Thoughts for first rifle: Savage Arms XP or 11/111 Trophy Hunter XP?

[PUNCHA_YO_BUNS]

Hi all!

So I've already completed my PAL and will be taking my 2-day PAL course this weekend. With no prior hunting experience, I'll be looking into purchasing my first firearm. As I live in the lower mainland, I forsee that my first forays will probably be single or two-day trips primarily going for small game such as mule and black tailed deer. I'm hoping to spend around or under $500, and the few stores I've visited in the lower mainland have both recommended either the Savage Arms Axs XP or 11/111 in .380 or .270 to give me more options and capacity to hunt larger game down the road. What are the community's thoughts on this? Which caliber would be the most cost effective just for range target practice?

Thanks in advance for your input!

[Poguebilt]

I like the 30 cal.
308 or 30-06

[PUNCHA_YO_BUNS]

Hi Poguebilt.

Could you please explain why? Thanks!

[Mulehahn]

The savages are a good package for the price. Accurate, reasonably tough, and are a comfortable fit for most people. Are you looking at the axis (350ish) or the axis II (450ish). For the $100 more the axis II comes with a much better scope and the accutrigger. I think it is definitely worth it. The 11/111(550ish) is about $100 more than that, and I am not sure it is worth it. To me the only real advantage the 11/111 has over the axis line is that is more upgradable down the road, change the stock, use the action for a build, etc. What are you plans for it? Personally, I would buy the Axis II, and take the $100 price difference over the 11/111 and put it towards Binos.

As for caliber I prefer the 30 cals, I just think they are more versatile. Shooting a 150 gr you don't give up much in terms of trajectory to a 270, but you have the option to a lot heavier bullets, and as such a lot more energy. But it does come with an increase in recoil. Depending on your size, and comfort level, there is not too much in BC a 270 won't kill effectively. If I was looking for a first rifle, that would later be downgraded to back up I would buy a Savage Axis II in 30-06, shooting 165/168gr bullets.

[longstonec]

savage in 6.5mm creedmoor. *best but ammo is a little harder to find

something in 270 *medium

something in 30-06 *everybody knows its pretty much the greatest after the 6.5creedmoor

[hoochie]

from what I have heard, is that the savage axis is one of the most "returned for warranty" firearms out there. I would suggest a quality used firearm over a new axis.

[Fella]

I have an older 111 in .30-06. It's a great gun, although if you don't buy an accutrigger model you'll probably want to get the trigger adjusted and eventually you'll want a new scope and rings as the ones that come with the package aren't the best. As for calibre, I like the .06. The recoil isn't as bad as some people say it is, ammo is plentiful, there's a good range of bullet weight and let's not forget it's been killing animals in bc for 100 years.

[john.b]

I would get a 30.06. Also, coming from someone who did the same thing, save up and buy a good rifle to start with. You will thank youeself later.

[caddisguy]

I have the Savage Axis XP in 30-06. It is a fairly light rifle and seems to take a lot of abuse. It's easy to take apart for cleaning.

Seems accurate, though I've never tried beyond 200 yards. That said, if you're hunting blacktail or anywhere in the fraser valley, you will likely never have to think about shooting further than 200 yards.

The stock trigger pull is fairly hefty. From what I understand, removing 1 to 1.5 coils off the spring gets it down to 3.5 lbs.

After a few hundred rounds through it, a lot of abuse and some misfortune, the only issue I have ever had was one single untimely misfire. However, after stripping down the bolt, thoroughly inspecting the action and comparing primer strike on spent rounds versus the misfired cartridge, I'm 99.9% certain that it was a bad round.

[604redneck]

I would also look for a good quality used firearm weatherby vanguard rem 783 either of those with a scope like a Nikon buck master or vortex diamondback. Might have to save an extra $200 over the axis but u will be a lot happier as for cal 30-06

[adriaticum]

30-06 is a good all around caliber you can shoot anything with. Also .270, .308 .300Winmag .
I would never go for an exotic caliber that is tough to find bullets for.
Don't over complicate. This rifle is most likely not going to be your only rifle.

