L.E.H Draw Statistics

[Trapper]

2014 Draw Statistics

The Fish, Wildlife, and Habitat Management Branch issued 25,371 authorizations to 22,204 hunters (the total number of authorizations issued is higher than the total number of hunters because it is possible for one hunter to receive more than one authorization).
There were a total of 21,592 authorizations available (the total number of authorizations available is lower than the total number of issued authorizations due to shared moose and bison hunts that have more winning hunters than authorized animals).
26,288 authorizations were issued as "first choice"; 536 as "second choice" and 280 as "Grizzly Bear Substitute".
Shared hunts for moose allowed 3,945 additional hunters to participate in LEH hunts for moose.
Shared hunts for bison allowed 190 additional hunters to participate in LEH hunts for bison.
1 hunter was drawn for 5 species, 31 were drawn for 4 species, 257 were drawn for 3 species, 2556 were drawn for 2 species and 19359 were drawn for 1 species.
82,912 hunters submitted 182,052 applications, 180,116 of which made it into the draw.
34 hunters applied for all 8 species.
56,213 people applied for 1 or 2 species.
246 authorizations, (56/2770 Goat, 8/1617 Grizzly Bear, 96/4460 Mule Deer and 86/8578, Moose) were not awarded due to being undersubscribed (the total number of authorizations available exceeded the total number of applicants for that hunt).

[d6dan]

Trapper, now you know why you didn't get a draw. :-D
1936 draws were tossed for whatever reason and lots of people will never know if it was their card or cards. They should at least e-mail your draw results with the percentages. At least it would eliminate some doubt.

[Iltasyuko]

Curious on the increase in applications from last year to this year.

[hunter fisher]

I applied for a grizzly draw and checked the substitute box. These stats say there were left over grizz draws. Does that mean my draws never made it to Victoria? I filled them out meticulously, so I can't imagine they were tossed.
...wtf?

[dana]

The substitute grizz are for units in close proximity to the unit you apply for. If they were undersubscribed, you could get one. If you didn't get one, then all units in proximity to the unit you applied for would have had more aplicants than tags.

[notellyridge]

The system in bc for leh is old and out dated. They should run it like alberta does which is on a priority system.

[Rhyno]

The system in bc for leh is old and out dated. They should run it like alberta does which is on a priority system.

Here we go again. There are multiple threads on this topic with explanations why it wouldn't work here. How many points for a Kamloops ram?

[Crazy_Farmer]

There's many different systems and ways to make it work. It can be done and should be done. Our system is useless.

[LYKTOHUNT]

It was mentioned that in region 5-04 and 5-05 for goat, mule deer doe, and moose that you may not get draw results because of native intervention until later. Does that mean we still have a chance even though it said we were not successful for our hunt codes in that region?

[Doublelung]

They still have animals that are on random draws. They also have animals on points.

[Ride Red]

No matter how the draw in done, they should modernize it and link it to there web page. Only the government would stay behind the times.

[spear]

They still have animals that are on random draws. They also have animals on points.

Please elaborate

[Rackmastr]

I am one of 257.....lol

[d6dan]

I am one of 257.....lol
And your still a new Immigrant to BC. Go figure :wink:

[Rackmastr]

And your still a new Immigrant to BC. Go figure :wink:

Yep I checked that box on my LEH application forms. Not sure why anyone else wouldnt do that as well since its there.....

[Blainer]

2014 Draw Statistics



1 hunter was drawn for 5 species, 31 were drawn for 4 species, 257 were drawn for 3 species, 2556 were drawn for 2 species and 19359 were drawn for 1 species.
82,912 hunters submitted 182,052 applications, 180,116 of which made it into the draw.
34 hunters applied for all 8 species.
56,213 people applied for 1 or 2 species.
246 authorizations, (56/2770 Goat, 8/1617 Grizzly Bear, 96/4460 Mule Deer and 86/8578, Moose) were not awarded due to being undersubscribed (the total number of authorizations available exceeded the total number of applicants for that hunt).

My partner and I were both amongst the 31.
2 of the 4 were a given, with the other 2 at favorable odds

[1899]

Here we go again. There are multiple threads on this topic with explanations why it wouldn't work here. How many points for a Kamloops ram?

Some of their draws are pure lottery too - so you could keep the status quo for Kamloops sheep and the like. It's quite simple really. There just is no will to change the system.

[blackbart]

If memory stands correct last year I bought the following tags: Black bear, elk, moose, sheep, mule deer (2), whitetail deer, cougar and goat. Funny thing is I didn't need an LEH for any of them... Hmmm, BC sure is a crappy place to live for hunters.

