Buried Moose kill?

[Drillbit]

Found another moose kill yesterday, but this one has got me a little confused.

Saw ravens first, then the crime scene on the road.

Drag marks started 30 yards up the bank on the high side of the road. Steep
Drug down around around some bush and down onto the road.
Blood pool on the road like it was left there for awhile.
Then drug over the snowbank and about 10 yards down around, and under a tree.

Then Covered up?

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y414/Drillbit/DSC_0080_zpsc4bb467c.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Drillbit/media/DSC_0080_zpsc4bb467c.jpg.html)

Looks like big paws that did the burying (just above the 3 oclock in the pic) but the ONLY full tracks around it were fresh wolf tracks, covering everything. Oh and someone else looked at it before me, so boot tracks covered everything else.

The calf was still warm and it was -22C. None of the meat had been touched yet that I could see, but I didn't uncover it.

Thinking a bear or cougar?

Close up of the big marks that looked to be doing the cover-up

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y414/Drillbit/DSC_0079_zps6d631b92.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Drillbit/media/DSC_0079_zps6d631b92.jpg.html)

[butcher]

.....Cat.....

[Fisher-Dude]

Kitteh.....

[hunter1947]

There should be tracks around in the snow to tell what animal it is it could be a griz they are starting to wake up and come out now and then for short periods of time and yes bears do cover there prey..

[bowhunterbruce]

judging by the lack of evidence around the ass I would be inclinded to also say cat, dogs always go after the rear end first and they don't burry their food, considering its feb. the bears are still indoors .
bhb

[hunter1947]

judging by the lack of evidence around the ass I would be inclinded to also say cat, dogs always go after the rear end first and they don't burry their food, considering its feb. the bears are still indoors .
bhb

Bruce bears do come out and wonder around for a short time now and then during winter months then go back into there dens its been proven that they do ..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/DSC_0079_zps6d631b92.jpg

[Hillbros_96]

I would agree with a cat. Would a bear be awake enough to have enough energy to do that?

[digger dogger]

Cougar!!!!

[hunter1947]

Lets face it the tracks should be there and if it is a cat or a bear the snow will tell all there is lots of snow where the moose is barred by branches etc..

[two-feet]

Looks like grizz to me but there should be a trail in and out? I have seen grizz in the winter.

[604redneck]

I would also say there's a chance a grizz did that. I've seen fresh bear tracks first week of March while snow shoeing.

[1980skywalker]

Those look like awfully big claw marks, I know cats retract their claws when they walk but would they fully extend them to make claw marks that big to cover a kill? I think the claw marks are too big for a cat so I am going to guess it was a bear, a little scout around the vicinity of the kill would give you your answer.

[Drillbit]

Yeah, I should've climbed up the hill to the kill site, the dump site had too many wolf tracks covering everything up.

Was on a main logging road and didn't have much time between truck traffic.


I though bear at first, but the trail the wolves came in went down the hill into the christmas trees. It didn't seem deep enough for a heavy bear, I sunk through the tracks. Also I could've missed a cougar track in all the wolf tracks as they should've been close in size. Definitely no bear tracks, but the huge claw marks seem too big for a cat.

Also I was surprised the wolves didn't start eating it, it was still warm. Maybe whatever killed it chased them off

[davet]

Cougar paws are more round and those claw marks look straight across, So i think its a grizz. I would put up a camera and watch the action. Cool find.

[rocksteady]

My guess. 90% chance Cougar, 10% chance Grizz...

What MU was this in Drillbit? That may help with the decision...

[hunter1947]

Yeah, I should've climbed up the hill to the kill site, the dump site had too many wolf tracks covering everything up.

Was on a main logging road and didn't have much time between truck traffic.


I though bear at first, but the trail the wolves came in went down the hill into the christmas trees. It didn't seem deep enough for a heavy bear, I sunk through the tracks. Also I could've missed a cougar track in all the wolf tracks as they should've been close in size. Definitely no bear tracks, but the huge claw marks seem too big for a cat.

Also I was surprised the wolves didn't start eating it, it was still warm. Maybe whatever killed it chased them off


Bear tracks would be very noticeable if the bear was around the kill so its has to be a cat that covered the moose..

[tinhorse]

Set up a trail cam. What ever it was should be coming back tonight for a little snack....

