I'm cursed. Ammo failure when it counts.

[caddisguy]

Left on Saturday for the weekend to take a second crack at Spring bear hunting with my girlfriend. Though I'm a new hunter as of Fall 2013 and I have never taken a big game animal, I've spent 25+ weekends in the bush every year for the last 15 years. I've never had a problem finding bears when I'm not looking, so I knew that when I am looking it would be a gimme. Sure enough after making my rounds on Saturday morning, I had it narrowed down to two lucky candidates in spots not too far apart from each other.

Option 1)

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t644/vaporeyes/P1010085_zps4c28b4d4.jpg


Fresh pile of scat, but it seemed fairly small so we decided to continue on to our next spot. After we got walked back to the Jeep, I noticed this print on one of my windows. Not great with tracks on dusty plastic windows, but perhaps while we were looking at his poop, he was checking out the Jeep.

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t644/vaporeyes/P1010058_zps472e08d5.jpg



We moved onto the next place where we were onto a big bear last weekend. Maybe we would get lucky catch it in the open rather than in the thick stuff. Didn't see / hear anything this time... but it left us a message. It read as follows:

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t644/vaporeyes/P1010064_zps79b1881e.jpg

Thanks Mr Bear. Right back at ya. Decided to take the hint. This one is a monster and probably more than a freezer full, but the terrain is so thick that even if I was lucky enough to catch it in the open, I wouldn't be confident about whether not there are cubs around... or if I shot it and it got back into the thick and nasty even 30 yards it could be a nightmare. Time to revisit Option #1, but first a little break to check out some deers and remove a tick from my arm.



http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t644/vaporeyes/P1010047_zpsc978cbd6.jpg

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t644/vaporeyes/P1010081_zpsbbad2c39.jpg


On the way in, we disturbed a grouse which retreated into the thick. We could hear all the commotion and crying from the cheepers. Suddenly, we could hear something crashing through the bush about to come out. My girlfriend has the safety off the bear spray and means business. And then... it came out.. one pissed off grouse charged her... feathers puffed out, running around in circles screaming and hissing. It was quite a stand off, but ended peacefully. Nobody was injured.

Anyway, back to Option #1. Decided that since we were carrying very little human or unnatural scent with wind in our favor that we would take position in middle of a very small meadow close to where we found the most recent sign. With lots of trails and out of the meadow, cammo head to toe, we sat on the stump pretty much back to back to cover 360 degrees and not have to worry about getting surprised. Sure enough after about 15 minutes, she gives me the signal that a black bear is approaching.

As it entered the clearing, I was sizing it up. It looked very young.... narrow face, pointy ears pretty close together. I lowered the rifle momentarily and was going for the camera. However, after fully entering the clearing, it was apparent that regardless of how young, this was a fairly decent bear by my standards. Guessing 2-3 years old, but still around 250 lbs. I decided that this one was big enough and would be good eating. I wanted it in my freezer.

I put the rifle back on it and dailed down my scope, since now it was about 7 yards away, standing broadside and no idea we are there. I lined up a double lung shot and squeezed the trigger. CLICK. What the heck? Never had a misfire or hangfire on this rifle ever. Had even checked that it was still sighted in and shooting good the same morning.The bear jumped back to the edge of the clearing and paused. I wasn't about to eject the round right away incase it was a hang-fire (though I've shot tens of thousands of rounds and never experienced a hangfire... just a few misfires on the 10/22 and G17) ... besides, I'm not going to shoot it in the ass anyway. After a few seconds of contimplating, he booked it.

[caddisguy]

That's a picture from this morning, right before I put the round back into my rifle and aimed it at my target 100 yards away. BOOM. Fired just fine and dead on target. That is one lucky bear and one unlucky caddisguy. Bonus picture of another deer and suspected paw print as well.

Does anyone have any stories about getting screwed like this? It would make me feel much better. Thanks in advance!

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t644/vaporeyes/P1010114_zps844853b5.jpg

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t644/vaporeyes/P1010036_zpsf6949e95.jpg

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t644/vaporeyes/P1010052_zps9693daab.jpg

[VancouverSkiBum]

That sucks. Was there a light primer strike on the primer? One lucky bear.

ahh you beat me to it with the pics.

[caddisguy]

Yep... I just don't understand. What are the odds? It was like some kind of uncanny intervention from a higher power that didn't want me to have that bear. Had a great time and all, but can't help feeling like I was robbed.