[browningboy]

Beyond me I've been putting in for over 17 years on bison, nadda, and I hear so many on on their 3rd? Wtf?
yes it is sour grapes

[dhog]

I heard your odds go up if you join the Liberal party

[steveo]

The reason why B.C. won't run a points system is because high odds hunts like sheep and V.I. elk that are 100:1 odds or more would literally take you a hundred years to get if you got a point a year and built on that. The ministry keeps using these two species as an example over and over but there are lots of hunts that are 15:1 or less and all these hunts could go on a points system. A point system may take the ministry to keep some records of hunters points that are being gathered and that just won't do. They had approximately 6000 more applications than last year and how much longer did that take? We have to start more sqawking if we want to see a points system.

[reach]

The reason why B.C. won't run a points system is because high odds hunts like sheep and V.I. elk that are 100:1 odds or more would literally take you a hundred years to get if you got a point a year and built on that. The ministry keeps using these two species as an example over and over but there are lots of hunts that are 15:1 or less and all these hunts could go on a points system. A point system may take the ministry to keep some records of hunters points that are being gathered and that just won't do. They had approximately 6000 more applications than last year and how much longer did that take? We have to start more sqawking if we want to see a points system.
I, for one, don't want to see a points system. For your 15:1 hunt with a points system I would know it was impossible to get "drawn" until 2029 if I start applying now, and I couldn't apply anywhere else in the meantime.

[SingleShot]

It's absurd that any individual receives 5, 4 or even 3 authorizations. I doubt very much that anyone can put a reasonable and justifiable effort into accomplishing 5,4 or possibly 3 LEH hunts. Unless you are wealthy, don't hold a full time job and have little or no family responsibilities how the hell would you chase down 5 LEHS? The odds of them all being in your "back yard" are slim to nil.

This should be changed. Two draw limit. That combined with our GOS is more than enough for any hunter. According to their "stats" that would open up a lot of tags for all the people that get SFA. Hearing about these guys that enter year after year with nothing to show and how others are getting 3,4 and 5 tags in a single year is enough to make you sick.

Tell me that this system isn't corrupt or at the very least messed up.

For what it's worth, I got two draws and will be giving each one a concerted effort

[reach]

This should be changed. Two draw limit. That combined with our GOS is more than enough for any hunter. According to their "stats" that would open up a lot of tags for all the people that get SFA.
According to this year's numbers, by my count it would free up 322 authorizations, or about 1.2 percent. Yep that'll make a huge difference. :tongue:

[SingleShot]

If you have 0, 322 is a pretty good number to look at.

I'd rather see my neighbour's each have 1 draw than one have 3 and the other two have none.

This is a valuable and highly prized resource that warrants more than some luck of the draw "I get 5 and you get 0 because the computer says so system". Please explain how this is responsible management of the resource.

Lets just suppose a good percentage of those with 3,4 and 5 tags are unable to put a decent effort or any effort for that matter into all those hunts. I would say that's a reasonable supposition. How is that good management?


Personally, I can't believe the bleeping ministry has the audacity to announce " We gave one person 5 tags and a whole lot of you got nothing". What a bunch of morons.

[SingleShot]

Just to add: These tags are getting harder and harder to get making them more valuable and sought after. Supply and demand. Each and every one deserves to be honoured with a hunt.

Imagine this scenario:

Long hot summer... wells, creeks, lakes are all drying up. Ministry arrives with a water truck and distributes the water the same way as the Leh's. When the truck is empty many people walk away with empty containers, dry and thirsty. They get half a mile down the road only to find those that "won" 5 gallons of water are pouring it on the side of the road because it's more than they can carry. They can't transfer the water to someone else unless it happens to be one of the extremely rare "Bison" brands which of course no one will give up. Yah... real good management.

How difficult would it be to cap them at two and who here would complain if they did?

Rant over

[LYKTOHUNT]

It was mentioned that in region 5-04 and 5-05 for goat, mule deer doe, and moose that you may not get draw results because of native intervention until later. Does that mean we still have a chance even though it said we were not successful for our hunt codes in that region?
Does any one know an an answer to my question, I know some people have been drawn in these areas but I am still unclear as to what it means when the ministry says they will send written notice regarding your applications at a later date

[Blainer]

It's absurd that any individual receives 5, 4 or even 3 authorizations. I doubt very much that anyone can put a reasonable and justifiable effort into accomplishing 5,4 or possibly 3 LEH hunts. Unless you are wealthy, don't hold a full time job and have little or no family responsibilities how the hell would you chase down 5 LEHS? The odds of them all being in your "back yard" are slim to nil.

This should be changed. Two draw limit. That combined with our GOS is more than enough for any hunter. According to their "stats" that would open up a lot of tags for all the people that get SFA. Hearing about these guys that enter year after year with nothing to show and how others are getting 3,4 and 5 tags in a single year is enough to make you sick.

Tell me that this system isn't corrupt or at the very least messed up.

