The Bison Adventure of January 2014

[Darksith]

It all started on the day the LEH's came out in 2013. We were fairly successful, as our group of 4 family members drew a group moose, a doe mulie, and a coveted bison tag. The fall was amazing for our group even though I only got to hunt 2 days due to the fact that my wife had just given birth to our 2nd baby boy 2 weeks before the hunt. See
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?99290-The-Adventures-of-one-Dark-Sith!!&highlight=adventures+darksith for that story. The planning immediately began, first thing on my list was to get tracks for the Rhino. I have always wanted them, and this was the excuse I could use to convince the wife to let me buy them. So off to Alberta I went to buy a new to me truck and the tracks.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/008_zps9587ce32.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/008_zps9587ce32.jpg.html)
The snow finally came to kamloops and I was able to install and test out the new tracks on my ride.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/IMG-20140101-00145_zpsfb1e1cbe.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/IMG-20140101-00145_zpsfb1e1cbe.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/IMG-20140101-00132_zpsbc19008a.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/IMG-20140101-00132_zpsbc19008a.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/IMG-20140101-00131_zps84b9efda.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/IMG-20140101-00131_zps84b9efda.jpg.html)
They worked great and I was very happy as to how they preformed. So now it was simply a waiting game. The planning was done, I had a bunch of logistical obstacles to overcome, but the hard part was basically complete. I bought a couple used older sleds rather than renting new ones, a decision that forced me to wonder if I had made a poor decision or not. We'll see about that later on in this story ;)

[Rhyno]

More...more!

[250 sav]

I've been waiting for this story

[andrewscag]

Is that one of the used sleds in front of your Rhino? If so, I think it was a poor decision ;-)

[Darksith]

So the time came for us to leave and off we went. It was 4:20am when we hit the road.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/768_zps86fa3b77.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/768_zps86fa3b77.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/767_zps7bbe54dd.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/767_zps7bbe54dd.jpg.html)
It was amazing at the difference in the amount of snow once you crossed the rockies. Here is before or on the BC side
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/777_zps2f897cb7.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/777_zps2f897cb7.jpg.html)
and here is once we got across
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/778_zps94679782.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/778_zps94679782.jpg.html)

[Darksith]

We originally had planned to make the trip from kamloops to pink mountain in a day and a half, giving us plenty of time to unload and get ready for day 1 of the hunt, but at the last minute we decided to make the trip in a day to gain a day of hunting. As we made our way down the road towards the pink mountain ranch, we stopped to chat with 1 group that had a calf bison down on the side of the road, they told us that the bison were finally starting to move and they had seen 8 that day and 4 the previous. We were stoked and became very excited to get out there the next morning. We asked where they got it and they were fairly vague but said way back in there, I asked if they were as far as rob lake and they said no. We carried on and arrived at about 10pm at pink mountain ranch. There was a few moments of panic when we couldn't locate the keys to all of the machines and the locks on the chains, but after a phone call and a thorough search we found them in a boot!

Day 1 brought a beautiful sunrise and we waited until dawn before we headed out. It didn't take long before one of the sleds overheated. We had barely made it to the end of the airstrip at the ranch. We parked it then bumped into another group coming up behind us. We started chatting and discovered it was Mik from the site. We chatted some more and his group graciously let us go first after he broke out the cold start to get the 2nd sled going...so now we had 1 sled and 2 guys in the rhino. The morning was beautiful, it was about -8, a gorgeous day we were excited to be getting out. We took our time, looked for fresh tracks and were just happy to start to get the lay of the land.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/787_zps2e67c4cd.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/787_zps2e67c4cd.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/789_zps0aea2a34.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/789_zps0aea2a34.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/790_zps1230048b.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/790_zps1230048b.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/491_zps04ccbb0f.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/491_zps04ccbb0f.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/796_zps9551ea9a.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/796_zps9551ea9a.jpg.html)

[325]

Keep it coming...!

[Darksith]

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/797_zps36da913a.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/797_zps36da913a.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/797_zps36da913a.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/797_zps36da913a.jpg.html)
The plan was to go to the back of the MU just so we could see what was there and try to narrow down where we would spend the majority of our time or how to hunt the mighty Bison. We came into one clearing and I started to wonder why the Rhino was pulling me into the soft stuff on the drivers side. If you get the one set of tracks into the soft stuff obviously it will pull you in, but I corrected the position of the rhino but that didn't fix the problem. I looked out and back and Im sure my jaw hit the ground. To my surprise, the rear track was dragging behind the machine! I pulled out into the middle of the trail and got out flabbergasted. Day 1, breakdown #2. We examine the situation, figure out that the nut that holds the hub on had spun off. WTF, but after a bit more looking we realized we had all the pieces still, and it should go back on.
<a href="http://youtu.be/NfT7J0mdvnQ" target="_blank">
http://youtu.be/NfT7J0mdvnQ
repair it we did, and onwards we went. It crossed our minds to turn around, but we were quite confident that our repair would hold, so deeper we went. It was really warming up, and that would be a sign of things to come, although we didn't realize it yet, we most certainly enjoyed the gorgeous weather. We came upon a beautiful opening and we stopped to have some lunch and do some glassing. We still hadn't seen any fresh sign, and we were kind of looking for a gut pile from the boys with the calf that we bumped into on our way into the ranch. Seeing as how it was still day 1, we were more interested in learning the terrain and trails than anything else.

[Darksith]

http://youtu.be/Dp9BmT1dl9Q

[Darksith]

http://youtu.be/y6Cq6cunluY

[Darksith]

Day 1 came to an uneventful end. We didnt see any fresh sign, we got the 1 sled that overheated in the first 10 minutes back to camp and repaired, and we were hopeful that all of our mechanical issues were behind us. Later that night we realized that a bag was missing, and just not any bag, the bag with the tag, and a wallet! well that pretty much narrowed down where we were going tomorrow. We had a new plan, I would ride the main trail in the rhino and the sleds would dodge down any and all side trails looking to cut a fresh track.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/803_zps9bb0f7ad.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/803_zps9bb0f7ad.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/804_zpse1a04917.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/804_zpse1a04917.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/806_zps8c763c49.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/806_zps8c763c49.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/807_zps6a16389b.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/807_zps6a16389b.jpg.html)
Day 2 started off with a few jokes and stories in the cabin. We were confident that our equipment problems were behind us as long as we were able to find our bag with the tag. We had spoken to the groups around the ranch the previous night and no one had seen it so we knew it had to be out there as we had gone farther than anyone else.

http://youtu.be/MS606XiMcDM

[Darksith]

Day 2 ended with no fresh sign, there was another group in camp that had been successful. We stopped to check out their animal. Was already skinned out and hanging so I didn't bother snapping any pictures. We talked to them about where they had got it, and we had also heard from the local trapper as to where they had been. He told us that the Rhino wouldn't make it in that area, an area known as caribou flats. It was north of the ranch and outside of the MKMA so I was confident that I could get in there one way or another. We then had a great visit with Mik from here, and he mentioned that it was his last day tomorrow, and asked if we wouldn't mind giving him the chance to get into that area first. We gladly obliged and wished him luck. Back down the halfway trail we planned to go for day 3, hoping the best for Mik and his group. Seeing the Bison in camp was a great thing, and we knew that it didn't matter where you were, all one needed was to cut a fresh track or find fresh sign and ones luck could change in an instant. Heres a few more pics from day 2.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/809_zps0ff26a73.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/809_zps0ff26a73.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/811_zps507129a2.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/811_zps507129a2.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/812_zps43920132.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/812_zps43920132.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/813_zps3884a921.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/813_zps3884a921.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/815_zpsc7bf8e37.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/815_zpsc7bf8e37.jpg.html)

[adriaticum]

Good stuff sith, keep er coming!

