New spotter vs new binos.

[decker9]

Hey good morning. I'm looking for some first hand experience on some higher end optics. Here's my Dilemma.
Iv been saving up for a Swarovski spotting scope, iv wanted one for years, and now im almost in the position to fund one. My primary hunting is mountain hunting. So a few weeks ago, I busted my elite binos, (my only set of binoculars) so now I am without. I do have a nice Pentax ED 65 spotting scope that I picked up last year.
I'm kinda leaning towards a set of Swarovski EL range 10x42 now, since I'm out of binos.

My question, if I go ahead and by a Swarovski spotting scope, am I really going to notice a $2000 difference between it and my Pentax? My Pentax is great up to about 45x, then in the wrong conditions it gets them heat waves. But iv herd even the higher end optics still get this problem. Weight wise, I can't see a whole lot of difference. But, it's not a Swarovski. If I did go the spotting scope rout, I would be selling my Pentax to fund a , mid level set of binos.

So now, if i go the new binocular rout, i would probably go with a range finding set of binos.Looking at today's top of the line binos, Leica seems to have as many good reviews on their binos as Swarovski EL range does. A dozen in one hand 12 in the other? I have personally never looked threw either, anyone else had a chance to test out each pair side by side?

Thanks in advance!!
D9

[300rum700]

Your elites should have some warranty on them even if you have to pay a little. My experience is that you spend 90% of the time behind your binos but that being said my first big glass purchase was a swaro spotter while I still had nikon binos. Leica just announced geovids with angle compensation and they will be a 1000 less than the HD Bs so thats another option but if I were buying new it would be the HD Bs the swaros are nice but the leicas have HD glass and a better range finder. My suggestion is buy both, you will once you have one or the other anyway. Worth every penny.

[Blainer]

I lift my binoculars to my eyes more times in a single hunt than I have looked thru my spotting scope to date.
Spotting scope can prove to be invaluable on mountain hunts and identifying that 4th point.
Also invaluable for shooters at the range.
Tough call, but in my opinion, binoculars are your most important tool and most often used tool.
I will be curious to others response, especially the mountain hunters.

[Phil]

I have broken the elites twice in the past and sent them in for replacement. I had new ones shipped within three weeks each time no questions asked. Save your money and ship in the Elites, they are great binos for the money. The minor difference that some people report between them and the higher end glass is not worth the extra $$$ in my opinion.
You will still have cash for your spotting scope of choice.

[pescado]

Sounds like you need to find a way to spend some time behind a Swaro spotter to answer your question whether you think it is worth $2000 more than your Pentax. Some people will think it is worth the cash, some won't, best you answer the question yourself. You will still have mirage problems with a Swaro at higher powers as well. You do read favorable reviews about the Pentax from a price point perspective but I would think you will find the Swaro a lot easier on the eyes and this in turn will lead to more time behind the scope which will lead to more game spotted. It will be interesting to get your perspective on whether you feel its worth the extra $$ after you spend some time behind a Swaro.

[Kopper]

My dad picked up a top of the line swaro spottin scope 2 years ago. That year we took it on a summer goat hunt. At high power it will have some distortion just like anything else; just to a lesser extent. With that being said it is an amazing scope and was thoroughly impressed, it made my leupold golden ring look not so good. He also has those swaro 10x42 which are surprisingly heavy so bring a bino bra if you should go that route; but they are great optics.
Personally in the mountains I scan with binos first then pick it apart with the scope so I think a better quality scope will be of more use there in my opinion. I would second the motion of buying both as well since that's my plan too.

[Singleshotneeded]

Keep the Pentax scope if it's working for you...yes the heat waves effect all high magnification optics. Your most important optic that you spend 90+% of your time looking through is your binos. As 300rum mentioned the new Leicas have HD glass and they've always been tops in range finding...that would be a killer unit combining glassing and range finding. Check out your reviews, Cabelas.com has some good reviews as well...but the Leicas are solid and better value than Swaro, which is still banking on it's name to gouge consumers. While you're on cabelas.com, just to look at another option, check out the reviews on the Euro HD binos made by Swaros' neighbour in the Czech Republic, Meopta. These are the ones I have, and they're a perfect example of what high end optics should cost when the company isn't using it's "name" to gouge it's customers. Unfortunately they don't incorporate a range finder, but I've looked through Swaro and Leica binos in different light situations and the performance was the same. I picked mine up under the Meopta name on Ebay for $700...killer deal for top end binos. Toss it around, a lot of hunters don't want their range finder in the same unit as their binos, because when they eventually fail they're out both units until their binos come back from being repaired. But if you really want both range finder and binos in one unit, from what I've read and my look through Leicas, you won't go wrong with them! That HD glass is excellent! :-)

[GoatGuy]

depends on what kind of hunting. Personally I'd buy a set of both used.

