Did anyone notice the bottom of the LEH page?

[1899]

It says:



Important Notice To all BC resident hunters who may be planning to hunt in Management Units 5-04 and 5-05: Your ability to exercise hunting privileges in these management units may be affected by a recent Supreme Court of Canada decision regarding the Tsilhqot'in Nation: http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/14246/index.do The Province is currently analyzing the decision.
If you applied for a Limited Entry Hunting (LEH) Authorization for moose, mountain goat, or antlerless mule deer in Management Units (MUs) 5-04 or 5-05, you will not be able to retrieve LEH draw results for these MUs at this time. However, you will be notified separately at a later date and in writing of the draw results for these species in MUs 5-04 and 5-05. Unfortunately, we are currently unable to indicate when you can expect to receive your notification, but we will endeavour to notify you as soon as possible.
Notices related to how the decision may impact General Open Season and other hunting activities within MUs 5-04 and 5-05 will be posted on the Fish and Wildlife website homepage as soon as possible.




How long til this applies to the rest of the province?

[Good2bCanadian]

I read the same . Grrrr

[Doostien]

Wonder where this could go. Maybe we'll be buying tags from Indian bands soon.

[1899]

Wonder where this could go. Maybe we'll be buying tags from Indian bands soon.

Plus trespass fees.

[Whiterock]

Wonder where this could go. Maybe we'll be buying tags from Indian bands soon.

For me,,that day will never happen. I will hunt out of country first.

[Fred1]

Yup... stocking up on lube....

[Wentrot]

wow, that aint good

[whitlers]

We have been hunting in that valley for years. Im sad to see this and I hope it gets sorted out. We have had our run ins with the natives up there once or twice but usually they are friendly.

[Bubba123]

We have been hunting in that valley for years. Im sad to see this and I hope it gets sorted out. We have had our run ins with the natives up there once or twice but usually they are friendly.

Well, they are land owners now.

[dougan]

Let's just hunt there land with no tags far as I'm concerned

[markt308]

Guys we need to be organized and dead serious about this. We can have our say in this matter. Remember two years ago when we had a petition going all because the natives in that area threatened to block a road? Well I would say this roughly 1000 times worse. Once this precidant is set I'm scared to see what bands will attempt to follow suit

[Kami]

I am ready to put effort into stopping this. This is serious. Let's get organized. Who else is ready to make an organized effort?

[1899]

The precedent IS set. There is a big difference between this and the natives blocking access to Crown land. From the decision:

The nature of Aboriginal title is that it confers on the group that holds it the exclusive right to decide how the land is used and the right to benefit from those uses, subject to the restriction that the uses must be consistent with the group nature of the interest and the enjoyment of the land by future generations.

[BULLNUTTS]

I agree that a united action needs to be taken- however first we must ask against whom or what? As it is the gov itself , though court ruling,that has created this racist situation.Fighting natives is not an easy thing to undertake in any way thinkable- they have time,money,and a focus of issue that any group going against will be very hard pressed to match.Right or wrong , fighting a subsidised group funded in endless ways and given leeway at every turn plus the leagues of those just not willing to stick the neck out is a steep hill to climb.As the gov and courts continue to feed the racist monster separation will continue to grow doubletime.Viewed as a victory the group is already stepping up on further separetist actions.But which monster do you attack first??? Just a few thoughts anyways.....Everyone here knows that I'm an " all for one" Canadian. Good Huntin BULLNUTTS

[gutpile]

Sad sad sad !

[Whiterock]

When I quit hunting in BC,,(which is coming),,I will be calling the chamber of commerce of each town I used to travel thru and tell them why Im not supporting the merchants in their town. I will also write the Minister of forests and tell them Im not buying any more liscence or tags. The only way, in my opinion to fight this would be if every outdoors person just stopped spending money in the areas affected. It might take a while, but the only way to fight the Gov,,is thru its wallet.

[two-feet]

this is scary. our days may be numbered.

[markt308]

The thing is, it's not just hunters, fisherman and outdoorsman that should be concerned about this. Every citizen of this province should be concerned! More than concerned, they should be appalled at this racist BS

[1899]

The thing is, it's not just hunters, fisherman and outdoorsman that should be concerned about this. Every citizen of this province should be concerned! More than concerned, they should be appalled at this racist BS

What are people going to do about it? Aboriginal Rights are enshrined in the Charter - thanks Pierre Elliot Trudeau - and I spit when I say his name.

[abbyfireguy]

We are hooped now in those areas . They are legally the owners now,not the government.. No recourse I would think. Better find new areas to hunt...

