How is it possible?

[atvone]

I know this has been talked about at length but what is the answer. My hunting group hasn't drawn in four or five years and again failed to draw this year in the LEH. BUT and it is a big BUT other people and groups I know draw in the same area year after year. WHAT'S UP. There is no way it should happen having people draw multiple years in a row in an area and others who haven't drawn. I know it has been beaten to death but I had to say it again! Just passed off again.

[two-feet]

Put in for a different area with better odds, stop bitching.

[Rhyno]

Look up the definition of lottery and you shall find your answer.

[Pioneerman]

I have not won the lotto max either or the 649, or leh. Am I happy ? No, but what can you do, you try and win or lose. I have not even been drawn for animals in a 2 to 1 odds, or anything for 8 years, Crap happens

[Ozone]

Because the other 20 threads on this weren't enough? Maybe you could read the LEH papers and see how they work before complaining.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Nice Guys you are :cry: atvone fellow was just saying ! :) RJ

[BCbillies]

As I tell my kids . . . "life isn't fair so get used to it"!

I haven't gotten a grizz and goat LEH for a couple of years . . . was banking on the Kamloops Lake sheep draw this year . . . not even a mulie flattop draw. I guess we have to take our lumps and hunt GOS again.

[pieter]

I have put in leh's since they came out which is about thirty five years ago and have never got any thing ever'and I put in where odds were good and some hard to get ones but have always come up empty.P S I have won the lotto twice for some good bucks

[Rob Chipman]

Wierd lottery shit. I was skunked again this year while my buddy got three draws. Seems that for me I get a draw then I get lockkd out for 5 years while other guys get lucky time and again. Anyway, I've got two moose hunts in October with two buddies who got bull draws - one in 6 and another in 3.


I think its time for you to get new hunting partners :-)

[killman]

It's rigged. Why do you think it takes so long? Why do you think they won't ltr the computers do it? All hand picked!

[noahs ark]

It's rigged. Why do you think it takes so long? Why do you think they won't ltr the computers do it? All hand picked!

I don't understand your concept? Hand picked? So they screw over stranger A so stranger B can get the tag?
Because that will show stranger A! I didn't like his last name anyways. I hate names that start with K or end with "er" so let's screw them. Ya that'll show them.
I doubt our incompetent government is capable of screwing over certain individuals on purpose.

[killman]

I don't understand your concept? Hand picked? So they screw over stranger A so stranger B can get the tag?
Because that will show stranger A! I didn't like his last name anyways. I hate names that start with K or end with "er" so let's screw them. Ya that'll show them.
I doubt our incompetent government is capable of screwing over certain individuals on purpose.

Addresses....no locals get draws. Keeps the economy rollin ;)

[atvone]

Like I was saying how is it possible. If you read how the LEH is supposed to be drawn it is almost impossible for people to draw in the same areas year after year when people who haven't drawn in three do not draw. That was all I was saying. I am pissed but still going hunting for what I can.

[wrenchhead]

I put in for the kamloops lake draw every year and never get it either, such bull I think the government owes it to me.

[Gateholio]

Like I was saying how is it possible. If you read how the LEH is supposed to be drawn it is almost impossible for people to draw in the same areas year after year when people who haven't drawn in three do not draw. That was all I was saying. I am pissed but still going hunting for what I can.

No, that's not how it works. Every year is a completely new set of chances.

[BCbillies]

I don't understand your concept? Hand picked? So they screw over stranger A so stranger B can get the tag?
Because that will show stranger A! I didn't like his last name anyways. I hate names that start with K or end with "er" so let's screw them. Ya that'll show them.

I'm screwed . . . two of my kids first and last names start with K. We opted to not have their middle initial start with K! I already get enough funny looks for some of the things I've done. ;)

[Hunting guy]

changing to a system like the one Alberta uses would be better.

