Early Elk

[Chuck]

I heard some gossip yesterday that they're planning an early (Sept) bull elk season in area 4 West Kootenays for 2007. That's all I've got - can't confirm it though. Anybody else heard anything?

[GoatGuy]

I heard some gossip yesterday that they're planning an early (Sept) bull elk season in area 4 West Kootenays for 2007. That's all I've got - can't confirm it though. Anybody else heard anything?

Haven't heard that - spoke with the regional a couple weeks ago. Doubling the LEH for next year in West Koots.

They (MOE) believe there's no conservation concern in opening things up in the west koots but the residents, or atleast those who showed up at the meeting, were against it, so it won't be happening this year.

I might have missed/forgot somethign though. :lol:

[hunter1947]

I have talked to a couple people that live there in the past few weeks and they have not herd anything about an early opening season there for elk ??????. hunter 1947.

[J_T]

The local bio for Reg 4 West Kootenay, proposed moving some of the LEH into GOS, however a local wildlife hunting group vettoed the concept. Go figure.

Beyond that I haven't heard anything.

JT

[Fisher-Dude]

Doubling the LEH will change odds for some of the better hunts from 110:1 to 55:1. So my next draw should be by the year 2050. If the population can support a GOS, I say give 'er, let's go elk huntin'. Those elk don't "belong" to the locals, they belong to us all. From the revenue side, I've got to think that a GOS side will generate more money than 500 - 600 LEH applications at $6 each.

[4blade]

myself i would rather have more limited entry hunts offered than have the elk slaughtered for a couple years some areas would get hammered ,the biologists cant cover the whole province and need the input from local clubs,i have applied for over 20 yrs now for 1 area and keep hunting nils but do not want it open,they did that to another area and it pretty hard to find a bull there now never mind a 6 pt

[J_T]

Seems to me that if you have to wait 20 years for a hunt you might give up hunting. In the West Kootenay, the LEH system supports a trophy hunt, not really hunter recruitment and hunter retention.

I guess it's a question of what we want.

I think that a sustainable GOS harvest can be met without overworking the biologists and CO's.

JT

[Rainwater]

JT, I would never give up Elk hunting if I can drive l hour and get into prime Elk country as is the case in the WK, the EK is right next door and offers plenty of Elk hunting. I know it sounds greedy but if you talk to people that have had that LEH and seen the quality of the Elk and the hunt itself they will tell you to leave it alone. I can attest to how well it is working as my boys have both had the draw but I haven't. But alas I still sit here in my own town not having an LEH for Sheep too but do I want the whole Province here at once looking for a Sheep with no enforcement or road restrictions, NO! Now if they looked at a late opening on the WK Elk (Sept 25th GOS) and a Bow Only from Sept 1-24 you've got my ear.

[4blade]

we definitely have more elk than we ever have but ,open season sustainability ,i do not think we have. i am not a trophy hunter ,but keep applying because it is close to home and would save me some travel costs if i ever drew the tag.i think a big benefit would be revamping the limited entry system.i think every club member feels some ownership of the local wildlife for the projects done throughout the year to sustain those animals ., other than just taking the resource.i,ll keep applying and if they do open it i,ll see you and every other elk hunter in bc here.it would be a good time to head east .

[kootenayelkslayer]

I think it would be a disastrous move to put an open season in place for bulls in the west Kootenay. I remember when the ministry changed 4-18 from the october season to the regular september season for one fall, it was a slaughter. I can only imagine what would happend if they opened the entire west kootenay up. The west koot elk have to be managed differently than the east kootenay elk. I'm all for some more LEH tags though!

[hunter1947]

Seems to me that if you have to wait 20 years for a hunt you might give up hunting. In the West Kootenay, the LEH system supports a trophy hunt, not really hunter recruitment and hunter retention.

I guess it's a question of what we want.

I think that a sustainable GOS harvest can be met without overworking the biologists and CO's.

JT Its not what we wont ,its what we have to do. hunter 1947.

[GoatGuy]

JT, I would never give up Elk hunting if I can drive l hour and get into prime Elk country as is the case in the WK, the EK is right next door and offers plenty of Elk hunting. I know it sounds greedy but if you talk to people that have had that LEH and seen the quality of the Elk and the hunt itself they will tell you to leave it alone. I can attest to how well it is working as my boys have both had the draw but I haven't. But alas I still sit here in my own town not having an LEH for Sheep too but do I want the whole Province here at once looking for a Sheep with no enforcement or road restrictions, NO! Now if they looked at a late opening on the WK Elk (Sept 25th GOS) and a Bow Only from Sept 1-24 you've got my ear.


