Kokanee--How can we help them out??

[Rackem]

I am thinking of starting a Facebook Group and a petition about helping out the poor Kokanee in Kootenay Lake.

I have a friend who is a fishing guide and he says the fishing is just horrible. Numbers are way down.

A fatal fish virus has been found in 80 per cent of Kokanee salmon breeding in a spawning channel near Kootenay Lake in the southern interior.

Read more: http://bc.ctvnews.ca/fatal-fish-virus-targets-kootenay-lake-kokanee-1.1656796#ixzz2rpvki3Vt


There is a fishing derby on Kootenay Lake almost every long weekend now, and I don't think any are catch and release....maybe a temporary stop to derbies until this is figured out???

Any ideas or feedback?

[Jagermeister]

There is not much anyone can do with this virus. It just has to run its course. Fortunately, the kokanee alevins will be hatching in the near future and should not be exposed to the virus.
We will not know the impact until this years spawning return. Since the kokanee are a feed fish for the Gerrard rainbows, it will have an impact on them, the lake and bull trout too.

[goatdancer]

There are many different problems in the Kootenay Lake fishery. The kokanee and burbot were overfished for many years. The nutrients feeding into the lake have changed. One of the nutrients ( can't remember which one ) used to enter the system from a plant in Kimberley. The kokanee fishery was severely curtailed quite a few years ago. Hopefully the Meadow Creek situation can be rectified and the virus removed. Are the fishing derbies for kokanee or rainbow trout?

[btridge]

There are many different problems in the Kootenay Lake fishery. The kokanee and burbot were overfished for many years. The nutrients feeding into the lake have changed. One of the nutrients ( can't remember which one ) used to enter the system from a plant in Kimberley. The kokanee fishery was severely curtailed quite a few years ago. Hopefully the Meadow Creek situation can be rectified and the virus removed. Are the fishing derbies for kokanee or rainbow trout?

Rainbow and Bull trout

[Sofa King]

they have fishing derbies for kokanee?
haha, why?
I've never understood why some go out and actually target them.
why wouldn't you rather catch a nice rainbow than a few dink kokanee?
I know that they are better eating and that's the attraction, but even on light gear, they are hardly fun.
impressive seeing the large sizes coming out of kal these days though.

but even-so, they are an important fish regardless.
without a healthy pop of koks, all the other fish will be impacted as well.

[Sofa King]

I guess it's the equivalent of taking a small deer at the start of the season to fill the freezer.
makes sense.

[Ringo 7MM]

I guess it's the equivalent of taking a small deer at the start of the season to fill the freezer.
makes sense.

I thought this tread was about saving Kokanee, not putting small deer into freezers.

[Sofa King]

I thought this tread was about saving Kokanee, not putting small deer into freezers.

nope, it's about small deer.

[Vader]

Kokanee can actually have some weight to them. I think the record is around the 11 lb mark on the arrow lakes.

When I fished the Kookanusa in the early days after the dam was built, the average was 3 lbs. Once the feed dried up, as previously stated the fertilizer from Tech in Kimberley, fed the watershed and this helped grow the misces that kokanee thrived on.

Some bio geek technologist decided that the system needed more shrimp so they poured a whack of a different type of shrimp into the system. Unfortunately this species was a bottom feeder, kokanee don't feed on the bottom, and this particular strain fed on the plankton that rose to the top. The top feeding shrimp had suffered even further.

There was a period of time where the ferry systems would carry tanks of fertilizer on board and at one point there was even a barge employed to dump fertilizer in the Kootenay lake water system to try to grow more food for the kokanee which are prey for rainbows and dollies alike. This appeared to be working. I don't believe the same tactics are are being used today.

Pretty tough to manage a virus in an aquatic species.

[GoatGuy]

Long story short, BC Hydro has been screwing anglers in the Columbia system for years. As part of their water license hydro had to set up the Columbia Basin Fish and Wildlife Compensation Program. The program employees were paid out of the fund and the work was supposed to go towards mitigating the effects of the dams on fish and wildlife. Two years ago BC Hydro terminated the program employees as part of the government mandated hydro cuts, despite the fact these employees weren't paid out of Hydro dollars. So it looked like Hydro met the head count, but what it really did was terminate people who didn't even get paid out of the hydro budget. The new program is a bunch of BS where the comp program reports to hydro as part of its 'obligation to the public'. The fox self-reports after eating the chickens - and according to the fox all the chickens are there. BC Hydro doesn't care and won't care about fish or wildlife until the public starts helding it to account.