[Ride Red]

The LEH is a bullshit system and everyone knows it. There have been draws won by the same people for a few years in a row. Eg: Moose draws won 2 plus years in a row, but the odds are supposed to be reduced after the first time. Our system needs a complete overhaul, but hunting/fishing in this province have been put further onto the back burner every year. Not until we unite will there be any changes to the sport we love dearly, just look at some of the posts on this site. All we do is agree to disagree, thats why we never get anywhere close to resolving these issues. Coming together as one is the first step.

[BiG Boar]

I'm guessing you don't know how the system works. Did you put in as a group?

[Wild one]

All you can do is play the odds other than that it is random

I know those with a horse shoe and pull draws every year and get draws they should not every year.

I know those who are cursed and can't pull a draw even if the odds are really good. 1 is 20 years of no draw and he applies for a mix of different odds draws some as low as 1:1.

I don't believe reduced odds really are used in the LEH draw from what I see and it just seems completely random

[Wentrot]

Here is an email from BCWF I received back for anyone interested.


In reference to your note concerning the LEH draw, sorry for the delayed response but I am currently out of country. As you know the draw has been processed by now, albeit later than usual and concerning to all of us.


‎You can be assured your concern, among thousands of other BCWF members' concerns; regarding the draw delay and lack of priority given by the government has and is being discussed internally. I can personally assure you that Minister Thomson will be hearing from me about this and other issues related to the lack of resident hunting priority in this province in an upcoming meeting.


Thank you for taking the time to voice your concern, the BCWF is a "grass roots" organization run by its numerous volunteers, as we are all in this together I encourage you to write Minister Thomson and your MLA on issues such as this and others regarding our province's fish and wildlife.


Cheers,

[Andrewh]

I love the system, just need to understand how it works. Our group of 4 has drawn 13 tags in the last 2 years including Rosie elk/goats (all but 2 were/are within 4hrs of Vancouver). Mind you I put them in for everything, just a few secrets you most likely don't know of if you can't pull a draw over that many years. Bigboar and a few others also seem to always get 'lucky' or could it be something else...;)

[Ride Red]

I'm guessing you don't know how the system works. Did you put in as a group?

Who are you asking?

[Amphibious]

We need a separate " I'm butt-hurt over the LEH because I don't understand math and want to rant" subforum.

that way we can keep these threads from clogging up the works.

[Wentrot]

We need a separate " I'm butt-hurt over the LEH because I don't understand math and want to rant" subforum.

that way we can keep these threads from clogging up the works.

You know what else I found works? Not opening the thread! Mind blowing.

[Amphibious]

You know what else I found works? Not opening the thread! Mind blowing.

preparation H will help you with your problem.

[markomoose]

If so many people are not happy with the current system start a petition?

[Andrewh]

If so many people are not happy with the current system start a petition?

But those same people won't understand the numbers behind the petition either...

[steel_ram]

It's a random draw based mainly on luck. Some people are luckier than others. Life isn't fair. That's the way it is.

hint: The do not mark in this box is where the people processing the orders mark if you included a twenty with your card.

[Fisher-Dude]

But those same people won't understand the numbers behind the petition either...

They don't have to. Look at how 54% of BCers were utterly ignorant about the HST and yet they succeeded in bringing the job-killing PST back. Those same 54% are now snivelling about PST on their used quads.

You just need a charismatic tulip farmer to lie to the masses with huge BS promises and you can get anything changed in this province (pending approval by the Indians, of course). If Vanderscalm promised you all a Kamloops sheep draw you'd follow him over a cliff.

[Surrey Boy]

^ LOL!!!

Some guys just can't let things go.

Why don't you start a petition to bring back the HST? Like that alternative voting scheme they keep trying to push.

[BiG Boar]

To the original poster.


I'm guessing you don't know how the system works. Did you put in as a group?

[atvone]

Over the years we have put in as both groups and as individuals. This year we put in for groups for some draws and individuals for others.

[olympia]

God is very very mad at you...that is the reason you don't get a LEH draw, he knows about that time you inhaled

[jamfarm]

Here how you get your moose draw, guaranteed.

Next year put your 4 person group in for hunt code 4340

2014/15 odds were 0.2:1

If you still don't get drawn then you know the system is rigged. If you get drawn, you can thank me.

