Ministry response to Gitxsan eviction notice

[Eastbranch]

Walk softly and hope you dont get hit with a big stick? Negotiate faster chrusty.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/

[RugDoctor]

It's been posted here already about how it's going to get worse before it gets better.....here it comes. There will be violence.

[hawk-i]

Peaceful protest doesn't include infringing on the rights of other going about their legal business, or does it?

[Eastbranch]

Legally speaking they are protesting. However if they put up a road block and the crown tries to remove it the Gitxsan will go to court and win and we will never fish in the upper skeena again.

[Mulehahn]

Legally speaking they are protesting. However if they put up a road block and the crown tries to remove it the Gitxsan will go to court and win and we will never fish in the upper skeena again.

If the Gitxsan want to use the latest SCC court of Canada ruling to argue against sport fishing on the Upper Skeena they will also have to adhere to the Behn v Moulton Contracting Ltd ruling that basically stated blockades are illegal! Summaries can be found online but it boils down to "Aboriginal groups cannot invoke "self-help" remedies—such as blockades—when claiming that the government breached its duty to consult the Aboriginal group before making a decision affecting the group." Combine the two court cases, now that the government has a duty to consult on all unceded territory (the Behn Case was in regards to land covered under Treaty 8 ) then effectively all blockades are now illegal in BC and anyone participating should be arrested and charged accordingly.

[TARCHER]

That will be the day. Look back, way back in history.

[two-feet]

My moose leh is accessed through the gitxsan territory. Dang.

[Eastbranch]

Hunters were not part of the eviction notice. Only sports fishers. It is political posturing. Re blockades they are not claiming the govt did not consult they are claiming title to the land and as asserted private landowners they have every right to block access. Cited case has no relation here especially on land ceded under treaty. All Gitxsan trad territory is unceded. Chilcotin rules (might) apply. Hope everyone can keep their cool and not wreck this forever.

[Mulehahn]

Straight from the first paragraph of the Gitxsan Statement:

"This notice is pursuant to ayokim Gitxsan supported by the decision by the Supreme Court of Canada that the Crown must obtain consent and preserve the interests of the Gitxsan before carrying on any activities on Gitxsan lax yip, 33,000 sq km of territory in northwestern British Columbia."

To me, that says pretty clear that the they are contesting that the crown failed to consult, not over who who owns title. The case I sighted says that it is illegal to set up blockades when the issue is over the crown's failer to consult. If the blockade was over title it may be a legal blockade (maybe, but highly doubtful, only that the RCMP and Crown won't pursue charges) But the Gitxsan Statement states this is about failure to consult and the SCC has explicitly said all blockades originating from such concerns are illegal.

ArcticRed, I am not trying to attack you. Just stating how I read the SCC rulings and the Gitxsan Statement. If you can show me where the Gitxsan are arguing title vs failure to consult I will gladly agree. I just don't see it.

I sincerely hope this thread stays civil, as I think these issue are important.

[digginsweatinswearin]

Giving the fishing guide outfits the boot will be relatively easy(our RCMP will do that for them) but the logging , mining and rail??? CN has a ridiculous amount of power, not to mention their own police force, this could get very interesting in a week.

[Eastbranch]

Lax yip is asserted territory. They are citing the chilcotin decision re: they feel that the activities outlined are an act of trespass. Again, the 'consultation' bit is lip service to the political posturing they are making. The precedent is that they own that land. Legally right now, they do not. But functionally, they do. Without more information from the Gitxsan, we have no way of knowing what will gain their 'consent' ... it may be major or minor in the case of sport fisheries. Worst case is some kind of f'd up royalty schedule. best case is 'the principle of the thing'. Reality falls somewhere in the middle. They are pressuring the province for a treaty/claim deal and are using the biggest revenue generators in the region as leverage. I doubt they want control of rec fisheries....we are a bargaining chip. We can tell this is the case because they are not going after the feds re: DFO commercial fishery licence allocation. Gitxsan have been wanting to move commercial fisheries upriver to support their selective fisheries for years. But they have very little pull in prince rupert.....best form of the argument is to make big moves on the land they claim ownership to.

DFO prince rupert is clearly in violation of the clauses in chilcotin (meaningful diminution of ownership right) if we replaced chilcotin with gitxsan and forest with fish.

My brain hurts. Still going fishing in carnaby oct 5.

[Mulehahn]

Let me establish that I fully support FN rights, and think that serious negotiations need to take place to settle this for everyone. But, as I read the Gitsxan Statement in its entirety,

"Simgiigyet'm Gitwangak and Gitsegukla have issued eviction notices today to all Sports Fisheries, Forest Industry and CN Rail to leave Gitxsan lax yip by August 4, 2014. This notice is pursuant to ayokim Gitxsan supported by the decision by the Supreme Court of Canada that the Crown must obtain consent and preserve the interests of the Gitxsan before carrying on any activities on Gitxsan lax yip, 33,000 sq km of territory in northwestern British Columbia.

This eviction notice affects all sports fisheries on the Skeena River and tributaries, all forest activities authorized by BC Timber Sales and FLNRO, and CN Rail. All are expected to vacate and cease activities on August 4, 2014 until both Crowns have obtained the required consent of the Gitxsan Hereditary Chiefs.

The Crowns have carried on what the Gitxsan Chiefs believe to be a fraudulent consultation process by FLNRO BC Timber Sales and have not implemented any consultations before permitting sports fisheries and transportation of goods by CN Rail. This is a huge trespass on Gitxsan lands by the Crown and makes futile any efforts by the BC LNG Team to develop any meaningful relationship or reconciliation with the Gitxsan Hereditary Chiefs.

Sagum Higookw, Vernon Smith states: "In line with our ayookw, the Supreme Court of Canada says repelling trespassers is a necessary element of our title."

The Crowns refuse to abide by the rulings of BC courts that the Gitxsan have strong prima facie rights and good prima facie title to these lands since contact in 1846. "There is no legislative authority," says Negotiator Beverley Clifton Percival, "for these government bureaucrats to make determinations regarding Gitxsan strength of title and rights. Without the consent by the Gitxsan Hereditary Chiefs they are trespassers."

"The Crown has never been honourable in their engagement with the Gitksen since 1997," says Tenimgyet, Art Mathews, "Harvesters of trees and fish are now evicted."


I count 5 references to lack of consultation and consent, and only 1 to ownership. To me this establishes that the issue being contested is lack of consultation. What the Gitxsan true intent is only they know. But they clearly laid out in they take issue with the lack of consultation, and the SCC has clearly laid out what they are allowed to do when such issues arise.

[Jelvis]

Forget the bs talking and share the green, enuff talking and bsing
The time has come, share the wealth or get shut down in court.
Simple as A B C.
The talking over a hundred years is done. The occupation of territory is over. The time has come. An Indian Police Force (IPF) on native land will put a fix to this abuse and unfair practices. The Chief of Poh Leece. lol.
It's like a fight, stop talking drop the gloves or get off the ice.
The talk is cheap and it's time to pay or piss off. You say it's going to get mean eh, maybe it will.
Jel -- start paying real money or cease and desist -- simple as that. That is where it's at right now. The days of taking everything and talkin bs is done. Pay or get off the property. Thars a new Sherriff in town.

[RugDoctor]

Aaannnnndddd there goes the thread....

[Wild one]

Forget the bs talking and share the green, enuff talking and bsing
The time has come, share the wealth or get shut down in court.
Simple as A B C.
The talking over a hundred years is done. The occupation of territory is over. The time has come. An Indian Police Force (IPF) on native land will put a fix to this abuse and unfair practices. The Chief of Poh Leece. lol.
It's like a fight, stop talking drop the gloves or get off the ice.
The talk is cheap and it's time to pay or piss off. You say it's going to get mean eh, maybe it will.
Jel -- start paying real money or cease and desist -- simple as that. That is where it's at right now. The days of taking everything and talkin bs is done. Pay or get off the property. Thars a new Sherriff in town.


You know you are doing a great favour for FN's by stirring the pot with tough talk towards people who are irritated by what is happening over this SCC ruling.

Do you want people to take the law into their own hands?

Not smart to keep poking because the wrong person walks into one of these areas all ready on edge they may not be into a reasonable talk

FN's blood don't give you the strength of 10 men or make you bullet proof and crazy people come in all colours.

Not smart to poke bears, bee hives, or angry people because it can have bad results


Now there is a large portion of people trying to see how this SCC ruling truly effects us since the details are not in the open yet.

So if you want to tough talk go look in the mirror and talk trash to the 3/4 that is not FN.

[two-feet]

Yes the next few days, weeks and years are going to be very interesting in BC. If nothing else this reccent SCC decision forces the govt hand and we may be working toward a sollution at long last. The province must figure this one out or we will see zero investement coming into BC in the next few years

[Jelvis]

Your the one saying, "Oh this is going to erupt, oh boy sooner or later this is going to get bad and there could be trouble. Now I believe you.
So don't try backing out now. You predict violence like some others so don't bs me. Even some high ups are predicting it.
You don't like the truth. The truth is the game has changed.
In the beginning of August it's going to get hot, we know that.
Well the days of talkin are over it's time for the businesses to start paying immediately or they will be shut down, and if it is, they will have no income.
Jel -- the one way streets are gone. It's 2 ways or a no go.
I ain't no chicken I can stand on my own two feet but the time has come to pay or stop the action. You can see it coming and so can I.
The world is going crazy right now, watch the news. The world atmosphere is on a world war 3 trend.
Like the Province says, you got problems call the RCMP. Don't call them cuz they got their hands tied.
I'm going to get a hold of Ezra Lavant and he will straighten this out.

