Girlfriend challenging the PAL and CORE exams tomorrow: one question

[caddisguy]

I've been getting her ready for the CORE and PAL exams, going over the manuals and running her through the mock practical firearms handling tests (ACTS/PROVE, carry / shooting stances, etc) with a variety of firearms. She's good to go and take the exams tomorrow night.

The one question I have is about the "Examine the Bore" part. I did mine so long ago that I don't remember if they want you to put a rod through it or actually look down the business end of the muzzle. I guess it could depend on the examiner. I also forget if they have you dry fire at any point... I think mine did but I suppose that can vary too. I've drilled it into her head about not touching the trigger or trigger guard unless they ask her to.

Any thoughts on the "Examine the Bore" part? I'm just going to suggest that she ask what they want to see for that step.

[dakoda62]

Some examiner's insist you look down the barrel.

[adriaticum]

I would be surprised if anyone wants to use a rod to examine the bore.
Unless there is a rod on the table.
If you can't see the chamber you can stick your finger in there to make sure.
Or if you can see the bore you are good.
If she looks down the muzzle end, she might fail.
Each action is different

[Island Idiots]

I taught CORE in the past.
Doing as bore check with the action open is / was mandatory. If you look down the bore with the action closed, you fail, with it open you are fine.

Checking to ensure the barrel is unobstructed is a safety issue. To this day, I do it, even if road hunting and jumping out to shoot an animal. I also use tape over the muzzle once I have checked the barrel.

[caddisguy]

Good feedback. I just talked to another friend through who tested with an instructor that had them use an imaginary cleaning rod. They definitely want you to make sure that the barrel is clear all the way through... not just the chamber. The CFSC manual and video shows people pointing rifles at their faces... seems to contradict other safety rules, like not pointing a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy.

I just keep a piece of tape or a finger glove on the muzzle and I'll stick a rod through if I think there's a chance something might have gotten in there. I should probably be more vigilant about it. I know it's safe and everything if you did all the other steps first, but I still can't imagine pointing a rifle in my face every time I put down or pick up one of my rifles.

For passing the test, I think the safest thing to do is to ask the instructor if he wants her to use an imaginary rod or visually look down the bore. Definitely action open either way. Thanks!

[mike-juliet]

I currently teach CORE.

P.R.O.V.E. Must be done in the correct order with the bore examination being done either through the muzzle end in the Lever and pump actions, or by removing the bolt on the Bolt action and looking through the breech end. Some instructors may use a cleaning rod, but I'd rather a visual inspection as this allows you to see if you have any damage to the bore besides a blockage that a cleaning rod would push out. Also for obvious reasons the Bore examination must be done last after proving their is no ammunition in chamber or magazine. I try and get my students to not only visually check chamber/magazine but to stick pinky in chamber and push down on magazine as this A) double checks they are not missing anything and B) from across the room its easier for me to see what they are doing while taking the test rather than a quick glance that I might miss.

Most important thing to remember is every time a finger goes on the trigger a point is lost, missed steps while ACTS/PROVE is a mark for each step. If the firearm is pointed at anyone during the test it is an automatic fail.

Good Luck!

[caddisguy]

Thanks Matt! Do you teach out of Langley? We seem to have quite a few instructors out that way.

I think she'll do pretty well on the tests. When I quiz her on the CORE+Synopsis/CFSC stuff she's pretty close to 100% without the novelty of multiple choice. And for the practical, she's been shooting and coming along on hunting trips with me at least a dozen times over the last year. Other than letting her get scope kissed once and perhaps being lax about bore examination, I think I've been a fairly good mentor. Barring any mistakes if nerves get the better of her, we'll have a new member in our community.

Best of all for my selfish needs, now she will be allowed to carry an extra rifle around for me while we're hunting. Seeing deer while carrying a 22 or grouse with the 30-06 has always been bothersome.

Hopefully I'll be able to follow up with the good news on this thread tomorrow by late evening.

[LupieHunter]

Our examiners had us act out running a rod down the bore.

[LupieHunter]

And as far as dry fires, we didn't do that.

[mike-juliet]

I am located in Langley, however I teach in Cloverdale for Firearm Training Center(Kent Archibald) I do a small amount of challenges on my own, usually word of mouth passed around through friends. Anyone who inquires about taking the course I send Kent's way as I teach most of his CORE Courses for him.

[nature girl]

I think the more you quiz your girlfriend the more nervous she may get. Ask if she wants you to quiz her more or if she thinks she is good. And if she is good then leave it at that.

[john.b]

When I did mine in december you had to look down the bore from the muzzle

[albravo2]

great feedback on here. nice to hear from current and former examiners.

wish your girlfriend the best of luck!