[SingleShot]

It would be interesting to figure out what killed it. Cougar would likely have gone for the neck immediately whereas a bear might have pulled it down from the hinds. Drillbit, you mentioned this is the second moose kill you have happened across. Is there a thread regarding the first? Just curious because this stuff is interesting and not all that commonly seen.

[Drillbit]

It would be interesting to figure out what killed it. Cougar would likely have gone for the neck immediately whereas a bear might have pulled it down from the hinds. Drillbit, you mentioned this is the second moose kill you have happened across. Is there a thread regarding the first? Just curious because this stuff is interesting and not all that commonly seen.

This is the forth one I've found this year. Others were obvious wolf kills though.

I'm wishing I spent more time looking around now, I'll have to go back.

[moosecaller]

I don't believe a bears system can digest meat first thing out of the den let alone a quick wake up prior to spring un-denning, I know they have to purge their system with roughage prior to the tract getting back into working order. I would guess cougar and zero chance of a bear doing this due to the biology of hibernation.

[knighthunter]

Great pic's, thanks for shareing. First time I've seen anything like this. Wether in a pic or in real.

[Drillbit]

Great pic's, thanks for shareing. First time I've seen anything like this. Wether in a pic or in real.

I'll start doing better job taking CSI picks from now on then. Only reason I took pics on this one is I've never seen one covered up like that and not eaten and still warm. I wish I spent more time on it.....

[604redneck]

Maybe a cat kill that wolves chased the cat off then traffic scared the wolves off.....

[hunterdon]

As already noted, bears do not always sleep throughout the winter. My brother and I once came across a black bear walking through the woods in the middle of January in northern Ontario. Like minus 35 degrees. With careful examination, you should be able to identify the tracks nearby. That said, my guess would be cat. I have come across a fresh kill once, still warm untouched and covered with leaves. That's when I carefully looked in the bush only to see the big cat's face between the dark timber looking out at me. Cats will often make a kill in cool weather only to bury it until they are hungry.

Whatever It was/is, it almost certainly is aware of your presence. Not to scare ya, but always be alert and cautious when close to a kill. You just never know.:shock:

[Gumsehwah]

Set up a trail cam. What ever it was should be coming back tonight for a little snack....
THAT would be a very cool thing to do!

[Ambush]

May well have been hit by a truck and then claimed. The ravens do a great job of alerting all the nearby meat eaters.

I doubt that wolves would drag it unless it was right on the road.

[Drillbit]

May well have been hit by a truck and then claimed. The ravens do a great job of alerting all the nearby meat eaters.

I doubt that wolves would drag it unless it was right on the road.

Thought of that too, but the drag marks started way up the bank, then down across the road. Maybe got hit and ran up the hill to die, then was dragged to a safer place to eat. Appeared to be drug by the head

[Jagermeister]

I say scrap the wolf theory, the job is too neat for them. They would have devoured it and moved on leaving it uncouvered for the ravens. My initial guess would be bear, most likely grizzly since they are known to wake from a slumber and go look for a top-up to tide them over. That's not to say that blacks won't do the same, particularly if they were not packing adequate fat before denning up.
I'm sure that bears can digest whatever they eat whenever they eat. The reason that they hit the grass in the spring is for the fiber to clean out their colon which has been sort of dormant all winter. Presuming they did not rise during the interval.
Cougar, maybe, but then it could have been a wolverine too. They have that modus of operendi too.
My vote goes to wolverine.

[Walking Buffalo]

There is lots of competition between predators in the hills. This could be any combination of events.

This documentary is a great example of interactions between cats and dogs.

Cougar vs. Wolves http://vidto.me/wkvt8n2lkeu9.html

You'll have to deal with a pop up or two to watch it here. Click "proceed to video" at bottom, might need to do it twice, then click play.

[Drillbit]

Whatever It was/is, it almost certainly is aware of your presence. Not to scare ya, but always be alert and cautious when close to a kill. You just never know.:shock:

Yep, initial though was Sasquatch, so I was ready!!

Seriously though, I was hoping for a shot at a Wolf.

[Mishka]

Very interesting and a good discussion. Thanks for posting this.

[Drillbit]

I say scrap the wolf theory, the job is too neat for them. They would have devoured it and moved on leaving it uncouvered for the ravens. My initial guess would be bear, most likely grizzly since they are known to wake from a slumber and go look for a top-up to tide them over. That's not to say that blacks won't do the same, particularly if they were not packing adequate fat before denning up.
I'm sure that bears can digest whatever they eat whenever they eat. The reason that they hit the grass in the spring is for the fiber to clean out their colon which has been sort of dormant all winter. Presuming they did not rise during the interval.
Cougar, maybe, but then it could have been a wolverine too. They have that modus of operendi too.
My vote goes to wolverine.

