Big Game/Moose Hunt protecol

[Moosegooser]

I just returned from a moose hunt out of Dease Lake. My question is this: I was hunting (1200 mile truck,plane,long ride on horse) with 1 other hunter and 1 guide each. The first morning, the other hunter discovered his scope was hopelessly fogged and no way to get fixed. Since I had the only scoped working gun, it was obvious he would have to use my gun. I suggestied "let me put a moose on the ground and then you can have my gun". That was OK for about 15 minutes and then the guide/owner said usually whoever sees the moose 1st gets to shoot it. I didn't comment on that thought but it seems illogical that after buying a bigger new gun/scope just for this moose hunt, going to range more than I ever have in my life to prepare, that I would have to hand my gun over to a stranger to shoot a moose that his 40 yr old eyes saw before my 60+ yr old eyes could. We should have been hunting separately with our guides in a perfect world. Feeling somewhat pressured, I took a 48" moose on day 1 and gave my gun to the other guy with no problem. The next day, 3 wolves come up to the kill and since he had my gun he shot and missed a standing shot at 180yd. He did get a moose next to last day and hunt ended well. I really am just trying to get some unbiased opinions (all are good) as to what anyone thinks should happen in that situation. (I am not whining)(really-it ended up a terrific hunt). All comments appreciated

[monasheemountainman]

You were 100% right IMO it's not up to the guide to tell you when to give someone your gun! Good thing everything went fine because that could have got messy! You were nice to lend him your rifle. Cheap ******* should have ponied up for a better scope.

[Beaverhunter]

I agree with you aswell

[j270wsm]

Your a far better man than I am. My conversation would have went a little differently.

[Ry151]

There is no fxxking way someone would be using my gun to shoot an animal before me if they werent family!! I honestly dont know if id let a stranger even use my rifle. I go with out alot so that i can afford the best gear i can so that this doesnt happen to me. Your a good man for helping this guy out but you should have shot the guides horse and made him walk for having suck a dumb idea. Lol jk not the horses fault

[curt]

I agree there is no way a guide i was paying would be telling me to hand over my gun I would gladly lend it out after i was done but not before the fact his equipment failed is not 1 oz your responsibility

[Fred1]

I am a guide. You are a top notch person to offer up your rifle! Good on you! I love clients like you! As for the guide/owner telling you who and or when someone else is to use your equipment, he is way off base! Regardless of who spots the moose. He should have offered up his own rifle, I mean what guide doesn't have a gun anyway? - off topic... I have been in this situation where one clients rifle becomes suspect during a hunt - I sometimes have two clients at the same time. (I give them my rifle). If this option wasn't available, the guide/outfitter should have deemed YOU the first shooter regardless of who spots the moose. After all its your equipment and the other guys' tough luck. If you don't want that particular moose then you pass the option to person number two. Another way to sort out first shooter is with a coin flip - simple, decision made. I have been there and this works. We do this kind of thing all the time when running the river in the boats. The boat captain designates ONE bow shooter, if he decides he doesn't want that moose it falls to designated shooter number two. (Yes we play by all the boat/shooting rules) Again, good on you for sharing! *Claps hands!

[swampthing]

I agree with the first see first shoot program...but under the circumstances and your generous offer, the other guy should have taken whatever you offered. The guide thinks like I do with the first see first shoot thing...but once again the situation changed. You should have got to shoot the wolves. I would carry my own gun until it was time to lend it for a shot. Your a good man.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I am an outfitter. First off your hunt was 1 on 1 you should not have been hunting the same area.
The guide had no business telling you anything about who shoots first. My guess is that one of the guides did not have a license and was actually a wrangler. Legally he could not have separated the hunting party.

[Ranger95]

I am a guide. You are a top notch person to offer up your rifle! Good on you! I love clients like you! As for the guide/owner telling you who and or when someone else is to use your equipment, he is way off base! Regardless of who spots the moose. He should have offered up his own rifle, I mean what guide doesn't have a gun anyway? - off topic... I have been in this situation where one clients rifle becomes suspect during a hunt - I sometimes have two clients at the same time. (I give them my rifle). If this option wasn't available, the guide/outfitter should have deemed YOU the first shooter regardless of who spots the moose. After all its your equipment and the other guys' tough luck. If you don't want that particular moose then you pass the option to person number two. Another way to sort out first shooter is with a coin flip - simple, decision made. I have been there and this works. We do this kind of thing all the time when running the river in the boats. The boat captain designates ONE bow shooter, if he decides he doesn't want that moose it falls to designated shooter number two. (Yes we play by all the boat/shooting rules) Again, good on you for sharing! *Claps hands!

what at he said - why did the guide not offer his rifle to his client? Very unprofessional if the truth be told!