[r106]

Yup nothing wrong with looking down the bore if the action is open. Make sure you tell her to take her time and read the Questions and answers carefully as there was a couple on mine that were trick because of the way the worded them

[hoochie]

not to derail the thread, but it got me to thinking.
I did my challenge in 98 when this all came about, and for $50 laid on the table, I don't think I could tell you with 100% certainty what ACTS stands for.
AIM...?
Control the muzzle
Trigger control
Sight picture
??
PROVE made more sense, something about ACTS I thought was odd, probably why I cant remember what its supposed to mean.

[r106]

It's been several years so lets see if I remember

A - assume the firearm is loaded
C - control muzzle direstion
T - trigger finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard
S - see that it's un loaded and prove it safe

P - point muzzle in safe direction
R - remove ammo
O - observe the chamber
V - verify the feeding path
E - examine the bore

Am I close?. lol

[caddisguy]

Yup nothing wrong with looking down the bore if the action is open. Make sure you tell her to take her time and read the Questions and answers carefully as there was a couple on mine that were trick because of the way the worded them

I vaguely recall some that seemed like trick questions as well. Maybe mixing in double negatives or something? Idea behind it is probably two-fold... understanding of the language and attention to detail. Of course that is in addition to having the correct answer.

Oh and you're right on about all the ACTS and PROVE definitions. Even though I do it all the time, I forgot what each letter stands for, but had to re-learn the exact definitions to help with the tutoring. I guess we'll find out tonight whether I'm a good teacher or a crappy one.

[mike-juliet]

Let us know how it goes! Just out of curiosity, who is she challenging through?

[caddisguy]

I think the more you quiz your girlfriend the more nervous she may get. Ask if she wants you to quiz her more or if she thinks she is good. And if she is good then leave it at that.

No worries there. All tutoring, including question period and mock practical firearm handling tests have been consensual ;-P

[caddisguy]

No worries there. All tutoring, including question period and mock practical firearm handling tests have been consensual ;-P

She's going through Glen and Marlene over in Langley. I did my PAL exam with them about 10 years ago and then came back and did the CORE with them a year ago.

[Phoneguy]

I also teach the PAL and the CORE. Just remember, when doing a barrel examination you are not looking for bullets or cartridges. They should already be out of the firearm, right?

[HarryToolips]

Once you've checked the chamber and verified the feeding path that no other rounds are going to come into the chamber, you look down the barrel, once all the other steps are done..

[caddisguy]

Turns out I'm an ok teacher or she's a good student. She passed both the PAL and the core. Now once she gets the cert, hunter number and license, she'll be able to pack extra rifles around for me... incase I get a misfire on a bear again or see grouse with only the 06 :D

[caddisguy]

Oh and regarding the "examine the bore" part, I don't want to give away info about which instructor does what, but for anyone taking these tests, I do think the best approach is to just ask what method they prefer. Thanks for to everyone who weighed into this thread and to all the instructors out there who provide a good service for the hunting/firearms community.

[hoochie]

Once a firearm has been proven safe, there should be no issue in looking down the bore from the muzzle or the breach end. The purpose of checking the barrel is to look for obstructions and or other damage that may indicate the firearm may need cleaning, or in a worse case scenario the firearm may be unsafe to shoot. A visual inspection of a barrel may allow a person to see a bulge, and or other damage that other methods; (such as passing a rod down the barrel) would have no way of indicating an unsafe condition to the person doing the "PROVE"
The condition of the barrel is also an important factor in the value of a firearm. If a person was to simply pass a rod down the barrel, they would have no means to ensure the rifling is good, and that the barrel isn't shot out.
Looking down the barrel of an unloaded firearm is not dangerous. An instructor who says that it is; is creating fear where they need not be any.

[caddisguy]

Very good points all around hoochie. For the record, I haven't heard of any instructors suggesting that the visual bore exam is unsafe, but I have heard of some who test using other methods. Check out the Silvercore PROVE videos on YouTube for example.

My barrels would typically only get a visual inspection before and after trips during cleaning. In most cases, in field I have mostly just used the rod method, but as you mention using the visual method has major advantages in detecting damage whereas running a patch through will just tell you that the bore probably all clear. I've certainly warmed up to the idea of visual.

[adriaticum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVoxUgF7VbU

[caddisguy]

Is that for real? Hangfire? Difficult to grasp what a visual inspection of the bore before checking everything else--or anything else for that matter--was supposed to accomplish. Yikes if that's real.

[hoochie]

This is exactly why some people shouldn't have guns. That is not how you check a gun. why the hell would you rack a round after a misfire, then look in the barrel after the 2nd misfire?
Way to go there Mr. HunterOrange ;)[

QUOTE=adriaticum;1514010]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVoxUgF7VbU[/QUOTE]

[adriaticum]

Is that for real? Hangfire? Difficult to grasp what a visual inspection of the bore before checking everything else--or anything else for that matter--was supposed to accomplish. Yikes if that's real.