[Wild one]

Seeing more and more why people suggest putting you on ignore

Good night tough little mutt

[limit time]

Forget the bs talking and share the green, enuff talking and bsing
The time has come, share the wealth or get shut down in court.
Simple as A B C.
The talking over a hundred years is done. The occupation of territory is over. The time has come. An Indian Police Force (IPF) on native land will put a fix to this abuse and unfair practices. The Chief of Poh Leece. lol.
It's like a fight, stop talking drop the gloves or get off the ice.
The talk is cheap and it's time to pay or piss off. You say it's going to get mean eh, maybe it will.
Jel -- start paying real money or cease and desist -- simple as that. That is where it's at right now. The days of taking everything and talkin bs is done. Pay or get off the property. Thars a new Sherriff in town.
Your all about the money and not the heritage, eh jel.

[RugDoctor]

More like sitting on the sideline letting everyone else fight, and then riding in on coat tails to pick up scraps. FN scraps, or white man scraps. He doesn't care as long as it's free.

[Jelvis]

Using big words isn't going to cut it anymore. Fancy words of promise in the distant future aren't going to work. Heritage, culture, and other big words invented to ostracize and separate people from the real thing. Smoke and mirrors of the funny magicians has been exposed. While the twisted evil are shoving the green into their pockets and spewing anger and causing fear to shove them even farther away from prosperity.
Big words and hot air for too many centuries have finally hit the wall of justice.
Talking and talking and doing dickness about the sharing. Now the compass has turned and the needle is pointing in a different direction.
The time has come and your time is not only limited but your time is up.
You can keep your fancy invented words. Let's see some dollars.
You tell others words at Christmas time or do you buy real presents?
Words mean absolutely nuttin honey. If someone is hungry do you say, have a nice day and leave or do you make a nice toasted double meat and cheese burger with marinara sauce with fried onions and sautéed mushrooms?
Jello -- and then ask "Fries wit dat?" What wood yah like to drink?
A cold one or a hot café mocha? Take eat and drink until your full.

[Cordillera]

I agree this eviction is clearly Gitxsan using the leverage they want to get attention. However the legal reasoning they use is pretty selective and flawed. The Supreme Court reference to evicting trespassers was about evicting prior to contact, and not even a wildly enthusiastic interpretation would translate that to modern times. It's clear that until title is proven they have no legal basis to evict anyone and as noted earlier other decisions are clear; if you don't like what the government does you don't have the right to blockade third parties. There are other legal avenues to pursue disputes with the government

With all that said, it is clear that new solutions are needed that really resolve the underlying issue. We never signed treaties here.

[limit time]

Just like all the BS you spew on this site jel...and as far as what I would like to eat or drink? At least I earned it!

[browningboy]

Lol, it will never end, give them land, then money, then more land etc.. A lome has to be drawn in the sand, go to the table and draw it, then that's it! After that they will need to work, to buy food, pay tax etc and welcome to the real world! One land and one law!

[RugDoctor]

You were right when you said it'll never end. It won't.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Hunters were not part of the eviction notice. Only sports fishers.

Only Sport Fishers and why is that ? - do sport fishers take SO many fish that the Local natives cannot eat and will starve ? :confused: Give us some answers there o mighty out to LUNCH ! :( RJ

[kilometers]

Only Sport Fishers and why is that ? - do sport fishers take SO many fish that the Local natives cannot eat and will starve ? :confused: Give us some answers there o mighty out to LUNCH ! :( RJ

No no no only sport fishers because hunting season isn't here yet. That will be next.

[ruger#1]

No no no only sport fishers because hunting season isn't here yet. That will be next. What about the pinecone eaters and mushroom pickers. Don't forget the nudists.

[Brett]

interesting post i read elsewhere



To get a couple of things out of the way, firstly I can’t say I’m especially pleased with the tenor of the news coverage accompanying this decision. It’s as though the judges have created new law, or found something wholly unprecedented, and they most certainly have not. What is certainly “new” is that this decision has clarified the already-existing law and the protocols and rules governing the relationship between the Crown and First Nations where no treaties have provided otherwise. Apart from that, all glory belongs to the Tsilhq’otin alone.
Despite what certain lazy and disingenuous politicians and special-interest groups will want you to think, a sturdy body of aboriginal rights law, honored in its breach as much as otherwise, has been there for quite some time. All this “golly gee we had no idea” simply won’t do. The aboriginal rights in question, affirmed in Section 35 of the Constitution Act 1982, have been explained and elucidated in a series of decisions that the judges in today’s ruling cited, not least the Sparrow case, the Gladstone case, and also Delgamuukw Versus The Queen (since I’m hornblowing a bit I might add that I wrote a book about the backstory to that case, too – A Death Feast in Dimlahamid (http://www.newstarbooks.com/book.php?book_id=0921586647).)
Similarly, we should not be so quick to characterize today’s findings as being a matter of judges having magically “granted” the Tsilhqot’in legal title to their lands in the Xeni Gwet’in; those lands were Xeni Gwet’in lands all along, and most definitively, I’m confident enough to suggest, since 1864. As we shall see in a moment.
The other thing to get out of the way is that no matter what you might hear, the Supremes have not ruled that aboriginal “consent” is required of governments that might want to authorize the cutting of trees, the laying of pipelines, or the excavation of mines. The underlying Crown title to unceded aboriginal lands is still there. Across British Columbia, the flags are still flying on all government buildings. Relax.
The thing is, the law already (viz Delgamuukw) makes plain that aboriginal title is a very big deal, and it extends even to the right of aboriginal people in unceded-land areas to cut trees on Crown land, lay their own pipelines and excavate their own mines, if they so choose, so long as the rights that gave rise to that title – hunting, harvesting, and so on – are not extinguished in the process.
The immediate injustice the Tsilhqot’in community of Xeni Gwet’in set out to address in this case was that the British Columbia Forest Act was written, and logging was authorized under it, as though aboriginal title did not even exist. And that’s just the Forest Act. This is the dirty little secret behind much of the hubbub-making on these subjects West of the Rockies. As the judges put it in today’s ruling, “the Province’s land use planning and forestry authorizations under the Forest Act were inconsistent with its duties owed to the Tsilhqot’in people.” We should tolerate none of that carry-on after today’s decision, to be sure.
However, subject to the appropriate constitutional limits, of course, “provincial governments have the power to regulate land use within the province. This applies to all lands, whether held by the Crown, by private owners, or by the holders of Aboriginal title.” When we come to this question: “What remains, then, of the Crown’s radical or underlying title to lands held under Aboriginal title?” The judges answer: “The authorities suggest two related elements — a fiduciary duty owed by the Crown to Aboriginal people when dealing with Aboriginal lands, and the right to encroach on Aboriginal title if the government can justify this in the broader public interest under s. 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982.”
As for aboriginal “consent,” it is definitely very much to be desired, as always, but infringements that may unavoidably arise in the course of authorizing a valid public purpose that encroaches on aboriginal title – like the cutting of trees, the laying of pipelines, the excavation of mines – can be justified so long as the Crown acts on its fiduciary duties to behave in good faith, consult fully and meaningfully, accommodate aboriginal interests, minimize infringements, and so on. It’s really not that complicated.

[gunpower]

I have always heard that the first nation people always stated that they, never owned the land as it was mother earth and nobody could own mother earth.

[igojuone]

I've haven't spent much time on HBC in awhile but I still see people are taking the Jelly Heads bait.

[Eastbranch]

http://aptn.ca/news/2014/08/05/gitxsan-moves-forward-evict-companies-leaving-room-negotiations/

[Eastbranch]

Only Sport Fishers and why is that ? - do sport fishers take SO many fish that the Local natives cannot eat and will starve ? :confused: Give us some answers there o mighty out to LUNCH ! :( RJ
No money in hunting. Sport fisheries in the region are vastly C&R (which is in itself a violation of their cultural practices but I doubt the centre of the issue). Fishing is a provincial money maker and hunting is not.

[srupp]

hmmm reminds me of the native school settlement...resulting $$$$4 resulted in several being maimed and killed rolling their new quads and side by sides...as a result a supreme court BC lawsuit by an injured native suing the govt because he got all this $$$ bought a side by side rolled it and now is paralyzed (this info is NOT due to my past employement )and is suing because he didn't have training and wisdom on what to do and how to spend this $$$)

Seen adds in the local paper advertising ANOTHER chance at a last chance final settlement for the native school hmmm thought the last one was last one??It will never end...now bands that have treaties think they got hosed because the Chilcotin one is better than theirs waaaaaahhhhh sniff..

