Which Bullet?

[Sniperdan]

I am aware that asking this question is like asking which truck or quad to buy, but I really want to see if there is any type of consensus out there regarding bullets. You see, a couple of years ago I switched to the Winchester XP3 after reading some reviews on it. This is a very sexy bullet and I especially loved the fact that I could load and unload my gun many times without damaging the tip (unlike the soft points of many other bullets that end up all deformed after chambering a few times).

Here is my dilemma, last year I shot an elk and for the first time in my life I had to track a blood trail further than only a few dozen yards. Actually I followed it for many many hours and was never able to recover the animal. This was especially difficult for me and I lost a lot of sleep due to the guilt of having an animal out there suffering at my hand. I chalked it up to possibly pulling when I took the shot and maybe just didn't make a good enough shot even though it felt good. Fast forward to this year where I ended up in a similar scenario. I took an easy 70 yard shot on an elk right behind the shoulder into the boiler room and off it went into the trees. I was confident in the shot but there was no blood on the gravel where it was standing when I shot. Still confident I headed into the trees expecting to find it lying there somewhere...no luck as darkness rapidly descended. Four of us searched with flashlights for any sign of blood with no luck. We decided to return first thing in the morning. Next morning at first light we returned and set off into the brush searching in a grid pattern. It took us a while but we finally found blood and there was a lot of it. It appears the elk ran about 150 yards through the thick brush before it even started bleeding. So we followed the blood for many hours until we came to a spot where the elk had rolled around in the dirt and struggled to get back up. We thought for sure we had to be getting close. Problem is, rolling in the dirt ended the blood trail and no matter how hard we looked, we could not pick it up again. So once again, I am left feeling guilty and now I am questioning my bullet choice. Both times I know I connected in the boiler room, both times there was blood and it was bright red, both times there was not enough damage to put the animal down. And now I am looking for a new bullet choice.

So here is my question; What is the best bullet to use in a 30-06 to take down Deer, Elk and Moose that will also retain it's shape when chambered multiple times. I am currently leaning toward the Barnes Triple Shock.

[finngun]

barnes [any of them] good choice:)

[Onesock]

First problem is the 30-06. Buy a magnum. lol

[GotaGun]

I run federal vital shock trophy copper 180 grain.
In my 30-06.

[tinhorse]

Any bullet that shoots well out of your gun is the best one to choice. It's all shot placement. However, assuming slight errors in shot placement as many of us do now and again, missing the heart or both lungs, I would go as suggested with the barnes or accubond.

[Ltbullken]

The XP3 is as premium a bullet as you can get. Should be no issue with that bullet. But Triple Shock, Swift, Accubond, Partition or Federal Fusion or Trophy Bonded are also excellent. Nothing less than 165/8 grain bullet. IMHO, I think a Partition will do more damage as the front will shed but the rear core will penetrate - it's a good balance for a bullet. But I have also dumped a lot of animals with the TSX. Deformed tips don't affect accuracy very much so it's not something to worry about. Just whatever you shoot has to be accurate. If you can't reliably put the bullet where you intend, it's not far from a boiler room shot to a gut shot, which will kill the animal slowly. Over the years, twice I've pulled bullets that weren't mine from animals. These bullets were cased over with scar tissue so had wounded the animal prior without killing it. What are the odds?!

When you made your shots, were they from a solid supported position or 'from the hip' snap shooting? Try practising some of the shots you made, try to replicate the conditions under which you made the shot. FWIW, you might get a sense of what is going on with your shooting. You can practice from the bench at the range but in the field, you might find you are shooting quite differently. Just something else to consider. My 2 cents...

[Rackmastr]

Shot placement I'd say is a bigger key factor from what I'm reading in your post. A bullet 'in the boiler room' rarely results in what you've described. If switching bullets makes a guy feel more confident, then all the power to ya though. Especially if it means spending more time at the range and becoming more confident in your shooting.

Seems to be that a lot of hunters these days strive to find the 'perfect' bullet for everything. The truth is that most bullets will do a great job if the shooter does their part. Finding great performing bullets is a solid idea, but the two go hand in hand with the latter being the more important I'd say.

I'm a TTSX shooter, but several thousands of elk have died and died quicky from several of the choices out there. I'd venture to say I have killed more elk with Corelokts back in the day than I have with a 'better' bullet like the TTSX ;)

[KodiakHntr]

Start shooting for bone, and you'll have better luck with a tough bullet like the XP3..... Lung shots are going to result in a high percentage of runners, which can make recovery tough.