[Elkhound]

my wife has the trophy hunter in 7mm-08 loves it. Accutrigger is really nice as well. The weaver scope that comes with it isnt too shabby until you decide or can afford better glass on top

[albravo2]

Make sure you leave enough in your budget for a .22 with lots of ammo. If you learn to shoot with a .270 or 30-06 you are quite likely to develop a good flinch.

[Moe.JKU]

The savage package guns are a good place to start, i ended up with the savage 16/116 as i wanted s/s barrel. I opted for a 30-06 as i was going to be hunting moose and bigger game. If i was going to stick with deer, i would have got a .243, or .270 as it seemed to be a better gun to learn to shoot on with flinch issues etc.

However I have not had a problem with my 30-06 and i'm not a big guy. One thing i would recomend is tossing the stock butt pad out and replacing it with a limb saver right away. The ones that come with it are garbage.

Try shooting some of the calibers you are looking at and see what you like. If i'm free i could come out for a shoot i need to sight mine in again for practicing over summer.

[PUNCHA_YO_BUNS]

Thank you everyone for your advice!

I don't intend on upgrading this first rifle for the forseeable future. I'm noticing a trend and definitely leaning towards the Trophy Hunter 11/111 as a sounder long-term investment.

My background with firearms and marksmanship started with two years doing Winter Biathlon firing .22 single-shot Anschutzs, and another two years with the CF Primary Reserves firing 5.56X45 on the C7A2. I'm assuming that I should be experiencing a much stronger recoil with the 30-06 or .308? Also, could someone please explain to me the differences in the performance and intended use for the 30-06 and the .308?

[Fella]

You can use both .308 and .06 for pretty much anything in BC. As for recoil, I don't think it's as bad as people are telling you. As long as you have the gun shouldered correctly you'll be fine.

[moosinaround]

I have a 111 in 270win. Is my best shooter! cover the 100yrd group with a quarter, and give ya 5 cents change! Moosin

[caddisguy]

The recoil isn't too bad. Expect a sharp snappy kick with a light rifle, but don't worry about it. I have a Dominion Compact 12ga... tiny thing which a plastic stock. 30 rounds and I'll a bit tender the next day. I knew the 30-06 shouldn't be as bad... only thing surprised me was that the 06 recoil from my Savage Axis was "different". It was sharp and snappy, but I think that can be attributed to the rifle being slighly less heavy. I'll admit I flinched for a few rounds but once you are used to it and know what to expect, it feels normal and like any other pea shooter you don't think about it or notice.

I'm a whopping 145lbs and it doesn't phase me at all. I just have trouble keeping line of sight and focus through the scope between shots. It moves enough that I lose my target. I'm quick to get it back though. Just have realistic expectations. It will recoil, but it won't hurt or knock you over. If you think you won't feel it, then it will feel like you got hit by a truck. Whether it's 12ga, 06, or 45ACP it might be uncomortable if it's different than the expectations. Don't let the recoil phase you. Let the gun break you in. It will be second nature real quick.

[caddisguy]

Just had an idea that will probably speed up getting used to a new load for anyone worried about it or has friends new to shooting. Test with a dummy round or dry fire a couple times to get used to the trigger pull. Then take that first shot in a gravel pit with a ridiculously huge backstop. Don't look through the scope or worry about aiming or hitting a specific target... just your massive backstop.

Now they know exactly what to expect, rather than being surprised while concentrating on the sight through the crosshairs, gently squeezing the trigger and imagining the payload sailing through the air, like a delicate flower in a carebears cartoon. Once the expectation is set, then go ahead and start shooting / sighting it in for real.

[325]

I would get a 7mm-08 for a first rifle...in fact, I may get one now!

