]

Hey all,

Are the paper copy of the LEH regs out?

Thanks

[MuleyMadness]

No, the electronic isn't even out yet, and you can expect the printed to lag behind by at least a few days.

[springpin]

Thanks. Ya, I was wondering cause the online copy isn't out yet.

[Rob]

Got some trips planned?

[bassplayer]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/leh.html

[835]

Well your #1
i wonder how many more threads about this will show up!

[The Dude]

I'm guessing 4-7.
I'm gonna get my Rosie draw this year, I can FEEL it!

[bassplayer]

Well your #1
i wonder how many more threads about this will show up!
No kidding. When i was a member here two years ago, they kept popping up like an incurable weed lol.

[The Dude]

Rainy, Squamish, and indian Rivers each get ONE bull Elk.
The odds on THOSE draws are gonna be through the roof!

[835]

Rainy, Squamish, and indian Rivers each get ONE bull Elk.
The odds on THOSE draws are gonna be through the roof!

That was what i noticed right away, all the purple ink in the Rosie section. Not like id put in for reg 2. But i did see that where i want to put in went down like 20 points.

[BiG Boar]

Do the regs stay the same? They say 2010-2012, but I am not sure. Maybe yes?

[835]

I printed 12/13

[kyleklassen]

Well your #1
i wonder how many more threads about this will show up!
probably as many as spring bear threads.

[835]

Your a saucy bugger Klassen!
but correct.

[Jeff88]

well now that the 2012,2013 leh regs are out im heading to wall mart and get 6 draw cards ,while im there i might as well pick up licences and tags for me and my two kids ..ill break down the costs

6 leh cards ..42 bucks,plus change
3 hunting licences..108 bucks
3 deer tags..69 bucks
elk and moose tags after the leh results...so i wont add that yet
total..219.........just for that...thats last years prices ,,it may be more this year

[The Dawg]

I feel for ya....last year I had a bison tag and a spring grizz on top of 2 deer, a bear, moose and elk...

[Jeff88]

I feel for ya....last year I had a bison tag and a spring grizz on top of 2 deer, a bear, moose and elk...


did you manage to fill all those tags

[The Dawg]

Nope......

[coach]

6 leh cards ..42 bucks,plus change
3 hunting licences..108 bucks
3 deer tags..69 bucks
r

Watching your daughter harvest her first moose.... PRICELESS!

[Barracuda]

dont forget the bear tags

[Jeff88]

dont forget the bear tags

i dont hunt bear anymore..couldnt cook it or smoke it to make it edible ..ive killed dozens and tried every way under the sun to make it taste good ..

[Jeff88]

Watching your daughter harvest her first moose.... PRICELESS!


so true ..last years big 4 point mulie she got ..holly shit ,the reaction was awsome ,she was jumping so high i thought she was on a trampoline

[Bob B]

LEH Regulations Synopsis is available online! May 1st for printed copies. May 25th DEADLINE‏

[s0ylentgreen]

sweet
i notice page 3 on the 12/13 leh says there refer to the 2012-2014 hunting regulations synopsys

when does that come out?

[The Dawg]

Already filled mine out :)

Ya, that Rick Roll was epic. Whomever did it rules!

[dragonslayer]

They are online as of today

[BiG Boar]

Last years booklet for me:
Book 33.60
Black bear 18.00 :-D
Black bear 18.00
Grizzly 89.60
Sheep 67.20 :mrgreen:
Caribou 22.40
Elk 28.00 :mrgreen:
Mule Deer 16.80 :-D
Moose 28.00
White Tail 16.80
Lynx 8.96
Wolverine 8.96
Bobcat 8.96
Cougar 33.60
Mountain Goat 44.80 :-D
White Tail 16.80 : )

Grand total of $460.48!!!!!!!!!!

Filling the tags I did, and the places I saw.....Priceless. On second thought.... no, many thousands of dollars on flights, horses, and travel cost.

