Gun License

[Rob Chipman]

So...Mule deer open up in some parts of Region 3 September 1. Meanwhile, I sent my firearms license in for renewal last October. I've called four times and even have an extension number that I can punch in so that I can push fewer buttons while I wait to be told, for the 3rd time, that yes, a firearms officer has my application, and yes, the application is complete and not missing any information, and yes, I can continue to wait patiently because the staff are swamped by the high demand for renewals. I cannot talk to the actual person (I hesitate to call them a civil servant, because I'll be damned if I can see any degree of service in this process) to find out if there is anything I can do to expedite the process.

There is a website, but when I entered my personal information it rejected it on the basis that it did not conform with their records (gotta wonder- if they have my info why did I have to re-submit it? I guess that whole Google/Facebook/Wordpress ID thing passed them by).

The number that the website refers you to? They advise that they've had many complaints about the website not working, but unfortunately they can't help (you couldn't write comedy this good).



The firearms people confirm that if I throw my rifle in the truck to go hunting I am breaking the law.

So, a couple questions:

Has anybody else been waiting this long for a renewal?

Has anyone else found a way to speed it up?

Am I ok going hunting with someone else who has a PAL? (I've heard this is permissible).

Do you require a special license to hunt with rocks?

And Jelvis, is there any chance you can explain to me how this is all good and correct because, after all, I'm a mushroom who likes to live in the dark and be fed BS? (Seriously, I love reading your explanations of how things work - they always make me chuckle).

[keoke]

I would call an ask to talk to a manager and dont take no for an answer. Do you have a restricted endorsement? I would also call the BC CFO and talk to them as well

[albravo2]

Wow. Last October? That is ridiculous.

My only suggestion is to keep calling until you get a reasonable person on the other end. Even though my original PAL was much later than expected I was told everything was in order and there were lots of applications being processed until I finally got a good person on the other end. She went, pulled my file, and it was processed the next day.

[Rob Chipman]

albravo and keoke:

Thanks for that input. Joe at Italian recommended getting in touch with the BC office as well, saying they are great people there, so I'm on that right now. Nice to know you got some progress when you finally got someone good on the line.

[Xenomorph]

Just pack your firearms on your old PAL; its not your fault they can't keep up to the bs that has been created.

An expired license is an expired license. I don't think you want to deal with the hassle of the "AFTER" if you get pulled over.

[Rob Chipman]

Hunter Dog:

"Just pack your firearms on your old PAL; its not your fault they can't keep up to the bs that has been created."

I like your thinking, but what do you tell the Mountie standing beside the CO? That he's interpreting the law correctly, but it's not my fault? :-) I'd try it in Mexico, slip him $40 (the "half-price/no paperwork" price) but I'm not sure I've got the balls to try it here.

The BC office is closed now, but I'll try again in the morning.

[mikeboehm]

if i sent my license in plenty before my expiry and i dont get it back in time. i would be out hunting with an expired license. bring a copy of the date the recieved it. i wouldnt care. there fault im technically illegal not mine. wont be changing my plans because there ****ing up

[.30-06 camsavbc]

I wonder why there is such a discrepancy with renewals. I sent mine in early spring and it took exactly 60 days. My renewal was from 2004 as I had no firearms after that. They did not call my references and I did not call them. The conservative government is saying that they are speeding up the process but then there seem to be cases like yours.? The BC chief firearms officer should at least be able to find out why so long and should be able to answer why. If your friend picks up your guns and puts them in his safe and he transports them then you should be good. Good luck!

[caddisguy]

Call the number / extension for the BC CFO. Try my opener:

"I'm just calling because I've had a renewal in the system since X... the expiration and hunting season is creeping up pretty quick here, so I want to make sure it goes through before then"

Worked 100% of the times I've used it! (1/1) ... approved on the spot.

[caddisguy]

Also if your PAL lapses (and you don't have restricteds) I'd get them in a friends safe to be sure. Technically it's unlawful posession whether they're at home or with you alone out in the bush. They'll tell you that you'll "probably be ok if you don't take them out of the house" but if you have a break-in or if the police have to attend your house for any reason, you might have issues. Nothing would hold up in court since you did your due dilligence but the process is the punishment.

[keoke]

Also if your PAL lapses (and you don't have restricteds) I'd get them in a friends safe to be sure. Technically it's unlawful posession whether they're at home or with you alone out in the bush. They'll tell you that you'll "probably be ok if you don't take them out of the house" but if you have a break-in or if the police have to attend your house for any reason, you might have issues. Nothing would hold up in court since you did your due dilligence but the process is the punishment.

I was told that as long as it is in process you are fine to retain your firearms in your home. I went through this and called in and asked about it.

[ellenbill]

My advice for what it's worth is when you send in your renewal do it by registered mail. At least you will have a record of when you sent it. A reasonable enforcement officer or judge would excuse you. I might ask others if you have ever been asked to show it, other than buying ammo. I haven't.

[russm86]

My advice for what it's worth is when you send in your renewal do it by registered mail. At least you will have a record of when you sent it. A reasonable enforcement officer or judge would excuse you. I might ask others if you have ever been asked to show it, other than buying ammo. I haven't.