Even if it has a 'lifetime warranty' it doesn't do you any good when it breaks in the middle of nowhere.

[decker9]

Hey thanks so far guys. I think I'll send my elites in for warrentie work anyway, I bought them in '07, I'd have to say that compared to any of my other equipment, them elites took the biggest beating, many many mountains, lost them under the snow for a month, and they still worked great, up till the focus nob fell off. If I do send them in, and get them back, I will be handing them down to my little nephew now that he's getting to the age of gathering his own gear.
I did some reading on the leica HD-b's. they sound pretty pronominal. I guess I'm stuck on being able to look threw the Swarovski and Pentax side by side. I know there will be a difference, just not sure if it would be worth the extra$$. At some point regardless I will own a swarvo spotter. I got a real good deal on the Pentax 2nd hand, that's the only reason I bought it, I always said if I'm going to spend $1000 on an decent spotter, that I will bite the bullet and go big (Swarovski), and also goes with my next binos. Part of my dilemma with binos is how hard I am on them, unlike a spotting scope that spends most its time on a tripod or in my pack, my binos always seem to take a kicking.

Ssn, Iwill definitely take a closer look at the meopta binos, for that price It seems a guy can't go wrong if they'r up there somewhere close with Swarovski and Leica. That would pretty much solve my dilemma!!

thanks all!

[Darksith]

Yo E...I would be buying the binos. You use them way more than you use the spotter. I always thought I wanted a set of range finding binos, but I honestly don't think they are worth it now. I wish I had the 10x binos rather than the 8x...

if you are heading south at all, you are more than welcome to come look through my swaro spotter if you need a comparison

[Buck]

Keep the Pentax spotter and just get a better zoom lens for it or get a fixed power pentax xw 14 or 21 eyepiece and use a Barlow doubler.Weighs the same as a zoom with better AFOV and clarity.Get the good binocs and personally i would get 8x32 or 10 x32.

[decker9]

Yo E...I would be buying the binos. You use them way more than you use the spotter. I always thought I wanted a set of range finding binos, but I honestly don't think they are worth it now. I wish I had the 10x binos rather than the 8x...

if you are heading south at all, you are more than welcome to come look through my swaro spotter if you need a comparison

Ah crap! I was down there a few weeks ago, stayed a night with Lou. Next time for sure!!

[todbartell]

Quality optics are very good investments. Took me a decade to realize this, now I have a pair of Vortex Razor HD 10x42's and a Razor 16-48x65 spotter. Won't be needing to upgrade for some time

Go with the best you can afford and you won't look back. Trim your budget in hunting expenses in other places that don't matter as much

my . 02 pesos

[StoneChaser]

Good glass is a lifetime investment. I bought a pair of 10x42 EL's in 2003 and. Zeiss 15-45x65 Diascope spotter in 2005, and am still hunting them hard. I'd buy the binos first and upgrade your spotter if/when you feel the need. Personally I won't own a pair of binoculars with a built in rangefinder. Lifetime glass with limited lifetime / life span electronics don't interest me.

[wlbc]

Good evening Decker9,

I'll offer some observations and hopefully they help you with your deliberation.

Binos vs spotting scope

As others have mentioned, I seem to look through my binoculars a whole lot more than my spotting scope. Accordingly this is where I would go for quality first.

Bino quality

From my experience there is a difference with the top glass, but you won't see it on Saturday morning at the range. Where the top glass shines is across a valley in the shadows, in the late afternoon; in all honesty in good light, at 500 yards, it is hard to tell the difference between top end Bushnells and Swaros.

I was fortunate enough to have a hunting associate lend me his treasured Swaro EL range binos and the local sporting store let me take out a set of the Vortex Razors, and the new Bushnell 10x40 fusions and scan the through the last light of the day across the valley I live in. Through the fusions I could see a yard, ranged somewhere around 1500 or 1600 yards (I can't recall exactly) with a grey blob that I thought was moving. Through the Vortex Razors I was pretty sure I was a dog like shape and it was moving. Through the Swaro's it was a grey scotty dog terrier sniffing around trying to find a place to pinch a loaf. That is what you pay the money for.

Nothing wrong with the others, darn good value actually, but under those conditions the Swaro was...wow.

The question for you is, "Do I need, want that kind of clarity at that kind of distance and light?" If you do then you need to buy some alpha glass.

Next is brand, lots of opinions out there and I'll offer mine. When I was looking I looked long and hard at the Leica's under similar conditions to those I just described and they were lacking. I thought the Zeiss were optically equal but no rangefinder - so Swaro's for me and no regrets.