[rcar]

I was raised on an ancient Mohawk campground. "our" land was occupied by the Mohawk nation for what had to be nearly a thousand years judging by the fire pit we dug out and uncovered. My father was a pro native anthropologist (and has his PHD in southern Ontario Native Anthropology and our library growing up was quite amazing. I spent my youth uncovering history in my back yard only to see my collection of nearly a quarter million dollars that I had "loaned" to the Brantford Museum taken back by the local native band and sold within days.....After the Gov't decision that all artifacts belonged to those who made it.....)

I moved to BC in 1994 with a healthy and positive attitude to Native issues.

Recent history (living for 5 years in a new development that the natives sold to developers and posts like this have soured me.)

I hate what the USA has done for and to the native people there.......but maybe with crap like this we might need to reconsider our approach.

Oh by the way...I own and hunt in region 5.

[markt308]

We are hooped now in those areas . They are legally the owners now,not the government.. No recourse I would think. Better find new areas to hunt...

Haha that's my point! I realize it may be too late for that part of Region 5, but if we make no fuss at all there will not be any place for us to hunt

[1899]

Haha that's my point! I realize it may be too late for that part of Region 5, but if we make no fuss at all there will not be any place for us to hunt

There are 18 bands in BC waiting for their turn. The Federal government will only deal with 6 at a time.

[Wentrot]

So what's a guy to do? I feel like this is beyond writing a letter.

[.300WSMImpact!]

the guide outfits are happy about this outcome

[Ajsawden]

we should be refunded the price of the leh ticket if they are going to pull this bs.

[Jagermeister]

There are 198 bands in BC, about ⅓ the total number of all in Canada. And few have treaties.

[bearvalley]

the guide outfits are happy about this outcome

You should have a talk with the guy that outfits in the middle of this mess. It would be more productive than just peddling BS.

[Chopper]

good eye ... goose bumps

[huff]

I see it no different then timber west gating all the lands the the gov't gave them... maybe we could target them first.. Corporate rights are enshrined in charter... what are we going to do about this .
fracking in northern bc is tainting ground water what are we going to do about this ? The highest concentration of cancer cases in Alberta come from Northern Alberta ,what are we going to do about this? The Gov't wants to send crude oil to China what are we going to do about it... all our raw logs go to China. Old Age Pension was raised to 67 what are we going to do about this. Oh who the frack cares ,lets go after the damn indians.

[gutpile]

It's going to afact many people in BC , forest industry, mining, ranching.
Going to piss alot of people off ! This has open a can of worms!

[markomoose]

I-ve also hunted that valley more than once .Beautiful country but I doubt I will ever hunt there again?I hate to say it but I'm actually happy I didn't get a moose draw as I put in for region 5-5.

[LYKTOHUNT]

I see it no different then timber west gating all the lands the the gov't gave them... maybe we could target them first.. Corporate rights are enshrined in charter... what are we going to do about this .
fracking in northern bc is tainting ground water what are we going to do about this ? The highest concentration of cancer cases in Alberta come from Northern Alberta ,what are we going to do about this? The Gov't wants to send crude oil to China what are we going to do about it... all our raw logs go to China. Old Age Pension was raised to 67 what are we going to do about this. Oh who the frack cares ,lets go after the damn indians.
One step at a time, lets start at the bottom of the page

[hunter1947]

The government can go stick it where the sun don't shine I hate the government to no end they sell us out and get paid big bucks for making the wrong decisions..

[houndogger]

The drum beaters on here are more concerned about one farm buck backroom deal...way to go. Said it years ago outfitters ain't your concern natives will be.

[Kudu]

Let's just hunt there land with no tags far as I'm concerned

Now that is a sensible idea eh?

Hate to say it - what's happening now is way over due...these treaties should have been hammered out a very long time ago.

I guess BC's hunters are going to have to adjust to the new land dispensation, or simply find another way to deal with the loss of Management Units.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

the guide outfits are happy about this outcome

Really do you really think that.At this point I can't even take clients this fall in half of my area, clients that have booked some 2 years in advance. It all comes down to a yes or no from the chief.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

The drum beaters on here are more concerned about one farm buck backroom deal...way to go. Said it years ago outfitters ain't your concern natives will be.

The allocation needs to be dealt with as well, but this right now is the biggest issue. The Chilcotin nation is joining forces to expand this new territory as we discuss this. this will cover most of the Chilcotin when done.

[digger dogger]

I was told about 10yrs ago, "within 20-25yrs indians will own ALL WILDLIFE IN BC"
I think this man is on his way to being correct.

[300win]

yup... Stocking up on lube....

lmao.............!!!

[sako_300]

from reading through this it is very apparent that most posters don't understand this was a SCC decision, not Provincial. In other words, the Province (BC gov't) is just as screwed as we are here. You want to sort this out it isn't going to do any good to fling shit in their direction.

That statement does not indicate that I'm OK with the current status of treaties in BC....

