Help Design the Best Fillet Knife

[North Arm Knives]

Hello everyone,

We will soon be designing our next knife model, which will be a filleting knife. We've always found it difficult to find good ones ourselves and know that many others have the same problem. We'd like your input on what should and should not be part of the design! Check out this post from our website (http://northarmknives.com/best-fillet-knife/) to get an idea of what type of information we need from you. With your help we hope to design the best fillet knife you've ever laid hands on!

Thanks,

Mike and John

[Sofa King]

sharp, holds an edge and takes one easily.
grippy, yet easy to clean the slime off.
and is just that perfect length, having just the right amount of flexibility and strength.

[Sofa King]

and maybe a pretty, colourful end on the handle that also makes it buoyant.

[adriaticum]

I have 2 fillet knives. One is a 6 inch Shakespeare and a 10 inch Rapala teflon coated.
Shakespeare feels very nice in the hand but its too short and doesn't hold the edge well.
I like to use it for small fish but its proving too small in many cases.
So I use the 10 inch rapala mostly now.
Rapala is not as flexible but the edge holds well and I never needed to sharpen it for several years now.
But the shape is a bit awkward.
I think a fillet knife should be about 9 inches long have a flexible thin blade that holds the edge well.
Edge retention is more important than ability to take an edge easily. Fillet knives are not meant to last forever so a thin blade would be ideal for slicing.
I think the shape of the blade should be like a katana since we know that design is very efficient at slicing.
I haven't seen any knives like that around though.

[North Arm Knives]

Thanks for the good points guys!

[adriaticum]

What I have.
http://images2.opticsplanet.com/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-shakespeare-6in-fillet-knife-ss-blade-blue-and-gray-rubberized-sure-grip-handle-shk3499-main.jpg

http://www.tacklewarehouse.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/300x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/0/2/02003749_3381270.jpg

What I would like to have.

http://www.cmstatic1.com/10353/10353.134118.jpg

[North Arm Knives]

@ adriaticum: I hear ya, I spent the longest time filleting with a $10 Shakespeare and it was always a disappointing experience (had to touch it up every few fish)

[Sasqman]

This is the one I have had for over a year............super happy with it.

http://www.cutco.ca/products/product.jsp?itemGroup=5721#.VAkc5Gd0zL8

Many fish and goose have been dressed with this one..............just did 2 - 36" ling cod with it, no problem.
The feature I like best is the blade adjusts from 6" to 9", and it has a great warranty on it.
Its a little pricy, but well worth the dollars.

Paul

[srupp]

Hmm have 2 favorite fillet knives the one for trout is very flexible..very..takes a wicked edge..will take some photos and size..
I had a bunch of hali to fillet a couple weeks ago for a group of 6 fisher persons..went to my Global flexible deboning knife..couple strokes per fillet..great tools dont overcome lack of skill or knowlege however in the correct hands they sure make the job easier..
The edge should be the eastern style one long angle not the european style of micro edges used in meat..
Woul be intersted in the build and perhaps ordering one..
Srupp

[srupp]

Hmm the global boning knife is model G-21 flexible..specs are readibly available
The other is Shrade Uncle Henry 167 steelhead knife....03 thickness near tip...05 inch about halfway..
.o76 at thickest..12 inches overall length..blade is7 inches long..blade is .639 widest part of blade..
The steel in the Global is the best..imo..cromova 18 ss..

Cheers
Steven

[srupp]

Hmmm as for that blade sharpening...Japanese are renowned for their love of fish and their blades..
Check out knife sharpening with Mino Tsuchida wher he explains the eastern style of sharpening versus European..this edge with the shape and size of the shrade 167 uncle Henry fillet knifr made from the crome ss that the Global g 21 is made from..as for handle material hmmmm
There would be a great knife...balance is crucial also.. the Global handle has sand inside for perfect balance...the fancy blue artwork portrayed would be a nice touch to exceptional shape, edge, thickness flex and ss features and a wicked Mino Tsuchida edge...ya pretty much perfect..
Cheers
Steven

Ps I used the global knife on my 14 pound rainbow this spring...a little too firm lacking just that fine flexibility of the Shrade...however on 40 pound hali..wicked