[NMO]

Rough, could be the ammo, but I would run a few kinds through the rifle to make sure it is not a firing pin issue. I had a sxs shotgun that worked flawlessly until one day.. it decided to light primer strike everything (literally every round) with the right firing pin. Ended up fixing it with my leatherman later on, but it is something to consider. Always nice to observe animals up close, even if they don't make the guestlist for the freezer.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Don't beat yourself up about it. It's like an E in baseball. It's over. On to the next time. You'll do better. Maybe a thread about personal screwups/misfortune is in order. My moose one was a doozy.

[caddisguy]

Rough, could be the ammo, but I would run a few kinds through the rifle to make sure it is not a firing pin issue. I had a sxs shotgun that worked flawlessly until one day.. it decided to light primer strike everything (literally every round) with the right firing pin. Ended up fixing it with my leatherman later on, but it is something to consider. Always nice to observe animals up close, even if they don't make the guestlist for the freezer.

I shot 10 rounds in a gravel pit on my way out this morning. It seems fine, but I'll definitely have to put some more through it to be certain... but yeah it was good to see so many animals in one day. I've had a few close bear encounter while flyfishing--I think my cheap fly reel calls them in because it sounds like a messed up duck--but this was the first time I was able to initiate an encounter by tracking one down and putting myself in a place where I knew it would show... and to watch a bear up close when it doesn't know you are there is way more cool than the ones come to you because they are curious. It was also my girlfriends first time having a bear close up. Success all around, minus the meat and added psychological victory that would come with closing the deal.

We also saw 5 deer, half dozen grouse, a rubber boa snake and a few snowshoe hare. I also had my first Region 2 tick with his head in my arm.

One thing I was wondering about bear behavior... maybe someone can answer. When the bear got spooked after the misfire, we waited to see if he would come back. No dice. I went back this morning to check and didn't see any new sign. It's pretty clear that he had been hanging around there for a week or so, but I guess we spooked him pretty bad and he didn't return. I'm sure it depends on the bear and situation, but in general, if you spook a bear out of a place he likes to frequent, what were the odds of him returning shortly after... say an hour later... day later... week later... never?

[caddisguy]

Don't beat yourself up about it. It's like an E in baseball. It's over. On to the next time. You'll do better. Maybe a thread about personal screwups/misfortune is in order. My moose one was a doozy.

That would be awesome. Got a link to a thread or want to share it here? I would very much like to hear some screw-ups and misfortunes.

[albravo2]

Bad news: that sucks.
Good news: great story.

I think if you have a misfire you get to go back next weekend and try again even though the season is over for the rest of us. Sort of a gimme. Tell the CO that someone on the internet told you it would be OK;-)

[landphil]

That bites, but for sure, its part of the game. I have a feeling you'll move away from what I'm assuming is factory winchester ammo for your hunting ammo.

I will say though, you probably would have been a bit disappointed with the bear's size if you had been successful - they have a way of looking much larger until they stop moving.

[Fred1]

Ya get the firing pin checked. Only ever seen hand loads misfire. The odd time, one of my clients will get one? - usually one he loaded. (theres your moose... ok, let him have it! CLICK!! OMG... really!? 0_o ) I have never had "one off the shelf" misfire. However two years ago my buddy put four .270 rounds into an elk broad side at 150 yards and not one bullet made it thru the ribs? The left side was bruised to shit and ribs cracked. It was Remington ammo, same bullets he has fired for 25 years. Bad powder load from the factory?! The 240grain 338 helper did what it was supposed too. Now an arrow misfiring... ya still haunting me... ;) Shit happens, don't sweat it!

[caddisguy]

Bad news: that sucks.
Good news: great story.

I think if you have a misfire you get to go back next weekend and try again even though the season is over for the rest of us. Sort of a gimme. Tell the CO that someone on the internet told you it would be OK;-)

I do deserve some kind of season extension. I'll call the CO office or the RAPP line and run it by them ;-P

I didn't think I would get so obsessed with spring bear hunting. I just thought I'd go out once because it would be fun to get some hunting in to tide me over until fall and maybe have some meat to show for it. Once turned into twice and now after what happened I wish I had devoted more time to it... taken days off work for extended trips and all that stuff.

Failing permission from the CO keep hunting even though the season is over, I suppose I will occupy myself with fishing and marking days off on the calender from now until September.

[Brno22F]

I shot 10 rounds in a gravel pit on my way out this morning. It seems fine, but I'll definitely have to put some more through it to be certain... ?

Just a thought... Did you do it exactly the same way? If you slowly eased the safety off before attempting to shoot the bear, did you do that again when you test fired the 10 rounds in the pit?

It may have no bearing on the situation but if a light primer strike occurred, it makes me wonder if something interfered with the forward motion of the firing pin just enough to cause your problem.

[Gateholio]

What rifle are you using?