I will say this - hunting in that territory is done for the season (at a minimum). I'll bet anybody a drink that's willing

[Jagermeister]

Argentina is looking better and better every day.
I am cheering for Argentina today.
sí Argentina

[remington666]

Well thats horseshit i applied for moose and doe in 5-04 ,guess i just wasted 12$

[Wentrot]

Well thats horseshit i applied for moose and doe in 5-04 ,guess i just wasted 12$

That's not true, you bought the chief a couple packs of smokes!

[JLsteel]

The horror, I can picture it now. BC will become Texas where it is practically all private owned land. The Indians will set up high fence operations and charge us to hunt their "farm" animals.

[Kudu]

The horror, I can picture it now. BC will become Texas where it is practically all private owned land. The Indians will set up high fence operations and charge us to hunt their "farm" animals.

Day fees and trophy / meat fees, are not completely foreign to hunters in other countries - this could be realistic in BC sometime down the road!

[Gr8 white hunter]

When these parasites kill off everything you won't have to worry about going there to hunt. And it won't take long.

[Eastbranch]

How about everyone who got LEH for those units swallow their redneck pride and phone up the band office and ask permission from the land owners to hunt there this fall? Better yet, if you live in the region, attend a council meeting (they are usually public) ask them in person and tell them how respectful of their land you will be while you hunt there. People usually turn out to be pretty decent if you don't assume they're trying to f you over.

[604redneck]

How about everyone who got LEH for those units swallow their redneck pride and phone up the band office and ask permission from the land owners to hunt there this fall? Better yet, if you live in the region, attend a council meeting (they are usually public) ask them in person and tell them how respectful of their land you will be while you hunt there. People usually turn out to be pretty decent if you don't assume they're trying to f you over.
I don't know if I would be supporting them......

[howa1500]

You can thank successive Canadian and Provincial governments not treating native bands with respect, and not decisively dealing with treaties sooner rather than later. This isn't a "native" issue but a piss poor government issue. Had previous governments not appropriately dealt with land claims, blown up the indian act, and dealt with incompetent bands, chiefs, managers, we wouldn't be here.

Natives should have been given land rights eons ago, it would have been up to them to sell/squander/improve their resources as they saw fit, I gurantee most of the province wouldn't be under land claim, and would be crown land, or sold by now if that were the case.

[ACE]

The Federal Government is not your friend ....
Get mad at the FN people if you want, but they didn't make this Supreme Court of Canada ruling, they didn't create the Indian Act, they didn't create the Indian Reserves ..... we did.
The FN people are the only ones with big enough balls to take on the Provincial and Federal Governments .... they have the patience and the smarts to present their case, and do it in a way that the rest of the world will watch. Indigenous people around the globe are starting stand up and be heard and noticed.

What do we do about it? I don't really think there is a 'cut and dried' answer to this complex situation ....
Withhold your Federal tax payable?
Do as a previous poster suggested ..... inform town and business' that you won't be patronizing them anymore?
Remember that we are fighting ourselves and the slack-assed governments we elected ... the governments that refused to negotiate treaties in B.C. The governments shuffled native issues under the rug, while other provinces honoured treaties that were in place decades before ...

Any and all ideas should be welcomed in this thread ...... hope the moderators let this one run ....

[hunter1947]

The Federal Government is not your friend ....
Get mad at the FN people if you want, but they didn't make this Supreme Court of Canada ruling, they didn't create the Indian Act, they didn't create the Indian Reserves ..... we did.
The FN people are the only ones with big enough balls to take on the Provincial and Federal Governments .... they have the patience and the smarts to present their case, and do it in a way that the rest of the world will watch. Indigenous people around the globe are starting stand up and be heard and noticed.

What do we do about it? I don't really think there is a 'cut and dried' answer to this complex situation ....
Withhold your Federal tax payable?
Do as a previous poster suggested ..... inform town and business' that you won't be patronizing them anymore?
Remember that we are fighting ourselves and the slack-assed governments we elected ... the governments that refused to negotiate treaties in B.C. The governments shuffled native issues under the rug, while other provinces honoured treaties that were in place decades before ...

Any and all ideas should be welcomed in this thread ...... hope the moderators let this one run ....

Ya because some of the white face people need to give there head a shake..

[Wentrot]

So youre anti private property rights? What a socialist.

Or are you just against FN rights and title? Because that makes you a racist.

Why does the racist word need to be brought into every discussion about this type of thing, I swear the FN call racism every single damn time and it is annoying. You clearly have not seen racism.

[604redneck]

If that's the way u look at it arctic red then yes I am racist.