The latest out of the compensation program is they're going to increase kokannee size kokannee size in arrow by lowering the kokannee population. The kokannee population in that 'reservoir' is already in the gutter due to a lack of nutrients and as a result bull trout and rainbows have tanked. Now, apparently they want to increase kokannee size by further reducing the kokannee population which will effectively terminate the predatory fish fishery. And, I don't think Hydro ever asked the public what they wanted in a fishery once.

The long story short is BC Hydro is pissing dollars away and has neglected the fisheries in both the Arrow and Kootenay lake. The comp program has turned into a publicity stunt that spends its time putting up signs and giving away contracts to feel good outcomes that in reality will not achieve a net benefit for fish or wildlife in the affected areas. Politicians don't care because they net out the benefit by using income from Hydro to help balance the budget. I could go on for days about this.

Don't expect Hydro to do anything, unless they wear the bad publicity in the public eye.

[quaint bucket]

Long story short, BC Hydro has been screwing anglers in the Columbia system for years. As part of their water license hydro had to set up the Columbia Basin Fish and Wildlife Compensation Program. The program employees were paid out of the fund and the work was supposed to go towards mitigating the effects of the dams on fish and wildlife. Two years ago BC Hydro terminated the program employees as part of the government mandated hydro cuts, despite the fact these employees weren't paid out of Hydro dollars. So it looked like Hydro met the head count, but what it really did was terminate people who didn't even get paid out of the hydro budget. The new program is a bunch of BS where the comp program reports to hydro as part of its 'obligation to the public'. The fox self-reports after eating the chickens - and according to the fox all the chickens are there. BC Hydro doesn't care and won't care about fish or wildlife until the public starts helding it to account.

The latest out of the compensation program is they're going to increase kokannee size kokannee size in arrow by lowering the kokannee population. The kokannee population in that 'reservoir' is already in the gutter due to a lack of nutrients and as a result bull trout and rainbows have tanked. Now, apparently they want to increase kokannee size by further reducing the kokannee population which will effectively terminate the predatory fish fishery. And, I don't think Hydro ever asked the public what they wanted in a fishery once.

The long story short is BC Hydro is pissing dollars away and has neglected the fisheries in both the Arrow and Kootenay lake. The comp program has turned into a publicity stunt that spends its time putting up signs and giving away contracts to feel good outcomes that in reality will not achieve a net benefit for fish or wildlife in the affected areas. Politicians don't care because they net out the benefit by using income from Hydro to help balance the budget. I could go on for days about this.

Don't expect Hydro to do anything, unless they wear the bad publicity in the public eye.

I'm interested. Where did you learn all this? Is there anything to verify the info? I know about the government mandated cut for BCH, but this is the first I've heard about that kind of cut to a program in order to maintain headcounts. I can see how it would work that way but yikes.

[GoatGuy]

And if you're starting some form of public communication tool I'd be more than willing to provide you with data, letters, figures, you name it. Like I said I could go on for days about this. All you'll ever find is excuses with this outfit - its a professional do nothing and avoid negative publicity entity in BC.

[Dannybuoy]

I understood that the kokanee numbers were at all time record highs in Kootenay lake for the past few years now ? That's why the rainbow and bull trout are doing so well , the kokanee might be smaller than average .

[Sofa King]

Kokanee can actually have some weight to them. I think the record is around the 11 lb mark on the arrow lakes.

When I fished the Kookanusa in the early days after the dam was built, the average was 3 lbs. Once the feed dried up, as previously stated the fertilizer from Tech in Kimberley, fed the watershed and this helped grow the misces that kokanee thrived on.

Some bio geek technologist decided that the system needed more shrimp so they poured a whack of a different type of shrimp into the system. Unfortunately this species was a bottom feeder, kokanee don't feed on the bottom, and this particular strain fed on the plankton that rose to the top. The top feeding shrimp had suffered even further.

There was a period of time where the ferry systems would carry tanks of fertilizer on board and at one point there was even a barge employed to dump fertilizer in the Kootenay lake water system to try to grow more food for the kokanee which are prey for rainbows and dollies alike. This appeared to be working. I don't believe the same tactics are are being used today.

Pretty tough to manage a virus in an aquatic species.

seems like they did that in several places.
they did the same in Okanagan lake.
how dumb are those supposed experts who make these decisions?

