Apology to those who I may have offended .Lets talk about any buck season, Kamloops

[Kami]

Earlier thread closed. Good. Sorry about that.
My apologies for remarks pertaining to hunters who choose to shoot a spike mule deer.
I bet they do taste awesome. It's legal and in your right to shot one if you choose.
It's not my business to discriminate those who shoot a spiker.

I have had many spikers, 2 pt and 3 point deer in my crosshairs lined up for a perfect shot.
I choose to let them walk. I am the one who has waited for a decent 4 point to cross paths with.
Been several years now with no venison in the freezer. I am disciplined, and determined,
and hunt right to closing day in the snow and cold from dawn to dusk. It will eventually happen.
I get that you have to overlook a ton of other deer before you find the booner.

lately I have been starting to second guess my 4 pt focus. Starting to
think 2 point jerky is gonna taste pretty good this year. Sometimes I tend to think the "any buck"
season around Kamloops really cuts down on all the future 4 pt deer. I could use some education
about the any buck season. Is it allowed as we have a cull on deer around here? Too many?
Might as let everyone take any buck? What would happen to all the deer if we only had 4 pt
or bigger all hunting season? They'd die off naturally? Ecosystem cannot support? I suppose there
would be lots of complaints from those who want to keep "any buck" season open.
What would happen naturally if we let them all grow to 4 pt? I am all ears....

[olympia]

that's a good question, im all ears as well. I like to see others point of view as well. What would happen if we went 4pt only just for a couple seasons to let everyone grow up a bit more?

[000buck]

S'all good my man, I don't think anyone should be " offended" by the previous thread but it's closed and gone. Happy hunting

[olympia]

hey I just read the post you were referring to and it kinda appears as though you are trying to stir the pot. So what is your frustrations? im all ears, what else do you hunt besides deer. I noticed you may drop your standard to 2 pts soon if you don't get your 4 pt, are you hunting for meat or for a story to tell the office buddies how you got the booner of a lifetime. Most of the guys that hunt on this forum do so for hormone free food, they are more concerned about conservation than most PITA types who drive gas guzzling jeep Cherokees and choke back burgers.

[Foxton Gundogs]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgbPeel2Jt3vNV3AVV4AvhbBhMLSsPl gcMg6dMhCXYC3VfnKMO (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=75QuSWdr6X1OyM&tbnid=Dxzr1GITTwXI3M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neozaz.com%2Fpass-the-popcorn%2F&ei=0jvsU8nYLqe9igLStoCADA&bvm=bv.72938740,d.cGE&psig=AFQjCNEFWWgwAfsaIxG-GcHHXoqWENfVUg&ust=1408077095330509)

[Kami]

Not trying to stir the pot sorry if I came across that way. I have decided not to talk further about my frustration mentioned. I have hunted deer moose and elk. I like the meat.
No gas guzzling jeep driver here. I like hunting and the challenges it brings. I enjoy stalking animals in the bush. I love the outdoors and nature. Hunting is a great sport that gives me another reason to be out there. I respect a mature buck, how smart he might have been to live as long as he has, achieving a nice full rack. My family will happily eat an entire deer. For some reason I like the challenge. I would like a decent 4 pt and am gonna work hard for it, enjoying every last piece of hormone free meat on the BBQ.

[250 sav]

I love it when they fill their tags in October then they are done and it reduces the number of people out when I'm hunting in November.

[Kami]

I wonder if we had 4 pt only all season, would the masses keep hunting in the snow into Nov & Dec to try and bag one? Would they still hang up their rifles at the end of Oct and go without if they
did not shoot one? I agree that there are way less hunters out there it seems from Nov to close.

[Everett]

To properly manage a deer heard you need to shoot all age levels of bucks if you only target certain age groups you damage your future herd. This is all well known scientific management of deer herd. Do a search on this site and you will find out more than you can imagine.

[showtime]

To each their own right? Don't judge.

[Trojans16]

I wonder if we had 4 pt only all season, would the masses keep hunting in the snow into Nov & Dec to try and bag one? Would they still hang up their rifles at the end of Oct and go without if they
did not shoot one? I agree that there are way less hunters out there it seems from Nov to close.

Is way less hunters a good thing for deer or a good thing for you?

[mikeboehm]

Yup to each there own. I shoot the first buck I see for meat. After ill wait. If my freezer is full im done hunting for the year.

[warnniklz]

The spike mule deer... I like holding out for deer that are bigger. But if I translate that to moose, a calf would be perfect size for me... so what's wrong with someone shooting a spiker?

[Kami]

Never really thought about if less hunters were good for the deer or me. I am pointing out that there seems to be fewer people out in the bush around Kamloops, hunting once the snow flies in the hills.
I personally like seeing less people out there in nature. I suppose because it seems to increase my chances of spotting wild animals. It seems to allow me to feel closer to nature. Are less hunters out there good for the deer? I can't say. I suppose a wildlife biologist could let me know. Depends I assume what they are trying to accomplish in terms of game management in the MU.

[6pt_elk_wannabe]

We'll see how the 4 point only seasons plays out for the koots and 8-12/14. Only hunting open to any buck is now bow opener and youth season.

[monasheemountainman]

I don't think you offended many people but I think the majority including me are passionate about what our legal rights as hunters are. If I were native and allowed to hunt now you can bet your ass I'd be hunting because it is what I love to do. I also personally haven't bought red meat at the grocery store for 3 + years so that is another reason why I enjoy my right to fill my freezer with what I am legally allowed to harvest. I think that's mainly why you may have gotten some flak from the previous thread. Cheers and good hunting!

[Singleshotneeded]

I've shot a few big bucks in my time, these days I like to go out with my young lad and we generally shoot forks and up...it's about being out there, the camaraderie, teaching my son what he needs to know to be successful, and the beauty of B.C.. Everyone have a great season and enjoy yourselves out there...good luck!

[Fisher-Dude]

Is way less hunters a good thing for deer or a good thing for you?

Bingo!

Hunters often confuse what's good for them versus what is good for the deer.

Any buck season is good for the deer. 4 point season is good for those who know nothing about the deer.

[limit time]

Earlier thread closed. Good. Sorry about that.
My apologies for remarks pertaining to hunters who choose to shoot a spike mule deer.
I bet they do taste awesome. It's legal and in your right to shot one if you choose.
It's not my business to discriminate those who shoot a spiker.

I have had many spikers, 2 pt and 3 point deer in my crosshairs lined up for a perfect shot.
I choose to let them walk. I am the one who has waited for a decent 4 point to cross paths with.
Been several years now with no venison in the freezer. I am disciplined, and determined,
and hunt right to closing day in the snow and cold from dawn to dusk. It will eventually happen.
I get that you have to overlook a ton of other deer before you find the booner.

lately I have been starting to second guess my 4 pt focus. Starting to
think 2 point jerky is gonna taste pretty good this year. Sometimes I tend to think the "any buck"
season around Kamloops really cuts down on all the future 4 pt deer. I could use some education
about the any buck season. Is it allowed as we have a cull on deer around here? Too many?
Might as let everyone take any buck? What would happen to all the deer if we only had 4 pt
or bigger all hunting season? They'd die off naturally? Ecosystem cannot support? I suppose there
would be lots of complaints from those who want to keep "any buck" season open.
What would happen naturally if we let them all grow to 4 pt? I am all ears....
Three deer a year, lots of time for meat and "trophy". Are you looking for rack size? Or a BIG OLD mature buck? Not all bucks will grow to four point status, no matter how long they live.
What do you base you four point deer on? What I'm asking is, will any four point do?
ps: I'm a meat hunter first ;)

[BigfishCanada]

Im a meat eater, although i passed on many small bucks last year I ended up with only regret in the fridge. BUT more important, in washington state where they had implemented a 4pt only area, my friend has noticed some sort of evolution, the big deer are only growing 2-3 points. 4 points are disappearing. I was only told this so cant verify

[OutWest]

Im a meat eater, although i passed on many small bucks last year I ended up with only regret in the fridge. BUT more important, in washington state where they had implemented a 4pt only area, my friend has noticed some sort of evolution, the big deer are only growing 2-3 points. 4 points are disappearing. I was only told this so cant verify

That's what happens with 4 point seasons. They do not develop more mature bucks, and they do not make more deer. Lose/lose.

[BiG Boar]

It sounds as though you love hunting but really have zero idea about conservation and wildlife management. You should start educating yourself about it and in future threads you won't sound like such a twit. Trophy hunting is fine by me, but that's not only what hunting is about.

[ElliotMoose]

The whitetail population is on the rise in this province and fast. Go drop a nice young 2 pt whitey for the freezer and then spend the rest of the season chasing that big boy! I prefer whitetail over mule deer anyways

[Darksith]

just because you don't shoot the little deer doesn't directly equal more bigger deer later. Thats it in a nutshell. There won't be more trophies running around simply b/c you remove the any buck season. The big racks are generally on 6 year old deer roughly. A 4 point can be a 3 year old deer. Its not healthy for a population if you simply try to remove only the mature deer. There is way more info but thats the main factors in the theory of management and its been proven out. Where is Dana when you need him or GG...

[boxhitch]

its all in the search function

peachlandsportsmen.com/muledeerantlerpointrestrictions.pdf

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?102105-Close-any-buck-general-open-seasons-in-the-East-Okanagan-and-Kootenays/page4&highlight=mule+deer+biology

[Weatherby Fan]

It's quite obvious from your posts you want a 4 point and better season to remove hunters from the bush so you can see more animals, your not the least bit interested in whats best for the deer only whats best to better your odds of shooting a whopper four point,
Every year there's a few of you uneducated sorts show up on here blaming the any buck season for your shortcomings of not being able see a four point let alone shoot one.............

I know first hand as I used to be that guy that thought a four point only season was better...........but I was open minded enough to read and learn whats best for the deer......not whats best for me........Thanks again GoatGuy

[bc_buckshot]

No worries..Good intentions, bad delivery...Give you 6.5/10..still wanna see pics or didnt happen..

Nothing wrong with shooting a younger buck. I have shot a 9 inch spike before in late Region 2 and that thing tasted better than most deer.Try to to set yourself up so high and just enjoy...That way you won't have to re-new your costco card this winter

[Ozone]

...it's about being out there, the camaraderie, teaching my son what he needs to know to be successful, and the beauty of B.C.

This is how I see it also. To me shooting the deer is secondary. What it has on top of its head is way down the list as I don't eat those parts. But to each there own.

[d6dan]

Bingo!
Any buck season is good for the deer. 4 point season is good for those who know nothing about the deer.

Well said Pat.

[Wild one]

4pt early and late seasons are not that busy plus these are better times to hunt bucks in my opinion. Oct they are spread out and pressure can be high

See no benefit going straight 4pt for the whole season and it would be bad for genetics. Doing away with the 4pt restriction, a shorter overall deer season, and a lower BC mule deer bag limit I would support. Spread the pressure out over the season instead of Oct gong show.

But most would not agree with my opinion

As things are now you have to search for the areas other pass by and you will find more bucks and less hunters

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm still surprised that so many seem not to be able to get a deer.

I think those who are complaining just aren't very good hunters. Most are in too big a rush to even see deer.

I've told the story before about the two trucks + one quad group of guys, 8 guys in total I believe, who were bombing around looking for deer and moose. My buddy and I met them, they turned around and headed out in front of us. A few hundred yards down the road (we are behind them, and they just passed this spot twice now), we spy a nice buck feeding in an open cut. My buddy gets out and nails it while the 8 guys stop and watch, wondering why we stopped.

The 8 guys never saw it, even after driving by it twice. That's 16 eyes times 2 drives past the deer = 32 eyes missing a mule deer buck standing in a clearcut 150 yards off the road at 10 am on a clear day. WTF?

No amount of antler restrictions will help those 8 guys fill their tags.

[limit time]

I'm still surprised that so many seem not to be able to get a deer.

I think those who are complaining just aren't very good hunters. Most are in too big a rush to even see deer.