Yep this is what I have done and told all my friends and family to do. Photo copy all of it signed with dates etc... Then mail it registered or signature required/tracking so you can prove they accepted it on whichever date etc. Luckily I, nor anyone I know personally, have never run into this issue but had I been so unfortunate and it came down to the wire, I'd pack my old PAL with the copy of my renewal application and a print out of the proof of receipt on their end. The odd CO or cop, especially those who aren't familiar with firearms laws, may give you a hard time but you would be able to give them and the judge something to chew on, especially with this new bill being tabled, not officially passed yet or anything, but gives some more gristle to your case when even the government admits there is something wrong with the system and hence why they feel it needs changing.

[caddisguy]

I was told that as long as it is in process you are fine to retain your firearms in your home. I went through this and called in and asked about it.

I think that might be their general opinion based on probability. I don't recall seeing any exception in the Firearms Act for renewal in progress. I think that is one of the things they want to fix with the "Common sense firearms act". I would check that first and if it's not defined, I'd go the safe route.

[monasheemountainman]

Just pack your firearms on your old PAL; its not your fault they can't keep up to the bs that has been created.
X2 I wouldn't miss hunting cuz they can't get their shit together

[monasheemountainman]

They can verify a pal even if you don't have it on you. As long as it has been processed and you are approved

[ellenbill]

Yes, but how do you know if you are processed and approved?

[CaribooBC]

My wife applied for her RPAL renewal in April, her's was to expire in the end of July. She had her new one in three weeks!

[Jagermeister]

Last October? There's something amiss here. Have you been divorced or separated in the past year or so? Something has flagged your renewal and unless you start pushing to find out and expedite a remedy you will not see your renewal.
To reach the BCCFO, phone 1-800-731-4000 and when prompted for an extension number, enter 9540.
Nicely explain to the person who answers the phone your dilemma. Do not lose your cool, polite and civil at all times regardless what you're hearing. Get out of hand and you may never see a PAL and may have some visitors in short order.
Again, 1-800-731-4000 ext 9540

[Rob Chipman]

Jagermeister:

No divorce, no separation, nobody has even contacted my wife. The application is in BC for review. The lady I spoke to today indicates that they no longer forward calls to the CFOs, that there are people who have been waiting longer than me, and that she anticipates her days getting even rougher once hunting season begins (its already underway in some places and for some species, of course).

They have forwarded my enquiry to the CFO (I assume by email) and she's expecting another call next week.

We had a frank, albeit friendly discussion about getting transferred directly to a CFO, about volumes, and about whether I'm in contravention of the law by possessing firearms without a valid permit. Her opinion is that I'm ok as long as I don't take the firearms out of my house. When I pushed her on this and asked what would happen if there was a break in at my house and the Mounties attended, and whether her telephone opinion would be good enough for a Mountie who reads the law in a different way I think we pretty much both agreed that I would be clearly in possession of firearms without a valid permit, meaning I'd be at the mercy of the Mountie.

We all know that law enforcement does not read or enforce the law in a consistent manner. That's why you get to go to court, where, from time to time, the judge finds that the cops enforced or interpreted the law incorrectly. You can't argue that the authorities will be reasonable. Some will, some won't. We all (including the powers that be) recognize this, which, again, is why we have redress to court. Hunter Dog seems to have experience with this.

I don't want to have a fight with anyone, so this is very frustrating. I'm pretty certain that nobody is going to break into my house and I doubt I'm going to have to do anything other than wait.

However...some guys somewhere decided that guns are really dangerous, and they either were in government or got some allies in government to pass a law without providing enough money to administer the law. The result is that I can't hunt right now, and am possibly committing a crime, depending on the opinion of an individual law enforcement employee.

Most people don't want people to be killed by guns. Fair enough. Passing another law and requiring more paperwork does not stop that from happening, anymore than putting a license plate on an ATV stops ATV theft or degradation of the environment. Think I'm wrong? Would a license plate and another law stop future Mt. Polley style tailing pond breaks?.

I'm not calling on anyone to go to the barricades. The advice from other members here has been helpful, as well as the input from Joe at Italian Sporting Goods. I think we can all agree, however, that when the government requires you to comply with rules that they cannot administer then we've got more government than we need.

Maybe if we kept taxes and government employment at the current levels, but got rid of the current firearms program and spent that money and used those people to count moose....


I'll post an update next week.

[albravo2]

Rob,
Have you explored whether or not you can hunt with someone else that has a valid PAL? I believe you can. That may be your only option at this point.

Ridiculous, I know, but it beats not hunting.

[Steeleco]

He can hunt with another PAL holder. Your supposed to be in close personal contact at all times, but the odds are that your only going to be asked for your PAL (if ever) while in the vehicle on a hwy or the entrance to a popular hunting area.

[r106]

Rob,
Have you explored whether or not you can hunt with someone else that has a valid PAL? I believe you can. That may be your only option at this point.

Ridiculous, I know, but it beats not hunting.

Yes with 100 percent certainty. Anyone with a valid hunting license can hunt with a firearm if they are accompanied by someone with a valid Firearm license.

To the OP - That's complete BS what the CFO is doing to you. I would demand to speak to someone in charge and start sending emails to your MP and the Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney. Not sure what else you can do? Shitty to see someone who is doing everything they can to be a law abiding person getting screwed around like this.

My renewal a couple years ago took a about 2 months

[Jagermeister]

Jagermeister:

No divorce, no separation, nobody has even contacted my wife. The application is in BC for review. The lady I spoke to today indicates that they no longer forward calls to the CFOs, that there are people who have been waiting longer than me, and that she anticipates her days getting even rougher once hunting season begins (its already underway in some places and for some species, of course).

They have forwarded my enquiry to the CFO (I assume by email) and she's expecting another call next week.