It will never end the line up to the trough is long and noisy and disruptive...no corn left......

steven

[Eastbranch]

Unsurprisingly, none of the above post is in any way related to this case and only serves as inflammatory racism to derail the thread! Are you a paid troll for sun news? Wouldn't surprise me.

[Eastbranch]

This is a really good article on why the Skeena situation is so messed up:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/on-gitxsan-land-even-a-landmark-court-ruling-cant-bring-certainty/article19897595/

[srupp]

hmmm lol...no just another pissed off taxpayer who is retired and hasn't seen the CPP go up since?? alos happen to be one of those people who can only hunt and fish when the law allows certain species...
I post every one of my comments under my own name...do some home work..I one of the easy ones...you can read cant ewe ?
Relates ...only if standing in line whining and then whining when they get some then whining for more...there is no closure..then the first think the others got more than they did and on it goes...hmmm

sheeeesh

Steven

cheers

[srupp]

This is a really good article on why the Skeena situation is so messed up:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/on-gitxsan-land-even-a-landmark-court-ruling-cant-bring-certainty/article19897595/

hmmmm as I previously said and now QUOTE from your article boils down to " touchy territorial claim overlap"

hmmm individual bands are disputing ie fighting for a bigger share of the BC spoils amongst themselves...like 2 oppoasing laywers in a divorce stir the pot so they can get more $$$$..

my suggestion is the Chilcotin dispute involved an actual war...and is completely different than the rest of the anecdotal campfire myths about great grandma treestump and her recollections about when she was a girl and she is certain their village of Calgary was in their traditional territory and they often walked overnite from Clemtu on the coast to Calgary to trade gem grade diamonds for ceremonial treasury bonds 200 years ago.

cheers
Steven

[digginsweatinswearin]

Unsurprisingly, none of the above post is in any way related to this case and only serves as inflammatory racism to derail the thread! Are you a paid troll for sun news? Wouldn't surprise me.

Sun news, too funny. The first time I caught a bit if it after CITR I thought it was some kind of spoof of FOX news. Those folks are seriously messed up, and what is with that caveman they have anchoring it? Looks like some refugee from Soviet Russia in the 1960's

[Darksith]

No money in hunting. Sport fisheries in the region are vastly C&R (which is in itself a violation of their cultural practices but I doubt the centre of the issue). Fishing is a provincial money maker and hunting is not.

you might want to rethink that statement...can't remember the exact number but it was something like $230M annually from hunting in BC.

[Mulehahn]

This is a really good article on why the Skeena situation is so messed up:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/on-gitxsan-land-even-a-landmark-court-ruling-cant-bring-certainty/article19897595/

So I read the article. Let me see if I understand. Yes it is a complicated issue, but it is only being made worse by these threats. As far as I can tell the article clearly states that only 8 of the 60 hereditary chiefs signed and support the eviction, but is being forced down upon the remaining 52. And this really stems from the fact that they have a problem with neighbouring Bands who have an equal claim to the land. If I missed anything let me know.

Is anything being done? How are they enforcing this notice?

[Eastbranch]

you might want to rethink that statement...can't remember the exact number but it was something like $230M annually from hunting in BC.
Not in this area.

[Eastbranch]

So I read the article. Let me see if I understand. Yes it is a complicated issue, but it is only being made worse by these threats. As far as I can tell the article clearly states that only 8 of the 60 hereditary chiefs signed and support the eviction, but is being forced down upon the remaining 52. And this really stems from the fact that they have a problem with neighbouring Bands who have an equal claim to the land. If I missed anything let me know.

Is anything being done? How are they enforcing this notice?
Not much trickling out of the region via media. Plenty of rumours. One of the locals and a member here was up fishing at the babine confluence and ran into 8 FN's going dipnetting, reported to be an all smiles encounter. For every bad story, there's a good one. Moral of the story is if you are going to be there, keep calm and don't act like a racist twat.

[Darksith]

Not in this area.

again you are wrong, go to the politics section and seach expenditure survey. I assume now you are from smithers area as you talk about the mouth of the babine river. I am not from very far away either originally. There is a lot of economic benefit from hunting. All the LML people that come up to hunt spend their money getting there and staying there

[Eastbranch]

Absolutely miniscule compared to the sport fishery. Anyone thats ever been within 50mi of smithers in september knows that. What hunters are paying $5000-$7000/wk to catch a half dozen fish? Not from the valley or region but i get around ;) Keeping tabs on bc f&w mgmt is my hobby lol

[Bluedsteel]

You might want to brush up on what outfitters are charging for hunts these days, stone sheep hunts in particular.

[Eastbranch]

Might want to brush up on stone sheep distribution and gitxsan lax yip haha. Outfits in the area shoot a few goats, mostly moose and griz. Not a financial driver.

[Bluedsteel]

From what I read they were claiming 33000 square kilometers and as far north as iskut. You're telling me there's no stones in that size area lmao .......ok

[Bluedsteel]

http://m.digitaljournal.com/pr/2102759

[Darksith]

Absolutely miniscule compared to the sport fishery. Anyone thats ever been within 50mi of smithers in september knows that. What hunters are paying $5000-$7000/wk to catch a half dozen fish? Not from the valley or region but i get around ;) Keeping tabs on bc f&w mgmt is my hobby lol

There are a ton of hunting guides in that area...and guess what, they charge about $5000 for a moose hunt for a week...you would be surprised. That doesn't count the resident out of town hunters buying gas, food, plane ridesm and then there are the resident locals that are spending money all the time on hunting. I bet there is more money spent on hunting than fishing until you hit rupert and kitimat.

[Darksith]

Might want to brush up on stone sheep distribution and gitxsan lax yip haha. Outfits in the area shoot a few goats, mostly moose and griz. Not a financial driver.

Thats not true. Moose are the financial driver, grizz would be also if the guides would get a decent count of tags, but thats not the case these days unfortunately

[Eastbranch]

What part of not compared to sport fishing are you having a hard time understanding?

[Caribou_lou]

Might want to brush up on stone sheep distribution and gitxsan lax yip haha. Outfits in the area shoot a few goats, mostly moose and griz. Not a financial driver.

And FN's in that area shoot Cows, Calves and apply for Grizzly tags in Northern ares, 0.5 - 1 odds and shoot the bears up the Kispiox.

Was there any news today regarding the eviction? Has there been the last week? Has Nathan Cullen piped up supporting his voters? NOPE. You know why. One guess. Because Nobody repects what they are doing. It will come back to bite them. They will fail.

[ROY-alty33]

Let the $h!+ show begin they are going ahead with the blockade of the CN right of way.

[srupp]

Hmm bring in the army...economic terrorism...give em 25 years see how the next lot feel...no Oaka..fire the first shot what crapola...
Steven

[Eastbranch]

Death in the community. No action today. Was supposed to start last night. Shut up srupp.

[Peter Pepper]

Unsurprisingly, none of the above post is in any way related to this case and only serves as inflammatory racism to derail the thread! Are you a paid troll for sun news? Wouldn't surprise me.

Shure buddy, sun news needs to pay trolls. Funny. Most of their viewers are just average hard working Canadians who are happy to have a news organisation that reflects their values. We might not be as vocal as the lefty loony types, but that's because we are tired from working at keeping this country going.
That's why the CBC crowd is always so surprised when we quietly vote for the Conservatives, or BC Liberals.

[bwarwaruk]

Hmm bring in the army...economic terrorism...give em 25 years see how the next lot feel...no Oaka..fire the first shot what crapola...
Steven

Technically, the RCMP is in charge of anything within the borders of the country, the army is only brought in if the province requests it. Either way, lets hope this doesnt turn into another Oka. Calmer minds have to prevail before it gets out of hand, i.e. blocking a rail road.

[The Hermit]

Isn't there a commercial that says "its hard to stop (block) a tryanne."

[Jagermeister]

Death in the community. No action today. Was supposed to start last night. Shut up srupp.
Someone get run over by a train?

[Jagermeister]

How many of you remember the "October Crisis"?
Stopping the flow of commerce in the country is an act of war. IMO, the Prime Minister would be well within his rights to invoke the War Measures Act. Hell, I would fully endorse that declaration if the Gitskan escalate their proposal.

[Bluedsteel]

How many of you remember the "October Crisis"?
Stopping the flow of commerce in the country is an act of war. IMO, the Prime Minister would be well within his rights to invoke the War Measures Act. Hell, I would fully endorse that declaration if the Gitskan escalate their proposal.

I think the majority of tax paying Canadians would too Jagermeister and I hope the gov has the gonads to deal with these acts of terrorism and treason accordingly. This BS is only going to harm Canada and nothing positive can come out of it.

[adriaticum]

Up north it's always a good idea to carry a shotgun.
There are grizzly bears up there.

[srupp]

Death in the community. No action today. Was supposed to start last night. Shut up srupp.


Hmmm you obviously dont know me..shutting up is not an option
Untill you see the error of your ways..it is my privilege and may I say pleasure to correct your wrongful un Canadian misinformation.

We really should do coffee...you buy..