[Mulehahn]

Coming at this from a different direction, how is that only "whitey" is affected. I personally know several non-white or FN people who hunt. Many from countries that suffered as bad if not worse autocracies during colonization. But they seem to have no say. This court decision basically said that 5% of population of BC has more rights then 30% (if we include every single Caucasian even if they are not of British ancestry, take out British Ancestry and the number is closer to 85%). How do you explain to someone who comes from real oppression like in parts of Africa and Asia and tell them welcome but, um yeah, you are not allowed to go there, can't buy land there, and that mill you work at will close down because you got your citizenship in a country that rules you have to pay for the sins of the country that oppressed you back home. I have a solid grasp of FN history, know several and can honestly say that all under the age of 40 have a chance to succeed if they truly want it. What was done to FNs was horrible, and steps must be taken to rectify it. But at the cost of oppressing 95% of the population, and all future immigrants is not the right path.

[.300WSMImpact!]

The allocation needs to be dealt with as well, but this right now is the biggest issue. The Chilcotin nation is joining forces to expand this new territory as we discuss this. this will cover most of the Chilcotin when done.

as we all know the only thing that matters when it comes to natives is money, not conservation, maybe not this year but if it stays the way it is the native will sell the hunting rights, and resident hunters cant afford what guides would be able to pay, so yes this will only benefit the guides in the long run

[edgar11]

Mulehahn,
You need to thank your friendly neighborhood federal government not the FN people. Something that has been hanging around for eons and was expected to "go away" has somehow reared its ugly head years later. I ask you this. Does someone lose their property just because 100 years have passed? Does a deal get quashed because one side of the two partys decides to not follow through with their commitment? Did everyone think that the FN people were going to continue living in the "dark ages" and not become educated and fight the "System" with their "own" medicine. This was inevitable and was going to happen sooner or later.

[guest]

Here we go .... I'll go get some popcorn ..... What a bunch of b s!

[David]

You can thank successive Canadian and Provincial governments not treating native bands with respect, and not decisively dealing with treaties sooner rather than later. This isn't a "native" issue but a piss poor government issue. Had previous governments not appropriately dealt with land claims, blown up the indian act, and dealt with incompetent bands, chiefs, managers, we wouldn't be here.

Natives should have been given land rights eons ago, it would have been up to them to sell/squander/improve their resources as they saw fit, I gurantee most of the province wouldn't be under land claim, and would be crown land, or sold by now if that were the case.

Partly true...
Native bands have refused to admit that they were "conquered" or that they ever "ceded" land to Canada. They have relied on case law which basically says that land can only be conquered through war or treaty.

Problem is, just as we've discovered that "war" on terror is not war that fits into any neat definition, people can be conquered and land can be ceded in many different ways. The City of Vancouver just passed a motion that Vancouver occupies "unceded Native land" - the motion means nothing as municipalities don't have any legal authority to deal with land, but the important point is that if for 100 years someone else has a built a house on "your" land - it was ceded, regardless of whether or not there was a war, treaty, or what-have-you.

Where I disagree with the point the poster made is that in the past 30-40 years, we've treated Native bands with TOO MUCH respect, in a white-man's guilt over residential schools and other abuses. There is no doubt that we wronged them and treated them poorly, but that doesn't mean they weren't conquered - they were. Instead of driving that point home, government insisted on pandering to the idea of the "noble savage", that Native peoples are somehow genetically predisposed to treating the land better than the "white man", and that they retained ownership of what we had taken from them (ignoring for the moment that most Natives didn't even believe in a concept of land ownership).

Governments have created this problem by pandering to this ideal amongst the average Canadian who does not want to admit that we "conquered" Natives.

[hunter1947]

I have never been a racist person I treat all colored people the same as what I would want to be treated I just don't understand why the white face government don't give out some land to the white people that are finding it very hard to live in this world that is getting so hard to live in..
I never hear land given to our own at a low dollar to the ones that live in poverty or am I wrong on my statement am I missing something ???.

[HarryToolips]

I have never been a racist person I treat all colored people the same as what I would want to be treated I just don't understand why the white face government don't give out some land to the white people that are finding it very hard to live in this world that is getting so hard to live in..
I never hear land given to our own at a low dollar to the ones that live in poverty or am I wrong on my statement am I missing something ???.

Your right...and people expect other fellow non First Nation's Canadians to not be prejudice against FN's..well the government is dividing us in many ways by all the perks they give them...

[RugDoctor]

Racist because you don't agree with a ruling involving FN? Now we can't even have an opinion on subject matter involving FN unless it's agreement? You're the racist.

Smarts and patients? How about lots of time with nothing else to do? The average, working, tax paying man is by in large defeated at the starting gate. As important as these things are, I need to go to work. I can't sit around at protests all day crying about my poor situation that 100 years later is still somehow someone else's fault. I can write all the letters I want to....big deal. Until I'm a paid band official, or sitting on the dole just waiting to clog up some court time, we'll...I guess I'll JUST GO BACK TO WORK.

[Jelvis]

I did read it, thanks and the one poster was saying the Indians were defeated.
When the first ship hit the shores of Canada they were not fighting and blowing off cannons against the Indians. The people on the boat were begging to get help because they were lost at sea.
jel -- I don't think the one boat of people beat the Indians at war lol.