[GoatGuy]

I'm interested. Where did you learn all this? Is there anything to verify the info? I know about the government mandated cut for BCH, but this is the first I've heard about that kind of cut to a program in order to maintain headcounts. I can see how it would work that way but yikes.

Just in meetings. Nothing in paper to verify this as it would create a huge sh*t storm.

After two years, the best response I've had: "Comp program changes aren’t discretely called out as there were so many reductions in the env and cross company.....Let me know if you have any other questions"

The reduced head counts were created to increase BC Hydro's 'efficiency'. How cutting staff that are paid from water comptroller mandated dollars (public dollars) to the compensation program is an easy guess. Make it look like we're doing something when we really aren't.

Since then the CBFWCP has been through a myriad of 'staff' and shiny objects. Easy to see how effective the program has been- just ask anyone from the WK. How many burns have been conducted along the Arrow/Columbia/Kookanusa reservoirs since the majority of the winter range was submerged decades ago? Crickets......

[Brambles]

I understood that the kokanee numbers were at all time record highs in Kootenay lake for the past few years now ? That's why the rainbow and bull trout are doing so well , the kokanee might be smaller than average .

The bull trout and Gerrards in Kootenay lake are in trouble too. Guides are concerned....Bio's say not to be that it is a natural cycle and everything will run its course.

Lots of theories as to why the big fish arn't there .....or arn't being caught.But enough dedicated guys are fishing the lake and the reports are dismal.

Naturally I could have predicted a downturn in the world class fishery because its the year I decided to take fishing back up and make a 20lb+ gerrard a goal...I have literally spent multiple hundreds of hours on the lake this year and still haven't caught one...

One thing I can say is that they were fighting worms like crazy this year.......empty stomachs except for a spagetti factory of worms in the stomach and dark meat of the horizontal body line....good news is the last couple bull trout we have kept the stomachs were worm free....hopefully the tides have turned....

[boxhitch]

I am thinking of starting a Facebook Group and a petition about helping out the poor Kokanee in Kootenay Lake.


Any ideas or feedback?Good on you for being passionate enough to do something . Pressure has to come to bear on those responsible for fish and wildlife and the only way is for people to take up a cause and get active.
Round out the full background and present the case , you will get support

[goatdancer]

The bull trout and Gerrards in Kootenay lake are in trouble too. Guides are concerned....Bio's say not to be that it is a natural cycle and everything will run its course.

Lots of theories as to why the big fish arn't there .....or arn't being caught.But enough dedicated guys are fishing the lake and the reports are dismal.

Naturally I could have predicted a downturn in the world class fishery because its the year I decided to take fishing back up and make a 20lb+ gerrard a goal...I have literally spent multiple hundreds of hours on the lake this year and still haven't caught one...

One thing I can say is that they were fighting worms like crazy this year.......empty stomachs except for a spagetti factory of worms in the stomach and dark meat of the horizontal body line....good news is the last couple bull trout we have kept the stomachs were worm free....hopefully the tides have turned....

Where are the bull trout spawning now? The Duncan dam destroyed a large portion of their spawning beds back in the '60s. The Lardeau River was closed to bull trout fishing back around '74 or '75. It was originally going to be closed for 5 years to allow the bulls to recover but it never was reopened.

[Sofa King]

The bull trout and Gerrards in Kootenay lake are in trouble too. Guides are concerned....Bio's say not to be that it is a natural cycle and everything will run its course.

Lots of theories as to why the big fish arn't there .....or arn't being caught.But enough dedicated guys are fishing the lake and the reports are dismal.

Naturally I could have predicted a downturn in the world class fishery because its the year I decided to take fishing back up and make a 20lb+ gerrard a goal...I have literally spent multiple hundreds of hours on the lake this year and still haven't caught one...

One thing I can say is that they were fighting worms like crazy this year.......empty stomachs except for a spagetti factory of worms in the stomach and dark meat of the horizontal body line....good news is the last couple bull trout we have kept the stomachs were worm free....hopefully the tides have turned....

why the empty stomachs?
are they just not feeding, or are the kokanee #'s really down that low?
what would the worms be from?

[Jagermeister]

One of the clubs will have to get present this by way of special emergency resolution to the BCWF AGM in Kelowna in April. In the meantime, a letter campaign to your local MLA and Evironmental Minister would be in order.
BC Hydro is screwing us on this issue and others.