Break shoulders, and they tend to not go as far.

[Rackmastr]

Start shooting for bone, and you'll have better luck with a tough bullet like the XP3..... Lung shots are going to result in a high percentage of runners, which can make recovery tough.

Break shoulders, and they tend to not go as far.

Good point...and the same could be said about the TSX or TTSX or GMX if you make that switch as well.

I shoot for high shoulder shots on a lot of the game I shoot after switching to a more 'premium' bullet. Results in better performance and quicker kills I've found.

[mikeman20]

I shoot 168 gr tax out of my 3006, the last moose I took got a tone on laughs because in everyone else's words it looked "like you shot it with a ****ing cannon!" (Hot hand loads)
It was a double lung shot that hit a rib, little entrance wound but the exit was about 10" diameter.

I've never had anything I have shot with the Barnes tsx go further than 20 feet

[elknut]

A lung shot elk will have frothy blood with lots of bubbles..Red blood means a muscle shot ...Not neccesarily a mortal shot..Two lost elk in 2 years...I would definetly look at a different shot placement next time..

[Sniperdan]

Thanks guys for some good tips. For those that want to question my shooting abilities or confidence....don't bother...I can shoot! I will however gladly take criticism on shot placement as I have deliberately been shooting behind the shoulder in order to avoid damaging too much meat because I got tired of losing most of one or more front quarters. So I guess I will have to go back to taking out the shoulder. Still going to give the TSX a go though. Maybe in 180 grain.

[Sniperdan]

I have also recently acquired a 7mm Rem Mag but have no experience with this calibre. Any advice on what size bullet to use?

[KodiakHntr]

Thanks guys for some good tips. For those that want to question my shooting abilities or confidence....don't bother...I can shoot! I will however gladly take criticism on shot placement as I have deliberately been shooting behind the shoulder in order to avoid damaging too much meat because I got tired of losing most of one or more front quarters. So I guess I will have to go back to taking out the shoulder. Still going to give the TSX a go though. Maybe in 180 grain.

I generally fling 168 tsx's as fast as possible with my 300 Ultra for elk, and always shoot for bone. The last 5 elk shot with it, resulted in one moderately buggered front quarter (from this years bull) where impact velocity would have been upwards of 3400fps.

I would call that 19.5 quarters out of a possible 20 recovered, with those bullets pushed past the limits of their design. Generally I've found that with an elk, I've had less than 4lbs lost per shoulder, when using a tsx and breaking bones.


Better to have to trim one quarter, than lose all 4.......

[Fisher-Dude]

I'd venture to say I have killed more elk with Corelokts back in the day than I have with a 'better' bullet like the TTSX ;)


Yeah me too. CoreLokts fed our family for 40+ years.

The global warming/Chernobyl/Mt Polley hides on the current super animals out there must be screaming for Super-Ultra-Copper-Klingcore-Shock (also known by its acronym, SUCKS) bullets.

Any elk shot thru the lungs with the current selection of <$50 factory bullets will kill 'em dead. Shot placement is the only variable that may result in a lost animal, IMO.

[Sniperdan]

I generally fling 168 tsx's as fast as possible with my 300 Ultra for elk, and always shoot for bone. The last 5 elk shot with it, resulted in one moderately buggered front quarter (from this years bull) where impact velocity would have been upwards of 3400fps.

I would call that 19.5 quarters out of a possible 20 recovered, with those bullets pushed past the limits of their design. Generally I've found that with an elk, I've had less than 4lbs lost per shoulder, when using a tsx and breaking bones.


Better to have to trim one quarter, than lose all 4.......

Mostly I shoot deer, so that is what I was referring to. Note to self....shoot elk and moose in the shoulder!

[.264winmag]

Seen that with the xp3 in .270, junk. You'd think I'm sponsored by Berger or something the way I promote the VLD but it plain kills everything it hits instantly. No tracking ever, lost a couple pounds of sausage here and there but nothing walks away from a Berger! I still have a .270 that shoots the federal fusion well, used it quite a bit on game with excellent results as well. The only factory ammo I'll buy and it's cheap.

[Rackmastr]

Mostly I shoot deer, so that is what I was referring to. Note to self....shoot elk and moose in the shoulder!

