Thomas Pigeon and Production Company - Total Of $8,000 In Fines

[Gateholio]

A five-year investigation has led to a total of $8,000 in fines for a Toronto-area man and his video production company for the unlawful possession of illegally killed muskox and wood bison.

Thomas Pigeon pleaded guilty and was fined $2,000 for unlawfully possessing in Ontario a wood bison that was killed in the Northwest Territories contrary to the laws of that jurisdiction.

The video production company, Dancing Buffalo Productions Inc., under the direction of Thomas Pigeon, pleaded guilty and was fined $4,000 and $2,000 respectively for unlawfully possessing in Ontario two muskox and one wood bison that were all killed in Nunavut and the Northwest Territories contrary to the laws of those jurisdictions.

In addition to the fines, the taxidermy mounts of the animals and unedited video tapes of the hunting activities were forfeited to the Crown. All offences were contrary to the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997.

The court heard that between March 9, 2003, and April 9, 2003, Thomas Pigeon and others hunted muskox in Nunavut Territory and wood bison in the Northwest Territories. The major purpose of these hunting trips was to obtain video footage of hunting activities in order to use the video footage for a Canadian hunting television show that was at the time produced by Dancing Buffalo Productions Inc. As a result, both hunts were extensively recorded by two professional film crews.

With the assistance of Nunavut and the Northwest Territories Departments of Natural Resources and Environment Canada, investigators with the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources determined from seized videos that the muskox and wood bison hunts were conducted in violation of the applicable legislation in force at the time of the offences. The Northwest Territories and Nunavut legislation prohibits using a vehicle, motorized toboggan or motorized three-wheeled vehicle to knowingly get within 1.5 km of a muskox or within one km of a wood bison for the purposes of hunting them.

The videos show the defendants being brought to well within 1.5 km of muskox and one km of wood bison by hired guides while being towed in sleds behind snowmobiles. Also, the muskox were herded by the guides using snowmobiles toward Pigeon so that he could more easily select, hunt, shoot and kill the animal of his choosing.

In comparing the commercially produced episodes which are available to the public and were aired on a weekly basis on a national television network, the snowmobiles chasing, herding and controlling the wildlife had been edited from the final production. The final production depicts the hunters as engaged in a fair chase hunt while approaching the animals on foot and then shooting them.

The taxidermy mounts of the animals were possessed in Ontario by the defendants continuously until they were seized by Ontario conservation officers in April 2011.

Justice of the Peace Denis Lee heard the case in the Ontario Court of Justice, Milton, on May 2, 2014.

The Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act authorizes Ontario investigators to deal with the unlawful possession of fish and wildlife that have been killed, captured, taken, possessed, transported, bought or sold contrary to the laws of another jurisdiction. Subsequent possession in Ontario of such unlawfully obtained fish and wildlife is an offence.

For further information on hunting regulations, please consult the Hunting Regulations Summary available at ontario.ca/hunting.


http://www.thealgomanews.ca/news/national/total-of-8000-in-fines-for-unlawful-possession-of-illegally-killed-muskox-and-wood-bison/

[Rob]

5 year investigation and only $8000....unreal

[Fred1]

Reminds me of Henry Waszczuk and Itailio Labignan... oh and the Nuge for that matter too... yeesh....

[Vladimir Poutine]

Not good. Kudos to the poster. It has to hurt when one of us hunters does the wrong thing.

[r106]

The way I read it the hired Guides should get the fine as they are responsible aren't they??, not Thomas Pigeon.

[REMINGTON JIM]

The way I read it the hired Guides should get the fine as they are responsible aren't they??, not Thomas Pigeon.

BETTER re read the article as Thomas was completely part of the whole operation - just as responsible as anyone ! :twisted: RJ

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/illegal-bison-muskox-hunts-get-reality-show-founder-8k-fine-1.2641494

[adriaticum]

Policing the way we do it, doesn't prevent crime.
It only works to inhibit retaliation.

[bridger]

Sad situation! Always thought he was on the up & up!

[Fred1]

Stuff like this is really depressing. I think all involved in this should be charged/fined or whatever. The guides and outfitter should be on the hook for their actions as well. Part of the crime, part of the punishment...

[4 point]

Very sad indeed to see Piegon, his crew & guides doing this kind of thing. Another bad spotlight that us lawful hunters have to face from those opposed to hunting.

