guide outfitter for a living

[primmed99]

Good day gents,

I have recently had the good fortune of becoming unemployed. Now its been 2 years in the making but I finally struck a deal with a multi national utility company in the purchase of the company I have spent the last 15 years building. So this has left me with the last 30 days of some serious self reflection and the forever "wondering" of what "am I going to do when I grow up". I am a fairly avid and accomplished hunter, have spent multiply weeks solo alpine hunting, own pack horses, have gotten some great trophies in the 45 days a year average I have been lucky enough to spent hunting. By no means am I claiming to know it all or have even done it all but I'm confident in my skills and being able to hold my own.

I have a young family and have been seriously wanting to relocate for some time (spend 50% lowermainland and 50% calgary/edmonton) but with the sale of the business that too has come to a end. I am currently 35 years old, so def not ready to pack it in, and have been kicking around ideas for my next challenge in life. I'd like it to revolve around my love for the outdoors so I can again love what I do for a living. I have been exploring the idea of purchasing a outfitter business as my next venture.

My question is for the people out there that have experience in the whole guide outfitter industry, either as guides or owners of the business.
1. Is it viable, does it make money?
2. Whats your opinion on the future of the business
3. What are the main barriers to entry in the industry
4. Your opinion on what kind of species do the most succesful territories have (I am assuming sheep) but would like to know if I am wrong
5. mccowan and mcbride realty seem to have all the listing for territories is there any other places on the web where people list these( I could always call and chat to current owners and see if they are interested in selling
6. I have noticed most the more sought-after territories are 750k and up as far as asking price, any clue what the largest top 5 would be worth to purchase
1m-2m or would it be way more?

Thanks to anyone that takes their time to throw some answers or opinions my way, and pls I really do appreciate everyones input and criticism I don't need any lectures on how much hard work it is and how it will consume all my time or anything of that nature. I can assure you my last business wasn't built on puppy dog tails and rainbows. I am not adverse to hard work and commitment. Really just looking for a business venture I can be passionate about and raise my 2 boys and family in.

thanks in advance

[lip_ripper00]

Get to know the local natives, the way things are going if your not on the same page........... you are not on the same planet!!!

[rifleman]

as a guide I don't think it is a good career for a family man.
If you owned the outfit then you could make a go of it.
If you are going to try & buy an outfit, sheep should be on the menu.
I think you need to have been a guide for two years prior in B.C. .
Good luck, I hope it works out for you...

[Fella]

Lip_ripper took the words out of my mouth. Do some serious research into First Nations land claims because in the next 10~ years we could be seeing some major shifts in the way we access land. If you do pull the trigger on a territory, make sure you foster good will between your company and any bands that are in the area. Even if they don't have land claims, it's the right thing to do and it might come in handy down the road if ever they were given exclusive rights.

[southsider]

PristineTrophyProperties.com
If you have questions call me.....

[guest]

Sure Hope ya have deep pockets, REAL DEEP. I personally with all the F/N BS going on would stay as far away from purchasing any thing. Just thinking of your family.

Good luck to you though.

Nothing wrong with following your dreams. Its the consequences ya have to live with.

[bearvalley]

Primmed99, a hunting business can be viable. There are two types of shows that can work. If you want to have one of the bigger outfits with multiple guides, use airplanes and maintain a string of ponies etc... You'd better have some sheep. The other type of show that can work is the one that has easy access ( no aircraft needed ), low operating expenses and you are willing to do the majority of the work yourself. As to the future of guided hunts in BC... Who knows? Guided hunts have been around a long time but are resource dependent, therefore vulnerable. You're main barrier coming in as the new kid on the block will be booking clients. If you can afford to be half booked for a couple of years and run a good show, the clients will come. Get along with your neighbours, whether it be the local band members or resident hunters. If you show some respect you usually get it back. Spend a season in an outfitters camp, there's a lot more to it than throwing on the backpack and going for a hunt or spending 4 fun filled days at SCI or the other shows(haha). If the wife and kids get into it, outfitting can be a great family lifestyle. Give Harry a call if your serious.

[boxhitch]

Tough for anyone to answer those completely . There is a vast range of type of operations, from the 'year round life-style that include ranching and trapping' , to the 'rent a truck - book a motel '.
Huge commitment difference. Either can deliver a phenomenal product , or a hope and a prayer , but both have to sell the product to get customers . Some outfits never make money but have committed investors .
Best to get some insight from inside the industry , maybe befriend or partner in an outfit for a season and get your hands dirty , so to speak. Visit a hunt show like SCI or WSF this winter to see what the 'sell' is about.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Tough for anyone to answer those completely . There is a vast range of type of operations, from the 'year round life-style that include ranching and trapping' , to the 'rent a truck - book a motel '.
Huge commitment difference. Either can deliver a phenomenal product , or a hope and a prayer , but both have to sell the product to get customers . Some outfits never make money but have committed investors .
Best to get some insight from inside the industry , maybe befriend or partner in an outfit for a season and get your hands dirty , so to speak. Visit a hunt show like SCI or WSF this winter to see what the 'sell' is about.

This is sound advice.

Personally, with all the uncertainty regarding FN land titles, I would think this is probably one of the worst times to think about diving into the GO industry.

Having said that, there might just be a few 'fire sales' in the near future once the writing on the walls comes into focus.
Still seems risky to me.