[Everett]

Wow you are seriously nice guy my response to the guide would have involved four letter words.

[Skull Hunter]

I can't believe the outfitter didn't have a gun for the other hunter. I agree with the first one to spot it gets first chance to shoot, but not on a guided hunt. If you paid for a 1 on 1 experience, that other hunter should not have been with you. At least not until you harvested the moose you wanted.

[steel_ram]

Good on you for offering your gun at all. What kind of guy has money to pay out for a guide but shows up with a POS scope.

[Kopper]

You'd think that the outfitter would have a spare gun for their clients, never had a scope/gun malfunction before?

Anyways good on ya, I personally think it was wrong of the guide to ask you do that however I can see where he is coming from. He had to balance the pros and cons of having a very unhappy customer because he can't shoot vs you being pissed about having to hand over your gun for the "who sees shoots rule", which I abide by. Unfortunately his decision was at your expense. Overall you had a good hunt so no harm done!

[Moosegooser]

Thank you all for your input. It helps put it all in perspective and I feel a little better about how it felt. The hunt did turn out fine and everyone had a good time. My truck broke down on way home and you would not believe how many people from 100 Mile house helped me get back on the road with the moose meat. I really like BC!

[monasheemountainman]

Glad you had a good trip. Congrats on the moose any pics of the trip?

[Black Lab]

Seems strange to me to spend that much money on a hunting trip and no one takes a back up rifle... I doubt I would lend my rifle to a stranger.

[Sitter]

What kind of guide doesn't have a spare gun? He is the one who should be making the offer, not you. He has no business adding his two bits as to when your gear should be lent out. That should be your decision.

[boxhitch]

Its easy to see there may not be a spare rifle in a spike camp , g/o probably has one but back at the main camp or at home , and it takes time to get them moved around. Not all assistant guides carry suitable rifles to loan , its not their responsibility.
Not completely clear on the situation , but on a 1-on-1 no need for the two hunters to be together unless requested by them. If it was a 2-on-1 w/ a wrangler/packer , the second hunter could wind up just sitting at camp wishing/waiting for a rifle.
No way pressure should have been put on you to fill the crisis , and if/when you offer anything it should be on your terms. $#it happens to equipment in anyones hands , but it would be real poor if it did happen when in someone elses hands before you are done with it yourself. Being part of a team only goes so far when you are paying your own way
My toys , my rules , no matter whose sandbox :)

Good on you for being so noble as to loan your rifle , glad things worked out. The meat you are eating should remind you of all the good times.

[Downtown]

I just returned from a moose hunt out of Dease Lake. My question is this: I was hunting (1200 mile truck,plane,long ride on horse) with 1 other hunter and 1 guide each. The first morning, the other hunter discovered his scope was hopelessly fogged and no way to get fixed. Since I had the only scoped working gun, it was obvious he would have to use my gun. I suggestied "let me put a moose on the ground and then you can have my gun". That was OK for about 15 minutes and then the guide/owner said usually whoever sees the moose 1st gets to shoot it. I didn't comment on that thought but it seems illogical that after buying a bigger new gun/scope just for this moose hunt, going to range more than I ever have in my life to prepare, that I would have to hand my gun over to a stranger to shoot a moose that his 40 yr old eyes saw before my 60+ yr old eyes could. We should have been hunting separately with our guides in a perfect world. Feeling somewhat pressured, I took a 48" moose on day 1 and gave my gun to the other guy with no problem. The next day, 3 wolves come up to the kill and since he had my gun he shot and missed a standing shot at 180yd. He did get a moose next to last day and hunt ended well. I really am just trying to get some unbiased opinions (all are good) as to what anyone thinks should happen in that situation. (I am not whining)(really-it ended up a terrific hunt). All comments appreciated

I am an outfitter with 35+ years in BC.
*If the hunt was booked as a 1*1 guided hunt you need to talk to your Outfitter (do it in writing/registered mail) and give him a chance to make it right for you.

*While you give the Outfitter some time to consider, check with the Fish & Wildlife if both so called Guides where in fact licenced.

*Your Gun is your own equipment and no one including an Assistant Guide and/or an Outfitter can tell you to borrow it to someone else.