[dragonslayer]

well now that the 2012,2013 leh regs are out im heading to wall mart and get 6 draw cards ,while im there i might as well pick up licences and tags for me and my two kids ..ill break down the costs

6 leh cards ..42 bucks,plus change
3 hunting licences..108 bucks
3 deer tags..69 bucks
elk and moose tags after the leh results...so i wont add that yet
total..219.........just for that...thats last years prices ,,it may be more this year

Yes it sure does cost a lot to have fun, I know the pain!

[coach]

so true ..last years big 4 point mulie she got ..holly shit ,the reaction was awsome ,she was jumping so high i thought she was on a trampoline

Ha ha. That deer of hers cost my family! Kiana saw the picture and refused to pull the trigger on a little one. She wanted to do better than your daughter. Lol

[REMINGTON JIM]

Yup - Having Fun and enjoying life cost money ! :-D staying home is cheap but pretty boring ! :( RJ

[Barracuda]

actually haveing fun and enjoying life does not have to cost tons of money . staying home can be boreing depending where home is and even expensive if you do things like eat out or other canned entertainment.
You dont need to spend alot to enjoy alot you just need imagination and desire.

Factor in the cost to do anything else and hunting is very reasonable especially if you live somewhere with good hunting.

[bigredchev]

lets face it, the prices could be ten times as much and we'd all whine and moan but still be up at 4am to get at it opening day.

[Husky7mm]

Last years booklet for me:
Book 33.60
Black bear 18.00 :-D
Black bear 18.00
Grizzly 89.60
Sheep 67.20 :mrgreen:
Caribou 22.40
Elk 28.00 :mrgreen:
Mule Deer 16.80 :-D
Moose 28.00
White Tail 16.80
Lynx 8.96
Wolverine 8.96
Bobcat 8.96
Cougar 33.60
Mountain Goat 44.80 :-D
White Tail 16.80 : )

Grand total of $460.48!!!!!!!!!!

Filling the tags I did, and the places I saw.....Priceless. On second thought.... no, many thousands of dollars on flights, horses, and travel cost.
I don't think your yearly experiences are the norm, but good on ya, me jealous!

[lip_ripper00]

Now add up fresh and salt water with salmon tags for the family..... a weekend on the west coast harvesting crab and oyster fresh clams .....PRICELESS:mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Big Lew]

Depends on how you look at it....the tickets and extras to watch one hockey play-off game is more....

[Jeff88]

Ha ha. That deer of hers cost my family! Kiana saw the picture and refused to pull the trigger on a little one. She wanted to do better than your daughter. Lol


sorry about that coach ...im trying to tell jenna that getting a deer like hers doesnt happen like that every time ,she got lucky ..shes thinking its going to be like that every year ...boy shes going to have a wake up call soon ..

watch ,she will bag another beauty this year ,that would be funny, and great..


http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG036jennas.jpghttp://www.hunt101.com/data/500/attach1.jpg

[Jeff88]

Now add up fresh and salt water with salmon tags for the family..... a weekend on the west coast harvesting crab and oyster fresh clams .....PRICELESS:mrgreen::mrgreen:


ya i no ,those trips to my cabin are costly too ...you gotta pay if you wanna play


http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG090cabin.jpg

[ufishifish2]

Sweet! Bought two new snowmobiles for the up and coming buffalo season!!! :)
I'll get drawn this year for sure!

[moosinaround]

Ummmm............................................I am not sure if any of you know this.............................................. ......................but LEH's are out!! Moosin

[swampthing]

You sure are excitable these days. Better get that 450 out for another walk.

[BromBones]

Last year had license, black bear x 2, grizzly, sheep, goat, moose, caribou, deer x 2, probly a couple others. Add fishing license & extras, trappers license, and LEH cards, and it makes for a hefty price tag. All money well spent though.

[moosinaround]

You sure are excitable these days. Better get that 450 out for another walk.
Waiting for some RL-7, then I will be bustin out the Barnes Busters on a Black Bear!!! Sure hope 400gr boolits will be enough??!!;) Moosin

[Cyrus]

...was hoping everyone would of forgot about it....thanks for the update off to get my cards tomorrow!

[Cyrus]

Cant wait to get drawn for NIL...great tasting soup!!