SSS

[325]

I would buy in the Yukon, not BC. Aboriginal land issues combined with a largely urban electorate who don't like "trophy" hunting, would make me nervous about committing in BC.

[Jagermeister]

This is sound advice.

Personally, with all the uncertainty regarding FN land titles, I would think this is probably one of the worst times to think about diving into the GO industry.

Having said that, there might just be a few 'fire sales' in the near future once the writing on the walls comes into focus.
Still seems risky to me.

SSS
SSS has dispensed the most sound advice yet.
The 1ST nations are going to be rumbling and rolling for a few years in this province.
One of the first things that some of the hinterland nations will be looking at will be the G/O business. It is an easy assimilation for them so any "fire sales" on G/O territories will be snapped up by them. Then considering that they have the easy access to taxpayer funding they are good to go until they tire of having to beckon the call to work.
Later, when like some of their other enterprise failures, you may be able to slide under the wire and pick up a guide concession. However, I think they will continue to control that under a royalty system.
If you're bent on the G/O business, consider the east side of the divide south of 54th. Keep in mind sheep.

[Wild Images]

http://www.mccowans.com/

Have a talk with Harry, wealth of knowledge both in buying and running a show

[primmed99]

LOL I went to both shows this winter thats what gave me the bug lol.


Tough for anyone to answer those completely . There is a vast range of type of operations, from the 'year round life-style that include ranching and trapping' , to the 'rent a truck - book a motel '.
Huge commitment difference. Either can deliver a phenomenal product , or a hope and a prayer , but both have to sell the product to get customers . Some outfits never make money but have committed investors .
Best to get some insight from inside the industry , maybe befriend or partner in an outfit for a season and get your hands dirty , so to speak. Visit a hunt show like SCI or WSF this winter to see what the 'sell' is about.

[primmed99]

Why would you recommend that area just out of curiosity? How likely is it that first nations could come lay claim to all ready protected areas i.e. muskwa-kechika


SSS has dispensed the most sound advice yet.
The 1ST nations are going to be rumbling and rolling for a few years in this province.
One of the first things that some of the hinterland nations will be looking at will be the G/O business. It is an easy assimilation for them so any "fire sales" on G/O territories will be snapped up by them. Then considering that they have the easy access to taxpayer funding they are good to go until they tire of having to beckon the call to work.
Later, when like some of their other enterprise failures, you may be able to slide under the wire and pick up a guide concession. However, I think they will continue to control that under a royalty system.
If you're bent on the G/O business, consider the east side of the divide south of 54th. Keep in mind sheep.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Why would you recommend that area just out of curiosity? How likely is it that first nations could come lay claim to all ready protected areas i.e. muskwa-kechika
Tahltans will be next to kick everyone out. Their chief has said that non Talhtans who want to hunt their lands should have to be guided by Talhtans.

Its coming soon.

[bearvalley]

Tahltans will be next to kick everyone out. Their chief has said that non Talhtans who want to hunt their lands should have to be guided by Talhtans.

Its coming soon.

To what extent? Guided resident hunts?

[Beachcomber]

Could you get involved from a booking agent perspective - ie help connect overseas hunters with reputable, high success outfitters in BC? That would give you a slightly arms length way of getting to know the industry and the good territories province wide while watching how the FN situation pans out. Risk mitigation seems like a good strategy at this stage but this is one way to stay involved the game without having a lot of skin in it and potentially be well positioned for that fire sale event should it materialise. Have a look at publications like The Field in UK that advertise high end guided hunts globally. Might provide some ideas.

[Darksith]

r u a fellow kamloops boy? Last name start with a P? The story sure fits...hopefully I can still get poles and such as easy.

Anyway, I would be fairly concerned about what is happening in the courts, I wouldn't be rushing into buying up a high priced guiding territory, but that being said there is no reason you can't go get a job with someone, or buy into a company kind of thing just to try it out, learn the business kinda situation for a year or 2 before you jump in with both feet. Hopefully that will buy some time which could allow you to see how this is all going to shake out.

on the other hand, this could make some people nervous and you might be able to buy a territory in the near future for somewhat of a discount due to the political uncertainty of it all, but its gonna have some extra risk involved. Having the opportunity to chase a dream is amazing, and if you are who I think you are you have totally earned it.

Either way, good luck and enjoy

[primmed99]

Lol ;-)......


r u a fellow kamloops boy? Last name start with a P? The story sure fits...hopefully I can still get poles and such as easy.

Anyway, I would be fairly concerned about what is happening in the courts, I wouldn't be rushing into buying up a high priced guiding territory, but that being said there is no reason you can't go get a job with someone, or buy into a company kind of thing just to try it out, learn the business kinda situation for a year or 2 before you jump in with both feet. Hopefully that will buy some time which could allow you to see how this is all going to shake out.

on the other hand, this could make some people nervous and you might be able to buy a territory in the near future for somewhat of a discount due to the political uncertainty of it all, but its gonna have some extra risk involved. Having the opportunity to chase a dream is amazing, and if you are who I think you are you have totally earned it.

Either way, good luck and enjoy

[goinghunting]

Hey primmed99, if your avatar is your trophy room holy crap lets see some pics and here some stories!

[358mag]

Check with Goat Guy sure he can give you some advice ......:mrgreen::mrgreen: