First gun recommendations…

[Witko]

Hey all,
So here's the deal… I'm taking my PAL this weekend and will take my CORE soon after that. My plan will be to get a gun fairly quickly and get as much range time in as I can before the fall seasons open up. My motivation in getting into hunting (at the ripe ol' age of 39) is purely as a food source, so I hope to be as diverse as I possibly can, here on Vancouver Island. I don't have very much expendable income so I'm really trying to maximize my budget. Because of this, my plan has been to get a Mossberg 500 combo kit with the rifled barrel. That would put me in a position to shoot everything from ducks, and upland to deer and (from as far as I can tell with research) possibly elk and black bear. My eyeballs nearly exploded out of my head today when I discovered the cost of sabot shells are around $3-$4 per round. Which is fine when you're actually hunting, but makes range practice a bit of a killer on the wallet.

I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that has experience with shooting sabot that might be able to recommend a more cost-effective way to get proficient with shooting slug. OR am I not headed down the right path with trying to make a shotgun operate as an all-in-one and would be wiser to just get a .270 or .30-06 for the medium game and save the duck/geese/upland for further down the road.

Any thoughts/inputs/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Keta1969]

I wouldn't say you're headed down the wrong path but you are limiting yourself as far as deer go. You should probably be looking for a rifle for deer(270 .308 30.06),these calibres because of the availability of ammo, and a shotgun for every thing else(should be able to find a cheap one used). If you're on a budget think used and with the best optics you can afford. Welcome to hunting

[250 sav]

It's not legal to shoot elk with slugs. I'd look into a 308, 30 06, or 270 for big game as ammo is common and is cheaper than most of the new calibers. get a 22 for small game and cheap practice then pick up $100 single shot shotgun from one theses sites or a gun show for the short term then go from there.

[longstonec]

Buy a Savage, or Remington, or Ruger. OR sign up to canadiangunnutz.com and buy a used rifle scope combo in one of these fine calibers!

.243
6mm
6.5x...
7mm-08
30-30
308
270
30-06

AND A .22 to practice practice practice!!!

or...

just shoot normal slugs from a smooth barrel.

[Johnny G1]

What's wrong with buying a lowly ole 303 to hunt deer and elk with if you are low on funds, and buy a cheapo shotgun for your birds.

[GotaGun]

First gun for hunting for a food source ?

First: Get a rifle to go after good sized animals deer/bear/elk etc.

Second gun: shotgun for ducks

Third gun: 22rimfire for grouse/ rabbits

[brian]

It doesn't seem so long ago that I was in your shoes... just a few years younger when I started. You are in for an amazing life altering learning experience.

A shotgun for a first island gun... its an interesting idea. In theory it would do you for birds and deer. My main concern with the idea would echo yours. I would really worry about being able to practice enough to be a confident and ethical hunter if I were in your shoes. Slugs will wallop you in both your pocket book and in your shoulder. I have been shooting a while now and if I am not careful I start flinching when shooting buckshot through my 12 gauge. I have to really dial back the amount I shoot through it at one time. Slugs are even worse than buckshot. I would shudder to think how miserable I would have been if this was the gun I chose to learn how to shoot with. Birdshot is fine, but buck and slugs are just a different beast. In the end I predict you would probably find yourself running to the gun store to find something easier on you, thereby not saving much in the way of cash.

Personally I recommend you pick up a 22 and learn how to shoot and worry about the big game rifle after you have a better idea of what you can handle. Going to the range with your 22 would be a great way to see what other guns are like. One commonality ranges seem to have is I meet genuine good people there. Often people are open to letting you handle or try out their rifles especially if you are new. At the very least it is a good place to go and talk guns.

[Witko]

Wow... awesome info. Can't thank you all enough for taking the time to shed some light. I forgot to mention that I've got a .22 Plinkster waiting for me the day I get my PAL and plan to shoot it by the bucket load! Hoping to do my part to control the island rabbit population and see if I can't find the odd grouse. And I've also started dabbling with archery and made the quick realization that any notions of bow hunting will have to be held off for a few seasons while those skills are honed.

Safe to say the research will continue for the next 6-8 weeks until that card shows up... then it'll be time to make that final decision.

Thanks for the warm welcome to HBC. I think I'm gonna like it here.

[Moose Guide]

I would suggest a .30-06, .308, .280, .270 or .25-06 If you look around you should be able to find a good one between $350 and $500. A good second hand pump shotgun will only cost about $150 if you look a little

[NorBC]

Go for a sks! Lots of bang for your buck, and very affordable. Could spend time at the range every day for penny's!

