Mound rd sheep

[gordied2006]

was wunderin what happened to all the sheep at mound road. last huntseason 2012 was nearly 100 around there ,, 2013 only seen around 25.. no lambs?

[boxhitch]

Mound Road near Clinton ? The road past the ranch that has all the domestic sheep ? The ranch where wilds have been witnessed to be on the same field as the domestics ?

[spear]

nuff siad i guess there boxhitch.

Just watched a hunt for montana bighorns, a few bruisers video'd with the cough, shame

[BlacktailStalker]

Saw over 30 last winter and no rams were with them... must be there.

[Fosey]

There was no rams for the LEH hunt heard they were down towards Scotty Creek more.

[BiG Boar]

Sheep are in the field on the left top corner. Domestic herd across the road sheep (on the right), with nothing stopping the wilds from jumping in with them.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn5/bigbore14/412D6600-AF33-4C40-99B3-CAEA2E93ECBB_zpsidfjf2kb.jpg (http://s300.photobucket.com/user/bigbore14/media/412D6600-AF33-4C40-99B3-CAEA2E93ECBB_zpsidfjf2kb.jpg.html)

Here are some rams in that field.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn5/bigbore14/2D0C5405-6457-4B91-8813-7ED5CBF46D08_zpsrjcdeics.jpg (http://s300.photobucket.com/user/bigbore14/media/2D0C5405-6457-4B91-8813-7ED5CBF46D08_zpsrjcdeics.jpg.html)

That being said, I personally counted 30 sheep this winter, in a few different herds along the road, over a weekend.

[bigredchev]

was there last year and saw around 20 of the healthiest, tastiest looking sobs ever. beauty rams too, but this year we went through there a handful of times and not a sighting.

[russm]

My dad talked to a CO in the area who said that a bunch of them died between last season and this season, something to do with the domestic sheep, we'd seen a lot of them up there during the 2012 season and nothing for the 2913 season.

[MtnBoy]

These sheep are doomed. Unfortunately there isn't proper double fencing so these sheep will be (are infected). Furthermore, these sheep can/do move (with much ease) into the Marbles and onto the Fraser...this is such a huge issue that is being swept under the rug. I think the landowner should be accountable for killing those wild sheep with his domestic herd.

[boxhitch]

Here is a good wrap of the problem

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/Local+Shows/British+Columbia/ID/2424981315/

[huntersdad]

Hey
i hunted around Clinton for 10 days in nov. Twice I travelled the mound rd. and saw 23 sheep. 3 immature rams , ewes and NO lambs. Domestic sheep within 200yrds of the wilds and only a barb wire fence to stop contact. During my visit to chilco's place I left via Farwell canyon rd. saw 32 sheep. 7 mature rams, lots of ewes and lambs! No domestics to be seen. Coincidence?

I dont know all the rules or laws about farming sheep but if he's allowed to earn a living off his land legally and ethically,that's fine by me.
now if the Biologist knew there could be a problem, why the heck wasn't something done to protect the sheep? Isn't that what the scientific specialist is suppose to act on. If this was a eagle nest tree it would have been saved from cutting. If it was a coho rearing channel it would have been saved. Maybe those examples are just cheaper to save!

sorry about the rant but opportunities to hunt this animal for my family has been reduced to NIL again
Huntersdad

[BiG Boar]

Obviously farmer wants to make his living. But if it's killing wild herds something has got to be done. Any action being taken by the wild sheep society or the BC government?

[1/2 slam]

Obviously farmer wants to make his living. But if it's killing wild herds something has got to be done. Any action being taken by the wild sheep society or the BC government?

No if about it. It is killing wild sheep.

[325]

Personally, I think it should be illegal to ranch sheep w/o double fencing in areas where there is a possibility of contact with wild sheep. The risk of disease transmission between wild and domestic sheep is huge and is probably the single biggest threat to wild sheep.

[GoatGuy]

Domestic sheep should not occur near wild sheep PERIOD.

That will only occur with legislation.

Anything between now and legislation is a giant black hole.

[BiG Boar]

What has to happen to get something legislated? Was there any evidence of diseases spread from the domestic sheep in the biopsy?

[GoatGuy]

What has to happen to get something legislated? Was there any evidence of diseases spread from the domestic sheep in the biopsy?

No one's made a concerted effort to legislate.

The current approach has been to subsidize farmers through double fencing. Unfortunately it is costly, fragments and alienates habitat. The externality encourages and promotes the proliferation of domestic sheep farming. "Hey, my neighbour got his fence paid for, I should get some sheep and get mine paid for".