[Jelvis]

Any changes to boundaries or divisions a b or c d etc.
Same as last year or different codes?

[Jelvis]

Whens the final day to put leh cards in for 2012 moose and deer and kammy sheep 3-29?

[Jelvis]

Any major changes in codes or boundaries and sections a, b, c, and d etc.

[bearhunter338-06]

Can a non resident Canadian apply for the LEH group hunt.

[guest]

NO, BC residents only

CT

[Jeff88]

on my to walmart for the cards ,they better have em.theres a good chance there sold out ..,day after the synopses comes out ,everyones buying today

[NaStY]

Just came back from cambodian tire. They had lots............

[Moose63]

If something like this could be put into effect, I predict that participation would go up BIG TIME!

Thanks for being the middle man, Gates.

I see the transferrable option open to fraud. Someone with no intention of hunting could "transfer" (or read sell) his\her LEH.

[Darksith]

so we can't do the cards online still? This is getting a little ridiculous. Making online purchasing and filing of the cards would only save money, prevent errors, and make all our lives a little easier. Oh well maybe next year.

[Barracuda]

in a way its kinda fun hunting for cards pouring over regs and leh with a pencil in hand and makeing choices then more choices and a few more .

[Darksith]

yeah but it costs us all $ b/c of all the labour involved in xfering them to digital format. Even if they changed the card system to the type that you colored in the appropriate boxes they could simply auto feed the cards into a computer instead of transfering them all manually. The talk last year here anyway was they were going to go online, guess thats all it was was talk

[elcazador]

You know there is an opportunity to get this going without the gov. I bet you if anyone here developed the online system, to do the leh digitally the government will buy it for the developer, this is not that complicated. The complicated thing will be to tie the synopsis to the system, or make the synopsis online, now that is way more complicated for the user and a whole user experience need to be taken into account, not just put the form online...

My 2 cent

[2chodi]

Not a question, but didn't see another appropriate place to post this announcement. Electronic LEH regs are now available:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/leh.html#ShowAll

[2chodi]

Looks like there are over 100 more bison authorizations compare to 2011.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/docs/leh_12_13.pdf

[300wsmXboltKiller]

good maybe ill finally get one

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

Looks like there are over 100 more bison authorizations compare to 2011.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/docs/leh_12_13.pdf

looks to me about 50 more but that's not the answer to drop the herd down.. longer seasons with less pressure will increase success rates..a average of 30 tags per opening with a average of 3 hunters per tag = 90 sleds or ATVs every 2 weeks = not good harvest rates

[Tuffcity]

but that's not the answer to drop the herd down..

December 01 - February 28 GOS :)

RC

[Darksith]

Not a question, but didn't see another appropriate place to post this announcement. Electronic LEH regs are now available:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/leh.html#ShowAll
The regs are available, and its been said already. But we're talkin about the cards not the regs.

[JAFA]

We have hunted in region 8, and region 3 a bit.

Looking to enter Deer Doe and Moose LEH, (Elk is probably out of our league).

Kids are 10 and 12, been hunting with me for 6-7 years now. They are pretty, tough hardy camper and hunters, we do the wall tent thing.

Every year I am struggling to figure out where we want to be, usually end up in 8-12 8-14 for one week long hunt, and 5-02 (B) for another, then fill the season with 3 day trips into western region ... 8 and 3 close to town (Burnaby) up off the COQ as possible to limit travel time.

The COQ connector is a nice area as well.

This year with the kids having just passed their Core, we anticipate maybe getting lucky due their "new" hunter status.

Our goal is to stay close to Burnaby, hunt Deer and Moose. We need some advise of what to put in for and where.

PM or just post is fine, and of course we are not looking for grandpa's coveted honey hole passed down from generation to generation, just general areas, timelines and strategy. We don't have a Quad, so we are on foot for the most part.

We would like to include some early season hunts, maybe even August for Moose??

Thanks Jim.

[Buck]

Really need a group hunt option on this and should be able to use a quad with tracks after Nov 15th or so.