[riflebuilder]

now watch everyone put in for draw 4340 and the odds will become 20:1 and he still won't get a draw....lol

[limit time]

I know this has been talked about at length but what is the answer. My hunting group hasn't drawn in four or five years and again failed to draw this year in the LEH. BUT and it is a big BUT other people and groups I know draw in the same area year after year. WHAT'S UP. There is no way it should happen having people draw multiple years in a row in an area and others who haven't drawn. I know it has been beaten to death but I had to say it again! Just passed off again.
What I would like to know, are they really giving out all the draws? Or do they pad with extras just to get the money??

[Chopper]

Ya ... not fair ... stop bitching ?! ... Im so fkn bitter about the LEH I cant say it with out spitting ! ... My Dad and I have a combined drought of 70 FKN years ! ... My buddy just got back to back Frazer river sheep draws


B.C LEH is a JOKE !

[Liveforthehunt]

Hell I toss a crisp $100 in my envelope and magically get drawn every year... Grizz... Moose ;) not to mention the odds are around 45:1 for both

[Surrey Boy]

Ya ... not fair ... stop bitching ?! ... Im so fkn bitter about the LEH I cant say it with out spitting ! ... My Dad and I have a combined drought of 70 FKN years ! ... My buddy just got back to back Frazer river sheep draws


B.C LEH is a JOKE !

Don't you usually take offence at cynicism towards our Crown ministries and agencies?

[ROY-alty33]

There are flaws and ones I can prove and have mentioned on here before. But it is a lottery you pay your money and take your chances. It is better than some provinces and worse than others. They all have pros and cons. My fathers/uncles/cousins in Ontario need 8 people I think to be guarenteed a Bull moose draw. That doesn't compute well with me I'll pay my 6 bucks and take my chances on 2 bulls with 2 or 3 buddies. Plus compared to other provinces we have very generous GOS, wich makes the bitter taste of the nil pill a bit easier to swallow. I am not a fan of the LEH system of today, I feel it could be improved upon, but type to slow to print all the changes we need in here.

My group 5 years nil moose elk draws...just does and 1 grizz draw in that time.

[IslandmanDan]

now watch everyone put in for draw 4340 and the odds will become 20:1 and he still won't get a draw....lol

Haha, Thats funny. I tried getting it in real early. Nope. GOS again...mmmmm. Cant wait. Early season bow, 6pt bull, spikefork moose, anterless whitetail, mule buck, whitetail buck, mature bull moose, mature and full curl ram, cow/calf moose, Mt goat, unfortunately no Bison or grizz. But I think I am gonna put SOMETHING in the freezer this season. Good luck everyone!

[noahs ark]

I've drawn for something every year in my short hunting career.
Even if it was just a mulie doe.
Not once have I ever put my LEH cards in an envelope. You guys complain about how long it takes it's because of all the dam envelopes they have to open!

[OutWest]

changing to a system like the one Alberta uses would be better.

No, it wouldn't. Our system is much better. Put in for the right areas and you will be picked year after year here.

[BiG Boar]

Over the years we have put in as both groups and as individuals. This year we put in for groups for some draws and individuals for others.

See just by this response I can see you have no idea how the LEH works. Your buddy's group of friends are getting drawn for moose all the time becUse they know how the system works. You should try to figure out what his secret is and how he's getting an advantage.

[Hunting guy]

No, it wouldn't. Our system is much better. Put in for the right areas and you will be picked year after year here.


You could be picked year after year if you put in for an easy draw area, a priority system shouldn't affect your 1:1 odds areas up north. And why are zones that are historic low odds say 1:1 or less even included as LEH?

[moosinaround]

I get my draw every year, I send 100$ in with my envelope! Gotta grease the palms!! Moosin;)

[noahs ark]

I get my draw every year, I send 100$ in with my envelope! Gotta grease the palms!! Moosin;)

LOL! The clerk that opens all the envelopes for the people that do the draw thanks you!