*Based on my own experience it it wise for any Hunter to have a Gun you depend on fitted with open sights as well. It is just not practical to carry a spare Gun.

*An excellent way to protect your Scope on a hunt with Horses is having your Rifle fitted with German made AWA Quick exchange Scope mounts, yes they are not cheap but allow you to have your Scope in your packsack and back on the Rifle within seconds.


*Some Outfitters do not allow Guides to carry guns, which in my opinion is a bad Idea but some Guides don't have a PAL. Other guides carry only a unscoped 303 which may be enough for an emergency but not for a longer shot particular if the shooter does not know the particular Rifle.

You seem to be a very Fair Person and I hope that your fellow Hunting Partner and Guides/Wrangler appreciated your kindness.

Finally, insist on getting what you have paid for.

Good Luck and enjoy your memories.

Cheers

Just came to mind. There is nothing wrong for a Client/Hunter to ask his Guide to show him his Assistant Guide licence, just as there is nothing wrong for the Assistant Guide (and he should) to ask the Client to show him his hunting Licence and Tags. In fact our written Company Policy requests our assistant Guides to goto this ritual every single time just before they leave Camp.

[Blainer]

As noted by others, I agree with your thought process.
Not to mention that you were in Grizzly country hunting moose with 3 people and only 1 gun?
wtf?

[Gr8 white hunter]

You did the right thing no way would let him shoot the first animal with my gun.Didn't the guide have a gun to lend?

[Ferenc]

You did a awesome deal there .. And for the guide I feel he also did a good thing .. Guides have a challenging job no doubt. In my opinion maybe he was just trying to keep both of you motivated for the hunt....

[r106]

Since it was a total stranger, I wouldn't let him use it until I had the bull I wanted down. If it was family or a friend then I would have done what the guide was suggesting. Good on you for letting him use your gun though. He must have been very happy that you saved his hunt.

[604redneck]

As a guide as well I would have never had another guide and client near me. If my client was succesful and he wanted to give up his gun that is his choice. The other guide would have been lending his gun out if I had been there.

[Avalanche123]

As an assistant guide myself, you are a very noble client. I've seen a number things "go south" on a guided hunt that wasn't planned for. Sometimes the end result wasn't great, but most times, like your experience. "things worked out".

The 1:1 you paid for should be acknowledged. That said I have had clients pay for 1:1 and on the day of the fly in, only one assistant is available (due to illness, injury etc) so it turns into 2:1. So there you are 1200 miles from home and ready to go so you make the best of it.

Telling the client to lend your rifle to someone you don't know just strikes me as weird. If anything, the client with the messed up scope gets to use my 45-70 shorty guide gun with open sights if no other gun is available from the Outfitter.

For what it is worth, I always carry my clients licences etc on my person. That way I know they won't get lost, damaged. etc....

I am pleased you got your moose. In the end it worked out but yes you had to compromise. No harm in sending the Outfitter a note telling him/her about your experience and just maybe you will get to go back at a reduced cost on the 1:1 hunt you wanted.

[Sleep Robber]

4 people in the bush ?, 2 guides and 2 hunters ?.....should = 4 guns right ?....why you were asked to lend your gun is beyond me ???....should have NEVER happened !!! I woulda been down right pissed when I heard that come from a guides mouth.

As for the 1:1 guide/hunter......that should definitely have happened as well !!.....I mean C'mon man, after a 1200 mile journey I would have insisted on this.....sorry but I ain't traveling that far to hunt with some friggin stranger whose packin a POS scope on his firearm. When a person travels that far for a {once in a life time maybe ?} hunting trip, they better make damn well sure their gear is in order.....period !!

Just my opinion, some may not like it but tough, when a guides client has some gear malfunction it is the GUIDES job to see that the problem can be overcome, NOT the other hunter in a supposedly totally different hunting party.

To each his own.......... I'm glad your hunt turned out and you were okay with lending the other hunter your gun but I have enough trouble lending one of my guns to a friend let a lone some stranger so IMO your guide was way outta line...........

[325]

I think you should write the outfitter and explain that you felt pressure to shoot a moose that was a little smaller than you wanted. See if he will do something for you. He probably won't because he already has your money and the hunt is over.

As for the "whoever sees the animal first gets to shoot it", is completely out to lunch when it's YOUR rifle that will be doing the shooting.

[sawmill]

Reach for my rifle and you will be drawing back a bloody stump.And your guide was an asshole.