I shoot everything in the shoulder, and often end up with very very minimal meat damage. Including a little antelope last week and a Stone's sheep this year with very minimal meat damage (less than a couple lbs easily)

[tikkahunter]

I shoot Barnes TTSX 150gr with my Tikka T3 7mm Rem Mag. Haven't been disappointed yet.

[Gateholio]

I would use no heavier than 165gr ttsx in a 30/06.

Never tried the xp3 bullets so no comment on how they work.

[Wentrot]

I use 150 grain ttsx for my 30-06 and have no complaints-Will continue using!

[Bugle M In]

shot placement in my opinion is the major factor.
I shoot XP3 with no problem.
XP 3 150 gr .270 Win for elk but shhhhhhhh!....don't tell anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Taken 10 Elk with that rifle.
Did BUY 300 Win Mag this season, but never had opportunity to shoot it this time around.
Using Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Tip 180gr, but will hit the range with a few other loads to see which shots best for me.
Hitting bone was a great comment...bullet will do it's job better for sure!

[goatdancer]

If you want to go to 180s, Nosler Partitions work great.

[goinghunting]

I agree shot placement is #1 importance but would like to hear guys opinions on bullets from heavy game (elk, moose, grizz) compared to lighter game (deer, sheep etc)

My opinion is a bullet like a barnes that really holds together for heavy game and a bullet that doesnt hold together quite as well like a berger for lighter game.

[Bugle M In]

the Failsafe took down a lot of elk but was only 140 gr.
only problem with 270 was at longer ranges the bullet didn't pass thru and thru, usually hanging up in the opposite side in the hide.
switched to 150 xp3 for that reason, but haven't tested it long range.

[.264winmag]

I shot them fail safes too years ago out a .270, found they didn't open up enough.

[250 sav]

those failsafes pinhole if you don't hit bone, saw a 4 point mule deer shot 7 times in the chest and 3 in neck by two of buddies shooting 180 gr win black talon out of a300 win mag. the lungs had friggin pin holes in them 5 holes in the lungs and it was still going till the one them took out the spine

[NHRA6002]

If you want to go to 180s, Nosler Partitions work great.

X2 on the 180 partition. Last moose didn't get to take a step. In one side of the skull and out the other side.

That was a true "bang, flop"

[Scotty-B]

165 gr. or 180 gr. Partitions. Hands down.

[Bugle M In]

Nosler partitions have always had a great reputation for sure!
Just that the lead tip always get squished etc.
I'm sure up to 200 yrds it makes little difference.
If you are diligent, you can always reshape the tip to keep them pointy.
Or just don't cycle your ammo when removing them from rifle.

One thing, make sure you try what ever you choose out at the range first, and try a few different types.
Some rifles, such as my Husky 270, shoot awesome with some ammo, and like crap with others at even 100 yrds.
Having a great bullet is one thing, having a rifle that shoots that load well is equally as important.
You need both to make it work in my opinion.

[Spy]

Bullet placement
https://www.google.ca/search?q=picture+elk+anatomy&client=safari&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YNg0VKGqNseboQSXqoIo&ved=0CCgQ7Ak&biw=480&bih=268

[boxhitch]

Sniperdan ,
What weight XP3 were you using ? 150's may open to soon on elk to get max penetration ?
And did you wait at all before going after the bulls ? Charged up on adreneline they can go a long ways , if they had good leakage and left to expire peacefully they may be closer to find .

[Mikey Rafiki]

A bullet high in the lungs will allow the elk to bleed a couple gallons internally before it spills out, giving the bull a chance to get a fair distance before seeing a blood trail and giving the blood a chance to start clotting before it leaks. I had that issue with the elk I got with a crossbow this year. Light blood trail, but it only made it 80 yards, bedded down, then died. Opened it up a a river of blood came out.

If I didn't see a good blood trail right away but knew it was still a shot to the vitals I would just stay put and give it an hour or so to hopefully bed down and expire rather than chasing a blood trail and bumping the elk.