We had a frank, albeit friendly discussion about getting transferred directly to a CFO, about volumes, and about whether I'm in contravention of the law by possessing firearms without a valid permit. Her opinion is that I'm ok as long as I don't take the firearms out of my house. When I pushed her on this and asked what would happen if there was a break in at my house and the Mounties attended, and whether her telephone opinion would be good enough for a Mountie who reads the law in a different way I think we pretty much both agreed that I would be clearly in possession of firearms without a valid permit, meaning I'd be at the mercy of the Mountie.

We all know that law enforcement does not read or enforce the law in a consistent manner. That's why you get to go to court, where, from time to time, the judge finds that the cops enforced or interpreted the law incorrectly. You can't argue that the authorities will be reasonable. Some will, some won't. We all (including the powers that be) recognize this, which, again, is why we have redress to court. Hunter Dog seems to have experience with this.

I don't want to have a fight with anyone, so this is very frustrating. I'm pretty certain that nobody is going to break into my house and I doubt I'm going to have to do anything other than wait.

However...some guys somewhere decided that guns are really dangerous, and they either were in government or got some allies in government to pass a law without providing enough money to administer the law. The result is that I can't hunt right now, and am possibly committing a crime, depending on the opinion of an individual law enforcement employee.

Most people don't want people to be killed by guns. Fair enough. Passing another law and requiring more paperwork does not stop that from happening, anymore than putting a license plate on an ATV stops ATV theft or degradation of the environment. Think I'm wrong? Would a license plate and another law stop future Mt. Polley style tailing pond breaks?.

I'm not calling on anyone to go to the barricades. The advice from other members here has been helpful, as well as the input from Joe at Italian Sporting Goods. I think we can all agree, however, that when the government requires you to comply with rules that they cannot administer then we've got more government than we need.

Maybe if we kept taxes and government employment at the current levels, but got rid of the current firearms program and spent that money and used those people to count moose....


I'll post an update next week.I am confused a bit here Rob. You phoned the 1-800731-4000 and then entered the extension 9540? Or did you get someone before you entered the extension number. If the person answered after you entered the extension number, you should have been speaking to someone in the BC CFO office unless the call was going unanswered, then you would be transferred back to Miramichi.

Okay, I just ran a test on the number I provided. The extension number 9540 is for the southern interior of BC. The person I talked to is a sub-CFO and he told me that inquiries for the LML go through the Surrey office. So Rob, you need to call 1-800-731-4000 and when prompted for the extension number, enter 9530. Have at 'er and let us know how this works out. Hopefully it will be expedited for you.

[Darksith]

man, just go hunting. I know lots of people that still don't have a PAL...the CO's don't care, don't give the RCMP a reason to pull you over and you won't have any issues. Realistically, you are breaking the law just having the rifles in your possession now...realistically the RCMP aren't gonna toss you in jail either even if they did pull you over. They would take your guns and you would need a friend with a PAL to go pick them up for you. I also know guys that have had their rifle confiscated while driving due to no PAL...wasn't a big deal, they just took it away and off you went. Now obviously ever cop is gonna be different, but I guess it depends on how desperate you are to get out there...personally I wouldn't wait.

[caddisguy]

I am confused a bit here Rob. You phoned the 1-800731-4000 and then entered the extension 9540? Or did you get someone before you entered the extension number. If the person answered after you entered the extension number, you should have been speaking to someone in the BC CFO office unless the call was going unanswered, then you would be transferred back to Miramichi.

Okay, I just ran a test on the number I provided. The extension number 9540 is for the southern interior of BC. The person I talked to is a sub-CFO and he told me that inquiries for the LML go through the Surrey office. So Rob, you need to call 1-800-731-4000 and when prompted for the extension number, enter 9530. Have at 'er and let us know how this works out. Hopefully it will be expedited for you.

x2 ... 9530 is the magic extension.

[Madmardigan]

Hello Rob,
I don't think it has been mentioned anywhere,but have you sent a letter to your local MP,asking for help?
I went through a lengthy wait (not as long as you)when I first applied,phone calls always ended in them being backlogged due to whatever reason.I was getting nowhere,and close to missing the hunting trip,so I was getting desperate.
I wrote an email to my mp,got a response from his office within 48hrs,and no kidding,a week later they got back saying it was all taken care of.A few days later it was approved and on its way.Yay ,Government.

[Rob Chipman]

I entered the 9530 extension, (been there 3x now) and asked, wheedled, cajoled to be transferred to the CFO. I picked up on the idea that they used to do that, but don't do it anymore. She also mentioned an increase in phone enquiries arising from slow renewals, which leads me to think that with more calls and more people wanting to talk right to the CFOs the CFOs have said "Christ, quit sending me these calls, I'm already swamped".

I'll give it another week before I light my hair on fire. The real fear I have is driving down the highway with a quad in the truck, and a scabbard on the quad. That's got me pulled over by a CO before (and he had no interest in the PAL, just whether I had a loaded rifle in the truck or scabbard - good guy and we talked about a herd of sheep running around where I planned moose hunting later that month).