[Gateholio]

If you are short on cash, buy a cheap pump shotgun then look at one of the budget priced rifles like the Ruger American or Savage Axis. Or buy used. Lots of used guns online for sale. Just beware some guys want 110% of new !! :)

I wouldn't even consider using slugs to hunt with in BC.

Get a .308. Recoil is okay and plenty of inexpensive ammo for it.

[longstonec]

You could always hunt FOR slugs...

http://seattletimes.com/html/outdoors/2004443288_nwwnaturalwanders290.html

[russm]

I was going to recommend an axis too, they're inexpensive you can get them as a combo with a scope and in any calibre you want. I bought one minus the scope in .308, recoil is manageable but it could use a recoil pad if you're going to spend a good amount of time at the range.

[eaglesnester]

There is only one answer to your question as far as I am concerned. Get yourself a Remington 30/06 BDL. U will not be sorry, it is accurate, will kill anything in north america save the great bears and it a pinch it will do that to. It will take game farther out than U can shoot accurately. Ammo is relatively cheap and available everywhere, recoil is mild, what's not to like?

[snowplayaa]

Since you are on the Island, a .243 is also a great choice of caliber. Shoots super flat and will take down anything on the island, great for learning too as they are also really manageable in terms of kick. Easy to find in shorter barrel lengths and that can be a plus in the tight island rainforest. Everyone else's recommendations are also valid. You have lots of options and if you are on a budget this site, gun shows, the range and canadiangunnutz is where you will find value for $.

[avadad]

You can't beat the value of these guns for your first hunting rifle. http://www.cabelas.ca/product/26831/savage-axis-xp-bolt-action-rifle-w-scope .243, .270, .308, .30-06 all great calibers with the .243 being the lightest recoiling. Get a .22 to develop your skills. If you shop around you can find a used shotgun for around $250. Good luck

[604redneck]

Might want to find a way to get some expendable income lol hunting is not really a cost effective way to gather food.

[B-rad]

I bought the mossberg 500 field $329 from whole sale sports,,,,,,,it comes drilled and tapped for scope mounts,,,,,,3 choke sizes,,,,improved cylinder(shooting rifled slugs),,modified(steelshot),,,,full choke(all lead),,,,,,,I get between 3-4 inch groups at 75 yards,,,,true not as good as a rifle but very very doable on deer and black bear,,,,,,I buy the 2-3/4 Winchester super X rifled slugs Value pack from Walmart or Canadian tire,,,,,u get 15 slugs for 14 bux,,,,,I've shot deer every year with them,,,,,bear,coyotes,,,,everything in the area I live

[Spy]

Another vote for the 308. 243 is deadly in the right hands but one badly placed shot could have you searching for miles.I have heard of many lost black tails, even though the shooter swears he made a good shot with his 243. 308 is a good cal.

[russm]

Might want to find a way to get some expendable income lol hunting is not really a cost effective way to gather food.

You got that right, every season I get the "if you shoot something I want some meet, it's not like you pay for it" correction, the meat you're trying to mooch is probably the most expensive you'll eat after pre season costs, trip costs, equipment costs, butchering if you don't do it yourself, it works out to be far from free.

[Moe.JKU]

Like others have suggested the Savage Axis is a good deal, or you can upgrade a bit to the Savage 11/111 scope combo, or even the Savage 16/116 if you want stainless barrel. All good and good priced.My gun i use is a Savage 16/116 WW 30-06 shooting 180gr nosler partition.
Like others have said hunting is not really cost effective for meat.

[Witko]

Thanks again, all... for the thoughts and suggestions. I'm trying to not get too hung up on the gear. I find that's something that people tend to put too much time, energy and money into, in almost all pursuits nowadays, but I do want to maximize my dollars so I'm trying to be mindful about my purchases. My current thinking is to spend less on my rifle, more on my scope and as much as I can on ammo and time at the range. I'm leaning towards the Axis (in .270) and probably upgrade the stock to an aftermarket wood stock, not at all a fan of plastic and put as much as I possibly can into a Vortex scope (likely a Viper).

[hookedonblacktails]

Thanks again, all... for the thoughts and suggestions. I'm trying to not get too hung up on the gear. I find that's something that people tend to put too much time, energy and money into, in almost all pursuits nowadays, but I do want to maximize my dollars so I'm trying to be mindful about my purchases. My current thinking is to spend less on my rifle, more on my scope and as much as I can on ammo and time at the range. I'm leaning towards the Axis (in .270) and probably upgrade the stock to an aftermarket wood stock, not at all a fan of plastic and put as much as I possibly can into a Vortex scope (likely a Viper).