[hunter1947]

Get the four of you to put in this area for two for two group draws LEH hunt might get lucky on one draw ..

[NMO]

As I tell my kids . . . "life isn't fair so get used to it"!

I haven't gotten a grizz and goat LEH for a couple of years . . . was banking on the Kamloops Lake sheep draw this year . . . not even a mulie flattop draw. I guess we have to take our lumps and hunt GOS again.

I recall my father telling me the same thing one day as a youngster in tears, and it has stuck with me. Life isn't fair, don't focus on what you cannot change, because you cannot change it. And don't bitch about what you can change, go out and change it.
As someone who moved to BC from ON in the last year, it seems to me that there are way more opportunities for way more species here. In ON most good areas of moose you need a group of 10-15 putting in to draw 1 bull tag for a party hunt. Obviously there are financial restrictions, but I don't get why so many people bitch about not drawing year after year, when there are GOS in other areas of the province for the same animals.

[Surrey Boy]

^ Hunters are 99% decent, virtous folk, it's the 1% that make us all look like whiners.

Right?

[IslandmanDan]

I get my draw every year, I send 100$ in with my envelope! Gotta grease the palms!! Moosin


LOL! The clerk that opens all the envelopes for the people that do the draw thanks you!

Moosin, are you the LEH clerk? Haha

[Fisher-Dude]

If you didn't use black ink, your cards got thrown in the garbage, right H47? ;)

[riflebuilder]

Always use black ink written out at midnight under the full moon on the back deck after the burnt offering (last years non draws). This is why we are blessed this year by the LEH Gods.

[timbermilton]

my wife and i dont even bother with the LEH. why send in money to lose it? we just hunt the GOS and fill the freezer. -i think most the guys pissed that they NEVER get drawn, is they want them TROPHY heads on the wall.

[Liveforthehunt]

Nothing wrong with the LEH system I have got many draws over the years and so has my old man for those who say you have had no luck keep trying and just be positive it's bound to happen.

[ru rancher]

if you are ever un happy with the LEH and want it changed then stopp buying the cards if the goverment doesnt get there money then they will make a change obviously. since this year they where saying 9000 more cards why the hell would they change the system when its on the rise??

[REMINGTON JIM]

if you are ever un happy with the LEH and want it changed then stopp buying the cards if the goverment doesnt get there money then they will make a change obviously. since this year they where saying 9000 more cards why the hell would they change the system when its on the rise??

That is a Very Good point you have brought up there Kid ! :wink: RJ

[Salty]

You just need to know the system. I get drawn every year using a systematic approach factoring 7 different variables compared to moon phases and previous years data. I've just finished writing a book about this, there's too many good people getting screwed cause they don't know the proper way to apply. pm me to arrange an EMT my way for $78.45 plus HST and I'll send you my book. I'll even autograph it. Take lots of holidays next year you're gonna be busy come hunting season!

[quadrakid]

Listen to Salty,he knows the system. For a small cash outlay last year I was able to secure the Kamloops Lake Sheep LEH as well as my first island elk. I say my first because I just received my second island elk!!Money to Salty,LEH in the bank!

[Salty]

Thanks QK, always great to hear of the successes from happy customers!

[wsm]

if it makes you feel better ,I have not drawn anything in 10 yrs now . I put in for mulie, moose , elk ,goat, sheep every year and every once in a while I put in for grizz. I now someone that drew moose 4 years in a row with 20:1 odds . im not to bothered by not getting anything , but very annoyed by how late they decided to tell us that we got NIL

[frenchbar]

You just need to know the system. I get drawn every year using a systematic approach factoring 7 different variables compared to moon phases and previous years data. I've just finished writing a book about this, there's too many good people getting screwed cause they don't know the proper way to apply. pm me to arrange an EMT my way for $78.45 plus HST and I'll send you my book. I'll even autograph it. Take lots of holidays next year you're gonna be busy come hunting season!
might make good fire starter ..

[1/2 slam]

might make good fire starter ..