Anyhow, we'll see how it develops. The other thing that pisses me off slightly is that reading the thread on new ruifles and shot placement motivated me to get a new .22 with a scope to try to hone my all around accuracy. Can't do that without a PAL (or a pal? ;-) )

[Rob Chipman]

Madmardigan:

I haven't written my MP, but that's on for next week for sure unless the wheels are rolling by then. Sad to think it's come to the point where you actually need your local MP! They'll start taking themselves seriously :-)

[TPK]

Just because others have been caught with firearms and no PAL and not received any legal ramifications does not mean you will be so lucky. This is NOT something you gamble with. Possession or transportation of a firearm by someone not legally allowed to posses or transport that firearm is committing a FEDERAL OFFENSE punishable by prison and or a $2000 fine .. not a gamble I personally would take. This type of CRIMINAL record is BS for sure but something that can really cramp your style. As pointed out, someone with a PAL can accompany you on your hunt, within voice range and basically arms length away, I would STRONGLY urge you follow this route if your PAL does not arrive in time.

[caddisguy]

I entered the 9530 extension, (been there 3x now) and asked, wheedled, cajoled to be transferred to the CFO. I picked up on the idea that they used to do that, but don't do it anymore. She also mentioned an increase in phone enquiries arising from slow renewals, which leads me to think that with more calls and more people wanting to talk right to the CFOs the CFOs have said "Christ, quit sending me these calls, I'm already swamped".

I'll give it another week before I light my hair on fire. The real fear I have is driving down the highway with a quad in the truck, and a scabbard on the quad. That's got me pulled over by a CO before (and he had no interest in the PAL, just whether I had a loaded rifle in the truck or scabbard - good guy and we talked about a herd of sheep running around where I planned moose hunting later that month).

Anyhow, we'll see how it develops. The other thing that pisses me off slightly is that reading the thread on new ruifles and shot placement motivated me to get a new .22 with a scope to try to hone my all around accuracy. Can't do that without a PAL (or a pal? ;-) )

Holy. That's so weird. I have heard from others who called that extension who end up talking to people in New Brunswick who were handling the CFO overflow and seem to have the magic ability for ad-hoc approval button pushing. I believe the CFO is over in Surrey... anyone ever try going down there?

The other strange thing is that it seems the majority of new applicants are getting their initial applications for PAL/RPAL processed in 30-45 days. You would think that renewals which are about to lapse would get some sort of priority over new applicants. I was reading a thread on another forum that had a number of applicants from BC posting timelines of apps mailed in May/June getting their license in the mail by mid to late July.

Anyway I'd stick to hunting under "supervision" of someone with a PAL, especially if you're anywhere in Region 2. I go through 2 or 3 dirt road-block gun-checks each year. Sometimes they're looking pretty hard to find anything wrong. I've had the car searched a few times and started to get hassle over an empty hotlips 10/22 mag that I had buried in the back of the jeep. Some guys out in Squamish got charged and gun-jacked over a legal mag last year too... they got their stuff back later, but without a PAL you might not. I believe you can be charged under the Firearms Act for not being able to produce the PAL while in possession of firearms and I doubt they would renew your license the next time around. Given it would be a sleazy play by the officer, but guys have been screwed over for a lot less. Not worth the risk IMHO.

[boxhitch]

Not sure what all the fuss is about


The government also plans to allow a grace period for gun owners with expired permits.
They would not be allowed to buy new guns or ammunition, but wouldn't be at risk of jail time because of the expired permits. The length of the grace period is still being determined.
www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?108731-The-Common-Sense-Firearms-Act

[Rob Chipman]

Boxhitch:

That's what the government "plans" to do. It's not done yet, and may not ever come to pass. As it stands now I can't buy ammo or a new rifle, nor can I take a rifle hunting on my own. That's the fuss, such as it is.

[Grizzloonly]

The Firearm Office needs to read their own directives (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/renew-renouv-eng.htm). They will send out a renewal notice 90 days prior to expiration to help you avoid this.


The CFP will send a renewal notice and a partially completed renewal application form approximately 90 days before the expiry date of a licence. For this reason, the CFP needs to be notified of address changes.

This is so far past 90 days it is ridiculous.

[Gun Dog]

Hello Rob,
I don't think it has been mentioned anywhere,but have you sent a letter to your local MP,asking for help?Exactly. Your MP is there to help with government bureaucracy. They are public servants after all.

[Buckzilla]

if i sent my license in plenty before my expiry and i dont get it back in time. i would be out hunting with an expired license. bring a copy of the date the recieved it. i wouldnt care. there fault im technically illegal not mine. wont be changing my plans because there ****ing up

I feel the exact same! My wallet with everything went "missing" this past June.
I have got everything replaced since in short order, except the PAL. It is restricted and Non restricted.
I put a hand written letter in my application envelope stating I have a 2 week hunt sept 20th planned, and the importance of me getting my new card before this date.
Come that date, I will be going on that hunt regardless of a stupid card in my wallet. no question about it.
If pulled over on hwy, the rifles will all be claimed by my parnter sitting next to me.

[TPK]

....If pulled over on hwy, the rifles will all be claimed by my parnter sitting next to me.

..and if caught out hunting without your partner beside you .. ? Sure "most" CO's don't ask for a Firearms License .. but if they did, I doubt you would be on here bragging about the outcome.
Why are folks so quick to advertise their willingness to break the law?.. even though it is not a fair law, advertising and in some cases encouraging others to ignore the law is not a very wise thing to be doing on a public forum. This is the fodder that the antis lap up and regurgitate to our detriment so please consider stopping doing it!

[Rob Chipman]

Grizzloonly:

I did get the renewal a little more than 90 days before, and lost no time sending it back. Took care with the pics, made copies of everything (as I'm sure lots of guys here do).