[adriaticum]

So whats happening, you didn't get a bison?

[Fred1]

Lmao! The look on that dudes face after the events of day one is great! Needs a caption!

[Buck]

Wow have stood at all those places.Your right all of a sudden your luck will change.

[VancouverSkiBum]

tagged! good story so far!

[markomoose]

Ah come on don-t leave us hanging!!

[bowhunterbruce]

and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BiG Boar]

Then what happened!

[Darksith]

I forgot to add the highlight of day 2...

http://youtu.be/QBF8ysdRs_M

[Darksith]

Day 3 had us once again on the halfway trail. There was so much old sign, and it hadn't snowed for so long it was definitely getting frustrating. I sat at the flats and decided to just wait and watch. There was so much sign around this area, but nothing fresh that was for sure. I just glassed glassed glassed. I did spot a large band of sheep. I sat and watched them for a while, while I waited for a bison to step out of the timber. Sorry for the poor vid quality, apparently my video cam doesn't like to look through my spotter, but I did manage a few glimpses for everyone. I should of had my phone, but since there is cell service in that valley now I refused to take it out of principal due to the fact that I get about 20-30 emails a day from work whether Im working or not, and I have a hard time not dealing with them if I see them.

http://youtu.be/pyYqPM30cRo
Everyone we talked to was in the same boat. To top that off, it was getting so warm. I think the highest temp we saw was around 12C, with an average of 8C for at least 3 days. Needless to say if there was a fresh track, it would look old very quickly if you weren't on it first thing in the morning. We went down the halfway until about 11am, then decided it was time for us to head north towards caribou flats where we knew there was a heard of animals. Mik would of been on his way out by now if he wasn't successful. So off we went. Of course Mik was not the only group up in there, so we were late to the party, but the other guys we talked to hadn't seen any animals or sign either.

[riflebuilder]

Great adventure...keep it coming
r

[Darksith]

We decided to head further north after we took a wild guess as to where the successful group had actually gotten their bison, so we found some seismic lines and headed past caribou flats, and possibly looking for a way to get to lily lake. We found some great spots but no sign, so the next day it was back to caribou flats. We did stumble upon these boys

http://youtu.be/EXpeRQJFZVM
was nice to watch them for a while, but then it was time to get back to looking for the elusive bison track. That was one of the hardest things I found on this hunt, was we were hunting tracks more than animals it seemed. But thats what everyone recommended, so thats what we did. We followed the successful groups tracks, but the snow was almost gone and once we got to the last creek crossing we decided it was time to stop chasing those boys. The creek had opened, I am positive I could have gotten across it with the rhino, but if something happened to the machine on the other side there might not be getting it back, and that wasn't a risk we were willing to take. Besides, we were getting rather close to the boundry between A+B ;). It also seemed like everyone who got that draw had taken Big Boars advice and showed up late. When we got there I believe there were 3 other groups at the ranch, it seemed like there was double that all of a sudden. We met a lot of other groups, all seemed to be nice guys, but no one was seeing any fresh sign. The moral around the ranch wasn't getting better to put it nicely. There were even a group of locals that showed up to go recreational sledding out past robb lake, they only made it a day before they pulled out due to a lack of snow.

The wife is getting on me, back to the family...too be continued later tonight :)

[andrewscag]

Great read.

[BiG Boar]

Come on! Show us them horns!!!

[adriaticum]

Sith , I dub thee the "Drama Queen" of HBC.

[hunter1947]

Story and videos are nice to see and read looking to see more of your trip in the days to come :wink: its the sucks about your break down.

[Darksith]

We decided it was time to head north again. There was just so little sign and so much traffic that we knew we could get away from the crowds if we took the 2 bit trail north towards lily lake. There are a lot of nice swamps and cuts up that way, and although we didn't see a ton of sign, we didn't explore everything. So off we went at first light. We got up the 2 bit about 15km when all hell broke loose! We got out to check some fresh tracks and when we were walking back to the rhino I noticed something didn't look right. One of the tracks off quilter. Upon further examination we determined that the bearings on the axle were going. Not good! We attempted to tie the track straight hoping it would get us home, it didn't get us far. So we pulled the track off and with me hanging off the opposite side of the rhino attempted to keep that hub off of the ground. Well that worked for about 800m, then the other rear track fell off!

http://youtu.be/ykNfhUGVUCU
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/856_zps8c2841f7.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/856_zps8c2841f7.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/858_zps4df2e1e0.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/858_zps4df2e1e0.jpg.html)

[Caribou_lou]

Sounds like a rough go. We all have had hunts where it seems nothing is going right. Hope you kept at it!

[Darksith]

so this is the sled we built to get the rhino home. We did a quick 20' test before we strapped it all down and it worked beautifully.

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/833_zps129226c9.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/833_zps129226c9.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/834_zps076e5467.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/834_zps076e5467.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/835_zps1693d0a0.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/835_zps1693d0a0.jpg.html)
Unfortunately due to the warm weather, after we strapped it all down the snow was simply too soft and the front tracks didn't have enough solid under them for this to work. To add to that, one of my uncles doesn't handle stress very well and he was making us very nervous so we sent him back to camp to relax while we came up with plan C. We stripped our sleigh from under the rhino and decided that we would put the track that fell off on day 1 back on, but not via a bush fix. We would then build a single skid under the axle that had the bad bearings and have it drag out the back of the rhino in the hopes that the friction out the back would keep the log pointed in the right direction, and not get hung up over and over which could do more damage or even simply prevent us from getting the rhino home. The keeper nut had spun off on day 1, and it spun off again due to the extreme force it was under. So we sent the stress case to town on to get us the proper socket, and a few other items that we determined we would need to get the third track on. We got the single skid built and attached and went home. It was simply a waiting game now until we had the right parts to get the one track back on. So we get back to camp and start talking to some of the other groups, and we discover that the day before there had been a couple kids from one group up a tree watching some bison right out of camp, and we had actually driven by them but they were out of sight for us and hadn't crossed the trail. So we had been within 150m of a group of 5 bison was the story! Are you kidding me! So while the one uncle went to town we were taking the sleds hunting to go look for these bison. The crazy thing is is that we were talking to the father of the group that day who was on our side of the valley, and he knew the bison were just over there and didn't say anything or go after them. Anyway we are now about 36h behind a group of bison, closer than we have ever been but still so far away. The next morning we gear up with snow shoes and sleds and hit the trail. We still don't know exactly where the bison were, so we take a guess and head out on foot hoping to cut a track, but its still so warm that a 36h track looks ancient. We are unable to locate any tracks and we still don't have a very good description of where we should be hunting. Get up ontop of a rock slide and we sit and glass for a while. We watch a bunch of moose down in the valley, but still no bison. At about 2pm the phone rings and the uncle is back with the parts and tools. We decide that priority #1 is to get my machine back, then we can get back to hunting, so we head back to camp and gear up and head back to the machine. With a little luck, a little ingenuity and a lot of humming and hawing we manage to get the 3rd track back on the machine properly. With the sun down, the temperature drops which helps firm up the snow. Now we are fairly confident that as long as the snow is firm enough this actually might work. The plan is slow and steady, don't stop if I get going as momentum is our friend.