[North Arm Knives]

Thanks for the responses everyone! keep them coming :D

[srupp]

Hmmm great project...and so totaly different than a survival knife..ie Bog Dog in d2 steel..or a good..great boning knife ie global..or a skinning knife or caping knife...
It would be great if you kept us updated of progress..ive always been a knife junky...gave 2 away this month..
Im sure the outcome will be great...remember Im always willing to be a Beta tester..lol
Thanks for getting our imput and taking the time to get us involved..looking forward to your new fillet knife..
Cheers
Steven

[new hunter]

when I was able to make knives at work on my breaks , my last one had cross cut black walnut with steel pins .
I notices ( accidentally ) that the cross cut wood really gripped your hand when it was wet , like the exposed end grains would suction cup to your hand , even though I sanded to 2000grit and oiled it a lot .
I think if I were to make a filet knife I would go with that same wood , but I would use brass pins , with one nice but simple mosaic pin in the middle and a simple flat brass guard ( not really a guard , the brass cap between the wood and blade , but stream lined to the shape of the handle ).
I was trying to pull off a clay tempered hamon line ( I came close but never got a really clear colour change were the hardness zones met , I think I needed to remove more decarbonised steel prior to etching ).
If your company can pull off a hamon line , I would do one , but with a gentle wave pattern reflecting the gentle waves of a lake or stream ( not like the stereo typical ones you see on cheap katanas ).
For the grind I would do a one sided grind like you see on Japanese Knives ( the chefs in our hotel resterant use them ) to round out the Asian appearance of the blade .
I wouldn't want the knife to look like it was all Japanese influence , to round out the appearance I would make the handle with an exposed tang down the spine of the handle , simple pins like I mentioned earlier and simple flat brass caps on both ends of the handle , to look more north American .

[srupp]

Hmmm I would suggest the material used on the Bog Dog d2 knife handle...its rubber like a truck tire totally non slip even with blood and water...thought its material was resperine ?
Blades can be too long....
Srupp

[North Arm Knives]

Hmmm I would suggest the material used on the Bog Dog d2 knife handle...its rubber like a truck tire totally non slip even with blood and water...thought its material was resperine ?
Blades can be too long....
Srupp

Thanks for all the input steven! We will definitely post updates as they happen. Design will likely start later this week.

-mike

[longstonec]

So far, my favourite fillet knife is made by Dunn, out of the US, http://www.dunnknives.com/filletknives.html

Fairly hard steel, so takes abit to be shaving with it, but then a daily stropping and it will stay razor sharp.

I dont like very soft knives, for comparison the wood handled Rapalas are about as soft as I like to go in a fillet knife. majority of the cutting is done with just the tip exept for cutting behind the gill plate, and on salmon cutting through the spine to keep the tail on one side.

When cutting i dont have much of my hand on the actual handle, I hold choked up on the blade for the majority of the time and have never had any issues with any of the different kinds of handles out there. some have grooves for your fingers which is silly, cause who has the same size fingers anyways.

-fairly hard steel
-medium to firm flex is what I have in my head would be the flex of the blade would be called
-7"-9" length
-Wood handle (I like wood stocks, and handles, and grips more then synthetic) Native to BC wood would be very neat
-a 3/16" hole at end of grip that a dummy loop can be put through for people working over water
-option to buy without a sheath
-In the summer we process quite a few fish everyday and would be happy to try out any prototypes and provide with lots of feedback. Usualy have two dedicated fish cleaners who figure out what they like fairly quickly, and a chef or two.

[longstonec]

I just asked one and she said the following

"
tough to describe. med flex, flex evenly along the blade so that if you apply pressure against the tip the curve is consistant all the way along. 6 or 7" blade (I think 7 is standard. so far I like the Anglers Choice handles because they've got finger grooves on em. too big for me, but at least gives it some texture so if your hand is bloody and slimey its still got some grip"

[steel_ram]

Long continuous curve on the blade so the fillet can be cut in one stroke to prevent hacks. Grippy when slimed handle that is bright and floats.

