Another "what breed" with a twist.

[Ricky Bobby]

So I have decided its time to replace my dogs, been 2 years without a pup. I have always had a dog or two and I use them for 2 purposes, 1 is a trail dog that is my companion when mountain biking, 2 is a retriever for goose hunting. I currently only have room for one dog and would ideally find a dual purpose dog capable of doing both, I have owned and worked with several labs and goldens as retrievers however my experience is they are too heavy bodied to be trail dogs (My last 2 trail dogs were cattle dog Blue Heelers).

Ideal trail dogs can go for 3-4 hours cruising on single track trails. I find anything over 50-55 lbs is usually too heavy for a trail dog but I have never owned a smaller breed of gun dog so looking for input on breeds.

[BiG Boar]

What about one of the versatile breeds? Many have pointer and retriever ish qualities built into them. Females tend to run smaller. I would assume their endurance would be good enough. I would definitely do both with my pup.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?102834-Duchess-the-Pudelpointer-Dog

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn5/bigbore14/144EA2F8-1363-452A-9862-C20CDF16666E_zpsb3ril5wr.jpg (http://s300.photobucket.com/user/bigbore14/media/144EA2F8-1363-452A-9862-C20CDF16666E_zpsb3ril5wr.jpg.html)

It's definitly a high energy breed so I don't think the running would be an issue.

[Ricky Bobby]

I am open and specifically looking for more 'unknown' or less popular breeds that will fill the niche. Versatility is great but I don't want a 'pointer' dog, I don't do upland, chances are the dog will never handle anything but geese and ocassional duck.

I am open to any breed that will work as both. Whats your dog weight in at? My biggest concern is any dog that's 50+ tends to have a very short life span as a trail dog, useful in puppy stage but by 4-5 they don't have the gas to really go on trail rides and the long distance loping is hard on the joints of bigger dogs.

[Legi0n]

sorry to break it for you but there's no such dog.
no critter can keep up with a mountain bicyclist barreling down a mountain side.
no dog can endure the boredom of a mountain bicyclist going up a mountain side.

[Ricky Bobby]

sorry to break it for you but there's no such dog.
no critter can keep up with a mountain bicyclist barreling down a mountain side.
no dog can endure the boredom of a mountain bicyclist going up a mountain side.

Thanks I'll make sure to pass that along to the several dozen dogs that I have ridden with. This is not a DH dog, my loops are usually 10-20 km laps that are rolling hills or pulsing climbs/downhill

[BiG Boar]

I think one of the issues you will have is finding a small dog that will retrieve geese. They are a big bird for a 50 pound or less dog. Mine will be around 60 when full grown. Pointers are bred to run all day long hunting, I don't think your endurance ideas are on at all.

Not sure if you know this, but from what I've read, you shouldn't run a dog under 2 years old anyways. Hip dysplasia is common on dogs that are run too long and hard when their bones are developing.

Good luck in your quest though. Also, versatiles are bred for water work as well as upland as well as blood tracking. In fact I pretty much only will use mine on waterfowl. But hope to start doing more upland soon.

[steveo]

I have always tried to keep my lab a little plump in the winter to fight cold and lighter in the summer for a little relief from hot grouse hunting days but my first choice wouldn't be a lab for a trail dog in the hotter months especially a black one. One of the versatile breeds would be great for your trail needs but I have a wire-hair and don't think he could suck the cold up on a goose hunt at least not for long. He fetches fairly well but I think he would have a hard time sitting to long in the blind at a young age. You have a good riddle to solve, good luck.

[Ricky Bobby]

I think one of the issues you will have is finding a small dog that will retrieve geese. They are a big bird for a 50 pound or less dog. Mine will be around 60 when full grown. Pointers are bred to run all day long hunting, I don't think your endurance ideas are on at all.

Not sure if you know this, but from what I've read, you shouldn't run a dog under 2 years old anyways. Hip dysplasia is common on dogs that are run too long and hard when their bones are developing.