http://youtu.be/h6KSxumHLx4

[Darksith]

I won't post the video of me driving the machine back due to all of the profanity but I was pretty excited that our fix was working, and I threw the slow and steady out the window and just gave er. Top speed with a log for a wheel was 41km/h with an average speed of 31km/h. Only one spot did I have to stop and get the winch out to get up and over a little hill, and we had the machine home in about 55min from time of departure.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/866_zpsbca44097.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/866_zpsbca44097.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/867_zpsb7ec20bf.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/867_zpsb7ec20bf.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/526_zpse06b7f64.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/526_zpse06b7f64.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/527_zpscffb7562.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/527_zpscffb7562.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/531_zpsd64931d2.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/531_zpsd64931d2.jpg.html)

[Darksith]

With the Rhino back at camp the mood lightened considerably. Was a big relief to know that I was able to get my machine out of the bush without a helicopter bill! We had a superb fish dinner that night and a few too many drinks and then chatted with the group that had watched us drive by the bison. We decided to team up and do a push thinking that the bison were hunkered down in a thick stand of spruce. We all met up in the morning and did the push, but we didn't even cut a track. I still wonder if we were being told the truth or what, but it seemed like a lot of effort to team up and do a push without being certain that the bison had at least been there 3 days ago now. My uncles were pretty much done at that point. The weather had not co-operated, to say the bison were scarce was an understatement and no one else was having any luck either. I did show the group we teamed up with a few fresh tracks the day that we had to return to the broken rhino, but they told us they followed the tracks and that they were moose, but looking back I suspect that they were wrong, and the bison had left the stand that we pushed. If we didn't have a broken machine out in the middle of nowhere I would have been on those tracks myself, but it just seemed that the stars weren't going to align. So we packed up and pulled out of camp on the 3rd to last day of the season. All in all, I will not be putting in for a january bison hunt again, I think there is simply too much pressure prior to that, and if I want to get lucky, I don't want to do it on the last round of 200+ tags issued. It was a great adventure though, I learned a lot, and I wouldn't hesitate to bring the rhino with tracks back into that situation. I would however spend a bit more money on the front end and redo things like bearings, and I will be changing out the axles on my machine to a cotter pin style keeper nut rather than a bang and bend into a groove style. That caused us the most problems, and if that track handn't of fallen off the 2nd time it would of saved us days and stress. Sorry for not being able to post horns, but the story and adventure was filled with enough drama that I figured I would share it.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/865_zps11189fa4.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/865_zps11189fa4.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/864_zps2ede5550.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/864_zps2ede5550.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/520_zps2284bfa4.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/520_zps2284bfa4.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/512_zpsa8de8fe6.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/512_zpsa8de8fe6.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/515_zpsf911f5d7.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/515_zpsf911f5d7.jpg.html)

[monasheemountainman]

too bad man, dang I would be putting a few bullets through that rhino! nothing worse than non stop gear failures! you worked hard though!

[Rob]

Sounds alot like our trip at the beginning of Jan. We broke the trail heading up 2 bit going to Caribou flats. saw some old sign but that was it. there was a couple of older fellows who were camped up there, we saw there camp but never ran into them, long way to go just to go snowmobiling lol

[adriaticum]

Thanks for a good report.

[250 sav]

Wow did Mr. Murghy ever screw you guys on that adventure!

[markomoose]

What a bummer !Mechanical issues can sure damper the mood when you are way out there!Good on you fellas for persisting.Question:Would you try this hunt earlier in the season??

[Darksith]

What a bummer !Mechanical issues can sure damper the mood when you are way out there!Good on you fellas for persisting.Question:Would you try this hunt earlier in the season??
yeah, I will continue to enter in the bison draw, but I won't be putting in for january. The january hunts have the lowest odds so if its just getting drawn you want then thats the time to do it, but i would imagine the success rate in the january hunts is considerably lower than in the ealier hunts when the animals are less stressed. Also as the snow pack builds, its gets heavier/deeper the more north and west you go, so the animals leave those areas for greener pastures, which puts them into higher hunting pressure areas. From all of the intel I gathered the bison in the fall are for the most part in the back of the MU (farthest west) as that is where the least amount of pressure is due to the vehicle restrictions. Once the snow flies snowmobiles are able to get to the back area where those resident bison are not really concerned too much about hunters. As the season progresses those animals see more and more pressure which will change their habits, and then once the snow is deep enough they will leave those areas. No one I talked to that went to rob lake or past saw any animals or sign even, same with our experiences north of caribou flats around lily lake. So to have the ability to use horses to get you to the back of the MU or to be there with sleds as early as possible to get to the back would give you the best chance of success. Not to say the january hunt is a waste of time, we just got unlucky and beat down by mechanical issues, warm weather, lack of snow and the creeks really started running. The animals would come out of the forest at night, and get back in before dawn, and we just didn't cut any fresh tracks, or if we did we were not able to identify them as fresh due to the fast melt. We didn't encounter 1 pile of poop that would of really got us re-energized. We covered a ton of ground, but the one thing we should of done and never did was head to the south of the MU down a different road. We should of done that, but the other thing I had looming over me was a wife at home with a 4month old baby and a 3 year old and she wasn't super stoked on me being gone. If we had the desire to stay the last 2 or 3 days thats probably where we would of gone.

[Blainer]

Sorry to hear of all your mishaps.
Credit given for effort!
Should have been titled "Million Dollar Bison", as lot's of expense incurred.
I imagine that's hunting.
Thanks for sharing story & better luck next year.

[srupp]

SITH..SORRY...ABOUT your shitty luck absolutley brutal..I have an honest question...what the AflAck..happened with the track system?..tracks themselves?. Or your basic machine.? 3 different tracks fell off broke...?

II HAVE access to a set for my HOnda 500 quad,.however reading your nightmare has caused me serious jitters..

Steven

[kennyj]

Great story, photos and video. Thanks for sharing your adventure.
kenny

[REMINGTON JIM]

SITH..SORRY...ABOUT your shitty luck absolutley brutal..I have an honest question...what the AflAck..happened with the track system?..tracks themselves?. Or your basic machine.? 3 different tracks fell off broke...?

II HAVE access to a set for my HOnda 500 quad,.however reading your nightmare has caused me serious jitters..