[North Arm Knives]

After consolidating everyone's feedback we've have finally started design on the Fillet knife today! We spent the morning drawing up a few different rough 2-D profiles in CAD. This afternoon we'll mill some of these out of thin plywood to get a better idea of how they look and feel in the hand. This is part of our standard prototyping process. Next we'll discuss/apply changes and repeat the process.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15104353220_e25f3d3342_n.jpg

More updates coming soon!

-Mike & John

[SeaScene]

My filet procedure is to cut one side and then flip over and down the other side of the backbone cutting through the bone. I de-bone once cooked or while eating. My 9" $30 rapala does ok but the cut hesitates slicing through the bone. Just wondering if a serated edge would be better?

[North Arm Knives]

My filet procedure is to cut one side and then flip over and down the other side of the backbone cutting through the bone. I de-bone once cooked or while eating. My 9" $30 rapala does ok but the cut hesitates slicing through the bone. Just wondering if a serated edge would be better?


I actually do the same (cut through the rib bones and remove them with the fillet). Then I separate them by running the knife right under the bones. I find there is less waste of meat this way. With a good sharp thin knife the bones aren't an issue (at least on smaller fish like pink sockeye and coho.) With a big spring I could see how cutting though the bones may become more difficult (but then I'd probably fillet the conventional way by leaving the rib bones on the backbone).

We aren't considering a serrated edge because it wouldn't cut flesh as cleanly. Sort of like using a saw to fillet.

We've had someone suggest that we serrate the first 1-2" of the blade (at the heel) so that the knife can chop through the back bone. This isn't what fillet knives are for! We'd recommended the use of a chef's knife, cleaver, or belt knife for cutting the heads off of fish

The steel we use in our knives (CPM S35VN) holds an edge wayyy better than what you see in factory made knives, once its sharp it will cut through those rib bones no problem and keep doing it for many fish (if you touch it up here and there on a steel or something similar). If you fillet without cutting through the bones you'll see even better edge retention because while fish bones aren't super hard, they do wear the edge down faster than flesh alone would.

-mike

[BRvalley]

what is the expected price point?

[North Arm Knives]

what is the expected price point?
It is too early to say because there are many undetermined variables (steel thickness etc.) When we have a better idea we will post up some information regarding price point.

[North Arm Knives]

We did a couple more sets of wooden profiles (with tweaks between each set.) Then yesterday we milled the first set of steel knives which I began grinding bevels into today! Below is a progression from Design, to CNC programming to milling of the first steel knives.

2d Design in CAD
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2944/15345219212_32252aa061_c.jpg

CNC coding in CAM (creating tool paths for the CNC mill)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3858/15345525275_510344307c_c.jpg

Milling!

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2943/15158773509_19902db26e_c.jpg

4 designs profiled ready to hand grind

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2942/15165315819_8a70dcaeaf_c.jpg

[North Arm Knives]

We heat treated the first 4 steel fillet knife prototypes on friday! Will be finish grinding a couple of them this morning before heading out for some testing :mrgreen: on the Fraser this afternoon!




https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3891/15206830869_6f34e34bab_c.jpg

-mike

[North Arm Knives]

Finished up some wooden handles for the knives this morning, now we're coating them with a finish to make them waterproof. The finish will dry over night and then testing can start in earnest!

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3927/15228259807_6dacee92ef_z.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3928/15411627171_35e6182264_z.jpg

[North Arm Knives]

We've had two threads going on this project, I'm consolidating it to a single thread. If you want to follow this subscribe to the thread in the link below!
Thanks!
-mike
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?109866-Tired-of-crappy-fillet-knives-Help-us-Design-a-better-one!&p=1547967#post1547967

[northernsculler]

Maybe this is a stupid question but of all the knives I sharpen the ones I hate sharpening the most are stainless. Most fillet knives seem to be stainless. Any chance your making some with a good carbon steel that will razor up easily.

[North Arm Knives]

Maybe this is a stupid question but of all the knives I sharpen the ones I hate sharpening the most are stainless. Most fillet knives seem to be stainless. Any chance your making some with a good carbon steel that will razor up easily.

Replied to your question on the other thread. (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?109866-Tired-of-crappy-fillet-knives-Help-us-Design-a-better-one!/page5)