Indian River Elk

[f350ps]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/first-elk-hunt-in-125-years-for-tsleil-waututh-nation-1.2605591?cmp=rss
That sure didn't take them long! K

[Rackmastr]

Interesting...

Isnt the use of Electronic game calls prohibited?

[358mag]

Its a First Nations hunt anything goes funny how that works .

[Ozone]

Was probably a traditional IPhone

[s0ylentgreen]

wow, the article even used a picture to show us they are using illegal methods ......

[Mikey Rafiki]

"Waugh has even taught himself elk calls using an app on his smartphone."

It's a little confusing because it suggests he just used it to learn how to call, but then the caption says they use it in the field.

A push button cow call is lazier and more effective than a push button i-phone that you can't hear 50 feet away, but yes the use of electronic calls is illegal.

[bc cooker]

I did not know that there were elk in that area. Are these transplants or have they been there for a while?

[hunterdon]

Come on guys. they didn't illegally use electronic calls. The article clearly states he used his phone app to teach him how to call. There's nothing illegal about that.
This story is a good one. This first nation group in co-operation with the ministry, successfully introduced elk to an area where the elk have disappeared long ago. In addition, they seem to be practising good sound management principles, only allowing a limited harvest. Good on them!

[jessbennett]

actually read it again. it states he HAS used it to teach him elk calling techniques. Under the picture of his i-phone, it also states that he uses the app on a regular basis in the field.. which is............. illegal.



Come on guys. they didn't illegally use electronic calls. The article clearly states he used his phone app to teach him how to call. There's nothing illegal about that.
This story is a good one. This first nation group in co-operation with the ministry, successfully introduced elk to an area where the elk have disappeared long ago. In addition, they seem to be practising good sound management principles, only allowing a limited harvest. Good on them!

[Ozone]

In addition, they seem to be practising good sound management principles, only allowing a limited harvest. Good on them!

Joining the lottery like the rest of us would be better, until then its just racist.

[jessbennett]

Amen........


joining the lottery like the rest of us would be better, until then its just racist.

[pnbrock]

If they are using all white mans tools and methods why not the same rules as us? Didn't white man transplant them elk.

[792]

Come on guys. they didn't illegally use electronic calls. The article clearly states he used his phone app to teach him how to call. There's nothing illegal about that.
This story is a good one. This first nation group in co-operation with the ministry, successfully introduced elk to an area where the elk have disappeared long ago. In addition, they seem to be practising good sound management principles, only allowing a limited harvest. Good on them!

The only real co-operation was agreeing to not slaughter every single animal put there. Non native hunters contributed more to this project than the band.

[SHACK]

Yup but the media always has to put a touchy feely story on the air and in print. You all know who payed for and who arranged this success story.

[f350ps]

Yup but the media always has to put a touchy feely story on the air and in print. You all know who payed for and who arranged this success story.
I know this is a touchy subject and it can bring out the worst in people but It's been bugging the shit outta me since I read about this. I understand that this band helped with the transplant or so we've been lead to believe but I think what has me pissed off is that we get to put in for ONE flat top on LEH and even at that we must check with the band to ask for permission. I've said this before and I will keep saying it, THIN EDGE OF A HUGE WEDGE!!!!! K

[HarryToolips]

The only extra right that FN's people should get regarding hunting is not having to pay for licences/tags.. they should have to abide by the same rules/regs as everybody else.. certain ethnic groups getting more rights than others just doesn't seem Canadian..how many other countries do this??

[REMINGTON JIM]

Its a First Nations hunt anything goes funny how that works .

YUP ! JUST more *ucking FN's BS - TIME for this all to END ! :twisted: :cry: jmo RJ

[REMINGTON JIM]

The only extra right that FN's people should get regarding hunting is not having to pay for licences/tags.. they should have to abide by the same rules/regs as everybody else.. certain ethnic groups getting more rights than others just doesn't seem Canadian..how many other countries do this??