Steven


Sorry bout your storey too ! :cry: But WHY all the trouble with the tracks and the brgs etc ? Old equipment - lack of service ? - OR just BAD LUCK :confused: Just wondering ! RJ

[Darksith]

SITH..SORRY...ABOUT your shitty luck absolutley brutal..I have an honest question...what the AflAck..happened with the track system?..tracks themselves?. Or your basic machine.? 3 different tracks fell off broke...?

II HAVE access to a set for my HOnda 500 quad,.however reading your nightmare has caused me serious jitters..

Steven
Nothing was wrong with the tracks themselves, they held up beautifully. The problem was the nut on the axle. I am not a mechanic, but I do my best to do all my own work. We should of realized the problem before we left kamloops as my uncle picked up a washer from the floor of my garage. I assumed it was a spare part as I had to change the main drive sprocket on every track as I bought them used from a JD Gator, and the bolt pattern didn't match up with the rhino. So anyway, I had all of these spare parts (hardware) from that change over. I had changed both axles on the machine prior to this adventure as I am pretty hard on my equipment and I had beat them up (torn boots and broke CV's) hauling all of the animals out of the cut blocks in the fall. I had ordered the axles at different times, from different vendors, and they weren't the same. One axle had a nut with no washer and you beat a part of it into a groove on the axle to keep it in place. The other axle had a washer and a nut and a keeper cotter pin. I missed the washer on the 2nd axle (musta fell outta the package without me noticing), which allowed the nut to back off slightly which allowed some slop between the hub and the axle shaft. This must of allowed just enough movement to put extreme force on that keeper pin and sheer it off. On day one we fixed it, but had to use haywire instead of a cotter pin. We used 4 wraps of haywire, but again missed the washer. So thats why that track came off twice (exact same problem repeated). On the 2nd fix my uncle realized he had the washer in his pocket from my garage floor! And we went and bought new cotter pins as well as proper sockets to re-torque it down. The other track that was replaced by the log was simply bearings. I now know, but didn't think to change or replace the bearings when I changed out an axle, but I have learned that lesson now...and I didn't realize how much force it took to turn those tracks. I burned at least 2-3 times the amount of fuel as with tires, so the forces exerted are extreme. So if I hadn't of missed that washer, and I had of changed all of my bearings for the small amount it would of cost me I probably wouldn't of had any issues. I learn everything the hard way, and this was just another lesson for me. I probably lost a seal which led to the bearing failure.

The only other reason I can think of that could of caused the bearing issues is that I let my uncle do a lot of the driving as he enjoyed it. But he didn't have the experience to tackle some of the situations and he did slam that right rear track a few times cutting a corner around a tree and hanging it up, and again going over a log a little too fast so the track didn't climb up and over, it just hung up and we came to an instant stop. So he could of caused a flat spot on a bearing which in turn caused the failure. Whether changing the bearings or not would of prevented that failure who knows, but I might of well have.

Another lesson I learned, is even though running tracks, one should bring a spare tire or 2! If I had of lost a front track I would of been in big trouble, and having a spare tire even sitting on the trailer back at camp might of been a life saver. Lots of things to learn with these new large machines, and Im not done customizing mine, the list keeps growing :)
We did have 3 machines still in operation after the rhino was out of commission, but we were so done with breakdowns that we decided to call it a trip

[srupp]

Thank you informative ...lessons learned huh...great outing though...appreciate the hints on the track issues...

cheers

Steven

[panhead]

Sounds like you guy's should pack a complete machine shop and parts dept. with you. What a bummer, but good to see you persevered and enjoyed yourselves. Hope you have better luck next time ... you deserve it.

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There are only 2 paths to happiness in life. Stupidity or exceptional wealth.

[Caveman]

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/811_zps507129a2.jpg[/URL]
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/812_zps43920132.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/812_zps43920132.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/813_zps3884a921.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/813_zps3884a921.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i472/GNalleweg/815_zpsc7bf8e37.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/GNalleweg/media/815_zpsc7bf8e37.jpg.html)

I know that spot. Any caribou in there? I've seen them every time I gone in there

[Big Lew]

Thanks for posting your fantastic adventure. You say you're not really mechanically minded, but you and your crew proved otherwise. Great job in adjusting to the circumstances. Of course it would have been icing on the cake if you had scored an animal, but that's something to look forward to next time.
Did you by chance see anyone else out there using a snow track equipped 8x8 argo? What are your thoughts about their ability and reliability in the country you traveled? Your machine is likely faster and quieter, but do you think it would handle deeper snow? What are your thoughts?

[Caveman]

Sorry to hear about all the mechanical issues. Still a great adventure when you venture back there

[Gs31]

Great story and helluv-an adventure!

[Darksith]

I know that spot. Any caribou in there? I've seen them every time I gone in there

when we got down into that valley there was a ton of sign. I would of said it was elk not caribou from the turds, but there was some serious traffic in that valley at some point, not bison though thats for sure. Thats a doozey of a hill, good thing there is another way around as that slope we were on top of was completely bare and we were questioning taking a sled down it.

[OutWest]

Great read. A little rodeo always makes for some fun. You guys made the best of it and I think your sig says it all. Thanks for sharing!

[hunter1947]

You put a lot of thoughts in to how to make something work to get this track runner out its the Pitts you had mechanical problems with the rino track runner and nothing to show for it.

The positive note is that you learned what to do and what not to do on a bison hunt in the years to come ,,wish you better luck in the years of hunting with whatever you use in the future.

Your pictures and story where a good see and read thanks for taking the time to lay all down on the way your hunting adventure took place..

[Caveman]

when we got down into that valley there was a ton of sign. I would of said it was elk not caribou from the turds, but there was some serious traffic in that valley at some point, not bison though thats for sure. Thats a doozey of a hill, good thing there is another way around as that slope we were on top of was completely bare and we were questioning taking a sled down it.

......and the swampy area at the bottom nicely frozen. The one picture where one of you is pointing, is actually pointing to where I got mine in 2007, just to the base of the hill, west from where you're checking track

[Darksith]

Did you by chance see anyone else out there using a snow track equipped 8x8 argo? What are your thoughts about their ability and reliability in the country you traveled? Your machine is likely faster and quieter, but do you think it would handle deeper snow? What are your thoughts?
We didn't see anyone in an argo. As far as what it would handle, it all depends on the snow conditions. If you have light fluffy snow and lots of it, 20"+ then the rhino is gonna have some issues in some places me thinks. If the snow is hard it will pretty much go anywhere, and if the snow is wet and soft it will eventually high center. As for using the Rhino with tracks again, I would most certainly, but it definitely has some draw backs. It burns 3x as much fuel as a 580cc sled but its also carrying 2 guys, it is definitely slower, and it is much wider, which didn't really limit us though, 1 spot going up 2 bit we had to drive around a blow down where the sleds could go under. I might bring it next time and just leave it at camp until its time to haul an animal out or even a sled. if its breaking trail its too slow, if its riding already broken trail it works great. I was told several times "you won't get that thing up there"...it went anywhere and everywhere I asked it to go, could of easily been ontop of the mountains if it wasn't for the MKMA rules.

http://youtu.be/11WOanigWHo

[Xenomorph]

That's an awesome story man and very good stuff to pick from equipment wise. Good luck on the next hunt Sith.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

With all those things going sideways, I figured there would be a "booner" at the end of your adventure. I was rooting for you guys!
Great story nonetheless, after all, I for one can appreciate a journey where success is measured by adventure.