[markomoose]

Ya I used to watch his show on Wild T.V. Kind of dissapointing to see him doing the wrong thing to increase his viewers!Makes you wonder how many of these other outdoor shows are fixed??

[r106]

BETTER re read the article as Thomas was completely part of the whole operation - just as responsible as anyone ! :twisted: RJ

I understand he was part of it. I should have phrased it different. He's not completly inocent as he was charged and convicted but IMHO MIGHT not be solely responsible either. What I'm getting it is - He hired a guide, was he following the advice or using a technique on the advice of the guide? How much of that responsibility rides on the guides shoulders?

Yes Pigeon wants to make good TV but I bet the guide wants to as well. They both have something to gain. For one it's viewers for the other it's potential clients

I know if I hired a guide for a out of Province hunt I would be relying on his expertise to get me the animals Legally.

Not trying to defend him but there may be more to the story

[Foxtail]

Wow, 2003 the animals were hunted? 11 years ago and just fined now? Way to go justice system! I don't understand this one.

[guest]

I guess that's what was going on when the Beasley boys took over the show. Reminds me of a couple of Ontario boys with a fishing show a while back, caught poaching in closed areas etc. sad that they think this was OK to present as fair chase or catch.

[Ringo 7MM]

The way I read it the hired Guides should get the fine as they are responsible aren't they??, not Thomas Pigeon.

r u 106 in love with Thomas Pigeon? He is GUILTY.

[r106]

r u 106 in love with Thomas Pigeon? He is GUILTY.

Hey Bob Loblaw is back


Never met the guy and didn't like him much on CITR. I thought I was asking a valid question about the Guides responsibility's.

I see your ban is over. Put on your tinfoil hat and relax

[wicket]

just another tv hunter that has an overwhelming sense of entitlement and a tremendous ego. Yes I have first hand knowledge of both.

too bad he didnt get a bigger fine like in the states when you cross state lines with having broken f&g laws.....lacey act I think.

[Rhyno]

Bill Trowbridge who use to own Excalibur crossbows was busted for the exact same thing a few years back. You think Mr Pigeon would have learned not to film illegal activities!

Fines for wildlife infractions are pathetic!

[rides bike to work]

So say you are snowmobiling to a camp and come a cross some Miskox you would have to drive 1.5 km away then hike in on them. Or say you in camp that you snowmobiled to and the Muskox come to you.can you shoot?

[bearvalley]

So say you are snowmobiling to a camp and come a cross some Miskox you would have to drive 1.5 km away then hike in on them. Or say you in camp that you snowmobiled to and the Muskox come to you.can you shoot?
The answer would be yes to the first question and no to the second. Sure would be hell if the same rule applied for Region 7 bison hunts or for that matter all off road vehicle hunts.

[Beachcomber]

Wow, 2003 the animals were hunted? 11 years ago and just fined now? Way to go justice system! I don't understand this one.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

[300H&H]

There must be a lot of pressure on these hunters (show productions) to harvest a animal so they can have a "show" where a animal is taken.
Under pressure to perform, people will do crazy things.
Still there was no mention of the outfitter or the guides being held accountable.
They should be fully knowledgeable in regards to all rules and regulations.
If you buy a hunt, I would expect my guide to inform me of any regulations that govern my hunt...eg. cal. size, hunting hours, vehicle restrictions, antler size, etc.

[Steve W]

Why sweat how long it took to charge these guys? I think it's safe to assume that it took awhile for the violations to come to light. Think of it as a cold case coming to light after someone in the know got pissed off and dropped a dime. Given it's a commercial operation probably took a while to sort out who did what and when. Then get enough information in hand to convince a judge he should issue a search warrant to go get all the video and mounts - likely a few search warrants. Then interview everyone involved and sort out the BS from the truth. Get Crown to review the information and lay charges and get the bad guys and their lawyers into court. Fight with bad guys lawyers and eventually negotiated guilty plead and set up and appearance in court knowing that the bad guy is a minor celebrity in his own world and would delay it as long as possible.

Cops would love to an $8K fine for the shite they deal with. Environmental and F&W fines are significantly higher than fines for other crimes with more social/public impact. Factor in the loss of the mounts and what they cost. Future loss of income and endorsements from being a convicted poacher. The dollar value isn't much of a deterant to those that can afford it. Being a convicted poacher is a stain that's hard to get off. I've seen several high dollar bad guys fold because that alone and would do anything or pay anything not to have the bad news become public. Pigeon is likely done as a hunting personality.