For what it's worth, I got two draws and will be giving each one a concerted effortBoth my partner and I drew 4 tags each.
What your not considering is that they are all in the same area for the same time frame.
This is also in a fly in area with huge expense incurred and thus making the odds reasonable.
Actually 2 of the tags were a given, 1:1, so the species and region are under subscribed.
The other 2 tags were at extremely favorable odds.
If one was to incur the expense & time for a fly in hunt, do you not think it makes sense to apply for all species available in area?
The people getting 3 or 4 draws are generally NOT getting the VI elk draw, bison or Kamloops ram, they are applying for under subscribed hunts and in areas that others don't want.
Just another perspective on your rant.

[two-feet]

I have no problem with the system as it is, people wonder why this or that happens, because it is a RANDOM draw. Some people getting many 3 years in a row and some people getting nothing is consistent with a random system. Hunters should not put all their eggs into the leh basket, plan on hunting gos and see getting a draw as bonus. And if you are putting in on a 1:15 odds draw, do you really expect to get drawn? I put in on a group moose hunt with 1:2.3 odds and still feel fortunate to get drawn, was making plans for the gos anyways.

[Fisher-Dude]

If you have 0, 322 is a pretty good number to look at.




322/(182,000 - 25,000) = .00205

Is a 0.205% chance much better than nothing? Probably not.

[MadCat]

Single shot quit your complaining. If you wanted to, you could draw 4 tags pretty easy. Just put in where the odds are 1 to 1, or close to it. But my guess is you want those tags close to home that everyone else wants then complain you never get drawn even thoe the odds are 10 plus to one 1 odds.

[boxhitch]

We have to start more sqawking if we want to see a points system.


There just is no will to change the system.

That is true . Hunters have had opportunity to speak up , and Most are happy with the system as is .
I don't believe in lotteries that award $50 mil to one winner instead of $1 mil to fifty winners , so I don't play those , but I don't try to change them either

[BigfishCanada]

OK who was the lucky #$% who won 5 species, and the 31 $%^ that were drawn for 4 species, I wouldnt forget the 257 %^*$* ^&% that were drawn for 3 species

Yes im jealous, so what! :)

[Lukeez88]

There needs to be some kind of change to that leh system. I don't know what the solution is, but something needs to be done. Just that fact that we have to wait till freaking July to see results is just ridiculous! There's absolutely no reason why the draw can't happen a couple months earlier!!! I believe we need to share the wealth, but to a certain extent. Ie I don't think the winner of a kamloops lake sheep draw should get a bison draw and a VI elk draw as we'll. but at the same time I don't really care if one guy gets a handful of draws at 1:1 odds. He can have em all!!!
even with a need for change, I don't see anything happening anytime in that near future. A bit sad. But at the same time I am thankful to live in a province where I can hunt black bear, deer, moose, elk, sheep, and goat in GOS. Baggers can't be choosers, you just have to take what you can get. We will never ever live in a perfect world.

[BiG Boar]

Imagine this scenario:

Long hot summer... wells, creeks, lakes are all drying up. Ministry arrives with a water truck and distributes the water the same way as the Leh's. When the truck is empty many people walk away with empty containers, dry and thirsty. They get half a mile down the road only to find those that "won" 5 gallons of water are pouring it on the side of the road because it's more than they can carry. They can't transfer the water to someone else unless it happens to be one of the extremely rare "Bison" brands which of course no one will give up. Yah... real good management.

How difficult would it be to cap them at two and who here would complain if they did?

Imagine this, instead of the truck "delivering" the water like a tag in your back yard, you have to fly in to a lake at a cost of $1700 to get water. Do you want that water bad enough? Pay up. The guys who are getting these multiple draws are not guys getting kamloops lake rams and Rosie's and Bella coola grizzlies and easy road access goats. They are guys who are willing to travel and hunt all over and pay huge dollars to do so. I know the guy who got the 5 tags and this is how it's broken down. I actually believe he has 6 for this fall.

He is flying into a remote place that has 4 animals on draw that are under or close to 1:1 (this includes early sheep). Anyone could get these draws if they wanted, even you, but you're probably not willing to drive that far or fly into where the tag is open. The water truck won't take you there for free. The other one was a doe at the cabin (again good odds). And the other one is bison with me. Which is the 17th year he's applied. So it was due.

obviously if you were to fly into this remote region you would want to have multiple species tags, the same if you flew into an area that had 5 open GOS species. You wouldn't think the ministry should only allow you to buy 1 GOS
tag per year, would you?

So capping draws at 2 is stupid, because we would see a lot more tags never get taken by the ministry. There are still many many draws that are unwanted.

Will he he hunt all 6 tags? Yes. 4 on the fly in, 1 doe at his cabin on the weekends, and one buffalo he's been dreaming about for years.