Thanks for taking us along!


SSS

[daycort]

Hmmm. Bad luck. I would hunt south side of that river. Good luck next time.

[MOUNTAIN MAN - TOYOTA/ATV]

It is too bad you had such a rough time on your bison hunt. Better luck next time.

You were smart to hook up your Rhino to logs and get her out of there!

Nice photos.

[dabber]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I have tracks for my quad and they have worked out well both times we have been bison hunting. You use alot more fuel than with wheels but less than the skidoo we had.I think they are able to pull alot more,as they have a big surface area.The last few years I've been bringing along a kids crazy carpet as it doesn't take up much room. I haven't used it in the snow yet but we put it under an elk and it sure cut down the resistance for towing it behind the quad. It might have helped if you had one under your logs.
The first time I went bison hunting we met up with a couple guys that had a tag, they decided it was going to be to much work and were going to look for a ranch that sold them so they had something to take back home.That year we came home empty handed so maybe they were right.But we had a good time and new the area for next time.

[aggiehunter]

havin a hard time reading this and actually haven't read it all...the hard time comes from the fact that the almost exact thing happened to us with brand new Tatou 4S tracks on a grizzly 700. The big nut in the middle that none of us look at or touch came loose from the factory..they forgot to torque and loctite it. We were in the same area as you but with the help of some young hunters we got the machine lifted up and the bolt was stuck under that black Camoplast cover. We used a crescent to tightned it up and headed back to the trailhead..loaded the machine and with confidence were ready for the next morning. I guess lucky for us the track fell off right while unloading and we were dead in the water again. We ended up driving to FTJ and got it repaired at the local Yamaha shop...great bunch of guys and went back to kill our bison. The good news was that the honda shop where I got them had a whole new tract sent and we replaced for free. I now regulary check that main bolt as well as all the other ones in the track. No issues since then...4 years.

[moosinaround]

Good story, good read, love the vids too! I always say "ya gotta pay to play" and with back country equipment (ATVS, 4x4 trucks, UTVs boats ect) they are costly to run! Folks who do not own them, have no idea what it costs to run them, till they buy their own! I have had adventures like yours, and it is half the fun, but also half the headache too! I did the 7-57b bison hunt 3 years ago, and will probably go to a bison ranch for Bison next time. Will I go back up there, hells ya!! I seen a freakin HUGE whitetail buck up there, LOTS of elk, and I'll bet there's some nice bull moose around there too! We did a Trip into Dease Lake last Aug, and it was fantastic, no moose or caribou, but I have a new appreciation for the Cassiar Mtns!! Tahnks for sharing your adventure! Moosin

[M.Dean]

If you down load the third pic from the last, then zoom in to the upper right hand side of the farthest Mnt, looks to me like there's 3 herd bulls laying down? I'd have taken the one to the right, looks to be the oldest and heaviest of the lot. Excellent story and pic's, sounds like a great adventure you won't soon forget! Thanks for posting it!

[Pioneerman]

Great story, pictures and video, a shame you were not successful in the hunt. This realy shows how important something as simple as a loose nut or a $12 bearing, they can make or break a trip. I am sure you will be going over everything with a fine tooth comb before your next trip, and gives everyone else a wake up call to be ready for the unexpected also. But what a great experience you shared, thanks.

[Darksith]

If you down load the third pic from the last, then zoom in to the upper right hand side of the farthest Mnt, looks to me like there's 3 herd bulls laying down? I'd have taken the one to the right, looks to be the oldest and heaviest of the lot. Excellent story and pic's, sounds like a great adventure you won't soon forget! Thanks for posting it!

say what lol!

[Mik]

It was a pleasure to have met you and your hunting party. We really appreciated you letting us try and get a bison for the young fella out at Caribou flats. I'll post a story later on as i have no time due to workin out of town right now. Sorry to hear about the rhino breakin down like that....but what would a hunt be with no breakdowns?

[BiG Boar]

Well, as always, bison hunting is a real adventure! Even going with someone who had done that hunt 5 times before. Luckily you didn't have to deal with most of the normal -30 to -40 issues that come up, on top of your current problems. There are so many issues with access in the area that I don't believe the population is really being dented at all. I mean you were there how many days, and saw how many kills? Weather is such a big factor, but access the other more important issue. This hunt is usually a bunch of Lowermainlanders who have no idea what they're doing up there, and I really wish more people were successful so that this population was brought back to reasonable levels. The moose population apparently has taken a beating since the bison took over. Even though you didn't see a whole pile of bison, they are still there, and breeding out of control at the moment. I can see the issue with turning it into an open season though. You said there were lots of hunters there (six sleds). Thats not really what I would call a lot of pressure, but if it did go open season, the first few years, people would be really frustrated with it being over crowded. It sucks that you gave up, but thats why I recommend people go late. The hunters slowly fail equipment, or get really frustrated with so many hunters being around, driving the bison away.

Unfortunately it sounds like you experienced about the norm of what bison hunting is like for most hunters.

I read that you wouldn't do the late hunt anymore. But from your experience, what else would you do different next time? Sleds, SXS, more hiking, more spotting, would you stay where you stayed, would you bring any other gear, what struggles were most of the other unsuccessful hunters having? There is a lot to be learned from hunts where you don't tag out, so long as you're willing to identify the issues and change them next time. But sometimes we are just unlucky.

Obviously if you had run into bison your first day, things would have seemed a lot easier, and this does happen for some people. But the people who don't have such luck, they (myself included) like to blame everything but themselves. I was really rooting for you to get a big bad bull. I really thought you were going to get er done! At least you had fun, and made it back home alive! There's always next year.

[Darksith]

Well, as always, bison hunting is a real adventure! Even going with someone who had done that hunt 5 times before. Luckily you didn't have to deal with most of the normal -30 to -40 issues that come up, on top of your current problems. There are so many issues with access in the area that I don't believe the population is really being dented at all. I mean you were there how many days, and saw how many kills? Weather is such a big factor, but access the other more important issue. This hunt is usually a bunch of Lowermainlanders who have no idea what they're doing up there, and I really wish more people were successful so that this population was brought back to reasonable levels. The moose population apparently has taken a beating since the bison took over. Even though you didn't see a whole pile of bison, they are still there, and breeding out of control at the moment. I can see the issue with turning it into an open season though. You said there were lots of hunters there (six sleds). Thats not really what I would call a lot of pressure, but if it did go open season, the first few years, people would be really frustrated with it being over crowded. It sucks that you gave up, but thats why I recommend people go late. The hunters slowly fail equipment, or get really frustrated with so many hunters being around, driving the bison away.

Unfortunately it sounds like you experienced about the norm of what bison hunting is like for most hunters.

I read that you wouldn't do the late hunt anymore. But from your experience, what else would you do different next time? Sleds, SXS, more hiking, more spotting, would you stay where you stayed, would you bring any other gear, what struggles were most of the other unsuccessful hunters having? There is a lot to be learned from hunts where you don't tag out, so long as you're willing to identify the issues and change them next time. But sometimes we are just unlucky.