Good work by the officers involved on what was likely a complicated cross jurisdictional investigations.

[r106]

There must be a lot of pressure on these hunters (show productions) to harvest a animal so they can have a "show" where a animal is taken.
Under pressure to perform, people will do crazy things.
Still there was no mention of the outfitter or the guides being held accountable.
They should be fully knowledgeable in regards to all rules and regulations.
If you buy a hunt, I would expect my guide to inform me of any regulations that govern my hunt...eg. cal. size, hunting hours, vehicle restrictions, antler size, etc.

Thats what I'm curious about as well. Not to point the finger at the Guides or off of Pigeon but I am curious to what degree are the Guides responsible for there client?

Not sure if this is something Steve W can answer?

[Ringo 7MM]

Hey Bob Loblaw is back


Never met the guy and didn't like him much on CITR. I thought I was asking a valid question about the Guides responsibility's.

I see your ban is over. Put on your tinfoil hat and relax

It is amazing how Bob Loblaw just seems to run out of your finger tips, and don't tell me to relax, little boy.

[4 point]

Didn't Shell Busey have to get off his Home Improvements Show in 2011 because he was successfully sued over a faulty roof or something?

[r106]

It is amazing how Bob Loblaw just seems to run out of your finger tips, and don't tell me to relax, little boy.


Who is Bob Loblaw? and what is your fascination with him?

Little Boy? lol. It's going to take a lot more than that to get me riled up on the internet. And I will suggest you relax and carefully place that tinfoil hat of yours back on your head

[Steve W]

Thats what I'm curious about as well. Not to point the finger at the Guides or off of Pigeon but I am curious to what degree are the Guides responsible for there client?

Not sure if this is something Steve W can answer?

Each incident would be different based on how involved in the violation each party was. As the guides on this forum can attest, some clients can be a real handful, others follow blindly whatever the guide says to do. Generally if a client does something wrong and the guide told him to do it both are accountable to some degree. In most of my dealings in this type of things the guide or A/Guides step up and take the hit. We don't know if the guides were charged or not. The real news is that Pigeon was and he's a hunting personality.

For the record - I retired on May 1st, so I'm no longer CO.

Steve

[r106]

Each incident would be different based on how involved in the violation each party was. As the guides on this forum can attest, some clients can be a real handful, others follow blindly whatever the guide says to do. Generally if a client does something wrong and the guide told him to do it both are accountable to some degree. In most of my dealings in this type of things the guide or A/Guides step up and take the hit. We don't know if the guides were charged or not. The real news is that Pigeon was and he's a hunting personality.

For the record - I retired on May 1st, so I'm no longer CO.

Steve

Thanks for the reply. On one hand I'm surprised the guides aren't held more responsible but on the other I can only imagine how much of a handful some clients could be.

Congrats on your retirement. You on to something else? or off to enjoy life? It was nice having a CO posting on this site as a CO. Hopefully one of your co-workers will step up and partake for the odd Q&A.

I still think a sub-forum here for the CO's would be a great idea for Q&A or looking for tips on incidents in areas or whatever the case may be

[Ringo 7MM]

Who is Bob Loblaw? and what is your fascination with him?

Little Boy? lol. It's going to take a lot more than that to get me riled up on the internet. And I will suggest you relax and carefully place that tinfoil hat of yours back on your head

Are you Threatening me Little Boy? Threats are a NO NO on this site, and since you can't figure it out, Bob Loblaw is a shorter term for
BLAH BLAH BLAH , which I see a lot of in your posts.

[r106]

Threatening you?? Are you off your meds?

[Gateholio]

Apparently Ringo learned nothing from his time out....

[Steve W]

Thanks for the reply. On one hand I'm surprised the guides aren't held more responsible but on the other I can only imagine how much of a handful some clients could be.

Congrats on your retirement. You on to something else? or off to enjoy life? It was nice having a CO posting on this site as a CO. Hopefully one of your co-workers will step up and partake for the odd Q&A.

I still think a sub-forum here for the CO's would be a great idea for Q&A or looking for tips on incidents in areas or whatever the case may be


Thanks. Not had enough time to wind down yet from being a CO so no plans on doing anything else for awhile yet. Certainly is a change of pace - but a welcome one.

It will be a challenge to an active duty CO to post on this site. I did it because I had the years in and I was pretty confident where the lines were regarding what I could say and how. I do hope that someone does step up. However, it would be a big time commitment to keep up any social media sites. Other focused activity sites like HuntBC would want some participation too.