[caddisguy]

That bites, but for sure, its part of the game. I have a feeling you'll move away from what I'm assuming is factory winchester ammo for your hunting ammo.

I will say though, you probably would have been a bit disappointed with the bear's size if you had been successful - they have a way of looking much larger until they stop moving.

Factory Winchester Super X "Power Point" 150gr 30-06.

You might be right about the size of the bear. It looked big both still and moving, but I wonder how much is left once the fur, bone and fat are gone. Guessing a 200-250lbs bear turns to 80 lbs pretty quick.

[caddisguy]

Just a thought... Did you do it exactly the same way? If you slowly eased the safety off before attempting to shoot the bear, did you do that again when you test fired the 10 rounds in the pit?

It may have no bearing on the situation but if a light primer strike occurred, it makes me wonder if something interfered with the forward motion of the firing pin just enough to cause your problem.

You might be onto something. I moved the safety forward with more downward pressure than usual in effort to keep it quiet. I was thinking about other various ways I could have botched it, like not turning the bolt all the way. I think I would have noticed that though. Definitely worth investigating more since we sometimes do things differently in the field than we do while target shooting.

[caddisguy]

What rifle are you using?

It was a Savage Axis XP 30-06 with a couple hundred rounds through it. I'd say "guess I got what I paid for" but it could have been the ammo, could have been me or some other environmental factor. Seemed reliable otherwise.

[Rhyno]

Factory Winchester Super X "Power Point" 150gr 30-06.

You might be right about the size of the bear. It looked big both still and moving, but I wonder how much is left once the fur, bone and fat are gone. Guessing a 200-250lbs bear turns to 80 lbs pretty quick.

Trust me, take a 250lb bear, minus some extreme ground shrinkage and it turns into 30 lb of meat pretty quick :oops:

Good luck getting your first animal this fall. Sounds like you are hooked on bears now, dedicate a little more time next spring and you will get yourself one!

[caddisguy]

Trust me, take a 250lb bear, minus some extreme ground shrinkage and it turns into 30 lb of meat pretty quick :oops:

Good luck getting your first animal this fall. Sounds like you are hooked on bears now, dedicate a little more time next spring and you will get yourself one!

Thanks! Hoping for more than grouse this year. Are fall bears any good? I usually see them around in September... though nowhere near as many as the Spring. If I see one this year while deer/grouse hunting, is it worthwhile? (ie: are they still meat-worthy?) ... I'll definitely put in the time next Spring though.

[landphil]

Its a bit hard to tell from the photo you posted, but the primer strike on the round in question looks decently deep - which steers the issue away from being the rifles fault, and more toward a faulty primer or an improperly seated primer. Since you saw the primer indent in person and not a slightly blurry photo, you'll be a better judge of that. If in doubt, the bolts are pretty easily disassembled on the Savage axis, so you could check out the firing pin and spring with very little effort and ensure its not packed with dirt or grease.

Definitely pursue a fall bear, they taste just fine, though a bit harder to locate than spring bears as you've noted. Sows do let cubs wander a bit further away though, so a bit extra care is needed. Good luck!

[two-feet]

I think your first few years of serious hunting will see more screw-ups than success, I have certainly had my share. But any time you are out seeing plenty of game is a victory. My very favorite fishing stories to tell are of "the one that got away" variety and hunting is no different. Screwing up a shot when you are leaned over the hood of your truck is one thing but not getting the finish while stalking an animal in its own environment is really the sporting part of hunting that we all love.
Get a fall bear, they taste great and are nicely marbled. Good luck out there!

[E.V.B.H.]

It isn't over yet! You just have to take a little road trip to the east. We are open till the 30th here. It's a ten hr drive or so but you can't put a price on redemption...

[sakohunter]

I would second stripping down your bolt and do a through inspection, cleaning and lubricating. I sucks that a gear malfunction causes a missed animal. You will get another chance. Hope it works out

[landphil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQxwGI8ELPA

A pretty good video on disassembly/reassembly of the bolt if you decide to go that route. Keep all parts free of oil and grease except for very light lubrication on the cocking ramp. If you have a Dremel, I'd polish that cocking ramp while you have the bolt apart - the bolt lift will be noticeably smoother.

[caddisguy]

I'll definitely strip down the bolt and make sure everything is still functioning normally. I'll also put 60 rounds through it over the summer.

One thing I found while experimenting is that I can dry fire it with the bolt turned down half way, rather than all the way down and locked into position. I suspect this might cause a light primer strike. That said, I *think* I would have noticed. Additiinally I could not see a difference between the strike on the misfired cartridge versus one that fired, nor would I want to attempt to replicate the theory with a live round.