[elkaholk]

Hmm 4 pages and no mention of hornady sst or gmx bullets.. I've used both in my. 30-06 . Both work very well. The gmx retains 95% of its weight when it opens up.. very devastating performance. The sst's don't retain as much weight as the gmx's but do open up very nicely

[.264winmag]

I use the Bergers on everything. Even a grizz at 400yds out a .300h&h with 185grain, went less than 20 yds. Elk, moose they all fall over one shot in close and out far. I do try to stay away from hitting hard bone inside of 100 yds but outside that they pound through shoulders and keep on trucking. Damage to vitals is unreal. If the animal falls over who cares how much the bullet retains/weighs? I'll take expansion over weight retention every time. Did shoot the accubond for a while with great success too, seems like a nice happy medium. Federal fusion are bonded as well with great results.

[Sniperdan]

Sniperdan ,
What weight XP3 were you using ? 150's may open to soon on elk to get max penetration ?
And did you wait at all before going after the bulls ? Charged up on adreneline they can go a long ways , if they had good leakage and left to expire peacefully they may be closer to find .

I am using 180's. Yes I waited, then spent at least 40 min just looking for blood in the open and fringes where the elk was standing when shot before finally entering the brush. Due to the darkness and lack of blood we did not venture too far into the bush before we decided to pull back and return in the morning.

[Sniperdan]

I use the Bergers on everything. Even a grizz at 400yds out a .300h&h with 185grain, went less than 20 yds. Elk, moose they all fall over one shot in close and out far. I do try to stay away from hitting hard bone inside of 100 yds but outside that they pound through shoulders and keep on trucking. Damage to vitals is unreal. If the animal falls over who cares how much the bullet retains/weighs? I'll take expansion over weight retention every time. Did shoot the accubond for a while with great success too, seems like a nice happy medium. Federal fusion are bonded as well with great results.

I don't hand load, it doesn't appear that Bergers are available in factory loads?

[elkaholk]

150gr gmx stopped my cow moose, last year,
dead at 300 yards with full pass through and a wicked wound track.. factory loaded hornady superformance .30-06..
I believe that weight retention is more important to deliver the most energy possible. The byproduct is the deformation of the bullet as it impacts the animal.. I personally try to find what shoots best out my gun and worry more about shot placement over bullet weight or type..

[Bugle M In]

I am using 180's. Yes I waited, then spent at least 40 min just looking for blood in the open and fringes where the elk was standing when shot before finally entering the brush. Due to the darkness and lack of blood we did not venture too far into the bush before we decided to pull back and return in the morning.
Sadly, it happens from time to time.
Happened to me as well 6 or 7 years ago.
Situation sounds similar, and the next day the blood trail just slowly stopped.
If you hunt long enough, and have opportunities, this situation will happen, an unfortunate fact.
It's bothersome...but it will happen.
Best to learn from it, and try to make the outcome different next time around.
Most people I know have all had one similar incident like yours.

[abbyfireguy]

Find someone to hand load for you. Barnes TTSX in 165 gr are my new load in my 300 WSM. Shoot drop dead accurate.
i did use 168 gr TTSX until this year. Two bull moose both took two steps before dropping. Both shot through lungs.
The 165's may shoot better out of the 30-06.
Buy the components and someone on here will help you reload.

[eaglesnester]

Lots and lots of good bullets available. A couple of years ago there was a fella that did some extensive research on this vary thing. He used animal carcass to do his testing. He tested every bullet offering in common use at different distances. What he came up with was: The Remington PSP cor-lock outperformed all other bullets on the market as far as mushrooming and performance envelope. This bullet had the widest envelope of any commercial offering in common use on the market. It stayed together up close mushroomed beautifully and continued to mushroom long after others failed to do so or only mushroomed a little. This is not my opinion, the results were published on the web and I am merely passing on the info as I remember it. When it was first on the net it was free, the author has since started charging for it. What is more important than bullet performance is, as we all know, is bullet placement.

[wlbc]

I am aware that asking this question is like asking which truck or quad to buy, but I really want to see if there is any type of consensus out there regarding bullets. You see, a couple of years ago I switched to the Winchester XP3 after reading some reviews on it. This is a very sexy bullet and I especially loved the fact that I could load and unload my gun many times without damaging the tip (unlike the soft points of many other bullets that end up all deformed after chambering a few times).