[edgar11]

[QUOTE=David;1516309]Partly true...
Native bands have refused to admit that they were "conquered" or that they ever "ceded" land to Canada. They have relied on case law which basically says that land can only be conquered through war or treaty.

Problem is, just as we've discovered that "war" on terror is not war that fits into any neat definition, people can be conquered and land can be ceded in many different ways. The City of Vancouver just passed a motion that Vancouver occupies "unceded Native land" - the motion means nothing as municipalities don't have any legal authority to deal with land, but the important point is that if for 100 years someone else has a built a house on "your" land - it was ceded, regardless of whether or not there was a war, treaty, or what-have-you.

Where I disagree with the point the poster made is that in the past 30-40 years, we've treated Native bands with TOO MUCH respect, in a white-man's guilt over residential schools and other abuses. There is no doubt that we wronged them and treated them poorly, but that doesn't mean they weren't conquered - they were. Instead of driving that point home, government insisted on pandering to the idea of the "noble savage", that Native peoples are somehow genetically predisposed to treating the land better than the "white man", and that they retained ownership of what we had taken from them (ignoring for the moment that most Natives didn't even believe in a concept of land ownership).

Governments have created this problem by pandering to this ideal amongst the average Canadian who does not want to admit that we "conquered" Natives.[/Q

Not sure where you come to the conclusion that the FN were "conquered" somewhere in history. Care to provide "Proof" of that. All of the documents and laws of this land(Canada) say otherwise.

[Kami]

It seems as though every thing was fine and dandy in the wilds of the Americas until European settlers showed up. We documented everything. Wrote down our history and studied it. We wrote and recorded everything to own own demise. What went on for centuries before chez whitey showed up? We can put puzzle pieces together from lithographs and artifacts. We can listen to centuries old stories from Native elders. Is anything written and documented from before European settlers showed up? Is it possible American natives displaced other people? Did the Mohawk displace the Iroquois for example! Who's land is it really? I'd like to hear about proof. We have proof that white man displaced the people who were here when we arrived. We wrote it all down. What about before us?
This whole situation stinks. I too was born here. I was raised here. I pay a !€^ load of taxes. I was a given a name by my father and set free in this country to earn my own living and survive on my own. If I am racist, I am racist to all people who rely on Govt handouts, social programs, and lawyers to survive. Regardless of colour or creed.

[Jelvis]

Pay your taxes to BC and Canada on all things that you are taxed by them first
With no fraud at all, being perfectly honest.
Try that then tell the other ones you can't stand to look at, that your perfect and mean it, or your no bedder den anyone else.
( Don't Tell Me ) How -- work on your own life and see the log in your eye --
Take your hump and jump I'm no chump -- ok Champ? Yust Yokin settle down ok?
Jelly ( Sliver ) Giver

[Papa Sasquatch]

I read somewhere that Within a few more years it is expected that one out of 4 Canadian will have been born here and those few will be screwed so badly have having no protective rights of their own. We know about Native rights. What we don't know so much about Is the Asian immigration conspiracy. South Asian employers do not hire Canadians, they are Racist and subsidized by all Government parties and individual. Not a single politician will admitted. None the less Phone books supporting the Anti Canadian job creations are just a piece of evidence. Chinese Employers do not hire Canadians unless they speak the language. No one can touch em. Vietnamese ... Korean every one is racist against Canadian Job creation for Canadians and we cannot count on our elected officials to stand up for any of us. Why? I could only assume!

[Papa Sasquatch]

OK I got carried away. LEH Yehhhhh!

[liambobbi]

This is why I'm leaving bc ,Yukon here I come

[Papa Sasquatch]

Does your Mommy live in the Yukon?

[revarchery]

I was born here and this is my sacred land. As far as I am concerned we have just as much rights to use it as any natives.

[liambobbi]

No australia

[Walking Buffalo]

Why is the BC Gov. delaying LEH authorizations for 5-04,05?

The Title area and the claimed area make up but a portion of this area (estimating less than 10% of 5-05 and less than 20% of 5-04). It doesn't make sense to withhold licences when there is still a large area for people to hunt outside of the new titled land.




http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/XeniGwichin.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/user/keetspics/media/XeniGwichin.jpg.html)


Rough copy of Titled area.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/Xeni5-05-04Titlearea.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/user/keetspics/media/Xeni5-05-04Titlearea.jpg.html)

[remington666]

That's not true, you bought the chief a couple packs of smokes!
Lol and a big bottle of sherry

[markomoose]

I was enthralled by your post there Kami!You made some very good points!Sit by my campfire anytime!