Obviously if you had run into bison your first day, things would have seemed a lot easier, and this does happen for some people. But the people who don't have such luck, they (myself included) like to blame everything but themselves. I was really rooting for you to get a big bad bull. I really thought you were going to get er done! At least you had fun, and made it back home alive! There's always next year.

We didn't end up going with my friend who had done it several times, he went early and left before we arrived. I don't think -30-40 is the norm, although they always do get a stretch of weather like that every year, its not the normal temperature for that area. We were most certainly prepared for cold, and I grew up in the north, I know what cold is. I never once said the bison population was weak, and I never said there was only 6 sleds. 6 groups with an average of 3 sleds each is around 20 sleds, and everyone is driving the same 2 or 3 trails. We attempted to get away from the crowds by taking different routes and going to different areas, but there was simply no sign when we tried to leave the party. That being said it really wasn't that much of a gong show, and that didn't really matter so much as it was all about finding a track more than finding an animal standing on the trail. The animals are so weary come january I would imagine, and from talkig to the trapper thats pretty much true. The animals will take off as soon as they hear the machines, and get into the timber, and by that time, they have most likely been pushed away from the trails to different feeding grounds where they aren't bothered. The few that remain close to the traffic are nocturnal, and due to the warm temperatures it really made it hard to cut a track that you were comfortable calling fresh. We did get on several tracks and we did follow them, some ended up not being fresh, others ended up being the wrong species. I have no regrets, it was an adventure and thats what its about for me. One thing I would love to do differently and I say this almost every hunt is that I would love to have a hunt with a few younger fellas. My hunting partners for all of my big trips are my dad and uncles. They are getting old, some in poorer health than others, and they aren't quite as dedicated as myself but hey, they are family. I am up 3h before them, I am the one doing all the prepping, planning and I am the one that is interested in going early and staying late, don't get me wrong, I love those boys and I enjoy spending time with them, but I am also much more of a die hard than they are, and that makes it tough sometimes. The late hunt isn't something to give up on, this year was a tough one due to my new addition to the family, so there was added pressure there, and the wifes happiness has to come before a few extra days of hunting, but now that I have done the late hunt, I would love to do an earlier hunt and change that hunts experience a bit. Everyone had the same issues as myself I think, lack of fresh sign. Only 2 things explain that, weather causing fresh to look like old (I don't think that was the problem as Mik and others were there before us and it wasn't as warm) or the animals had simply moved off away from the trails and the pressure and were somewhere we were not. Biggest mistake we made was staying committed to the halfway valley and the 2 bit creek drainage. We should of pushed north or south via hwy access. The machines weren't the problem, breakdowns were on the SXS but thats part of it as well, you can have a brand new sled break down on ya, one just never knows. We did a fair bit of glassing, could of done more, but I tried to follow everyones advice, cover ground until you cut a fresh track. That seemed to be the #1 tip, and my buddy that was there before us did spend a ton of time glassing, his guess was that the bison had simply moved out of that valley, its nothing for them to cross over to the next, and they will come back when they see fit as well. Thats just how it goes, if it was anything but, it would be called shopping or harvesting not hunting. I dont consider us leaving as giving up, just ran out of time.

[BiG Boar]

Lol, not a ton of activity still, gotta find the beasts, some fresh tracks right on the trail according to some. Hopefully we will have good fortune. Only 3 groups now hunting the main trail, 6 sleds total.



I never said there was only 6 sleds. 6 groups with an average of 3 sleds each is around 20 sleds, and everyone is driving the same 2 or 3 trails

I hear you on the hunting with younger people more similar to your hunting style. This is one reason why I'm glad they are thinking about going to a shared hunt this year. I mean who wants to go on a minus 20 hunt when you don't have a chance of killing anything. Make an effort to find yourself some more piss and vinegar hunting partners. There are lots of them on here. I found a great group of guys this year. It just seems like the older guys can take more time off than younger guys. At least you get to hunt with your family. That's not something I ever get to do. So appriciate that you have that. Too bad you didn't get a bison, but there's always next time.

[Darksith]

I hear you on the hunting with younger people more similar to your hunting style. This is one reason why I'm glad they are thinking about going to a shared hunt this year. I mean who wants to go on a minus 20 hunt when you don't have a chance of killing anything. Make an effort to find yourself some more piss and vinegar hunting partners.

my appologies, thanks for clearing up things...

see below for explanation if readers are confused.

[BiG Boar]

I think we are miscommunicating somewhat. I am referring to the bison hunt in general, and not you and your hunt when I am making comments about the hunt itself and how difficult it is. If you didn't know, a shared hunt was proposed for next year, and this is what I was referring to when I say who wants to tag along on a hunt when you don't have a chance of killing anything.

You were saying you wanted some more energized partners, and I am encouraging you to find yourself some younger guys with more piss and vinegar to hunt with. P&V refers to Rowdy, boisterous, full of youthful energy. It sucks hunting with guys who are not on the same motivational level as oneself.

I hope that clears things up? To have more people be successful on this hunt, there needs to be more information like yours told, as now people can learn from your experience.

Regards, Mr.Raggy

[40incher]

Thanks for the story. It gives insight into how difficult this hunt can be.

I drew a tag for December 1-15 and decided not to go, even though the tag was paid for, based on the cold weather and the very poor success to that date. Why is this hunt not a GOS if the transplanted Plain's Bison are so negatively affecting the native species?? Appears like it's just another bureaucratic screw up to me.

Also happened to draw a 7-20A antlerless tag and, while I killed a nice cow elk, it begs the question why we are not hunting these animals on a GOS in more favourable conditions (September and October would make sense) as this is a herd reduction program is it not!? LEH is a restriction that is being overextended beyond its requirement. The shared hunt is just a money grab!

It seems to me the bison hunt should be a GOS hunt, before they further degrade our sheep/elk/deer winter range any further.

JMHO.

[Darksith]

Im not sure if the shared hunt is a money grab, an attempt to up the success rate of harvest or simply to decrease the number of people in the valley. I suspect it will do all 3 things at once. If you cut in half the number of groups going on the hunt, and triple or quadruple the number of tags purchased, hopefully the pressure decrease will keep the animals around which would up the harvest rate.

[Sofa King]

I think we are miscommunicating somewhat. I am referring to the bison hunt in general, and not you and your hunt when I am making comments about the hunt itself and how difficult it is. If you didn't know, a shared hunt was proposed for next year, and this is what I was referring to when I say who wants to tag along on a hunt when you don't have a chance of killing anything.

You were saying you wanted some more energized partners, and I am encouraging you to find yourself some younger guys with more piss and vinegar to hunt with. P&V refers to Rowdy, boisterous, full of youthful energy. It sucks hunting with guys who are not on the same motivational level as oneself.

I hope that clears things up? To have more people be successful on this hunt, there needs to be more information like yours told, as now people can learn from your experience.