Will he use the meat? Yes. Will he shoot all 6 animals? Definitely not. 4 animals on a 2 week trip is hard work. Do you want to apply for four 1:1 tags next year? Go for it.

If he didn't apply for them, there would be at least 2 more unwanted tags in the ministries hands. Hopefully this changes your perspective.

[Rackmastr]

Good post Big Boar

[SingleShot]

Both my partner and I drew 4 tags each.
What your not considering is that they are all in the same area for the same time frame.
This is also in a fly in area with huge expense incurred and thus making the odds reasonable.
Actually 2 of the tags were a given, 1:1, so the species and region are under subscribed.
The other 2 tags were at extremely favorable odds.
If one was to incur the expense & time for a fly in hunt, do you not think it makes sense to apply for all species available in area?
The people getting 3 or 4 draws are generally NOT getting the VI elk draw, bison or Kamloops ram, they are applying for under subscribed hunts and in areas that others don't want.
Just another perspective on your rant.

Blainer, you are correct, I did not have the fly in areas in mind. Combine that with undersubscribed hunts and you make a good point.

As far as expenses incurred... yes, that would be pricy although it's pretty much all pricy nowadays. Different hunts incur different costs. Hauling trucks, trailers, quads and vehicular insurance to the North adds up pretty quick.

Yes, if you are flying in it would make sense to apply for what's available in one time frame. On the same note, you can only fly out with so much so there would be decisions to make in the field.

Good luck on your trip!

[bigredchev]

:mrgreen:Let's shift focus a bit and think of all the people who draw a tag and simply don't follow up on it, let it go to waste. That's what gets my blood boiling.


I have no problem with a guy getting 6 tags at odds that are fair to all applicants, its a perfectly fair process. Can't bitch about fairness.



At this rate of my leh success, next year I am applying for a group doe hunt so so I have a sliver of a chance.

[SingleShot]

That is true . Hunters have had opportunity to speak up , and Most are happy with the system as is .
I don't believe in lotteries that award $50 mil to one winner instead of $1 mil to fifty winners , so I don't play those , but I don't try to change them either

Well said. I'd like to add that the lottery's offer choices as to what type of game you want to play and how they pay out.

[SingleShot]

There needs to be some kind of change to that leh system. I don't know what the solution is, but something needs to be done. Just that fact that we have to wait till freaking July to see results is just ridiculous! There's absolutely no reason why the draw can't happen a couple months earlier!!! I believe we need to share the wealth, but to a certain extent. Ie I don't think the winner of a kamloops lake sheep draw should get a bison draw and a VI elk draw as we'll. but at the same time I don't really care if one guy gets a handful of draws at 1:1 odds. He can have em all!!!
even with a need for change, I don't see anything happening anytime in that near future. A bit sad. But at the same time I am thankful to live in a province where I can hunt black bear, deer, moose, elk, sheep, and goat in GOS. Baggers can't be choosers, you just have to take what you can get. We will never ever live in a perfect world.

Hard to argue with that.

[SingleShot]

Imagine this, instead of the truck "delivering" the water like a tag in your back yard, you have to fly in to a lake at a cost of $1700 to get water. Do you want that water bad enough? Pay up. The guys who are getting these multiple draws are not guys getting kamloops lake rams and Rosie's and Bella coola grizzlies and easy road access goats. They are guys who are willing to travel and hunt all over and pay huge dollars to do so. I know the guy who got the 5 tags and this is how it's broken down. I actually believe he has 6 for this fall.

He is flying into a remote place that has 4 animals on draw that are under or close to 1:1 (this includes early sheep). Anyone could get these draws if they wanted, even you, but you're probably not willing to drive that far or fly into where the tag is open. The water truck won't take you there for free. The other one was a doe at the cabin (again good odds). And the other one is bison with me. Which is the 17th year he's applied. So it was due.

obviously if you were to fly into this remote region you would want to have multiple species tags, the same if you flew into an area that had 5 open GOS species. You wouldn't think the ministry should only allow you to buy 1 GOS
tag per year, would you?

So capping draws at 2 is stupid, because we would see a lot more tags never get taken by the ministry. There are still many many draws that are unwanted.

Will he he hunt all 6 tags? Yes. 4 on the fly in, 1 doe at his cabin on the weekends, and one buffalo he's been dreaming about for years.

Will he use the meat? Yes. Will he shoot all 6 animals? Definitely not. 4 animals on a 2 week trip is hard work. Do you want to apply for four 1:1 tags next year? Go for it.

If he didn't apply for them, there would be at least 2 more unwanted tags in the ministries hands. Hopefully this changes your perspective.

Ok, so we appear to have some of the inside story on the individual who got 5, maybe 6 tags. Interesting. It does change my perspective.

I still think we need to see some change in this system.