[Kami]

Which post? The one that got deleted along with the whole thread? I assume I was in the wrong place on this forum. Politics has a different section. I have been hanging out over there lately. Either that, or when I got to stating facts and figures from an annual reservation budget review it was possibly too much?
Thanks anyway markomoose. Maybe one day we will share a campfire. LOL.

[Jagermeister]

Lol. No. I live in the arctic and grew up in northern BC but i have never 'seen' racism. Good one. If you are against First Nation peoples having title to land it makes you by definition a racist. Discrimination against a group of people based on their race or ethnic background.

People need to stay out of discussions they arent equipped to handle. Uninformed garbage like whats been posted here is the reason this situation exists. You voted for it
You should put the "Out to lunch" you have for location into your signature line, I think it would be most fitting.
My opinion is that the good tax paying citizens of this province and the rest of Canada for that matter have more than paid for title to this land. In other words, the First Nations have ceded title the moment they started accepting payment from either provincial or federal governments and that was a long time ago.
Consider the $9.6 billion allocated to the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs out of a Federal budget of $52 billion for the fiscal year March 2011-March 2012. How about the $6 billion in the fiscal 2004. These sums folks went to the sole care of the Indians and is not inclusive of other monies allocated in other ministries. BTW, that was for 600,000, give or take a few. And now their ranks have swelled by the inclusion of the 750,000 Metis.
You like to mention racism. That is becoming a redundant trump card that is all too often played. Racism is really only a one way street, played by visible minorities against a white skinned majority. IT DOES NOT FLOW THE OTHER WAY..........EVER.
In February of 2013, the provincial government tendered over the grand sum of $2.9 billion to the Indians of this province for their own health care system. Pretty frigging generous of us racist white trash, wouldn't you say.
ArticRed, take your own advice. "People need to stay out of discussions they arent equipped to handle. Uninformed garbage like whats been posted here is the reason this situation exists."
I could rant on and on but will close for now with this:
Remember that slogan we were bombarded with a couple of years back, "IDLE NO MORE"? The real translation is "SHOW US THE MONEY!"

[digginsweatinswearin]

Isn't a bunch of that a Provincial park?

[edgar11]

You should put the "Out to lunch" you have for location into your signature line, I think it would be most fitting.
My opinion is that the good tax paying citizens of this province and the rest of Canada for that matter have more than paid for title to this land. In other words, the First Nations have ceded title the moment they started accepting payment from either provincial or federal governments and that was a long time ago.
Consider the $9.6 billion allocated to the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs out of a Federal budget of $52 billion for the fiscal year March 2011-March 2012. How about the $6 billion in the fiscal 2004. These sums folks went to the sole care of the Indians and is not inclusive of other monies allocated in other ministries. BTW, that was for 600,000, give or take a few. And now their ranks have swelled by the inclusion of the 750,000 Metis.
You like to mention racism. That is becoming a redundant trump card that is all too often played. Racism is really only a one way street, played by visible minorities against a white skinned majority. IT DOES NOT FLOW THE OTHER WAY..........EVER.
In February of 2013, the provincial government tendered over the grand sum of $2.9 billion to the Indians of this province for their own health care system. Pretty frigging generous of us racist white trash, wouldn't you say.
ArticRed, take your own advice. "People need to stay out of discussions they arent equipped to handle. Uninformed garbage like whats been posted here is the reason this situation exists."
I could rant on and on but will close for now with this:
Remember that slogan we were bombarded with a couple of years back, "IDLE NO MORE"? The real translation is "SHOW US THE MONEY!"

OK jagermeister lets look at your post. You say all this money is going to the FN via your tax dollars. Do you really know where this $ is really going? So you know it goes to programs such as welfare and health care. Do you not think FN people are entitled to these same basic programs as any other Canadian? I guarantee you that FN are not getting rich as you are implying.
So you say "You like to mention racism. That is becoming a redundant trump card that is all too often played. Racism is really only a one way street, played by visible minorities against a white skinned majority. IT DOES NOT FLOW THE OTHER WAY..........EVER." Really?...................Really?................. ..Are you kidding me about this? Lets see......Have you ever been told that you cannot vote? Have you ever been told you cannot speak your own language? Have you ever been told that you cannot practice your religion? Have you ever been told that your children cannot live with you? Have you ever been told that it is illegal to practice your culture? I urge you to learn more about YOUR Canadian History before you talk about something you do not completely understand.

[Kami]

Out to lunch is there in ArcticRed's location. LOL.

I would agree that a lot of people's information comes from the media which is clearly not often the real story. The real position of any media outlet is to sell more advertising at a higher price. There is a fine line there in terms of what news attracts people and what news the media decides to spin and sell to the masses. I too will admit I am guilty of lashing out in frustration based on what I hear in the media, and what we see with our own eyes in real life. It becomes our limited perception and we form an opinion. Sometimes we can develop a hate for others who cause us grief and strife.