I've told the story before about the two trucks + one quad group of guys, 8 guys in total I believe, who were bombing around looking for deer and moose. My buddy and I met them, they turned around and headed out in front of us. A few hundred yards down the road (we are behind them, and they just passed this spot twice now), we spy a nice buck feeding in an open cut. My buddy gets out and nails it while the 8 guys stop and watch, wondering why we stopped.

The 8 guys never saw it, even after driving by it twice. That's 16 eyes times 2 drives past the deer = 32 eyes missing a mule deer buck standing in a clearcut 150 yards off the road at 10 am on a clear day. WTF?

No amount of antler restrictions will help those 8 guys fill their tags.
And no reason to reduce mule deer to one, or shorten the season.

[steel_ram]

Hunting, spotting game actually takes some talent. Fancy trucks, quads and uber-magnums can't by that.

[Bugle M In]

haven't read all of the posts...
Try hunting when snow hits, and try to get out often.
I'm not saying snow has any factor in success, but will help you get to know an area.
Meaning, you will be able to see if sign is persistent, that deer are in fact hanging in the area, repeatedly day to day etc.

If the sign and rubs are there, than just hunt slowly, and hunt the same area for a few years if you can.
You will be surprised what you will find in the journey, getting to know special little area that never existed etc.

A GPS is great comfort when hiking, as you will venture further than normal for most people.


It took me years hunting the same area to only start to get to know some of the deer's hot spots so to speak.

Sometimes in the past I felt I had to walk miles to find them, but surprisingly of late, they are often not more than 500 yards away from my camper:shock:
So here I am hiking hell's half acre, and the deer are making " snow angels " beside my camp.:-D

Once you know the area and where they like to roam often, you will find more success I believe, and will have even better confidence when there is no snow etc,
which can make finding sign a little harder to find and interpret.

As for any buck, My opinion is that for some years it may lower the chance for hunter's who wish to seek 4pt's only ( Im talking 4pt's NOT Trophy size 4 pt's )
But than other years, if it was only 4 pt, deer may not be able to sustain themselves due to overpopulated conditions etc.
Basically a Ying and Yang effect in my opinion.

Wolves right now in a lot of the areas are not helping.
Also, side note, I found that this past season, due to wolves moving in a few years ago ( not ever there before then ), the deer seemed stayed closer to the roads,
as I think they felt safer nearer the hunter than the wolf, and that the wolves were more reluctant in the area to get to close to vehicle traffic etc.
( just my observation, my thought on the past couple of seasons, in my opinion...sure others will have observed different and have different thoughts and strategies.

Wish you all the best on the upcoming season and hope you find that 4 pt!
Cheers BMI

[Kami]

Some good posts here. Thanks folks. Some other posts I would like to comment further on.

It's quite obvious from your posts you want a 4 point and better season to remove hunters from the bush so you can see more animals, your not the least bit interested in whats best for the deer only whats best to better your odds of shooting a whopper four point,
Every year there's a few of you uneducated sorts show up on here blaming the any buck season for your shortcomings of not being able see a four point let alone shoot one.............

Sure I would like a 4 point and I am prepared to work hard to get it. No brownie points I suppose for showing restraint and letting several does, spikers, 2 pt and 3 pt deer walk? All legal to shoot. Maybe a junior hunter shot the 2pt the next day? Maybe grandpa Joe with arthritis in his knees got the spiker roadside the next week.

I am also about conservation. "Every year uneducated sorts show up here"...Well thats a good thing isn't it?
New hunters is what the Govt wants. It's what the sport needs. New hunters are actively being recruited. Where do you think would be a good place to post questions and get educated about hunting and wildlife management? How about a forum like this one with lots of experienced hunters?

I know first hand as I used to be that guy that thought a four point only season was better...........but I was open minded enough to read and learn whats best for the deer......not whats best for me........

You are assuming I am not open minded enough to learn what's best for the deer? Did you read my first post? I started this thread by apologizing for comments I made out of frustration. Then I began asking good, reasonable questions about 4 pt season. I asked for help in understanding the 4 pt only season. I wanted to hear from experienced hunters. I said I'm all ears. How does that show that I am not open minded and not pro-conservation?