This is unfortunate - what happened to supporting recruitment and retention?

[GoatGuy]

I think it would be a disastrous move to put an open season in place for bulls in the west Kootenay. I remember when the ministry changed 4-18 from the october season to the regular september season for one fall, it was a slaughter. I can only imagine what would happend if they opened the entire west kootenay up. The west koot elk have to be managed differently than the east kootenay elk. I'm all for some more LEH tags though!

If you look way back in the regs and harvest you'll see that with twice the hunters there was, way back a GOS for ANY ELK in the WK. You'll also find that they were taking 360 and 370 class bulls back then.

Obviously you cannot open one area for a season, it's all or naught and according to the new regional it can happen. If road closures have to happen so be it, but atleast you'll have an opportunity on an annual basis. At 100:1 or even 50:1 you can't reasonably except anyone you know to get drawn, nevermind yourself.

4-18 still produces close to the top if not the top bull with a GOS!

The MOE will be setting up a website for feedback from any resident who's willing to put their name and address at the bottom of the letter. Will post when it happens.

I believe this is one area that needs to be addressed and sacrifices from trophy hunters need to be made for the future of hunting.

[J_T]

Quite simply, LEH is killing hunting. Managing hunters not wildlife.

A GOS at the very least, allows someone who may live in the WK to hunt, at their convenience and others to access a hunt without adding hours to the drive.

Why should the East Kootenay have to manage all the harvestable elk?

I'm not saying a rifle season that is open to any bull, but I do believe that quality seasons can be found in the West Kootenay..

Sept 1 - 15 archery only - any bull
Sept 16 - 30 youth and first time hunter 3 pt or better
Oct 1 - 20(ish) 6 pt or better.

I'm not talking about the prime herd in the congested Shoreacres/Glade/Thrums/Mt Sentinel area, I'm talking about the West Kootenay

JT

[GoatGuy]

Oct 1 - 20(ish) 6 pt or better.


JT

I'd take this for a start.

[J_T]

GG,

You're right. 4-18 produces big bulls year after year. It is virtually the only open season in West Kootenay and takes a lot of hunting pressure. Relatively small geographically, lots of guys harvest, and the access isn't all that compromised. Yet, the quality and number of animals is sustained. Just think if 4-08, 07, 16, 17 and on and on had similar seasons.

JT

[hunter1947]

Quite simply, LEH is killing hunting. Managing hunters not wildlife.

A GOS at the very least, allows someone who may live in the WK to hunt, at their convenience and others to access a hunt without adding hours to the drive.

Why should the East Kootenay have to manage all the harvestable elk?

I'm not saying a rifle season that is open to any bull, but I do believe that quality seasons can be found in the West Kootenay..

Sept 1 - 15 archery only - any bull
Sept 16 - 30 youth and first time hunter 3 pt or better
Oct 1 - 20(ish) 6 pt or better.

I'm not talking about the prime herd in the congested Shoreacres/Glade/Thrums/Mt Sentinel area, I'm talking about the West Kootenay. This is my quote hunter 1947. My friend in cranbrook Dallas Hills did a big thing to try and get the elk back up in numbers in the east kootenays ,it did not work ,this was 8 years ago. I listened to him and read his two inch thick pack of papers he had done over the last two years ,i could go on forever about why the elk dwindled from 25000 strong to 7000 in the early 90ties ,but would take me forever without just talking about it openly rather then on the computer. To make a long story short it is all about management ,no proper management :mad: . just go do a research on the USA elk herds in Montana Colorado Wyo ETC ,they have huge numbers in different stats of there country. It is all because of there management and the one thing that got my attention is the hunting season for rifle in most places is after the main rut. Also no antler restrictions. They say in the second year 60% of the spikes don't survive for the next year. Anyway blame it on our management ,nothing else but them. :twisted: wayne.

JT I am typing in a few words because it said my message is to short ,just egnore this sentence, hunter1947.

[hunter1947]

I am typing in a few words because it said my message is to short ,just ignore this sentence, hunter1947. sorry for the mistake ,i guess i started the message on the wrong side of the quote key. :oops: hunter1947.