Cheers
You can call me Mr. RUPP

[Dannybuoy]

Hmmm you obviously dont know me..shutting up is not an option
Untill you see the error of your ways..it is my privilege and may I say pleasure to correct your wrongful un Canadian misinformation.

We really should do coffee...you buy..

Cheers
You can call me Mr. RUPP

Perfect Mr Rupp ... Its looking like the bear might have been poked once too many times :-D 100% in agreement with your views !

[doubled]

Mr. Rupp, kudos sir. Thanks for calling a spade a spade. I hope they keep it up, they will convert the sympathetic and understanding into racists. This will get ugly.

[Jelvis]

We're falling apart folks, spreading out from each other.
It's like a huge bar fight or a hockey Donny brook among us all.
The division is in progress towards separation anxiety in all colors in Canada.
We lost our image of the past as real polite into peee'd off and ready to drop the gloves.
Jel -- I hate to say it but you people have made a belieber out of this Canuck.

[adriaticum]

Hmmm you obviously dont know me..shutting up is not an option
Untill you see the error of your ways..it is my privilege and may I say pleasure to correct your wrongful un Canadian misinformation.

We really should do coffee...you buy..

Cheers
You can call me Mr. RUPP


You could take him out to lunch.
But, apparently, he is already there.

[doubled]

We are not falling apart. Are you kidding me? If anything, we are becoming united in this. FN will regret their approach if they keep doing it this way.

[Eastbranch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnWRFQnSGwY

[Eastbranch]

https://twitter.com/tlupick

[Eastbranch]

Here's some good faith negotiating. Gah
http://northcoastreview.blogspot.ca/2014/08/cn-seeks-supreme-court-relief-from.html

[doubled]

What is good faith? Blocking a rail line so parties are FORCED to negotiate??? AR, you may want to hold your tongue for a little while before your words come back to bite you

[jml11]

CN was successful in getting an injunction against any blockades on their lines according to this report:

http://cfnrfm.ca/cn-gets-court-injunction-gitxsan/

[Eastbranch]

What is good faith? Blocking a rail line so parties are FORCED to negotiate??? AR, you may want to hold your tongue for a little while before your words come back to bite you
Blah blah more empty threats from hbc tough guys

[Bluedsteel]

CN was successful in getting an injunction against any blockades on their lines according to this report:

http://cfnrfm.ca/cn-gets-court-injunction-gitxsan/

VERY nice!

[ROY-alty33]

Here's an idea leave the rest of the country out of it, and go get the land back from the other band (treaty negotiations where another band was offered "their":rolleyes:land started this mess, iirc) the old fashion way, your "traditional way".
Oh wait that might mean truly standing up for what you believe in, making a real sacrifice, and not collecting a big fat cheque from the government and businesses.

[doubled]

Blah blah more empty threats from hbc tough guys

No threat at all AR. Do you feel threatened? Is that the problem here? Fear breeds anger and you are one angry person right now.

[Eastbranch]

Ahahaha my people the Austrians. Lock it mods. Going nowhere!

[Jagermeister]

I just love the news release.
" The Gitxsan have served CN with an eviction notice and has said it plans to close down the rail line in its traditional territory from ten o’clock at night until six in the morning. "

Okay all you sportsfishermen and women, you can go fish to your hearts content between the hours of 6:30 AM until 9:30 PM. Just watch out for trains if you have need to cross CN trackage. LOL

[srupp]

Hmmm if I read the release the natives are doing this not because of the generous settlement they got at taxpayers expense no its because they think the next door band is getting a better deal !

Hmm now it gets interesting...they want us to respect the supreme court decision...lets see how they do with supreme court of BC decision..injunction realizing any bs regarding a Sc injunction decision raises the bar for infractions....no bingo next week...and the federal law regarding masks...

Cheers
Steven

[Bluedsteel]

Ahahaha my people the Austrians. Lock it mods. Going nowhere!

Austrian today, Asian or Native the next, whatever! You are obviously connected to the indians somehow. I completely disagree with everything you've said BUT you said it and no one else from the Gitxsan had the balls to say anything. Hopefully someday you'll realize that the Gitxcan would have done very well by making friends with Canada rather than extorting and making enemies of a powerful nation.

[RB2]

I have to say I agree. I am also 100% in favor of your views.

[RB2]

That was you views Mr. Rupp

[Eastbranch]

If your neigbour went to the city mayor and petitioned them to give him half your yard and the mayor gave it to him...how would you feel.

[Bluedsteel]

You mean like the Indians are doing to Canada?

[two-feet]

Dont picture the natives as one united front, the only people they disagree with more than us is each other. There are over 100 hereditary chiefs of the gitxan, only 8 signed the eviction notice. And as the latest statement said, the gitxan are in dispute with other bands over territory. The various houses within the gitxan pretty much cant stand each other. No meaningful settlement will ever be reached with that band until they can agree on what is what and that will be when pigs fly.

[bob the tomato]

you just have to love how we ALL love hunting and fishing and hate any poaching regardless of race. and yet if a race poaches on a day to day basis we are the racist for calling them out. I'm sorry but i really don't care who's poaching i want whats best for OUR resource. you know the one, us racists have paid for in huge dollars! to hunt and fish! but oh wait we're not indian so we're the racist for trying to protect it! I'm soo tired of trying to protect whats fair, if your white and poaching i hate you just as much as a indian who poaches on a status card. i really don't see the difference between a indian poacher and white or yellow or black or brown poacher.

[howa1500]

Said it before, and will say it again. Blockading, road blocks, etc, should all be considered acts of domestic terrorism. I think everyone in this fine country should be "Canadian", and no one should have any special status. Rules, laws, handouts, should be given fairly and evenly regardless of where or by who you were born.

[Darksith]

If your neigbour went to the city mayor and petitioned them to give him half your yard and the mayor gave it to him...how would you feel.

you make it sounds like you personally had a piece of land and the white man has taken it away. Well guess what, you didn't in that context. Your great great great great great grandfather might of had a piece of land that he walked frequently, and used it to supply things like food and materials for his family. Under the laws today, that hasn't changed. You are allowed to go and hunt whenever you want (I don't agree with it), you can go and harvest whatever you want for ceremonial purposes...nothing there has changed. The only thing that has changed is you might not be able to walk into an area that now holds a mine or something, but thats it, and those are few and far between. So why should you get to gain control of something that you personally never had control of, and restrict who goes there. Why can't I also go and walk that same piece of land, hunt animals on it for my family when the laws allow me too? Why do you get to tell us regular folk who are just like you that we aren't allowed to enjoy what we have grown up enjoying? The FN people are fighting for absolute control...you already have it really good, but you still want more. Its like the story "A moose and a muffin", if you give him this, he still won't be happy and will want more, so you keep giving and giving until he wants that muffin all over again...its getting ridiculous. Give up anything made from logging, give up anything made from oil, then say you don't want pipelines, logging etc etc and I will fully support you, but until you do that, you still want those things, just not from anywhere you can see...how hypocritical is that? Save our land, but please continue to take from others so I can have all the things in life I currently enjoy...why can't we do things in a way that incurs as little risk as possible to the environment, but still allows us to extract the things that our lives all need? This is so silly...I don't want it where I can see it, but I still want it! Come on. In the end its all about control (which is power) and money, and if you don't believe that then you too are allowing yourself to be deceived

[howa1500]

you make it sounds like you personally had a piece of land and the white man has taken it away. Well guess what, you didn't in that context. Your great great great great great grandfather might of had a piece of land that he walked frequently, and used it to supply things like food and materials for his family. Under the laws today, that hasn't changed. You are allowed to go and hunt whenever you want (I don't agree with it), you can go and harvest whatever you want for ceremonial purposes...nothing there has changed. The only thing that has changed is you might not be able to walk into an area that now holds a mine or something, but thats it, and those are few and far between. So why should you get to gain control of something that you personally never had control of, and restrict who goes there. Why can't I also go and walk that same piece of land, hunt animals on it for my family when the laws allow me too? Why do you get to tell us regular folk who are just like you that we aren't allowed to enjoy what we have grown up enjoying? The FN people are fighting for absolute control...you already have it really good, but you still want more. Its like the story "A moose and a muffin", if you give him this, he still won't be happy and will want more, so you keep giving and giving until he wants that muffin all over again...its getting ridiculous. Give up anything made from logging, give up anything made from oil, then say you don't want pipelines, logging etc etc and I will fully support you, but until you do that, you still want those things, just not from anywhere you can see...how hypocritical is that? Save our land, but please continue to take from others so I can have all the things in life I currently enjoy...why can't we do things in a way that incurs as little risk as possible to the environment, but still allows us to extract the things that our lives all need? This is so silly...I don't want it where I can see it, but I still want it! Come on. In the end its all about control (which is power) and money, and if you don't believe that then you too are allowing yourself to be deceived

Probably one of the best things I've ever read

[riflebuilder]

Probably one of the best things I've ever read

X2 very well said

[Eastbranch]

Hahaha. I am a pasty white resident hunter with no ties to the region. What part of that is hard to understand?