And they not have to pay WHY ? :confused: RJ

[REMINGTON JIM]

I know this is a touchy subject and it can bring out the worst in people but It's been bugging the shit outta me since I read about this. I understand that this band helped with the transplant or so we've been lead to believe but I think what has me pissed off is that we get to put in for ONE flat top on LEH and even at that we must check with the band to ask for permission. I've said this before and I will keep saying it, THIN EDGE OF A HUGE WEDGE!!!!! K

Your not much RIGHT about HOCKEY but your spot on here f350ps ! K :wink: RJ

[HarryToolips]

And they not have to pay WHY ? :confused: RJ
Cant take it all away all at once I would think...

[walks with deer]

Boys he said the phone taught him to call.
We all know your phone can not match a real bugle or cow call some cityfied report embellished the story.
I am not from these tribes but I know men that are and the ones I know our honest conservationist that have helped me find a buck I hit at last light until recovery.
During regular season super safe. If they take a bull big deal be glad the animals are expanding.................................

[BuckEye]

Anyone having experience giving an interview with TV, Radio or print will quickly later determine that what you say, vs what is broadcast/printed is usually varied to say the least. Don't take the wording/clips of media as fact.

[f350ps]

Boys he said the phone taught him to call.
We all know your phone can not match a real bugle or cow call some cityfied report embellished the story.
I am not from these tribes but I know men that are and the ones I know our honest conservationist that have helped me find a buck I hit at last light until recovery.
During regular season super safe. If they take a bull big deal be glad the animals are expanding.................................
They could call Bull Elk from outta their A$$ for all I care, what bothers me is that they are going to kill Bulls and the taxpayers get to spend a fortune on lottery tickets to get a chance to kill a flat top!!!! Am I the only one that thinks this is FU€t up or is this kinda $hit becoming so commonplace that we've just grown complacent? K

[cassiarkid]

I'm probably more anti against this then pro, but what gets me is all the whining that always goes on about the First Nations and hunting, I bet very few complainers have done jack *&^%, besides whine on this site! Instead of always complaining, do something about it, then maybe we won't have to hear the same old crap. I know I'm not going to do anything about it, so I don't think I have the right to complain about it. If you don't have the balls to back up the talk, then you shouldn't always be ranting about it.

[Kudu]

wow, the article even used a picture to show us they are using illegal methods ......

Is that cell phone on steroids? Don't think an elk could hear mine beyond 25 feet quite frankly!

The band can have the same allocation as the resident (LEH)hunters - I personaly have no problem with that - however, what I do have a problem with - is the foreign hunter buying a tag (from the guide) - then shooting the biggest bull in there, for nothing more than a picture and some horns.....non resident trophy hunting needs to stop!

[Ozone]

Is that cell phone on steroids? Don't think an elk could hear mine beyond 25 feet quite frankly!

The band can have the same allocation as the resident (LEH)hunters - I personaly have no problem with that - however, what I do have a problem with - is the foreign hunter buying a tag (from the guide) - then shooting the biggest bull in there, for nothing more than a picture and some horns.....non resident trophy hunting needs to stop!
Maybe go one further, so you have to be born in BC to get a LEH :)

[f350ps]

Maybe go one further, so you have to be born in BC to get a LEH :)
I'm good with that, hell of an idea!!! K

[jessbennett]

CASSIARKIDDO,

pretty sure if the very few of us "whiners", that did and do give a crap about this one sided b.s. tried to do something(like a roadblock with weapons and bandanas over our face for example). our ass would end up in jail so fast your head would spin.wheres the equality in that? Seems awfully hypocritical that if we try to do something about it, want to say something about it, want to do something about it, we are racist, whiners, and so on and so on....time to seek help for the cranial rectal inversion, and realize that this isnt going to stop, and its only going to get worse. every hunting liscence and tag that i buy goes towards providing these transplants, habitat conservation, and so on and so on. that gives me EVERY DAM RIGHT to to say EXACTLY how i feel on the topic. are you willing to give up all your rights as a non first nations hunter? judging by the fact that you arent willing to do anything about it pretty much answers that question. eventually your going to lose those rights to hunt. if thats okay with you, then fine, but dont criticize those who are fed up with it and are willing to discuss it.