It bugs the he ll out of me that we give hundreds of millions of tax dollars yearly to natives across Canada. It pains me to see the taxes I pay every year and so much of it go to Native affairs. It frustrates me because I truly do not fully understand why we do this, and why it has carried on for so many years and will continue. I have a limited perception, as what I see, I believe is special treatment. I will not only pay a lot of income taxes this year, I will also pay $16,000 a year on top of that to send my son for a university education. Status Natives can have it paid by tax dollars. I am frustrated. Period. I have a limited perception, I will admit. I have never lived on a reserve. I have no Native friends. All I know, I heard from the media, mostly word of mouth, and history books. I am ignorant when it comes to Native affairs. I am focusing more time on it lately. I want to learn more. I want to form a fair educated, understanding opinion. I am considering going to a local native band meeting and taking things from there.

[edgar11]

Out to lunch is there in ArcticRed's location. LOL.

I would agree that a lot of people's information comes from the media which is clearly not often the real story. The real position of any media outlet is to sell more advertising at a higher price. There is a fine line there in terms of what news attracts people and what news the media decides to spin and sell to the masses. I too will admit I am guilty of lashing out in frustration based on what I hear in the media, and what we see with our own eyes in real life. It becomes our limited perception and we form an opinion. Sometimes we can develop a hate for others who cause us grief and strife.

It bugs the he ll out of me that we give hundreds of millions of tax dollars yearly to natives across Canada. It pains me to see the taxes I pay every year and so much of it go to Native affairs. It frustrates me because I truly do not fully understand why we do this, and why it has carried on for so many years and will continue. I have a limited perception, as what I see, I believe is special treatment. I will not only pay a lot of income taxes this year, I will also pay $16,000 a year on top of that to send my son for a university education. Status Natives can have it paid by tax dollars. I am frustrated. Period. I have a limited perception, I will admit. I have never lived on a reserve. I have no Native friends. All I know, I heard from the media, mostly word of mouth, and history books. I am ignorant when it comes to Native affairs. I am focusing more time on it lately. I want to learn more. I want to form a fair educated, understanding opinion. I am considering going to a local native band meeting and taking things from there.

I understand your frustration Kami I also pay taxes and then pay more taxes after that like everybody else. You are "barking up the wrong tree" though because although the FN are the beneficiaries of these "special considerations" they are made from rules brought out from the CANADIAN government of which each FN person must follow. Like I said before, if they would only sit down and hash out some kind of mutual agreement, this would all be over. It appears to me that they would rather have FN fighting with other FN's and Non-FN fighting against FN and so on and so on, leaving them with their hands clean of everything. They call us a "democratic society" but do they really do what we want or ask of them? I have to admit I voted for Harper and I watched him proceed to do the opposite of what he promised prior to being elected. I see the whole "voting" system a huge problem with not only Canadian Government politics but also the "Chief" system for Reserves. Wouldn't it be nice if the Politicians were "Made" to keep their promises and were held accountable if they reneged on them. Such would be the perfect life.

[Wild one]

I understand your frustration Kami I also pay taxes and then pay more taxes after that like everybody else. You are "barking up the wrong tree" though because although the FN are the beneficiaries of these "special considerations" they are made from rules brought out from the CANADIAN government of which each FN person must follow. Like I said before, if they would only sit down and hash out some kind of mutual agreement, this would all be over. It appears to me that they would rather have FN fighting with other FN's and Non-FN fighting against FN and so on and so on, leaving them with their hands clean of everything. They call us a "democratic society" but do they really do what we want or ask of them? I have to admit I voted for Harper and I watched him proceed to do the opposite of what he promised prior to being elected. I see the whole "voting" system a huge problem with not only Canadian Government politics but also the "Chief" system for Reserves. Wouldn't it be nice if the Politicians were "Made" to keep their promises and were held accountable if they reneged on them. Such would be the perfect life.


It would make everyone in this countries life a lot easier if all forms of politician were held accountable for there actions.

I don't think there is anyone that could disagree with that other than politicians

[Jagermeister]