You still don't get it: According to our laws, the laws that founded this country and international human rights commissions, the vast majority of land in BC is un-ceded sovereign territory that is being occupied illegally by you, me, private companies (CN) and government. That is FACT and it is LAW. You don't have to like it, but you can't say its' not true. Ignoring the rights and title of First Nations in BC is like saying the world is flat. It's denying reality.

[Mulehahn]

Hahaha. I am a pasty white resident hunter with no ties to the region. What part of that is hard to understand?

You still don't get it: According to our laws, the laws that founded this country and international human rights commissions, the vast majority of land in BC is un-ceded sovereign territory that is being occupied illegally by you, me, private companies (CN) and government. That is FACT and it is LAW. You don't have to like it, but you can't say its' not true. Ignoring the rights and title of First Nations in BC is like saying the world is flat. It's denying reality.

Yes the latest court SCC states that Aboriginal Title must be taken into consideration. But the ruling only applies to one specific band having title. It did not settle the issues regarding what Band can claim title over any other area beyond those claimed by the Tsilhqot'in. The Gitsxan still have to prove title over the land, and prove their claims trump any other bands claims. They can't, so they have resorted to these tactics. That court case was limited in specifics, but very broad in definition. It will take years, possibly decades to fully realize the implications from it.

What the law clearly states today is that blockades, whether on roads or train tracks, are illegal as declared by the higher courts. It is also illegal to wear a mask while protesting. If you agree with these laws or not is irrelevant, they are the law and must be applied to everyone. If you choose to break these laws you should be arrested, charged and if found guilty punished. I personally oppose the "mask" law, but if I were to violate it I would expect to be arrested and charged. I cannot choose what laws I follow. There are plenty of legal ways to express your dissatisfaction. It is well documented numerous times that if a non-aboriginal groups tries these tactics they are given a short period of time to stop or they are arrested. Why does the same not hold true for FNs? If the laws of this country, as they stand, were applied equally to everyone I firmly believe that a lot of these "feelings" would reduce.

[steel_ram]

Mask's are for those racist bigots of Eastern Europe who march unwanted civilians into the woods never to return. I will never obey someone who hides their identity behind a mask.

[Gr8 white hunter]

http://youtu.be/WSjMuKh1Wpo have a listen.

[ruger#1]

Mask's are for those racist bigots of Eastern Europe who march unwanted civilians into the woods never to return. I will never obey someone who hides their identity behind a mask. You will if it is Batman.

[Eastbranch]

http://youtu.be/WSjMuKh1Wpo have a listen.
To what? A halfwit singalong made by somebody who didn't graduate grade 12.....wtf

The Gitxsan do not have to prove title. Their title to their traditional, unceded, sovereign territory was established by British colonial law, Canadian law, Canadian Constitution, Delgamuukw and UN declaration, in that order. How much more establishment do you want?

The problem is none of you know what you are talking about and are exactly why this is only going to get worse for residents before (if) it gets better. You are uneducated and have no respect for their rights.

[charlie_horse]

Arctic I think your just too stubborn to realize that your last sentence is what people have a problem with. their[I] rights, when it should be [I]our rights.

[srupp]

Hmmm it all boils down to one side wanting, demanding, and adding absolutley nothing to the society called Canada..while the other side is working their asses off paying fed prov muni anf sales taxes...doing their best kinda brutal to see those only getting off their asses to whine bitch and break the law and demand more...pathetic as is your continuing gloating at this...

Steven

[Eastbranch]

Arctic I think your just too stubborn to realize that your last sentence is what people have a problem with. their[I] rights, when it should be [I]our rights.
You can have a problem with it all you want, but you'd be in the wrong. You don't have a right to that land. They do. Period. Get over it.

[charlie_horse]

They have the right, but they shouldn't. They don't deserve it more than any other person. No one will get over it nor does anyone ever have to. The only thing your right about is that the law is the law, you couldn't drink on Sundays at one point either though. It is just flat out wrong on every level.

[Eastbranch]

What does 'deserve' have to do with anything? They have occupied, and by that occupation, owned it for the last 12,000 years, minimum. Are against private property ownership? Or just against First Nations private property ownership? One makes you a communist, one makes you a racist.

[charlie_horse]

To put it bluntly, I don't give a $#@! if they were the first two legged creatures to walk the planet, and I guarantee most other than the vocal minority agree with that sentiment. Society has evolved and grown and they should to. Stop playing the racist card because I'm very far from it. You throw it around way to lightly, your posts are asinine and your the problem not part of the solution you claim to be. This thread should be locked.

[kilometers]

What does 'deserve' have to do with anything? They have occupied, and by that occupation, owned it for the last 12,000 years, minimum. Are against private property ownership? Or just against First Nations private property ownership? One makes you a communist, one makes you a racist.

That's complete bs 15 to 10000 years ago the glaciers were up to 3000 feet thick and flowed down the valleys to kitimat and Rupert. That's why mountains that are higher then. 4000 feet are rugged and straight peaks( seven sisters etc ) and mtns under 4000 feet are rounded off from the glaciers grinding away at them

[limit time]

What does 'deserve' have to do with anything? They have occupied, and by that occupation, owned it for the last 12,000 years, minimum. Are against private property ownership? Or just against First Nations private property ownership? One makes you a communist, one makes you a racist.
What band are you connected to?

[Eastbranch]

Re-writing the geological and archaeological history of the province I see.
http://qmackie.com/2013/01/24/new-finds-from-skeena-river-near-gitwangak/

[sawmill]

Hey AR the FN are claiming 100% of B.C.I guess you better get the hell off their land too.Go back to whatever weird hippy land your ancesters came from.Who knows,maybe you are a hereditary Chief there.You could be making a million dollars (I almost said bucks,but that`s racist) a year too.

[Eastbranch]

What band are you connected to?
19th century Austrian and Scottish immigrants?

[Eastbranch]

As soon as the facts start coming down, the personal insults start flying.

[ruger#1]

As soon as the facts start coming down, the personal insults start flying.

Maybe you should go back and read your own posts. You seem to be doing more then any of the guys here. You remind me of PGKRIS

[kilometers]

Re-writing the geological and archaeological history of the province I see.
http://qmackie.com/2013/01/24/new-finds-from-skeena-river-near-gitwangak/

Anyway, if anyone knows exactly how the 9000 year old estimate is reached, post in the comments! I got the impression the early date was not from radiocarbon dating, so perhaps stylistic characteristics of artifacts?

[kootenayelkslayer]

You remind me of PGKRIS

Funny you should say that. His abrasive, stubborn, and insulting way of discussing issues also reminds me of PGKris, with a hint of Tinney.

[kilometers]

Gitxan announce temporary suspension of eviction
notice

http://www.250news.com/blog/view/32903/1/gitxsan+announce+temporary+suspension+of+eviction+ notice

[russm]

Funny you should say that. His abrasive, stubborn, and insulting way of discussing issues also reminds me of PGKris, with a hint of Tinney.

Funny, it reminds me of a troll that's probably sitting infront of his monitor googling facts as he needs to while he lives in the basement of his parents house

[Gateholio]

Maybe you should go back and read your own posts. You seem to be doing more then any of the guys here. You remind me of PGKRIS

I assume you are just making a joke, but in case you weren't...

Yes, ArcticRed is PGKris, the guy that claimed there were "herds of hybrid mule/WT deer" running around somewhere in BC. :)

He has had many names on HBC, usually gets banned because he has trouble keeping his cool and starts calling people racists, poachers, envirocriminals, etc. :)

I assume he has finished studying biology and is now no longer in PG but somewhere in the arctic.

[RB2]

19th century Austrian and Scottish immigrants?
Explains why your location is out to lunch.

[Sitkaspruce]

I assume you are just making a joke, but in case you weren't...

Yes, ArcticRed is PGKris, the guy that claimed there were "herds of hybrid mule/WT deer" running around somewhere in BC. :)

He has had many names on HBC, usually gets banned because he has trouble keeping his cool and starts calling people racists, poachers, envirocriminals, etc. :)

I assume he has finished studying biology and is now no longer in PG but somewhere in the arctic.

Thats just too funny!!!!!! They just cannot stay away, we are like a drug that they need to survive.

I needed a good laugh today and got it!!

Thanks Gates!!!

Welcome back PGKris or ArcticRed or what ever name you dream up while freezing your A$$ off up north.

Cheers

SS

[Lucky77_]

FN's are like fleas on a dogs back arguing over who owns the dog. Nobody does you idiots ! Just like any other parasite leaching off there host. Waiting for the next free meal till the host dies, then on to the next.

[Caribou_lou]

Gitxan announce temporary suspension of eviction
notice

http://www.250news.com/blog/view/32903/1/gitxsan+announce+temporary+suspension+of+eviction+ notice

Big talk a couple days ago. Now this???

Im thinking they noticed how little support they have. The Kitwanga gas station has seen a huge decline in business.

[Beachcomber]

the guy that claimed there were "herds of hybrid mule/WT deer" running around somewhere in BC. :).

You mean there aren't?

[burger]

FN's are like fleas on a dogs back arguing over who owns the dog. Nobody does you idiots ! Just like any other parasite leaching off there host. Waiting for the next free meal till the host dies, then on to the next.

Were all parasites.