Cheers

Steve

[longrifle]

So say you are snowmobiling to a camp and come a cross some Miskox you would have to drive 1.5 km away then hike in on them. Or say you in camp that you snowmobiled to and the Muskox come to you.can you shoot?


The answer would be yes to the first question and no to the second. Sure would be hell if the same rule applied for Region 7 bison hunts or for that matter all off road vehicle hunts.

Actually in the section it states that one has to knowingly approach within 1.5 km of a muskox using (in the Pigeon case) a snowmobile in order to be in contravention of the regulation...So, if one came across a group of muskox at 30 yards, without having seen them prior, you could get off your machine and legally shoot one.


'rifle

[300win]

Is this the same Tommy Pigeon that was on Canada in the Rough??

[bassplayer]

Is this the same Tommy Pigeon that was on Canada in the Rough??
Yep. That's him.

[hunter fisher]

alot of people commenting when they dont know the full story. if i spent a small fortune on a guided hunt, id rely on my guides to know the regs. i highly doubt a professional hunter would knowingly keep incriminating video footage around for 5+ years. all you finger pointers need to chill out.

[Elkhound]

Actually in the section it states that one has to knowingly approach within 1.5 km of a muskox using (in the Pigeon case) a snowmobile in order to be in contravention of the regulation...So, if one came across a group of muskox at 30 yards, without having seen them prior, you could get off your machine and legally shoot one.


'rifle

Thats how I understood it as well

[bearvalley]

[QUOTE=longrifle;1501342]Actually in the section it states that one has to knowingly approach within 1.5 km of a muskox using (in the Pigeon case) a snowmobile in order to be in contravention of the regulation...So, if one came across a group of muskox at 30 yards, without having seen them prior, you could get off your machine and legally shoot one.

Probably the best way to separate "unknowingly" from "knowingly is to make sure that no one has a video camera turned on. Otherwise it could be a fine line to walk. We should know the whole story before passing judgement but my thought would be the guy in the sled behind the snow machine wasn't the one planning the stalk.

[tomcat]

alot of people commenting when they dont know the full story. if i spent a small fortune on a guided hunt, id rely on my guides to know the regs. i highly doubt a professional hunter would knowingly keep incriminating video footage around for 5+ years. all you finger pointers need to chill out.I agree and having been a guide outfitter in the past I don't understand why the guides and/or outfitter are not the ones being charged. They should know the rules a regulations better than the hunters and are actually responsible for the hunters actions under their guidance IMO.

[358mag]

Is this the same Tommy Pigeon that was on Canada in the Rough??

Yes and he sold it out to the Belsey's brothers sure hope that they don't carry on the "Canadian Tradition"

[Opinionated Ol Phart]

Is this the "Canada In The Rough" guy?

[bridger]

One and the same!

[boxhitch]

I agree and having been a guide outfitter in the past I don't understand why the guides and/or outfitter are not the ones being charged. They should know the rules a regulations better than the hunters and are actually responsible for the hunters actions under their guidance IMO.Not sure of the whole story , but from what was quoted , Pigeon was charged with possession of the animals , nothing more ? Like any client , he gets to take the trophie home , but in this case it is possession of illegal animals . The rest of the story would tell what happened to the guides .

[Bluedsteel]

Thomas Pigeon is extremely wealthy, $8000 is just a drop in the bucket.

[.300WSMImpact!]

Thomas Pigeon is extremely wealthy, $8000 is just a drop in the bucket.

very true, what would have hurt a guy like this is a 5 year or 10 year ban on hunting

[300H&H]

Who is Bob Loblaw? and what is your fascination with him?

Little Boy? lol. It's going to take a lot more than that to get me riled up on the internet. And I will suggest you relax and carefully place that tinfoil hat of yours back on your head


Are you Threatening me Little Boy? Threats are a NO NO on this site, and since you can't figure it out, Bob Loblaw is a shorter term for
BLAH BLAH BLAH , which I see a lot of in your posts.

Let me get the pop corn...this is too funny.

[tangozulu]

I agree and having been a guide outfitter in the past I don't understand why the guides and/or outfitter are not the ones being charged. They should know the rules a regulations better than the hunters and are actually responsible for the hunters actions under their guidance IMO.