Regards, Mr.Raggy

ditto on that.
this thread, your story, is a real eye-opener to how this trip can be experienced.
it's not a hunt that appeals to me that much, but it's really great reading and learning about it.
putting one on the ground, or not, means nothing to me when reading these stories.
sure it's awesome to see/read about a successful hunting trip, but to me success is more just being able to get out there in the wilds.
I never come home dejected from any hunting trips.
I missed out on even getting shots away on two great whiteys this season, I thought about "what if", but I was quickly stoked about my next trip out to have another go at them.
of course a bison hunt is a much bigger endeavor, it's not like one just goes back the next week.
I still really enjoyed the story regardless of the outcome.

[BiG Boar]

Im not sure if the shared hunt is a money grab, an attempt to up the success rate of harvest or simply to decrease the number of people in the valley.

People want this as a shared hunt, it has nothing to do with a money grab. It's a hard hunt to do alone, but with someone else to help, you can split expenses because this is not a cheap hunt. It takes several thousand dollars in specialized equipment to make it happen usually. Making it a shared hunt will hopefully increase the success rate, people won't back out because they are afraid to do it alone. I'm not sure why you think making it a shared hunt would decrease the number of people I the valley, the way I see it, it will double the number of hunters.

[Mik]

People want this as a shared hunt, it has nothing to do with a money grab. It's a hard hunt to do alone, but with someone else to help, you can split expenses because this is not a cheap hunt. It takes several thousand dollars in specialized equipment to make it happen usually. Making it a shared hunt will hopefully increase the success rate, people won't back out because they are afraid to do it alone. I'm not sure why you think making it a shared hunt would decrease the number of people I the valley, the way I see it, it will double the number of hunters.

Whether its a shared hunt or not, i dont believe anyone goes up for a bison hunt alone? do they? and certainly making it a shared hunt, in my opinion, will not make the success rate go up?? or is my way of thinking wrong? im just trying to understand.

[Darksith]

I'm not sure why you think making it a shared hunt would decrease the number of people I the valley, the way I see it, it will double the number of hunters.

if you have 200 tags issued, thats essentially 200 groups going on the hunt if everyone went. If theres an average of 3 people per group thats 600 people in the valley. If you issue 100 group hunts with 2 tags per group, thats only 300-400 people going up. Not like I know, but it seems like the bison are in groups, so if a group is successful, I would bet that 2 bison are hitting the ground each time a group is successful, or damn close to it. A group that doesn't see anything isn't gonna do better because they have 2 tags. Group success rates probably remain constant if you don't factor in a decrease of hunting pressure if thats the cause of groups being unsuccessful, but harvest numbers might go up due to multiple animals being taken on the same day

[Sitkaspruce]

Thanks for the story. It gives insight into how difficult this hunt can be.

I drew a tag for December 1-15 and decided not to go, even though the tag was paid for, based on the cold weather and the very poor success to that date. Why is this hunt not a GOS if the transplanted Plain's Bison are so negatively affecting the native species?? Appears like it's just another bureaucratic screw up to me.

FN has the biggest say, they get first choice and do not want it GOS as they figure the buff will all be gone. Another is all the $$$ the gov makes off the LEH application. Must be nice to get the tag then not go because of weather and "very poor success to date". What did you think the weather was going to be??. And success?? It is hunting, not killing....... You could have given the tag back for someone who want to HUNT buff no matter the weather and success.

Also happened to draw a 7-20A antlerless tag and, while I killed a nice cow elk, it begs the question why we are not hunting these animals on a GOS in more favourable conditions (September and October would make sense) as this is a herd reduction program is it not!? LEH is a restriction that is being overextended beyond its requirement. The shared hunt is just a money grab!

You should read your regsulations, Cow elk are open from Sept 15 to Oct 31 in 7-20A, then closed for the month of Nov then LEH for 3 months. Not sure how much more you want it open. But then again you want it easy, so maybe open all year and you can pick your weather......

It seems to me the bison hunt should be a GOS hunt, before they further degrade our sheep/elk/deer winter range any further.

This statement from a guy who has a tag and never went because of the weather and becasue it was not an EASY KILL.....:confused:

Maybe tag holders should actually get out and hunt their tag instead of complaining about how bad the buff are damaging the sheep/elk/moose range

JMHO.

JMHO.....

Cheers

SS

[Onesock]

Shared hunts and group hunts are different

[BiG Boar]

Whether its a shared hunt or not, i dont believe anyone goes up for a bison hunt alone? do they? and certainly making it a shared hunt, in my opinion, will not make the success rate go up?? or is my way of thinking wrong? im just trying to understand.

The way I see it, you're right, people don't want to do the hunt alone. But I would say a very large percentage of the people who put in and get drawn alone, think they will find a partner and can't, so they don't end up going, which is why this is the only tag that the ministry allows you to turn back in. But most people probably don't turn in there wasted tags, as they keep hoping they will find a partner. A lot of partners aren't willing to go, unless they have a tag. Making it a shared hunt, I believe will make it so that a lot more tags go unwasted, because at least you'll have a partner to go with, who is motivated to go.



if you have 200 tags issued, thats essentially 200 groups going on the hunt if everyone went. If theres an average of 3 people per group thats 600 people in the valley. If you issue 100 group hunts with 2 tags per group, thats only 300-400 people going up. Not like I know, but it seems like the bison are in groups, so if a group is successful, I would bet that 2 bison are hitting the ground each time a group is successful, or damn close to it. A group that doesn't see anything isn't gonna do better because they have 2 tags. Group success rates probably remain constant if you don't factor in a decrease of hunting pressure if thats the cause of groups being unsuccessful, but harvest numbers might go up due to multiple animals being taken on the same day

The way I see it, if you have 200 tags issued currently, you have 200 people going. Many people just won't go because they can't find a partner, some will go solo, and some will find a partner, and some will have 2 partners. But my guess would be 200 going.

With the shared draw, you have 200 tags, but each of those tags has double the number of shooters, or 400 people going. More will have a partner because its shared, some will go solo, some of the 2 partners will bring 1 or 2 extra people. But my guess would be 400 people going.

Obviously its tough to say until it actually happens, but when it goes shared, I can only see the number of people going up. I do think the number of bison killed with it as a shared draw, will go up, just because less tags will go to waste.

I suppose this is totally off topic though. Sorry for the highjack.

[BiG Boar]

Shared hunts and group hunts are different

one sock is less than two socks.

[Darksith]

I don't think that people aren't going on that hunt because they can't find a partner. I think people don't go on that hunt because of the logistical nightmare it can become if you don't already own the equipment. Its not an easy hunt, the ministry doesn't do the winners any favors with the information they provide and the maps. And most of the successful applicants will be from the LML and vancouver island simply due to the volume of hunters in those areas. I bet if the draw was only open to people in PG and north of there the ratio of tag winners to actual hunts done would sky rocket. I think making that hunt a group hunt won't change who wins, nor will it change the logistical challenge of the hunt, so I still bet you won't have a huge spike in groups going, I just hope the groups that do go are more successful. I don't believe it is all about pulling the trigger, I think there are a select few out there that need to pull the trigger, but in my experiences its more about being successful in getting meat than being the shooter.