[.330 Dakota]

If your neigbour went to the city mayor and petitioned them to give him half your yard and the mayor gave it to him...how would you feel.

I would feel stupid,as in my neighbor was obviously smarter than me,,,live and learn, dont be sour about it. If they keep pushing this crap theyre gonna meet the army, just like OKA

[Papa Sasquatch]

Big talk a couple days ago. Now this???

Im thinking they noticed how little support they have. The Kitwanga gas station has seen a huge decline in business.
That is good news. I hope the word spreads until they realize where the free money comes from!

[doubled]

I love it. PGKris = @#$%@ and their businesses are now suffering. Hmmm, weird how it unfolds like that.

[Jagermeister]

Hot off the press.

TERRACE, B.C. - Eviction notices to CN Rail, forest companies and sport fishermen given by a British Columbia First Nation have been suspended after the Gitxsan band met with provincial and federal governments on Thursday.
Gitxsan negotiator Beverley Clifton Percival says the nation received a written statement from government after the meeting that said Crown may amend an agreement-in-principle that signed away lands claimed by the Gitxsan to the Kitselas and Kitsumkalum bands.
Percival says the signing was done without the consent of her First Nation and therefore was illegal, but added she is hopeful talks in the coming weeks will resolve the dispute.
The Gitxsan is suspending evictions until Aug. 25 while the First Nation meets with Crown, the Kitselas and the Kitsumkalum.
The band issued a notice last month telling CN, foresters and fishermen to leave the 33,000 square kilometres of territories it claims near Terrace, in northern B.C., by Aug. 4.
The Gitxsan had also previously accused government of licensing businesses to operate on its territories without the First Nation's consent.

[f350ps]

^^^ Hot off the press two days ago, but thanks anyways! Check post #114! K

[Papa Sasquatch]

It took two days to put the Jagermeister down

[sawmill]

Ho Hum,same shit,different day.Life will go on.

[boxhitch]

The Gitxsan do not have to prove title. Their title to their traditional, unceded, sovereign territory was established by British colonial law, Canadian law, Canadian Constitution, Delgamuukw and UN declaration, in that order. How much more establishment do you want?

The problem is none of you know what you are talking about and are exactly why this is only going to get worse for residents before (if) it gets better. You are uneducated and have no respect for their rights.


the vast majority of land in BC is un-ceded sovereign territory that is being occupied illegally by you, me, private companies (CN) and government. That is FACT and it is LAW. You don't have to like it, but you can't say its' not true. Ignoring the rights and title of First Nations in BC is like saying the world is flat. It's denying reality.

Rights and Title are two very different entities , don't combine or confuse the two. Titles were never given to indians under Colonial rule
Many 'rights' are being claimed and fabricated in this struggle.

[Wild one]

Shock shock they got there meeting

Govt needs to stop caving into the extortion tactics and threats FN bands make to get what they want.

It is no different than a kid or dog getting rewarded for bad behaviour it shows that acting out will get them what they want and they will keep doing it because it works

[Jagermeister]

Shock shock they got there meeting

Govt needs to stop caving into the extortion tactics and threats FN bands make to get what they want.

It is no different than a kid or dog getting rewarded for bad behaviour it shows that acting out will get them what they want and they will keep doing it because it works
Ain't that the truth.

[Mulehahn]

Will see what happens on the 25th. I highly doubt the 2 Tsimshian bands will easily give up the disputed lands that they have proven to have occupied and used just as long as the Gitsxan. That will always be a problem, borders between bands were never solid. If the government caves to the Gitsxan then I would expect to a similar actions taken by the Tsimshian. Then we will have the same issue on our hands. It doesn't matter which devil you make a deal with, you still lose your soul.

[Cordillera]

We should all be thankful this didn't blow up as was predicted.

[Darksith]

There should be no negotiations, treaties or settlements with the FN people until they can agree on a map drawn up by them to claim only 100% of BC!

[Jelvis]

100 % and the extra 20 for the stuffs underground, to the center of dee earth.
And out to the ocean shore at extra low tides.
Up in the air to the other side. Over there hahaha I made yah look.
I'm losin it folks getting down a bit, sorry give me a minute .........________

[coug]

The Gitxsan do not have to prove title. Their title to their traditional, unceded, sovereign territory was established by British colonial law, Canadian law, Canadian Constitution, Delgamuukw and UN declaration, in that order. How much more establishment do you want?

I agree with you on this point.



Hmmm it all boils down to one side wanting, demanding, and adding absolutley nothing to the society called Canada..while the other side is working their asses off paying fed prov muni anf sales taxes.....

Not sure what you mean by "the other side". There are many "other sides" There are Chinese, East Indians, Polish, Russians, Filipinos and of course the representatives of the British isles. Many of the latter seem to think that they are the cat's meow, because it is their language that is now officially spoken in Canada and because they have managed to occupy the majority of the key government and business leadership positions. The truth is, we live in a completely disintegrated society with diminishing values. The only type of bond is the $.

I view the Chilcotin ruling giving land title to the First Nation group as a good thing. Let's hope First Nations will manage their lands the way they've done that in the past and will preserve wildlife, forests, fish and fish habitat.

It has been made abundantly clear that if the management of Crown Land is left up to the Crown, it will all be chopped up into little pieces, developed, exploited and sold for a profit in Canada and abroad. There will be no regard for any wildlife species or even human life.

The cards have been laid on the table in the form of

1) refusal to sign any international agreements to reduce greenhouse emissions,
2)gutting out environmental policies and reducing staff, to allow for the quick approval of projects harmful to the Canadian society
3)polluting thousands of square kilometers with toxic waste in Alberta, portraying it as a sustainable practice
4) approving of completely insane pipelines running for thousands of kilometers across rugged landscape and prone to earthquakes, landslides, acts of sabotage or human error.
5) declaring that water coming from a mine tailings pond is of drinkable quality and ignoring the long term impact of the waste dumped into pristine salmon habitat
6) non-stop development and plans for more mines

......there is no end to it.....hopefully the First Nations will do better than that.

[BULLNUTTS]

Thanx gate!! Jus about fell off my rocker there lol lol lol OH boy!! Thats sweet! And here I was starting to thing someones had just married ugly! hahaha A great lift here in the sunspun popcorn waite for the great picture to unfold as we aproach our season general opener. Awesome!! Good Huntin BULLNUTTS

[Goose]

I agree with you on this point.



Not sure what you mean by "the other side". There are many "other sides" There are Chinese, East Indians, Polish, Russians, Filipinos and of course the representatives of the British isles. Many of the latter seem to think that they are the cat's meow, because it is their language that is now officially spoken in Canada and because they have managed to occupy the majority of the key government and business leadership positions. The truth is, we live in a completely disintegrated society with diminishing values. The only type of bond is the $.

I view the Chilcotin ruling giving land title to the First Nation group as a good thing. Let's hope First Nations will manage their lands the way they've done that in the past and will preserve wildlife, forests, fish and fish habitat.

It has been made abundantly clear that if the management of Crown Land is left up to the Crown, it will all be chopped up into little pieces, developed, exploited and sold for a profit in Canada and abroad. There will be no regard for any wildlife species or even human life.

The cards have been laid on the table in the form of

1) refusal to sign any international agreements to reduce greenhouse emissions,
2)gutting out environmental policies and reducing staff, to allow for the quick approval of projects harmful to the Canadian society
3)polluting thousands of square kilometers with toxic waste in Alberta, portraying it as a sustainable practice
4) approving of completely insane pipelines running for thousands of kilometers across rugged landscape and prone to earthquakes, landslides, acts of sabotage or human error.
5) declaring that water coming from a mine tailings pond is of drinkable quality and ignoring the long term impact of the waste dumped into pristine salmon habitat
6) non-stop development and plans for more mines

......there is no end to it.....hopefully the First Nations will do better than that.

So im just curious, and not trying to stir the pot here, but in giving the land to the FN, would that just not allow them to allow the land to " be chopped up into little pieces, developed, exploited and sold for a profit in Canada and abroad" and instead of the province and the country getting the tax and development money, it will go to the FN.

I could be totally wrong here. But it just seems like the "profit" coming from the businesses the resulting developments are going to happen one way or another. Its just who get the dividends at the end.

The FN will still be getting their cheques from the Canadian/Provincial Government, and tax breaks from everywhere else. Will allowing them to have this land, allow "us" as taxpayers to give them smaller allotted cheques? Or make them pay more income tax, or take them off social assistance?

Is this going to help them stand on their own two feet and join the rest of Canada in following one law and everyone becoming equal?

What will giving them this land actually do for the FN community as a whole? Will this allow them to operate their own "country" within a country?
Im just really lost on what "giving" them this land is all about? At the end of the day what purpose does it REALLY serve?

Just my thoughts and questions, hope I haven't stepped on toes....

Cheers

[coug]

So im just curious, and not trying to stir the pot here, but in giving the land to the FN, would that just not allow them to allow the land to " be chopped up into little pieces, developed, exploited and sold for a profit in Canada and abroad" and instead of the province and the country getting the tax and development money, it will go to the FN.

.............