All I can really do is examine everything and put a few dozen rounds through it. I could use some practice with shooting anyway, while standing, with increased heart rate, etc. Even sitting with a big target 10 yards away, with a little exitement, it took longer than I wanted to remember to breath and steady myself.

[sawmill]

So you re-fired the faulty round and that pic is after it worked?What did the first strike look like?If it was that deep then it ain`t your rifle,it`s a bad primer.I have a 7 mag round I keep,the primer went pop and that`s all,when I looked at it ,it was split into 5 little pieces like a perfect little pie.It was Federal supreme.Just a factory thing.If you had sent a photo to the factory they would probably sent you a new box.

[caddisguy]

So you re-fired the faulty round and that pic is after it worked?What did the first strike look like?If it was that deep then it ain`t your rifle,it`s a bad primer.I have a 7 mag round I keep,the primer went pop and that`s all,when I looked at it ,it was split into 5 little pieces like a perfect little pie.It was Federal supreme.Just a factory thing.If you had sent a photo to the factory they would probably sent you a new box.

That picture was taken the next day before I put the round back in and fired it. It's a bit blurry, but from seeing it in person I can confirm that there was no visible difference between the initial strike on the misfired cartridge versus all the ones that fired without problem.

[BCBRAD]

Couple things can cause this, #1, cartridge could have had the shoulder set back to far creating a headspace issue ( the firing pin just drove the cartridge a little deeper in the chamber) #2, could have been a high primer, firing pin seated it a little deeper then may fire on the second attempt. #3, it may have been a dud primer, it happens rarely. I don't think it is the rifle if all other rounds fire reliably.

[Singleshotneeded]

IF I READ THAT CARTRIDGE CORRECTLY IT WAS WINCHESTER!! I'M NEVER BUYING THEIR CRAP AMMO AGAIN, THEIR QC SUCKS!!!
I tried a box of their garbage ammo in my son's .17HMR, it kept jamming and not feeding properly...and sometimes not firing. I gave the rest of it away to a guy next to us at the range and went back to our Hornady ammo...flawless. The only reason I tried a box of their stuff was because it was cheap and I thought just or two companies actually made rimfire ammo for all the rest...but it was junk.
Back in the 80s I stopped buying their shot shells after having a couple of them, from one box, fail to fire! One went pop, (the primer), but had no powder charge, and one primer failed to ignite. Those were grouse though, so no big deal, and I did get one of them after switching to a mid 60s Imperial #6 shell that dad had bought...good old Imperial and Canuck ammo! I did still have some of their cartridges (Winchester) for my .270, but I figured I'd use them for any finishing shots I might have to make. So dad and I were driving near Chilliwack Lake looking for good areas about noon and a hefty five point buck pops out onto the road about 20 yards in front of the truck...yeehaw! I hopped out and in my haste I grabbed a Winchester round and loaded it in my rifle, leaned against the truck, and pop! The primer fired but the cursed bastages at Winchester hadn't put a powder charge in the cartridge! Boing boing into the thick brush goes the buck, and he was a nice wallhanger! So hope that makes you feel better, one of the nicest-racked bucks I've seen was saved at point blank range by the morons at Winchester...never ever again will I touch a box of their ammo...even if it was free! :-)
Just for comparison, I've always used Federal Premium ammo in my .270, and after many hundreds of rounds fired, I've never had a single issue. Barnes Vor-tx ammo, I've been through a few boxes of their stuff, which I use in my '06, and no issues. I'd recommend to anyone that doesn't load their own to switch from Winchester to Hornady, Remington, Federal, or Barnes.

[walks with deer]

Will judging by your photos and region 2 you were probably withinh a hour of region 3
June 30th closing date.

[bowmagnum]

I had a federal not go off once. It was a recessed primer. The odds of it happening are super low I was told but....it still happens. I would bet your rifle is just fine. I put lots rounds through mine since but I will never buy another Federal Premium again.

[caddisguy]

I had a federal not go off once. It was a recessed primer. The odds of it happening are super low I was told but....it still happens. I would bet your rifle is just fine. I put lots rounds through mine since but I will never buy another Federal Premium again.

Funny I was actually wondering about the "odds" as well. What are the odds of the round not going off... maybe 1/1000? And the odds of that event coinsiding with a bear you managed to stalk down being within 10 yards standing broadside with no idea you're there... maybe 1/1000 as well. Vegas oddset for such a combo bet would be 1/1000*1000. That's 1/1000000. That would be like getting a Squamish elk draw in two consecutive years and a Reg 3 Bull draw on the third year. If my gf hadn't been there to witness the ordeal, I'd be hesitant to tell our hunter friends... would sound too much like a cliche fish story.