[2chodi]

looks to me about 50 more but that's not the answer to drop the herd down.. longer seasons with less pressure will increase success rates..a average of 30 tags per opening with a average of 3 hunters per tag = 90 sleds or ATVs every 2 weeks = not good harvest rates

Yes, you're right - closer to 50 more.

Speaking from experience, the hunt can be a bit of a gong show unless you have the ability to get away from the main corridors. The guided hunter tags are good for the entire season - maybe it should be that way for resident authorizations as well???

[quadrakid]

Which is the best zone for vancouver island whitetails?

[Island Idiots]

There is no LEH for white tails on the island because there are
no white tails on the island.

[lawlu]

Which is the best zone for vancouver island whitetails?

They're all on "North/South America Island", they don't like Vancouver island ;)

[sparky300winmag]

wasn't sure if it was common knowledge but the 2012-2013 LEH regs are out online.

[Jeff88]

wasn't sure if it was common knowledge but the 2012-2013 LEH regs are out online.


they have been for days now ....old news

[CraigOC]

Any idea if the hard copies will be out before May 1st? Is that the latest it will be out or the earliest? Looking at it online isn't as much fun.

[goinghunting]

Haven't read all through this thread so I hope this hasn't already been asked but I've always wondered how your second peference works on LEH? I was under the assumption if your LEH gets pulled and your first choice doesn't have any tags left then they check your second choice and if there are tags left you get one? Now I've been told that might not be correct so how does it work?

Thanks,

[reach]

Haven't read all through this thread so I hope this hasn't already been asked but I've always wondered how your second peference works on LEH? I was under the assumption if your LEH gets pulled and your first choice doesn't have any tags left then they check your second choice and if there are tags left you get one? Now I've been told that might not be correct so how does it work?

Thanks,
More or less. The part in bold is the key. The pass to check for second choices is not done until AFTER all the first choices have been checked. In other words, your second choice will never be picked if the odds are worse than 1:1, i.e. if there are more applicants who picked that as their first choice than there are authorizations.

Not counting data entry errors of course.

[argyle1]

is it a fact that region 6 sheep draws are now only by "early draw"

[Darksith]

heres a question for you boys...on your LEH application can you put in any mailing address or do they somehow figure out where you have moved to? Is the mailing address simply to get your results? The reason I ask this is every year I do a ton of cards for uncles, cousins, family etc etc. They all come hunting with me, we do a family trip every year. Its a huge pain to track down peeps new addresses all the time. Can I simply put in my own address and not have the card get thrown out for an error?

[bighornbob]

More or less. The part in bold is the key. The pass to check for second choices is not done until AFTER all the first choices have been checked. In other words, your second choice will never be picked if the odds are worse than 1:1, i.e. if there are more applicants who picked that as their first choice than there are authorizations.

Not counting data entry errors of course.

You are correct. I like how every year there are people on here that say they got their second choice moose or whatever but the odds are 10:1 or something. I never put in second choice unless its well below 1:1, as those are the odds of last year.

BHB

[bighornbob]

is it a fact that region 6 sheep draws are now only by "early draw"

Yes you are correct.

BHB

[bighornbob]

heres a question for you boys...on your LEH application can you put in any mailing address or do they somehow figure out where you have moved to? Is the mailing address simply to get your results? The reason I ask this is every year I do a ton of cards for uncles, cousins, family etc etc. They all come hunting with me, we do a family trip every year. Its a huge pain to track down peeps new addresses all the time. Can I simply put in my own address and not have the card get thrown out for an error?

I would think the address has to match the hunter #. I would bet they check the hunter number and if the name and address dont match they get thrown out or they call you to confirm.

A simple solution is for them to fill in their own cards. You just call them up and say enter code 4016 on one card, 6015 on the second and 2135 on the third.

BHB

[bassplayer]

Just picked up my hard copy of the LEH regs at ServiceBC. They are on the shelves now.

[Matty_ola]

You can use whatever address you want, just remember that's where your Authorisation will be sent if you get your draw.


heres a question for you boys...on your LEH application can you put in any mailing address or do they somehow figure out where you have moved to? Is the mailing address simply to get your results? The reason I ask this is every year I do a ton of cards for uncles, cousins, family etc etc. They all come hunting with me, we do a family trip every year. Its a huge pain to track down peeps new addresses all the time. Can I simply put in my own address and not have the card get thrown out for an error?