[bayou]

Have hunted both the open areas and the leh areas in the WK and would like to see it stay the way it is with the chance to have a quality hunt for a quality animal.
Maybe all the leh areas for elk on the coast should be changed to GOS then you could all stay and hunt there and give the kootneys a break.

[mcrae]

I hunt 4-18 every year for Elk its a tough hunt. My honey holes are all in behind vechicle restrictions and it doesn't bother me a bit. If the herds in the WK can support a general open season then I would support it. I don't buy into the "I am the local you go somewhere else attitude". I am a British Columbian and will hunt where I want in my own province. I think in a GOS it would be the locals that would hammer most of the elk anyways. If there was an open season in 4-16 I know where a huge bull hangs out:evil: . I watched and drooled last fall! The locals with the knowledge of the area and herds would harvest many more animals than the evil out of towners that have no right coming into my woods:smile:

[Rainwater]

I agree with Bayou, if we're gonna get rid of LEH, get rid of it all. Don't sacrifice one area for the sake of the "locals". I will guarantee every Elk hunter I know that has been putting in for the WK or anyone that has knowledge of that area will be somewhere there on opening day. I like JT's season suggestions for Bow, then Youth, then GOS however.

[hunter1947]

A few years back they the government brought in a top wildlife byolegus from Montana to help them recroup the elk in the kootenays ,they payed him big bucks for his services ,but they did not listen to him and it was a waist of out tax money down the drain ,first of all you can't have cattle mixing with elk on the habitat feeding areas, that was one thing that was brought to there attention. Then cleaned house in the wild life branch in cranbrook after elk heard fell years back. hunter 1947.

[Fisher-Dude]

Huh? The study in the US about immature bull recruitment being essential to herd health was the cornerstone of the 6 point season and the slashing of DiMarche's thousands of cow/calf permits. Elk populations in the RM Trench went back up from <16,000 to 23,000++ once this was instituted. Now we have so many elk there are generous seasons and rumours of opening things up even more. Seems to me that the elk are doing just fine with the cattle.

[hunter1947]

Huh? The study in the US about immature bull recruitment being essential to herd health was the cornerstone of the 6 point season and the slashing of DiMarche's thousands of cow/calf permits. Elk populations in the RM Trench went back up from <16,000 to 23,000++ once this was instituted. Now we have so many elk there are generous seasons and rumours of opening things up even more. Seems to me that the elk are doing just fine with the cattle. What area in the US were you looking at ?????. The information my friend got on recruitment for elk making it into there third year was from Montana. I would like to know why Bob Forbs got the axe up there if the elk were doing so good ????. Take a look up tee pee creek gold creek and sunrise creek and other places ,the cattle are eating up they the elks habitat . Why do they let the cattle bump in the drainage water up gold creek ,the water that they the people drink in cranbrook ???. I would like to know what area in the US you got you information from regarding the % of spike elk recruitment making it into the third year. hunter 1947.

[Rainwater]

Hey don't pick on the cows in Region 4 Elk guy they are crappin in streams all over BC. I counted 11,000 cow/calf LEHS back in he day. Maybe that was a problem for the population?

[GoatGuy]

I agree with Bayou, if we're gonna get rid of LEH, get rid of it all.

Per the island - conservation must be met first - it can't handle a GOS. No conservation issue in the WK - big difference.

First couple years will be busy, but most of that area will thin right out of hunters. The southern bit is relatively easy country but if you head north you'll find valleys without roads and bush that'll eat you alive. Most hunters won't even bother to try - the country's just way too tough.

[bayou]

I didnt say get rid of leh I said leave WK the way it is.

[kootenayelkslayer]

Quite simply, LEH is killing hunting. Managing hunters not wildlife.

A GOS at the very least, allows someone who may live in the WK to hunt, at their convenience and others to access a hunt without adding hours to the drive.

Why should the East Kootenay have to manage all the harvestable elk?

I'm not saying a rifle season that is open to any bull, but I do believe that quality seasons can be found in the West Kootenay..

Sept 1 - 15 archery only - any bull
Sept 16 - 30 youth and first time hunter 3 pt or better
Oct 1 - 20(ish) 6 pt or better.