Good luck in your quest though. Also, versatiles are bred for water work as well as upland as well as blood tracking. In fact I pretty much only will use mine on waterfowl. But hope to start doing more upland soon.

I have no doubt a pointer would keep up, I've ridden with several, however I have shot over 2 pointers on waterfowl and not been impressed (likely due to training vs dog), so want more retriever behaviour. However my labs and goldens could not keep up, I got 2-3 good years as trail dogs where a heeler or collie will be good for 8-10.

You pup looks like a great dog. One of the problems I have in cross over dog is like you mention geese are big birds and a wounded goose can put up a scrap I don't want the dog to be too small to handle geese. My smallest gun dog came in at 65# so I am curious as to how smaller breeds handle the geese. One I am interested in is the toller as they are a smaller bodied retriever. Versatility is a big bonus for me though and the though of something like your Duchess interests me.

If I don't find a dog that crosses over I will go for a gun dog over trail dog as its more important to me to have a gun dog than trail companion.

[hotload]

Just a suggestion on the versatile breed as wonderful as they are, if you do decide to go in that direction for a dog is that the GWP, Drahthaar, and Griffons tend to bog down big time in the heat and would be subject to heat stroke in the hotter months which is probably the same months you would be doing most of your biking. Theres many dogs out there that would fit your needs, choose wisely........

[boxhitch]

While not a biker , I have looked at airedales and munsterlanders as potential new companions , jack of all trades type dogs.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I think one of the issues you will have is finding a small dog that will retrieve geese. They are a big bird for a 50 pound or less dog. Mine will be around 60 when full grown. Pointers are bred to run all day long hunting, I don't think your endurance ideas are on at all.

Not sure if you know this, but from what I've read, you shouldn't run a dog under 2 years old anyways. Hip dysplasia is common on dogs that are run too long and hard when their bones are developing.

Good luck in your quest though. Also, versatiles are bred for water work as well as upland as well as blood tracking. In fact I pretty much only will use mine on waterfowl. But hope to start doing more upland soon.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog. My 55and 51 lb Goldens will retrieve geese all day long the infamous methlab while probably around 60 lbs should be 50 and she's handles geese just fine. Evena 35 lb spaniel can do the job once they master the technique. It's more about learning to handle the bird than pure size. Check out the below video its worth a watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTf00wt5gTg

[Iron Glove]

WE take our Tollers on long ATV and Mtn. Bike treks, they are 30 lbs. and 40 lbs. With their heavy coat tho' we always make sure we are near water, preferably a river or lake for cool downs.
I'm not a waterfowler so can't offer comment on that aspect.
Check with Kasomar on this site, she breeds and hunts Tollers and I seem to recall seeing pics of her dog(s) goose retrieving.

[huntingfamily]

It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog. My 55and 51 lb Goldens will retrieve geese all day long the infamous methlab while probably around 60 lbs should be 50 and she's handles geese just fine. Evena 35 lb spaniel can do the job once they master the technique. It's more about learning to handle the bird than pure size.

Well said Foxton Gundogs. I believe that a lot of cold water or difficult retrieving is mental. If the dog wants to do it, he will try his absolute best. Good breeding and proper exposure will help to bring this quality to the surface.
I had a Brittany that we used for late season duck and goose hunting in okanagan lake for years. I have many good memories of that little guy hauling ducks and canada geese out of the lake and up the bank to me in late season. He wasn't a big britt either.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Casey_ducks.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Casey_geese.jpg

Not all dogs have that make-up however.

[Ricky Bobby]

Thanks for the inut. Tollers seem to be the size I have considered an ideal size, will look into them more. The more versatile breeds seem interesting but to be honest I'm not sure where to start with all the breeds.

[BiG Boar]

I would look here. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Versatile_Hunting_Dog_Association

[Foxton Gundogs]

Just a foot note on my previous post, I included the Springer just to show size does not matter. I wouldn't recommend a Spaniel as a trail/camp dog as it's in there nature to want to be questing for game and are a little hard to keep track of at times. When I have my Spaniels in camp, they are always a little on edge, wanting to be out and doing rather than just lying around.