Really, the issue here is making laws that can't be administered. As a society we've got no shortage of great ideas, but we fall pretty short on the execution. I'll argue any side of a question forever, just for the hell of it, by I really don't mind having to have the PAL or renew it or safely store my guns or even be on a registry so long as I'm allowed to live my life in peace (so long as I'm not hurting anyone).

The government, in this case, has bitten off more than it can chew, and that means government staff are behind the 8-ball and catching crap from guys like me and it means I can't live my life in a free manner ("free" down and dirty definition: doing what I want as long as I'm not hurting someone else). That's a lose-lose. IMHO the proposed changes to the rules don't go far enough.

TPK:

You're right! It's be pretty dumb for me to come on here, use my real name, and boast about how I'm going to break the law :-) I may not like the law, but I'm old enough to be pragmatic about it. You have to pick your battles, right?

[yamadirt 426]

Mine came back within 2 months recently. I was worried but all went well. I sent in way after you and got it back a month before my bday. We are about to send in my wife's and I'll be sure to post how long it takes. Good luck

[squamishhunter]

..and if caught out hunting without your partner beside you .. ? Sure "most" CO's don't ask for a Firearms License .. but if they did, I doubt you would be on here bragging about the outcome.
Why are folks so quick to advertise their willingness to break the law?.. even though it is not a fair law, advertising and in some cases encouraging others to ignore the law is not a very wise thing to be doing on a public forum. This is the fodder that the antis lap up and regurgitate to our detriment so please consider stopping doing it!


Because those that make the laws don't follow them either. Some people have had enough. Don't judge them for what most see as "right" although not recognized by those in power.

[TPK]

I'm not really judging, simply pointing out the facts and strongly suggesting people consider the fall out of these discussions if viewed by LEO's or Anti's

Many people on this board have helped fund those that have put their thumb in the eye of "the man" when it came to their strong beliefs around firearms (think Bruce Montague for one) as they were left penniless and for the part had their lives destroyed by over zealous Lawyers and Judges. If asked if they would do it again .. I doubt the answer would be yes.

[Rob Chipman]

For anyone who is not aware of Bruce Montague, referred to above by TPK, here's a link to a couple articles:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/03/first-they-took-his-guns-now-the-government-wants-firearms-law-protesters-house-too/

[swampthing]

Go hunting. A CO doesn't want to see a pal, he wants to see a license. A cop on the other hand, wants to see a pal, not a license. Keep your stuff tight while you are on the pavement. Relax when you hit the dirt.

[Crimson Viking]

I waited 5 months one time and 3months + this last time. If you haven't already ( sry if I missed it in the posts) ask to be put through to the chief firearms officer for bc. When I did, the lady there took my info and passed it along. I got a call back a few hours later from the firearms officer to confirm info, and they processed it . Received it 2 weeks later .

[Buckzilla]

..and if caught out hunting without your partner beside you .. ? Sure "most" CO's don't ask for a Firearms License .. but if they did, I doubt you would be on here bragging about the outcome.
Why are folks so quick to advertise their willingness to break the law?.. even though it is not a fair law, advertising and in some cases encouraging others to ignore the law is not a very wise thing to be doing on a public forum. This is the fodder that the antis lap up and regurgitate to our detriment so please consider stopping doing it!

Sorry bud, but I WILL NOT skip a year of hunting because my wallet was stolen from my truck and the system in place to replace my PAL is obviously a joke.
I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen, who doesn't consider this breaking the law!
I have a PAL, at the moment, just not a card... It has not expired, it is just no longer with me.
For the record, I hunt with numerous guys that have never bother to get a PAL...
Have yet to hear of one of them having an issue...

[TPK]

Sorry bud, but I WILL NOT skip a year of hunting because my wallet was stolen from my truck and the system in place to replace my PAL is obviously a joke.
I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen, who doesn't consider this breaking the law!...

I'm not asking anyone to "skip a year hunting". Fact is you can hunt without PAL, there just happens to be rules around it.

You're an adult and capable of weighing the pros and cons of your actions and chances are you'll be just fine (as your buddies have been for years). How ever, what you "consider" not breaking the law is in fact breaking the law, you know it and you're openly advocating doing so .. so, sorry bud, your statement "I am a law abiding citizen" is a lie you tell yourself to justify your actions.

Again, I'm not saying I agree with the laws but I do follow them. What I am asking is that people not advertise, endorse, or encourage breaking them on a public forum where anti types can feed off it.

Now a question ... what are you doing to change the laws that you (and I) don't feel are just? You openly admit to breaking the laws as a personal protest but do you actually do something constructive like write letters to your MP, support the various groups that fight for better laws, or otherwise help in the good fight? I sincerely hope so.

[The Hermit]

Ahem... ever try bow hunting? ;-) No PAL required, more fun, just not as likely to put meat on the ground. LOL I'm waiting for my RPAL renewal too... fingers crossed.

[caddisguy]

Go hunting. A CO doesn't want to see a pal, he wants to see a license. A cop on the other hand, wants to see a pal, not a license. Keep your stuff tight while you are on the pavement. Relax when you hit the dirt.

Much different out here in Region 2. Not only do they check PAL's, but they make sure you also have the "conditions sheet" that you are supposed to carry with it, even if it's blank. CO's and RCMP often double up to do road blocks and vehicle searches on FSR's around the Fraser Valley, but I've ran into CO's doing these things solo as well. And holy heck watch out if you have a butt-stock ammo holders or one of those scary butler creek hotlips 10/22 mags... apparently those are "supposed to be pinned" as well.