I'm not talking about the prime herd in the congested Shoreacres/Glade/Thrums/Mt Sentinel area, I'm talking about the West Kootenay

JT

I definetly have to disagree. I feel this area should be managed for trophy quality elk, and the best way to do that is through the LEH. If we locals just want to hunt elk in general (not trophy elk), we just have to drive a couple hours from the west koots to the east koots. Ya sure it would be nice if they opened up a general season in the west kootenay so all us local boys could go out and shoot a few of those monsters that we see every year, even some non-locals would be able to track a few big ones down. But what happens after this goes on for a few seasons? I think we would be kissing our trophy elk goodbye. The elk in the W.Kootenays aren't nearly as stable and can't repopulate as well as in the East, so they shouldn't be managed the same way. I'm all for a few more LEH tags, but i think an open season would be a terrible idea.

[GoatGuy]

I definetly have to disagree. I feel this area should be managed for trophy quality elk, and the best way to do that is through the LEH. If we locals just want to hunt elk in general (not trophy elk), we just have to drive a couple hours from the west koots to the east koots. Ya sure it would be nice if they opened up a general season in the west kootenay so all us local boys could go out and shoot a few of those monsters that we see every year, even some non-locals would be able to track a few big ones down. But what happens after this goes on for a few seasons? I think we would be kissing our trophy elk goodbye. The elk in the W.Kootenays aren't nearly as stable and can't repopulate as well as in the East, so they shouldn't be managed the same way. I'm all for a few more LEH tags, but i think an open season would be a terrible idea.

Is there any way you'd consider a gos? How bout 1 week season, same as 4-18? Road closures? Anything??????

If you look up North you'll find bigger and better elk being harvested on a GOS.

If you look into past harvest stats in the WK you'll find they were taking the same size elk in an any elk season that went right through to november with twice the hunters we now have.

At 50:1 or 100:1 statistically you'll never get drawn during your hunting career. Just doesn't seem right, especially at a time when we need hunters hunting.

[kootenayelkslayer]

Is there any way you'd consider a gos? How bout 1 week season, same as 4-18? Road closures? Anything??????

If you look up North you'll find bigger and better elk being harvested on a GOS.

If you look into past harvest stats in the WK you'll find they were taking the same size elk in an any elk season that went right through to november with twice the hunters we now have.

At 50:1 or 100:1 statistically you'll never get drawn during your hunting career. Just doesn't seem right, especially at a time when we need hunters hunting.

Ya, I will admit that the odds are frustrating, so I would be happy to see more leh tags given out. But if they had to open up a general season, I'd like to see them try the late october season (as in 4-18), and see what kind of harvest statistics they come up with. Atleast at that time of the year, the elk aren't easy pickins, its after the peak of the rut and before they move to their wintering grounds (what little wintering grounds there are in the W.Kootenays). I still think that it would have a pretty big impact on the trophy elk herds, not that i'm saying I wouldn't participate in the open season:lol: .

[kootenayelkslayer]

Correction
* as in 4-18*

[Tinney]

GG are you referring to the GOS on 6pt bull elk in region 7A when you say "look up North you'll find bigger and better elk being harvested on a GOS."?

[Mark_S]

I live in the koots. In one of the better areas for Elk LEH.

I find it hard to believe they are talking about going to a GOS when they just cut some of the numbers of draws given out in some of the areas.

Instead of going to a GOS why not just give out more than a small handfull of draws in a season?

Sure odds of 100:1 suck. Maybe they should put out more than 10 draws for that subzone then.

I'd support the same season as in 4-18 for most of the the west koots. I don't really support a GOS sept 9-Oct 20. A very large portion of the West koots is private land and its an ongoing battle with land owners trying to stop them from gating roads (I'm talking private logging companies and woodlot owners). Get that extra traffic out there and Gates will start going up for sure. I've already lost access to some of my favorite places because of guys camping in mid september and leaving campfires going during the day with no one around only to have the private landowners come through and see the fire. Its too big of a risk for companies to face and so the gates go up.


That aside....I think it should be trophy managed. There are enough GOS areas in the province that anyone who really wants to get an Elk can get an Elk, its not like there is a shortage of open season areas.

[kootenayelkslayer]

I live in the koots. In one of the better areas for Elk LEH.

I find it hard to believe they are talking about going to a GOS when they just cut some of the numbers of draws given out in some of the areas.

Instead of going to a GOS why not just give out more than a small handfull of draws in a season?

Sure odds of 100:1 suck. Maybe they should put out more than 10 draws for that subzone then.