Could they drag a calf moose 50 yards? Are they know to bury? It was mostly downhill, except for the bank to get back off the road. I wonder, as they also have similar tracks to a wolf. There were small and large tracks, maybe fronts and backs.....

Never thought of that one, but sounds like a good answer too.

I would've seen bear tracks if they were around, I wasn't in that much of a hurry. Had to be a cat that made the kill and buried it, and then got chased off by the wolves. I just wasn't sure if the big claw marks in the snow could be made by a cat.

[Drillbit]

One thing I just decided is that I'll always have a trail-cam in the backseat now to set-up when I find these things.

This one is too close to a mainline and a trail cam wouldn't last long there.

[Jagermeister]

Pound for pound, wolverine are probably the strongest of the predators that we have here in BC. Killing that calf moose and then dragging it some distance would be no problem for a wolverine. The length of the claw marks would be indicative of a wolverine. The fact that the wolves had been present but appear not to have touched the carcass suggest to me that it is a wolverine kill. The odor of wolverine tends to discourage other animals from noshing on the fare presented, ravens excluded.
If you have, set a trail camera on the kill, it would be interesting to see what turns up to dine.

[moosecaller]

A bears motility goes down to nothing during hibernation if they were to eat anything prior to un-denning it would not digest and would rot internally causing it to go septic killing the animal. They do not go to den up with anything in their stomachs, they live off the fat reserves. It was not a bear that killed or dragged this animal it would not have any motivation to do so. I would still go with cat.

[davet]

so you guys think a cougar could drag a 400lbs calf that far?

[Darksith]

Pound for pound, wolverine are probably the strongest of the predators that we have here in BC. Killing that calf moose and then dragging it some distance would be no problem for a wolverine. The length of the claw marks would be indicative of a wolverine. The fact that the wolves had been present but appear not to have touched the carcass suggest to me that it is a wolverine kill. The odor of wolverine tends to discourage other animals from noshing on the fare presented, ravens excluded.
If you have, set a trail camera on the kill, it would be interesting to see what turns up to dine.
lol...4olbs drags 400lbs...probably more like 600lbs.

[allan]

I have trail cam video of a cat burying its kill. When I inspected the kill site myself the claw marks were remarkably similar to your picture.
I would vote cat.
However I have never seen or taken pictures of a Wolverine doing the same thing so I'm not putting any money on it.
My friend once saw a cat kill a large blacktail only 30 yards in front of his truck. He said the Cat was able to pick it up and walk away with it like it was nothing. That example leads me to believe that a cat could easily drag a calf moose down hill.

[Laurence_Erickson]

find someone with hounds and go catch a nice kitty.

[Jagermeister]

lol...4olbs drags 400lbs...probably more like 600lbs.You're underestimating a wolverine. A small woverine is about 20+lbs, a large one can go in excess of 125lbs. Consider how much you can drag, then consider how much you could drag with 4 legs instead of two.

[Chaos]

A large male wolverine may go 70lbs I would guess cat

[dana]

Isn't it funny how all the houndsmen have said it is the result of a lion and yet lots of people who have never seen anything like this before think it is something else? hahaha.

[horshur]

here is a pic of what the claw marks look like when the cougar drags snow and anything else it wishes over the kill.....this was a female...... the kill a young buck mulie......

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y264/akdana/IMG_7962_zps8311cdf9.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/akdana/media/IMG_7962_zps8311cdf9.jpg.html)

[Drillbit]

find someone with hounds and go catch a nice kitty.

I told my buddy to "release the hounds!" but he's down and out sick.

[ACE]

Four claws in the claw marks, or five ?

[butcher]

It's a cat
Refer to post 1.

[guest]

PUSSY :mrgreen:

[kootenayelkslayer]

You're underestimating a wolverine. A small woverine is about 20+lbs, a large one can go in excess of 125lbs. Consider how much you can drag, then consider how much you could drag with 4 legs instead of two.

125 lbs?! No man, that's not even close. A big wolverine may be in the 50 lb range.

Anyway, pretty much looks like a typical cat kill I would say.

[Fisher-Dude]

Isn't it funny how all the houndsmen have said it is the result of a lion and yet lots of people who have never seen anything like this before think it is something else? hahaha.