[cassiarkid]

jessbennett

I'm not saying that what a lot of what the First Nations do is alright with me. I'm with you, in thinking that if you and I put up a blockade, we would be arrested within minutes - unlike a lot of First Nations who use it as a tool to get what they want. What I am saying, is that if we don't have the balls to do something about it, then maybe we don't have the right to complain about it. And when we do constantly complain about it and do nothing about it, it gets old.

[goatdancer]

jessbennett

I'm not saying that what a lot of what the First Nations do is alright with me. I'm with you, in thinking that if you and I put up a blockade, we would be arrested within minutes - unlike a lot of First Nations who use it as a tool to get what they want. What I am saying, is that if we don't have the balls to do something about it, then maybe we don't have the right to complain about it. And when we do constantly complain about it and do nothing about it, it gets old.

What would you suggest we do that won't get us arrested and in all kinds of legal trouble?

[cassiarkid]

Goatdancer

Don't know, that's why I don't spout off about it being unfair and biased. I guess if enough people with the same views got together and came up with a plan, people would take it more seriously then just many individuals complaining on a website. There is safety in numbers, they would probably arrest 10 people, but far less likely to arrest 1000 people if that is what it took to make a point??

[goatdancer]

Goatdancer

Don't know, that's why I don't spout off about it being unfair and biased. I guess if enough people with the same views got together and came up with a plan, people would take it more seriously then just many individuals complaining on a website. There is safety in numbers, they would probably arrest 10 people, but far less likely to arrest 1000 people if that is what it took to make a point??

Wouldn't count on it.

[ducktoller]

jessbennett

I'm not saying that what a lot of what the First Nations do is alright with me. I'm with you, in thinking that if you and I put up a blockade, we would be arrested within minutes - unlike a lot of First Nations who use it as a tool to get what they want. What I am saying, is that if we don't have the balls to do something about it, then maybe we don't have the right to complain about it. And when we do constantly complain about it and do nothing about it, it gets old.

Yes all the natives get away with everything and are never arrested. That's why the number of natives in prison as a percentage of a population group FAR outweighs any other. Charges are pressed far more often on first nations than us whites

Considering the minority of lands that are reservations with some soverignity for various first nations versus crown lands, I think there is better things to worry about in regards to hunting rights and conservation.

Such as pipelines, opening BC parks to industry, poor management, firearms laws, businesses blocking off crown land FSRs, public opinion.
The whole bear thing is an issue but really that is ten-ish bands out of hundreds, and is a general population issue not just a native one.


A good way for the hunting community to have its needs met, and be respected by the community at large who shapes public policy, is by spouting off First Nations as the worst thing to happen to conservation.

[Kudu]

Maybe go one further, so you have to be born in BC to get a LEH :)


I'm good with that, hell of an idea!!! K


Sure - why not?

It wouldn't affect me or mine - (we never did do the LEH thing) - GOS is always good enough for us - (we mostly hunt with BC folk who have never bothered either)

[Kudu]

Yes all the natives get away with everything and are never arrested. That's why the number of natives in prison as a percentage of a population group FAR outweighs any other. Charges are pressed far more often on first nations than us whites

Considering the minority of lands that are reservations with some soverignity for various first nations versus crown lands, I think there is better things to worry about in regards to hunting rights and conservation.

Such as pipelines, opening BC parks to industry, poor management, firearms laws, businesses blocking off crown land FSRs, public opinion.

The whole bear thing is an issue but really that is ten-ish bands out of hundreds, and is a general population issue not just a native one.


A good way for the hunting community to have its needs met, and be respected by the community at large who shapes public policy, is by spouting off First Nations as the worst thing to happen to conservation.


Great response - some folk just can't see shit for porridge.......

[rbest]

Does anyone know how many they are taking?

[f350ps]

Does anyone know how many they are taking?
My guess is we'll never know that number but I'll bet it's a hell of a lot more than the one cow that we get to apply for!! K

[rattling_junkie]

Maybe go one further, so you have to be born in BC to get a LEH :)

But if you were born in BC, you can only apply for the region you were born in. And you can't leave the province for any purpose so you can stay BC pure.