[shelg]

I had the same problem last year. After the regisrty lost my application I called my MP and I had it in a week.

[ellenbill]

What the heck is a conditions sheet?

[Jagermeister]

What the heck is a conditions sheet?The not so little piece of paper that came with your nice plastic PAL card. You are required to have this on your person as well. It basically duplicates what's on the back of your card.

[Jagermeister]

Another line of BS on here! I want to see one of these.
Jeez Hunter Dog. You got a bot fly pickin your ass?
Anyhow, the conditions sheet is real and it came with your PAL or renewal. Like many, you probably discarded it once you hit the plastic. Pays to read the rest of the contents that come in envelopes. Sorry Dude, that's a fail.

[Jagermeister]

Let us see what your letter looks like micester.
I'll gladly show it to you the next time we meet.

[Peter Pepper]

Can anyone confirm this conditions sheet BS? I like to be all legal and now you have me all worried.
It'd like to hear Gatehouses opinion, or some other knowledgeable guy who can post a link to the relevant regulation.
If it was just from the cop who thinks that rimfire has mag restrictions then whatever, but better safe than sorry.

[ellenbill]

Aha! I think I remember it now.I threw it out because it was the same list of conditions on the back of the card.Why would you need two lists? My wallet is already full!

[finngun]

i just got my rpal back today with conditions and destination sheet,,,and authorization to transport restr. or prohibited guns ....after 8weeks waiting and one phone call...friendly service..no fail in my case....and you have to keep it with gun[s] when transporting restr..or prohib. firearms..:mrgreen:
and it says---i can take my guns [restr. or prohib.] any ranges /clubs.in bc.....what about if i wanna go to see gun smith...?am i allowed to do that trip too:confused:

[ellenbill]

Mines not restricted.But I remember the list.Don't recall it being as detailed as finnguns.

[Iron Sighted]

..and if caught out hunting without your partner beside you .. ? Sure "most" CO's don't ask for a Firearms License .. but if they did, I doubt you would be on here bragging about the outcome.
Why are folks so quick to advertise their willingness to break the law?.. even though it is not a fair law, advertising and in some cases encouraging others to ignore the law is not a very wise thing to be doing on a public forum. This is the fodder that the antis lap up and regurgitate to our detriment so please consider stopping doing it!

To use a quote credited to Thomas Jefferson: "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

I have to say if I'd gone to the lengths that Rob has to try and be law abiding, only to be stymied by the ineptness and incompetence of our government to carry out their end of the licence renewal process, I'd likely go hunting regardless because he has done nothing wrong, the fault lays entirely with our public servants responsible for processing his application and those that created this inane, useless law. I personally would feel no guilt and certainly would not feel criminal for breaking a law as stupid as this, especially under these circumstances.

[Jagermeister]

Mines not restricted.But I remember the list.Don't recall it being as detailed as finnguns.
Finngun got a Authorization To Transport (ATT) which is only applicable to restricted and prohibited firearms. This is separate to his other condition sheet unless they have changed something in the interm.
Finngun, if your ATT is separate, look on the backside for more details on the conditions. Toward the bottom, you should see the statement;

From :Your physical address will be listed here
To: Transport to and from all approved ranges, licensed gunsmiths and border crossings in British Columbia and the Yukon Territory.
Return to: Your present address as listed in the from line above.

EllenBill, if you do not have a RPAL, you will not have or need an ATT. The other condition sheet that must be carried with the PAL has on one STANDARD CONITION which states;
You must inform the Chief Firearms Officer of your province or territory wihtinthirty (30) days of any change to your name or address

Hope this clarifies it for you all.

[r106]

So you just pipe up when you really fail too. Awesome, didn't see anything about RESTRICTED in this shit anywhere. Guess I should quit reading.


Jager is right. There is a conditions sheet that comes with a PAL or RPAL that must be with you. It's stupid and a compete load of BS but he is right about it.

[r106]

Can anyone confirm this conditions sheet BS? I like to be all legal and now you have me all worried.
It'd like to hear Gatehouses opinion, or some other knowledgeable guy who can post a link to the relevant regulation.
If it was just from the cop who thinks that rimfire has mag restrictions then whatever, but better safe than sorry.

Here is a pic of mine, personal info blocked out obviously

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm141/r_106/d0ce26f4-1f52-4cff-9195-89741a51679c_zps0fb2b501.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/r_106/media/d0ce26f4-1f52-4cff-9195-89741a51679c_zps0fb2b501.jpg.html)

And the back were it clearly says you must have it with you

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm141/r_106/82cece4d-486b-4fb3-b2ff-7deffe7dd224_zpsc4d6a2b6.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/r_106/media/82cece4d-486b-4fb3-b2ff-7deffe7dd224_zpsc4d6a2b6.jpg.html)


It's completely stupid to have it because it says your conditions on the back of your license. But it does clearly state that you're supposed to have it

[finngun]

jager is correct,,,but my question is....//// it says---i can take my guns [restr. or prohib.] any ranges /clubs.in bc.....what about if i wanna go to see gun smith...?am i allowed to do that trip too??with my gun? thanx

[r106]

I think we have derailed this thread enough. If you have some Questions about your ATT I would recommend starting a new thread. But here's a hint to the answer - Your ATT tells you where you can transport your restricteds. If a location is not on there you can't take it there. Pretty simple.