It sounds as though you love hunting but really have zero idea about conservation and wildlife management. You should start educating yourself about it and in future threads you won't sound like such a twit. Trophy hunting is fine by me, but that's not only what hunting is about.

Again, I guess I must have been crazy thinking I could ask experienced hunters quality questions on the internet. So besides the CORE book, where else do the masses get taught about wildlife management and conservation? You go out there and find the info you are looking for. That's how I'd do it You have to go get it. It's not thrown at your door step every year like a phone book. Silly me, I should have done a search I guess. It's all here on Hunt BC right? All the earlier twits asked stupid questions and were answered already?

To some other posts here, more constructive, thanks. I do hunt hard and long days from opening day right to closing day. Many many hours walking, glassing, from dusk to dawn. Sitting in -15 wind and snow. I am the guy bitching because Tim's does not open until 5am, and I am well on my way. Yes I like to have my GPS with me. Yes I park my 4x4 and walk/hike for miles. Yes I eat what I shoot. Yes I agree with conservation. I also teach my kids to hunt. Good chance my son is gonna shoot a 4 pt before I do at the rate its going LOL. I do not know it all. I learn from others with experience. It would appear I need to learn a whole lot more about deer as I like to hunt during 4 pt season for a 4 pt. I recently learned 4 pt season is for those who know nothing about deer. Go figure.I guess I better go do more research.

[Bugle M In]

One thing that can 't be obtained is luck.
My Dad and a couple of my hunting partners also hunt hard like I do etc, but I just seem to be luckier at times it seems.
The 4 pt I took a year ago was just that, my buddy runs into a few deer, but cant get a shot off.
so we get together, split up, he goes a bit to the right, I go a ways to the left, and bingo, I'm doing the Mexican hat dance, and he's swearing the last 150 yrds back to me.
Also, I learned to pay attention to where other's park and hunt, if I see the same guys or vehicles in the same places eery year, then I have a good hunch its the place to hit when their gone.

Again,Good luck

[280 77]

Kami , if you do some research you will find that most areas that have implemented a 4 point only season have been counter-productive . Hunters are only allowed to legally harvest 4 points so all the bucks with good genetics get hammered ( not all bucks will grow into 4 points ) , leaving the inferior gene pool to breed . Many hunters just want to fill the freezer and in doing so leave the bucks with good genetics to breed another season .
I assume from your handle that you are from Kamloops . As has been stated on here before Region 3 has one of the most generous seasons in North America , yet continually produces some good bucks. If you do a search on this topic you will find a wealth of information that has already been discussed on this site.
Cheers and good luck in the upcoming season.

[Bugle M In]

Quite often people don't take the time for an apology when they are wrong etc, but what also amazes me time and time again is how some do not know how to ACCEPT an apology.
Even the best here get into heated debates at times, and I can't help but think that we are forgetting this is a forum, where some come for answers, others to vent.
You would think it is a place for knowledge etc, but it can at times be a place of great debate.
For every member, you could have just as many different opinions.
The thing I enjoy are some of the people you meet out hunting who also belong to this site.
Has made for some good over the fire with a beer conversations.

[Dre]

I agree that a 4 point only season is not good for deer management. Its been explained very well, so I will only say that if you want to get a mature buck and don't mind working for it, get off the beaten path a little and you will increase your chances. Mature bucks become mature because they learn to not run into hunters near the roads. Sure it happens, but it seams that Lady Luck is giving you the cold shoulder, so look in places that are some distance from the main roads, on the other side of a hill, bottom of a valley, always close to cover, likely at first and last light... They are not very far, but just enough. Last year I shot a 4x3 that had one ear split open and healed. Thats how they learn, people jumping out of vehicles in spray and pray mode. After a couple of misses, that buck will be very carefull. Good luck.

[swampthing]

Because we are allowed 3 deer, I do a little of both types of hunting. Region 5 is my oct meat hunt and region 3 is my nov trophy deer hunt. We live in a great province.