I'd support the same season as in 4-18 for most of the the west koots. I don't really support a GOS sept 9-Oct 20. A very large portion of the West koots is private land and its an ongoing battle with land owners trying to stop them from gating roads (I'm talking private logging companies and woodlot owners). Get that extra traffic out there and Gates will start going up for sure. I've already lost access to some of my favorite places because of guys camping in mid september and leaving campfires going during the day with no one around only to have the private landowners come through and see the fire. Its too big of a risk for companies to face and so the gates go up.


That aside....I think it should be trophy managed. There are enough GOS areas in the province that anyone who really wants to get an Elk can get an Elk, its not like there is a shortage of open season areas.

I'd have to agree with what you say for the most part.

[J_T]

I definetly have to disagree. I feel this area should be managed for trophy quality elk, and the best way to do that is through the LEH. If we locals just want to hunt elk in general (not trophy elk), we just have to drive a couple hours from the west koots to the east koots. Here's an accusatory statement. All of you who talk this way are trophy hunters. Which is not at all Socially acceptable, in a time when we are working hard to retain our social license. And it doesn't support hunter recruitment, which I thought was a common goal we all talk about on here.

I was bred, born and raised in Nelson, I know the country well. Help me understand why any of you think that while 4-18 can be a sustainable 6 pt GOS hunt, you think adding 4-08, 4-15, 16, 17, 30, 31 to that mix, under similar seasons, is NOT going to be sustainable.

LEH is killing hunting (does that really have to be spelled out?), hunter recruitment, hunter retention. How many guys in the West Kootenay hunt? How many have found something else to do because hunting on a Saturday morning involves a 3 hour drive? How many hunters are we losing through this LEH in the West Kootenay? (I'm not talking deer. There is a huge difference between how we feel about elk and how we feel about deer)

Sure, the first year a GOS is available, hunters from around the province, will think "hey, a given kill of a trophy bull". First dumb thing we did was promote the West Kootenay as a "trophy hunt". But when they show up and virtually all roads have a hunting closure, they will find they will have to walk or use a horse. It will thin out the hunters, which in turn will thin out the harvest.

I remember when in 97 (I think) when they closed the hunting of bulls in the East Kootenay and everyone went, not to the West Kootenays, but to 4-18 in the West Kootenay. It was pounded. Yet the population of elk and the population of big bulls continues today.f

You guys are going to have to do a lot better to convince me that a 2 week archery only season, followed by a 2 week youth and new hunter season followed by a GOS 6pt restriction on the majority of MU's in WK is not a good idea.

I can't believe this.:mad:

JT

[Mark_S]

I don't have much of a problem with an October hunt. Sure it would work and be sustainable. Your right if 4-18 can handle it so can the rest of the areas. I've lived my whole life a half hour from Nelson too.

Why then did they cut the number of draws for available for 2006 if they really are talking about going to a GOS hunt? (not all areas I don't have the LEH regs in front of me but I know at least one was cut)

So does anyone actually know if this is happening or are we just shooting the breeze here?

[GoatGuy]

I don't have much of a problem with an October hunt. Sure it would work and be sustainable. Your right if 4-18 can handle it so can the rest of the areas. I've lived my whole life a half hour from Nelson too.

Why then did they cut the number of draws for available for 2006 if they really are talking about going to a GOS hunt? (not all areas I don't have the LEH regs in front of me but I know at least one was cut)

So does anyone actually know if this is happening or are we just shooting the breeze here?
Old bio, now you have a new bio who actually does research! :lol: You'll see the LEH doubling this year.

He believes so far as conservation concern goes it isn't a problem - the local hunters didn't want it for now. Hopefully everyone can get on board in the upcoming year.

I certainly doesn't all have to happen at once - a one week season in Oct would be a start and then see where it goes from there.

[hunter1947]

Hears what i think ,once there is an LEH on any big game animal there always will be they will never take the region off LEH ,never seen it done ,have any of you ???? ,if so i guess i blinked and missed it :roll: . I think the guides are the winners in a area were they have an LEH season. This is what the government should do ,open the season for 6 point or better for 2 weeks ,make it mandatory that you take your animal to the wildlife branch and have it checked ,then after the season they can look at all and decide if the numbers taken hurt the population ,if so then go to plan B ,i think it would work out for an open season if they the management did there home work. hunter 1947.