If I may make a humble suggestion, if you don't mind buying a rifle for $300-400 then spending extra on a wood stock, I know of a brand new old series weatherby vanguard blued synthetic in 270 for 420$ plus shipping and tax, then there is the boyds stock for $150 all said and done. This would be a set up to be very proud of for a lifetime. The vanguard is a very mis understood rifle, it's one of the best kept secrets of the rifle world, for rifles in that price range, it's design is based on the old sako. I'm not knocking your choice of rifles as the axis will work just fine....but most will agree these two rifles aren't even in the same ballpark. If you're trying to maximize your dollars please please just spend another 100$ on the rifle and get something really solid. Like I said, just my opinion

[Keta1969]

Nothing wrong with your ideas there. Would much rather have good optics on a cheap rifle than poor optics on an expensive one. 270 is a great calibre. As for the stock if money is an issue don't worry about for now, especially on the wet coast. If you really want a wood stock it's probably cheaper to start off with one than changing it after, unless you do the work yourself.

[eaglesnester]

308 is a great caliber, my one complaint with 7.62 by 51 is that it does not handle 200 grain bullets as well as a 30/06 can handle them. Don't get me wrong I like the 308, just as soon as Marstars gets in their new shipment of Norenco ChiCom GI M-14 copies I am going to order one and use it as my truck gun.

[Fella]

I bought a savage 111 in .30-06. It works great as a beginner gun, accurate with a nice pillowy recoil pad. I bought it used (15 rounds down the pipe) so I got a good deal on it. The stock isn't pretty but I can bash it around without getting rings or scratches so it works just fine as a bush gun. Buy one then save up for a really nice scope later on. The included scope should be sufficient for the first couple years of hunting, especially if you're like me and never have to use it :D

[fyffer]

pm me i got a unreal deal for u. in 308 win. in a new riffle.

[Gumsehwah]

Gatekeeper put me on to a really nice Lithgow .303. A real joy to shoot! :-)

[Surrey Boy]

Go for a sks! Lots of bang for your buck, and very affordable. Could spend time at the range every day for penny's!

I use my SKS, got myself a whitetail and black bear near Fort St John, so should kill whatever Van Isle has to offer. It has similar punch to a 30-30, and less recoil. There are endless accessories and modifications for it, and they're more accurate than you are.

$200 for the rifle (1953 or later Tula would be best) and $300 for a 1200 round crate of surplus ammo. I use Hornady SSTs for hunting, $40 for a box of 50.

On the Island you'll rarely get a shot far enough to need a scope, and the first time it fogs up you'll wish you never bought it.

[john.b]

I bought a savage 11/111 in 30-06 as well. No complaints on it so far.

[Surrey Boy]

Gatekeeper put me on to a really nice Lithgow .303. A real joy to shoot! :-)

Where is this gatekeeper that hands out SMLEs? I hate gates, but love guns.

[Singleshotneeded]

Get a used .270 or .308 bolt action which has plenty of oomph for deer/elk/moose and put the best scope you can afford on it...something like a Bushnell Elite or Vortex Viper. Get a good pair of binos in 10X42, something like Nikon Monarchs would do the trick, and you can get a good deal on Ebay or Amazon.com. For ducks and grouse get a used pump action 12 gauge that takes both 2.75 and 3" shells, either an 870 or 500. Shotguns are for birds...and an old pump will always go bang and you can get one cheaply. With a bolt action rifle, a decent pair of binos, and an old pump 12 gauge, you'll be set for anything. As you're mainly deer hunting at least at first, I'd recommend trying 140 grain Accubonds if you get the .270 or 150 grainers if you get the .308. Good bullet and shoots well in most rifles. For the shotgun, start with improved cylinder choke and #6 lead shot for upland birds, and go to modified choke as the shots get longer and they get skittish. I don't like steel, so for ducks I'd also use #6 in one of those lead substitutes like hevi-shot. Welcome to hunting! :-)

[BearSupreme]

Since you are on the Island, a .243 is also a great choice of caliber. Shoots super flat and will take down anything on the island, great for learning too as they are also really manageable in terms of kick. Easy to find in shorter barrel lengths and that can be a plus in the tight island rainforest. Everyone else's recommendations are also valid. You have lots of options and if you are on a budget this site, gun shows, the range and canadiangunnutz is where you will find value for $.

Yup .243 is an awesome round for the island. Ive killed 6 deer and 6 bears with it on the island, never had the animal go far. 95gr SST's are the best, im shooting 100gr partitions in it now and they are really really good too. More than enough for the island and its cheaper then higher caliber guns with very little recoil. I started hunting with Savage Model 11 in .243 and I still love that gun. You can get the gun and OK scope for 450 and its an absolute tac driver with every cartridge ive used in it. Best of luck, hunting is an amazing adventure and you will never stop learning and being amazed!

[Foxton Gundogs]

Thanks again, all... for the thoughts and suggestions. I'm trying to not get too hung up on the gear. I find that's something that people tend to put too much time, energy and money into, in almost all pursuits nowadays, but I do want to maximize my dollars so I'm trying to be mindful about my purchases. My current thinking is to spend less on my rifle, more on my scope and as much as I can on ammo and time at the range. I'm leaning towards the Axis (in .270) and probably upgrade the stock to an aftermarket wood stock, not at all a fan of plastic and put as much as I possibly can into a Vortex scope (likely a Viper).

OK so now you are into the $550 range and still have a $340 rifle. Don't get me wrong If you want to get into hunting for a low $ the Axis is great buy it keep it as kill stuff and upgrade when ready you will always have a good back up rifle in the Axis. I have a Axis in 223 and its a fun gun and shoots good out to 250 yds but I wouldn't consider 'upgrading it with add ons it is what it is. For the $550-$600 mark you can get a pretty good used wood on blue Ruger, Remington, Winchester etc and have something worth mounting the Viper on. JMHO

[fyffer]

If your still interested in my x bolt. 308 let me know.

[pescado]

In your situation I would go .308. Shop the EE hard and you will probably find something decent scoped.

[emerson]

Don't waste your money upgrading a factory plastic stock on a base rifle. You probably can't shoot well enough yet to need "lip stick on your pig". Island deer/bear certainly won't know the difference. You said budget is the issue. Buy the cheapest Axis you can find in 308; used is fine. Buy a used "quality scope"; Bushnell Elite/Vortex etc. ($250 new or so). Cheap ammo and practice. Bad shooting will lose many more animals than base model guns. When it's time to upgrade sell the whole thing to someone like you to start their own journey.

[Chopper]

Get a custom .338 lapua , Mcmillan A5, Bat action , Jewel trigger , 30inch barrel and top it off with a NF Beast 5-25x56mm


Get some 300gr VLD's rippin

[BiG Boar]

Bab you bought a gun yet?

[Lever Hunter]

Marlin makes excellent quality rifles available to consumers for a reasonable price ($330 to $400).
Check out the Marlin XL7 bolt action in .270 or 30-06 and the 336 Lever in 30-30 calibre.

[BillyGoatKid]

I am also looking for my first rifle. I grew up shooting my old man's .308 Mausers but am looking at a Marlin 30-30. I was getting all discouraged reading this thread until the last post. Would you scope the 30-30 or leave it as is. (the only rifles i have ever fired are the 308 Mauser 98k with and without scope)

[Gumsehwah]

Where is this gatekeeper that hands out SMLEs? I hate gates, but love guns.

He's one of the moderators, I think.
Anyway, I'm eternally grateful.

[hawk-i]

The savage axis, axisII, ruger american, and remingtion 783 are all very good accurate dependable rifles at budget prices....hard to go wrong with the 308 winchester cartridge as an all arounder with minimal recoil! :)

[r106]

I am also looking for my first rifle. I grew up shooting my old man's .308 Mausers but am looking at a Marlin 30-30. I was getting all discouraged reading this thread until the last post. Would you scope the 30-30 or leave it as is. (the only rifles i have ever fired are the 308 Mauser 98k with and without scope)

Nothing wrong with a marlin 30-30. As for scoping it, thats up to you. Learning to shoot iron sight off hand accurately is more of learning curve. But a good thing to learn. Also not having a scope will get you in the game cheaper and less to go wrong. Scopes seem to be a quicker learning curve and can be more accurate. Me personally I can pop an accurate shot off @ 100y quicker with a scope. But a 30-30 IMHO is a 100y maybe 150y with some leverevelution ammo.

I would recommend a bolt action for a first gun. They are very reliable, accurate and come in a wide variety of calibers that will extend the range and energy compared to a 30-30. Not that levers are not all of those things. I definitely won't talk someone out of a good lever.