On a side note, it's annoying when people make assumptions as to what I'm willing to do, how much I'm willing spend or where I'm willing to go and post those assumptions to qualify their perspective. Few of you know how much money I spend, how far or where I go. Not valid to try to guess my circumstances and decide that is what forms my opinion.

[SingleShot]

Single shot quit your complaining. If you wanted to, you could draw 4 tags pretty easy. Just put in where the odds are 1 to 1, or close to it. But my guess is you want those tags close to home that everyone else wants then complain you never get drawn even thoe the odds are 10 plus to one 1 odds.

So who died and made you Queen? :-D Does it say somewhere I can't express my opinions for debate? If it does I haven't seen it.

Your "guessing" about my preferences is far from correct and that's as far as I'll go with you on this topic.

[ohno]

The LEH brought in nearly 1 million dollars to the government, there is little incentive to reduce the number of species/areas that are on LEH. This system is a crude tool to control animal numbers in various areas which could be handled just as well by having closed/restricted areas in GOS which would give more people opportunities. Any hunt that is under subscribed should be taken out of LEH and managed through the regulations in a GOS.

[Shade Tree]

[QUOTE=boxhitch;1517035]That is true . Hunters have had opportunity to speak up , and Most are happy with the system as is .
I don't believe in lotteries that award $50 mil to one winner instead of $1 mil to fifty winners , so I don't play those , but I don't try to change them either[/QU

Most hunters are UNHAPPY with our draw system the way it is that I talk to...It needs to be updated. Comparing this to the 'Power Ball' is apples and oranges....

[Fisher-Dude]

For those arguing for a cap if two draws:

Imagine you are drawn for a doe and a goat in Timbucktu at < 1:1 odds. Then your name comes up for Kamloops sheep, and you don't get it because you have 2 gimmes elsewhere. The Kamloops sheep is instead given to todbartell who already has a roosie draw.

Would that make you happier, single shot?

[Steeleco]

For me it's simple. I spend $6 a week on 6/49 some weeks I win a free play some weeks nothing. LEH is the same, it's a lottery. Simple as that. If your like Bigbore and work the odds in your favor your more likely to win.

For my group at least, we choose our LEH based on where we are going to be on our week(s) off. If we win great, if not, we were going anyhow for GOS.

[bighornbob]

So let me get this straight.
People bitch when the government wants to take an animal off LEH and make General Open season (west kootenay elk).
People bitch when the government brings in doe seasons to control animal numbers.
People bitch when the government brings in any buck seasons.
People bitch when the government goes from any buck to only 4 point or better seasons.
People bitch when the government takes to long to get the LEH draw done
People bitch when the government does not bring in a system like Alberta or the states because they have not gotten a 75:1 Rosie draw in 25 years of applying.
People bitch when the government gives one group its own exclusive season (Bow season) but not others (muzzleloaders)
People bitch when the government lets a handful of kids hunt with guns in the bow season.

Are we really surprised they don't listen to us.

BHB

[directmule]

The LEH brought in nearly 1 million dollars to the government, there is little incentive to reduce the number of species/areas that are on LEH. This system is a crude tool to control animal numbers in various areas which could be handled just as well by having closed/restricted areas in GOS which would give more people opportunities. Any hunt that is under subscribed should be taken out of LEH and managed through the regulations in a GOS.

You say "The LEH brought in nearly 1 million dollars to the government" ??????

The Fish, Wildlife, and Habitat Management Branch issued 25,371 authorizations to 22,204 hunters

Just for fun let's say 1/4 of those 22,204 hunters were senior (over 65ys) and they pay $7.00 for
their licence and the others pay $32.00
Senior - 5551 x $7.00 = $38,857.00
Regular - 16,653 x $32.00 = $ 532,896.00
For licence a total of $571,753.00 + TAX

82,912 hunters submitted 182,052 applications

Well, 182,052 x $6.00 = $1,092, 312 + TAX

246 authorizations, (56/2770 Goat, 8/1617 Grizzly Bear, 96/4460 Mule Deer and 86/8578, Moose)

I don't know how many authorizations there were for the total LEH but let's look at what we know for tags.
Goat 2770 - 56 = 2714 x $40.00 = $108,560.00

Grizzly 1617 - 8 = 1609 x $80.00 = $128,720.00

Mule Deer 4460 - 96 = 4364 x $15.00 = $65,460.00

Moose 8578 - 86 = 8492 x $25.00 = $212,300.00

TOTAL $515,040 + TAX

Grand total (roughly) $2,179,105.00 + TAX

Yea, I know since I retired I have been so busy doing nothing that I don't have time for anything........or maybe too much time.

[Ron.C]

For me it's simple. I spend $6 a week on 6/49 some weeks I win a free play some weeks nothing. LEH is the same, it's a lottery. Simple as that. If your like Bigbore and work the odds in your favor your more likely to win.