I don't want to protect poachers but have to agree with this sentiment. Recently there have several Yukon court cases where guided hunters seem to end up with bigger fines than their professional guides. For instance a Wyoming hunter with a BC guide got dropped of at lake A And get picked up a week later at Lake B. After killing a boo, moose and sheep during the hike between the lakes. They are both charged and convicted with wasting meat which inmy mind is entirely the guides fault. How was the hunter able to control the situation on a guided trip. Pretty sure he would not have even found there location on a map. The hunter has to trust his guide and is paying huge money for the advise.

[boxhitch]

We never seem to get 'the rest of the story' , so the myths continue.

[markomoose]

Was curious if the show "Canadian Tradition" is affiliated with " Canada in the Rough" They appear similar?Or possibly the same production company?

[Onesock]

You guys that are surprised at this amaze me! How thick can you be! He is going to do what has to do to produce at TV show. This serves him right. And to think of all the support he got from the BCWF.

[J_T]

very true, what would have hurt a guy like this is a 5 year or 10 year ban on hunting What would have hurt is a swift conviction. His CITR never would have made it if this got out back when it occurred.

[The Hermit]

It is incumbent on the hunter to know the regulations regardless if you are being guided or not. And I just don't believe for an instant that Pig-onion didn't knoow eactly what the guides were doing re herding the animals to him on vehicles. I wonder if the new owners knew about the charges before buying the franchise? If not they got ripped off and if so they probably got it for a song.

I wish the article at least identified the guide outfitter who, in my speculative opinion should be banned from guiding and hunting for life!

[Onesock]

Bill they all new about this that's why the TV show was sold. Pig-onion had to be out of it or the TV show would have gone down too. They also know about the permit to accompany in BC and still keep doing it. Hopefully this will come to an end. They should all go to jail, do not pass go.

[sheephunterab]

They also know about the permit to accompany in BC and still keep doing it. Hopefully this will come to an end. They should all go to jail, do not pass go.

Just curious what the issue is with the permit to accompany?

[bearvalley]

Just curious what the issue is with the permit to accompany?

No issue with Thomas. Some of the other CITR guys seem to come back to areas of BC with friends and permits to accompany where they have already been on guided hunts. Probably 100% legal even though it's debatable and quite grey. In my opinion a lot more class would have been exhibited if the group had hunted an area that the permitted BC non residents had never hunted before. If this had been done the questions would not have come up as to how good are the friends, how long have they been friends, and who knew their way around the area that was hunted in the best, the BC residents or the Ontario boys?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

We never hunted the area before the episode with the CITR crew. Went in blind.

[boxhitch]

Probably 100% legal even though it's debatable and quite grey.more grey and debatable at certain campfires , for sure.

[bearvalley]

more grey and debatable at certain campfires , for sure.

Agreed. As to SSS comment the CITR crew have been to BC on several hunts, both guided and under permits to accompany. If you went in blind on the hunt that raised the flags on this issue that only gives more reason as to the validity of the "friend" part of the permit being scrutinized further. I don't believe your hunt is the one in question but the CITR crew have returned to areas they had already hunted with an outfitter. Around some campfires this is OK, around others it is looked at in the same way as 3 guys hunting in your honey hole after you showed it to 1 of them.

[bridger]

[QUOTE=sheephunterab;1548555]Just curious what the issue is with the permit to accompany?[/QUOTE


Permits to accompany were implemented to afford non resident family members or friends of bc residents the opportunity to hunt in bc when accompanied by a bc resident that is family or friend. They were not designed to have a commercial overtone to them. There is a point of view in some circles that the citr crew by using the permit to accompany to avoid hiring an outfitter is stretching the spirit of the program.

[44inchStone]

And Bridger hit the nail on the head.
I can totally understand sponsoring a family member or friend. Give them the luxury of coming to BC to hunt. On the other hand I TOTALLY disagree with sponsoring friends from provinces to come out specifically to record a show. If one of our own wants to sponsor one of the Beasley brothers to come out and do a bear, goat or whatever NON LEH hunt then have at her. BUT when the trip is specifically meant to make a show then the line has to be drawn somewhere.
As an ex guide and after running into these guys in the mountains with their film crew, I always wondered if they had been guided, which would have been the legal and logit thing to do. But knowing the outfitter of the area, he said they were sponsored.