[Sofa King]

Long story short, BC Hydro has been screwing anglers in the Columbia system for years. As part of their water license hydro had to set up the Columbia Basin Fish and Wildlife Compensation Program. The program employees were paid out of the fund and the work was supposed to go towards mitigating the effects of the dams on fish and wildlife. Two years ago BC Hydro terminated the program employees as part of the government mandated hydro cuts, despite the fact these employees weren't paid out of Hydro dollars. So it looked like Hydro met the head count, but what it really did was terminate people who didn't even get paid out of the hydro budget. The new program is a bunch of BS where the comp program reports to hydro as part of its 'obligation to the public'. The fox self-reports after eating the chickens - and according to the fox all the chickens are there. BC Hydro doesn't care and won't care about fish or wildlife until the public starts helding it to account.

The latest out of the compensation program is they're going to increase kokannee size kokannee size in arrow by lowering the kokannee population. The kokannee population in that 'reservoir' is already in the gutter due to a lack of nutrients and as a result bull trout and rainbows have tanked. Now, apparently they want to increase kokannee size by further reducing the kokannee population which will effectively terminate the predatory fish fishery. And, I don't think Hydro ever asked the public what they wanted in a fishery once.

The long story short is BC Hydro is pissing dollars away and has neglected the fisheries in both the Arrow and Kootenay lake. The comp program has turned into a publicity stunt that spends its time putting up signs and giving away contracts to feel good outcomes that in reality will not achieve a net benefit for fish or wildlife in the affected areas. Politicians don't care because they net out the benefit by using income from Hydro to help balance the budget. I could go on for days about this.

Don't expect Hydro to do anything, unless they wear the bad publicity in the public eye.

why are they concerned about having larger kokanee?
they are a feeder fish for the bulls and bows.
they should be viewed as that more and not as a target species.
the #'s of kokanee should be increased, anything else makes no sense.

[Brambles]

Where are the bull trout spawning now? The Duncan dam destroyed a large portion of their spawning beds back in the '60s. The Lardeau River was closed to bull trout fishing back around '74 or '75. It was originally going to be closed for 5 years to allow the bulls to recover but it never was reopened.

There are still a few creeks/rivers along the lake that the bulls spawn in, kaslo river being one of the major ones.



why the empty stomachs?
are they just not feeding, or are the kokanee #'s really down that low?
what would the worms be from?

Word has it that the virus that the Kokanee got was transmitted to the predatory fish through consumption, and made the fish very lethargic, there feeding slowed down, body weight dropped. I'm sure there was mortality too for the fish that couldn't handle the stress of the virus.....not sure where the worms fit in but word on the street is it happens in years where the water temp was high....lake temp got up to 74 degrees this summer.

i got a 8.5 lb bull in June or July that had 5 Kokanee in it, that was the last fish we caught that had fish in its belly.
i have seen evidence the bulls have fed on mysis shrimp.....lots of the bulls are white meat now,

[Moose Guide]

Where are the bull trout spawning now? The Duncan dam destroyed a large portion of their spawning beds back in the '60s. The Lardeau River was closed to bull trout fishing back around '74 or '75. It was originally going to be closed for 5 years to allow the bulls to recover but it never was reopened.

The Bull trout still spawn in the Lardeau River, upper Duncan River, Meadow Creek, Cooper Creek and numerous other creeks that flow into the Lardeau. As for the Lardeau being open for fishing, are you sure it was closed as late as 74, I was always led to believe it was closed in the late 60's.

[Ringo 7MM]

All of us from HBC should go over to Kootenay lake, find all the Kokanee and rackem all up and take them over to Shuswap lake where there is better schooling, that should increase their numbers.

[goatdancer]

The Bull trout still spawn in the Lardeau River, upper Duncan River, Meadow Creek, Cooper Creek and numerous other creeks that flow into the Lardeau. As for the Lardeau being open for fishing, are you sure it was closed as late as 74, I was always led to believe it was closed in the late 60's.

I fished it for the first time the last year it was open. That was in '74 or '75 or thereabouts. Never caught anything and didn't see any fish caught. The season opened at midnight on Nov. 1 so lots of guys started fishing at that time in the dark.