Either way I bet there isn't a huge jump in the number of hunters or hunts done, but I would hope that the number of animals harvested goes up. One thing we need, or I would like to learn is about the other areas of the MU...not the halfway valley. I suspect if we had of decided early that the halfway wasn't where we would be successful it might of changed the game a bit...but would of really needed to have the wall tent and camp setup in tow which we did not to get down to 1 vehicle between 3 guys. Having a 4th person in the group would of forced us to have 2 vehicles, and that might of been a game changer honestly.

[BiG Boar]

I don't believe it is all about pulling the trigger, I think there are a select few out there that need to pull the trigger, but in my experiences its more about being successful in getting meat than being the shooter.

You're exactly right, let me quote the quote of you quoting yourself.

It doesn't matter if you harvest an animal or not. In the end after all the meat is gone, all you're left with is memories, so every hunt is a success, some simply have more high fives than others!

[BiG Boar]

Out of curiosity, how many bison in total do you think were killed in your 2 week time slot, judging from what you saw and heard before and after your hunt while talking to people?

[40incher]

SS,

Guess you must have had a bad day at the office ...

FYI, I had paid for the Bison tag with the intent of going up and it could not be reissued. If I choose not to go based on weather and my personal observations that is my choice. What are you ... the Bison Nazi?

As for the elk ... extend the GOS through November so hunters can combine a deer/elk hunt.

And, last but not least, as for your petty insults ... get a life. You couldn't pack my lunch bud.

[Sitkaspruce]

SS,

Guess you must have had a bad day at the office ...

FYI, I had paid for the Bison tag with the intent of going up and it could not be reissued. If I choose not to go based on weather and my personal observations that is my choice. What are you ... the Bison Nazi?

Nope but guys who "win" a high odds LEH, then wimp out due to "weather and success", then bitch about the damage that said species is doing to other species habitat and pretty well whine about it do not deserve to apply for those tags. You sure helped out those other species EH.......

As for the elk ... extend the GOS through November so hunters can combine a deer/elk hunt.

You did not say that, you bitched about it not being GOS at all......

And, last but not least, as for your petty insults ... get a life. You couldn't pack my lunch bud.

What do you eat?? You never know unless you try:wink::mrgreen:

Sorry to hijack your post DS.

Cheers

SS

[Darksith]

http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Darksith http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1461892#post1461892)
I don't believe it is all about pulling the trigger, I think there are a select few out there that need to pull the trigger, but in my experiences its more about being successful in getting meat than being the shooter.
You're exactly right, let me quote the quote of you quoting yourself.

It doesn't matter if you harvest an animal or not. In the end after all the meat is gone, all you're left with is memories, so every hunt is a success, some simply have more high fives than others!
So then why would a group hunt or having the ability to be the harvester have a positive impact on the number of people that go on that hunt? That was the point you were making wasn't it? More shooters = more groups that go on the hunt because its easier to find people to go with rather than just helpers?


Out of curiosity, how many bison in total do you think were killed in your 2 week time slot, judging from what you saw and heard before and after your hunt while talking to people?

From groups staying at the ranch or travelling around the ranch...2, out of about 10 groups...I have no idea who or how many people were hunting the south (143) road. I only know of 1 group that actually saw a bison and didn't get one on the ground.

[Mik]

There was also a group of 3 hunters from the island that left Sat Jan 18 in the Am that had a bison.

[bridger]

As for the elk ... extend the GOS through November so hunters can combine a deer

Actually a major reason for the present time frame for the various bison hunts is to avoid increased pressure on other species. The bison hunt is viewed as an unique stand alone hunt. As other guys have said it is a tough hunt, requiring good equipment, and a positive mental attitude and is tough for one guy to do alone By changing the rules to allow shared hunts the ministry is hoping it will result in increased harvest numbers and increased participation.

[Elkaholic1977]

Great story sorry for the outcome. We drew the 2015 Jan 1-15 7-57 zone a Tags. searching for info tips, i am shocked at how little snow was there in your photos but sounds like its not the norm. Looking forward to a great memorable trip and hopefully coming home with a cut tag!

[moosehunter1]

We got the October 1-15 2014 group draw (3). Could you share some info about cabins, tresspass fees or contact phone numbers please?

[Darksith]

Great story sorry for the outcome. We drew the 2015 Jan 1-15 7-57 zone a Tags. searching for info tips, i am shocked at how little snow was there in your photos but sounds like its not the norm. Looking forward to a great memorable trip and hopefully coming home with a cut tag!
The halfway valley traditionally gets much less snow than the rest of the valleys in that area, so its not really that much of a shocker. As you travel down the valley the snow levels will increase though, especially once you get past the river.


We got the October 1-15 2014 group draw (3). Could you share some info about cabins, tresspass fees or contact phone numbers please?

Going in October you won't have any snow, so it will be quads. The tresspass fee seems to change year to year, and its negotiable if you have something to barter with. One guy while I was there was a commercial fisherman and he brought salmon and halibut to trade for cabin rentals/fees. Funny thing though, they did trade, but then said they didn't eat anything from the sea as they considered it filthy...figure that one out! In october nothing will be frozen so it will be quite a different setting if you don't want to pay the tresspass fee or stay on the ranch. You will need to cross a swamp and I can only imagine how much of a hassle that would be if its not froze up. Personally I have no problems paying the fee, the band isn't doing anything differently than if it was someone else owning that chunk of land. There are several trails around, but the closest is just a km or 2 before the ranch on the right side. It is fairly obvious and if you just keep heading west you will come into a swamp. There is a seismic line on the other side of the swamp, you take that till you hit a 4 way intersection, then go left and you are past the ranch. You might end up on their airstrip, but I wouldn't blink at that and simply take that route to their property line. You will then see the other trail and its pretty easy if you just keep your bearings...East is home, west is deeper into the valley. 2 bit creek also looked like a great area although all we saw were caribou, thats somewhere outside of the MKMA so you can venture a little more freely with your machines. The bison are like moose from what I hear, they feed in the willows, fields and marshes.

As for the cabins, they are a roof over your head, but the stoves are the cheap colemans, not a camp chef or anything, and the amount of utensils and cooking devices definitely could be better. If I went again I would bring my own stove and kitchen stuff. We ended up robbing other cabins that were empty, but if its all booked up you might be the one whos cabin got robbed and you could be hurting. Also bring your own chair.

There are also cabins out past the ranch that are for rent. Personally if I ever get the opportunity to do it again, I would probably not pay the fee, get there a day early and get my camp setup past the ranch and stay in the valley somewhere, there are some pretty nice spots that are used for horses and such. You may have some headaches getting in, but once your in your in. Shuffle all your gear to each obstacle before you cross so you don't have such a long round trip back and forth maybe. There are also after talking to friends that know that area, ways into that MU from the north, but again if its not frozen you may have some issues. I have no regrets staying at the ranch, but in hind site or if given the chance again I think I would pass unless the temps were expected to be colder than -20 constantly.

Getting the October hunt is something special, we saw a lot of elk way up high, as well as sheep. To go and have the ability to hunt other animals on top of the bison would be amazing. The blueberry ranch phone number is somewhere on this site, or try google, I don't have it anymore.