My counsel to you is not to listen to me or others but to look for yourself. Leica, Zeiss, and Swaro are constantly improving, they all have a different fit and feel, and through your eyes you might find one clearer and sharper than another despite what you read in a thread like this. At the time I was looking I thought Leica's product was lacking, however, they have come out with a new model that apparently trumps the current Swaro.

The same goes for spotting scopes as far as when you can tell the difference, how it may occur for you, and if it is worth it to you. When I looked them all over I ended up getting a Leica - go figure!

I would be happy to show you my Swaros under low light conditions. PM if interested.

[hunter1993ap]

I don't care for the feel of the el range, I also don't want electronics in my binos. of course this is just my personal opinion. in reference to bino or spotter? im on the fence. I have hunted with terrible binos and a good spotter and the combo always worked. now I have quality glass in both aspects. worth every penny, and I use my spotter almost equally as much as my binos. it is amazing what a difference quality glass made over mediocre. I was always under the impression that ok glass was just fine, I have a whole new outlook now that I have good glass. I was watching a deer in some thick timber on a side hill about 800 yards in a blizzard, and could see every fine detail of the deer even in unfavorable conditions. I then grabbed a pair of mid range bushnells and could barley find the deer, let alone tell what it was. the only reason I found it was because I knew what I was looking for. its really hard justifying the amount of money they cost but once you have them they pay for themselves many times over.

[OutWest]

I'd do what what GG said and buy a used set of both. You get quality glass out of each and the price is a lot more reasonable. There's a fair bit of used glass out there in good condition. Just takes some searching.

[decker9]

Hey thanks a lot for the input guys, I appreciate it all!! Some very good points about keeping binos and range finder separate, makes perfect sence really.

Wlbc, that's some very good info!! And very generous of you to offer me a chance to check out yours!! Pm sent!!

[Krico]

Decker I owned that same Pentax spotter before I upgraded to my Swaro, the Pentax is a great piece of glass and excellent value. Yes the Swaro is better, just how much better I'm not sure. The upgrade cost me about $1000 once I sold my Pentax, as I bought the Swaro with the eyepiece on clearance for $1500 when they upgraded the housing from aluminum to magnesium. If you add the money you've set aside to whatever you sell the Pentax for you'll likely be able to get both a spotter and binos from a top shelf manufacturer - if you shop around for deals.
If it were me, I'd see what I could get warranty wise on the Elites first. Make your move from there.

[Everett]

Check out these guys they get some great deals on demos and used binos. http://www.eurooptic.com/
These guys are good as well http://www.cameralandny.com/

[Chopper]

Hey good morning. I'm looking for some first hand experience on some higher end optics. Here's my Dilemma.
Iv been saving up for a Swarovski spotting scope, iv wanted one for years, and now im almost in the position to fund one. My primary hunting is mountain hunting. So a few weeks ago, I busted my elite binos, (my only set of binoculars) so now I am without. I do have a nice Pentax ED 65 spotting scope that I picked up last year.
I'm kinda leaning towards a set of Swarovski EL range 10x42 now, since I'm out of binos.

My question, if I go ahead and by a Swarovski spotting scope, am I really going to notice a $2000 difference between it and my Pentax? My Pentax is great up to about 45x, then in the wrong conditions it gets them heat waves. But iv herd even the higher end optics still get this problem. Weight wise, I can't see a whole lot of difference. But, it's not a Swarovski. If I did go the spotting scope rout, I would be selling my Pentax to fund a , mid level set of binos.

So now, if i go the new binocular rout, i would probably go with a range finding set of binos.Looking at today's top of the line binos, Leica seems to have as many good reviews on their binos as Swarovski EL range does. A dozen in one hand 12 in the other? I have personally never looked threw either, anyone else had a chance to test out each pair side by side?

Thanks in advance!!
D9

The range finding El's were better than the range finding licas the Past couple years ... But now the Licas came out with a computer that calculates angle ,barometric pressure and BC/Bullet speed all at the press of a button out too 1000 yards

They are not giving them away by any means but ... they are out

[pescado]

I find I spot a lot of game glassing thru the spotter. Time spent behind it can be a lot more valuable than walking thru the bush hoping or putting miles on in the vehicle. Make sure what you buy is what you want and get good with it. You will need a good tripod and head combo if your going to be using it lots to spot game so factor that into the equation. The Pentax is considerably lighter than the Swaro 65 isn't it?

[300rum700]

Once you have a set of range finding binos you wont go back. You can find NIB Geovids for 2000 right now. I sat down with all three several times and chose the geovids, swarovski has brighter glass that enhances greens and yellows but the leicas have better color and clarity. (Plus you get a rangefinder built in for the same price as the swarovisions) I talked to a lot of people before I bought and if you spend the time and really look for the detail you will notice it.