[Jagermeister]

jager is correct,,,but my question is....//// it says---i can take my guns [restr. or prohib.] any ranges /clubs.in bc.....what about if i wanna go to see gun smith...?am i allowed to do that trip too??with my gun? thanx
The folks out in Ontario lost the "transport to a registered gunsmith" condition on their ATTs. Whether it was an oversight is subject to conjecture. The CFO in that province seems to be operating with a heavy hand and the folks down there would love to eliminate that office altogether.
Now Finngun, if that condition does not exist on your ATT, then as r106 says, "If a location is not on there you can't take it there.". You will need to apply to the CFO for a temporary ATT, probably two times, once to the 'smith and one for back to your residence. Makes it somewhat more constraining and inconvenient.
If anyone else has recently renewed their RPAL and ATT, would you check to see if your ATT still lists gunsmiths as a destination condition.
What do you think Rob Chipman? New thread on RPAL and ATT or just let it ride on this one? Or maybe a new header under Rifle Range, Reloading & Gun Talk (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?8-Rifle-Range-Reloading-amp-Gun-Talk)

[Everett]

Just got a new LATT and no gunsmith on it. So you now have to call to get short term ATT to go to the gunsmith in BC.

[finngun]

jaa but if my gun smith is on the way to my rifle range:mrgreen: any help?

[TPK]

To use a quote credited to Thomas Jefferson: "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

I have to say if I'd gone to the lengths that Rob has to try and be law abiding, only to be stymied by the ineptness and incompetence of our government to carry out their end of the licence renewal process, I'd likely go hunting regardless because he has done nothing wrong, the fault lays entirely with our public servants responsible for processing his application and those that created this inane, useless law. I personally would feel no guilt and certainly would not feel criminal for breaking a law as stupid as this, especially under these circumstances.

I think a lot folks would agree with you (and Rob). No need to advertise and do so knowing full well the possible consequences.

There are far better ways to make your point though as with this method all you are doing is breaking a law and (hopefully) not getting caught .. what changes will come about with this approach?.. not much. The alternative is follow the stupid law, (there are legal ways for you to do what you want) and write a few letters to your MP, MLA, etc. asking for change.

[squamishhunter]

Writing letters does **** all.

If the CPC or any government actually cared, these shit laws would've been rescinded long ago.

[Sofa King]

I've went through many, many roadblocks during the hunting season, both CO blocks and even just police traffic checks.
not once has any of them ever asked to see my PAL.

[ruger#1]

I've went through many, many roadblocks during the hunting season, both CO blocks and even just police traffic checks.
not once has any of them ever asked to see my PAL. Well, if you look like your avatar then I wouldn't either.

[Jelvis]

If a person is recently divorced or separated from a partner
then the government will check to see things
-- Not saying this is the reason cuz I don't know lol.
The government will contact the X to see if your ok or if your a naughty one.
-- Other reasons too of course.
jel -- Your approved -- lol --

[Rob Chipman]

Jel:

I was hoping for more of a chuckle from you. In this case we'll default to serious mode. You may think that the government will check into things if you answer yes to anything in the personal history section, and they may do that from time to time. If that makes you feel better about the current system, great.


In my case they have not done so. I have contacted them repeatedly and been assured that a) the application is complete and they don't need anything else b) that they are just waiting to get to it, c) that there is a big backlog and there are people who have been waiting longer than I have and d) I should just be patient.

Let me put it another way: they aren't checking anything. I sent the application in and paid the fee 11 months ago. What the government is doing is unacceptable and unreasonable. Things could be worse, I realize, but that doesn't mean the government has any excuses left on this file. Unacceptable, and unreasonable.

I'm sure they're all good guys, and I'm sure its a function of being under-staffed and over-worked. That said, I'm not hurting anyone, and with-holding my renewal does not make anyone, anywhere, any safer. If I had told them in October of last year that I was suicidal, had emotional problems, was abusing drugs and alcohol, was divorced or going through a breakdown of a significant relationship, that I'd been subject to a peace bond, etc, etc, how does not processing a form accomplish anything? If I'm a danger in October of 2013, when they get the form, they should take action to address this dangerous situation within, what, at least 4 months? Can you imagine what would happen if we read in the paper that a guy answering yes to a Personal history question in October 2013 went off the rails in October 2014 and that the government had been in possession of the information for a year and yet done nothing?

If they can't do the business they should get out of the business.

Better yet, just tell me that to properly staff the office and do the job they'll need a $500 service fee from me.

Perhaps fewer people answering telephones and more people processing applications.


Do I seem frustrated? Take that as the update. No joy today from the firearms office, so I've moved on to my MP, Andrew Saxton, CPC. I will continue to update you as things progress.

[goatdancer]

Something is definitely screwed up. I did my PAL renewal (with restricted) just a couple of months ago and it took 6 weeks from the day they received my application in Mirimachi.

[Sofa King]

Well, if you look like your avatar then I wouldn't either.

don't F### with Captain Spaulding!

caution: curse words
https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=MadHTBG2fq8

[caddisguy]

Any updates? My gf just got her license in the mail today. It was her first license ever and 44 days from sending it in the mail to receiving it in the mail. Never called or checked online. I'm happy for her but it sure doesn't seem fair that renewals go on the back burner while new apps go on the front. It makes no sense how a new app would get priority over a renewal app that they sat on so long it lapsed.

[Rob Chipman]

So, kicking this back to the top for an update.

I've called several times since I first posted this. Nothing has changed. One nice lady did give me the street address of the firearms office in Surrey. I may go try knocking on the door.