[180grainer]

Earlier thread closed. Good. Sorry about that.
My apologies for remarks pertaining to hunters who choose to shoot a spike mule deer.
I bet they do taste awesome. It's legal and in your right to shot one if you choose.
It's not my business to discriminate those who shoot a spiker.

I have had many spikers, 2 pt and 3 point deer in my crosshairs lined up for a perfect shot.
I choose to let them walk. I am the one who has waited for a decent 4 point to cross paths with.
Been several years now with no venison in the freezer. I am disciplined, and determined,
and hunt right to closing day in the snow and cold from dawn to dusk. It will eventually happen.
I get that you have to overlook a ton of other deer before you find the booner.

lately I have been starting to second guess my 4 pt focus. Starting to
think 2 point jerky is gonna taste pretty good this year. Sometimes I tend to think the "any buck"
season around Kamloops really cuts down on all the future 4 pt deer. I could use some education
about the any buck season. Is it allowed as we have a cull on deer around here? Too many?
Might as let everyone take any buck? What would happen to all the deer if we only had 4 pt
or bigger all hunting season? They'd die off naturally? Ecosystem cannot support? I suppose there
would be lots of complaints from those who want to keep "any buck" season open.
What would happen naturally if we let them all grow to 4 pt? I am all ears....

Don't apologize for holding a position you honestly believed in. There are too many people who change their positions back and forth based on the "perception" of what others think or where a change in position might get them if they say the right thing....fu#$%em. Change you position if information is provided to you that indicates to "you" that you should rethink that position. But don't apologize for a position you held honestly to begin with.

[OutWest]

I'm still surprised that so many seem not to be able to get a deer.

I think those who are complaining just aren't very good hunters. Most are in too big a rush to even see deer.

I've told the story before about the two trucks + one quad group of guys, 8 guys in total I believe, who were bombing around looking for deer and moose. My buddy and I met them, they turned around and headed out in front of us. A few hundred yards down the road (we are behind them, and they just passed this spot twice now), we spy a nice buck feeding in an open cut. My buddy gets out and nails it while the 8 guys stop and watch, wondering why we stopped.

The 8 guys never saw it, even after driving by it twice. That's 16 eyes times 2 drives past the deer = 32 eyes missing a mule deer buck standing in a clearcut 150 yards off the road at 10 am on a clear day. WTF?

No amount of antler restrictions will help those 8 guys fill their tags.

Have to agree with this. Finding a buck, whether it's a 4 point or not, just isn't that hard. Most guys think covering as much ground as possible is the answer and are left disappointed. Find a spot, post up and make use of your spotter and binos. You'll start picking out deer and shots will present themselves much easier than when you spook deer.

Or just put 'er in low range like FD - both will get the job done.

[batman66]

"Mature bucks become mature because they learn to not run into hunters near the roads"
Well said.

4 point season only makes stupid 4 points. If it was easy to get a big 4pt every season, where would be the thrill and challenge that drives us to hike into snow covered hills in the last week of the season to get that magnificent beast that has out smarted us season after season.

I've been hunting the same buck for 3 years with no avail, unfortunately I don't think he made it through last season. but he has made many babies that will carry his amazing genetics.

On another note my first mulie buck was a spiker and one of the best trophies I have ever gotten.

[huckleberry]

To properly manage a deer heard you need to shoot all age levels of bucks if you only target certain age groups you damage your future herd. This is all well known scientific management of deer herd. Do a search on this site and you will find out more than you can imagine.

If this is the case, why has the bull elk hunting in the kootenays improved substantially from the three point or better seasons with a six or seven bull elk per one hundred cows to todays twenty five bulls to one hundred cows? Different animal? Still an ungulate. Why did the wildlife branch go back to four point or better regulations on the west side of the kootenay because the buck to doe muley ratios were low prior to the four point only regional season as of 2014?s

[.330 Dakota]

Kami---I didnt read the thread, and I really dont care to,,,just wanted to point out that it takes a real man to stand up and admit when he's wrong and to appologize. Kudo's to you for being that man.