I could be totally wrong here. But it just seems like the "profit" coming from the businesses the resulting developments are going to happen one way or another.

.............

What will giving them this land actually do for the FN community as a whole? Will this allow them to operate their own "country" within a country?
Im just really lost on what "giving" them this land is all about? At the end of the day what purpose does it REALLY serve?

............



On the first question my answer is "Yes".

They can do the same thing. However, we do not yet know what they would do.

We only know for certain that if the Canadian Government manages the land, it will be destroyed. Period.

To be able to think about sustainability and environment conservation one has to be able to think outside the scope of a human's life. Rome has been built over hundreds of years. Culture also takes hundreds or thousands of years to foster. You cannot expect that type of commitment from the typical shoot-from-the-hip Canadian politician.

On the second part:
The resulting development may or may not happen. It all depends on how spoiled the First Nations have become over the years. If they still really maintain their traditional principles and values, development should not happen.

On the third question, my guess is "Yes". I do not see how and why the Canadian government would be managing something they have no jurisdiction over. If they cannot manage it, there should be another management body / government.



At the end of the day what purpose does it REALLY serve?
That I do not know. Not sure why one would conquer a nation; then declare the nation was not conquered in its constitution and then based on this finding, return all lands back.

As I said, based on the horrific anti-environmental agenda of the current government, this is the only way to hinder development. Maybe the judges in the Chilcotin case had that in mind.

[limit time]

I agree with you on this point.



Not sure what you mean by "the other side". There are many "other sides" There are Chinese, East Indians, Polish, Russians, Filipinos and of course the representatives of the British isles. Many of the latter seem to think that they are the cat's meow, because it is their language that is now officially spoken in Canada and because they have managed to occupy the majority of the key government and business leadership positions. The truth is, we live in a completely disintegrated society with diminishing values. The only type of bond is the $.

I view the Chilcotin ruling giving land title to the First Nation group as a good thing. Let's hope First Nations will manage their lands the way they've done that in the past and will preserve wildlife, forests, fish and fish habitat.

It has been made abundantly clear that if the management of Crown Land is left up to the Crown, it will all be chopped up into little pieces, developed, exploited and sold for a profit in Canada and abroad. There will be no regard for any wildlife species or even human life.

The cards have been laid on the table in the form of

1) refusal to sign any international agreements to reduce greenhouse emissions,
2)gutting out environmental policies and reducing staff, to allow for the quick approval of projects harmful to the Canadian society
3)polluting thousands of square kilometers with toxic waste in Alberta, portraying it as a sustainable practice
4) approving of completely insane pipelines running for thousands of kilometers across rugged landscape and prone to earthquakes, landslides, acts of sabotage or human error.
5) declaring that water coming from a mine tailings pond is of drinkable quality and ignoring the long term impact of the waste dumped into pristine salmon habitat
6) non-stop development and plans for more mines

......there is no end to it.....hopefully the First Nations will do better than that.
Two posts eh? Did arctic red or jelvis send smoke signals for help?

[limit time]

...Dark side of the moon jel ?? You should go check it out...

[Darksith]

The cards have been laid on the table in the form of

1) refusal to sign any international agreements to reduce greenhouse emissions,
2)gutting out environmental policies and reducing staff, to allow for the quick approval of projects harmful to the Canadian society
3)polluting thousands of square kilometers with toxic waste in Alberta, portraying it as a sustainable practice
4) approving of completely insane pipelines running for thousands of kilometers across rugged landscape and prone to earthquakes, landslides, acts of sabotage or human error.
5) declaring that water coming from a mine tailings pond is of drinkable quality and ignoring the long term impact of the waste dumped into pristine salmon habitat
6) non-stop development and plans for more mines

......there is no end to it.....hopefully the First Nations will do better than that.

I completely disagree with the bold items above.
First, I won't disagree that they are gutting the workforce, which is something I don't agree with, but I do not believe these projects are harmful to Candian society. We all drive a truck, use a smartphone, live in a house. All of these things require resources. So to say that we don't need these resources is extremely hypocritical of someone when they are typing on a keyboard in front of a computer that was built from the resources that they claim we don't need and are harmful. But I guess its OK as long as its in someone elses back yard right? Everything in life has some level of risk. How we manage that risk is what sets us apart. I believe that we can develop and extract resources in a way that doesn't destroy the land. Its just us making sure the government forces the companies that do it is the tricky part.

I have seen a few pipeline right of ways, also many underground fiber optic right of ways, and we have all seen BC Hydro right of ways. I don't believe they ruined the land. A thin line void of trees isn't ruining anything is it? Again, calculated and controlled risk. We are smart enough and have the technology to do it right, we just need to ensure the government makes it so.

The water is safe to drink, that doesn't mean and they haven't said that everything is OK...quit picking snippets for personal arguments when no one has said that the ground is just fine. Its obviously not, but the water can be safe.

[coug]

I completely disagree with the bold items above.
First, I won't disagree that they are gutting the workforce, which is something I don't agree with, but I do not believe these projects are harmful to Candian society. We all drive a truck, use a smartphone, live in a house. All of these things require resources. So to say that we don't need these resources is extremely hypocritical

The pipelines are not meant to provide resources to the Canadian people. They are planned to deliver oil to China or the US for an ever increasing population. You cannot keep on adding people on the planet, then claim they all need a house and a truck, start digging here and there and pretend it is all "Sustainable development". It is all political BS. None of them know what is sustainable and what not. We may well be beyond the point of no return already!

I ride a bicycle by the way. Don't see too many others do it. They seem to like their trucks too much.


The water is safe to drink, that doesn't mean and they haven't said that everything is OK...quit picking snippets for personal arguments when no one has said that the ground is just fine. Its obviously not, but the water can be safe.

I will really like to see that mine's CEO who initially made the statement about the drinkable water start drinking water from his own tailings pond for a year to show the public he is right.

I am not related to ArcticRed, PGkris, Jelvis or anyone else you've seen on this site.

[olympia]

Two posts eh? Did arctic red or jelvis send smoke signals for help?

Such an ignorant thing to say. Only smoke in this situation would be from your tires if you were this cocky in person

[limit time]

Such an ignorant thing to say. Only smoke in this situation would be from your tires if you were this cocky in person
HA HA! You da man! Or woman?

[limit time]

The pipelines are not meant to provide resources to the Canadian people. They are planned to deliver oil to China or the US for an ever increasing population. You cannot keep on adding people on the planet, then claim they all need a house and a truck, start digging here and there and pretend it is all "Sustainable development". It is all political BS. None of them know what is sustainable and what not. We may well be beyond the point of no return already!

I ride a bicycle by the way. Don't see too many others do it. They seem to like their trucks too much.



I will really like to see that mine's CEO who initially made the statement about the drinkable water start drinking water from his own tailings pond for a year to show the public he is right.

I am not related to ArcticRed, PGkris, Jelvis or anyone else you've seen on this site.
Why would you mention PGKris? I ride a bike also, same with my son and the neighbour kid down the street...but I find a truck easier for hunting.

[olympia]

HA HA! You da man! Or woman?

your response to my post was your 666th, you really are a she devil

[coug]

Why would you mention PGKris?

That's kind of a long story. First of all, I ended up on this board by googling "Gixstan eviction notice" since I wanted to find out what happened on August 25.

There were two relevant threads on this board, although old, and in one of them someone mentioned that ArcticRed and PGKris were the same guy.

I still do not know what happened on August 25 and if the eviction notice is still in effect.

[Papa Sasquatch]

Too many people on this planet... Lets start the eviction process.

[deadlyshot19]

I completely disagree with the bold items above.
First, I won't disagree that they are gutting the workforce, which is something I don't agree with, but I do not believe these projects are harmful to Candian society. We all drive a truck, use a smartphone, live in a house. All of these things require resources. So to say that we don't need these resources is extremely hypocritical of someone when they are typing on a keyboard in front of a computer that was built from the resources that they claim we don't need and are harmful. But I guess its OK as long as its in someone elses back yard right? Everything in life has some level of risk. How we manage that risk is what sets us apart. I believe that we can develop and extract resources in a way that doesn't destroy the land. Its just us making sure the government forces the companies that do it is the tricky part.

I have seen a few pipeline right of ways, also many underground fiber optic right of ways, and we have all seen BC Hydro right of ways. I don't believe they ruined the land. A thin line void of trees isn't ruining anything is it? Again, calculated and controlled risk. We are smart enough and have the technology to do it right, we just need to ensure the government makes it so.

The water is safe to drink, that doesn't mean and they haven't said that everything is OK...quit picking snippets for personal arguments when no one has said that the ground is just fine. Its obviously not, but the water can be safe.

I 100% agree with you Darksith, these projects are fueling economy and societies standard of living. In my opinion if you disagree with these project you probably haven't read enough about them. Also Darksith hit the nail on the head as far as the tailing pond spill. Tests were done and reported for human safety not environmental impact, and let me tell you there is going to be a lot of follow up made in that department.

[coug]

these projects are fueling economy and societies standard of living.

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with the above.

More jobs? Canada brings over 250,000 people from abroad each year promising them jobs even in years when unemployment is at top rates.