This has not been the first time they have come to BC to film hunts under the accompany permit.
It take money out of the pockets of the outfitters, their guides and our cummunity.
Are they any different than Pigeon?
It has happened before by other TV host's. Use a guide one year, find out his spots and then be sponsored the following year into the same area by a friend in the province.
JUST WRONG in so many ways!!


[QUOTE=sheephunterab;1548555]Just curious what the issue is with the permit to accompany?[/QUOTE


Permits to accompany were implemented to afford non resident family members or friends of bc residents the opportunity to hunt in bc when accompanied by a bc resident that is family or friend. They were not designed to have a commercial overtone to them. There is a point of view in some circles that the citr crew by using the permit to accompany to avoid hiring an outfitter is stretching the spirit of the program.

[bighornbob]

[QUOTE=44inchStone;1557232]
It has happened before by other TV host's. Use a guide one year, find out his spots and then be sponsored the following year into the same area by a friend in the province.
JUST WRONG in so many ways!!

Totally agree on that part. But if they go in blind like others have said I don't have a problem with that.

They have a found a grey area in the rules and are taking advantage of it. I don't think the outfitters are out any money as in most cases the guys would not be able to afford a guided hunt in the first place. Its not like the residents are being paid $5000 grand to take the CITR guys on a goat hunt where if they booked an outfitter it would cost $10000. Its basically get a free hunt with the residents or they don't come here.

And I find it really just sour grapes on the outfitters parts. Most outfitters don't seem to have a problem with the "grey area" of flying low in their super cubs in sheep valleys when there are residents there, while "looking for lost horses".

BHB

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I can understand the g/o in question being upset. But I have to wonder why would he be concerned about atv access areas?? Piles is people hunt there and it should not be direct competition to his business.

FYI- the guided hunt that Keith Beasley was on was a carry over from the Pigeon days ....not that it really matters.

SSS

[bearvalley]

FYI- the guided hunt that Keith Beasley was on was a carry over from the Pigeon days ....not that it really matters.
SSS

With that statement I would question that Beasley went in blind on his permit to accompany hunt. Maybe his sponsor went in blind but he didn't. If that's the case it kind of pushes the validity of a BC resident taking an out of province "friend" on a hunt. Seems pretty grey to me when the out of province friend is the one that had hunted the area in question before being sponsored to return there.....not that it really matters.

[GoatGuy]

Agreed. As to SSS comment the CITR crew have been to BC on several hunts, both guided and under permits to accompany. If you went in blind on the hunt that raised the flags on this issue that only gives more reason as to the validity of the "friend" part of the permit being scrutinized further. I don't believe your hunt is the one in question but the CITR crew have returned to areas they had already hunted with an outfitter. Around some campfires this is OK, around others it is looked at in the same way as 3 guys hunting in your honey hole after you showed it to 1 of them.

This issue certainly keeps coming up and has now morphed. It isn't just about this incident.

Have a few outfitters complaining about permits to accompany, calling COS about illegal guiding, commercial activities etc even when people are not on permits to accompany. Apparently if you have a video camera nowadays, a dog box, or pitch your tent in a 'non-designated campsite' you're going to get a call from the park ranger or CO for illegal activities lol. Or better yet have the outfitter show up at your house. On one hand funny, but a tragic waste of resources on the other. These are the kinds of things that are really going to reduce support for the outfitting industry by residents. Starting to become a major issue in the Okanagan for sure.

Boils down to this: Another day worrying about small picture stuff instead of making more wildlife.

When it comes to class it's the phone call that really bothered me.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

This issue certainly keeps coming up and has now morphed. It isn't just about this incident.

Have a few outfitters complaining about permits to accompany, calling COS about illegal guiding, commercial activities etc even when people are not on permits to accompany. Apparently if you have a video camera nowadays, a dog box, or pitch your tent in a 'non-designated campsite' you're going to get a call from the park ranger or CO for illegal activities lol. Or better yet have the outfitter show up at your house. On one hand funny, but a tragic waste of resources on the other. These are the kinds of things that are really going to reduce support for the outfitting industry by residents. Starting to become a major issue in the Okanagan for sure.

Boils down to this: Another day worrying about small picture stuff instead of making more wildlife.

When it comes to class it's the phone call that really bothered me.

You can add on calling to report that a resident hunter didn't pack out all the meat from a mule deer.....when there was over 100lbs of meat at the butcher shop.


Back to the grey area in question. Never hunted that area myself but have to wonder why a GO is hunting where there is road access in country like that while he can access a whole pile more away from the roads?? :confused:

SSS