[solo]

I just returned from a moose hunt out of Dease Lake. My question is this: I was hunting (1200 mile truck,plane,long ride on horse) with 1 other hunter and 1 guide each. The first morning, the other hunter discovered his scope was hopelessly fogged and no way to get fixed. Since I had the only scoped working gun, it was obvious he would have to use my gun. I suggestied "let me put a moose on the ground and then you can have my gun". That was OK for about 15 minutes and then the guide/owner said usually whoever sees the moose 1st gets to shoot it. I didn't comment on that thought but it seems illogical that after buying a bigger new gun/scope just for this moose hunt, going to range more than I ever have in my life to prepare, that I would have to hand my gun over to a stranger to shoot a moose that his 40 yr old eyes saw before my 60+ yr old eyes could. We should have been hunting separately with our guides in a perfect world. Feeling somewhat pressured, I took a 48" moose on day 1 and gave my gun to the other guy with no problem. The next day, 3 wolves come up to the kill and since he had my gun he shot and missed a standing shot at 180yd. He did get a moose next to last day and hunt ended well. I really am just trying to get some unbiased opinions (all are good) as to what anyone thinks should happen in that situation. (I am not whining)(really-it ended up a terrific hunt). All comments appreciated

I would hope that as an international client, the outfitter would want to do something for you. You saved his butt when you decided to loan your gun to his other client. Glad you had a great hunt! Do you have any pictures, and a story about the trip and the hunt for us hunting junkies to read?😃

[BigSlapper]

Nobody would be touching my gun except me. I agree with others that you may want to send him a letter.

[Gateholio]

I have no problem lending a rifle to A FRIEND but in this situation, a paid for guided hunt? No way. I'd feel empathy for the other hunter but he's not getting my rifle until I'm good and done with it, and that's only if he's a nice guy. I'm not lending him my toothbrush if he forgets his, either...

[Moosegooser]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. I would have to say that when the other hunter discovered his bad scope (1st morning) we were all standing there with noone saying much. The guide/owner didn't ask me to lend my gun outright but I didn't know what else to do "at the time". In hind sight, I would have put some restrictions on the deal. I knew we would all be in that camp for a week and how would you handle that tangled can of worms? The guide/owner and the assistant guide both had lever action rifles with open sights. I think a 30.30 and a 308. I didn't even know that at the time. But no offer to use those guns was made. I am a little surprised at my lending the gun that I paid dearly for and obsessed over for a year. I was just trying to fix a really bad situation. I won't do it like that again.
Just to explain the setting. 1st day of hunting was lost to a bad cylinder on the Beaver. Got that fixed and flew 50 miles out of Dease Lake. Landed at a small lake with some wall tents and connected with other guides and many horses. 2 hunters stayed there with 2 guides and a cook and I went with 1 other hunter and guide/owner and guide on a 4 hour horse ride to a remote cabin in a terrific setting. One of the guides who stayed at camp 1 developed blood poisoning from a cut hand and had to be air lifted to smithers for IV's. The other guide , at that camp, had to leave for personal reasons and a new guide was brought in to help the 1 hunter. The 4th hunter actually shot his moose on the 1st day not far from camp. That new guide tried but couldn't get a bull for the 4th hunter. So we got 3 for 4 on the trip. The only other downside was when we got back to camp 1 at the end of the week, my stash of beer was gone and they said one of the horses found it and drank it.:mrgreen:
. I am trying to add picture but it doesn't seem to work for me..........

[buckshot]

Well Moosegooser you are a true sportsman and a better man than me for the way you acted in this situation! Karma will even things out in the end.

[gone hunting]

Before I read what the others have to say on the subject....sure under normal circumstances maybe in the guides world he who see's first shoots first but buddy didn't bring a rifle/scope that works....so he who see's first and has a rifle/scope that works shoots first. No brainer. He was lucky that you were willing to lend him your rifle.

[Gateholio]

Sounds pretty shady if they drank your beer too. Whole thing sounds shady. Lots of great outfitters in BC but yours sucked. Hope you come back some day with a reputable outfitter.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Sounds pretty shady if they drank your beer too. Whole thing sounds shady. Lots of great outfitters in BC but yours sucked. Hope you come back some day with a reputable outfitter.

that is a fact Jack

[sawmill]

One more thing.
I WILL NOT own a rifle that doesn't have iron sights as a back up.It`s pulled me out of a jam before.Anybody who knows their rifle can easily make a 100-200 yard shot on a moose with iron sights.