For my group at least, we choose our LEH based on where we are going to be on our week(s) off. If we win great, if not, we were going anyhow for GOS.

I agree. We put in for the hail mary draws like Island Elk as does everyone else, but don't anticipate getting drawn. We also put in for more reasonable chance draws but still, 4:1 is no gurantee you will get it and nor do we expect to. Hell, I never got drawn last year for goat when the odds were 1.2:1. Partner laughed his ass off as its seemed like I was the sole loser on that draw. This year, we both drew goat tags, but the zone we hunt is very low odds because access is tough. That's the way it goes, sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.

However, we do always plan around a GOS hunt and have a couple options based on potential LEH outcome's. And we make sure that regardless of the LEH Draw success, we have a plan to hunt all LEH draws we may get.

[Fisher-Dude]

GOS is a huge cash cow for govt compared to LEH. Hunters going hunting is far more lucrative than hunters waiting at home for next year's $6 draw.

[Blainer]

Blainer, you are correct, I did not have the fly in areas in mind. Combine that with undersubscribed hunts and you make a good point.

As far as expenses incurred... yes, that would be pricy although it's pretty much all pricy nowadays. Different hunts incur different costs. Hauling trucks, trailers, quads and vehicular insurance to the North adds up pretty quick.

Yes, if you are flying in it would make sense to apply for what's available in one time frame. On the same note, you can only fly out with so much so there would be decisions to make in the field.

Good luck on your trip!Glad to see you have an open mind and can see things from a different perspective.
I hope I'm in a position that forces me to make that decision in the field.
Incuring the cost of an additional flight is part of that decision.

[SingleShot]

For those arguing for a cap if two draws:

Imagine you are drawn for a doe and a goat in Timbucktu at < 1:1 odds. Then your name comes up for Kamloops sheep, and you don't get it because you have 2 gimmes elsewhere. The Kamloops sheep is instead given to todbartell who already has a roosie draw.

Would that make you happier, single shot?

Anything involving todbartell getting a roosie draw evokes a multitude of emotions... anger...denial...suspicion...jealousy and finally acceptance. :)

Is what you have described not a lottery? Do we not make our choices, pay our fees and hope for the best? Under your scenario, yes, you would loose a tag. Which one? Unpredictable, that's a lottery.

Don't get me wrong, I now grasp the concept that under some circumstances it is inevitable that hunters might play their cards so as to hit the jackpot in this lottery and power to them. I just wasn't seeing how a person could possibly attempt all those tags. Watching all the frustration over the delayed results and then reading all the posters who got nothing while others have a pocketful got me thinking something needs changing. As I said before, I got two draws this year and three last years. This is not about sour grapes for me. Just thought it could be more equitable.

[BiG Boar]

On a side note, it's annoying when people make assumptions as to what I'm willing to do, how much I'm willing spend or where I'm willing to go and post those assumptions to qualify their perspective. Few of you know how much money I spend, how far or where I go. Not valid to try to guess my circumstances and decide that is what forms my opinion.

I'm sorry for assuming to know your personal and financial situation. I was mainly referring to people who complain about not getting drawn for moose, sheep, caribou, goats, or does. There's plenty of open season on these animals, and most people who complain about it are just too cheap to actually put in the effort and cost to do the hunt as these are all on open season.

There could be many improvements to the LEH, but if your hunting season is based on getting drawn for something, you should probably start applying in Alberta. My season is planned in December for usually around 4 different hunts. If I get an LEH, all the better. If not, I drive for a day.

[SingleShot]

Appreciate your reply BB. For what it's worth, I plan exactly as you do and nothing I like better than finishing the loading and hitting the road for a 24 hour drive. That is my holiday and I love every aspect of it. I've been planning and prepping for this season since last year. Leh's just alter it up a wee bit.

I'm off this weekend so will get an email off to you.

[Darksith]

Ok, so we appear to have some of the inside story on the individual who got 5, maybe 6 tags. Interesting. It does change my perspective.

I still think we need to see some change in this system.


On a side note, it's annoying when people make assumptions as to what I'm willing to do, how much I'm willing spend or where I'm willing to go and post those assumptions to qualify their perspective. Few of you know how much money I spend, how far or where I go. Not valid to try to guess my circumstances and decide that is what forms my opinion.

"on a side note"? Really? If you were willing to do them then you would be getting draws because you would be willing to go wherever it took to get a draw.

I love the guys that say NIL ever since the LEH started...if you really cared and needed a draw so you could put meat in your freezer or a trophy animal on your wall and it didn't matter what it cost you would have gotten a draw simply because you would be off to that remote location. We (31 LEH cards) struck out this year, but it wasn't really a big shocker simply because other than 1 or 2 cards submitted, everything was +1:20 odds. I knew exactly what I was putting in for and what my plans for the fall was. If we had gotten a long shot then that might of changed things, but only for the better. Why is it we have to hear every year about how the system is broken, or I keep getting screwed...its so old and tiring. Get a grip people.