[Kami]

All these First Nations issues do bother me. In my limited perception it does appear that they are getting special treatment. What I learn about in the media, (which we know is rarely unbiased or true facts) and what I have experienced personally has led me to form an opinion. Some days I get angry and spew off to my friends or family about what I believe is going on. A few weeks ago for example I was wound up pretty good. My son in Grade 11 texts me and asks, dad can they make us pray in public high school? I was surprised and said no, why? It turns out it was some sort or organized First Nations day around here. The local T'Kumlups band went to the high and put on some sort of a presentation in the gym. My son claimed that they were saying things like "people are starting to learn and realize that this is our land, first and foremost." They put on a sort of prayer type of ceremony and encouraged the high school kids to join them. I told my son to be quiet, respectful, and ignore it all. Attend if he must.

Now is this hunting related? Well it has helped me form my opinion about hunting related issues with First Nations. Can you imagine your local Hari Krishna group or Arabic Muslim community putting on a similar presentation in public high schools and asking kids to pray with them? Is this not special treatment?
Over the past 30 years any form of religion has been clawed out of the public school system. No more Christmas concerts, even. They have winter festivals for example.

Getting back to hunting...The special treatment of First Nations issues is upsetting. Yes, our fore fathers screwed up and created this reservation system so many years ago. The local Natives were separated from society and given reservation land. White man thought we were helping them. It has turned into a bloody nightmare. First Nations are getting special treatment today. They have every opportunity to study in school and work professionally in any career they choose to get off the reservation system. White man have implemented so many systems to help them along the way, financially and mentally. Many Natives do get off the social programs and thrive in society, many more don't. Trying to circle back to hunting here... The hunting thing is a problem for us. Not only are some First Nations hunting practises bothersome, but white man too are screwing things up. Lots of Red neck idiots are out there with 4x4's and guns, in the middle of the bush, who are doing stupid crap, wrecking things for all of us. Out of sight, out of mind mentality. Leaving messes all over the bush. Shooting up anything that moves almost, poaching, ripping up sensitive areas with quads and trucks, cutting fences, and more. It is easy to point at the First Nations and blame them. They are a group of people that we can tend to stereotype, and paint them all with the same brush. We have to stop that mentality. If we see something that they are doing, or something a white man is doing, we need to intervene. Bad behaviour needs to stop.
Record and report. We should clean up our own act too, and stop blaming First Nations for all the crap we see them do. Be responsible out there, and lead by example. Be respectful of nature and practise responsible hunting. Teach new hunters proper sustainable ways and be leaders out there for others.

I guess to me, yes First Nations hunting issues appear to be problems for us white guys. However we can sure go a long ways in cleaning ourselves up too.

[Papa Sasquatch]

Sasquatch get to roam the woods butt naked and no-one ever complained of special privileges. Even Natives on reserves don't get to do that!

[nelsonob1]

Great response - some folk just can't see shit for porridge.......

X2. Way too much Indian bashing.

[curt]

the reality is this and i was told this straight from a CO if there is an LEH for even 1 draw then the aboriginal community have a green light to hunt they are the first priority agree or disagree thats the way it is.

[f350ps]

the reality is this and i was told this straight from a CO if there is an LEH for even 1 draw then the aboriginal community have a green light to hunt they are the first priority agree or disagree thats the way it is.

I have absolutley no problem with that, my only concern is equitable harvest numbers. K

[MichelD]

The way I understand it works from having a Rosie draw on northern Vancouver island is that there are LEH permits issued and the local band with the claim in the area gets some too. In the area I was in it was two bull permits issued for LEH applicants and two for the band.

I heard a similar story in Sayward when I had a Rosie draw there too. There were a few designated hunters from the Campbell River band who were allowed to take the band's elk.

[604redneck]

**** every last one of them and **** the Canadian government for letting this happen.

[f350ps]

The way I understand it works from having a Rosie draw on northern Vancouver island is that there are LEH permits issued and the local band with the claim in the area gets some too. In the area I was in it was two bull permits issued for LEH applicants and two for the band.

I heard a similar story in Sayward when I had a Rosie draw there too. There were a few designated hunters from the Campbell River band who were allowed to take the band's elk.
Hahahaha.......so the taxpayer gets one Cow draw so they get the same, is that what you're saying? K

[Sitkaspruce]

Conservation #1, Indians #2, the rest of us #3.......so if there is an LEH, then there is no conservation concern.