If you stick to the major manufactures you can't go wrong. Remington, Winchester, Savage, Browning, Ruger, Weatherby or Tikka. For bolt actions. Winchester, Browning or Marlin for levers. I may have missed a few but you get the idea.

If you decide to scope it, don't cheap out get quality glass. Rifles can come and go easily, Glass IMHO is a little harder to sell. If you get quality glass you will keep for life.

[brian]

I am also looking for my first rifle. I grew up shooting my old man's .308 Mausers but am looking at a Marlin 30-30. I was getting all discouraged reading this thread until the last post. Would you scope the 30-30 or leave it as is. (the only rifles i have ever fired are the 308 Mauser 98k with and without scope)



The little levers are nice rifles to carry around. Marlin was bought by Remington a few years back and have had quality control issues. Apparently it is getting better, but there are a lot of lemons out there. So don't mail order one, go to the store and check it out for fit finish and function. I also wouldn't buy a used one of newer vintage. As for scoping it, that's up to you. You should have no issues with a scope on a 336. If you don't want to spend the money you could also go for a peep sight like a Williams. I find that they are a bit faster and easier to use than the factory irons. They would easily be good for the lever actions effective range.

[Peter Pepper]

With a long barrel shotgun you can hunt the special antlerless deer aka bow/shot gun (buckshot not slugs) zones all around Nanaimo. Lots of deer there, and you can shoot any deer you see.
I'm completely self taught at hunting and game processing. Been at it for 2 years, and tagged out both years, with about half my deer coming from the shotgun zone. Ducks are fun but not really productive enough for the time. Geese are more meat for time, but remember you will need a migratory waterfowl licence for them.
Just get out there and do it, you will not regret it!

[Lever Hunter]

I am also looking for my first rifle. I grew up shooting my old man's .308 Mausers but am looking at a Marlin 30-30. I was getting all discouraged reading this thread until the last post. Would you scope the 30-30 or leave it as is. (the only rifles i have ever fired are the 308 Mauser 98k with and without scope)
Billygoatkid i don't have a scope on my 30-30, I bought it for deer hunting at close range or for when I'm walking through the bush. It's relatively short, is very easy to pack around through the bush and I can get an accurate shot off very quickly. This rifle has been excellent for me, easily my favourite hunting rifle. I have thought about putting a raised scope mount on the rifle so I can still use the iron sights if I want but for now I'm just using iron sights.

I own two Marlins, both purchased within the last 2 years. Both have proven to be very good purchases, despite all the talk about Remington buying out Marlin and quality suffering. As far as I'm concerned, the negative reviews have not proven out, mind you there seems to be 10 good reviews for every bad one so it may be that people only like to talk about the bad ones.

[BillyGoatKid]

Lever Hunter - Thanks for the reply. Pending actually going to the store to see it in person I think I am fairly set on getting one now. Seems like its best suited for what I do, mostly stalking.

The main negative people seem to have with choosing the smaller calibre regarding range doesn't really apply as I can always borrow a 308 from pops if i am in open country.

[eaglesnester]

It's not legal to shoot elk with slugs. I'd look into a 308, 30 06, or 270 for big game as ammo is common and is cheaper than most of the new calibers. get a 22 for small game and cheap practice then pick up $100 single shot shotgun from one theses sites or a gun show for the short term then go from there.Cant shoot moose in BC with a shotgun either. Get yourself a cheap 12 bore mossberg pump and a nice Remington 700 in a 30/06.

["No Choke"Lord Walsingham]

With a long barrel shotgun you can hunt the special antlerless deer aka bow/shot gun (buckshot not slugs) zones all around Nanaimo. Lots of deer there, and you can shoot any deer you see.
I'm completely self taught at hunting and game processing. Been at it for 2 years, and tagged out both years, with about half my deer coming from the shotgun zone. Ducks are fun but not really productive enough for the time. Geese are more meat for time, but remember you will need a migratory waterfowl licence for them.
Just get out there and do it, you will not regret it!


Very good advice! Practice with that Plinkster as much as you like and get yourself the best Shotgun you can afford. Unfortunately, 6-8 weeks for a first time application PAL to arrive is a dream-world scenario. Wait times in excess of 100+ days are not at all uncommon now-a-days!

I was about to mention these Bow/Shot zones myself, glad to see Peter Pepper beat me to it. Shotgun is the way to go on the Island. Ferry rides are very expensive, LEH for Roosevelt Elk have quite the reputation of being hard to come by and there is no GOS for any species (such as Moose, et al. Mountain Goat Hunting can be great in region one but these are Hunts that occur in habitat that is seriously difficult to access, near impossibly so without boat and are not on the actual Island itself) for which Shotgun is truly unsuitable. Recoil from buckshot and/or slugs is really no where near as bad as it is often cracked up to be, in my experience. Mind you, we all experience recoil differently.