Here is my dilemma, last year I shot an elk and for the first time in my life I had to track a blood trail further than only a few dozen yards. Actually I followed it for many many hours and was never able to recover the animal. This was especially difficult for me and I lost a lot of sleep due to the guilt of having an animal out there suffering at my hand. I chalked it up to possibly pulling when I took the shot and maybe just didn't make a good enough shot even though it felt good. Fast forward to this year where I ended up in a similar scenario. I took an easy 70 yard shot on an elk right behind the shoulder into the boiler room and off it went into the trees. I was confident in the shot but there was no blood on the gravel where it was standing when I shot. Still confident I headed into the trees expecting to find it lying there somewhere...no luck as darkness rapidly descended. Four of us searched with flashlights for any sign of blood with no luck. We decided to return first thing in the morning. Next morning at first light we returned and set off into the brush searching in a grid pattern. It took us a while but we finally found blood and there was a lot of it. It appears the elk ran about 150 yards through the thick brush before it even started bleeding. So we followed the blood for many hours until we came to a spot where the elk had rolled around in the dirt and struggled to get back up. We thought for sure we had to be getting close. Problem is, rolling in the dirt ended the blood trail and no matter how hard we looked, we could not pick it up again. So once again, I am left feeling guilty and now I am questioning my bullet choice. Both times I know I connected in the boiler room, both times there was blood and it was bright red, both times there was not enough damage to put the animal down. And now I am looking for a new bullet choice.

So here is my question; What is the best bullet to use in a 30-06 to take down Deer, Elk and Moose that will also retain it's shape when chambered multiple times. I am currently leaning toward the Barnes Triple Shock.

Dan,

I'm thinking shot placement may be more important here than bullet type. However, first bullet and cartridge type.

I would stick with your 3006. Plenty of snoot for elk. I like 180 grn swift AFrames, or Nosler Partitions. I have had excellent results with both. Having said that, before I started handloading I had excellent results with Federal Fusions and the basic Federal Blue box. I like the extra weight of the 180's but 165's should be fine too.

I will offer this for consideration... Be careful about behind the shoulder shots because if the bullet is too far back the animal can go for a good long while with almost no blood trail even though it is going to die from it's lungs slowly filling with blood. I like to try and shoot right under the shoulder joint if the angle allows as this usually catches a piece of rib and drives it through the lungs and often tears part of the heart up too.

[boblly1]

I just came back from Quesnel and I'll tell you this that my standard 270 win with 160 grain Nosler partition and 52 grains IMR 4831had no trouble breaking the neck of a 4 year old bull moose at 400 plus yards

[BRrooster]

Choose your bullets for what you want them to do. I wonder , do they make Partitions for 30-30's.

[nelsonob1]

Absolutely nothing wrong wit either the 30 06, or the XP3. Great combination for hunting elk.

Sometimes it comes down to a little luck, or in some cases a little unlucky. Deer and elk have an extraordinary ability sometimes just to run and keep going.

[Hunter325]

I have used the winchester xp3 bullet in a 30-06 180 gr. I don't think I would use them ever again I have had many of the primers blow out of the case and cause a jam. I have also used the xp3 200 gr in 325 wsm and the box had about 5 tips busted off. Before I even used them. For the 30-06 my dad and I have had great luck with federal fusion, winchester soft point, Barnes vortex ttsx, & fed blue box. All 180 grain have shot plenty of bull moose with those few boxes of shells. Just thought I'd share my experience.

[BCBRAD]

Big animals and the 30-06, try a 200gr Accubond. It is a 500yard set up if you start them out at 2700fps (routinely get hits on a 6" gong at 550yds under ideal conditions). My 6X Leupold LR scope regulates this bullet at 200yds at the +, 300,400 yards the first two dots and 500yds for the post. Carries ~ 20% more energy then the 165-8gr bullets and reliably extends the '06 useful range another couple hundred yards. All this aids in shot placement with excellent terminal performance. Inside 300yds most any modern bullet will do.

[gwes2003]

Barnes TTSX, Federal copper or Trophy bonded tip all 160-180gr will do the trick. But only is you get them in the vitals

[BChunter]

After the shot, give the animal ten minutes or more even if you feel good about the placement. Often they have no idea what hurt them, travel a short distance and go into shock. Ten-fifteen minutes they will haemorrhage enough to probably stay down. Also, if you can,t find the animal, find a dog, use a leash, it's legal. Any mutt will sniff the blood blindfolded!

[hunting]

Choose your bullets for what you want them to do. I wonder , do they make Partitions for 30-30's.
Yes they do.
Nosler 30 Caliber 170 Grain Round Nose Partition Bullets