[Good2bCanadian]

My pointer loves following me on my mountain bike, as well my quad on the trails.
It took a few years for her to mature to the point I can truly trust her to recall everytime.

Most of the time she leads and her intuition of direction of the trail is excellent.
If she takes a wrong turn, she knows quickly. It's very hard to lose her.

She loves doubling on the quad as well.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x415/mikesmith7/09dbac44-58d9-45bd-9a26-3857e6dfeea6_zpsa4977527.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/mikesmith7/media/09dbac44-58d9-45bd-9a26-3857e6dfeea6_zpsa4977527.jpg.html)

[GoatGuy]

We used to take the lab when doing mtn bike grizz trips, seemed to work fine, but didn't go biking weekly. Runt of the litter, around 50 lbs in shape.

A collie/lab cross might work. Seen a few that love to retrieve and they have a lot of go in them, although the 'fowl guys' might hold their nose.

[Foxton Gundogs]

We used to take the lab when doing mtn bike grizz trips, seemed to work fine, but didn't go biking weekly. Runt of the litter, around 50 lbs in shape.

A collie/lab cross might work. Seen a few that love to retrieve and they have a lot of go in them, although the 'fowl guys' might hold their nose.

What ever gave you that idea LMFatAO

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n499/FoxtonGundogs/HBC%20Crap/d888ef75-129f-45ac-81a6-a1793472c8ab.png (http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/FoxtonGundogs/media/HBC%20Crap/d888ef75-129f-45ac-81a6-a1793472c8ab.png.html)

[GoatGuy]

Hahahaha, that's kinda what I was expecting lol!

Know a guy that took a collie x to a retriever training seminar - sounded like it wasn't exactly a warm welcome.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Hahahaha, that's kinda what I was expecting lol!

Know a guy that took a collie x to a retriever training seminar - sounded like it wasn't exactly a warm welcome.

There are lots of "mutts" that will do the job but way more that won't. When you throw a bunch of genetics in a blender and turn it on you never know what will come out and its almost imposable to tell when picking a 9 week old pup. Y have known some great Xbred gundogs but it's the luck of the draw I knew a Lab/GSP that was a great flushing retriever but showed no inclination to point another pup of the same breeding that would point like a demon and still another that would do none of the aforementioned. I met a woman at the ferry who was walking what looked to be a Chessy/GWP I we got to talking and it turned out it was a so called Labradoodle. She bought it for big $ because it was not supposed to shed and be hypoallergnic, turns out it shed like crazy and her daughter was allergic to it, you just never know. That is why there are such strict rules for breed creation in the registries. If you want a dog for a given purpose, do your research and get a dog bred for that purpose .

[GoatGuy]

There are lots of "mutts" that will do the job but way more that won't. When you throw a bunch of genetics in a blender and turn it on you never know what will come out and its almost imposable to tell when picking a 9 week old pup. Y have known some great Xbred gundogs but it's the luck of the draw I knew a Lab/GSP that was a great flushing retriever but showed no inclination to point another pup of the same breeding that would point like a demon and still another that would do none of the aforementioned. I met a woman at the ferry who was walking what looked to be a Chessy/GWP I we got to talking and it turned out it was a so called Labradoodle. She bought it for big $ because it was not supposed to shed and be hypoallergnic, turns out it shed like crazy and her daughter was allergic to it, you just never know. That is why there are such strict rules for breed creation in the registries. If you want a dog for a given purpose, do your research and get a dog bred for that purpose .

Rodger. Understood and agreed.

[steveo]

I don't think I would try a collie cross because from my experience most of the ones I have been around just wanted to chase cars and herd the kids. Seemed very anxious around kids but what do I know. Have seen a short-hair lab cross that was a nice looking dog and a nice frame for multipurpose use.

[adriaticum]

If you want a dog for a given purpose, do your research and get a dog bred for that purpose.



Exactamundo.
Mutts can be cool but you don't exactly get predictable outcomes.