Yes, we have had several die-offs in BC due to wild-domestic interaction.

The critical path is well-defined. Another issue where there's no such thing as half pregnant.

[325]

Domestic sheep should not occur near wild sheep PERIOD.

That will only occur with legislation.

Anything between now and legislation is a giant black hole.

I agree. Really, is there that much money in raising domestic sheep anyway? So many parts of our country (and even province), do not have wild sheep populations, and domestic sheep can safely be ranged. Why must we tolerate domestic sheep in areas where wild sheep occur? I think it should be illegal.

[GoatGuy]

I agree. Really, is there that much money in raising domestic sheep anyway? So many parts of our country (and even province), do not have wild sheep populations, and domestic sheep can safely be ranged. Why must we tolerate domestic sheep in areas where wild sheep occur? I think it should be illegal.

Hahaha, the money is in the free fence. We've had farmers who got sheep on their property without having any of it fenced at all, just looking for a handout.

We don't have to tolerate any of this. Solution is easy, getting there seems to a challenge.

[bruin]

This is a pretty common theme across southern BC and undoubtedly the greatest threat to our herds at the moment. Its a complex issue with multiple user groups and private land owners with domestic flocks of all sizes. It takes time and a case by case basis does not truly fix the problem. It takes one hobby farmer with one sheep to destroy a herd of bighorns, and they can come out of nowhere like GG said. In some cases the farmers are innocent and have no idea what their effect could be.
In my opinion there are two important things to push for.
The first and most important is to increase funding for wildlife management. They are so mired in work that they can't truly deal with these issues let alone the hundreds of others.
Second is we should be pushing for bylaw changes in areas of risk that prevent landowners from grazing sheep.
This is another instance of the need for involvement. Write your MLA's and those in the risk areas, email the minister, come to the WSSBC Convention in March, get informed about what's going on. Consultant Jeremy Ayott will be giving an information update at the WSSBC Convention on the current status of Wild/Domestic Separation in BC.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?102508-Wild-Sheep-Society-of-BC-Convention-2014&highlight=wild+sheep
The more voices the better.

[GoatGuy]

This is a pretty common theme across southern BC and undoubtedly the greatest threat to our herds at the moment. Its a complex issue with multiple user groups and private land owners with domestic flocks of all sizes. It takes time and a case by case basis does not truly fix the problem. It takes one hobby farmer with one sheep to destroy a herd of bighorns, and they can come out of nowhere like GG said. In some cases the farmers are innocent and have no idea what their effect could be.
In my opinion there are two important things to push for.
The first and most important is to increase funding for wildlife management. They are so mired in work that they can't truly deal with these issues let alone the hundreds of others.
Second is we should be pushing for bylaw changes in areas of risk that prevent landowners from grazing sheep.
This is another instance of the need for involvement. Write your MLA's and those in the risk areas, email the minister, come to the WSSBC Convention in March, get informed about what's going on. The more voices the better.

You got 'er!!!! Need a concerted effort.

[boxhitch]

To answer a few questions
The situation at Mound Creek has been known about since last year when the domestics first arrived. The MONRO has been in contact on several occasions as well as reps from the Wild Sheep Society of BC.
No one can just stride in and start building defences without careful negotiation , and most important ......money.
The rancher has been amicable but defensive of his chosen money stream.

Parties involved at this point are reluctant to spend big dollars on a separation fencing project as the proverbial horse may already be out of the barn door.
The bighorn die-off has occurred , inventory flights to find more bighorns has failed to turn up any more live or dead. It took some time to find a suitable carcass to take sample from for testing for disease , but samples are being tested at this time to confirm whether or not the contact with domestic sheep has been the cause.

The fear now of course is that the disease will spread among the bighorns to other populations from contact during the breeding season when more travel occurs. The Chasm herd is relatively isolated but any spread to the Marble Fraser area could turn into a large scale episode .

Wild Sheep Society of BC has been active in lobbying Gov't for some kind of legislation to help protect wild sheep for several years now , and have been involved in meeting with the Mins. of Ag and Environment with in the last couple of months even. but nothing has been formulated yet. Everyone recognizes the importance of protecting wildlife , but also of protecting producers in their ventures to make a living.
It may sound like a simple answer to just throw up a double fence to keep a separeation between the wilds and the domestics , but sheep grazing takes in huge tracts of land . Solutions are tough while respecting the sensitivities of the producer and/or landowner.