[Gateholio]

Only change I see needing is to put the system online and do it earlier. I don't really care about a points system as I've seen the numbers and it won't actually accomplish much to go on a points system, even for the lower odds draws.

[d6dan]

Only change I see needing is to put the system online and do it earlier. I don't really care about a points system as I've seen the numbers and it won't actually accomplish much to go on a points system, even for the lower odds draws.

Yup, It needs to go online so at least you know your application(s) made it.

[dana]

This year I was drawn for 3 tags, bull moose, grizz, and antlerless mule deer. This is the 4th year In a row I've drawn bull moose. 2 of the draws were undersubscribed with the third being almost undersubscribed. I choose these draw units because I am a sucker for a extremely hard hunt. Very good chance to be skunked on all 3. And yet I put in year after year for these kinds of units because I would rather hunt than sit and bitch about not hunting online like many in this thread are doing. All of you who didn't get drawn had every opportunity to put in for the same hunt codes I did, but guess what, you didn't!!!! And now you are upset and think the system is flawed because I drew 3 tags this year, and it is the 4th year I drew a bull moose tag. You could be me sitting with 3 tags in your pocket, but you chose not to. You have no one to blame but yourselves!!! Never a year goes by that I don't get drawn! Why??? Because I put in for Shitty Hunts! I do put in for high odds sheep and goats every year. I've never pulled a high odds hunt ever in my life. But....I get low odds and undersubscibed tags every year. I can tell ya, luck has nothing to do with it.

[6 K]

It's absurd that any individual receives 5, 4 or even 3 authorizations. I doubt very much that anyone can put a reasonable and justifiable effort into accomplishing 5,4 or possibly 3 LEH hunts. Unless you are wealthy, don't hold a full time job and have little or no family responsibilities how the hell would you chase down 5 LEHS? The odds of them all being in your "back yard" are slim to nil.

This should be changed. Two draw limit. That combined with our GOS is more than enough for any hunter. According to their "stats" that would open up a lot of tags for all the people that get SFA. Hearing about these guys that enter year after year with nothing to show and how others are getting 3,4 and 5 tags in a single year is enough to make you sick.

Tell me that this system isn't corrupt or at the very least messed up.

For what it's worth, I got two draws and will be giving each one a concerted effort

This is total B.S.
With all the other crap we hunters have to put up with, you want to add more restrictions ?!?!?!?!
Let me clear on this
" GO PEE UP A ROPE !"

I put in for lots of draws I'm not rich , I have a full time job and I have a family but if and when I am lucky enough to get draws I buy my tags and go after the animals
I pay my money for my applications and take my chances like we all should
Keep your stupid ideas to yourself





Preference points should only apply IF you apply for the same class, same species, in the same location, with same dates PERIOD!
Forget all this other crap (shared youth elderly) One person, One application EACH species DONE!

Don't like it....... MOVE !

[6 K]

This year I was drawn for 3 tags, bull moose, grizz, and antlerless mule deer. This is the 4th year In a row I've drawn bull moose. 2 of the draws were undersubscribed with the third being almost undersubscribed. I choose these draw units because I am a sucker for a extremely hard hunt. Very good chance to be skunked on all 3. And yet I put in year after year for these kinds of units because I would rather hunt than sit and bitch about not hunting online like many in this thread are doing. All of you who didn't get drawn had every opportunity to put in for the same hunt codes I did, but guess what, you didn't!!!! And now you are upset and think the system is flawed because I drew 3 tags this year, and it is the 4th year I drew a bull moose tag. You could be me sitting with 3 tags in your pocket, but you chose not to. You have no one to blame but yourselves!!! Never a year goes by that I don't get drawn! Why??? Because I put in for Shitty Hunts! I do put in for high odds sheep and goats every year. I've never pulled a high odds hunt ever in my life. But....I get low odds and undersubscibed tags every year. I can tell ya, luck has nothing to do with it.

I don't always agree with you Dana but you are right on the money this time

Cheers

[riflebuilder]

I have lived in AB and while there system works for them what we have in BC is actually fairer, I have gotten NIL the odd time most years I get a draw because I put in for a lot of low odd draws. It is fun to get but even without a LEH we have the best resident big game hunting in North America and if you want to put on the miles you can hunt pretty much everything in the Province. Let me see Bull Elk, cow Elk, Buck Mule Deer, Buck and doe Whitetail deer, Buck and doe Sitka Blacktail, Buck and doe Columbian Blacktail deer, Mountain Goat, Stone Sheep then Bighorn if you do not get your Stone, Caribou, Moose , Black bear plus all the predators, birds and the fishing is not to bad either. Complaining when we have the best hunting in the world is crazy and a bit selfish.