[justachip]

The bottom line is any of the above listed rifles will knock down the game you have described,Just dont be talked into a bigger and bigger gun for no reason.Recoil affects eveyone differently and flinches are very hard to get rid of.You want to be able to go out and shoot for fun and shoot lots so you know you guns balistics inside and out.It has been said many times beware of the man who has one gun because he can probably shoot it.
Good Luck and have fun

[drgame]

Just bought my daughter the Axis II this spring. She is 10 and it is an awesome gun. Got it in 243. Highly recommend this gun to anyone

[Philcott]

I'm assuming that I should be experiencing a much stronger recoil with the 30-06 or .308? Also, could someone please explain to me the differences in the performance and intended use for the 30-06 and the .308?

There will be more recoil but not like kick you on your butt recoil and if you put on, or the rifle already has, a recoil pad it's not really a big issue.

The differences in the performance and intended use for the 30-06 and the .308 are that the '06 will do all the .308 will and a bit more in reaching out a bit farther and hitting with a bit more umph. In exchange for this umph you'll get a bit more recoil. You have to decide if recoil will be an issue for you. You've already done some shooting so know enough to make a decision. If you're small in stature maybe go with the .308 if a bigger boy go with gusto and get a 30-06. You'll get along with it just fine.

I went with a .308 when I bought my first rifle and have hunted with it for more than 30 years. I saved up and bought a remington M700 and it has served me flawlessly all this time and have never been under gunned for what I hunted. Would I do it the same way again. No, I would have bought the 30-06.

[325]

A 308 will kill anything just as dead as a 30-06, and will burn less powder doing it. If recoil is an issue, go with the 308. In fact, even if recoil is not an issue go with the 308.

[Brno22F]

if you want a new rifle, you have already received lots of good advice in the posts preceding this one.
If you are on a budget and dont mind using a quality built Mauser action rifle with traditional wood/blued metal, then check out the selection available in the following link. Lots of european calibers here but also 308 and 30-06. You wont go wrong with a Husqvarna in 30-06 , 8x57 or 6.5x55. Ammo is easily available for all of these.
Once the link opens, click on products and then on Hunting and Sporting arms from the drop down menu.

http://www.tradeexcanada.com/

[Singleshotneeded]

I'd get the Axis 2 with Accutrigger and other improvements...a good trigger makes accurate shooting easier to learn. If you're almost exclusively going to hunt deer with it, but might go north for moose in future, I'd get the .308. It handles light deer bullets (150 grain) a bit better than the 30.06, has less recoil, and still does fine with readily available 165/168 (a bit better for elk/moose) grain bullets. I'd see if your rifle prefers Nosler Accubonds or Barnes TTSX ammo best, and go with the ammo it prefers.
The Ruger American is about to hit Canada in stainless...both in standard and compact versions...another good inexpensive option, and I prefer the feel of the Ruger's bolt to that of the Savage.

[Edzzed]

I bought the Savage Axis XP .270 last month. It is not the Axis II, I could have waited but found out the Boyds stock I wanted wasn't going to fit the Axis II. I heard it's a trigger problem and don't know why that is. Guy is selling a trigger upgrade he bought due to that. I plan on doing the spring mod. You tube has vids on it. The scope that comes with the Axis XP is junk and I knew that when I paid 342.74 as my out the door all in price. I upgraded to a Boyds stock which is as good or better than the Accustock Savage sells. I also took the scope and put it on a .22 as you tube has vids on a guy wrecking the scope in 15 shots with a 30-06. You tube search for bushnell sharp shooter. I spent 170 for a Bushnell Trophy in 4-12x40 which is a little better for quality. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/edzzed/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/CAM00813.jpg

[fyffer]

Just picked up a 2506. Will be using it on deer. Black bear. Or anything shooting 100gr ttsx at 3300 fps. Low recoil super accurate.