[Darksith]

You can use whatever address you want, just remember that's where your Authorisation will be sent if you get your draw.

Thats what I figured...myself Ive moved at least 8 times since I took the core 20 years ago, so I figured that the address would be simply for where the authorization and in past years where the more common letter of NIL would be sent, since they would have almost no way of tracking who is moving where if one didn't update their drivers license.

[bearhunter338-06]

If I put in for limited entry this year, will I get my draws.....................:-)

[bighornbob]

Thats what I figured...myself Ive moved at least 8 times since I took the core 20 years ago, so I figured that the address would be simply for where the authorization and in past years where the more common letter of NIL would be sent, since they would have almost no way of tracking who is moving where if one didn't update their drivers license.

Actually you are supposed to notify them of your change of address if you move. There is even a form to be used on Page 40 of the Hunting regs.

I think it would b best to phone the people at the LEH office and ask them. They will give you the correct answer.

BHB

[jetboat jim]

it says to write your name in capitols, does this mean they want your adress in capitols too ?

sorry for the dump question !

[NaStY]

it says to write your name in capitols, does this mean they want your adress in capitols too ?

sorry for the dump question !

Cant hurt............

[Darksith]

Actually you are supposed to notify them of your change of address if you move. There is even a form to be used on Page 40 of the Hunting regs.

I think it would b best to phone the people at the LEH office and ask them. They will give you the correct answer.

BHB

Yeah but have you ever moved since you got your #? Have you ever filled out that form? Me either, never had a problem. Guess Im just gonna wing it and see what happens, I suspect that I won't have a problem since I never have in the past from changes of address.

[Andrewh]

Can my buddy's and I mail all our individual LEH entries in one envelope? Or do they need to be sent individually?

[CraigOC]

Can my buddy's and I mail all our individual LEH entries in one envelope? Or do they need to be sent individually?


Individually, says in the LEH regs.

[bccanadian]

I put in for a moose LEH with a partner that we thought was a group but now we have found out that this year the MU area is now a "shared" hunt. I won't be able to go hunting even if we get lucky. My wife will most likely be taking time off. She has been diagnosed with breast cancer. She begins her treatments later this month.

Now my question is this. Can he still go hunting using the LEH tag if I'm not there and if so, later in the year can I hunt during a GOS even though the LEH regs say that if one hunter on a shared tag harvests a moose, the hunt is now over due to a limit of one animal per season.

My partner and I got talking about this and we couldn't figure out what the answer would be. I'm sure something similar happens all of the time but we don't know of anyone that it HAS happened to.

[Philcott]

As I understand it on a shared hunt there is one authorization given out for a shared hunt with two hunters applying. In the field, both hunters have to have a moose tag but only one moose can be shot since only one authorization was given. Once a moose is taken and a tag cancelled by the guy shooting the animal the LEH authorization has been used (don't forget to fill in the LEH paper too) and the hunt in the LEH area is over.

Both guys DO NOT have to be present. If for some reason one guy can't go, the other guy certainly can go and hunt the LEH.

If you can't join him on the LEH hunt you are allowed to go hunt moose in a GOS before, during or after the LEH dates because you have not cancelled a moose tag. No problems.

Best wishes to the upcoming health battle.

[shadow1982]

Are the results out yet?

[Philcott]

Are the results out yet?

Good one.......... :-D

[bccanadian]

As I understand it on a shared hunt there is one authorization given out for a shared hunt with two hunters applying. In the field, both hunters have to have a moose tag but only one moose can be shot since only one authorization was given. Once a moose is taken and a tag cancelled by the guy shooting the animal the LEH authorization has been used (don't forget to fill in the LEH paper too) and the hunt in the LEH area is over.

Both guys DO NOT have to be present. If for some reason one guy can't go, the other guy certainly can go and hunt the LEH.