[Darksith]

Only change I see needing is to put the system online and do it earlier. I don't really care about a points system as I've seen the numbers and it won't actually accomplish much to go on a points system, even for the lower odds draws.

totally agree, nothing else is broken with the system. It must require an online registration so you can't make a typo once you register all of your info, and this will allow for people to know their entries made it on time, didn't fall of a desk and into a trash bin. Will also allow us to purchase tags and licenses online.

[horshur]

Only change I see needing is to put the system online and do it earlier. I don't really care about a points system as I've seen the numbers and it won't actually accomplish much to go on a points system, even for the lower odds draws.

this is what I would like to see....the applicant would do away with the data entry needed now..it would remove what appears to be a time consuming step.

[Hunterguy]

Good luck to all that were lucky enough for an leh, in some areas this could be your last chance to have an increase of odds to be successful. Due to the First Nations movement love it or hate it some areas will be totally shut down, I'm guessing the Moberly and Del Rio area you will be giving a donation to get your hunting privileges for next season, eg. The Bison hunt. Like the fishing on some high profile rivers are now going to be shut down for the sport fishing industry nothing lasts forever.

[dana]

Just so you know, Most bands in the Peace,like the Moberly, are under Treaties.

[Sitkaspruce]

To all those who whine about this and that of the LEH, you should direct your energy towards getting some of those animals off LEH. LEH is all about restricting hunting opputunities, possibly saving a few animals and pleasing the GO's.

I would be willing to bet that most who are upset about the Lottery called LEH are the same ones who scream for Muley Bucks in Reg 3,4,and 8 to be put on LEH, whitetails does on LEH and Elk on LEH. If that happened, the whining would be even worse!!!!

It is a lottery system, has always been and should always be. We are slowly losing GOS to the GO's, Anti's and now the indians; this is what we should be directing our energy towards, not whether there should be a cap on numbers of successful draws, locals should get first choice for draws or why someone gets a draw 3 years in a row.

Cheers

SS

[Hunterguy]

Dana you have to travel farther than region 3 and experience road blocks with First Nations setting up information road blocks in regards to certain travelled roads for hunting. I'm not disappointed on draws that I may have got or didn't just saying this is what's to come studies or stats on different species will all go out the window.

[Lastcar]

I have no problem with the system as it is, people wonder why this or that happens, because it is a RANDOM draw. Some people getting many 3 years in a row and some people getting nothing is consistent with a random system. Hunters should not put all their eggs into the leh basket, plan on hunting gos and see getting a draw as bonus. And if you are putting in on a 1:15 odds draw, do you really expect to get drawn? I put in on a group moose hunt with 1:2.3 odds and still feel fortunate to get drawn, was making plans for the gos anyways.

^^^Spot on^^^

Also as mentioned I'd hazard to guess many of the 3 - 5 tag holders are in remote areas with undersubscribed or extremely favourable odds. To complain about an imbalance or poor management on the raw numbers is unreasonable in my opinion.

If you were to find that 20 guys were getting 3-18 Moose, Antlerless Deer and Kamloops lake Sheep. Then sure....seems unfair. But I am fairly confident this is not the case. Guys are picking up multiple tags at 3 and above by putting in for tags where others are not.


EDIT: Jumped the gun and posted this after only reading to page 3. Having read the whole thread I see clarity was gained and all is right in the thread again...well sort of...now we are on to the topic of FNs and land access...heads to the undersubscribed threads on the forum to avoid whats next. ;-)

[dana]

Hunterguy,
I was just clarifying that the new Supreme Court decision does not change things for bands with existing treaties.

[Hillbros_96]

This year I was drawn for 3 tags, bull moose, grizz, and antlerless mule deer. This is the 4th year In a row I've drawn bull moose. 2 of the draws were undersubscribed with the third being almost undersubscribed. I choose these draw units because I am a sucker for a extremely hard hunt. Very good chance to be skunked on all 3. And yet I put in year after year for these kinds of units because I would rather hunt than sit and bitch about not hunting online like many in this thread are doing. All of you who didn't get drawn had every opportunity to put in for the same hunt codes I did, but guess what, you didn't!!!! And now you are upset and think the system is flawed because I drew 3 tags this year, and it is the 4th year I drew a bull moose tag. You could be me sitting with 3 tags in your pocket, but you chose not to. You have no one to blame but yourselves!!! Never a year goes by that I don't get drawn! Why??? Because I put in for Shitty Hunts! I do put in for high odds sheep and goats every year. I've never pulled a high odds hunt ever in my life. But....I get low odds and undersubscibed tags every year. I can tell ya, luck has nothing to do with it.

X2 The side benefit is also that the hunting pressure is so much lower as well.