[Singleshotneeded]

The .308 is a solid caliber, it works well on all the antlered critters in B.C...cost of ammo is low and the recoil is light, plus you can use 150 grain bullets for deer and switch to heavier bullets for elk and moose down the road. Though it's just a 2 ft. lbs. difference in recoil between the .308 and 30.06, some folks are happier shooting a couple of boxes of .308 at the range instead of the '06. I'll admit I notice the difference between my 140 grain .270's 17 ft.-lbs. and my 168 grain 30.06's 20 ft.-lbs., and I'd rather shoot the .270 all day. Your first rifle should be one that you enjoy shooting all day...maybe even take a look at the 7mm-08, the necked down .308. At 12.6 ft.-lbs., it's a pussy cat to shoot, encouraging you to practice more, but can still readily handle moose and elk out to 300 yards. I'd look at the Ruger American, the Savage Axis 2, and the Weatherby Vanguard 2 in new rifles. If you spot a Husqvarna in good condition, that would be a good used buy...they're Swedish Mausers and my 1956 Husky in 30.06 shoots .4" groups at 100 yards...excellent accuracy from excellent barrels made from very good Swedish steel. The Vanguard 2 is probably the best of the budget rifles, but if you like the way the Ruger American feels but hate the plastic stock, Boyd's is making $100 customizable laminate stocks for it starting in August. It's also soon to be available in Canada in stainless steel as well... The Husqvarna is commonly found in .270, .308, and 30.06.

[KBC]

The .308 is a solid caliber, it works well on all the antlered critters in B.C...cost of ammo is low and the recoil is light, plus you can use 150 grain bullets for deer and switch to heavier bullets for elk and moose down the road. Though it's just a 2 ft. lbs. difference in recoil between the .308 and 30.06, some folks are happier shooting a couple of boxes of .308 at the range instead of the '06. I'll admit I notice the difference between my 140 grain .270's 17 ft.-lbs. and my 168 grain 30.06's 20 ft.-lbs., and I'd rather shoot the .270 all day. Your first rifle should be one that you enjoy shooting all day...maybe even take a look at the 7mm-08, the necked down .308. At 12.6 ft.-lbs., it's a pussy cat to shoot, encouraging you to practice more, but can still readily handle moose and elk out to 300 yards. I'd look at the Ruger American, the Savage Axis 2, and the Weatherby Vanguard 2 in new rifles. If you spot a Husqvarna in good condition, that would be a good used buy...they're Swedish Mausers and my 1956 Husky in 30.06 shoots .4" groups at 100 yards...excellent accuracy from excellent barrels made from very good Swedish steel. The Vanguard 2 is probably the best of the budget rifles, but if you like the way the Ruger American feels but hate the plastic stock, Boyd's is making $100 customizable laminate stocks for it starting in August. It's also soon to be available in Canada in stainless steel as well... The Husqvarna is commonly found in .270, .308, and 30.06.
Thanks for this post, I've been going back and forth on getting a new savage or weatherby or an old husky in 30.06 like my Grandpa used and you sold me on the husky. Now to pick a scope...

[Zedbra]

Just had an idea that will probably speed up getting used to a new load for anyone worried about it or has friends new to shooting. Test with a dummy round or dry fire a couple times to get used to the trigger pull. Then take that first shot in a gravel pit with a ridiculously huge backstop. Don't look through the scope or worry about aiming or hitting a specific target... just your massive backstop.

Now they know exactly what to expect, rather than being surprised while concentrating on the sight through the crosshairs, gently squeezing the trigger and imagining the payload sailing through the air, like a delicate flower in a carebears cartoon. Once the expectation is set, then go ahead and start shooting / sighting it in for real.


I did this for the first few rounds when I got my 7mm REM MAG and I'm glad I did. Now that I know what that cannon offers, I know I only have to be close to count. ;)

To the OP - you've had a lot of good advice already. If you are going larger than deer and don't want to upgrade later (but you will, you wait), then look at the 30.06 or .308