On Northern Van Island, the local bands get to split a certain number of animals. I know the Alert Bay band gets a certain number of tags either sex and the band members put in their name for a draw. Once the draw is done, the members can hunt for either sex and the meat is split; 50% to the band and the rest to the hunter. The band reports the kill to the Gov. Salty can confirm this as things might have changed. A hunting buddy of mine, his neighbour in McNeill got a tag a couple years ago and this is how it was explained to me.

Just remember, if we can hunt, the indians can hunt as well, no matter if it is LEH.

Cheers

SS

[f350ps]

I totally get the program, what I'm hung up on is the fact that the wildlife branch would be so £u€king stupid to even consider an opening on this herd!!! I think they knew the FN's were going to take a bunch of these so they threw one cow draw out there for the taxpayer LEH to keep the heat off themselves! K

[aggiehunter]

Curt..in the "old days" if there was an LEH only hunt Indians could put in for the LEH too..they of course still can..once the can opened they now hunt whatever they want whenever they want in their traditional territory...I grew up hunting with Natives and don't know any that wantonly waste animals...unfortunately with what I call "new red power" many of my old native hunting buddies will not hunt with me.

[curt]

I dont disagree with you at all just stating the facts I spent the better part of an hour discussing the native side of things with the CO for many reason 3! the whole process interests me #2 I an half oboriginal and #3 my wife is a status Idian as well having said that i have never hunted out of season or withut a legal tag that everyone else could buy as well. Its an unfortunate situation in my honest opinion I thin kif its done fairly and with integrity then there isnt much one can say the government has set up this system but a lot of the newer gen Indians take advantage of their government given right for finaicial gains which is appaulling to me the fishery is the same deal its really too bad.

Curt..in the "old days" if there was an LEH only hunt Indians could put in for the LEH too..they of course still can..once the can opened they now hunt whatever they want whenever they want in their traditional territory...I grew up hunting with Natives and don't know any that wantonly waste animals...unfortunately with what I call "new red power" many of my old native hunting buddies will not hunt with me.

[curt]

I dont disagree with you at all just stating the facts I spent the better part of an hour discussing the native side of things with the CO for many reasons! #1the whole process interests me #2 I an half oboriginal and #3 my wife is a status Indian as well so i would be lying if I didnt say I have thrown the idea around myself however having said that i have never hunted out of season or without a legal tag that everyone else could buy as well. Its an unfortunate situation in my honest opinion I think if its done fairly and with integrity then there isnt much one can say the government has set up this system but a lot of the newer gen Indians take advantage of their government given right for the all mighty cash gains which is appaulling to me. the fishery is the same deal its really too bad.
I dont disagree with you at all just stating the facts I spent the better part of an hour discussing the native side of things with the CO for many reason 3! the whole process interests me #2 I an half oboriginal and #3 my wife is a status Idian as well having said that i have never hunted out of season or withut a legal tag that everyone else could buy as well. Its an unfortunate situation in my honest opinion I thin kif its done fairly and with integrity then there isnt much one can say the government has set up this system but a lot of the newer gen Indians take advantage of their government given right for finaicial gains which is appaulling to me the fishery is the same deal its really too bad.

[markomoose]

If you guys read the LEH SYNOPSIS you will read that the dock & surrounding land at the head of Indian Arm are owned by the Burrard Band.This means you need permission to dock your boat up there or to cross this property.From what I saw on the video they barged the elk to the head of Indian Arm and off loaded them on to band property.The way I see it is this transplant would not have happened without the Burrard Band being involved in some capacity?Have at-er boys!

[bandit]

If you guys read the LEH SYNOPSIS you will read that the dock & surrounding land at the head of Indian Arm are owned by the Burrard Band.This means you need permission to dock your boat up there or to cross this property.From what I saw on the video they barged the elk to the head of Indian Arm and off loaded them on to band property.The way I see it is this transplant would not have happened without the Burrard Band being involved in some capacity?Have at-er boys!

Pretty sketchy argument. Using that logic we should also be thanking Shell and Enbridge as the barge was no doubt powered by their oil sands.

I thought FN didn't believe in private land ownership anyways?