Or arse wipe if you run out

[M.Dean]

In a lot of different Country's around this world the only way to get any type of results with any Government paper work is to add a couple of crisp 50 dollar bills along with your application! I'd never, ever even dream of this happening in this great province of ours, but what the hell, couldn't hurt, Eh!!!

[Surrey Boy]

A hunting partner of mine got Grizzly, Bison, and Mountain Goat this year, after getting a Grizz and Moose draw last year, and I'm skunked again.

So when he called, did I complain? No, I congratulated him and offered to help.

[I'd Rather Be Hunting]

I had a drought for years, then struck with successful draws 3 years straight, and I'm on a several year drought again. My friend has put in for about 15 years with no luck, and him and his wife both got moose draws this year. It's completely random, and yes, some people seem to be luckier than others, but in the end, we all have the same odds. To me, it adds another layer of "hunting" to the hunt!

[Moose Guide]

Over the years we have put in as both groups and as individuals. This year we put in for groups for some draws and individuals for others.

If you put in as an individual, you have one card=1 chance
If you put in as a 4 person GROUP hunt, ONLY ONE CARD IS ENTERED=1 chance for 4 moose, and if only 3 tags remain you get none!!!!!!
If you put in a 4 person SHARED hunt, all 4 cards are entered=4 chances on 2 moose, and if only one tag remains you get that one tag!!!!!!!
It isn't rocket science but a little research goes a long way, I was drawn 6 years in a row and now I have missed 2 years in a row!!!!!

[cooter303]

i got a muley draw in 2002. i applied every year after and no results. finally last year in 2013 i got a muley draw. i applied this year and got a muley draw. the systems not rigged. its just luck of the draw.

[Surrey Boy]

Awesome avatar, IRBH


I had a drought for years, then struck with successful draws 3 years straight, and I'm on a several year drought again. My friend has put in for about 15 years with no luck, and him and his wife both got moose draws this year. It's completely random, and yes, some people seem to be luckier than others, but in the end, we all have the same odds. To me, it adds another layer of "hunting" to the hunt!

And if your friend had a 15 year drought, good on him for still buying tickets!

[two-feet]

I was unsuccessful for several years in a row so i switched up my routine: instead of putting in for the area i want to hunt, i put in for an area that i can have good odds on being drawn. As a result i dont get to hunt around home like i would like but dems da breaks. And it turns hunting into a more adventurous vacation when a guy has to head deeper into the boonies.

[Bob B]

Have any of you good folks ( a questionable term at best) actually run your statistics on getting a draw???? Get the formula for how many times you have applied and your odds, and your results,

It is not the 6/49 like some state. Odds are way different.

Do the fricken math, yes the LEH may be suspect but the the stats are what they are. Can you find or use the stat formula ??? Do it and come back. Those that are just grouchy need not apply.

Yes the LEH is bogas. Run 40 applications ( 25 years worth)
through at 1: 2 or 1: 3 odds and see what you get. Even the worst stat person will not get '0'. My run of these numbers show that I should have received at least 4 LEH. To date '0'. No I am not whining, I don't really care as I do fine without.
Just providing my thoughts for others to consider. And a pox on those that take offence on my trying to
bring reason into this discussion .

Do you have enhanced odds? Maybe.





yes. you should have a chance. People do the math and then come back and say how screwed up the LEH is!!!I

[44inchStone]

Well sometimes I wonder.
A friend of mine just drew Gold River ELk again. Twice in three years!
Either he is the luckiest SUM BEOTCH or he knows something I don't. Either way I wish him the best of luck. Lucky bugger!! His first bull was a monster 6x6

[1/2 slam]

Well sometimes I wonder.
A friend of mine just drew Gold River ELk again. Twice in three years!
Either he is the luckiest SUM BEOTCH or he knows something I don't. Either way I wish him the best of luck. Lucky bugger!! His first bull was a monster 6x6

Thirty plus years of applying for Gold River. I know guys who put in for the first time and drew. I know of several who have drawn more than once. Time for an overhaul.

[Jelvis]

Only the Lucky git Lucky -- Loverboy