Yes it's real. Some habits are hard to break.
Before looking down the muzzle end your gun better be in a vice.
This guy was exceptionally untrained.

You can do it, just don't make it a habit.

[albravo2]

Hey! Great news for your girlfriend. Congratulations are in order for both of you. Happy trails!

[Singleshotneeded]

I opened the action and looked in from the breech on bolt actions and from the muzzle of others...seems to be the approved method.
Make sure you stress to her to always keep the muzzle pointed in the safe direction the examiner tells her...good luck!
I was a bit late...congrats to your girlfriend! :-D

[eaglesnester]

My examiner wanted me to look down the barrel to check for obstructions. Before I stuck my eyeball to the muzzle, I proved the weapon safe by removing the bolt, sticking my finger into the chamber, and ensuring the magazine box was empty.

[JR.HunterEXtreme]

good luck to her, hope she does well!

[Rhyla]

When I took the course and did my test, I looked down the barrel with my thumb blocking the action. Never had us dry fire.

[brian]

The one question I have is about the "Examine the Bore" part. I did mine so long ago that I don't remember if they want you to put a rod through it or actually look down the business end of the muzzle. I guess it could depend on the examiner. I also forget if they have you dry fire at any point... I think mine did but I suppose that can vary too. I've drilled it into her head about not touching the trigger or trigger guard unless they ask her to.

I remember doing my training with Silvercore and they were very anti looking down the bore. Their rational at the time was that it just a bad habit to get into. To this day I can have a fully disassembled rifle and I am still nervous looking down the bore from the muzzle end.


My examiner wanted me to look down the barrel to check for obstructions. Before I stuck my eyeball to the muzzle, I proved the weapon safe by removing the bolt, sticking my finger into the chamber, and ensuring the magazine box was empty.
Couldn't you simply examine the bore from the breech end if you could remove the bolt easily?

[mike-juliet]

I remember doing my training with Silvercore and they were very anti looking down the bore. Their rational at the time was that it just a bad habit to get into. To this day I can have a fully disassembled rifle and I am still nervous looking down the bore from the muzzle end.


Couldn't you simply examine the bore from the breech end if you could remove the bolt easily?

With a bolt action sure, and that is an option I personally give students. However, try looking from chamber to muzzle on a lever action rifle.

[Singleshotneeded]

And that's yet another reason to buy a bolt action...they're reliable, strong, accurate, and easy to clean and inspect! :-)

[ajr5406]

Just to clarify on the PAL course - is the the manual the Non Restricted course (and exam) is based on?

http://www.gov.pe.ca/photos/original/CFSCmanualVer2.pdf

[caddisguy]

Just to clarify on the PAL course - is the the manual the Non Restricted course (and exam) is based on?

http://www.gov.pe.ca/photos/original/CFSCmanualVer2.pdf

I had a hard copy from the BCWF but that sure looks like a PDF of the same literature :)

[brian]

With a bolt action sure, and that is an option I personally give students. However, try looking from chamber to muzzle on a lever action rifle.

Of course... but the poster said he removed the bolt, which implied it was very easy to remove the bolt from which I deduced he was handling a bolt action. Removing the bolt from a lever, pump, or or semi auto usually involves stripping down the firearm and is a much more involved process than is normally tested on your average PAL exam. Which is why I asked my question.

[hoochie]

I remember doing my training with Silvercore and they were very anti looking down the bore. Their rational at the time was that it just a bad habit to get into. To this day I can have a fully disassembled rifle and I am still nervous looking down the bore from the muzzle end.


Couldn't you simply examine the bore from the breech end if you could remove the bolt easily?

There are devices; I call them bore lights. You open the bolt and stick it in the chamber end of the gun. it will send light up the bore so you can examine it well. I have an adaptation on a small pocket sized mag light, and there are other ones we have in the house that are some kind of plastic that work by gathering daylight etc. Looking down the bore is something that should be taught. when a gun is unloaded it is nothing more than assembled steel/plastic parts. Its much easier to look down the illuminated bore from the muzzle end than it would be to look from the chamber end.. you'd be waiving it around trying to find enough light to see properly.

as long as there are people on this earth, there will be mistakes. I could see that Silvercore wouldn't want to instruct people to look down the bore; as it would only take one incident of a student having an accident and their instruction to look down the bore would land them in a court room.
They are playing it safe to cover their ass. Its a smart move on their part. It doesn't mean that looking down the bore of an unloaded firearm is unsafe, its more that they don't want to be the ones to tell you its safe in the event of an accident...follow me?