I just sent the whole package to my MP, Andrew Saxton, Conservative in North Van. Who knows? Maybe he can get 'er fixed. Sad state of affairs when you need your MP to chase down paperwork that your government decides you need to have in order to not be a criminal :-)

[Rob Chipman]

Quick update:

I got a call today from the firearms officer. Nice guy, several questions, talked about 10 minutes. Right after that he called my wife. Hopefully he'll green light this and I'll get it in 10 days - 2 weeks.

He told me:

They print the permits on Thursdays, so if you get in the print queue by Thursday it gets printed and mailed, and Canada Post is usually pretty good. Therefore, if mine makes it to this Thursday's printing and gets mailed Friday or Monday I should see it before too long.

He asked whether I owned restricted firearms. I thought he might float the idea of reducing my privileges and we talked a bit about what my plans were and how long ago I had taken the training. Where he was going was that since I took the training the rules have changed, so he recommended that if I were to take up pistol shooting I make sure I understood the current rules.

Like I say, he seemed like a good guy with a bunch of applications to get through, not a guy who was going to exercise arbitrary power.


OTOH, I did contact my MP and they did get in touch with the Ministry. Coincidence? I have no idea, and I'm not asking too many questions. I'm just hoping I can get the paperwork in my hand ASAP and get out there and see if I can do as well as some of the kids we've seen so far this fall.

[ianm]

The exact same thing happened to me...called the MP, got called by the CFO within days. I don't know what strings they pull, but their ability to prompt the CFO to process paperwork is pretty remarkable. Glad you're on the road to getting your renewal done!

[albravo2]

Good news Rob, I bet you get it very quickly now.

I'm not sure if your MP had anything to do with it. I was pretty darn sure your file was lost. Glad to hear things are moving now. I bet you have it in time for October hunts.

[Rob Chipman]

Last update, I hope! The firearms officer I spoke with yesterday called me a few minutes ago informing me he had approved my renewal and the paperwork would probably get into this Thursday's print queue, meaning I should have my new license sometime next week.

He didn't have to call to tell me that. If if was a bit of a sourpuss he could have just approved it and left me waiting, but he put in the extra effort to allow me to relax. I appreciate that, and told him so.

It does not seem to me that the guy approving the applications is the problem, but that perhaps there are too many applications to be reviewed for the amount of staff that they have. He was pretty diligent in his questions of me, and as I say, he was on the phone to my wife right after, so once he had the file in his hand he got down to business.

Both long planned moose hunts are going to go off as planned (3-31 and 7-11) as well as some spur of the moment mule deer hunts through region 3 and 8 and at least one trip down HWY 20 (if you could hunt deer with truck along that road in the spring....I must have seen 25 run across the road)!

Good times!

[ajr5406]

Just applied for my first PAL. Looks like I won't be buying a gun this season.... :-(

[NO IDEAS]

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/index-eng.htm
see if these info would be of some help. good luck

[caddisguy]

Just applied for my first PAL. Looks like I won't be buying a gun this season.... :-(

My gf just got her first license and it was only 34 days from dropping the app in the mail to receiving the license in the mail. The system and the way it applies resources is a puzzle nobody can figure out. Lots of apps sail through in 30-45 days with no references called... meanwhile 10 month pending renewals are sitting while licenses lapse.

People with RPAL's and no restricted firearms seem to get the worst of it. Maybe they go to a part time 1 man queue that there's no way to dodge or escalate from.

[ajr5406]

Interesting....

i can see why the RPAL with no restricted night get a tough time, but for a PAL renewal it seems like it should be a simple rubber stamp.

Mine will be interesting, since I have only been in Canada for 4 years I need to supply a criminal record check from my home country (Australia). It was all clear, but i wonder if that added piece of the puzzle will slow things down for me...

oh well, at least it gives me time to do my homework and hopefully get out hunting a few times before I can buy my own gun.



My gf just got her first license and it was only 34 days from dropping the app in the mail to receiving the license in the mail. The system and the way it applies resources is a puzzle nobody can figure out. Lots of apps sail through in 30-45 days with no references called... meanwhile 10 month pending renewals are sitting while licenses lapse.

People with RPAL's and no restricted firearms seem to get the worst of it. Maybe they go to a part time 1 man queue that there's no way to dodge or escalate from.

[ramintony]

Well if your willing to teach a local noob ill bring you along, im 18 and I got my pal soon to be 19

[Rob Chipman]

Final update!

Success. Received my license in the mail today, almost exactly 11 months after applying. I'm good for six years now. Thinking about getting an SKS and 1400 rounds of surplus ammo to practice. Thoughts?

[Glockaholic]

Eleven months! That's completely ridiculous!

Buy an SKS, or two! They are cheap and a hoot to shoot! I've owned pretty much every gun imaginable and scoffed at the cheap SKS until picking one up this year and love it.


Final update!

Success. Received my license in the mail today, almost exactly 11 months after applying. I'm good for six years now. Thinking about getting an SKS and 1400 rounds of surplus ammo to practice. Thoughts?

[Steeleco]

My son recently got his first. It was 5 weeks from taking the money off the credit card to card in hand. It was his first at 18 and nobody got called to check him out. He challenged the test with the help of one of HBC's fine members so we thought he'd be given some "special attention" I'm blown away. I renewed mine last summer for the 4th time IIRC and it took them 5 months.

[laredo318]

Took 4 weeks from the time the renewal showed up in mail to having new card in hand.
This included them sending me a letter as my CC had been compromised, and it would not work for the renewal fee.