OK jagermeister lets look at your post. You say all this money is going to the FN via your tax dollars. Do you really know where this $ is really going? So you know it goes to programs such as welfare and health care. Do you not think FN people are entitled to these same basic programs as any other Canadian? I guarantee you that FN are not getting rich as you are implying.
So you say "You like to mention racism. That is becoming a redundant trump card that is all too often played. Racism is really only a one way street, played by visible minorities against a white skinned majority. IT DOES NOT FLOW THE OTHER WAY..........EVER." Really?...................Really?................. ..Are you kidding me about this? Lets see......Have you ever been told that you cannot vote? Have you ever been told you cannot speak your own language? Have you ever been told that you cannot practice your religion? Have you ever been told that your children cannot live with you? Have you ever been told that it is illegal to practice your culture? I urge you to learn more about YOUR Canadian History before you talk about something you do not completely understand.
I know where the money is going, it's called special interest group.
Every man, woman and child in Canada gets health care under our universal system, regardless of race, color or creed including FN. The same applies for welfare. Why then is there a need for any special application over and above what already exists? Where is the accountability? My honky bigoted white ass wants to know. I cannot see throwing tax $ in that direction in perpetuity, especially now with the SCC ruling. Mark my words, IT JUST CANNOT CONTINUE.
2011-2012 Federal fiscal budget of $52 billion; 35 million people =$1,485 per capita
2011-2012 Federal fiscal budget allocation to AADNA $9 billion; 605,000= $14,876 per capita.
Quite a disparity would you not say. And now since the Metis have been granted status, another 750,000 will be added to the FN ranks for a grand sum of 1.3 FN.
Using the above numbers, we can see the potential for the AADNA budget to balloon to $18 billion using those old numbers. Where is that money going to come from now considering the SCC ruling will stymie the hand that feeds you?
On the other matter. Tell me how we can move forward if you continue to deal in the past? Don't you think it is time to give forgiveness for past transgressions? The past cannot be changed, period.

[edgar11]

I know where the money is going, it's called special interest group.
Every man, woman and child in Canada gets health care under our universal system, regardless of race, color or creed including FN. The same applies for welfare. Why then is there a need for any special application over and above what already exists? Where is the accountability? My honky bigoted white ass wants to know. I cannot see throwing tax $ in that direction in perpetuity, especially now with the SCC ruling. Mark my words, IT JUST CANNOT CONTINUE.
2011-2012 Federal fiscal budget of $52 billion; 35 million people =$1,485 per capita
2011-2012 Federal fiscal budget allocation to AADNA $9 billion; 605,000= $14,876 per capita.
Quite a disparity would you not say. And now since the Metis have been granted status, another 750,000 will be added to the FN ranks for a grand sum of 1.3 FN.
Using the above numbers, we can see the potential for the AADNA budget to balloon to $18 billion using those old numbers. Where is that money going to come from now considering the SCC ruling will stymie the hand that feeds you?
On the other matter. Tell me how we can move forward if you continue to deal in the past? Don't you think it is time to give forgiveness for past transgressions? The past cannot be changed, period.

I am telling you as a FN person, I have no idea where that money is going. Other than the few students that actually utilize the education funding, there have actually been cutbacks in things such as education and healthcare. I think you are confusing how the funding works. A person collecting welfare gets it out of the FN funding and not from the regular welfare office. There is no double dipping so we as a taxpayer, are paying for it regardless of what pot it is coming from. I would like to see what the budget is for welfare, healthcare etc. for everybody else. We probably don't want to know the amount is. Metis do not have the same status as a Status FN person. They may be recognized for some things but they are not equal to a FN person.

[Jelvis]

Jager do you think your way out in left field?, with lots of emotion but wrong on some of the things you typed as far as money management with the Feds and how they dole out and to whom. Did you read the posts above by people who work and know what is pragmatic in this modern business world.
These answers for this question are being decided on and are in a dynamic process to come to a final decision. Not all things have been discussed yet between BC and the Chiefs, they have started and will be continued until a deal can be reached. It's like an iceberg and we all just see the tip of this Aboriginal Title Supreme Court of Canada ruling.
This is a work in process event, no end to it but going to a point.
Jel ( Prognosticator ) Mediator Glad e ater

[Panic]

A simple solution would be to vote for secession....All treaties are with the Crown. Devolve the BC government and all treatises go out the window and everyone shares the same rights in BC. Watch how fast others follow :)

[Jelvis]

No treaties in BC anyway so your plan couldn't work Panic.
BC is all unsettled land claim fodder, treaties are not involved.
BC, Ontario, Quebec and N.S have unsettled land claim grounds (dirt)
Prolly more.
BC has to include the Indians when they work on Crown
BC government still has power of law on the grounds all of BC
So it's a relationship now, like a family at the table. Families have fights and disagreements but they realize no one's leaving the table. Might as well be slow to anger and quick to forgive.
Jel -- In Kamloops ( Deer ) City

[lineofsight]

Based on the preferential treatment - funding, affirmative action / reverse discrimination, education, taxes... you would think that FN would be the 1% in Canada or at least some form of elite whether economic, environmental / sustainability... but what are the statistics for their demographic... obviously some issues that are not being solved by more money, more privilege, more lands...

[Jelvis]

The Indians are having children more than any other Canadian.
Young Indians are being born more .. Canada can't keep it's numbers up without immigration people coming over.
People can't afford children now a daze, many opting out.
Plus Indians a lot are Catholic and can't use any form of contraception something the immigrants religion taught them to believe.
jel -- I have Indians in my family