Hehe, I've seen several cat kills back in my cat huntin' days. The fresher ones were, surprisingly, just like the pic that started this thread. ;)

[BlacktailStalker]

Four claws in the claw marks, or five ?

I was waiting for this, which is the answer.
A 150lb tom can drag a bull elk 50 yards if it wanted to. Esp in snow.
Examine the skull and back of the neck/ears for claw marks. If that is a calf the skull is likely crushed between the ears. The only hole in it is probably behind the short ribs, they usually just eat the organs (liver esp) on the first feed (which is a lot in a moose) and come back later to start on the hinds. If he comes back at all. If he's making an easy living, he may abandon it and walk 25-50kms.

[Fred1]

Im by far no cat expert, but I have seen the results of what a cat has done and it looked exactly like the pics in the first post. I'm betting 92.765% on the cat!!

[Darksith]

You're underestimating a wolverine. A small woverine is about 20+lbs, a large one can go in excess of 125lbs. Consider how much you can drag, then consider how much you could drag with 4 legs instead of two.
Haha, 125. Wanna bet?

[finngun]

wolverine--Weight:
24 to 40 lbs (11 to 18 kg):mrgreen:,,,,very strong animal..but not able to drag 400lb moose

[hunter1947]

Think about it cats cover there kill grizzly bears cover there kills the person that took these pictures said lots of tracks around the kill if there was a grizzly around and did claim this moose the tracks would be very noticeable 3 times bigger then that of a cat track would be no problems seeing the grizzly tracks so it was a cat that killed this moose..

[Drillbit]

Think about it cats cover there kill grizzly bears cover there kills the person that took these pictures said lots of tracks around the kill if there was a grizzly around and did claim this moose the tracks would be very noticeable 3 times bigger then that of a cat track would be no problems seeing the grizzly tracks so it was a cat that killed this moose..

Ya, had to be a cat. I would've seen bear tracks.

[Fella]

Whatever it was, that's a cool find, thanks for sharing!

[bigneily]

Regardless of who killed it I would spike up a trail cam and get some pics of the dinner partys attending guests.

[argyle1]

nope--there are no 125 lb wolverines--45 lb is a monster--it's a cat for sure, and the calf was prolly killed by a truck if not by the cat--wish you had inspected it, but thanks for posting

[two-feet]

I had no idea a cougar would leave such big scrape marks in the snow when it burried its dinner. Learn something new every day.
Wish we had more cats up north here.

[sawmill]

I had no idea a cougar would leave such big scrape marks in the snow when it burried its dinner. Learn something new every day.
Wish we had more cats up north here.

Takes a good big cat to kill and drag a calf moose,big hands too.When they spread their fingers wide they cover a good space.Hell,my tame cougar hound uses her toes like a cat,she can open up her front paws and use them just like a humans hand.

[curt]

Bear thats how they roll!!

[Drillbit]

I told my buddy to "release the hounds!" but he's down and out sick.

Haha, had to quote myself.....anyways UPDATE!

Apparently the moose kill picture and timeline was enough to get my buddy off the couch and the crew "released the hounds"!!!

Was a great skinning party tonight with a nice big TomCat!!

Not at liberty to publish pics or names, but cat it was.

[SingleShot]

We need to call you Sherlock. Not only did you find the perp but you brought him in!

[Drillbit]

Haha, no, all I did was find the crime scene.

The boys spent many hours, and lots of sweat and gas to catch up with the cat. I'm proud of them, but really, I didn't do much on this one.

[Gamebuster]

Hey drill bit, what region was this?

[Roe]

Great read, thanks all.

[Drillbit]

Hey drill bit, what region was this?

In Region 5.

[rbest]

I count 5 claw marks in the snow I think! Would that not be a bear? Don't cats only have 4?

[Drillbit]

I count 5 claw marks in the snow I think! Would that not be a bear? Don't cats only have 4?

Might've pawed the same spot twice, but one claw over to make it look like five.

This was definitely a cat. It was caught up with.

[BlacktailStalker]

You're not allowed to post a pic of the cat YOU found for them to kill ?
This is the lamest ending ever with no cat pic (poke)

[Drillbit]

You're not allowed to post a pic of the cat YOU found for them to kill ?
This is the lamest ending ever with no cat pic (poke)

Allowed?

Here's the cat.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y414/Drillbit/Image_zpse34bf40e.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Drillbit/media/Image_zpse34bf40e.jpg.html)