If you can't join him on the LEH hunt you are allowed to go hunt moose in a GOS before, during or after the LEH dates because you have not cancelled a moose tag. No problems.

Best wishes to the upcoming health battle.



Thanks, Hunting this year has taken a back seat, maybe next year. She has had the cancer removed. Now the treatments are to reduce the chance of a reoccurrence.

Well at least my partner won't be left out to dry. He (if we're lucky) can still go.

[870]

any word on when the LEH draw will be completed?

[CraigOC]

any word on when the LEH draw will be completed?


2-3 weeks I was told

[Bushy]

......if your envelope is not marked properly?

RB

[tristanmac]

I believe each one just gets entered as an individual draw. That is what it says in the regulations synopsis.

[Bushy]

The mailing envelope MUST have "shared" or "group" marked on the bottom left side.

Maybe some will have a better chance to harvest as a group!

[rides bike to work]

If I was successful on a group moose hunt than this year went in with a group of guys that have never drawn a moose does my last years success lower the chances for my whole group this year essentially screwing them all over

[olympia]

i have put in for leh for first time and the deadline was for may 25/12, how long before the results will be posted? is this something that just takes a few weeks or is it a few months?

[835]

Trust me buddy you will know when it happens! This place will blow up, there will be 50 of these threads before long! By the way congrats on being the first honest one. End of the month ish.

[835]

When they are done you will have a link here http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/leh.html
"Success in the draw" then somethin like See results will pop up when the get it done.

[sarg]

Closer to the end of June they should be out

[604redneck]

I wish i could fast forward to the day they were out! I hate waiting for leh every year just for dissapointment!

[Darksith]

haha, that might be a new record, 13 days after deadline...maybe not. First week of july is probably the average time they come out.

[cooterdog]

Its the wait that kills us. I'm betting it will come out while I'm at work for two weeks

[pg83]

I missed these threads.

[Spy]

I phoned today the lady I spoke to said,"they hope to have them online by Friday afternoon !"

[The Dawg]

She didnt say which Friday....probably meant Friday July 6th if we are lucky

[nolimits]

i have put in for leh for first time and the deadline was for may 25/12, how long before the results will be posted? is this something that just takes a few weeks or is it a few months?

I was wondering the same, and I am so curious I am seriously considering going to a reputable palm reader. They can provide all the answer. If you like we can go together and ask for a group discount.

[scoutlt1]

I was wondering the same, and I am so curious I am seriously considering going to a reputable palm reader. They can provide all the answer. If you like we can go together and ask for a group discount.

I'd say use your palm to kill some time until the end of the month and save yourself the $$$ ;-)

[.300WSMImpact!]

I phoned today the lady I spoke to said,"they hope to have them online by Friday afternoon !"

that lady is going to be VERY busy on friday now with all the calls she is going to get, I just hope we hear before june 22 I go fishing in the north Manitoba for a week and cant check computer for a week :-D

[BCHunterTV]

june 15 i was told(friday)

[nolimits]

I'd say use your palm to kill some time until the end of the month and save yourself the $$$ ;-)

Do tell, what exactly do you mean by using palm to kill some time?? Now you got me very interested. :twisted: :mrgreen:

[bccanadian]

Do tell, what exactly do you mean by using palm to kill some time?? Now you got me very interested. :twisted: :mrgreen:

He means Henrietta palm and her five sisters....:twisted:

[nolimits]

He means Henrietta palm and her five sisters....:twisted:

Holy crap, we are getting somewhere. Let's hear some more Henrietta and her 5 sisters. :-D:-D:-D

[cameron0518]

I know Samjam99 and he says Friday is a done deal.

[cwocarsten]

Every year I wait with anticipation, only to find out my Goose eggs help some other hunters get their draws. I wonder what the record number of years are for applying and getting goose eggs? Hmmm

[CraigOC]

If I was successful on a group moose hunt than this year went in with a group of guys that have never drawn a moose does my last years success lower the chances for my whole group this year essentially screwing them all over


yes it sure does unfortunately

[hunter1947]

My turn for a Roosevelt elk LEH Vancouver Island :mrgreen:..