[Cordillera]

To answer a few questions
The situation at Mound Creek has been known about since last year when the domestics first arrived. The MONRO has been in contact on several occasions as well as reps from the Wild Sheep Society of BC.
No one can just stride in and start building defences without careful negotiation , and most important ......money.
The rancher has been amicable but defensive of his chosen money stream.

Parties involved at this point are reluctant to spend big dollars on a separation fencing project as the proverbial horse may already be out of the barn door.
The bighorn die-off has occurred , inventory flights to find more bighorns has failed to turn up any more live or dead. It took some time to find a suitable carcass to take sample from for testing for disease , but samples are being tested at this time to confirm whether or not the contact with domestic sheep has been the cause.

The fear now of course is that the disease will spread among the bighorns to other populations from contact during the breeding season when more travel occurs. The Chasm herd is relatively isolated but any spread to the Marble Fraser area could turn into a large scale episode .

Wild Sheep Society of BC has been active in lobbying Gov't for some kind of legislation to help protect wild sheep for several years now , and have been involved in meeting with the Mins. of Ag and Environment with in the last couple of months even. but nothing has been formulated yet. Everyone recognizes the importance of protecting wildlife , but also of protecting producers in their ventures to make a living.
It may sound like a simple answer to just throw up a double fence to keep a separeation between the wilds and the domestics , but sheep grazing takes in huge tracts of land . Solutions are tough while respecting the sensitivities of the producer and/or landowner.

In the north there are no domestic sheep now and the ministry is trying to get regulation to prevent any sheep being brought into sheep country (either for veg control or agriculture). The minister of agriculture needs to hear how important this issue is. Money for sheep separation programs in the south would help too.

[MtnBoy]

I was at mound rd. and the bio was there taking samples last year. What they say publicly and privately seem to be two different things.

I was told by a Clinton resident that drives truck on the highway that on numerous occasions there are small herds of rams that cross the highway heading toward the marble range. Also, look online at the study that showed the time it took for a ewe to go from the marble range down to the Fraser river breaks. It was like an hour!

[boxhitch]

Anyone that is a fan of wild sheep can help out with this .
While you are out and about watching and taking pictures , spend some extra time watching closely for clues as to the general health of the critters. Too often die-offs occur quietly with no witness , making diagnosis impossible.
Watch for things like lethargy , weakness , diarrhea , coughing , anything else unusual.
Especially important is finding the carcass of a dead sheep that is unexplainable , not from a vehicle incident or predation. These can be sampled , but it has to be done early.

Lamb recruitment has been a monitoring project for the last couple of years along the Fraser , numbers of lambs surviving their first year are low.
Any anecdotal info on early lamb numbers and then late summer numbers will be looked at. Nothing specific has been identified to the loss of lambs , but more info is needed .

[BlacktailStalker]

So was no ram shot on resident leh again in 2013 ?

[bc traper]

A local guy from Clinton had the draw Knows the area and hunted hard Saw nothing

[Bittercreek]

aparently tests came back posative but didnt say if it was from domestic or exautics

[Tuffcity]

Start writing, calling, emailing not only the environment minister but the agriculture minister as well. This is over lapping territory and the "Right to Farm Act" seems to supersede wild life management. Tweaking that Act might be a start. As someone mentioned, legislation is likely more important than just blindly throwing money.

Get involved!

RC

[JoeJoe]

I think the landowner should be accountable for killing those wild sheep with his domestic herd.

It's an unfortunate situation but if you had the flu and an old couple came to visit and got the flu .. maybe one dies of complications, is it your fault?

[Tuffcity]

It's an unfortunate situation but if you had the flu and an old couple came to visit and got the flu .. maybe one dies of complications, is it your fault?

Using the above as an example... if you knew that the flu you had could also infect the old couples grandchildren and it would kill most of them off, wouldn't you take steps to prevent contact with the old couple?

Infection from domestics doesn't just knock off the odd sheep, it infects the lambs and causes a massive amount of (if not total) mortality. And once its in the wild population the cycle tends to perpetuate.

RC

[Bittercreek]

someone said the collard ram was at hat creek a month ago so who knows where hes at now ?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

It's an unfortunate situation but if you had the flu and an old couple came to visit and got the flu .. maybe one dies of complications, is it your fault?


You could look at it that way...or you could look at it like someone knowing they had aids and had unprotected sex. They have charged people for doing the latter.


Legislation is the only route. Letnick has just been appointed as Minister of Agriculture. Combine him with Minister Thomson and this is probably "our" best chance to finally get things changed.

SSS