[decker9]

A lot of good ideas and opinions here. How about warrenty? Iv herd Swarovski is a no questions asked, send it in and it gets fixed, i wonder if its the same with their range finding binos? or would they be a limited liftime type thing? I have herd the odd bad story about leica? Not to mention if I ever go to resell, the warrenty is not transferable?. For as hard as I am on my gear, the Swarovski warrenty sounds pretty good. Also, anyone have any experience with meopta warrenty?

weight is certainly something that appeals to me, lighter is better. Pescado, from what I can tell the Pentax and Swarovski are pretty close to each other, give of take a couple oz's. as mentioned earlier, a fixed eye piece on my Pentax may be a good thing. An eye piece and a set of binos is certainly reachable before this coming season.

[Buck]

A lot of good ideas and opinions here. How about warrenty? Iv herd Swarovski is a no questions asked, send it in and it gets fixed, i wonder if its the same with their range finding binos? or would they be a limited liftime type thing? I have herd the odd bad story about leica? Not to mention if I ever go to resell, the warrenty is not transferable?. For as hard as I am on my gear, the Swarovski warrenty sounds pretty good. Also, anyone have any experience with meopta warrenty?

weight is certainly something that appeals to me, lighter is better. Pescado, from what I can tell the Pentax and Swarovski are pretty close to each other, give of take a couple oz's. as mentioned earlier, a fixed eye piece on my Pentax may be a good thing. An eye piece and a set of binos is certainly reachable before this coming season.

Tip for finding a fixed pentax XL or XW eye piece is to search( cloudy nights ) they come up there fairly often.The XL is the model before XW these are right at the top arguably the best eyepieces in the world.
Amazon has the XW on sale for a very good deal right now.I picked up and XL 14mm on cloudy nights for $150.00 bucks recently.

[decker9]

Tip for finding a fixed pentax XL or XW eye piece is to search( cloudy nights ) they come up there fairly often.The XL is the model before XW these are right at the top arguably the best eyepieces in the world.
Amazon has the XW on sale for a very good deal right now.I picked up and XL 14mm on cloudy nights for $150.00 bucks recently.

Iv read a lot of good reviews about the fixed Pentax eye pieces. The guys that use the xw10 and the xw14 sure seem to like them. Do any of you use a fixed eye piece on your spotters while in the mountains? It would be a bit of a pain having to pack around two eye pieces kinda, I would certainly still want the zoom for tellinging me if a ram is legal or a Billy's 10", but something like these two eye pieces would sure be nice for scanning mountain sides.

Im really leaning towards a new eye piece for this Pentax and use it till my next trapping season, when I can afford the spotter I want.

Really appreciate all the feed back!! Thank ya all!

[Brew]

I would go with a good pair of binocs. I find for most of my glassing I use binocs then switch to the spotter once something needs a closer look. Also try mounting your binos on a try pod. It really helps a lot. Currently I have a zeiss spotter and it is great but no matter what you will always have heat waves in your high magnification optics(mirage).

[BC Boy]

Hi Decker, I usually don't post but I wanted share my experiences with spotting scope and binos. A while back I also had the pentax spotter you own, I bought it because it had great reviews and it was the best glass I could afford. I was happy with it and used it a lot, my hunting partner bought a swaro and I thought they were pretty close until watching some bulls and cows one evening. They were far away and and it was raining intermitantly, I spotted them first, I said there are 8 cows and two bulls, one looks bigger than the other( this was the most I could define with the pentax). He took a look through his scope and said the smaller one is a five and big guy is a 6x6 with 18" 6ths, I looked through his scope and could not believe the difference. I sold the pentax and had the swaro hd by next season. As far as binos, I purchased Leicas as my first major optics purchase, I think the top three are all outstanding glass, Im not a rich man and Ive never once regretted spending the money on high end optics.

[Weatherby Fan]

As Brew and BCBoy say above I would get yourself a very good set of binos and then save up for the spotter, I got some great advice from a guy I met hunting 25 years ago........buy a set of Leica 10x42 binoculars.........glad I listened as I still use those binoculars today and they are crystal clear with no eyestrain, I also use the binoculars everyday at work so they get used all year round and have never failed me,

Something to be said for quality binoculars, doesn't have to be Leica as there are several well made binos on the market today.

Your binoculars will be the one piece of hunting equipment that you use more than anything else.

[Buck]

Fixed eyepiece is a bit unconvetional but there is something to say for the AVOV 30 power at 70 degrees is a great view. I have a 2 power barlow that weighs a few ounces.Just screw it on for 50 power for a good close look.But each to there own.