[boxhitch]

There is not much anyone can do with this virus. It just has to run its course. Fortunately, the kokanee alevins will be hatching in the near future and should not be exposed to the virus.
We will not know the impact until this years spawning return. Since the kokanee are a feed fish for the Gerrard rainbows, it will have an impact on them, the lake and bull trout too.Heard more about this today , and it sounds like the virus was found during a health check of eggs collected for a hatchery , found in the eggs. More info coming

[butcher]

That's exactly what happened. Standard annual fish health examinations at the FFSBC fish health lab in Duncan.

[markomoose]

Sad to here about the kokes,I love fishing them.Like a small sockeye.So BC Hydro wants to raise our rates!!Some of that money better go to fish loving or we are gonna have to show up @ coorperate & demand answers!Also interested as to who does their (BC HYDRO) Fish studies??An independant or their own bioligist??Not that tough to strongarm your own people??Ya I know it sounds a little paranoid.Help me out goat guy?

[boxhitch]

http://rosslandtelegraph.com/news/fish-virus-found-kootenay-lake-kokanee-calls-action-28084#.Uu2pOLTDvu0

[Moose Guide]

I fished it for the first time the last year it was open. That was in '74 or '75 or thereabouts. Never caught anything and didn't see any fish caught. The season opened at midnight on Nov. 1 so lots of guys started fishing at that time in the dark.

Thank you!

[goatdancer]

Are fisheries still doing the egg milking on Meadow Creek? Do they still set up the barriers after the spawning beds reach capacity?

[butcher]

Are fisheries still doing the egg milking on Meadow Creek? Do they still set up the barriers after the spawning beds reach capacity?

Not for at least three more years. That's the length of time the fish need to test negative for disease before the eggs can be used.

[goatdancer]

Thanks for the info.

[Brambles]

Heard more about this today , and it sounds like the virus was found during a health check of eggs collected for a hatchery , found in the eggs. More info coming

Body weight on the Gerrards is Definitly down, fish that would normally weigh over 20 lbs are coming in waaaaay underweight.
they aren't feeding and stomachs are tiny.
not sure if its the worms, virus, or lack of Kokanee. But even at 15,000,000 Kokanee you'd think they'd find a few to eat, plus small rainbows, squaw fish, whitefish, bull trout.....etc etc..

[Sofa King]

Body weight on the Gerrards is Definitly down, fish that would normally weigh over 20 lbs are coming in waaaaay underweight.
they aren't feeding and stomachs are tiny.
not sure if its the worms, virus, or lack of Kokanee. But even at 15,000,000 Kokanee you'd think they'd find a few to eat, plus small rainbows, squaw fish, whitefish, bull trout.....etc etc..

agree.
it sounds like it's the virus, not the lack of food.

[butcher]

You may be jumping to conclusions on that one.

[Brambles]

You may be jumping to conclusions on that one.


Pls elaborate!!

[butcher]

Well to assume that the IHN virus is causing your Gerrards to be skinny is an assumption. Not by you, by Duallie. More likely (IMO) it's the other way around. Parasites in the stomachs would definitely be a stressor on the Gerrards, causing them to not eat, causing their immune systems to weaken, making them susceptible to disease. Are there any visible signs like sores or lesions around the fins, eyes or gills?

[Brambles]

The fish otherwise look healthy, just skinny!

there are worms in their stomachs, and or abdominal cavity and or horrizontal body line under the skin!

opened a bull the other day thats stomach was jammed full of worms!!

opened a big gerrard the other day that stomach was shrunken and empty but there were white balls in the abdominal cavity, poked them and they were worms in them there balls!!!

[GoatGuy]

Don't working about fixing the technical problem - that is the job for professionals.

Make BC Hydro deal with and pay for this. The organization will try to sluff it off and/or hand it over to FLNRO to be dealt with.

The compensation program's job is to pay to fix this.

In the meantime the obvious choice would be to fish the Arrows but Hydro hasn't put any money into it because anglers haven't been making them.

So the message is: BC Hydro fix the problem in Kootenay and get on with fixing the problem in Arrows.

You anglers and hunters from the WK have been getting the short end of the stick from Hydro for decades.

[Moose Guide]

The fish otherwise look healthy, just skinny!

there are worms in their stomachs, and or abdominal cavity and or horrizontal body line under the skin!

opened a bull the other day thats stomach was jammed full of worms!!

opened a big gerrard the other day that stomach was shrunken and empty but there were white balls in the abdominal cavity, poked them and they were worms in them there balls!!!

Skinny ain't even close, I caught a bull trout that was about 30" long with a huge head but it only weighed 3 lbs. I've never seen such a pitiful fish before!