Better standard of living? Everyone will tell you that what people earned in the past had a higher buying power than waht they make now (apart from business managers, government officials and selected few occupations).

When the spill happens, because it will as all statistics show, we will be enjoying one heck of a lifestyle!

[Fisher-Dude]

Hey Kris, you didn't have to create a new account. It was just a temporary ban, ya know.

[coug]

Hey Kris, you didn't have to create a new account. It was just a temporary ban, ya know.

Kris is a Canadian born guy. I'm just an immigrant. You haven't sensed the difference yet? My English must be getting good :-)

Is there any update on the eviction notice since August 25?

[Fisher-Dude]

Kris is a Canadian born guy. I'm just an immigrant. You haven't sensed the difference yet? My English must be getting good :-)

Is there any update on the eviction notice since August 25?

How do you know Kris is a Canadian born guy? By his name, he could be European. Funny you'd know that. Really funny.

The plot thickens. BTW, those proxy servers work like a hot damn, eh?

[coug]

The plot thickens. BTW, those proxy servers work like a hot damn, eh?

It is not a big deal for the person who created this site to get a user's IP address and then track down the user's location, maybe even get his name from the confirmation e-mail the user has to send. I'd be stupid to think that I remain anonymous.

[Eastbranch]

Hey Kris, you didn't have to create a new account. It was just a temporary ban, ya know.
Scary for you to find out other people think like me!?

[burger]

Scary for you to find out other people think like me!?

Or you made two accounts.

[edgar11]

Scary for you to find out other people think like me!?

Its funny AR that some guys on this thread "think" they represent the "Majority" of the Non-Native People of Canada. They fail to realize that we are a very diverse Country and in fact, "they" are most likely "the Minority" in their way of thinking. I am guessing that the majority of them are old retired fellas who have nothing better to do than complain about one thing or another. I have found there are about 1/2 dozen or a dozen of them or so who preach the "one law for all" motto and see it no other way. In reality, we all follow the Canadian Law but they don't like it when it does not profit them in any way. It's funny also that they spit out derogatory comments(waiting for the cheque,handout etc.) about FN people but claim they are NOT Racist. Its sad really that people always have to look at the "Negative" in situations and can't see one positive in anything. It is not really a good way to live your life and it will give you an ulcer if nothing else. Cheers. :-D

[Dannybuoy]

Its funny AR that some guys on this thread "think" they represent the "Majority" of the Non-Native People of Canada. They fail to realize that we are a very diverse Country and in fact, "they" are most likely "the Minority" in their way of thinking. I am guessing that the majority of them are old retired fellas who have nothing better to do than complain about one thing or another. I have found there are about 1/2 dozen or a dozen of them or so who preach the "one law for all" motto and see it no other way. In reality, we all follow the Canadian Law but they don't like it when it does not profit them in any way. It's funny also that they spit out derogatory comments(waiting for the cheque,handout etc.) about FN people but claim they are NOT Racist. Its sad really that people always have to look at the "Negative" in situations and can't see one positive in anything. It is not really a good way to live your life and it will give you an ulcer if nothing else. Cheers. :-D
Name one positive that could possibly come from this for canadians ?? If you can come up with anything ...weigh that against all the negatives and you will undoubtedly come up with the same conclusion as most of the other posters . Your welcome !

[Mishka]

Its funny AR that some guys on this thread "think" they represent the "Majority" of the Non-Native People of Canada. They fail to realize that we are a very diverse Country and in fact, "they" are most likely "the Minority" in their way of thinking. I am guessing that the majority of them are old retired fellas who have nothing better to do than complain about one thing or another. I have found there are about 1/2 dozen or a dozen of them or so who preach the "one law for all" motto and see it no other way. In reality, we all follow the Canadian Law but they don't like it when it does not profit them in any way. It's funny also that they spit out derogatory comments(waiting for the cheque,handout etc.) about FN people but claim they are NOT Racist. Its sad really that people always have to look at the "Negative" in situations and can't see one positive in anything. It is not really a good way to live your life and it will give you an ulcer if nothing else. Cheers. :-D

I disagree. I think the pendulum is swinging. Slowly. I'm as far as it gets from being an "old retired fella". All my family and most of my friends are non-hunters. They're generally a pretty liberal bunch and they all think the government needs to put their foot down and stop all the payouts and back bending. It's ridiculous. One law for all Canadians. How can that be racist?

By the way, I don't use native to represent Indians anymore because, well, I'm a native as well. Born and raised in Canada and I'm white.

[srupp]

Hmm its coming when 40 % of the baby boomers start retiring...the taxes they have paid...to see old age retirement disapear...and cpp go to age 70 before benifits start...they will look at the obscene handouts to chiefs...the cost of indians blocking Canadas future for their outrageous terrorist demands yup keep on pissing on the hand that feeds you...every day is affecting more and more Canadians...Cpp wont be strengthened so those that paid into that system can survive..news flash..cuz your born on a rez is meaning less and less as each Canadian realizes what a pathetic leech this system is you want a car? Go get a job pay the taxes and full fuel prices..realize we the tax payers are so done with giving you a free pass while you demand more and shut down the ecenomic machine that produces the revenue..through the taxpayer..
Hmmm far from racist....itsvthose demanding more freebees cuz of some inherent belief that they are special...you are special..no get to the back of the short yellow school bus and shut up.
Im fiirst nation

I too was born in Canada
Steven

[edgar11]

Name one positive that could possibly come from this for canadians ?? If you can come up with anything ...weigh that against all the negatives and you will undoubtedly come up with the same conclusion as most of the other posters . Your welcome !

The one most important part of all of this is the preservation of our beautiful, prestine Lands and resources. I think if you poll the population, most will all agree that this is the most important part of the equation no matter what color or ethnic backround you come from. Do you not think that this is a positive Dannybuoy? Who else is going to fight for this? The government? People arguing their woes on the internet? You can put whatever kind of twist on this as you want to but this is the bottom line. Period.

[edgar11]

"Hmm its coming when 40 % of the baby boomers start retiring...the taxes they have paid...to see old age retirement disapear...and cpp go to age 70 before benifits start...they will look at the obscene handouts to chiefs...the cost of indians blocking Canadas future for their outrageous terrorist demands yup keep on pissing on the hand that feeds you...every day is affecting more and more Canadians...Cpp wont be strengthened so those that paid into that system can survive..news flash..cuz your born on a rez is meaning less and less as each Canadian realizes what a pathetic leech this system is you want a car? Go get a job pay the taxes and full fuel prices..realize we the tax payers are so done with giving you a free pass while you demand more and shut down the ecenomic machine that produces the revenue..through the taxpayer..
Hmmm far from racist....itsvthose demanding more freebees cuz of some inherent belief that they are special...you are special..no get to the back of the short yellow school bus and shut up.
Im fiirst nation

I too was born in Canada
Steven"

Whats your point Rupp? Are paying me some kind of "handout" and therefore seem entitled to rant to me? Well "news flash" Champ, I too pay taxes and therefore "I" am paying "YOUR" Handout(Pension) or whatever retirement payment you are getting or will be getting very soon. So should I now complain to you how much of a drain you are on "MY" paycheck? You need to realize that times have changed and some FN People actually have jobs and pay taxes like everyone else. Guess what? We also vote too? Go figure. Did you realize that the Lieutenant Governor of Canada was a FN person? Just saying..............

[olympia]

I disagree. I think the pendulum is swinging. Slowly. I'm as far as it gets from being an "old retired fella". All my family and most of my friends are non-hunters. They're generally a pretty liberal bunch and they all think the government needs to put their foot down and stop all the payouts and back bending. It's ridiculous. One law for all Canadians. How can that be racist?

By the way, I don't use native to represent Indians anymore because, well, I'm a native as well. Born and raised in Canada and I'm white.

Mishka didn't say its racist to say "one law for all" he said its racist to make innuendoes about waiting for cheques. I guess I can add a 3rd thing to his comment, angry men trying to change the topic when called out.

[Mishka]

Mishka didn't say its racist to say "one law for all" he said its racist to make innuendoes about waiting for cheques. I guess I can add a 3rd thing to his comment, angry men trying to change the topic when called out.

Me trying to change the topic? No. Based on his posts, edgar11 seems to have an issue with the concept of all Canadians being treated equally. That's the basis of my earlier post. If I'm wrong, he can correct me. I get the innuendoes about waiting for cheques, etc. especially if he's a working, tax paying First Nation. And people need to bite their tongue, but I tell ya', it's getting harder and harder not to generalize. I'm not racist at all. I just don't like what's going on.

[srupp]

Hmm yes some natives do have jobs..there are exceptions..actually plenty of them...however the demands have gotten way out of hand..
And if you are paying my pension? Can I have a raise? Please.....thank you....
Cheers
Steven

[f350ps]

Hmm yes some natives do have jobs..there are exceptions..actually plenty of them...however the demands have gotten way out of hand..
And if you are paying my pension? Can I have a raise? Please.....thank you....
Cheers
Steven
Hmmm, only way yer getting a raise is if ya block a highway and state yer demands, let us know how it works out for ya please! K