All the best of fortune to you in your Hunting endeavours!

[.30-06 camsavbc]

The advise I got here on the island a while back was to start with a .22 caliber rifle so practice can be affordable and it can be used for rabbits, squirrels etc. so I bought a Savage Mark II .22LR. Seen as you already have a .22 then you will be set to practice. I thought I could rush into this but found that hitting a rabbit sized target from 75 yards is harder than you think when you are first starting out. I shoot targets out in the bush at all different distances and have my scope zeroed at 75 yards. I would not want to go out and "practice" on any animals until I was confident that I could kill them with the first shot so off I go and practice practice practice. I now have confidence and know my rifle well at different distances and angles to go out and get some small game at the distances I am comfortable at. 100 yards for me right now would be my maximum yardage until I get more practice at the longer yardages. I then went and bought a Savage Axis .30-06 and have been practicing with it the same way I did with my Mark II. These are affordable rifles with affordable ammo. I use Federal Fusion for $23 a box for practice and have also tried other brands from 125, 150, 165 and 180 grain and so far I get the best groups with the 180 grain Federal Power Shok. I am 5' 11" and 195 lbs. with a stocky build so the recoil of the 06 is manageable but if I were 170 lbs. I would have gone with the .270 instead. I have shot about 200 rounds in the last couple of months again at different distances at my target stand at different angles and have my scope zeroed at 100 yards. To be honest, I would not take a shot outside of 200 yards yet as I still have some flyers out of that 8" circle but I see my progress and it is obvious to me now that what experienced guys have told me is to not shoot farther than your ability and I do know my limits. I just have to keep practicing and to be honest with myself and keep within my limits. I also have taken advice from HBC and from other experienced hunters and gone out in the bush and looked for the poop and followed tracks which goes hand in hand with the shooting practice. You can't have one without the other. What I have learned is that hunting is a lifestyle and a commitment, not a weekend hobby. I cannot wait to go out this weekend to get my shooting practice while my family picks berries (and garbage!) and then we all get to look for poop and trails! I hope you get your PAL soon so you can practice practice practice which will enable you to self sustain and enjoy the wilderness as I recently have. Cheers, Cam.

[.30-06 camsavbc]

Sorry about the ramble but this is the first year I have shot a rifle since the late 90's when I first got my PAL and I thought I could just go out and shoot game instantly just because I could buy a gun. I now know better. Witko's post reminded me of how I thought it would be after I got my PAL renewed. I prefer practicing in the bush as that is where I will be hunting and I get to practice different shots from the standing or kneeling position. The range would be good for sighting in but I don't plan on bringing my sand bags and a table with me in the bush! I just bought an extendable bipod as out at 200+ yards I cannot keep steady enough to keep within my circle while standing. Also this way I am learning windage and real life shots and with different light levels and shadows etc. I will also be taking my oldest son with me and want him to learn how to ethically take an animal. I am sure addicted to the process and I hope it will pay off this upcoming season.

[Singleshotneeded]

Remember that under stress, when you've spotted a prime game animal, you're only half as accurate, (the first few times), as you are when you're nice and relaxed and shooting paper. It's great to see a new hunter practicing and admitting he's not fond of recoil. The odd flyer might be when you get tired of the recoil after awhile and give in a bit to flinch. Just an idea, try target shooting with cheap 150 grain ammo that your rifle likes...Fusion shoots well in most rifles, and see if your groups tighten and your "flyers" disappear. The 150 grain ammo will give you 17.5 ft-lbs of recoil versus 20.5 ft-lbs for 180 grain ammo in the 30.06, and you'll notice the difference. If you find that you're shooting a lot better with the 150 grain cartridges, then consider hunting with either Barnes TTSX or Federal Trophy Copper in 150 grain...either one will handle a moose after hitting a leg bone as well or better than traditional 180 grain lead bullets. The Barnes TTSX shoots .4moa in my glass bedded '56 Husky 30.06...I'd be inclined to try their ammo first.

[REMINGTON JIM]

I would suggest a .30-06 -.308 - 7mm-08 -.270 If you look around you should be able to find a good one between $350 and $500. A good second hand pump shotgun will only cost about $150 if you look a little

Good Advice ! Ammo is well priced for these 4 cartridges too ! :wink: RJ