[GoatGuy]

GG are you referring to the GOS on 6pt bull elk in region 7A when you say "look up North you'll find bigger and better elk being harvested on a GOS."?

No, I'd never talk about elk and 7A!!!

I was talking about 7B - - 397 came out of there last year and I know of two others that broke 370 nevermind everything in that 340-350 range.

[Tinney]

OK but look at the size of the area, the hunting pressure, and the elk population in 7B. Not even close to comparable to Region 4. The reason there is a GOS in 7B is because there is no shortage of big elk, and there is is (compartively speaking) zero hunting pressure. If they opened up (example) 4-18 to a GOS, can you imaging the hunting pressure? Everyone and his kid would be in there shooting a honker of a bull. Who would drive to 7B for a big elk in a GOS when you can crank a Booner in region 4 under a GOS?

[Fisher-Dude]

OK but look at the size of the area, the hunting pressure, and the elk population in 7B. Not even close to comparable to Region 4. The reason there is a GOS in 7B is because there is no shortage of big elk, and there is is (compartively speaking) zero hunting pressure. If they opened up (example) 4-18 to a GOS, can you imaging the hunting pressure? Everyone and his kid would be in there shooting a honker of a bull. Who would drive to 7B for a big elk in a GOS when you can crank a Booner in region 4 under a GOS?

4-18 is open for a GOS. Has been for years.

[GoatGuy]

OK but look at the size of the area, the hunting pressure, and the elk population in 7B. Not even close to comparable to Region 4. The reason there is a GOS in 7B is because there is no shortage of big elk, and there is is (compartively speaking) zero hunting pressure. If they opened up (example) 4-18 to a GOS, can you imaging the hunting pressure? Everyone and his kid would be in there shooting a honker of a bull. Who would drive to 7B for a big elk in a GOS when you can crank a Booner in region 4 under a GOS?

Nobody said a 2 month season. If you look back you'll also find there was an GOS season in the WK for ANY ELK that went to November (I believe) before - when we had twice as many hunters. They were also taken whopper bulls! You'll also find the majority of the WK inaccessible particularly in the north. You'll find valleys with no trails, major road closures and on and on. Road closures can also be instituted if access is a major concern.

If you've hunted the WK you'll also find that north country is some of the wetest, tangled up country around. It's awful hiking; the guys I hunt with over there wear cork boots all hunting season long. Last November that country was just awful - waist deep snow, crusty, tangled up country, trees are a couple feet apart and it's so steep you can't even wear snowshoes. 1 step up 4 steps back.

There will probably be an influx during the first couple of years but once most hunters figure out there are no roads and the valleys are straight up and down they'll head elsewhere.

4-18 has been GOS for ages and ages and, as mentioned several times in this thread has been producing some of the biggest bulls year after year in the WK.

As far as 7B goes you'll find all kinds of pressure in the south country. 7B is also looking at major regulatory reform because of an over-abundance of elk.

I also stated they've been taking bigger bulls out of 7B than they have in 4.


On top of all this you can look over at 8-15 and see they were on LEH for ages. Region 8 as a whole and those who represent 8-15 believe that hunter numbers are critical to the future of hunting and, as a result they have decided to support a GOS. Now guess where the folks from Castlegar will go? Remember, this isn't about trophy hunters, who make up 1%, it's about the future of hunting.

You can look at the Princeton herd which is a couple hours from the lower mainland and all the pressure it's getting and you'll still find the locals are supporting the future of hunting.

[hunter1947]

7b region 7-49 ,7-50 has the largest elk population in BC, hunter 1947.

[4blade]

it,s not all about the future of hunting unless you,re including the fact that there will be animals to hunt.they must come first no matter who wants to hunt where when and how?if an area can support GOS with proper data not just hunters wishes than i would also agree ,but i would first like to see more leh,not sure if all tags are being filled now,and if we get any more road closures it,ll make it tough too hunt anything.

[GoatGuy]

it,s not all about the future of hunting unless you,re including the fact that there will be animals to hunt.they must come first no matter who wants to hunt where when and how?if an area can support GOS with proper data not just hunters wishes than i would also agree ,but i would first like to see more leh,not sure if all tags are being filled now,and if we get any more road closures it,ll make it tough too hunt anything.

Nice to hear you agree. The new regional is a great guy and a heck of a researcher - he's in the field all the time. His words are, "there's no conservation concern."

:smile: